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Salary Cap good or bad for baseball? What is going on with Theo Epstein FSG and Craig Breslow/FO
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00:00uh this boston globe article a bit of a hit piece i guess one could call it uh dropped yesterday
00:07on craig breslow and there were some some positive things about brez that were uh in the the brez
00:14bot that were in the article i think they alluded to the fact that uh he is uh oftentimes has
00:21been
00:22lately apparently gifting others with baseball pants good morning to try to win their favor
00:27um one mine jones said i was listening to jones and keith yesterday driving golf course to golf
00:33course uh and they suggested that there are only two people at the radio station that remain
00:40in craig breslow's corner you being one of them shine and jones being the other is that accurate
00:46i stand with the brez bot great you do because of the pants or because of the other things yeah
00:50my guy my guy is uh really generous he's a really good guy uh i ride or die with with
00:55my people all
00:56right but um one of the things that came up in this piece uh in the globe is that uh
01:02there are
01:03questions about whether or not theo epstein has turned on craig breslow and of course uh breslow
01:09worked with theo a bit of a like theo's a bit of a mentor to him he was responsible for
01:15craig being
01:16considered for for the job as the chief baseball officer here so uh and curtis brought up last week
01:21we played a little bit of audio from this podcast that theo was on which was complimentary of breslow
01:28right curtis can you remind me in my old age that audio was somewhat complimentary yes he's you
01:33referred to him as brez he complimented him for the manner in which the organization has solved the
01:38pitching woes and said that they're working hard on fixing the offense something to that effect okay
01:41so but then uh i saw uh another piece of that podcast in which theo talks about analytics and the
01:51nerds and the balance of those who may know something about baseball that's not related to
01:59data and i thought it was interesting so here is what theo said on that podcast i think it's it's
02:06probably an important time in the game to to touch on that because we're right now we're a little bit
02:11out of balance you know there's an equilibrium in the game where um yet data is important analytics
02:18important technology is important and you can use those tools to help you make good predictions about
02:24how players are going to perform in the future um but if it's done at at the exclusion of the
02:31human
02:31element and you know the humanism essentially human beings getting to know other people understanding
02:38what makes them tick developing a connection with them understanding them better that way and putting
02:43them in a position to succeed then it's not worth it and and you can you can you can fall
02:47out of
02:48balance and and so you know in some circles um they are you know scouting and um invest in and
02:57and
02:57and seeing beyond the stats sheet seeing beyond the predictive model and understanding you know what
03:03really makes a person tick as a as a human as a teammate uh and as a player is becoming
03:09a bit of
03:09a lost art oh my thank you for saying it theo epstein thank you so it's not curtis i knew
03:18you would love
03:19that audio it's not all about the analytics there's a human element to it and quite frankly craig
03:27breslow decided a couple weeks ago three weeks ago whatever it is now to get rid of the human element
03:33who knew an awful lot about baseball maybe didn't rely when making every single decision on the analytics
03:41and what the the the numbers tell you about the future of a player so so i think that's a
03:47bit of a
03:48a part of where why theo has turned on craig breslow a little bit and we have to go back
03:54to the pursuit
03:55of the new gm after they fired heim bloom for doing exactly what they hired heim bloom to do
04:01and that is that they had to interview 10 people before they found someone to accept the job
04:06and that's not hyperbole so maybe it's that the people see the organization and they're saying we're
04:12going to have six scouts not 14 and you can't even fly to see players and that's part of the
04:18reason
04:18this job that used to be one of the most desired in all of sports is something that nobody that's
04:22talented wants to actually have well but they didn't make that change until craig breslow was
04:27there he did the audit remember he executed that audit after he had been hired now you can say that
04:33was on john henry's orders right so they said they brought him in to do that i also think that
04:38there's
04:39a side to this that theo's kind of dancing around because it's his friend where he's like you have to
04:44be able to lead and relate to people and it doesn't seem like craig breslow does a great job with
04:50that
04:50he can't relate to people that was the other part he's as you said at the beginning of the show
04:54he needs an english to english translator right because people listen to him and they go what
04:59the hell is he talking about it's more like no offense nerd to human translator is what he needs
05:04right like he's sitting there going does not compute i can help which is weird you're not the
05:11one what do you mean i i feel like i have a decent human element and i'm also kind of
05:15a big nerd
05:17okay and we already have a good uh you know solid foundation in our friendship so you're offering
05:22yourself up as a go-between yeah absolutely i'd be happy to okay so a res res bot would share
05:28the
05:28data with you yep as it is spit out of the uh computer and then you would then go translate
05:34to
05:34the baseball people yeah i'd go chat with trace me and trace would just sit down have a good have
05:39a
05:39yap over like this is like a level three charizard this guy is the equivalent of the hologram
05:46edition which is which is so picture shy i'm doing a trust fall with breslow at outward bound like on
05:52a retreat definitely i'd never let him fall which is so interesting to me greg is because
05:59and i and i don't get it and i and maybe we can ask him when when we talk to
06:05him
06:06you're a former player so i get you you he was a pitcher but that shouldn't matter though it doesn't
06:12matter pitches still have uh if you ask pedro martinez was a pitcher or you asked john lackey
06:18or josh beckett or anybody who pitched they'll probably tell you there are times that i have to
06:24use my gut when deciding on where i want to try to put a pitch what pitch i want to
06:29go to like
06:30when you play the game there's an element of like all right i've seen it from that view
06:35so sometimes i have to push out these analytics and go with how my gut or even relating to people
06:43like you're in a clubhouse with other guys like how are you not knowing how to relate to guys that
06:50play baseball do you think theo was on board with firing alex cora because i don't i do it's a
06:56great
06:56question i do he was i mean yes i do i i cannot envision that he would have been again
07:04if he was
07:05really strongly against that i think john henry listens to theo epstein more than he listens to
07:09breslow right and if john henry didn't want to fire alex cora alex cora would still be here
07:15so it was a it was a relationship issue between cora and breslow and the organization is not going
07:22to change the way it approaches contracts and young players so cora left so you could substitute
07:27anybody for breslow cora didn't want to manage that kind of team it's very interesting to finally hear
07:32from theo all of a sudden now about all these vagaries about being human and not being overly
07:41relying on analytics after you blow out two-thirds of the staff like i think he's kind of telling you
07:48where he feels like the chip's scattered and he doesn't like it yeah but didn't he have that uh
07:53carmine didn't they have a thing like that when he was the gm here it's not like you can't use
07:57analytics i think what he's saying and he says in there it's about it's about the balance of making
08:02sure that you still have the human element and that he feels like in some circles that's been
08:07lost so he so theo is a consultant right for the red sox well he also has an equity no
08:12no but i'm
08:13just saying for the the the baseball organization so let me get this right mango you believe theo
08:22doesn't like this i think theo brought breslow in because he said this is my friend and he's going
08:29to be good at this and he's a smart guy and he's a baseball guy right and over the last
08:33year or so
08:34this is just my opinion he he has not agreed with the way that he's run the operation so i
08:40would have
08:40over the last so i would ask you this if theo has that much influence and he doesn't like it
08:46can he
08:47just say to john henry hey john it's not a good move to fire all these guys that craig wants
08:53you to
08:53fight of course is it possible that john henry would would go against theo's recommendation uh
08:59have the two ever disagreed in the past no but i'm just saying usually a consultant it comes in
09:05and that person that they're consulting like john henry yeah but his words not bible no but if you
09:10believe that much in that man you would be like okay great craig we're not gonna go all out here
09:15we might remove alex core would theo be saying this if he made a recommendation and the rest of
09:22organization was like thanks for the input and still did what they wanted no but i think and
09:27then theo's saying this is not working but to curtis's point which i agree with curtis i think theo
09:33was like you're probably uh right craig it's probably time to move on from these guys hey john you should
09:38fire them i think theo epstein hired craig breslow theo epstein is many things he does not like to be
09:44wrong he doesn't like to lose now that the all the eyes are on breslow because his bulletproof vest is
09:50no longer here theo is trying to create a sense of urgency with the organization to make changes so
09:55that he doesn't look like an idiot for bringing in breslow thank god somebody has finally said it
10:00someone of note has finally said it he almost said investing there curtis and then he stopped himself
10:05when it comes to the red sox well he knows his boss but it is isn't it have you been
10:11underwhelmed when
10:12we were we were at uh the snow show at loon when it was announced a couple years ago that
10:17he was
10:17joining the fenway sports group yeah and he has basically been invisible publicly i mean you know
10:24when you read the globe piece or or others i mean it it does appear that he's in all these
10:30meetings
10:31and he's weighing in on things but you're right he's reluctant to be i i think probably because as you
10:39said earlier he's waiting to be the commissioner of baseball whenever rob manford uh retires but i
10:45he'll be part of the cleanup crew after the lockout and i said to sam kennedy when ken and i
10:53were at the
10:53fenway winter weekend i said to him about theo being the commissioner and he was giddy he's like
10:59keep saying that keep saying that that would be a great great role for him because i presume this
11:05group has a very good relationship with him and it'd be good if he was the commissioner you are still
11:08on
11:09lockout being a full-blown reality correct oh totally okay i mean i bryce harper spoke the other
11:17day and he said that we have momentum and all this but i mean there's no way that the players
11:23as far as i can tell that major league baseball players will accept a salary cap in any capacity
11:29right and i think they'll meet in the middle where it'd be there'll be length of what the max or
11:35long-term contract will be i think players will potentially agree to that um rather than i think
11:42a lot of players jones and keep were talking about this last week i think a lot of players
11:48not the big money guys but the the rest of them will be open to the fact that the ceiling
11:54that these
11:55teams have to spend is going up the floor the floor sorry the floor the ceiling's going down
12:02floor going up so that means that in general guys will make teams will have to spend right and guys
12:08will make more money i think they've been able to use that in the nfl because there are so many
12:12more
12:12players and the vast majority of the nfl players are undrafted free agents or people that make almost
12:18no money so what they did in the last cba is they doubled the minimum right so they got all
12:23the people
12:23that were not at the top of the food chain to agree to the new deal and it was certified
12:28whereas in the
12:29baseball there is this sort of caste system that's been in existence for a very long time
12:34and the power is fully with the highest paid guys there is an intimidation there is very little power
12:41that is given to the people coming up and it's kind of understood and that's why i think you're going
12:45to see more deals like the deal that what's it uh kyle tucker the is that the dodger guy who
12:52signed
12:52like a four-year 270 million dollar deal something along those lines i think where you're going to
12:59see what i think what owners would rather is give shell out deals for six maybe even eight years
13:08versus you keep saying that but that has really has no uh sway when it comes to the salary cap
13:16like
13:16you're going to be limited on what you can spend no no no i understand that but this is the
13:20term the
13:20length of the deal really will not no but this is the way that the players will agree to say
13:27all
13:27right we don't want a salary cap and the owners will go okay if we're no salary cap well we're
13:33no
13:33we no longer want to give out 10 12 15 year contracts i think that is where they're going to
13:39meet in the
13:40middle because they could say like you know take a bookie bets for example signs a 12 year 350 million
13:47dollar deal yeah the first four maybe five years is good now you're on the hook for the next seven
13:54years and he's a shell of himself he's not the same but you're still paying this guy 35 40 million
14:00dollars a year the biggest joke is the deferred money that's got to stop right and that would show
14:05hey deal right but that would also stop if you didn't have 10 12 15 year i agree contracts and
14:11i think
14:11that might be what the owners will say all right we want a salary cap so they're starting at the
14:18highest level knowing that the players are not going to agree to that to curtis's point
14:22then it's like okay all right if we don't give you a salary cap here's where we want to meet
14:27in the
14:27middle the nhl did it with the eight-year deal max that now teams can give out players where you
14:33know
14:33what was deep pietro got a 15 year deal where they're saying don't tell that to milbury yeah the
14:39nba does it you know the nba used to be like kind of major league baseball they so now they're
14:44going
14:44all right if we're giving a guy a six or even an eight-year deal he if we get him
14:50for five six years
14:52all right now we're only on the hook for two years and the floor is what like 180 million curtis
14:56is that
14:57what it is uh something like that and the ceiling is 245 and the owner's proposal some somewhere the
15:04ceiling is the roof as michael jordan wants it uh but do you think that where do you think the
15:09fan
15:10base will be they should want a salary cap if you're a red socks fan what you should want a
15:15salary cap
15:16absolutely why why because your ownership doesn't spend anyway well that's not a good reason well
15:22that's the reality of where you're looking at if nobody else is able to spend through the nose
15:28then it's a more even playing field for you like you got to be you got to look in the
15:32mirror and say
15:33are we really ever going to spend like the dodgers or the yankees again right but you watch games you
15:37see the twins there's 15 people in the stands and the advantage you have of 35 000 people paying at
15:44the top of the market for tickets is all wasted money why would i spend a dollar more at fenway
15:50if
15:51they're just going to be like they're the same mid-market team in minnesota because that's not what
15:55is going to change that there's not no they'll still show up what's going to change the best case
15:59scenario for you is that they're if if things continue this way tell me if you think that
16:05they're going to go back to spending the way that they did 15 years ago but if you continue this
16:10way
16:10your best case scenario is to be like the bruins where all of a sudden you can't bitch about like
16:15oh they're not spending through the nose like everybody else because there's a hard cap and
16:19everybody can only spend that i think the odds that the fenway sports groups sell the red socks if
16:24there is a salary cap instituted are zero whereas do you think they're going to sell them anyway no
16:29there's a better chance he was just saying it's a cash cow for why would you sell something that is
16:34so valuable and you don't have to spend money on to keep people coming to fenway we sold 1037 for
16:39megabucks okay and greg you made this point right now right now you're what eight nine games on the
16:44500 you said there's a chance there could be 15 games on the 500 by the trade deadline people will
16:50still show up to fenway it'll still be packed out so to mego's point which i agree with is if
16:56you have
16:56a salary cap hey guess what the yankees or the dodges can no longer spend you know in a billion
17:04dollars 900 million dollars right and you don't have to spend maybe what they're spending and you're
17:11still gonna how has it helped the bruins they've won one cup the salary cap's been instituted yeah and
17:17what do you not hear about anymore like the cheap the the way that people talk about the jacobs is
17:21now it's just like oh i hate that they're cramming more seats into td garden to sell more right you
17:26can't complain about them not they usually spend to the cap that's what i'm saying you're making my
17:31point you're you're making my point the ownership no longer they're not competitive they're not
17:35competitive with other teams and spending like we all agree about that right right over the last 20
17:39years they absolutely are oh we're not talking about the last even now they're the top third let's talk
17:44about the last eight years let's talk about since the last world series championship they've been
17:49top 10 easily in spending you're you're the one who's been saying that they're 12th well this year
17:54they're 12th for the last eight years they're absolutely top five that john henry is not interested
17:59in spending with the dodgers or yankees or mets i'll throw those teams into it even if they're not
18:04totally successful like i don't understand you have been on this radio station more than anybody else
18:09saying that they are not spending in a way that would suggest that they're serious about getting
18:15back to the world series every year so if you put yourself in a situation i don't think it's good
18:21for
18:21the players it's probably not good for the game overall but if you're a red sox fan it levels the
18:27playing field because you already have an ownership group who has shown that they recently are not
18:32interested in spending with the teams that go after the big contracts so i will say this as clearly as
18:38i
18:38can i refuse to reward this ownership group for their recent decision to change how they spend
18:44while still charging you're just going to be caught as a hostage for however much longer they decide to
18:49own it if i have wi-fi i'll be fine so over the past so over the past four years
18:54since 2022 they've
18:55been outside of the top 10 but they've been between 12 11 one year i believe they were at 10
19:03and the
19:03other year they were at 18 when it came to payroll but this is rich from wiki who said they've
19:09never
19:09been out of the top 10 all of a sudden they haven't been in the top 10 have you not
19:12listened you you
19:14don't even listen i know you don't listen because you don't even listen to yourself to megal's point
19:18i have said for the past four or five years this team has changed their financial philosophy
19:23and they have been a team that you argued and said they were top 10 just this year i said
19:28this year
19:28but then you guys all proved me wrong to the to chris mason's point of them being 12 and the
19:35and
19:35please don't bring him into this no so deeply about my marriage and i've said this over the past four
19:41or
19:41five years that they have changed their philosophy they used to be a team that would be in the top
19:45five
19:45but now they're a team that generally hovers between eight and 13 of when it comes to payroll
19:51and to megal's point if you have a uh a salary cap now you don't look so bad when you're
19:58not spending
19:59as much as the yankees because you're not that far behind them whereas if there's no salary cap
20:05which john henry doesn't want and i think uh the majority of major league baseball owners
20:11would want a salary cap because they know it would level the playing field well obviously
20:18the owners want it like you know like take the race their payroll is 87 million dollars right
20:23they're gonna have to bump it up to 150 million which also will probably hurt them because that's
20:29the way that they've been doing business right so putting the floor in place you know i again from
20:35the player perspective i totally understand why they hate this you want to get as much money as you can
20:39but they should be going but the owners would go okay where the majority going if we have to put
20:45a
20:45flooring that's fine as long as we don't have to you have the as long as we don't have to
20:51say
20:52well jesus we got to cut a giant check because to alex bregman for 45 million a year right or
20:57whatever
20:58give us the salary cap because that works better for the owners and the teams in the sense for a
21:04fan base
21:04to be more competitive it sucks to think this way it really does but tell me what makes you think
21:10that
21:10they're gonna change their minds or change the way that they're approaching in the next couple of years
21:15because i've been waiting for several years now
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