00:00So we're here in Rome at the International Ombudsman Conference with Teresa Angigno, she's the European Ombudsman, Ombudswoman, and she's
00:10today here to talk with more than 200 delegates from all over the world who have come to Rome for
00:16two days of conferences, seminars, also bilateral meetings with delegations from very far away.
00:24I would like to talk to you a little bit about what you're doing, and we're going to start maybe
00:31with the inquiry on revolving doors.
00:34So your institution has found that eight out of 15 agencies in the European Union do not have rules on
00:45revolving doors.
00:46So their functionaries, their employees can leave the agencies, go to the private sector, conflict of interest rules are not
00:56there.
00:56So why did you start this inquiry, and what is it that you are also understanding of this revolving door
01:05issue?
01:06Okay, so thank you very much. It is a pleasure to be here with you, and also to speak about
01:10my work.
01:11It's a way to give also a visibility that any Ombudsman office needs, exactly for citizens to know that they
01:17can come to us if they have a problem, in my case, with European institutions.
01:22The own initiative inquiries are very important for an Ombudsman office, because it's a way for us to work more
01:28proactively and less reactive to the complaints.
01:30Nevertheless, they should be used strategically, when we understand that there are areas where we can proactively have a structural
01:39view on a given topic that will help to enhance the good administration in Europe.
01:45So as soon as I started my office, I understood from three complaints that I had with three different agencies,
01:51with very good outcomes, because the three were maladministration, that actually these best practices that the agencies were now implementing
02:00could also serve as a very good benchmark for other agencies.
02:04We had already worked in the past with the Commission, now it was important to look at the agencies.
02:08So that's what we did. We did an oversight of 15 agencies, and the results actually pointed to the fact
02:16that, indeed, agencies do have rules, but they apply them unevenly.
02:22And in this case, it's particularly important to understand what was the perspective of the Ombudsman.
02:28It was a two-way perspective. First of all, very important, we need to have revolving doors rules that are
02:35clear and consistent.
02:36Why? Because it's a matter of protection, the public interest.
02:40And the second perspective that is as important, we are living in a world where the European labour market has
02:46changed.
02:47So we have more mobility, more complex careers, more flexibility, meaning more movements from the public to the private.
02:54Therefore, it is really important to understand how are these agencies dealing with the conflict of interest.
02:59In the end, what we found was exactly that they had rules, but they were applied unevenly, and they could
03:06benefit from the best practices that were coming from many of these agencies.
03:10So we came up with these guidelines of best practices, which I believe will help for the future of the
03:16agencies to better deal with conflict of interest and revolving doors to the betterment of good administration as a whole.
03:23So these rules are recommendations, so they're not binding.
03:27Do you think that the European Union should adopt a 27 country-wide rules, a directive, or maybe some form
03:39of regulation that applies to all member states in a coercive way?
03:44That's a very important question. First of all, the Ombudsman never do policy, so that's not for me.
03:49That's for the politicians and decision-makers.
03:51But you're touching a very important issue that allows me to explain as well that the fact that you have
03:57different rules in terms of conflicts of interest and revolving doors is also related to the fact that you need
04:02a certain level of flexibility.
04:04Why? Because you have to understand that certain jobs, well, do require different reflection in terms of cooling off periods
04:11and, of course, also notifications and restrictions.
04:14What is important to guarantee that there is a minimum common rule.
04:19So what I would advise is to have an harmonized minimum common rule to all European Union agencies to guarantee
04:27that flexibility does not mean fragmentation and different standards as applied to ethics.
04:33Another inquiry that you launched recently is related to food safety and especially baby milk, so formula and products, you
04:44know, for infants.
04:46We have a system that dates back to 1979 when we talk about food safety and notifications among member states
04:56when something wrong is happening.
04:59Do you think that it's time for kind of like a little update?
05:03What are you getting from your inquiry?
05:05Very important.
05:07So, first of all, the recognition that we are also having more and more of issues that are related with
05:13so-called composite administrative procedures.
05:16A very big word but easy to explain.
05:18We have shared competences between the European Union institutions and the member states.
05:23And sometimes the gaps exist when you have to link both and guarantee the efficiency, which derives from, of course,
05:30the weakest link, meaning that we need to guarantee that everything works out not only at the level of the
05:35European Union, meaning in this case the Commission, but also at the level of the member states.
05:40My oversight focuses on the Commission and how the Commission exercises its powers related exactly to the centrality of receiving
05:49the notifications, processing, assessing and then sending to the member states.
05:54But as important as I am analyzing the Commission is the possibility to analyze national authorities and how they are
06:01also dealing with these challenges.
06:03And that's actually not for me.
06:05It's exactly for the National Ombudsman.
06:07And within the European Network of Ombudsman, what I did, I reached out to these National Ombudsman and I invited
06:13them in their full autonomy to develop their own inquiries.
06:16And then in the end, what I'm hoping for is to have a very good conclusion on if there is
06:21the need to enhance and to develop a system that also faces the new challenges.
06:26Because as you said, and rightly said, well, we are living in a new era with new challenges, particularly concerning
06:33the global supply chains, as well as, for example, the e-commerce that can bypass certain very important safety rules.
06:41So it's important to look at that, just, well, to safeguard the fact that people are watching and they should
06:48understand that the system that the European Union already has is already a very robust system.
06:53So what I'm aiming for is to guarantee that, well, it's even more robust than what we already have.
06:59Talking about, you know, big changes and a new world that we're living in, AI is now a part of
07:07our daily lives.
07:08And I know that there has been a spike in complaints to the Ombudsman because people were directed to your
07:14institution by AI chatbots.
07:17So is this a good thing, the fact that people are now more aware through these instruments?
07:22And at the same time, how are you using AI in your office to help you sort through these complaints?
07:29So thank you very much for that question.
07:31It allows me to speak about the importance of my office when it comes to the impact of AI.
07:36Be that at the level, of course, of the institutions, how the institutions are coping and using AI, because I
07:43do have specific competences under the AI Act.
07:46But also, how am I dealing with the impact of AI in my own office and in my own operations?
07:52First of all, I think it's important to clarify that I truly believe in the positive aspects of artificial intelligence.
07:59But I also recognize the risks.
08:01The risks are real.
08:02They're not even abstract or potential.
08:04So we are living at a time where it is very important for institutions, as also the Ombudsman office,
08:09to reflect and reflect together with other institutions what kind of governance models we are going to implement,
08:16exactly to guarantee that whatever we do, we strengthen good administration,
08:21the principles of transparency and accountability, and not the other way around.
08:26So there are a certain number of principles already well established related to this.
08:32Of course, that whenever you use AI, people should know about it.
08:36You should be able to explain.
08:38The responsibility should always be human.
08:40And everything should be ethical by design and used to strengthen good administration.
08:46Nevertheless, as you also referred to, we are living in a new era.
08:50So it is normal that the challenges will start to arrive.
08:54And we need to be prepared for that.
08:56In my office, we are already receiving complaints.
08:59So the part of the complaint handling, we are receiving complaints related to AI,
09:05namely complaints related to how, well, EU funds are being managed and if the AI is being used or not.
09:14And I believe that within these three first inquiries, there are kind of pioneer inquiries that more will come.
09:21So we are prepared already or preparing ourselves to that.
09:24And internally, indeed, the impact of AI is shown in the number of complaints that we are receiving.
09:31And that actually points to the fact that LLMs are used.
09:35And I have to say always that this is a mixed blessing.
09:39So it's positive.
09:40Why?
09:41Because of the awareness.
09:42So LLMs are helping institutions as the Ombudsman Office for citizens to know that we exist
09:47and helping them to reach the office.
09:49But then, well, it is putting a lot of pressure in our services.
09:54Many of these complaints are out-of-mandate complaints.
09:57They're very long, very complex, very well written.
10:00And I need to be prepared also to face that.
10:02What I decided to do, since I believe that it is a challenge that goes also beyond my office,
10:07I reached out to other institutions alike in the sense that they are also open to complaints coming from the
10:14outside.
10:14In particular, the OLAF, that's the Anti-Fraud Agency, and the EDPS, the Data Protection,
10:22exactly to come together, understand the trends that exist, the approaches,
10:27and also the possibility of using AI to deal with AI.
10:31One final question, and it regards, you know, this crowd that you are meeting today.
10:38So there's more than 200 delegates here coming from all over the world.
10:41So what is your experience in Rome meeting your colleagues,
10:46meeting people coming from very different kinds of systems, environments?
10:51What are you going to leave Rome with in terms of, you know, new baggage, new knowledge?
11:00I love Rome. I love Italy.
11:02And I have to say that, well, me coming here is not just an institutional visit.
11:06It's also a very emotional one because I did my Erasmus here.
11:10So, and actually, I actually can say this, that probably exactly because of that,
11:16Rome was the first city where I really felt that I was European
11:20and that Europe was much more than just institutions or treaties.
11:24There are also people coming together and sharing experiences and benefiting from those experiences.
11:30So I think that's exactly the value added of these conferences
11:34and also the European Network of Ombudsman that I have the privilege to coordinate.
11:40because it allows us to come together, to share experiences and support each other
11:44in a world that actually we need that support because everything is new
11:49and it's very important to grow also with the knowledge that others also have
11:54because some of them are already facing many challenges that we, in Europe
11:58or in certain member state countries, we are just starting to feel the impact.
12:04So, I leave Rome with, I would say, two words, hope and cooperation.
12:12Thank you. Thank you, Teresa Anginio.
12:14And have a great time still in Rome at the conference.
12:18And maybe we'll see you in Brussels.
12:19Thank you.
12:20Thank you.
12:20Thank you.
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