- 2 days ago
Factory foreman maintains he visited the pencil factory between 12:20 and 12:25 on the morning of the murder, and that Leo Frank was present
Lemmie A. Quinn, foreman of the metal department at the National Pencil Company, was called to the stand. He resides at 31B Julliam Street. Mary Phagan worked in his department, he told the coroner. The last time he saw her was the Monday before the murder, when she left the plant around 2 o'clock in the afternoon, earlier than usual, because the metal she worked with had run out and she wanted to make it to a matinee. He said he did not know any of her close friends, though she worked alongside Helen Ferguson, Grace Hix, and Magnolia Kennedy. Henry Smith and John Ramey also worked in the department.
Quinn said he worked on Friday, April 25th until 5:30 in the evening, collected his pay, and left with the understanding that he would return Monday.
His Movements on Saturday
The following morning, Saturday, he rose around 7 o'clock. He later went uptown with his wife to have a photograph taken of their baby at Kuhn's studio, where they spent about ten minutes. They returned home, and Quinn went back uptown again. The coroner stopped him at this point and questioned him closely on every hour and minute.
He left home the second time around 11:45, he said, heading to the market before it closed so he could buy provisions for Sunday. He purchased meat and vegetables on that trip. He could not describe the man who sold him the meat but recalled that the vegetable seller was roughly five feet eleven inches tall, weighing between 165 and 170 pounds, clean shaven and appearing to be a foreigner, possibly Italian.
From the market he proceeded to Benjamin's pharmacy, where he bought cigars from a man named Pounds, arriving there a few minutes after noon. He then made his way up Whitehall Street, turned onto Hunter Street, continued to Forsyth, and walked to the pencil factory. He said there was nothing unusual about visiting the factory on holidays, as he did so frequently. On this occasion he wanted to speak with Mr. Schiff. He found the front door unlocked and arrived sometime between 12:20 and 12:25 in the afternoon.
When asked how he could account for the time so precisely, he explained that he had calculated it based on when he left home. He said he had checked his watch several times while still at the house and knew he had departed around 11:45. The walk to the market took him roughly ten to fifteen minutes, putting him there close to noon. Buying the meat went quickly, though the vegetables took about ten minutes. He was at the market no longer than ten to twelve minutes total, stopped two or three minutes at Benjamin's, and the walk from there to the factory took approximately five minutes.
When He Saw Mr. Frank
Lemmie A. Quinn, foreman of the metal department at the National Pencil Company, was called to the stand. He resides at 31B Julliam Street. Mary Phagan worked in his department, he told the coroner. The last time he saw her was the Monday before the murder, when she left the plant around 2 o'clock in the afternoon, earlier than usual, because the metal she worked with had run out and she wanted to make it to a matinee. He said he did not know any of her close friends, though she worked alongside Helen Ferguson, Grace Hix, and Magnolia Kennedy. Henry Smith and John Ramey also worked in the department.
Quinn said he worked on Friday, April 25th until 5:30 in the evening, collected his pay, and left with the understanding that he would return Monday.
His Movements on Saturday
The following morning, Saturday, he rose around 7 o'clock. He later went uptown with his wife to have a photograph taken of their baby at Kuhn's studio, where they spent about ten minutes. They returned home, and Quinn went back uptown again. The coroner stopped him at this point and questioned him closely on every hour and minute.
He left home the second time around 11:45, he said, heading to the market before it closed so he could buy provisions for Sunday. He purchased meat and vegetables on that trip. He could not describe the man who sold him the meat but recalled that the vegetable seller was roughly five feet eleven inches tall, weighing between 165 and 170 pounds, clean shaven and appearing to be a foreigner, possibly Italian.
From the market he proceeded to Benjamin's pharmacy, where he bought cigars from a man named Pounds, arriving there a few minutes after noon. He then made his way up Whitehall Street, turned onto Hunter Street, continued to Forsyth, and walked to the pencil factory. He said there was nothing unusual about visiting the factory on holidays, as he did so frequently. On this occasion he wanted to speak with Mr. Schiff. He found the front door unlocked and arrived sometime between 12:20 and 12:25 in the afternoon.
When asked how he could account for the time so precisely, he explained that he had calculated it based on when he left home. He said he had checked his watch several times while still at the house and knew he had departed around 11:45. The walk to the market took him roughly ten to fifteen minutes, putting him there close to noon. Buying the meat went quickly, though the vegetables took about ten minutes. He was at the market no longer than ten to twelve minutes total, stopped two or three minutes at Benjamin's, and the walk from there to the factory took approximately five minutes.
When He Saw Mr. Frank
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00:00Lemmy Quinn, grilled by coroner Paul Dunhu, but he sticks to his statement, the Atlanta Journal.
00:06Thursday, May 8, 1913, page 1, column 1. Lemmy A.
00:11Quinn was called to the stand. He lives at 31 B. Jellium Street, he said, and is foreman of the
00:16metal department at the National Pencil Factory.
00:19Mary Fagan worked in his department, he said. The last time he saw her was on the Monday preceding the
00:24murder, he said.
00:25She left the plant about 2 o'clock p.m. that Monday, said he.
00:30That was earlier than usual, but she left because the metal with which she worked had run out and she
00:34wanted to hurry to the matinee.
00:36He didn't know any of her intimate friends, said he.
00:38She worked with Helen Ferguson and Grace Hicks and Magnolia Kennedy, said he, and Henry Smith and John Ramey also
00:44worked in that department.
00:46He worked on Friday, April 25th, until 5.30 o'clock p.m., said Quinn.
00:51He got his pay and left with the understanding that he would come to work on Monday.
00:55The next morning, Saturday, he got up about 7 o'clock a.m.
00:58Later, he went uptown with his wife to get a picture made of their baby.
01:02Then they went back home.
01:04He came uptown again, said he.
01:05He was stopped there and questioned closely about hours and minutes.
01:09He left home about 9.30 o'clock, he said.
01:12He and his wife and baby went straight to Coon's photograph studio.
01:15They were there about 10 minutes, he said.
01:18They stopped next at the Globe Clothing Company's store on Whitehall Street, said he,
01:22and talked for a while with some friends of his in there.
01:24He named them.
01:25He and his wife were there about 5 or 10 minutes.
01:28They went from there down to a meat market in the next block south and bought some meat,
01:32staying there about 5 minutes.
01:34Farther down the street, they stopped in at a soda water stand and bought some soft drinks.
01:38They arrived home about 11.15 o'clock.
01:41He remained in the house about 30 minutes.
01:43He left there about 11.45 o'clock, for town again, to get to the market before it closed,
01:49so he could buy some supplies for Sunday.
01:51He bought some meat and vegetables on that trip, said he.
01:54He could not describe the man he bought the meat from.
01:57He bought the vegetables first from a man about 5 feet 11 inches tall, 165, 170 pounds in weight,
02:04clean shaved.
02:05The man seemed to be a foreigner.
02:07He looked like an Italian.
02:09He went to the factory.
02:10From the meat market, he went to Benjamin's Pharmacy and bought some cigars from a man named
02:14Pounds.
02:15He arrived there at a few minutes after 12 o'clock.
02:18He went on up Whitehall, left on Hunter Street, to Forsyth, and then to the pencil factory.
02:23There was nothing unusual about him going to the factory on holidays, said the witness.
02:28He did so often.
02:29He wanted to speak to Mr. Schiff on this occasion, said he.
02:32He found the front door unlocked.
02:34He did not see Mary Fagan.
02:35He got there sometime between 12.20 and 12.25 o'clock p.m., said he.
02:40He was asked how he observed the time so minutely.
02:43He figured it on the time he left home, said he.
02:45He knew he left there about 11.45 o'clock because he looked at his watch several times
02:50while he was at home.
02:51He walked to town, up Pulliam, to Garnett, to Whitehall, and so to the market.
02:56It took him about 10 or 15 minutes to make the walk.
02:59It was pretty close to 12 o'clock when he got to the market, said he.
03:02He did not remember looking at his watch after he left home.
03:06It didn't take him long to buy the meat and vegetables.
03:08He bought 40 cents worth of steak.
03:10He was waited on immediately.
03:12It took him about 10 minutes, however, he said, to buy the vegetables.
03:16He wasn't around the market longer than 10 or 12 minutes.
03:19He stopped two or three minutes in Benjamin's on the corner.
03:23The walk from there to the factory took about five minutes.
03:26He went straight to the office.
03:27He didn't go anywhere else.
03:29He didn't remember hearing the noon whistles blow.
03:32When he saw Mr. Frank, he found Mr. Frank in the latter's private office.
03:36They exchanged good mornings, he said.
03:39Is Mr. Schiff in?
03:40Quinn said he inquired.
03:41No, I don't suppose he will be down today, Quinn said Mr. Frank replied.
03:45You see, you can't keep me away even on holidays, Quinn said he remarked to Mr. Frank.
03:50He said that Mr. Frank answered yes, and laughed, and nothing else was said.
03:54He was there in the office about two minutes, said he.
03:57He wasn't positive about the exact time.
03:59He didn't think it could be as early as 12.15 when he arrived there.
04:03It could have been between 12.20 and 12.35, he admitted.
04:07Could it have been as late as 12.30 o'clock, he was asked.
04:10It could have been, but it wasn't.
04:13Why are you so positive?
04:15Because I was somewhere else at 12.30, the witness answered.
04:18He continued that when he left the factory he stopped to talk with Mr. Malsby,
04:23at Mr. Malsby's place of business, two doors from the factory.
04:26He offered Mr. Malsby a cigar.
04:29Malsby told him, those girls are in the restaurant, and he answered, I know it.
04:33I saw them when I came up.
04:34He told the names of two young women, one of whom was then a bride, and the other of whom
04:39still worked in the factory.
04:40Eyes at factory now.
04:42Mr. Quinn said that he thought Miss Carinthia Hall is at the pencil factory this Thursday.
04:46The Miss Hall he saw at the undertaker's establishment was a stenographer at Montag Brothers,
04:52and not Miss Carinthia Hall, he said.
04:54The witness said that his purpose in going to the factory Saturday was to see Mr. Schiff
04:59and talk baseball with him.
05:00He had been accustomed to drop by the factory often on Saturdays and holidays, he said.
05:05Mr. Quinn said that after leaving the factory, he met the young ladies Miss Hall and Mrs.
05:10Freeman at the Busy Bee Calf at the corner of Forsyth and Hunter Streets.
05:14In reply to a question from the coroner, he said that he thinks Mrs. Freeman is at the
05:19factory this Thursday.
05:21Mrs. Freeman, who was about seventeen years old, had been married the day before Friday,
05:25he said.
05:26Mr. Quinn said that he wanted to chat with her about the wedding.
05:29They remained in the calf only a few minutes, he said, all three leaving together.
05:33Mr. Quinn said that he went to DeFore Brothers Pool Parlor, getting there about twelve-thirty,
05:38and chatted with the proprietors until about one-fifteen.
05:41The coroner at this point asked Mr. Quinn if he knew May Barrett.
05:45He replied, yes, she is employed in the varnishing department of the pencil factory.
05:51A fifteen-minute walk.
05:53In response to a question, Mr. Quinn said that it takes him about fifteen minutes to
05:57walk from his home to the pencil factory.
05:59Going back to his visit to the pool room, Mr. Quinn said that after chatting baseball with
06:03the proprietors, he went to the Atlanta Theater to buy a ticket.
06:07Here, Mr. Quinn said in response to a question that he knows John Rainey.
06:11Just after he had bought his ticket at the theater, Mr. Quinn said he saw Cliff Dodgen,
06:16an employee of the theater.
06:17The witness said that he didn't remember exactly where his seat in the theater was,
06:21but thought it was on the ninth row, in the center aisle.
06:25No one that he knew sat near him that he remembered, he said.
06:28The witness said in reply to the coroner's question that Mr. Frank wore a brown suit Saturday.
06:33Mr. Quinn said that he went to the factory about nine-thirty o'clock Sunday morning.
06:37He met Mr. Darley and Ed Montag, an officer of the factory there, he said, and they went
06:43in the basement together.
06:44The witness said that he heard of the murder about nine o'clock Sunday morning when he went
06:49to a soda water stand near his home.
06:51Officer Payne and the men in charge of the stand were discussing it, he said, and told him.
06:56Mr. Quinn said that he gathered from the description given him then that the victim must have been
07:00Helen Ferguson. He was told that her first name was Mary, he said, and asked if the last
07:06was Fagan. The soda water man recalled it then. The witness said that he then went to the
07:11undertaker's establishment and looked at the body. Denied statement to officer. He said that
07:16on Sunday afternoon he saw Mr. Frank at the undertaker's. Mr. Frank wore a blue or a black
07:21suit then, he said. Mr. Quinn denied that he had told Officer Payne or Detective Starnes
07:26that he hadn't been to the factory since Friday. He declared that when he had talked
07:31with Detective Starnes and Campbell at the rear door of the factory, he had not stated
07:35that he hadn't been to the factory since Friday. Mr. Quinn was asked about the white
07:40material used in his department. It was known as Haskelline, he said, and was used as a lubricant
07:46for the machines. It came shipped in barrels, he said. The witness said that on Tuesday or
07:51Wednesday in the detective's office, he recalled his visit to Mr. Frank on Saturday and that
07:56Mr. Frank remembered it readily. He told Mr. Frank, he said, that if it would do any good
08:01to mention his visit, he would tell of it. Mr. Frank suggested that he mention it to his
08:05lawyer first, the witness said. At this point, Mr. Quinn, in response to a question, again
08:10denied that he had told Officer Payne or Detective Starnes or Campbell that he hadn't been to the
08:15factory since Friday. The witness said that he knew Miss Grace Jones and that he thinks
08:20she has been at the factory since the tragedy. He hadn't accompanied Miss Jones from the
08:24factory, he said, and had not seen her since the tragedy, except on the fourth floor of
08:30the factory. He had talked to her there, he said, to see if she would not come to work
08:34in his department in case there were a number of vacancies that were anticipated. Mr. Quinn
08:39said that he didn't remember discussing the Fagan case with Miss Jones. Mr. Quinn said that
08:44he paid the Coleman's a visit of consolation on Thursday. He went, he said, at the suggestion
08:49of Mr. Darley and Miss Magnolia Kennedy and because he thought he should go. His visit
08:54was purely one of consolation, he said. Coroner Doanhoo then asked Quinn, did you ever tell
09:00Mr. Coleman, Mary Fagan's stepfather, how Frank acted toward the girls in your department?
09:05No, sir. Did you ever tell Mr. Coleman how you treated the girls? Yes, I told him I had
09:10always tried to make the girls feel at home. Frequently in fixing their machines, I would
09:15tell them to get out of the way and let Papa fix it. I told Mr. Coleman how jolly Mary
09:20was about a remark she made once. Yes, you look like Papa. Do you know a man named Barrett?
09:26Yes. You never mentioned to him that you went to the pencil factory that Saturday? No, sir.
09:32When was the first time that you told anybody that you had been up there Saturday? I told
09:36my father the next day, on Sunday. I didn't tell Chief Lanford or any of the detectives until
09:41last Monday. Why did you withhold that information? I wasn't asked about it. You didn't consider
09:47it your duty to tell unless you were asked? No, I didn't want to be dragged into it any
09:52sooner than necessary. State what else you know, that you have retained. Nothing. You
09:57are not withholding anything then? No, sir, nothing. You say it was your duty to come down
10:02and see Mr. Frank after his arrest? Yes, sir. Do you consider it your duty to protect Mr.
10:07Frank? No, sir. His pay went on. He was asked if his pay went on while he called upon Mr.
10:13Frank at the jail and said yes. Answering further questions, he said that now and then he got
10:18away from matinees, etc., but that his pay went on, that he wasn't docked for absences.
10:23He was asked about his call at the jail. You came down and recalled your visit to Mr. Frank.
10:28Did he tell you to keep quiet about it until he had told his lawyers? No. He remarked that
10:34he was going to tell his lawyers. He said that Mr. Frank remembered his having been there,
10:38but did not remember the time of the visit until his attention was called to it.
10:42Why did you volunteer this information to Mr. Frank and not to the detectives?
10:47I knew he couldn't question me for three or four hours and the detectives could.
10:51Did Mr. Frank consider it advisable that nothing be known about this? No, sir. Mr. Frank didn't
10:57ask me not to tell about it. I didn't volunteer to tell it because I expected to be asked every
11:01day. Why didn't you want to be questioned? I knew they had three or four men holding them
11:06here and they could hold me if they wanted to, as I had been in the building on Saturday.
11:11Other questions intervened and then the coroner asked, Did you go out to Mrs. White's yesterday?
11:16No, sir. I don't know Mrs. White. Arthur White's wife, you know Arthur White? Yes, but I never
11:22have been out to his house. Quinn was excused from the stand at this juncture.
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