00:00Detective Harry Scott's testimony as given before coroner's jury. The Atlanta Journal. Friday,
00:05May 9th, 1913, page 6, column 1. An unexpected turn was given to the coroner's inquest into
00:12the mysterious murder of Mary Fagan Thursday afternoon when Harry Scott, the Pinkerton
00:17detective who has been representing that agency in its work on the case, was called to the stand
00:22by the coroner. Mr. Scott was in the room at the moment. One new detail that he revealed was in
00:27a
00:27reply to a direct question from the coroner when he stated that Herbert Haas, attorney for Leo M.
00:33Frank and attorney for the National Pencil Factory, requested him and superintendent of the Pinkerton
00:39Agency in Atlanta to withheld from the police all evidence they gathered until he, Mr. Haas,
00:45would consider it. Their reply, said Mr. Scott, was that they would withdraw from the case before
00:50they would do that. He proceeded to say that he and his firm still are retained by the pencil company.
00:55Mr. Scott was called to the stand when Assistant Superintendent Schiff of the pencil factory left
01:01it. He is Assistant Superintendent of the Atlanta Agency of the Pinkerton Detective Service, he said.
01:06He lives at 52 Cherry Street. The agency was retained in the case by the National Pencil Company
01:12to locate the party responsible for the murder of Mary Fagan. The engagement was made Monday afternoon,
01:19April 28th, when about four o'clock he received a phone call from Leo M. Frank,
01:24superintendent of the factory, and in response to it he, Scott, went to the factory to see Mr. Frank.
01:31There, said he, he found a group of men whom he afterward identified as Frank, Mr. Darley,
01:37and others, standing around the time clock talking. He introduced himself and said he wanted to see
01:42privately whoever was particularly interested in the case. He and Mr. Frank and one or two others went
01:48into a private office, and Mr. Frank called Sig Montag, treasurer of the company, over the telephone
01:54to get authority to employ the detectives. Asked how Mr. Frank broached the subject to him, Mr. Scott
01:59said the factory superintendent remarked, I guess you've read of the horrible murder committed?
02:04We feel that the company ought to make some investigation to show the public we are interested
02:09in clearing up the crime. We want the Pinkertons to locate the murderer. Mr. Frank then told him
02:15all he, Mr. Frank, seemed to know about the matter, said the detective. Mr. Frank said that he had been
02:20down at police barracks a short while before, and that Detective Black seemed to suspect him of the
02:25crime, quoted Frank in detail. Mr. Frank detailed his movements on that particular Saturday, said the
02:31detectives. The witness quoted as he remembered the relation, giving the same story that since has been
02:37elaborated by Mr. Frank himself and others on the stand. Mr. Scott said that the superintendent said
02:43he left the factory about 6.15 on the afternoon of Saturday, April 26th. As he went out of the
02:49front
02:49door, he said, he saw Lee sitting on a packing box outside talking with Gant, formerly a bookkeeper in
02:55the factory. Then he went on to relate the matter, as it is already generally accepted, about leaving
03:00Gant there and telephoning to the night watchman later after failing to get him once over the telephone.
03:06After getting the watchman over the telephone and learning that everything was all right, Mr.
03:10Scott said, Mr. Frank told him he, Mr. Frank, prepared to go to bed about 9 o'clock.
03:16He asked Mr. Frank very few questions, said the detective. He took notes of what was told to him.
03:21He went over the building with Mr. Frank then, looking at the elevator, the time clock, the machine room,
03:28where Frank pointed out to him a machine on which human hair was said to have been found that morning,
03:32and pointed out also what were believed to be bloodstains on the floor.
03:37Mr. Darley accompanied them. He went into the basement with his escort, said the detective,
03:42and saw the trash pile where the hat and shoe had been found, also the spot where the body had
03:47been found,
03:48and the staple that had been pulled with the lock from the back door.
03:52Offers no theory.
03:53Mr. Frank advanced no theory about the crime, said the detective, and offered no suggestions.
03:58He talked to him the night afterward at police headquarters in the presence of Detective Black,
04:03but he didn't ask the pencil superintendent for a statement because he understood the police had one already.
04:08He denied that Mr. Frank had reprimanded him for too much zeal, or had remonstrated with him for trailing him.
04:14Mr. Frank refused attorney's request.
04:17The detective answered a direct question, however, by saying that Herbert Haas,
04:21representing himself to be an attorney for Mr. Frank,
04:24did call at the Pinkerton office, and there, to Superintendent Pierce and Mr. Scott,
04:29made the request that the detectives withhold from the police all information which they gathered
04:34until he, Mr. Haas, had considered it.
04:37They told him they would withdraw from the case first, said Mr. Scott.
04:41Who gets copies of your reports? he was asked by the coroner.
04:45I think Mr. Sigmontag gets copies of all reports we make, said the witness.
04:50He added, replying to questions, that his agency still is employed by the pencil company
04:54to fix the responsibility for this murder.
04:57Do you know anything about the conversation Mr. Frank and the Negro Newt Lee had along together at headquarters?
05:03The detective replied that City Detective Black and he suggested to Mr. Frank
05:07that he employ this method for drawing from the Negro all the information he could,
05:12and Frank agreed, and went into the room with Lee.
05:15He did not know what passed between them, said the detective,
05:19except what he learned from the Negro's relation of what was said.
05:22Didn't try to get truth.
05:24Mr. Scott said that Newt Lee told him Mr. Frank did not try to get the truth out of him,
05:28Lee, during their talk at the police station,
05:31that Lee said he accused Mr. Frank of knowing something,
05:34and that Mr. Frank only hung his head and later told him if he, Lee,
05:38didn't stick to his story they would both go to hell,
05:40that Lee said he told Mr. Frank the crime must have been committed in the daytime,
05:44and Mr. Frank again only hung his head.
05:47Mr. Scott said that Lee then said he had started to describe to Mr. Frank how he had found the
05:51body,
05:52and that Mr. Frank said let's don't talk about that anymore,
05:55before he had finished.
05:57Mr. Scott said that Mr. Frank had told him after the conversation with Lee that he couldn't get
06:02anything out of the Negro.
06:03The witness said that Mr. Frank reported that he had asked Lee why there was a break in the time
06:08slip,
06:08and that Lee said he had punched it.
06:11Mr. Scott said that he did not find the bloody shirt at Newt Lee's home,
06:14that it was found by Detective Black and Detective Bullard.
06:17The witness said that he looked at the shirt,
06:19and that it seemed to him it had not been worn,
06:22and that the blood was fresh.
06:24He said that Lee, when shown the shirt, said,
06:27that's my shirt,
06:28and later qualified his statement by saying that it might be his shirt,
06:32that he hadn't worn it in two years.
06:34Have you any definite information which makes you suspect any party of this crime?
06:38The coroner asked Detective Scott.
06:40Wouldn't commit himself?
06:42I wouldn't commit myself, replied the detective,
06:45who continued that his investigation was not complete,
06:48and that he was working on a chain of circumstances.
06:50Is this chain of circumstances known to yourself alone?
06:53He was asked.
06:55No, replied Mr. Scott.
06:57Detective Black has been with me all the time on the case.
06:59Mr. Scott was then excused.
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