Speciale Garlasco 05 [1a Parte] Ore14 Sera del 21 Maggio 2026

DivinumCrime

Al centro del nuovo appuntamento con la cronaca, i drammatici sviluppi sulla strage di Modena compiuta dal 31enne El Koudri, gli ultimi aggiornamenti sul caso della "famiglia del bosco" e i nuovi risvolti investigativi legati al delitto di Garlasco.   Speciale Garlasco 05 [1a Parte] 21 Maggio 2026  https://dai.ly/xabln68  Speciale Garlasco 05 [2a Parte] 21 Maggio 2026  https://dai.ly/xabls16  Playlist Garlasco:  https://dailymotion.com/playlist/xc67d8   #Garlasco #ChiaraPoggi #Poggi #AlbertoStasi #Stasi #AndreaSempio #Sempio #DeRensis #Bocellari #Ore14 #Ore14Sera   #Crime #TrueCrime #Delitti #Misteri #Killer #SerialKiller #ColdCase #Cronaca #CronacaNera #Mistero #Delitto #Documentari #Documentario #Docu #Doc #DivinumCrime

Transcript

00:00:01Thanks to Monica Giandotti, and her colleagues at TG2 Post, from TV2 Milan.

00:00:06Good evening to all the viewers of 2pm.

00:00:10In our titles, how many Elcudri are there in Italy, how many people today, at this moment,

00:00:18they live in the same condition as this man who committed a massacre in Modena.

00:00:23And then in the Casa del Bosco the desperate appeal of the parents of the children who ask us to give our children back.

00:00:29while in the background there is also a clash between magistrates and the ANM which raises the alarm, the Ministry of

00:00:39Justice.

00:00:40As for sending the inspectors, we will talk about it very soon,

00:00:44but today is also the day when the K twins launched their attack

00:00:49against Alberto Stasi's lawyer, Antonio De Renzi,

00:00:55against Alessandro De Giuseppe, correspondent of the television program Le Iene,

00:00:59against the former Marshal Marchetto, accused of incitement to crime,

00:01:06aimed at defamation and slander.

00:01:11But there's more, obviously it's a page from Garlasco,

00:01:14much more including the yellow of the famous hair in the sink.

00:01:18After the commercial.

00:01:449.35pm can start at 2pm,

00:01:47Welcome again to all the viewers of 2pm on TV2 Milan.

00:01:55Welcome to Attorney Antonio De Renzi.

00:01:57Good evening to you and all the viewers.

00:01:59By Alberto Stasi with the lawyer Giada Bocellari,

00:02:03on a day when agencies broke this news,

00:02:09news that you can find summarized in our title.

00:02:13against us, the K sisters speak, an incitement to crime aimed at defamation.

00:02:20Who would have plotted this dark plot for so long, for years,

00:02:26in addition to the lawyer De Renzi, there is also the former marshal Marchetto,

00:02:32and then a fellow correspondent from the television programme Le Iene,

00:02:36Alessandro De Giuseppe.

00:02:38Where do we start?

00:02:40Where does she want from?

00:02:42So much his reaction.

00:02:43So, given that we are talking about the main background

00:02:52of the tragedy that involved a very good girl who was Chiara,

00:02:58even if the suspect called me a jackal in a wiretap because I mentioned Chiara,

00:03:05Chiara having been Alberto's girlfriend,

00:03:09who in any case is guilty according to justice,

00:03:11I think it is right to remember Chiara.

00:03:14That said, I have to say that after the news of the reopening of the investigation,

00:03:23This is the best day for me in the last year and a half.

00:03:28Really?

00:03:28Despite an accusation that I believe is unprecedented against a lawyer.

00:03:33Yes, especially in light of this,

00:03:36It's a very beautiful day,

00:03:39where finally something can be clarified

00:03:43which everyone will then interpret as they wish.

00:03:48You know, there are facts that speak for themselves,

00:03:50but above all what I will tell

00:03:52it is the proof that what you have just shown

00:03:58that hypothesis

00:03:59It's a hypothesis, I want to be kind,

00:04:04that we on planet Earth cannot understand,

00:04:08because if I wanted to perpetrate

00:04:12what these kind people hypothesize,

00:04:16what I will tell you this evening,

00:04:19I would have said it in a press conference

00:04:22to probably search

00:04:26thus, the reasoning of those who listen.

00:04:29But I've never done it,

00:04:30because I put the investigation before everything.

00:04:35Lawyer Bocellari didn't do it with me,

00:04:37why lawyer Bocellari

00:04:38he was the first person I called

00:04:42after that event happened on July 13th.

00:04:46So, it's right that we talk about it this evening.

00:04:49She mentioned one day in particular,

00:04:52July 13, 2022.

00:04:54Now, 6:46 PM.

00:04:55So, July 13, 2022 is a date

00:04:58which has been recurring at times for more than a year as,

00:05:01let's say, a question someone asks.

00:05:04But what happened on July 13, 2022?

00:05:06I never said that, right?

00:05:08No, he never said that.

00:05:09Rather, we can feel,

00:05:12Director Brindani, if I remember correctly,

00:05:13exactly 2pm,

00:05:15a few weeks ago,

00:05:16refers to this date.

00:05:18Because the 13th, in the meantime we can say this,

00:05:20What happens between July 13, 2022?

00:05:24Where is that judgment?

00:05:25Sure, right.

00:05:27So, Giada and I ask

00:05:33about 15-20 days before

00:05:36to be authorized to extract

00:05:40copy of the CDs containing the audio

00:05:43of the 2017 wiretaps.

00:05:45Let us remember that twice

00:05:47former deputy prosecutor Venditti

00:05:50he had not given his approval

00:05:53with his own motivations

00:05:54and is not introduced.

00:05:55For goodness sake.

00:05:56I'm coming back, physically I am,

00:05:58I'm returning from Chief Prosecutor Napoleon,

00:06:03I file the application

00:06:04and he transmits it

00:06:06to Deputy Prosecutor Venditti

00:06:08which authorizes.

00:06:10So I on July 13, 2022,

00:06:12at 1.30pm,

00:06:13in the prosecutor's office, I remember,

00:06:15there is still the deputy prosecutor Venditti,

00:06:18probably some members too

00:06:19of the judicial police

00:06:21which has been talked about in recent days,

00:06:23but these are checks

00:06:25that I don't have to do,

00:06:26I'm leaving the Palace of Justice

00:06:29with CDs in hand.

00:06:30So, July 13, 2000,

00:06:33give me a room though,

00:06:34July 13, 2022,

00:06:37It's about 1.30pm.

00:06:39There are also stamps

00:06:40which testify.

00:06:41Okay, listen to what he says

00:06:42Director Brindani,

00:06:43what is asked, he says

00:06:45at 2pm.

00:06:48He never dropped any news on me,

00:06:51except one,

00:06:51but we'll be waiting for you on July 13th.

00:06:56On July 13th,

00:06:57which is an important date

00:07:00to mark in the diary,

00:07:02July 13th.

00:07:03Dr. Cavallaro,

00:07:04Dr. Petra Calvina,

00:07:06Dr. Fazzo,

00:07:07that they had with me

00:07:08telephone reports

00:07:10with which we have confronted ourselves,

00:07:12they know

00:07:13that I never

00:07:14I asked something

00:07:16that cannot be asked.

00:07:18At that time,

00:07:19let's do something.

00:07:20Finally,

00:07:21she says,

00:07:21Now I'll tell you

00:07:22what's happening

00:07:23on that day,

00:07:24July 13th

00:07:25of 2022.

00:07:27He will tell us soon.

00:07:28Attorney De Rensis,

00:07:30we will talk to the other guests

00:07:32also of the new investigation,

00:07:34than the old one.

00:07:34We succeeded

00:07:35finally,

00:07:36with a little difficulty

00:07:37even to rebuild

00:07:38one of the important moments

00:07:40of the Garlasco investigation,

00:07:42the one in which the investigators

00:07:43they are located in front

00:07:44the famous hair

00:07:46in the sink.

00:07:47There is a photograph,

00:07:48maybe we can see it,

00:07:49a photograph

00:07:51which is very striking

00:07:51the investigators

00:07:53of the Provincial Command

00:07:55of the Caramieri of Milan,

00:07:55of the investigative unit,

00:07:56that they ask themselves

00:07:57but how is it possible

00:07:58that a person

00:07:58wash your hands thoroughly

00:08:00in an accurate manner

00:08:01and then they leave these...

00:08:03We need to see the photo though.

00:08:04Let's see it.

00:08:05Here it is.

00:08:06They leave this hair

00:08:07on the sink.

00:08:08Today maybe we can

00:08:09to give an explanation.

00:08:10And then there's the dad

00:08:11of Sempio

00:08:11that on Tg1

00:08:12he says

00:08:13my son

00:08:14in essence

00:08:15him too

00:08:15victim of a cowardice.

00:08:18What

00:08:19did he mean to say?

00:08:21We'll find out

00:08:22in a little while.

00:08:23At that time,

00:08:23we will meet again soon

00:08:24Lawyer De Rensis

00:08:25that will tell us

00:08:25also dated July 13, 2022.

00:08:27But now let's talk,

00:08:28we asked ourselves

00:08:29a question

00:08:29in our title.

00:08:31We are changing space.

00:08:32How many

00:08:33there are elcudri

00:08:34in Italy?

00:08:35how many people

00:08:36like him

00:08:36they are free

00:08:38to circulate

00:08:39with intentions

00:08:40assassins

00:08:41as a matter of fact

00:08:41this man

00:08:43disturbed

00:08:44but with a certain

00:08:45vocation

00:08:45for terrorism.

00:08:47for a trial

00:08:48and I passed by

00:08:49right in front

00:08:50to the place

00:08:51why you have to go through it

00:08:52of the accident

00:08:53there is an Italian flag

00:08:55many flowers

00:08:56a writing

00:08:56on the wall opposite

00:08:58I stayed

00:08:59very impressed.

00:09:00It's a thing

00:09:00Surely

00:09:01who scored

00:09:02all of us.

00:09:03At that time,

00:09:04let's do something

00:09:04we have

00:09:0645 seconds

00:09:07of advertising

00:09:08we have 45 seconds

00:09:09of advertising

00:09:10then with Nicole Di Giulio

00:09:11let's go and find out

00:09:11who is

00:09:12this man.

00:09:18In a little while

00:09:19we will also talk

00:09:20of the family

00:09:21of the Woods

00:09:22but immediately

00:09:23with Nicole Di Giulio

00:09:24we ask ourselves

00:09:25Who is Salim El Kudri?

00:09:27listen.

00:09:29A life

00:09:30studded

00:09:31of obsessions

00:09:32characterized

00:09:33from a frustration

00:09:34growing

00:09:35and from a violence

00:09:36creeping

00:09:36what a Saturday

00:09:37afternoon

00:09:38Salim El Kudri

00:09:39he vented

00:09:40running over with the car

00:09:41at full speed

00:09:42the passers-by

00:09:43in the center

00:09:44from Modena

00:09:46he wanted to hit

00:09:47more people

00:09:48possible

00:09:48risk

00:09:49reiteration

00:09:50and danger

00:09:51of escape

00:09:51writes the GIP

00:09:52who has it

00:09:53validated

00:09:54the arrest

00:09:54also having

00:09:55the observation

00:09:56psychiatric

00:09:57the police

00:09:59he's digging

00:09:59in his existence

00:10:00to outline

00:10:01the profile

00:10:02of this man

00:10:0331 years old

00:10:04original

00:10:05of Morocco

00:10:06but born

00:10:06in the province

00:10:06from Bergamo

00:10:07and search

00:10:08to understand

00:10:09whatever it is

00:10:09the origin

00:10:10of his

00:10:10crazy gesture

00:10:11from his cell phones

00:10:14and PC

00:10:14have emerged

00:10:15email

00:10:15full of anger

00:10:16in 2021

00:10:17writes in a way

00:10:18delirious

00:10:19at the University

00:10:20where he graduated

00:10:21in economics

00:10:22in 20 minutes

00:10:23send 4 emails

00:10:24you have to make me work

00:10:26as an employee

00:10:27not warehouseman

00:10:28then the insults

00:10:29bastards

00:10:30Christians

00:10:30you

00:10:31and yours

00:10:31Jesus Christ

00:10:32on the cross

00:10:33I burn it

00:10:34let me work

00:10:37first student

00:10:38then unemployed

00:10:39salts

00:10:40Melcudri

00:10:40he isolates himself

00:10:41more and more

00:10:42the research

00:10:43of an occupation

00:10:44becomes the torment

00:10:45that accompanies him

00:10:46daily

00:10:47and pushes it

00:10:48to bomb

00:10:49of phone calls

00:10:50dozens of agencies

00:10:51for use

00:10:52At that time

00:10:53you have a job

00:10:53he asks insistently

00:10:55contact also

00:10:56the NATO base

00:10:57of Camp Derby

00:10:58in Tuscany

00:10:59he wants to enlist

00:11:00and in emails

00:11:00he asks how the canteen is

00:11:02and the menu

00:11:02over the years

00:11:03seems to accumulate

00:11:04anger and resentment

00:11:06for the country

00:11:06where he grew up

00:11:07but that in his eyes

00:11:09he might have

00:11:09barred the doors

00:11:10not recognizing

00:11:12his skills

00:11:13a delirium

00:11:14whose causes

00:11:15maybe him too

00:11:16had at one point

00:11:17recognized

00:11:18it had in fact been

00:11:19followed

00:11:20from the mental health center

00:11:21from Castelfranco Emilia

00:11:23for a disorder

00:11:24schizoid

00:11:25of personality

00:11:25but in 2024

00:11:27had interrupted

00:11:28the treatment

00:11:30from prison

00:11:32where is it located

00:11:32in isolation

00:11:33the Cudri

00:11:34asks for a Bible

00:11:35a meeting

00:11:35with a priest

00:11:36of what he did

00:11:38to confused memories

00:11:39I knew that day

00:11:40I was dying

00:11:41not to kill

00:11:42not even to kill me

00:11:43he would have confided

00:11:44to his lawyer

00:11:45for him the accusation

00:11:47it's a massacre

00:11:47with the aggravating circumstance

00:11:48very serious injuries

00:11:53welcome our guests

00:11:54Monica Lufredi

00:11:55the criminal lawyer

00:11:56Saverio Macri

00:11:57the director of the press

00:11:59Alessia Lautone

00:11:59the director of truth

00:12:02Francesco Borgonovo

00:12:03Dr. Sara Viola

00:12:04psychiatrist

00:12:05I can't help but leave

00:12:07that with her

00:12:09no doctor Viola

00:12:09also because

00:12:10the viewers

00:12:11friends

00:12:12of Equatorial Hours

00:12:12who followed us

00:12:13during these

00:12:14many years

00:12:15of transmission

00:12:16they know how many times

00:12:17we told

00:12:18identical stories

00:12:19to those of this

00:12:22wretched man

00:12:23and the terror is that

00:12:24of having to tell others

00:12:26and we hope not

00:12:27but the concern

00:12:28grows

00:12:29this man was affected

00:12:30from a sketch disturbance

00:12:31I would say paranoid sketch

00:12:32because there are

00:12:33the persecutory aspects

00:12:34everyone had it in for him

00:12:35he couldn't find a job

00:12:36he didn't recognize him

00:12:37Italy has it in for him

00:12:38this country

00:12:39he has it in for him

00:12:39all of Italy

00:12:40so this causes

00:12:41a delusional idea

00:12:42extremely dangerous

00:12:43very dangerous too

00:12:44why Milo

00:12:45because as rightly

00:12:46it was said in the service

00:12:47these patients

00:12:48they often discontinue treatment

00:12:50and they withdraw

00:12:51to the medical check-up

00:12:52which must be instead

00:12:53constant

00:12:54continuous

00:12:54the hatred that is directed

00:12:56towards

00:12:57of many people

00:12:58the will to kill

00:12:59when he comes down

00:13:00from the car

00:13:01he does it with a knife

00:13:02and try again

00:13:02to attack

00:13:04you know the story

00:13:05then he is saved

00:13:06from the heroic intervention

00:13:08of people

00:13:09who were not afraid

00:13:10and they immobilized him

00:13:12these are subjects

00:13:13that go forward

00:13:14up to physical containment

00:13:15there is no type

00:13:17of autonomous limit

00:13:18in a person

00:13:19which is affected

00:13:19from this type of pathology

00:13:20up to physical containment

00:13:22then also in the following hours

00:13:23anger

00:13:24the fury

00:13:25the frustration

00:13:25they do not calm down

00:13:26the discomfort

00:13:27psychic

00:13:28psychological

00:13:28it belongs to all of us

00:13:30in the sense

00:13:30it is not exclusive

00:13:33let's say

00:13:33nor demerit

00:13:34nor suffering

00:13:35only of

00:13:37immigrants

00:13:38often clandestine

00:13:39this is not it

00:13:40the situation is certainly

00:13:41often though

00:13:42we tell stories about people

00:13:45illegally

00:13:45on the territory

00:13:46who commit acts

00:13:47which are acts

00:13:48that go in this direction

00:13:50central station

00:13:51a few days ago

00:13:51one was formed

00:13:52who was entering

00:13:53with a machete

00:13:54at the station

00:13:55Unfortunately

00:13:56illegal immigrants

00:13:57clearly escape

00:13:58even to the possibility

00:13:59to census

00:14:00psychiatric pathologies

00:14:01spread across the territory

00:14:02that are becoming

00:14:02really an emergency

00:14:04and we often ask

00:14:05Milo too

00:14:05thanks to your broadcast

00:14:06which is fundamental

00:14:07a focus on this topic

00:14:09resources to be donated

00:14:11to crime

00:14:13psychiatric

00:14:14director Lautone

00:14:14then immediately

00:14:15Director Borgonovo

00:14:17how much hate there is

00:14:18towards

00:14:19of this country

00:14:20in action

00:14:21by El Codri?

00:14:23but I

00:14:23I think there is

00:14:24so much hate

00:14:25in general

00:14:26so much anger

00:14:27of this man

00:14:28what he did

00:14:29he committed

00:14:29this gesture

00:14:30terrible

00:14:31I imagine that

00:14:33he is Italian

00:14:34this man

00:14:35let's say it

00:14:36so it's true

00:14:37which is second generation

00:14:38but he's Italian

00:14:39he is the Italian father

00:14:40and he grew up

00:14:41in Italy

00:14:41we heard

00:14:42the sister

00:14:43which is really

00:14:43Italian

00:14:44you have to prove

00:14:45the attachment

00:14:45to the country

00:14:46that gives you

00:14:47citizenship

00:14:48you need to know

00:14:48the story

00:14:49you need to know

00:14:49the language

00:14:50you must be

00:14:51sometimes

00:14:51you have the perception

00:14:52that this

00:14:53from us

00:14:53be considered

00:14:54a bit

00:14:55accessory

00:14:55but this is Italian

00:14:57but

00:14:57let's talk about

00:14:58a man

00:14:58Italian

00:14:59born in Italy

00:15:00who knows

00:15:01Very well

00:15:01our language

00:15:02who knows perfectly well

00:15:04what

00:15:05happens

00:15:06in our country

00:15:07all in all

00:15:08integrated

00:15:08why he went to school

00:15:09he went to university

00:15:10so let's talk

00:15:11of this typology

00:15:13in person

00:15:14it's not that we talk

00:15:15of a person

00:15:17connected

00:15:18we don't know yet

00:15:19clearly the investigations

00:15:20they will go on

00:15:21so maybe then

00:15:22they prove me wrong

00:15:22that we had it

00:15:23fact that

00:15:23his profiles

00:15:24have been blocked

00:15:25it can make you think

00:15:26to some contents

00:15:27Surely

00:15:27they are investigating

00:15:29and so we can't

00:15:29still say nothing

00:15:30but as of today

00:15:31maybe this

00:15:32we can't say

00:15:33of course the emails

00:15:34who sent

00:15:34they do a little

00:15:35to sense a certain

00:15:36resentment

00:15:37even in comparisons

00:15:37of our religion

00:15:39of our country

00:15:40but how to say

00:15:41then it's true

00:15:41who apologized

00:15:42immediately after

00:15:43All right

00:15:44director Borgonovo

00:15:45there's something here

00:15:46which you have to be careful about

00:15:48that is, not to

00:15:48he said very well

00:15:50Dr. Viola

00:15:51there are a lot of them

00:15:52of problems

00:15:52concerning mental distress

00:15:54the families

00:15:54that they have

00:15:55a person

00:15:56who suffers from it

00:15:57they know

00:15:58which in short

00:15:59are intended

00:16:00to a very difficult life

00:16:01but

00:16:02we must also be careful

00:16:03in this story

00:16:04don't liquidate everything

00:16:05with

00:16:05he's crazy

00:16:06that's what I mean

00:16:08it's true that

00:16:09they do not emerge so far

00:16:11of the elements

00:16:13that they connect it

00:16:13to some organization

00:16:15but we need to know

00:16:16how it works today

00:16:17terrorism

00:16:18terrorism today

00:16:19it's no longer done

00:16:20of bands

00:16:20that meet again

00:16:21in secret

00:16:22and not even

00:16:23in the mosques

00:16:24On the contrary

00:16:25the parents went

00:16:26in the mosque

00:16:26they are practitioners

00:16:28absolutely not him

00:16:29how it works

00:16:30it works that you go to point

00:16:32but by choice

00:16:33of some ideologists

00:16:34that we saw

00:16:34in the Islamic state

00:16:35in others

00:16:36starting

00:16:36since we have

00:16:38Unfortunately

00:16:38started to get to know them

00:16:40with the attacks

00:16:40in Europe

00:16:41that go to aim

00:16:42on these subjects here

00:16:43that is, borderline subjects

00:16:45Anyway

00:16:45or people who can

00:16:46to harbour discomfort

00:16:48and that they find

00:16:49let's say

00:16:50Islamization

00:16:52of radicalism

00:16:53a scholar said

00:16:54what is called

00:16:54Olivier Ruach

00:16:54but for now

00:16:55all this does not emerge

00:16:56In short

00:16:57we have a lot

00:16:58we did

00:16:59a whole race

00:17:00very fast

00:17:00to say that there isn't

00:17:01terrorism

00:17:02that isn't there

00:17:02premeditation

00:17:04All right

00:17:05it will be too

00:17:05I normally

00:17:06I don't know about you

00:17:07but I don't leave the house

00:17:08with a knife

00:17:0820 centimeters

00:17:10and I don't leave the house

00:17:11saying

00:17:11I know I'm going to die

00:17:13if there is no premeditation

00:17:14then we'll see

00:17:15what emerges

00:17:15because it will also be Italian

00:17:17but we don't have to

00:17:18we don't have to

00:17:19to pretend

00:17:20of not knowing

00:17:20that that guy

00:17:21of radicalism

00:17:22he's going to aim

00:17:23about them

00:17:24that is when you are

00:17:25frustrated with Italy

00:17:26why can't you find work

00:17:27what is it

00:17:27what comes to mind

00:17:28today often just

00:17:29in the second generations

00:17:30this malaise is strong

00:17:32this feeling

00:17:34non-Italians

00:17:35far from the country

00:17:35this is the thing

00:17:36that worries

00:17:37because they are Italian

00:17:38for all intents and purposes

00:17:39they are second generations

00:17:40but they don't have feelings

00:17:42they feel excluded

00:17:43they feel marginalized

00:17:44they feel criminalized

00:17:46so sometimes

00:17:47they also develop a

00:17:48maybe you go and idealize

00:17:50your hometown

00:17:51how many have we seen

00:17:52in Milan

00:17:52with the flags

00:17:53of states

00:17:54that maybe they see

00:17:55only during the holidays

00:17:56that they don't know

00:17:57Exactly

00:17:58where you live

00:17:58because maybe they were born here

00:17:59I am precisely

00:18:00second or third generations

00:18:01but the fact

00:18:02to be here

00:18:03in one place

00:18:04where I have no work

00:18:05and therefore bad Italians

00:18:07who have it in for me

00:18:08I see

00:18:08the other piece

00:18:10of my identity

00:18:11that exists

00:18:11like a refuge

00:18:13and maybe

00:18:13there is someone

00:18:14that pushes me

00:18:15forgetting that sometimes

00:18:16they escaped

00:18:17precisely from those countries

00:18:17because it was missing

00:18:19democracy, to put it simply

00:18:20how many are there

00:18:20who have no work

00:18:21in Italy

00:18:22why do they all go

00:18:22I think that definitely

00:18:23at the base there is

00:18:24the lack of integration

00:18:26why this

00:18:27we can talk

00:18:27the second generations

00:18:29it's not that enough

00:18:29to be Italian

00:18:30there is a discussion anyway

00:18:32of discomfort

00:18:33of little integration

00:18:34to stay anyway

00:18:35confined

00:18:35in those that are

00:18:36its own cultural aspects

00:18:37not feeling accepted

00:18:39wrongly

00:18:40or reason

00:18:40from this country

00:18:41if we read his email

00:18:42and his chats

00:18:43when he says precisely

00:18:45when he can't find a job

00:18:46and says

00:18:46I don't want a suitable job

00:18:48to the studies I have completed

00:18:49I don't want a job

00:18:50any

00:18:51which is the theme

00:18:52which concerns many

00:18:53young

00:18:54in our country

00:18:54Unfortunately

00:18:55who are forced

00:18:56even to emigrate

00:18:57in turn

00:18:58but

00:18:58this boy

00:19:00he came out with two weapons

00:19:01a knife

00:19:02and his car

00:19:03and he pointed them

00:19:04really his car

00:19:05like a ferocious weapon

00:19:07we saw

00:19:07these dramatic images

00:19:09and continued

00:19:09after his action

00:19:10so we have to see

00:19:12if this discomfort

00:19:13psychiatric

00:19:14then correspond

00:19:14with an inability

00:19:15really to understand

00:19:16and to want

00:19:17At that time

00:19:17what do you expect?

00:19:19lawyer Macri

00:19:20from this

00:19:21from this investigation

00:19:22and then

00:19:23from the indictment

00:19:24it could change

00:19:26I think so

00:19:28to me

00:19:28I totally agree

00:19:29with the director

00:19:30Borgonovi

00:19:30It leaves me perplexed

00:19:32that they are not contested

00:19:33the three main aggravating factors

00:19:34that I am

00:19:35premeditation

00:19:36the purpose of terrorism

00:19:38and racial hatred

00:19:39I attended

00:19:40in cases

00:19:41of demonstrations

00:19:43peaceful

00:19:44for commemoration

00:19:46we are not entering

00:19:46specifically

00:19:47where it was due

00:19:48wait

00:19:48ten years

00:19:49arrive at the Supreme Court

00:19:50Why

00:19:51let's say

00:19:52was not contested

00:19:53racial hatred

00:19:54here

00:19:55let's say

00:19:56we are facing

00:19:56to a very serious crime

00:19:57which provides for a penalty

00:19:58that in this case

00:19:59since there were no deaths

00:20:00not less than those ten years

00:20:02but with the concession

00:20:03of mitigating circumstances

00:20:04Always

00:20:04given the capacity

00:20:06to stand trial

00:20:07the choice of an abbreviated rite

00:20:09it would really be reduced

00:20:10much the penalty

00:20:11I want to remember

00:20:12that some time ago

00:20:13in Gai Aulenti square

00:20:15a very Italian

00:20:16he stabbed a person

00:20:17because he had it

00:20:17with the world of finance

00:20:19very Italian

00:20:20then racial hatred

00:20:23let's take an example

00:20:24on the contrary

00:20:25if I sent

00:20:26an email tomorrow

00:20:28to an employer

00:20:31at my university

00:20:32saying

00:20:32making comments

00:20:34so terrible

00:20:36on an ethnic group

00:20:37or a particular culture

00:20:39then I did something

00:20:40of the genre

00:20:40I'm not so sure

00:20:42that they wouldn't give me

00:20:42immediately

00:20:43even racial hatred

00:20:44here it is not that

00:20:46I'm closing right away

00:20:47it's not that there aren't any

00:20:48Italian criminals

00:20:50and it's not that there aren't any

00:20:50actually no no of course

00:20:52how many have been told

00:20:53of cases

00:20:54how much we talked

00:20:55of teenagers

00:20:56that vent

00:20:57with knives

00:20:57things

00:20:58there is a different element here

00:21:00that if nothing else

00:21:00it must be taken into consideration

00:21:02Meaning what

00:21:02there is a way out

00:21:04from the dark

00:21:05that these subjects see

00:21:07the Italian teenager

00:21:08he has some

00:21:09there is also Islam here

00:21:10and if that Islam there

00:21:12comes into contact

00:21:13with radical forums

00:21:15radical propaganda

00:21:17of a certain type

00:21:17can arm

00:21:18even one

00:21:19who is in his room

00:21:20let's start from a premise

00:21:22a person

00:21:22who does something like that

00:21:24the fifteen-year-old

00:21:24who tries to recruit

00:21:26terrorists

00:21:26in our country

00:21:28it's not that they're doing well

00:21:29they are people

00:21:31that come

00:21:32somehow

00:21:32trapped

00:21:33in this network

00:21:34of violence

00:21:35and perversion

00:21:36that exploits

00:21:36their weaknesses

00:21:37but the terrorist

00:21:38medium

00:21:39he is not the scientist

00:21:41in fact, this is exactly what it is

00:21:42I meant Emilio

00:21:43that one thing

00:21:43does not exclude the other

00:21:44that is, terrorism

00:21:45he almost always enlists

00:21:47or at least very often

00:21:48the subjects

00:21:49with some discomfort

00:21:50weak elements

00:21:51fragile

00:21:51and suggestible

00:21:52so things go together

00:21:54the look that

00:21:55which gives a matrix

00:21:56to terrorism

00:21:56it's that statement

00:21:57I went to die

00:21:59this is the quality

00:22:00there is no doctor

00:22:01also the mode

00:22:02of execution however

00:22:03because the mode

00:22:04of execution

00:22:04it's the same

00:22:05that we have seen over the years

00:22:06in Barcelona

00:22:06in Berlin

00:22:07and this

00:22:08this thing here

00:22:09it is theorized

00:22:10it's a script

00:22:12it's a script

00:22:13it is an emulative act

00:22:14it's an inspiration

00:22:16it is an emulative act

00:22:38which is a phenomenon here

00:22:39totally modern

00:22:40but he goes fishing

00:22:41in that thing there

00:22:43the sister

00:22:43At that time

00:22:45time is a tyrant

00:22:46time is a tyrant

00:22:47because there are so many topics

00:22:48that we want to deal with

00:22:49we will also talk about it soon

00:22:50from Garlasco

00:22:51this is a day

00:22:51very particular

00:22:53full of twists and turns

00:22:54with regard to

00:22:54not only the investigations

00:22:55but also the stracichi

00:22:57judicial

00:22:58but there is another story

00:22:59which is very important to us

00:23:00that of a father

00:23:01and of a mother

00:23:02that for many days

00:23:04for more than 180 days

00:23:06they ask continuously

00:23:08repeatedly

00:23:09to be able to hug again

00:23:10their children

00:23:11in the background

00:23:12even contrasts

00:23:14between the ANM

00:23:16between the judiciary

00:23:18the Ministry of Justice

00:23:19among social workers

00:23:21lawyers

00:23:22psychologists

00:23:23and so on

00:23:24and in between

00:23:25these children

00:23:26the children of the house

00:23:27in the woods

00:23:27listen

00:23:30Nathan and God

00:23:31we have brought

00:23:32significant changes

00:23:34to our lives

00:23:35to be present

00:23:36for our children

00:23:37we are busy

00:23:38to raise them

00:23:39in a grounded environment

00:23:40on love

00:23:40stability

00:23:41creativity

00:23:43Health

00:23:43and sense of community

00:23:45our conscious choice

00:23:47to socialize

00:23:48our children

00:23:49it is consistent

00:23:50with the model

00:23:50Italian cultural

00:23:51of the family

00:23:52we offer them

00:23:53the fundamental elements

00:23:55of Italian society

00:23:56including

00:23:56the centrality

00:23:57of the family

00:23:58the priority

00:23:59of emotional bonds

00:24:00deep

00:24:00intense loyalty

00:24:02and the support

00:24:03intergenerational

00:24:04respect

00:24:05to individualism

00:24:06we have chosen

00:24:07to educate

00:24:08our children

00:24:08by means

00:24:09homeschooling

00:24:11homeschooling

00:24:12in accordance

00:24:13with Italian law

00:24:14towards which

00:24:15we nourish

00:24:16deep respect

00:24:17it is precisely by virtue

00:24:18of this recognition

00:24:19that we have chosen

00:24:20Italy

00:24:20as a country

00:24:21in which to grow

00:24:22our children

00:24:23our eldest daughter

00:24:24he supported

00:24:25his first exam

00:24:26annual

00:24:26in Castiglione

00:24:27June 14th

00:24:282024

00:24:29it was examined

00:24:30by four teachers

00:24:32who considered it

00:24:32competent

00:24:33for his age

00:24:34having overcome

00:24:35with a positive outcome

00:24:36all parts

00:24:37expected

00:24:37of the evaluation

00:24:39after discussing

00:24:40our intention

00:24:41to involve

00:24:41even our twins

00:24:43on the same path

00:24:44in the future

00:24:44the teachers

00:24:45they confirmed

00:24:46appropriateness

00:24:47to give choice

00:24:48for our children

00:24:49and we were left

00:24:50very satisfied

00:24:51of the positive relationship

00:24:52established

00:24:53with the teachers

00:24:54and with the institute

00:24:54we believe we have acted

00:24:56in the best interest

00:24:57of our children

00:24:58protecting them

00:24:59from school bullying

00:25:01from cyberbullying

00:25:02from childhood depression

00:25:04from anxiety

00:25:05and unfortunately

00:25:06from juvenile suicide

00:25:07we have consciously

00:25:09created for them

00:25:10a rich context

00:25:12of social exposure

00:25:13positive

00:25:13with peers

00:25:14and adults

00:25:15we have always been

00:25:16open and available

00:25:17towards

00:25:18of the services offered

00:25:19from the Italian health system

00:25:21we have never been

00:25:22against medical interventions

00:25:24nor have we ever avoided

00:25:25health care

00:25:26luckily

00:25:27we didn't have to

00:25:29frequent

00:25:29of medical assistance

00:25:30our three children

00:25:31have always enjoyed

00:25:32in excellent health

00:25:33and well-being

00:25:34by virtue

00:25:35of lifestyle

00:25:36adopted

00:25:36and our plan

00:25:37parental

00:25:39At that time

00:25:40welcome in the meantime

00:25:42to Piero Colaprico

00:25:43which is connected

00:25:45at this moment

00:25:45from Venice

00:25:46Good evening Piero Colaprico

00:25:49Thank you

00:25:50you heard

00:25:51this long message

00:25:53of the parents

00:25:54what they say

00:25:54we did it

00:25:55everything possible

00:25:56we have

00:25:58made available

00:25:59all that

00:25:59that we could put

00:26:00we believe in Italy

00:26:02in this country

00:26:02we want our children

00:26:03grow on condition

00:26:05how to say

00:26:05that they respect

00:26:06our thoughts

00:26:08they are willing

00:26:09to move

00:26:10in the house

00:26:10that the municipality

00:26:11he made available to them

00:26:12pending

00:26:13that their new home

00:26:14be put

00:26:15we can say

00:26:16finally

00:26:17in accordance with the law

00:26:18but in the meantime the children

00:26:19they are still far away

00:26:22Piero

00:26:23it seems to me

00:26:24a significant one

00:26:25step forward

00:26:26It seems to me a significant

00:26:27step forward

00:26:28and I think it depends

00:26:29also from the fact

00:26:30that after having changed

00:26:32two lawyers

00:26:32the new lawyer

00:26:34he said

00:26:34mediation

00:26:36it also happens far away

00:26:37from the courthouses

00:26:39this in my opinion

00:26:40mark this change

00:26:41in step

00:26:41why this family

00:26:43which up to now

00:26:44I think so

00:26:45to have been

00:26:46a little unruly

00:26:49to have moved

00:26:50in a manner

00:26:50heavy

00:26:51defending

00:26:52those who were

00:26:53their principles

00:26:54it seems to me

00:26:54that he is going

00:26:56in the direction

00:26:57that everyone

00:26:58they were hoping

00:26:58for the good

00:26:59of the children

00:26:59Meaning what

00:27:00mediate

00:27:01say

00:27:01we respect

00:27:03All

00:27:03and start

00:27:04to do

00:27:04what

00:27:05we had already said

00:27:06what they should have done

00:27:08that is, to leave

00:27:09the ruin

00:27:09where they lived

00:27:10in the woods

00:27:11fix it

00:27:12and go

00:27:13in that house

00:27:13which he had offered

00:27:14the municipality

00:27:14so it seems to me

00:27:15that they are giving

00:27:16of the signals

00:27:17extremely positive

00:27:18we'll have to see

00:27:19then the ratings

00:27:20what they will do

00:27:21how they will be

00:27:22Here you are

00:27:23Monica

00:27:24you don't agree

00:27:24hand

00:27:25I don't agree

00:27:26on the fact that now

00:27:26this is a tug of war

00:27:28In my opinion

00:27:28very sterile

00:27:29in the sense that

00:27:30all this

00:27:31also mediation

00:27:32Surely

00:27:33this family

00:27:34has an approach

00:27:35cultural

00:27:35which can be

00:27:36even if not shared

00:27:37for example

00:27:37from me too

00:27:38I would never let live

00:27:39my children

00:27:39in this way

00:27:40but this one

00:27:41it's a real criticality

00:27:42what were they

00:27:43the critical issues

00:27:44of these children

00:27:45we live

00:27:45in a country

00:27:46where even

00:27:47we rightly want

00:27:48to re-educate

00:27:48the assassins

00:27:49the people who are

00:27:50in prison

00:27:50we have

00:27:51this justice

00:27:52who wants to insert

00:27:54but this family

00:27:55how

00:27:56is integrated

00:27:56these parents

00:27:57how they were helped

00:27:59these children

00:27:59how they were helped

00:28:01we offered him

00:28:02six months

00:28:03locked up

00:28:04in a structure

00:28:05without nature

00:28:05without games

00:28:06without socialization

00:28:08without sports

00:28:09without a real one

00:28:10Also

00:28:11let's say

00:28:12alternative

00:28:13scholastic

00:28:14and then

00:28:15What

00:28:15we proposed

00:28:16we meet again

00:28:17after six months

00:28:18in a situation

00:28:19even more critical

00:28:20maybe from the beginning

00:28:21then so critical

00:28:22that the professor

00:28:23Cantelmi

00:28:24the psychologist

00:28:25Martina Aiello

00:28:26what do they say

00:28:27just today

00:28:28they say

00:28:28they tell a little

00:28:30what was

00:28:31the meeting

00:28:32with psychologists

00:28:33of the three children

00:28:35and they say

00:28:36during that access

00:28:38the eldest daughter

00:28:39she was fucked

00:28:40in tears

00:28:40in front of the experts

00:28:41formulating the spontaneous declaration

00:28:43I want to go home

00:28:44so we

00:28:44director

00:28:45we have to imagine

00:28:46director Borgonovo

00:28:48we have to

00:28:48imagine

00:28:49What

00:28:50a little girl

00:28:51eight years old

00:28:51who bursts into tears

00:28:52and basically says

00:28:53I want to go home

00:28:54let's close this parenthesis

00:28:57while the little brother

00:28:59he showed strong agitation

00:29:01psychomotor

00:29:01and the sister

00:29:02he took refuge

00:29:03in a silence

00:29:05absolute

00:29:06the party's experts

00:29:08they underline how

00:29:08the technical consultancy

00:29:09have totally ignored

00:29:10the traumatic effects

00:29:11disorganizing

00:29:12of the uprooting

00:29:13forced by the natural core

00:29:15and the next one

00:29:16to the ancestor

00:29:17sudden

00:29:18from the mother

00:29:18but I invite everyone

00:29:19to read

00:29:20not all 320 pages

00:29:22of the relationship

00:29:23by Professor Cantelmi

00:29:25and Dr. Aiello

00:29:26the first 20 are enough

00:29:27the first 20

00:29:29list 15

00:29:30very serious critical issues

00:29:32which are written

00:29:33in technical language

00:29:34but I'll summarize three of them

00:29:36very fast

00:29:37the first is that

00:29:38the children

00:29:38they were not heard

00:29:40from the psychiatrist

00:29:42who had to

00:29:43to check

00:29:44parenting skills

00:29:45of these parents

00:29:46that is, we do everything

00:29:47the children's names

00:29:47but the children

00:29:48we don't hear them

00:29:49they don't speak

00:29:50No?

00:29:51they are heard

00:29:51by whom?

00:29:52from the psychologist

00:29:53which he published

00:29:53posts on Facebook

00:29:54against them

00:29:55it was not held

00:29:57on account

00:29:57because there isn't

00:29:58in the expertise

00:29:59all damages

00:30:00that these children

00:30:00they can have

00:30:01from the separation

00:30:02that are adequately

00:30:03motivated by Professor Cantelmi

00:30:05we also discover

00:30:06that the two people

00:30:07which they must evaluate

00:30:08these children

00:30:08they have no experience

00:30:10with minors

00:30:10then I ask myself

00:30:12who is involved in this story?

00:30:13he was unruly

00:30:15he was hostile

00:30:16or gave a rating

00:30:18superficial

00:30:18because I think

00:30:19that the institutions

00:30:20what they do

00:30:21so good

00:30:22in other cases

00:30:23they don't have the task

00:30:24to go against

00:30:25the families

00:30:26they have the task

00:30:26to support them

00:30:27if there are any critical issues

00:30:29and here is how to cure

00:30:30the flu

00:30:31in all this

00:30:33Saturday

00:30:33by Saturday

00:30:34Friday

00:30:35tomorrow Saturday

00:30:36should arrive

00:30:37even the famous one

00:30:37relation

00:30:38of the inspectors

00:30:40of the ministry

00:30:41of justice

00:30:42the NMS

00:30:42it's already moved

00:30:43he reported

00:30:44the serious

00:30:45very serious

00:30:45I don't know if we have it

00:30:46the press release

00:30:47of the NMS

00:30:48of the National Association

00:30:49Magistrates

00:30:49we don't have it

00:30:50All right

00:30:50but luckily

00:30:51we have good memories

00:30:52it's a press release

00:30:53very very hard

00:30:54in which

00:30:55you see we have it

00:30:56then why do you tell me no?

00:30:57come on let's see it

00:30:59here it is

00:31:00we express our concern

00:31:01for the modalities

00:31:02with which we are continuing

00:31:03the ministry's inspection

00:31:05at the court

00:31:06for minors

00:31:07in particular

00:31:07reawakens perplexity

00:31:08that the inspection activity

00:31:10it has spread

00:31:12to development

00:31:13of a procedure

00:31:14still in progress

00:31:15with possible repercussions

00:31:16on the delicate balances

00:31:17between administrative control

00:31:18and function

00:31:20jurisdictional

00:31:20the rest

00:31:21In short

00:31:22asks

00:31:23the intervention

00:31:26of those who ask

00:31:27the intervention

00:31:29but I want

00:31:30the superior council

00:31:32judiciary

00:31:32that intervenes

00:31:33but I

00:31:34Truly

00:31:35I'm very sorry

00:31:36to read this thing

00:31:37because I ask myself

00:31:39I couldn't find it

00:31:39for what reason

00:31:40Meaning what

00:31:41here

00:31:42We see

00:31:43all these subjects

00:31:44involved

00:31:44that they should have

00:31:46at heart

00:31:46only and exclusively

00:31:47well-being

00:31:48of these children

00:31:48why do they get dirty

00:31:50in their positions

00:31:51I mean, what's wrong with that?

00:31:52if it is evaluated

00:31:53a procedure

00:31:54the clash is there

00:31:54it's a head-on collision

00:31:56on one hand there is

00:31:57the court

00:31:58of the Eagle

00:31:59for minors

00:32:00on the one hand there are

00:32:01the experts

00:32:02nominated

00:32:03the consultants

00:32:04on the other side

00:32:05there is the family

00:32:06we can all lower the tension

00:32:08I know

00:32:08but it's been months

00:32:09and this is said

00:32:10we have advertising

00:32:12then we go back again

00:32:13with our guests

00:32:14I see with the aprico

00:32:14shaking his head

00:32:30then we came back

00:32:31live

00:32:32the children

00:32:32of the house in the woods

00:32:33within a couple of days

00:32:34the relationship

00:32:35of the inspectors

00:32:36sent by the ministry

00:32:37of justice

00:32:38the very hard note

00:32:39of the ANM

00:32:40which even asks

00:32:41an intervention by the CSM

00:32:42for protection

00:32:43of their colleagues

00:32:44deemed

00:32:45apparently

00:32:46from the ANM

00:32:47in short, at risk

00:32:48in this situation

00:32:50Monica?

00:32:50No, I say

00:32:51why can't it be sent

00:32:53an inspector

00:32:53to see if everything

00:32:55it's in order

00:32:56that is, the ministry

00:32:57I think he has

00:32:57absolutely

00:32:58this possibility

00:32:59to be able to do it

00:33:00and it's right to do so too

00:33:01because it's a situation

00:33:02so delicate

00:33:03where have they been

00:33:04however highlighted

00:33:05of the critical issues

00:33:07in the work

00:33:07it's right to delve deeper

00:33:08but for the protection of all

00:33:09they are discussing the modalities

00:33:10that we don't know though

00:33:11yes, I agree

00:33:13he will answer now

00:33:14to the CSM

00:33:14It's funny to think

00:33:16I don't want to take

00:33:17as always

00:33:18no position

00:33:19but a question

00:33:20I'll do it myself

00:33:21we can really think

00:33:22that the inspectors

00:33:23of the ministry

00:33:24they make a mistake

00:33:25so crude

00:33:26that is, they intervene

00:33:27with prerogatives

00:33:28that they are not

00:33:29attributed by law

00:33:30I hope not

00:33:31but the same question

00:33:32that I really do it

00:33:33we can think

00:33:33that the court

00:33:34of the Eagle

00:33:35act in a situation

00:33:36of the genre

00:33:37without having any motivation

00:33:38to take these children away

00:33:40no no no

00:33:41we've said it many times

00:33:42no but they are two different things

00:33:43we've said it many times

00:33:45No?

00:33:45the court of L'Aquila

00:33:46it acts because it is there

00:33:47a relationship

00:33:48of social workers

00:33:49so they notice

00:33:50a danger to children

00:33:51and take them away

00:33:52but this danger

00:33:53for children

00:33:54author's director

00:33:54but it's still present

00:33:56it's still active

00:33:57but why don't we give it back to him?

00:33:58these children

00:33:58also to see

00:33:59if he was present

00:34:00we entered

00:34:00in a situation

00:34:01so tangled

00:34:02that at this point

00:34:03we don't give him any more

00:34:03but why tangled?

00:34:04we don't know anymore

00:34:05and the ones we do

00:34:06we don't give him any more

00:34:07on specific request

00:34:09on specific request

00:34:11they run

00:34:11and no but

00:34:12Excuse me

00:34:12on specific request

00:34:14answer

00:34:15how to say direct

00:34:16they are in danger

00:34:17these children

00:34:18hand

00:34:19the parents

00:34:19director

00:34:20in your opinion

00:34:21I'm at the moment

00:34:22a danger to children

00:34:24I believe that

00:34:26if they took them away

00:34:27Yes

00:34:27No

00:34:27if they took them away

00:34:29before there were

00:34:30of the reasons

00:34:31Today

00:34:31the question is today

00:34:33today we don't know

00:34:33let's hope they do

00:34:34a path

00:34:35parents too

00:34:36what kind of danger

00:34:37Dr. Viola

00:34:38I hear you all quickly

00:34:39Dr. Viola

00:34:39what kind of dangers

00:34:40they run today

00:34:41these children

00:34:42they can run today

00:34:43these children

00:34:44let's put ourselves in their shoes

00:34:45whose responsibility is it?

00:34:47today of these children

00:34:48the danger they run

00:34:49is to lose

00:34:49completely

00:34:50the possibility

00:34:51of a normal attachment

00:34:52to parental figures

00:34:54which they need

00:34:54to grow

00:34:55that is, we put

00:34:56these children

00:34:57in a situation

00:34:57certainly traumatic

00:34:59the first one

00:35:00it had to be corrected

00:35:01but the one now

00:35:02it's definitely traumatic

00:35:03Cantermi's report

00:35:04he says it very well

00:35:05but we must also remember

00:35:07that time

00:35:08here millet

00:35:08it is a fundamental factor

00:35:09we can do it

00:35:10all inspections

00:35:11what we want

00:35:11but these children

00:35:12they are sick

00:35:13Now

00:35:13they need

00:35:14Now

00:35:14to be reunited

00:35:16with the family

00:35:16at this point

00:35:16there is already too much time

00:35:18no, there's already too much time

00:35:19Monica

00:35:20no but I also say why

00:35:21even if they gave them tomorrow

00:35:22to parents

00:35:23they would start anyway

00:35:24of the other problems

00:35:25why come back too

00:35:26to the life before

00:35:27or anyway

00:35:28insertion into the family

00:35:29already in itself

00:35:30it becomes problematic again

00:35:31they are getting equipped

00:35:32for this too

00:35:33Exactly

00:35:34they are coming back

00:35:35excuse me, may I?

00:35:35to say one last thing

00:35:36the question of reintegration

00:35:38it's true that it's a problem

00:35:39but the more we prolong

00:35:41the distance

00:35:41and the more serious we make it

00:35:42absolutely

00:35:43not only

00:35:44but the parents

00:35:45they also understood

00:35:46those that are

00:35:47their critical issues

00:35:48and they're working on it

00:35:49these children

00:35:50but

00:35:50it was not taken into account

00:35:53not even reality

00:35:53where they came from

00:35:54the contradiction of the operators

00:35:56is this

00:35:56who took them

00:35:57saying they had

00:35:57certain characteristics

00:35:59a bit like

00:36:00Jane and Tarzan

00:36:01and they ignored them

00:36:02completely

00:36:03thus creating

00:36:04a trauma

00:36:05on trauma

00:36:05I'm just wondering one thing

00:36:06it is possible

00:36:07it is admissible

00:36:08human error

00:36:09or not

00:36:10because we have

00:36:11of the institutions

00:36:12that can't be wrong

00:36:14never

00:36:15and then in front

00:36:16to a mistake

00:36:17it's more important

00:36:19to defend oneself

00:36:20the work

00:36:20that not

00:36:21children's health

00:36:22or from this stuff

00:36:24we're not getting out of this

00:36:24because that's the point

00:36:25that is, here they took care of

00:36:27a cold

00:36:27with chemotherapy

00:36:28when faced with small critical issues

00:36:30they took the children away

00:36:31it can be admitted

00:36:32that maybe there was

00:36:33a slight disproportion

00:36:35and take a step back

00:36:37only the court can do it

00:36:38Lawyer Macri

00:36:39we can hypothesize some times

00:36:40we've done it many times

00:36:41we have always been wrong

00:36:42and so no

00:36:43in my opinion no

00:36:44It's difficult to predict the timing

00:36:45but we got here

00:36:47from a situation

00:36:47without a doubt of criticality

00:36:49why we get here

00:36:50from a poisoning

00:36:50from mushroom

00:36:51then it seems to me that the mother

00:36:52he refuses

00:36:53of the use of a feeding tube

00:36:55but it's not true

00:36:56but that said

00:36:57In my opinion

00:36:58from a criticality

00:37:00we are moving on to irreparable damage

00:37:01that is, it was implemented

00:37:02a drastic solution

00:37:03and then I ask myself

00:37:04we should go and take action

00:37:06in growing children

00:37:08in families of drug addicts

00:37:10in growing children

00:37:11in the Roma camps

00:37:12and why do we go to get only

00:37:14the children of an Australian family

00:37:17in Italy

00:37:18then if we want to act

00:37:19and apply the law to everyone

00:37:21it's right

00:37:21it's right because there are

00:37:23of duties

00:37:24that families must follow

00:37:25but then

00:37:26let's go get everyone

00:37:27we don't just go and get

00:37:28this single family

00:37:30because in my opinion

00:37:31I feel like saying

00:37:31even a little bit

00:37:32a little weak

00:37:33here in their

00:37:35it's very clear

00:37:36then in the meantime

00:37:37thanks to our guests

00:37:39for being with us

00:37:40they are about to arrive

00:37:41other guests

00:37:42we are about to open the page

00:37:43dedicated to Garlasco

00:37:44because today was a day

00:37:46very particular

00:37:47on one hand we will feel it

00:37:48Joseph's father

00:37:49Joseph Sempio

00:37:50father of Andrea Sempio

00:37:52what does he say?

00:37:52to my son

00:37:53a cowardly act was committed

00:37:55on the other side

00:37:56the K sisters

00:37:57who report

00:37:59for instigation

00:38:00to commit crimes

00:38:01then finalized

00:38:03defamation

00:38:04you heard it

00:38:05the lawyer De Renzi

00:38:06so a lawyer

00:38:07a former investigator

00:38:09of the Carabinieri

00:38:09Marshal Marchetto

00:38:11an envoy

00:38:11of a broadcast

00:38:12television

00:38:12which is the Hyenas

00:38:15initially

00:38:16the agencies

00:38:16they had launched

00:38:17really

00:38:18the association

00:38:18to commit crimes

00:38:19then it was

00:38:19perhaps rethought

00:38:21the hypothesis

00:38:22of crime

00:38:23but that

00:38:23it's a crime

00:38:24really a little bit

00:38:25particular

00:38:26In short

00:38:26a conspiracy

00:38:27against the

00:38:28family

00:38:29K

00:38:30in particular

00:38:30against the sisters

00:38:32K

00:38:32but there is not only

00:38:34these aspects

00:38:35somehow

00:38:36marginal

00:38:37but important

00:38:38then there is also

00:38:39the culprit

00:38:40Perfect

00:38:40Alberto Stasi

00:38:42with his lawyer

00:38:43him and his lawyer

00:38:44that come

00:38:45intercepted

00:38:46and his lawyer

00:38:47Professor Giarda

00:38:47what does he say?

00:38:48a serious one

00:38:50wound

00:38:51to one of the pillars

00:38:52of democracy

00:38:53many details

00:38:55that don't come back

00:38:55in the investigations

00:38:56up to even

00:38:57these four

00:38:58hair

00:38:59hair on the sink

00:39:00from which it then starts

00:39:01the investigation

00:39:02of the prosecution

00:39:03from Pavia

00:39:04not only on this aspect

00:39:05but it was an aspect

00:39:06important

00:39:07in many

00:39:08they asked themselves

00:39:09over the years

00:39:09but what happened to them?

00:39:10this hair

00:39:11and we

00:39:12we confess it

00:39:13in our

00:39:14infinite ignorance

00:39:16never having

00:39:16the granite certainties

00:39:17we were convinced

00:39:19of the fact that they had been

00:39:20somehow

00:39:21findings

00:39:22and excluded

00:39:23but the truth

00:39:23probably

00:39:24it's another one

00:39:26and in all of this

00:39:26Today

00:39:27she met

00:39:28the defense

00:39:28by Andrea Sempio

00:39:30to take stock

00:39:31on the situation

00:39:32listen

00:39:33Francesca Crini

00:39:34the shoes

00:39:36the wiretaps

00:39:37the consultancy

00:39:37personological

00:39:38these are

00:39:39three points

00:39:40that the defense

00:39:41by Andrea Sempio

00:39:42is looking for

00:39:42to dismantle

00:39:43today in Reggio Emilia

00:39:45in the study

00:39:45of the lawyer

00:39:46Liborio Cataliotti

00:39:47a new meeting

00:39:48of the defensive pool

00:39:50duration almost

00:39:50five hours

00:39:51together with them

00:39:53the suspect too

00:39:54Andrea Sempio

00:39:54arrived this morning

00:39:56at 11.30

00:39:57together with the lawyer

00:39:58Angela Taccia

00:39:59how are you with your mood

00:40:00how are you approaching it?

00:40:01at this moment

00:40:02just as you see me

00:40:04do you still believe

00:40:05in management

00:40:05Andrea

00:40:07lawyers and consultants

00:40:08at work

00:40:09to compare

00:40:10the results

00:40:10obtained

00:40:11from various consultancies

00:40:12necessary

00:40:13to draft

00:40:14the defense brief

00:40:15the defense

00:40:16tip

00:40:16to weaken

00:40:17the 21 clues

00:40:18of the prosecution

00:40:19from Pavia

00:40:19in particular

00:40:20the footprint

00:40:21of the shoe

00:40:22Balls

00:40:22we are looking for

00:40:23to draft

00:40:24our relationship

00:40:25technique

00:40:26that if

00:40:27will be valued

00:40:28from an expert opinion

00:40:30and then

00:40:30We will see

00:40:31because if

00:40:31the foot

00:40:32by Andrea Sempio

00:40:33it is scientifically

00:40:35and technically

00:40:36and precisely

00:40:38concretely

00:40:39incompatible

00:40:40with that footprint

00:40:41of shoe

00:40:42the process ends

00:40:43because for you

00:40:44at the moment it is like this

00:40:44that foot

00:40:45it is not compatible

00:40:46it is not compatible

00:40:47Andrea Sempio's foot

00:40:48with those footprints

00:40:49and then there are

00:40:50all the interceptions

00:40:51that legal

00:40:52through them

00:40:53consultants

00:40:54they are rewriting

00:40:55some would not be

00:40:56understandable

00:40:57others instead

00:40:58they would have been

00:40:59misinterpreted

00:41:01and finally

00:41:01the expertise

00:41:02personological

00:41:03in response

00:41:04to the relationship

00:41:05of the carabinieri

00:41:05of the RACIS

00:41:06on the profile

00:41:07psychological

00:41:08by Andrea Sempio

00:41:09which would have highlighted

00:41:10an innate ability

00:41:11to lie

00:41:12of the suspect

00:41:13although

00:41:14both

00:41:15they wouldn't be

00:41:15usable

00:41:16within

00:41:17of a possible

00:41:18process

00:41:18we wanted

00:41:19to compare

00:41:20our consultants

00:41:22Truly

00:41:23to do

00:41:24the tip

00:41:24to the pins

00:41:25because each one

00:41:26he already had it

00:41:27forwarded

00:41:27the draft

00:41:28of one's own

00:41:30relation

00:41:30but we wanted

00:41:31that each one

00:41:32take note

00:41:34of the relationship

00:41:35of the other

00:41:36above all

00:41:36where the theme

00:41:37were interdisciplinary

00:41:39us

00:41:40of our consultancy

00:41:41we will talk

00:41:41Very

00:41:42Very

00:41:43strong

00:41:47and I believe that equally

00:41:49you think so

00:41:49the prosecutor's office

00:41:50from Pavia

00:41:50welcome

00:41:51to Luca Fazzo

00:41:52prestigious signature

00:41:54of the newspaper

00:41:55the general

00:41:55Luciano Garofano

00:41:57Ilenia Petracalvina

00:41:58sent

00:41:59Rai

00:41:59for many years

00:42:00followed

00:42:01from the very beginning

00:42:01the story

00:42:02from Garlasco

00:42:03what to say

00:42:03by Umberto Brindani

00:42:04director of Gente

00:42:06welcome

00:42:06to the doctor

00:42:07Umberto

00:42:08Dario Ridaelli

00:42:09who is a criminalist

00:42:10consultant

00:42:10of the family

00:42:11Poggi

00:42:12prestigious signature

00:42:13of the newspaper

00:42:14Rita Cavallaro

00:42:15our psychiatrist

00:42:16the doctor

00:42:17Sara Viola

00:42:18and then there's the lawyer

00:42:19Antonio De Rensis

00:42:20that we discovered today

00:42:22is part of

00:42:23no more

00:42:24of an association

00:42:25to commit crimes

00:42:25because initially

00:42:26had been demolished

00:42:27the agency

00:42:27with the K sisters

00:42:29who report

00:42:30an association

00:42:31to commit crimes

00:42:31then it was

00:42:32changed

00:42:34downgraded

00:42:34it has changed

00:42:36the possible boss

00:42:36of imputation

00:42:38she

00:42:38moreover

00:42:39at this moment

00:42:40he is the only lawyer

00:42:41No?

00:42:42Yes

00:42:43He takes off his hat

00:42:45from

00:42:47possible suspect

00:42:48hypothetical suspect

00:42:50let's say

00:42:51lawyer

00:42:51what crime is it?

00:42:53Well I

00:42:54since I am

00:42:55a person

00:42:56and I'm proud

00:42:57to be humble

00:42:58today I am

00:42:59compared

00:43:00with some magistrates

00:43:02important

00:43:03people who give

00:43:04more than twenty years

00:43:05they practice

00:43:06this function

00:43:08and they are all

00:43:10in search

00:43:11of this

00:43:12case in point

00:43:12of crime

00:43:13initially

00:43:14when it appeared

00:43:15the term

00:43:15association

00:43:16I said

00:43:17Well

00:43:17there are three of us

00:43:18with one

00:43:19I have never had

00:43:20a contact

00:43:21that the marshal

00:43:21Marchetto

00:43:23I don't know how

00:43:24they will build

00:43:25this association

00:43:26to commit crimes

00:43:27Then

00:43:28it has decreased

00:43:30the hypothesis

00:43:30now it is

00:43:31incitement

00:43:32to defamation

00:43:34it's enough

00:43:36difficult

00:43:37explain it

00:43:38Certain

00:43:39the assumption

00:43:40is that

00:43:42the recipients

00:43:43are gods

00:43:44brain damaged

00:43:45Why

00:43:46and of course

00:43:48there aren't any

00:43:49mine is one

00:43:49provocation

00:43:50because he sees

00:43:51if I

00:43:52I'm talking to

00:43:53the director

00:43:54Brindani

00:43:55And

00:43:56I'm telling him

00:43:57an opinion

00:43:59any one

00:44:01any one

00:44:02idea

00:44:02in a context

00:44:04private

00:44:04And

00:44:05the director

00:44:06Brindani

00:44:07he takes it

00:44:08own

00:44:09without any

00:44:10beam

00:44:10if

00:44:11the problem

00:44:12it's the director's

00:44:13Brindani

00:44:14Obviously

00:44:14all this

00:44:15it didn't happen

00:44:16but do you know what it is?

00:44:17the great

00:44:17advantage

00:44:18is that you

00:44:19all his

00:44:21colleagues

00:44:21present here

00:44:22she

00:44:23all the others

00:44:25conductors

00:44:26television

00:44:26they will be

00:44:28the main ones

00:44:29witnesses

00:44:30of this

00:44:31shameful

00:44:32hoax

00:44:33that concerns me

00:44:34why you

00:44:35you know

00:44:36if I have ever seen you

00:44:37forced to think

00:44:39something

00:44:39you

00:44:40you know

00:44:41if I have ever seen you

00:44:42addressed

00:44:42you

00:44:43you know

00:44:44if I have ever seen you

00:44:45asked to write

00:44:46something

00:44:46that it could be

00:44:48convenient for me

00:44:49she

00:44:49doctor

00:44:50Petra Calvina

00:44:51can say

00:44:52if I have ever had them

00:44:52requested by Giletti

00:44:53to say something

00:44:54convenient for me

00:44:55you, Dr. Fazzo

00:44:56can say

00:44:57if I

00:44:58have I ever

00:44:58asked

00:44:58to write

00:44:59something

00:44:59but

00:45:01but

00:45:03before

00:45:03get into the merits

00:45:05of what happened

00:45:06July 13th

00:45:07let me tell you something

00:45:09to its viewers

00:45:11Now

00:45:11I don't look at the camera

00:45:13because I don't want to be

00:45:15too rhetorical

00:45:16now this becomes

00:45:17something between me

00:45:18and the lady

00:45:19Stefania Cappa

00:45:20and see

00:45:21this evening

00:45:22before coming

00:45:23I spoke

00:45:24with my uncle

00:45:25who raised me

00:45:26and that

00:45:27is dead

00:45:29to save life

00:45:30to a child

00:45:30I don't have his courage

00:45:31but I did it to him

00:45:32a promise

00:45:34I will demonstrate

00:45:34to the lady

00:45:35Stefania Cappa

00:45:36that in Italy

00:45:37there are many people

00:45:38who are not afraid

00:45:40of the names

00:45:40and much less

00:45:42of surnames

00:45:43I

00:45:44I will go

00:45:45all the way

00:45:45Now

00:45:46it's a question

00:45:47between me

00:45:47and she

00:45:48Obviously

00:45:49with the lawyers

00:45:50who will assist us

00:45:51in the middle

00:45:52this is normal

00:45:53it's a question

00:45:54judicial

00:45:55but now

00:45:56they are not done

00:45:57prisoners

00:46:01was I direct?

00:46:03it was a lot

00:46:04very direct

00:46:05I'm glad to hear it

00:46:05At that time

00:46:07the only note

00:46:08Yes

00:46:09that I allow myself

00:46:10to do

00:46:11I say this because

00:46:12it's something that

00:46:15I try to say it

00:46:16in a manner

00:46:17let's say more

00:46:18improve

00:46:18can say everything

00:46:19no no no

00:46:20At that time

00:46:20in the emphasis

00:46:21even emotional

00:46:22sometimes

00:46:22we say

00:46:23of words

00:46:24that I am not

00:46:25completely

00:46:25appropriate

00:46:26let's do it like this

00:46:27I'll do it

00:46:28the first

00:46:29mea culpa

00:46:29sometimes

00:46:30it's an expression

00:46:31that I used

00:46:31Me too

00:46:32and of this

00:46:32I'm sorry about that

00:46:33I celebrate the exo

00:46:34it refers to people

00:46:35that they have suffered

00:46:36a trauma

00:46:37I know there is

00:46:37I don't know

00:46:38he is a lawyer

00:46:39Renzi

00:46:39I apologize

00:46:40humbly

00:46:41No

00:46:41I made a premise

00:46:42in slang

00:46:44daily

00:46:45it can happen

00:46:46I apologize

00:46:46this thing

00:46:47a person

00:46:48who does not discern

00:46:49I humbly ask

00:46:50Excuse me

00:46:50thank you

00:46:52because we have

00:46:52I humbly ask

00:46:54Excuse me

00:46:54I hope it is understood

00:46:55the suffering

00:46:56mine today

00:46:57anger

00:46:58the indignation

00:46:59I

00:47:00I'm next to you

00:47:02of many people

00:47:03who suffer

00:47:04I meant

00:47:05use a term

00:47:06for whom

00:47:07he has no capacity

00:47:08of discernment

00:47:09I ask

00:47:09humbly

00:47:10Excuse me

00:47:10if I did

00:47:11a reference

00:47:12health care

00:47:12but I believe

00:47:13that its viewers

00:47:14they understood

00:47:16what I meant

00:47:17doubt

00:47:17and I made a premise

00:47:18I always talk

00:47:19of carriers

00:47:20of handicap

00:47:21I never use it

00:47:21other words

00:47:22sometimes

00:47:23we use

00:47:23without wanting to

00:47:25humbly

00:47:25I apologize

00:47:26there is no need

00:47:26lawyer De Rensis

00:47:27because it's very clear

00:47:28sometimes

00:47:28we use

00:47:29expressions

00:47:30that I am not

00:47:30today is a day

00:47:31very painful

00:47:32because when

00:47:33a gentleman

00:47:34when a person

00:47:36that does good

00:47:37from the morning

00:47:37in the evening

00:47:38all of those

00:47:39who know me

00:47:40they know it

00:47:40when a person

00:47:41which is priceless

00:47:42is defamed

00:47:43Like this

00:47:44I have never seen

00:47:45a witness

00:47:46I don't know what they're called

00:47:47I never spoke

00:47:48with a witness

00:47:49I never spoke

00:47:50with Marshal Marchetto

00:47:51when we were guests

00:47:53in broadcasts

00:47:54while respecting it

00:47:55I have always asked

00:47:56not to interact

00:47:57Here you are

00:47:58Today

00:47:59what I read

00:48:00it's very serious

00:48:01then let's do it like this

00:48:02meanwhile

00:48:03director Brindani

00:48:04then we go in though

00:48:05in the live

00:48:06of the episode

00:48:07Attention

00:48:08he will finally tell us

00:48:10what happened

00:48:10July 13th

00:48:11of 2022

00:48:12when she goes out

00:48:13from the prosecutor's office

00:48:14from Pavia

00:48:14having obtained

00:48:15an important victory

00:48:17fundamental

00:48:18together with Giada

00:48:19obviously together

00:48:20to the lawyer Giada Bocellari

00:48:22an important victory

00:48:24because she

00:48:26at that moment

00:48:26gets something

00:48:27which had been denied

00:48:29Lawyer Bocellari

00:48:30and she

00:48:30for a long time

00:48:31twice

00:48:32twice

00:48:33it's a day

00:48:34very important

00:48:34let's also specify this

00:48:36Doctor Infante

00:48:37at that moment

00:48:38Alberto Stasi

00:48:40Giada Bocellari

00:48:41my studio

00:48:43and Alessandro De Giuseppe

00:48:44throughout Italy

00:48:46in addition to the prosecutor's office

00:48:48from Pavia

00:48:48they knew that I

00:48:50he was the lawyer

00:48:50by Alberto Stasi

00:48:51there was no one

00:48:53that he knew

00:48:54we can also

00:48:55at this point

00:48:56Excuse me

00:48:56let's take advantage

00:48:57then we go in though

00:48:58then in detail

00:48:59of the investigations

00:49:00of the evidence

00:49:01missing

00:49:01of those disappeared

00:49:02we want to tell

00:49:04briefly

00:49:05like her

00:49:05he arrives

00:49:06to support

00:49:09thank you

00:49:10because this one too

00:49:11this one too

00:49:12chronology

00:49:13and narration

00:49:14will undo

00:49:15the hoaxes

00:49:16that I read

00:49:17these days

00:49:17see

00:49:19Giada Bocellari

00:49:21was facing

00:49:22a tiring one

00:49:24appeal

00:49:24to the ECHR

00:49:25and together

00:49:27to another

00:49:28professional

00:49:28then it happened

00:49:30a fact

00:49:31for which the other

00:49:32professional

00:49:32there was no more

00:49:33Giada was very

00:49:34busy

00:49:34he had so many

00:49:36things to do

00:49:36and he confided

00:49:38with Alessandro

00:49:39and he said

00:49:40but if I could

00:49:41find someone

00:49:42that helps me

00:49:42him

00:49:43Alexander

00:49:43Joseph

00:49:45him

00:49:45that I say it

00:49:46to everyone

00:49:47it's one of mine

00:49:48dearest friend

00:49:50participate

00:49:50at my parties

00:49:51birthday

00:49:51as well as

00:49:52of the magistrates

00:49:53and other professionals

00:49:54no but I say it

00:49:56because my friendship

00:49:57with him

00:49:57must be

00:49:57the light of the sun

00:49:58he told him

00:49:59I know this

00:50:00I think he's good

00:50:02If you want

00:50:03I'll introduce you to him

00:50:04I met

00:50:04Jade

00:50:05and let it be clear

00:50:07this particular

00:50:08that I'm going to tell you

00:50:09when we go

00:50:11in prison

00:50:12Alberto

00:50:13in a manner

00:50:14very resolute

00:50:15I'm not saying cold

00:50:17but very determined

00:50:18he told me

00:50:19let's be clear

00:50:20one thing

00:50:20lawyer

00:50:21I thank you

00:50:23for the commitment

00:50:24that she

00:50:25will put

00:50:27but she

00:50:28will take care of

00:50:28exclusively

00:50:30of the appeal

00:50:31the ECHR

00:50:32will not have

00:50:33nothing to do

00:50:34with

00:50:35the murder

00:50:36of Gallasco

00:50:36I said

00:50:37don't worry

00:50:38we were still giving each other

00:50:39her

00:50:39don't worry

00:50:40doctor

00:50:41I have been

00:50:42called for that

00:50:42Then

00:50:44probably

00:50:45it's my opinion

00:50:46I do not know

00:50:47you have to ask for it

00:50:48to Giada

00:50:48maybe Giada

00:50:49he will have appreciated

00:50:50something

00:50:51And

00:50:52time after

00:50:53he asked me

00:50:54if I wanted

00:50:56give her a hand

00:50:57in this case

00:50:58but I

00:50:58I am called

00:50:59for the ECHR

00:51:00so much so that

00:51:01there are my stamps

00:51:02and my signatures

00:51:03it's another detail

00:51:04that we have revealed

00:51:05this evening

00:51:06we still have to discover

00:51:07for good peace

00:51:08by Brindani

00:51:08we'll do it soon

00:51:09what's happening

00:51:10July 13th

00:51:11of 2022

00:51:13but in the meantime

00:51:14a joke

00:51:15on this

00:51:16on this

00:51:16exposed

00:51:17on this

00:51:18I have to tell you

00:51:19two quick things

00:51:20the first is that

00:51:21for over a year

00:51:23hundreds of people

00:51:25of professionals

00:51:26journalists

00:51:27opinion makers

00:51:28consultants

00:51:29lawyers

00:51:30and so on

00:51:31they speak

00:51:32and they write

00:51:32of this story

00:51:33and I find

00:51:34frankly

00:51:35deeply

00:51:36wrong

00:51:37this kind

00:51:39of offensive

00:51:40that moves

00:51:41everything on the plan

00:51:42of the complaints

00:51:42on the judicial level

00:51:44this frankly

00:51:45I

00:51:45I do not know

00:51:46if it is true

00:51:46a hundred

00:51:47Luca Fazio wrote it

00:51:49with Rita Cavallaro

00:51:50it's a thing

00:51:52what does it do to me

00:51:53I don't want to use

00:51:54bad words

00:51:55let's say that

00:51:56I don't understand it

00:51:56this in general

00:51:58with regard to

00:51:58De Rensis

00:51:59I

00:52:00the first contact

00:52:01that I had

00:52:01with De Rensis

00:52:02it was years ago

00:52:03when he was busy

00:52:04of the case

00:52:05Pantani

00:52:06It is true

00:52:06and we'll talk

00:52:07on the phone

00:52:08me among other things

00:52:09I was still one

00:52:10of those

00:52:10who thought

00:52:11that it was written

00:52:11with a Z

00:52:12to understand each other

00:52:13then I got it

00:52:15found

00:52:16taking care of myself

00:52:17of this story

00:52:18And

00:52:19it's like saying

00:52:20and then

00:52:21I got to know him better

00:52:22but honestly

00:52:24I find

00:52:25more than ridiculous

00:52:26I find

00:52:27offensive

00:52:28that someone

00:52:29you think

00:52:29about me

00:52:30after 42 years

00:52:31by profession

00:52:32and 22 years old

00:52:33as director

00:52:33that he

00:52:34could have helped me

00:52:36manipulate

00:52:37to merge

00:52:38to instigate

00:52:39I don't know

00:52:39what a word

00:52:40what a word

00:52:40you want to use

00:52:41I

00:52:42as far as I'm concerned

00:52:43I find it offensive

00:52:44and I repeat

00:52:44and I'm closing

00:52:45because I already said it

00:52:46other times

00:52:47I confirm it

00:52:48which is the worst

00:52:50interlocutor

00:52:51with which

00:52:51I could have

00:52:52why die

00:52:53if he ever dropped me

00:52:54a piece of news

00:52:55Therefore

00:52:56if of this

00:52:57we are talking

00:52:58I this

00:52:58I can testify

00:53:00Luca Fazzo

00:53:01that with

00:53:02precisely Rita Cavallaro

00:53:03you signed

00:53:04this article

00:53:05that yesterday

00:53:06he announced

00:53:07No?

00:53:08this complaint

00:53:09Look

00:53:10when we have

00:53:11learned with Rita

00:53:12this news

00:53:14Certainly

00:53:14it surprised us a lot

00:53:15Why

00:53:15of complaints

00:53:17the K

00:53:17they have it

00:53:18deposited

00:53:19as you were saying

00:53:19hundreds

00:53:20a

00:53:21exposed

00:53:22of this type

00:53:24for crimes

00:53:24of this gravity

00:53:25and with these

00:53:26three characters

00:53:27not easily

00:53:29connectable

00:53:29all three

00:53:30he left us

00:53:31amazed

00:53:31I

00:53:32what we understood

00:53:33in addition

00:53:33in these hours

00:53:34we understood

00:53:35that they

00:53:36they refer to

00:53:37to a relationship

00:53:38of an agency

00:53:39of investigations

00:53:39and assumed

00:53:41to investigations

00:53:41defensive

00:53:42that I didn't know

00:53:42that they

00:53:43not being part

00:53:44of the process

00:53:44could

00:53:45to investigate

00:53:46defensive

00:53:47which are prepared

00:53:48to deposit

00:53:49the version

00:53:51whole wheat

00:53:52that is how it is

00:53:52full-bodied

00:53:53not to be able to

00:53:53to be tied up

00:53:54to the quarrel

00:53:56telematic

00:53:56Exactly

00:53:57to the quarrel

00:53:58original

00:53:58and above all

00:53:59that in there

00:54:00some things

00:54:01that he said

00:54:02Brindani

00:54:02a little while ago

00:54:03and that is

00:54:04the modalities

00:54:05with which

00:54:06you enter the scene

00:54:08De Rensis

00:54:09in the process

00:54:10They

00:54:11they place them

00:54:12these investigations

00:54:12defensive

00:54:13as far as

00:54:14we understood

00:54:15in the story

00:54:16Pantani

00:54:16but the fact

00:54:17that they have

00:54:17dedicated

00:54:18time

00:54:19and attention

00:54:19how about

00:54:20the experience

00:54:21Of

00:54:21No

00:54:22I did not understand

00:54:23Excuse me

00:54:23what does it have to do with it?

00:54:24Pantani

00:54:24Now

00:54:24I didn't understand it

00:54:25me neither

00:54:26but I know

00:54:26that a passage

00:54:29consistent

00:54:30of the complaint

00:54:32is dedicated

00:54:33to rebuild

00:54:33the modalities

00:54:34with which

00:54:35the lawyer

00:54:36De Rensis

00:54:36enter the

00:54:37defense

00:54:38which then

00:54:39that's it

00:54:39In summary

00:54:41that's it

00:54:42that the lawyer

00:54:43Boccellari

00:54:44for example

00:54:44I believe this

00:54:45I can say it

00:54:46he said it

00:54:48personally

00:54:48I also believe

00:54:49publicly

00:54:50he needs

00:54:50of a help

00:54:51in the formulation

00:54:53of the appeal

00:54:54to the acedu

00:54:55and it comes to him

00:54:56suggested

00:54:57a lawyer

00:54:57he knows the lawyer

00:54:59De Rensis

00:54:59evidently

00:55:00they get along well

00:55:01they find harmony

00:55:02that's how it went

00:55:03and then

00:55:03how why

00:55:05This

00:55:06land of

00:55:07the investigation

00:55:08for the hoods

00:55:08I frankly

00:55:09I am not able

00:55:10you can't even imagine it

00:55:11we will read the complaint

00:55:12and we are at three

00:55:13exposed

00:55:14one in Pavia

00:55:15a

00:55:15and two

00:55:17in Milan

00:55:17at the moment

00:55:19All right

00:55:19but everything is fast

00:55:20because then we enter

00:55:21they speak

00:55:21of insinuations

00:55:22against

00:55:23themselves

00:55:24in the sense that

00:55:25I think I understand

00:55:26that the heart

00:55:27of the complaint

00:55:28And

00:55:29in the insinuation

00:55:30which is done

00:55:31of them

00:55:31compared to the machine

00:55:32in quotation marks

00:55:33of the mud

00:55:34that has moved

00:55:35towards them

00:55:36but there was this machine

00:55:37in the mud

00:55:37against the hoods

00:55:38I believe that

00:55:40at some moments

00:55:41we have always said

00:55:42which have never been investigated

00:55:44we remember this

00:55:45from the beginning of this story

00:55:46Today

00:55:46forever

00:55:47but they are referring

00:55:48to journalists

00:55:49YouTuber

00:55:50reporters

00:55:51opinion makers

00:55:52compared to which

00:55:53there was this

00:55:54drift

00:55:55somehow

00:55:56to pull them in

00:55:57the story

00:55:57and this is what I think

00:55:59that it is a little

00:56:00the element

00:56:01which brought

00:56:02which then arises

00:56:03even from afar

00:56:04what today

00:56:04we tell

00:56:05born months ago

00:56:06with what we heard

00:56:09by

00:56:09from the

00:56:11Dr. Abruzzone

00:56:12that he was telling

00:56:13in the fourth degree

00:56:15saying he was getting ready

00:56:16a complaint

00:56:17where somehow

00:56:19there was

00:56:19a bond

00:56:21with the K family

00:56:22which then

00:56:23emana

00:56:24a kind of press release

00:56:26where he will say

00:56:26that they distance themselves

00:56:28they do not file any complaints

00:56:29and we've arrived at today

00:56:30at least I reconstructed

00:56:32these times

00:56:35curiosity

00:56:35because you first

00:56:36that Abruzzo

00:56:38he told

00:56:39that story

00:56:39in which she says

00:56:40I don't believe it

00:56:40it's not all easy

00:56:41but you knew it

00:56:43Stefania K's story

00:56:44of drugs

00:56:46have you ever heard

00:56:47something like that?

00:56:49At that time

00:56:49in official terms

00:56:50No

00:56:50he never talked about it

00:56:52but in confidential terms

00:56:53not even

00:56:54Then

00:56:54I think there are

00:56:55the two levels

00:56:56one thing is information

00:56:58the news

00:56:58everything else

00:56:59then it's something else

00:57:00what can be said

00:57:01how can we say

00:57:02anything else

00:57:03that exists in the world

00:57:04yes but

00:57:05alright

00:57:05but there are four journalists

00:57:06five journalists

00:57:07in the studio this evening

00:57:08and there isn't one

00:57:09that he received

00:57:11this news

00:57:12so something

00:57:12it will mean though

00:57:13I can make a small premise

00:57:15very short

00:57:16because I want to hear

00:57:16then Piero Colaprico

00:57:17that it was the sixth

00:57:18five seconds

00:57:19before I

00:57:21I was born

00:57:22in this case

00:57:24The Hyenas

00:57:25they had already taken care of it

00:57:26of these ladies

00:57:28It seems to me so

00:57:30I saw the videos

00:57:30long

00:57:31so it's not that

00:57:32as with the whole affair

00:57:33from Garlasco

00:57:34it is not that this interest

00:57:35born with me

00:57:36in addition

00:57:37the Financial Police

00:57:39he had asked

00:57:40to do activities

00:57:41this came out

00:57:42in the newspapers?

00:57:43At that time

00:57:43on this point

00:57:44this point has always been

00:57:45a very point

00:57:46have been arranged

00:57:47wiretaps

00:57:48from the prosecutor's office?

00:57:49At that time

00:57:50the point of the insights

00:57:52even banking ones

00:57:53on the K family

00:57:54it was definitely

00:57:54a point that has entered

00:57:56at a certain point

00:57:57I said

00:57:57the Financial Police

00:57:58in the investigations

00:57:59but they were not authorized

00:58:00so just as he entered

00:58:02he came out

00:58:02many have wondered

00:58:03but what do they have to do with it?

00:58:04What does the K family have to do with it?

00:58:05why it has to go

00:58:06who said it?

00:58:07the Financial Police

00:58:08that I did that

00:58:09but it was not authorized

00:58:11and so as well

00:58:12we asked ourselves

00:58:12we gave up

00:58:13to ask for it

00:58:14let me hear

00:58:15Piero Colaprico

00:58:16then we start talking

00:58:18but

00:58:18of the old investigation

00:58:19and the new one

00:58:23that is, in my opinion

00:58:24I'm not saying that someone

00:58:26is doing it

00:58:27it's difficult

00:58:28hide though

00:58:29behind a finger

00:58:30on the fact that

00:58:31the K twins

00:58:32from the beginning

00:58:33of history

00:58:34and above all

00:58:34of the new investigation

00:58:36they were

00:58:37in the center

00:58:38of numerous articles

00:58:39journalistic

00:58:40of numerous sussures

00:58:41there have been

00:58:42television crews

00:58:43who went to them

00:58:44they who rebelled

00:58:46and then they

00:58:47probably

00:58:48I don't know

00:58:48the complaint

00:58:49and already the other time

00:58:50I said

00:58:50that for me

00:58:51the focus

00:58:52death always remains

00:58:53by Chiara Poggi

00:58:54that's what's happening

00:58:55all this side dish

00:58:58it leaves me cold

00:58:59let's say

00:58:59and I would like to stay cold

00:59:01but

00:59:01is born

00:59:02from the idea

00:59:03That

00:59:04according to the K twins

00:59:05all this fury

00:59:07against them

00:59:08must have an origin

00:59:09somewhere

00:59:10Why

00:59:11it's not alone

00:59:12the witness

00:59:13what does he say?

00:59:14that there is a girl

00:59:15blonde on a bicycle

00:59:16that turns

00:59:16with a poker

00:59:18Meaning what

00:59:18on this

00:59:19urban legend

00:59:20it was built

00:59:22for a long time

00:59:23a series of topics

00:59:25that have gone

00:59:25always on the K's

00:59:26Therefore

00:59:27probably

00:59:27since

00:59:28they file a complaint

00:59:29the judiciary

00:59:30can ascertain

00:59:31with the same serenity

00:59:32with which

00:59:33we accept

00:59:34and let's see

00:59:35where do they end up?

00:59:36investigations on always

00:59:37where did they end up

00:59:38those on stasis

00:59:39I would say

00:59:39we accept

00:59:40it had to end

00:59:41this investigation

00:59:42if it ever opens

00:59:43if it ever opens

00:59:44about the lawyer

00:59:45De Renzi

00:59:45but Piego excuse me

00:59:46it seems normal to you

00:59:47That

00:59:47there is a drama in this

00:59:48I have to tell the truth

00:59:49it's not a complaint

00:59:50a complaint

00:59:51Piero

00:59:53it seems normal to you

00:59:53that in a complaint

00:59:54a lawyer

00:59:55why Stefania Cappa

00:59:56he is a lawyer

00:59:57reports for pages and pages

00:59:59the recording

01:00:00made by a journalist

01:00:02by Chiara Ingrosso

01:00:03of his meeting

01:00:04with Di Giuseppe

01:00:05without Di Giuseppe's knowledge

01:00:07are you sure about this?

01:00:08absolutely

01:00:09there are pages

01:00:10of transcription

01:00:10of the conversation

01:00:12between Chiara Ingrosso

01:00:14and Alessandro Di Giuseppe

01:00:15In my opinion

01:00:16a lawyer

01:00:16he doesn't do it

01:00:16this thing here

01:00:17Piero

01:00:18Meaning what

01:00:20use material

01:00:21which has acquired

01:00:21the theme is

01:00:22that she

01:00:23on one side

01:00:23go

01:00:24but on one hand

01:00:26he is a lawyer

01:00:27on the other side

01:00:27she considers herself a victim

01:00:29of a

01:00:30at least of slander

01:00:31at least of

01:00:32to be finished

01:00:33with his family

01:00:34in the center

01:00:35of dozens of gossip

01:00:37if a person

01:00:38he says enough

01:00:38and says

01:00:39I am making this complaint

01:00:40and let's see what happens

01:00:41me personally

01:00:42I can't find it

01:00:43nothing bad

01:00:44also because

01:00:45and I repeat

01:00:46I am against

01:00:47the complaints

01:00:47I never spoke

01:00:48of journalists

01:00:49in my life

01:00:49nor of others

01:00:50but the complaints

01:00:51they are raining down

01:00:51in this case

01:00:52the people

01:00:53on air

01:00:54he says things

01:00:55and then he makes complaints

01:00:56behind the scenes

01:00:57that is, we saw

01:00:58a world

01:00:59literally changed

01:01:00Why

01:01:01the case

01:01:02Stasis

01:01:02Example

01:01:03he is the poor victim

01:01:05Chiara Poggi

01:01:06clearly

01:01:07it's a detonator

01:01:08in which each

01:01:08he puts us in

01:01:09even a little bit

01:01:10whatever he wants

01:01:11losing sight of

01:01:12I repeat

01:01:13what's happening

01:01:14what happened

01:01:15that is, femicide

01:01:17of a girl

01:01:18who had

01:01:18a life ahead

01:01:19for me that's it

01:01:20it's the focus

01:01:21I am sorry

01:01:22for the lawyer De Rensis

01:01:23Why

01:01:24not to me

01:01:25who do they believe me to be?

01:01:26I understand that it is located

01:01:28in a bad way

01:01:29Meaning what

01:01:38I find myself

01:01:40in a beautiful location

01:01:41Why

01:01:42finally

01:01:43finally

01:01:43I can do

01:01:45what is called

01:01:46in boxing jargon

01:01:48a hand-to-hand fight

01:01:49see

01:01:50I'll give you another piece of news

01:01:51Mrs. Stefania Cappa

01:01:53this too

01:01:54will be brought

01:01:54attention

01:01:55if any public

01:01:57ministry

01:01:58will consider writing

01:01:59the mine director

01:01:59of the suspects

01:02:00two months ago

01:02:02this is the lawyer

01:02:04Bocellari

01:02:04of course he knows

01:02:05he contacted

01:02:07an organ

01:02:08now I'm generic

01:02:10asking me to stop

01:02:13Certain

01:02:14to stop her?

01:02:15absolutely

01:02:16from one point of view

01:02:17media

01:02:17he contacted

01:02:19an organ

01:02:19it will be your order

01:02:21the bar association

01:02:22I say organ

01:02:23I can guess it

01:02:25I'm saying organ

01:02:26he contacted

01:02:28a member

01:02:28to this organ

01:02:30who reported

01:02:32to the organ

01:02:33this request

01:02:34and I'm here

01:02:36on television

01:02:37and also of this

01:02:39of this too

01:02:41Mrs. Stefania Cappa

01:02:42will answer

01:02:43because unfortunately

01:02:45as I said

01:02:46he presented

01:02:46a complaint

01:02:47to order

01:02:47of the lawyers

01:02:48he contacted

01:02:49he contacted

01:02:51a counselor

01:02:52of the order

01:02:53who knows what in Milan

01:02:54it is said

01:02:54go play

01:02:55the organ

01:02:55I said organ

01:02:57I said organ

01:02:58please

01:02:59Doctor Delli

01:03:00Engineer Delli

01:03:01he remembers

01:03:02this joke

01:03:02because there isn't

01:03:04the organ

01:03:05to stay

01:03:06the wording

01:03:07what am I saying

01:03:08he contacted

01:03:09an organ

01:03:09through

01:03:10a single person

01:03:12asking

01:03:13that he put himself

01:03:14a brake

01:03:15to mine

01:03:16activity

01:03:17media

01:03:18and I'm here

01:03:19so obviously

01:03:20there was

01:03:21evidently

01:03:22there was a response

01:03:23and since all this

01:03:24it is documented

01:03:25of this too

01:03:27Mrs. Stefania Cappa

01:03:29will give explanations

01:03:30just one more moment

01:03:32tell me something

01:03:33Gianni Redelli

01:03:36these events

01:03:37they go somehow

01:03:38they risk in some way

01:03:39to influence

01:03:40on the investigation

01:03:41on the afterlife of the climate

01:03:42which in short

01:03:42this obviously

01:03:44it's obvious

01:03:45then look

01:03:46I believe

01:03:47that the prosecution

01:03:48from Pavia

01:03:48has demonstrated

01:03:50in these months

01:03:51a notable one

01:03:53seriousness

01:03:54in dealing with

01:03:54the case

01:03:55which is why I believe

01:03:56that this situation

01:03:57which is a situation

01:03:59that yes

01:04:00how to say

01:04:02it is created

01:04:04on a piece of land

01:04:04undoubtedly

01:04:05slippery

01:04:06a little bit for everyone

01:04:07but I believe

01:04:08that this situation

01:04:09Not

01:04:09I can't

01:04:11interfere

01:04:11with work

01:04:12of the prosecution

01:04:13from Pavia

01:04:14absolutely

01:04:14I ask him

01:04:15because today

01:04:16it struck me

01:04:16I'll be right there then

01:04:17to generations

01:04:17we also hear

01:04:18the opinion

01:04:19by General Garofano

01:04:19because today

01:04:20there is another person

01:04:21that says one thing

01:04:21In my opinion

01:04:22quite important

01:04:23because it's true

01:04:23that Joseph

01:04:24Example

01:04:24we said it

01:04:25had been said

01:04:26also in others

01:04:27Lidi where

01:04:27is better known

01:04:29he is a person

01:04:29very simple

01:04:30we don't have it

01:04:31never met

01:04:32us obviously

01:04:33as a broadcast

01:04:34but he speaks

01:04:35of a cowardice

01:04:36towards

01:04:37of the son

01:04:38which is another

01:04:39let's say

01:04:39definition

01:04:40which is not very suitable

01:04:41to an investigation

01:04:42of a power of attorney

01:04:43in general

01:04:44they feel

01:04:46harassed

01:04:47from an investigation

01:04:48that they don't share

01:04:49both on the plane

01:04:51traditional

01:04:52both on the plane

01:04:52scientific

01:04:53but I want

01:04:54go back

01:04:57Depends

01:04:58the one exposed

01:04:59of the doctor

01:05:00Wholesale

01:05:01and this complaint

01:05:02it's a complaint

01:05:03what they did to her

01:05:04what outcomes will it have?

01:05:06because it's clear

01:05:07that if they were to

01:05:08to notice

01:05:09of responsibilities

01:05:10inevitably

01:05:11the lawyer

01:05:12Derenzi

01:05:12he is a protagonist

01:05:14of this

01:05:15new investigation

01:05:16Therefore

01:05:17together with the lawyer

01:05:18Bocentari

01:05:19Therefore

01:05:19Depends

01:05:20what will be the outcome

01:05:21of his experience

01:05:23in the Carabinieri

01:05:24but

01:05:25send a message

01:05:26to our viewers

01:05:28to users

01:05:30of free information

01:05:33look at that

01:05:34it's in order

01:05:35some things

01:05:35let them come

01:05:36sometimes referred to

01:05:37some news

01:05:38that are not true

01:05:38to journalists

01:05:39but it's part

01:05:40of ethics

01:05:41of our profession

01:05:43go and check

01:05:44point by point

01:05:45it's not that because

01:05:46one thing is said

01:05:47from an official source

01:05:49it is absolutely

01:05:51the truth

01:05:51we often look for

01:05:53findings

01:05:53also on the sources

01:05:55officers

01:05:56Why

01:05:56because sometimes

01:05:57official sources

01:05:58for needs

01:05:59correct me

01:06:00general

01:06:00they don't tell

01:06:01the whole truth

01:06:02they tell about it

01:06:02a part

01:06:04they sometimes try

01:06:05no

01:06:05one thing

01:06:06something on the fly

01:06:08sorry Luciano

01:06:09something on the fly

01:06:10I wonder

01:06:11this also to answer

01:06:12to Piero

01:06:13but it was legitimate

01:06:15or not

01:06:15this year

01:06:17erupted

01:06:17having discussed

01:06:19of the K

01:06:21from the moment

01:06:22That

01:06:22they enter the scene

01:06:23right away

01:06:24with that famous

01:06:25photomontage

01:06:26from the moment

01:06:27That

01:06:27there is the famous

01:06:28witness

01:06:30Muschitta

01:06:31which we talked about

01:06:32and talked too much

01:06:33but it is a testimony

01:06:35on file

01:06:36and we asked ourselves

01:06:37not only us

01:06:38everyone

01:06:40and we want

01:06:41I didn't make it up

01:06:42that the K family

01:06:43it was intercepted

01:06:45long

01:06:46because it was intercepted

01:06:47I do not know

01:06:48but it's one thing

01:06:49what they did

01:06:50the investigators

01:06:51of then

01:06:51Therefore

01:06:52the fact of discussing

01:06:53and having

01:06:54as he recalled

01:06:55Ilenia

01:06:55always given

01:06:57that they were not

01:06:57and I'm never

01:06:58been investigated

01:06:59and was part of

01:07:02of our work

01:07:03Therefore

01:07:03I wouldn't be surprised

01:07:05and I wouldn't do it

01:07:06the little virgin

01:07:08dear Piero

01:07:08Do you remember them?

01:07:09the wiretaps

01:07:10up to a certain point

01:07:11the wiretaps

01:07:12of 2007

01:07:13the wiretaps

01:07:16of 2007

01:07:17the wiretaps

01:07:18of 2007

01:07:20that I know by heart

01:07:21and that everyone has read

01:07:23you remember them

01:07:24When

01:07:25someone said

01:07:27to that colonel

01:07:28I told him

01:07:29That

01:07:29to that other one

01:07:31I told him

01:07:31That

01:07:32now let's talk

01:07:34with

01:07:34to stop

01:07:36you remember them

01:07:37or you don't remember them

01:07:38the episode

01:07:39which involved

01:07:40Felts

01:07:41dear Dr. Colaprico

01:07:43what is it

01:07:44the episode

01:07:45that Feltri

01:07:45of which

01:07:46Director Feltri

01:07:47it was the subject

01:07:49it wasn't an attempt

01:07:50to direct something

01:07:52it was not serious

01:07:54that

01:07:54it has been reported

01:07:56from all the press

01:07:57Italian

01:07:58and we know very well

01:07:59what are we talking about?

01:08:01then you see

01:08:02when they are done

01:08:04of the reconstructions

01:08:05must

01:08:06have

01:08:07long memory

01:08:08Why

01:08:09Excuse me

01:08:10the wiretaps

01:08:11of 2007

01:08:13which involved

01:08:14some of his colleagues

01:08:16who were talking

01:08:17with certain people

01:08:18I have them

01:08:19I have them

01:08:21and I have them

01:08:22even in the head

01:08:23and as a defender

01:08:25by Alberto Stasi

01:08:26I'm horrified

01:08:28that there were

01:08:29of contacts

01:08:30with the lady

01:08:31Stefania Cappa

01:08:32by

01:08:33of some of his colleagues

01:08:35also television

01:08:36dear Dr. Colaprico

01:08:38but she spreads them

01:08:40if she has something

01:08:42to say

01:08:42spread them

01:08:43Surely

01:08:44I do not believe

01:08:44that there are

01:08:45my

01:08:46wiretaps

01:08:46but the

01:08:47you can help

01:08:48the republics

01:08:49we are talking

01:08:50of another topic

01:08:51we are talking

01:08:52of another topic

01:08:53the voice

01:08:53just me

01:08:54this evening

01:08:54you can say

01:08:55to Dr. Colaprico

01:08:56that they have

01:08:58widespread

01:08:59all Italian newspapers

01:09:00those interceptions

01:09:01in the documents of the time

01:09:03there were

01:09:03That's good

01:09:04Thank you

01:09:04in the documents of the time

01:09:05there were

01:09:06look

01:09:06I wanted to say

01:09:08but one thing

01:09:09it happened to me

01:09:10to me

01:09:12in this last year

01:09:13it happened

01:09:14Wait

01:09:14sorry Piero

01:09:15I just want to say one thing

01:09:16in this last year

01:09:17it happened to me

01:09:18to go and look for

01:09:19Ermanno Cappa

01:09:20I did it for Giretti

01:09:21I have been there

01:09:21we all did it

01:09:22and I found myself

01:09:24in some moments

01:09:25without registration

01:09:25to talk to him

01:09:26and he really was

01:09:27exhausted

01:09:28of this situation

01:09:29that had been created

01:09:30because anyway

01:09:31everyday

01:09:32one day yes

01:09:33one day no

01:09:33the Cappa were

01:09:34protagonists of stories

01:09:36and he of this

01:09:37had already announced

01:09:39that he would have reported

01:09:40filed complaints

01:09:41then there were

01:09:42other passages

01:09:43Therefore

01:09:44it's in the narrative

01:09:45that we have done

01:09:46Meaning what

01:09:47it's not that now

01:09:48suddenly

01:09:49we are discovering

01:09:49No

01:09:50in the sense

01:09:51we were wrong

01:09:52in the sense that I'm saying

01:09:53Speaking of which

01:09:54compared to that

01:09:55what Piero said

01:09:56that was being talked about

01:09:57of the Cappa

01:09:58even though they were not under investigation

01:10:00but it was a theme

01:10:01that speaking of exit

01:10:02we talked about it

01:10:04the cocoons

01:10:05I understand

01:10:06but you have

01:10:07especially you

01:10:07you searched

01:10:08a dialogue

01:10:09with Stefania Cappa

01:10:11with Paola Cappa

01:10:12colleagues have gone

01:10:13just to look for

01:10:13we remember it

01:10:14how did it end

01:10:15who have never spoken

01:10:16they never wanted to talk

01:10:18this is a point

01:10:18but sorry

01:10:19I do

01:10:20no because

01:10:21no one answers

01:10:22in the 2007 survey

01:10:25there were these others

01:10:26yes but he answered

01:10:27there is

01:10:28Stefania Cappa

01:10:29the journalists

01:10:29yes there were

01:10:30Thank you

01:10:31Certain

01:10:31but at least like this

01:10:32he had answered

01:10:33we said it before too

01:10:34there was in the cards

01:10:36Thanks for the reply

01:10:37but they are wiretaps

01:10:38very well known

01:10:39we all know them

01:10:40No

01:10:40Piero

01:10:40do you remember them too?

01:10:41No

01:10:41you have the cards in front of you

01:10:44he doesn't remember them

01:10:45I am trying to say

01:10:45you have the cards

01:10:46he doesn't remember them

01:10:47I have the other cards

01:10:48and the other cards

01:10:50alright

01:10:50I have the new cards

01:10:51one concerns the fact

01:10:53that the lawyer De Rensis

01:10:55as he rightly said

01:10:56enter this story

01:10:58already in 2017

01:10:59and in official documents

01:11:01of the European Court

01:11:03so I mean

01:11:04a journalist

01:11:05who wants to follow things

01:11:06but what is he saying

01:11:07in 2017

01:11:09no sorry

01:11:10no but you have to stop it

01:11:11because this is misinformation

01:11:13my actions

01:11:15Excuse me

01:11:15but there is

01:11:16Excuse me

01:11:17Excuse me

01:11:18Excuse me

01:11:19Excuse me

01:11:20yes please

01:11:20Excuse me

01:11:21it is a present participle

01:11:23of the verb to ignore

01:11:24ignorant with the aprico

01:11:26in 2017

01:11:27the appeal to the ECHR

01:11:30it was presented

01:11:31from a university professor

01:11:33of Rome

01:11:33I took over

01:11:35in 2022

01:11:37for the memories

01:11:38conclusive

01:11:39these are official documents

01:11:41and I ask

01:11:42to my colleague Giada

01:11:43if he listens to us

01:11:44to intervene

01:11:45because she

01:11:46I participate present

01:11:48of the verb to ignore

01:11:49she

01:11:50Dr. Colaprico

01:11:51ignorant

01:11:52is spreading

01:11:54a piece of news

01:11:55totally false

01:11:56the appeal

01:11:57it was deposited

01:11:59from a university professor

01:12:01of Rome

01:12:01listen

01:12:02from a university professor

01:12:04of Rome

01:12:04listen

01:12:05listen

01:12:05the appeal

01:12:07number 26913

01:12:08proposed against

01:12:10the Republic

01:12:11Italian

01:12:12from a citizen

01:12:13of that State

01:12:14Mr. Alberto Stasi

01:12:16the appellant

01:12:18represented

01:12:19the lawyer

01:12:20Dere

01:12:20represented

01:12:21but the appeal

01:12:23he introduced it

01:12:24a university professor

01:12:27of Rome

01:12:27asked

01:12:27at the court

01:12:28according to the senses

01:12:29of Article 34

01:12:30there's nothing to do

01:12:30wait for Piero

01:12:31there's nothing to do

01:12:33I am not

01:12:34a biographer of his

01:12:35it doesn't change

01:12:37Piero

01:12:38I hope Giada

01:12:39to bottle

01:12:40intervene

01:12:40but it's not necessary

01:12:41but above all

01:12:42it's not necessary

01:12:42they are the documents

01:12:44officers

01:12:45what do I care about?

01:12:46of what Derenzi does

01:12:46Piero, excuse me for a moment.

01:12:47but

01:12:48because if not

01:12:48you're going to put on too

01:12:49in situation

01:12:50Crazy

01:12:50no wait

01:12:51Lawyer Derenzi

01:12:52excuse me for a moment Piero

01:12:53but if the lawyer Derenzi

01:12:55he tells you that he

01:12:56no Piero

01:12:56put me in the window with Piero

01:12:57that's how they see it too

01:12:58our

01:12:59what a shame

01:12:59I listen

01:13:00Piero here he is

01:13:01Piero if the lawyer Derenzi

01:13:03he tells you

01:13:03look, I

01:13:04I'm getting into the story

01:13:06from Garlasco

01:13:06In the

01:13:072022

01:13:08with memories

01:13:10conclusive

01:13:10for the European Court

01:13:12don't question it

01:13:14Piero

01:13:14from a professor

01:13:15University of Rome

01:13:16whose name

01:13:17I'm not saying this to be fair

01:13:18if he tells you

01:13:19entering in 2022

01:13:20why do you have to say

01:13:21in 2016

01:13:21get out of this thing

01:13:23go ahead

01:13:24At that time

01:13:26I can speak

01:13:27the ignorant Derenzi

01:13:29who ignores

01:13:30the official documents

01:13:32of the European Court

01:13:33go look for

01:13:34on the internet

01:13:35stasis appeal

01:13:37will find

01:13:37what is written there

01:13:38but Piero

01:13:38but who cares

01:13:39but Piero

01:13:40Excuse me

01:13:41but

01:13:41if the

01:13:42hand

01:13:42but

01:13:43but Piero

01:13:43if he tells you

01:13:44that he

01:13:45entered in 2022

01:13:46Crazy

01:13:47but if he tells you

01:13:48who entered in 2020

01:13:49Crazy

01:13:50in the defense team

01:13:51Tomorrow

01:13:52I will spread tomorrow

01:13:53I will release the data tomorrow

01:13:55Enough

01:13:55stop

01:13:56enough go away

01:13:56Why

01:13:57we can't stop

01:13:58on these things

01:14:00it is the official document

01:14:01he should be ashamed

01:14:02but go on

01:14:03it is the official document

01:14:04she is a disinformer

01:14:06he is a bad person

01:14:08in bad faith

01:14:09hand

01:14:09this is not true

01:14:10hand

01:14:10I'll say it

01:14:11I'm someone who wants to know things

01:14:13it was presented

01:14:15from a professor in Rome

01:14:16he told you

01:14:17Piero

01:14:18he told you he came in

01:14:19in 2022

01:14:20we cannot question

01:14:22always everything

01:14:22Crazy

01:14:23because if we question

01:14:24the word

01:14:25by Derenzi

01:14:26of the lawyer Derenzi

01:14:26on this point

01:14:28the whole system collapses a bit

01:14:29he told you he came in

01:14:30in 2022

01:14:31this is how you find the official document

01:14:33it's incredible

01:14:34okay

01:14:34it's incredible

01:14:35okay

01:14:35it was once said

01:14:37let's bet

01:14:37it's incredible

01:14:38Tomorrow

01:14:39We will release the document tomorrow

01:14:41the cards are loaded

01:14:41with the name of the university professor of Rome

01:14:43At that time

01:14:44I'll bring you back for a moment

01:14:45how to say

01:14:46perhaps to even more interesting things

01:14:47as compared to

01:14:48the dates

01:14:49although

01:14:50how to say

01:14:50we have to stick to what is said

01:14:52officially

01:14:53if

01:14:54this however Piero

01:14:55you teach me too

01:14:56that you have more experience than me

01:14:57if the direct source

01:14:59he tells you

01:14:59I enter the defense

01:15:00by Alberto Stasi

01:15:01in 2022

01:15:02with the final memories

01:15:03with the final memories

01:15:05of the appeal to access

01:15:06why not believe him

01:15:07for what reason

01:15:08say no

01:15:08she is a liar

01:15:09entered in 2016

01:15:10but this is a fixed point

01:15:12let's move on

01:15:13when I didn't know

01:15:14Lawyer Bocellari

01:15:15seek patience

01:15:16search for the document

01:15:17All right

01:15:18we will try to

01:15:19Unfortunately, she doesn't understand anything

01:15:20I always talk

01:15:21this is the fact

01:15:22I always talk to the one who

01:15:23look

01:15:23Unfortunately, you are a disinformer

01:15:26in bad faith

01:15:27but tomorrow

01:15:28we will provide the documents

01:15:30I'm leaving it alone

01:15:30and she will be

01:15:32shamed in front of all of Italy

01:15:33Tomorrow

01:15:35she will be shamed

01:15:36sorry but only me

01:15:37I'm wondering

01:15:39to whom it may concern

01:15:40this thing

01:15:42to no one

01:15:42Rita

01:15:42only in Colaprico

01:15:44to try to throw away

01:15:45as usual

01:15:46everything in hunting

01:15:47why so much

01:15:48at the end of the fair

01:15:49the story is always this

01:15:51they talk about directing

01:15:52and then the direction

01:15:53it's somewhere else

01:15:54I only know one thing

01:15:55which clearly

01:15:55legitimately

01:15:56everyone can

01:15:57present all complaints

01:15:59what he wants

01:15:59file all complaints

01:16:01what he wants

01:16:02but today I know

01:16:03of the opening

01:16:04in Pavia

01:16:04from the Pavia prosecutor's office

01:16:06of a file

01:16:07for identification

01:16:08of a character

01:16:09that in these months

01:16:10he sold himself

01:16:12like a source

01:16:13of the prosecution

01:16:14so a member

01:16:15to the prosecutor's office

01:16:16who gave

01:16:17to various journalists

01:16:18YouTuber

01:16:19In short

01:16:20to various characters

01:16:21of information

01:16:23which in reality

01:16:23they were false

01:16:24poisoned meatballs

01:16:26which apparently

01:16:27they were news

01:16:29prostasi

01:16:30but then in reality

01:16:31they were times

01:16:32to get in the way

01:16:34to delegitimize

01:16:35the investigation

01:16:36from Pavia

01:16:37so there is a file

01:16:39and it's in progress

01:16:40the identification

01:16:40of this person

01:16:41Wait

01:16:42my studio

01:16:43he provided me

01:16:44the document

01:16:44I wish she would

01:16:45All right

01:16:46no it's very important

01:16:47because there is my reputation

01:16:49he appealed

01:16:50signed by the professor

01:16:52At that time

01:16:52since I

01:16:53I didn't put this one

01:16:54in doubt

01:16:54he sent it to me

01:16:55my studio

01:16:56Now

01:16:56now we

01:16:57we acquire it

01:16:58Exactly

01:16:58so we broadcast it

01:17:00Thank you

01:17:01let's move on

01:17:01it doesn't seem so to me

01:17:02sacrosanct and duty

01:17:03thank you

01:17:04we do it willingly

01:17:05but we have to move on

01:17:06Rita said

01:17:07turn around and take the document

01:17:09but

01:17:09you already got it

01:17:10you're taking it

01:17:11Perfect

01:17:12Rita Cavallaro

01:17:13we were given another piece of news

01:17:15this evening

01:17:15At that time

01:17:16who is this person

01:17:18that went around

01:17:19to release

01:17:21poisoned meatballs

01:17:22prostasi

01:17:23in reality they were

01:17:24counterstasis

01:17:25can you do something for us?

01:17:27you don't even know the name

01:17:28I think

01:17:28we don't know

01:17:29but an open file

01:17:31in Pavia

01:17:31yes obviously

01:17:33then the Pavia prosecutor's office

01:17:34is investigating

01:17:35on identity

01:17:36but they know it

01:17:37he is a person

01:17:38identified

01:17:39or

01:17:40he is a person

01:17:41in progress

01:17:41of identification

01:17:42so they

01:17:43on the basis

01:17:44of some elements

01:17:45they should arrive

01:17:46quickly to the person

01:17:48technically

01:17:48if someone who threw

01:17:49poisoned meatballs

01:17:50to journalists

01:17:51it won't be difficult

01:17:52In short

01:17:52it won't be that difficult

01:17:53Certain

01:17:54let's remember

01:17:55No

01:17:55because of things

01:17:56they have been heard

01:17:56but then it must have

01:17:56a credibility

01:17:57because if we talk

01:17:58with the journalist

01:17:59it was passed off as a source

01:18:00here is a source of who

01:18:01of the prosecution

01:18:02it was passed off as a source

01:18:04of the prosecution

01:18:05and he went to give

01:18:06this news

01:18:07which then

01:18:07the source of the prosecution

01:18:08it's not that

01:18:09there are a thousand sources

01:18:10the source of the prosecution

01:18:12I was or they weren't

01:18:13I was or I wasn't

01:18:14Exactly

01:18:15it wasn't

01:18:15yes but someone who deals

01:18:17as a source of the prosecution

01:18:18it means that you

01:18:19you're doing

01:18:20PG

01:18:21magistrate

01:18:21you're doing

01:18:22also replacement

01:18:23in this case too

01:18:24there is

01:18:24seven

01:18:25I apologize

01:18:26Arianna Giunti

01:18:27in the studio with us

01:18:28Now

01:18:28you heard

01:18:29moreover

01:18:29the former marshal

01:18:32Marchetto

01:18:32and then you will tell us

01:18:34of the outcome

01:18:35of the phone call

01:18:36seven journalists

01:18:37in the studio

01:18:38to us

01:18:38this source

01:18:39he never gave us anything

01:18:40No

01:18:41I don't have this source

01:18:42Therefore

01:18:42it's not mine

01:18:43but

01:18:44some people

01:18:45seven journalists

01:18:45in a television studio

01:18:47which seems

01:18:47the beginning of a joke

01:18:49or of a refrain

01:18:50there isn't one

01:18:51that he had

01:18:51the poisoned meatball

01:18:52from Mr. X

01:18:53there isn't one

01:18:54that he had

01:18:54the poisoned meatball

01:18:55from De Renzis

01:18:57it's starting to become

01:18:58I feel left out

01:18:59from the club

01:18:59yes yes

01:19:00Indeed

01:19:00but there is a club

01:19:03but there is a club

01:19:04from which we are excluded

01:19:05there is a card

01:19:07For

01:19:08Brignani

01:19:08you don't have the card

01:19:09of the

01:19:09no there are only

01:19:11the poisoned meatballs

01:19:12from Colaprico

01:19:12as far as I'm concerned

01:19:13in a few seconds

01:19:14he will be exposed as a liar

01:19:15in front of me

01:19:16look

01:19:17you have to stop it

01:19:18in a few seconds

01:19:19she will be exposed as a liar

01:19:20they are about to send

01:19:21in graphics

01:19:22the appeal

01:19:23of the professor

01:19:25of the professor

01:19:26present participle

01:19:27soon

01:19:27he will be exposed as a liar

01:19:29present participle

01:19:31he is about to be exposed as a liar

01:19:33then we'll see it

01:19:33then let's do something

01:19:34let's go

01:19:35present participle

01:19:36let's go

01:19:36All right

01:19:37we do

01:19:38What?

01:19:39No

01:19:39no what

01:19:40Piero

01:19:41I sent it too

01:19:43the CEI document

01:19:44I sent

01:19:44your discount

01:19:45good good

01:19:46has it ever happened to me

01:19:47it's crazy

01:19:48so they send it too

01:19:50it's crazy

01:19:50it's an incredible thing

01:19:52we will send them

01:19:53no but he doesn't understand anything

01:19:54it's crazy what she says

01:19:55unfortunately he doesn't understand

01:19:56it's his problem

01:19:57no look, I have a law degree

01:19:59I am sorry

01:20:00yes yes

01:20:01Well done

01:20:03Well done

01:20:03remember something

01:20:04Well done

01:20:06not only

01:20:06not just my resume

01:20:07I didn't come here to talk to her

01:20:10I didn't come here to talk to her

01:20:12All right

01:20:13so at this point I'll stop you

01:20:14Enough

01:20:15I'll stop you

01:20:16now let's stop Piero

01:20:17Enough

01:20:18enough now

01:20:19I say it

01:20:19no that's enough now

01:20:21let's get out of this issue

01:20:22and we will show the two documents

01:20:23then you can see for yourselves

01:20:24also because

01:20:24Really

01:20:26it's a matter of no interest

01:20:27we have the lawyer Derenzi

01:20:29what does he say?

01:20:29I enter in 2022

01:20:30you say he entered in 2016

01:20:32it really seems like it to me

01:20:33that I didn't know Giada

01:20:34irrelevant

01:20:35but really irrelevant

01:20:36but we're going to clarify

01:20:37after the advertisement

01:20:38so we see these documents in graphics

01:20:40but then that's enough

01:20:58then we went live again

01:21:00soon

01:21:00we will also start to enter

01:21:02really though

01:21:03in detail

01:21:04of the investigation

01:21:05of the old one

01:21:05of the new one

01:21:06what doesn't add up

01:21:07we will hear from dad

01:21:08by Joseph

01:21:09the dad

01:21:10Joseph Sempio

01:21:11Andrea Sempio's father

01:21:13which essentially says

01:21:14my son was made

01:21:15a cowardice

01:21:16we will try to understand

01:21:16what does he mean

01:21:17but I have to say

01:21:18he also says something else

01:21:19which struck me a little

01:21:20come back

01:21:21just as he did

01:21:22his wife

01:21:23Andrea Sempio's mother

01:21:24come back

01:21:25to do this

01:21:28similarity

01:21:28this passage

01:21:29on me in the eyes

01:21:31of my son

01:21:31he sees an innocent person in it

01:21:32then we'll hear it again well

01:21:35it reminded me

01:21:36a passage

01:21:36of the letter

01:21:37the very ugly letter

01:21:39which is sent

01:21:39from mom

01:21:40by Andrea Sempio

01:21:41to Alberto Stasi

01:21:43a letter

01:21:44where at a certain point

01:21:44reference is made

01:21:46to mom

01:21:46by Alberto Stasi

01:21:47When

01:21:47Andrea Sempio's mother

01:21:49he says

01:21:50but when she looks

01:21:51in the eyes

01:21:51his son

01:21:52he sees us

01:21:52an innocent

01:21:54here is the father today

01:21:54of Sempio

01:21:55it seems somehow

01:21:56answer

01:21:56somehow

01:21:58to do

01:21:58a similar speech

01:22:00saying

01:22:01me when I look

01:22:01in the eyes

01:22:02my son

01:22:03I see it

01:22:03an innocent

01:22:04about him

01:22:04a cowardice

01:22:05we will also talk

01:22:06of the hair

01:22:06of these famous

01:22:07four hairs

01:22:08that have been

01:22:09a moment

01:22:09important

01:22:10for the reopening

01:22:11of the investigations

01:22:11at work

01:22:12of the nucleus

01:22:13investigative

01:22:13of the carabinieri

01:22:14of Milan

01:22:15in command

01:22:16provincial

01:22:16but now

01:22:17we have to dissolve

01:22:18because if not

01:22:19we can't

01:22:19to move forward

01:22:20the big knot

01:22:22of this part

01:22:23of transmission

01:22:24waiting to understand

01:22:25what happened

01:22:25July 13th

01:22:26of 2022

01:22:28but first

01:22:29of July 13th

01:22:29of 2022

01:22:30the lawyer

01:22:31De Renzi

01:22:32he says

01:22:32I'm coming in

01:22:33in defense

01:22:34as co-defender

01:22:35with the lawyer

01:22:36Giada Bocellari

01:22:37in 2022

01:22:38but first

01:22:40takeover

01:22:41in the memories

01:22:42conclusive

01:22:43of the appeal

01:22:45deposited

01:22:45from the professor

01:22:46Wool

01:22:47as attested

01:22:48the document

01:22:48that my study

01:22:49and my kind

01:22:50colleague Careri

01:22:52he sent me

01:22:54I read

01:22:54the header

01:22:55of the paper

01:22:55Piero

01:22:56but let's read it together

01:22:57so there is no danger

01:22:58to be wrong

01:22:59I read

01:23:00in the paper

01:23:01headed

01:23:02to the professor

01:23:02Anton Giulio

01:23:03Wool

01:23:03the lawyers

01:23:05Mario Melillo

01:23:06Valentina Rallo

01:23:07Alessio San Giorgio

01:23:09thanks to Dorio

01:23:10Elisa

01:23:11Pieragostini

01:23:12there is no

01:23:12the name

01:23:13by De Renzi

01:23:13so in the

01:23:152016

01:23:16De Renzi

01:23:16there is no

01:23:17we can put

01:23:18the point

01:23:20to this

01:23:21Piero

01:23:24to that

01:23:25Yes

01:23:26mine too

01:23:27document

01:23:27I would like to see

01:23:28let's see the document

01:23:29by Piero

01:23:29Volaprico

01:23:30it's not ready yet

01:23:33you never said

01:23:33that was ready

01:23:35alright

01:23:36plot

01:23:37this is a conspiracy

01:23:37against us

01:23:38All right

01:23:38we'll show it

01:23:40in the meantime

01:23:41let's talk again

01:23:42of serious things

01:23:42but allow me

01:23:43listen to what he said

01:23:44Andrea Sempio's father

01:23:46on TG1

01:23:46Thank you

01:23:48Thank you

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