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00:00We got some summer weather and no real rain.
00:04Sunday might get some, but picture-perfect day today.
00:07I had football on last night, have football on today,
00:10and the Bills back to it tomorrow.
00:13How much football did you have on last night?
00:15I watched a little bit.
00:16I put on the Steelers-Packers game.
00:19Okay.
00:20Yeah.
00:20That was the one on NFL Network.
00:21McCarthy revenge game against the Packers, right?
00:25But that was about it.
00:26I watched a little bit of Drew Aller of Penn State who carved up the Packers.
00:34He was like 10 of 13, had some nice passes.
00:37Steelers Twitter was very excited.
00:39Yeah.
00:40I like that.
00:40Very excited.
00:41The old preseason pledge, which is, boy,
00:44how old is the preseason pledge that I wrote up
00:47and used to have people recite on the air?
00:50Was it sparked by somebody?
00:52Like someone's preseason campaign that got out of control
00:55and like we need something here.
00:56It probably was sparked by the drought itself
01:00and the belief that, hey, listen,
01:04this team being bad is inevitable
01:06and you should not derive joy from the preseason, right?
01:10Right.
01:10You shouldn't get excited about this quarterback looks good,
01:13whether that's Jabron Hamden or Trent Edwards or anybody.
01:18Mm-hmm.
01:20Nathan Peterman.
01:20Brian Brahm maybe along the way.
01:22Probably.
01:23It was, let me go back and find my first ever tweet
01:26about the preseason pledge, which was,
01:28none of it matters, don't take anything from it.
01:31And I do, you tell me, I get the sense that 97%
01:38of the football world is ready to kind of line up behind that
01:41and say, yeah, we're just kind of having a good time.
01:44Sure, I want to see Marvin Harrison Jr. look good
01:47and that's cool, but I'm not changing my pick
01:52for the season based on it.
01:53Sure.
01:54The last team to fall for that was the Pittsburgh Steelers
01:56with Kenny Pickett because he led a couple of drives,
01:59which might have been the final nail in the coffin
02:02for ever thinking the preseason has significant value.
02:07Yeah.
02:07Joe Brady said they are not game planning.
02:09They're just going out there and like calling plays, executing.
02:12Like there's no game planning, there's no nothing.
02:15And football is, of course, game planning, right?
02:19Imagine chess if you're just moving the pieces around
02:22and don't care what actually happens, right?
02:25Not quite chess.
02:26So I like that everybody's there and now we can all just kind of
02:31lean into the fun that it is.
02:32People can freak out that Jeremiah Love had 11 carries
02:36or, you know, pick your poison.
02:39And so it feels like we're not arguing with people
02:42about the preseason anymore, but maybe I'm wrong.
02:44Maybe the argument's on the way today or sometime this preseason.
02:47It shouldn't be about a team.
02:49Could it be about an individual in an extreme circumstance?
02:54Like Stribbling, the rookie receiver for the 49ers,
02:58went off yesterday.
03:00And it's, that's connected though to there already was optimism
03:05about him.
03:05There already was hype about him at camp.
03:07And everybody else is hurt.
03:08And everybody else is hurt.
03:10And then, oh, he has six catches and looks really good
03:12in the preseason game.
03:13Like I'm continuing my optimism meter for that guy in San Francisco
03:20because that's a continuation of what he's already been doing
03:24for a couple of weeks.
03:26And also like Jeremiah Love.
03:27Jeremiah Love looked, I thought, awesome yesterday.
03:30The way he ran reminded me of Adrian Peterson so much.
03:34Big, powerful.
03:35Like violently attacking the ground with their feet when he's running.
03:40He did have, what, 50 yards?
03:42Yeah, like the yardage wasn't incredible.
03:44But also, like I'm not changing anything on that.
03:46He was picked fourth overall, right?
03:49Like it's not, oh, this guy's good because he was really good in the
03:51preseason game.
03:53No, he was drafted in the top five.
03:54That's why you would do it.
03:55You should probably think that, yeah.
03:56So there's got to be a prior reason, I think.
04:01You know, like if the Bills come out tomorrow and who stands out?
04:07Like, you know, it's going to be Connie Walker.
04:11Connie Walker?
04:12He has an incredible, like, oh, there's a, hold on.
04:14There's a, oh, can I.
04:16Can I, excuse me, can I walk.
04:17He's new, can I walk.
04:18Can I walk has a great preseason game tomorrow.
04:20Like, oh, that makes sense.
04:21He's already had a really good training camp and the guys watching practice
04:24are mentioning him all the time.
04:26Yep.
04:26So that makes sense.
04:27That's probably Shavers last year.
04:28Like, oh, Shavers is kind of doing the thing that people expected him to do.
04:32Guy that I've never heard of that signed with the Bills a week ago.
04:35He has a great preseason game tomorrow.
04:37It doesn't matter.
04:40That's where I would be at it.
04:41That's probably right.
04:43I mean, you've got lots of examples of guys either going off or struggling.
04:48I mean, Jamar Chase couldn't catch the ball in his rookie year preseason.
04:51Remember the stripes on the ball?
04:52Yeah, he struggled with drops.
04:53Somebody pointed out yesterday that Justin Jefferson was behind some guy
04:57who I'd never heard of in his first preseason.
05:00I wonder who that was.
05:01I don't even know.
05:02Was it Laquan Treadwell?
05:03It was like B.C. Johnson or something.
05:05I went right past it to even think about it.
05:08So whatever.
05:09Like, you know, you get what you get and have a good time with it.
05:12And the Bills last year went one and two.
05:15There have been years where they've looked really good.
05:17There's seasons where they don't play Josh Allen a lot.
05:21There's seasons where they do.
05:22Maybe it all ended the preseason conversation when COVID happened and there was not a preseason.
05:28Right.
05:29Nobody had one and we just had a year.
05:32And, yeah, it was scoring up a lot that year.
05:34Yes.
05:35But I don't know.
05:36Like, all the things that you would have had that year for the Bills, I remember, too.
05:40Like, Allen hadn't popped off yet.
05:42Diggs was new.
05:43Right.
05:43And if there was a preseason, what would you hear about the preseason?
05:46Like, oh, good opportunity for your quarterback and receiver to get some work in together and get on the same
05:53page because they've never played together.
05:54And then they didn't have that opportunity.
05:56And what happened?
05:57The season started and they were just, like, right away.
06:00Yep.
06:01Right away incredible together.
06:03Didn't need any reps in the preseason whatsoever to get on the same page.
06:07Like, because why?
06:08You're doing that in practice for three months.
06:09That's actually one of the reasons when the reports are that Allen and Moore are clicking right away.
06:15I thought, that probably makes sense.
06:18And really, if you think about Allen and his history of clicking with players right away, who does it tend
06:24to happen with?
06:25Guys that are pretty good.
06:26Right?
06:27Beasley and Brown came in.
06:28They kind of clicked right away.
06:30And you'd even make this point for Emmanuel Sanders.
06:33Right?
06:33Like, this guy can play.
06:34He clicks right away.
06:35To a maybe lesser degree.
06:38Brandon Cooks is an established guy in the league.
06:40When he came in, it did not take Allen long for him to find him.
06:43Like, if you can play, Allen's going to find you.
06:46You know what's funny about that list?
06:47Every single guy you just mentioned was a veteran.
06:49Yeah.
06:51Very rarely it's a rookie.
06:52Right?
06:52Shakir didn't happen right away.
06:54Gabe Davis, I guess, is the best example of a rookie where it happened.
06:58Right.
06:59That would be the one.
07:00Coleman even, like, to a little bit of a degree, but not really.
07:04Yeah.
07:05Like, and again, that could be a talent thing.
07:07But Shakir would be the example.
07:08Because Shakir is a good player that had 10 catches playing a third of the snaps in his rookie season.
07:16So, I don't know.
07:17Like, is that an Allen thing also?
07:18Like, or is that just an NFL thing?
07:20You would expect that a quarterback is typically going to get on the same page with a veteran a lot
07:25quicker than he's going to get on the same page with rookies.
07:27Like, Brady has talked about on one of the thousand podcasts that he's been on in the last year that,
07:33like, rookies, he would, like, I want almost a full year from that guy before I even see him on
07:38the field with me.
07:39And maybe Allen is some version of that, too.
07:42Like, maybe all quarterbacks are.
07:43If you're a veteran quarterback, how much do you trust a rookie?
07:46It might take a lot for you to get to a point where Skyler Bell, I really trust that guy
07:52right away.
07:53Like, it might take two years before the quarterback is, like, fully in on, I want that guy, I need
08:00that guy on the field in critical moments.
08:02The veterans happens quickly with.
08:05Veterans and veterans that can play.
08:07Because not all veterans.
08:08Not like MBS.
08:10I mean, I guess Amari Cooper, right?
08:12Well.
08:13Yeah.
08:13The first game he played against the Titans for the Bills, I mean, he had a pretty solid game.
08:19Cooper didn't know the play, but Allen still found him.
08:21And there's that famous touchdown right away.
08:23Oh, yeah.
08:23Like, Coleman told him.
08:25Right, right.
08:25Yeah.
08:25So, if you're a veteran and you can play, he's going to find you.
08:28And he'll play on Saturday, tomorrow against the Panthers.
08:32Josh is going to play a little bit.
08:34The starters are going to play a little bit.
08:36Maybe the defense plays more than the offense.
08:38You know, it's, I'm thinking about, like, I almost want to not talk about the biggest preseason injuries ever.
08:46Because it feels like that's putting it out into the universe.
08:48But Arizona lost their starting guard last night.
08:50Yeah.
08:51And that's bad.
08:52Chase Passantis has a knee injury.
08:54And he's, I don't know the timeline, but when the coach says, it's not good.
08:59Yeah.
09:00Yeah.
09:00Like, that's not good.
09:01And we sometimes sit here and think, well, you know, the quarterback won't throw himself into trouble and blah, blah,
09:07blah.
09:08And you can also think that, well, if you're a guard, you could get rolled up on any game.
09:13It doesn't just have to be the preseason.
09:14But the difference is, there's literally nothing to gain by playing in these games.
09:18So, as a staunch, no starters should play person for a long time, I don't want to necessarily fully abandon
09:27that post.
09:28Of course, they probably shouldn't.
09:30But there's very little to gain.
09:33We've been through it a thousand times where people try to tie it up to, well, it's important for chemistry.
09:39It's important for this.
09:41It's important.
09:41So, and it's just not, the Bengals, we mentioned earlier in the week, the Bengals played Burrow last year because
09:47they were worried about how they got off to slow starts in years past.
09:50And then they beat the Browns by a point in a game they should have lost.
09:54So, what?
09:56When there was no preseason, Allen had an incredible year.
10:00You have a real tough time convincing me of really any value other than the players want to play.
10:06They want to get hit.
10:07Here's Brady saying, I want guys to hit and get hit.
10:10Just be careful.
10:12Just be careful.
10:13The tough guy routine about the preseason is all well and good until your starting corner.
10:18Christian Bedford goes down because he banged knees with somebody against Carolina.
10:22Like, that's just bad news.
10:24Knock on wood for that.
10:25So, the case about, like, chemistry and the stadium, Allen's going to want to look to see where the play
10:34clock is.
10:35All right.
10:36That seems, though, like.
10:37The first time I heard that, I thought, that makes sense.
10:40And then I thought, but then they go on the road all the time and he just finds out where
10:44it is.
10:44Right.
10:45You know, like, it's right there.
10:47It's in your field of vision when you're a quarterback.
10:49Right, you just do that and warm up.
10:51Yeah.
10:51Clock's over there.
10:52Okay.
10:52Right.
10:53Easy.
10:53It's like they're hiding it.
10:55No.
10:55Where's Waldo?
10:56I was convinced for about 12 minutes and I thought, wait a minute.
10:59Yeah.
11:00If he plays in a new stadium that's another new stadium this year, we won't, on postgame, think,
11:05I thought he had trouble locating the play clock.
11:07So, you know, the routine of pregame of a new stadium.
11:13Okay.
11:14Okay.
11:15The preseason pledge existed for a reason.
11:17So, I'll flip into nervous mode at 1 o'clock tomorrow.
11:23I'll get nervous until the quarterback comes out, until DJ Moore comes out, until, like, if we're ranking the players
11:31that you're feeling this about, on defense, it feels like I'd have 10 guys because I don't know who my
11:38major contributors really are.
11:39I don't want it to be TJ Parker that misses a month.
11:43Last year, Max Hairston got hurt in training camp and, you know, took him out for a while.
11:46So, sometimes you say injuries aren't avoidable, sometimes they are avoidable, and a preseason game is a spot where they
11:54are avoidable.
11:55So, I'm not, you know, firing brimstone, but I really haven't left that spot where I feel like you shouldn't
12:02play any important players.
12:03Yeah, I'm with you.
12:05Have the Bills had a really important injury in a preseason game in recent memory?
12:12I can't really think of one.
12:15Was Milano a camp injury or a preseason injury?
12:18That was camp.
12:18Camp.
12:19Okay, torn bicep in camp.
12:20I think a lot of them have been camp.
12:22Milano comes to mind, Hairston from last year, when Poyer was screaming on the ground with an elbow injury.
12:29I don't even know if he missed time, but that was camp.
12:30Yeah, that was camp.
12:32I mean, like, big injuries, like when Reggie Ragland got hurt, that was a practice.
12:37Day one.
12:38Day one.
12:39It was his first practice.
12:40Right.
12:42EJ got hurt in a preseason game.
12:44Were we done with him already?
12:46Must have been, because I don't remember it.
12:49I don't remember worrying about it too much.
12:51Manuel, in week two of the 2013 preseason game, had a left knee sprain, a minor surgery.
13:00But that didn't cost him any regular season time.
13:03So even that, they've maybe been lucky.
13:06Or just, how many do you actually get every year?
13:12The guys aren't playing a lot.
13:13Like, the ones that come to my memory are from so long ago.
13:16Like, I think of Michael Vick, which is 20 plus years ago now.
13:21Broke his leg?
13:22Yeah.
13:23Ray Lewis, maybe?
13:26Was chasing him around?
13:27That's how I remember it.
13:28Maybe it wasn't Ray Lewis.
13:29Yeah.
13:29But, like, that's a long time ago.
13:31But I'm still with you.
13:33Like, even though maybe it doesn't happen that often, what are you gaining from it?
13:39And what are the teams that don't play their guys at all really suffering?
13:44Like, can you think, I can think of examples where guys play and like, oh, it looks good.
13:48And then it just doesn't matter in the regular season at all.
13:51The Kenny Pickett example.
13:52Others.
13:52Yeah.
13:53Who's the guy that, oh, he didn't play in the preseason and he really cost him in the regular season?
13:58You kind of never know because if it costs you in the regular season, you just chalk it up to
14:02not being any good.
14:03Right.
14:04Like, this was said about Burrow and the Bengals, right?
14:07Yep.
14:07They don't play in the preseason.
14:09They get off to slow starts all the time.
14:11And then last year, they did play in the preseason and they were terrible in week one again.
14:15He played yesterday and he got sacked.
14:17Like, he got hit a couple times.
14:18Which, you know, it's just, it's going to make me nervous.
14:21It was a soft sack by that lineman.
14:23It was.
14:24It was a friendly.
14:25Yeah.
14:26You should call these games friendlies.
14:27Right.
14:27Our players aren't really trying to, especially starters.
14:32They're not trying to destroy quarterbacks out there.
14:34It depends.
14:35If you're a defensive player trying to make your mark, Caleb Elarm-Zor is going to try and kill
14:39someone, respectively.
14:41Right.
14:41Like, Caleb Elarm-Zor tomorrow at one o'clock is going to look for Tett McMillan on a quick
14:48little stopper out of the slot and try and knock his head off.
14:52Right.
14:53If he's in coverage in that spot.
14:54Or Jonathan Brooks.
14:56Here come the Carolina Panthers ready to show off Jonathan Brooks, who's finally going to
15:00get a look.
15:01Juba Hubbard's hurt.
15:02Here comes Jonathan Brooks.
15:03Here comes Bryce Young playing.
15:04I mean, what's Caleb Elarm-Zor?
15:06I'm using him specifically because he plays like that from what we hear, and we get our
15:11first look at him.
15:12So, you know, I can't even really remember the most significant preseason injuries.
15:16You mentioned, who was it?
15:18Vic?
15:19I mean, is that 2002?
15:22Yeah.
15:22That's a long time ago.
15:24Yeah, it's a long time ago.
15:25For a big, big, big major one.
15:27You know, you get linemen, which are big, major ones for the team, but maybe you don't
15:33remember.
15:33Did Ronnie Stanley get banged in a preseason and had to miss the whole season?
15:37I'm just remembering, like, the Ravens going through injury.
15:40When did the Chargers lose their tackles last year?
15:43Rashawn Slater and Joe Ault, they both got hurt for the year.
15:46Might have been one of them in the preseason.
15:48I remember Jordy Nelson, when he was, like, great for Green Bay, got injured in a preseason
15:53game.
15:55And he was, like, this was in his prime.
15:57Like, he was one of the best receivers in football.
15:59Yeah.
15:59Only remember that because I had drafted him in fantasy already, and then he was out for the
16:03season.
16:03Right.
16:04After that.
16:07But, even that.
16:09Like, that's, how long ago was he one of the best receivers in football?
16:12More than 10 years ago.
16:13Definitely.
16:14Yeah, a long time.
16:14So, like, that's not a recent example by any means.
16:19803-0550 is the phone number, and 1-888-552-550.
16:23Anybody want to dust off the old debate over the years?
16:26You know, we used to argue, we used to be a proper country, you know?
16:30We used to argue about preseason and whether or not somebody should play.
16:33So, if you want to dust that off for us, 803-0550.
16:36Or also, if you should get a prize at the end, you know, encourage teams to try more.
16:41Try, yes.
16:42And make it more entertaining.
16:43Like, you get an extra first-round pick if you win the preseason.
16:45Yeah.
16:47That's always a fun time of year.
16:49How to incentivize winning in the preseason?
16:51Yep.
16:51The players get a million dollars.
16:53That's always a go-to.
16:55Also.
16:56Yeah, I'm not quite ready for that one.
16:57I mean, sure, you can give the players more money.
17:00Does it make my ticket price go up?
17:02Probably not.
17:03Preseason football.
17:04We're back.
17:05We're so very back.
17:08Maybe it's most useful now, and maybe the reason that it's kind of adopted what it is
17:13is because of fantasy football.
17:15Because as fantasy has, you know, exploded and more and more people play fantasy football
17:20and get locked in, you are using the preseason to either scout, see how a guy's running,
17:27see where his usage is.
17:29Like, to give Jeremiah Love 11 carries last night, I don't know.
17:33You're probably drafting him first overall in Dynasty Leagues, but does that change much?
17:38Does it change much to see Marvin Harrison Jr. catch a pair of touchdowns?
17:44Maybe, maybe not, right?
17:45I mean, Carson Beck looked great in their first preseason game.
17:49Arizona's offense looks like, you know, it might be competent with who knows who at quarterback.
17:56Bursette and Minshew completed every pass they threw yesterday.
17:59So the Raiders defense is the worst of all time?
18:02It could be that.
18:02Possibly.
18:03It could be that.
18:04I think it probably does more for the depth players, right?
18:07I think it does more for the guys that, I'm not sure what this player's role is going to be.
18:12Oh, the starters played two drives.
18:15He played every snap.
18:16Okay, that's noteworthy.
18:17Oh, this receiver lined up, the Chargers, I know this is a question.
18:24They're going to play way more two wide receiver sets this year,
18:28and they keep saying Trey Harris is going to be one of them.
18:30Which is the other?
18:31Is it going to be Quentin Johnson or Ladd McConkie?
18:33Probably Ladd McConkie.
18:33Probably Ladd McConkie.
18:35So, or is it going to be a rotation?
18:37And when they play a preseason game, like, that's a little thing, but you'd want to look out for that.
18:44Because if Quentin Johnston's not on the field and two receiver sets, then you might not want to draft Quentin
18:48Johnston in fantasy.
18:49So, I think it would say more about depth players than it would about any star, like Jeremiah Love.
18:55If you are moving him from, you know, he's probably, what is he, a second or a third round pick
19:01right now in fantasy drafts?
19:02If you've got a draft this weekend and after seeing him jump over a Raiders backup in the second quarter,
19:08you decide, I want to pick him sixth in the first round.
19:11Like, that's probably not good process.
19:15That's reacting to the preseason.
19:18And highlights of the preseason even more than just, like, even stats.
19:21That's, I saw him jump over a guy and he looked good and I'm excited about that.
19:24I want him on my team.
19:25I'm going to pick him around earlier than he normally goes.
19:28That probably happens with depth receivers, though.
19:31Right?
19:31That's Malik Benson and, like you said, Deshaun Stribling.
19:33Yep.
19:34If they continue to pop off, you're going to have, whatever, people are going to move him up in their
19:38drafts.
19:39Colby Young, the fourth round rookie for the Bengals, he had a nice third and 16 conversion I saw yesterday.
19:46Good for him.
19:47He caught some passes.
19:49He's kind of blocked.
19:50They've got some good receivers.
19:51One o'clock Saturday for the Bills and the Carolina Panthers.
19:54I, we kind of jokingly mentioned it.
19:57The thing to me that is the most interesting thing to find out in this game is what the sun
20:02does in the stadium.
20:03And I, really, that's the number one thing I am most interested in, shadows.
20:09And I thought about this, you know, we talked on the show maybe yesterday, the day before, how many things
20:14I wonder.
20:15And I told you how I'm constantly thinking and wondering.
20:18I thought this, when we had Jonathan Malley, the populace lead designer on earlier in the week, I didn't ask
20:24this exact question, but I should have asked this, which is the canopy is small, smallish, right?
20:30It covers 62% of the seats or whatever the number is.
20:33People kind of found out that maybe it doesn't cover as much as they thought.
20:37But is a part of the reason they did that was to minimize shadows?
20:42Because it's not a small hole over the field.
20:44It's a pretty wide one.
20:45The old stadium, of course, had no cover.
20:47So the sun's on the field at all times.
20:49You almost never got shadows on the field.
20:52I can't ever remember a shadow on the field.
20:54Never.
20:54In any angle, anywhere.
20:56And the new one is going to be, there's definitely going to be shadows on the field, I think.
21:01But if that canopy is far enough back, the shadow only actually shows up when the sun goes behind the
21:09top of the stadium.
21:10So it'll be different from August to December because the sun moves in the sky south.
21:17But I'm really eager to find out.
21:20That, I think I would agree, is number one.
21:22Am I the only nerd that cares about the shadows on the field?
21:26I want to know if my seat is in the shade or is it directly into the sun.
21:30And the field, right?
21:31Because if I'm at home watching a game on TV, there's nothing more annoying than watching a sporting event on
21:36TV
21:36when half the field is in the sun and the other is in the shade.
21:40Can we figure out camera technology at this point to have that look better?
21:47I mean, we've got advertisements on the hockey boards that don't exist during broadcasts.
21:56And yet, oh, half the field is in the sun, so every time the ball is there, I can't see
22:00it.
22:01Because of the, what?
22:02The white balance?
22:03What's the reason?
22:04The brightness?
22:05Why can't I see it as well as I should when it's on TV that way?
22:09So I'm rooting for that to not be the case.
22:12The other thing I'm mentally preparing for also for Monday is for everybody.
22:15The parade?
22:16I might even join the parade.
22:17I'm not sure.
22:18Of this team needs to go sign a different backup quarterback because their backup quarterbacks are so bad.
22:25Because there's been some of that at training camp I saw.
22:28Who is it going to be?
22:31Kyle Allen versus Shane Buchel not delivering like you want?
22:36Just, you know, just being ready for they both struggle and someone's bringing up Ryan Tannehill on Monday.
22:44Or, wait, we need a new name for that.
22:47Sorry, I need a new name for that.
22:48By someone, do you mean you?
22:50Yeah, maybe.
22:51Do you still have the bet that Ryan Tannehill starts a Super Bowl or is that show?
22:54Mike paid it.
22:55Oh, he paid that out.
22:56Mike paid.
22:56I mean, he hasn't played in, he's not retired, but he hasn't played in three years now.
23:00I mean, hey, Phillip Rivers can come back.
23:02Anybody can come back.
23:03We have to leave that door open.
23:06He just vanished.
23:07He didn't announce a retirement.
23:08He didn't join another team as a backup.
23:10He just went away.
23:13803-0550 if you want to give us a call.
23:16One, yeah, one phone number.
23:18We have one phone number.
23:19It's called, it's that one.
23:21803-0550.
23:22Jeremy and Joe coming up at 7.
23:24Paul Hamilton, he'll recap Bill's practice from yesterday.
23:27All the things that Joe Brady said.
23:29Goals they have for this game.
23:30Against Carolina, we get our first chance to look at them as a team.
23:34Underhead coach Joe Brady, he needs.
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