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00:00Parties in the matter of St. Germain versus Old. Step forward, please.
00:0422-year-old dental assistant Kylie St. Germain is suing her ex-boyfriend,
00:09water treatment technician Jonathan Old, for an unpaid loan to have his teeth fixed
00:13and for the cost of a New Orleans hotel room.
00:17Ms. St. Germain, this gentleman was your boyfriend for a while,
00:20and according to your complaint, he owes you the balance of some dental work
00:24that you put on a credit card.
00:26And in addition, you say he pulled some sort of a scam when you were on vacation.
00:31You put some hotel rooms on a credit card, going away with a large group of people,
00:37and the next day he collected the cash from all the people that were with you,
00:41and instead of paying the hotel room in cash,
00:45he left it on your credit card and pocketed the cash.
00:48All right.
00:49The defendant says that he paid off the dental work
00:52and that he did not collect any money from the people that you were on vacation with,
00:58that the people that you were on vacation with stiffed you for the hotel room.
01:02That's his defense. Is that right, sir?
01:04Yes, ma'am.
01:05Did you live together?
01:06Yes, ma'am.
01:07For how long?
01:08About two and a half years.
01:09What kind of dental work did he need?
01:11He needed to have some wisdom teeth pulled, two times had to replace a flipper.
01:16What's a flipper?
01:18Just a missing tooth appliance.
01:20A missing tooth appliance?
01:22Yes, ma'am.
01:23You mean like a bridge?
01:24Yes, ma'am.
01:25Oh, okay. Like a bridge. It's called a flipper?
01:28Yes, ma'am.
01:30And how much was all this dental work, sir?
01:32I don't know. She took care of my bills. All I know is I paid her.
01:36Mr. Rold, you're going to explain to me how this worked. You lived together, is that right?
01:39Yes, ma'am.
01:40And you had a job, I assume?
01:41Yes, ma'am.
01:42And how much were you earning?
01:44Monthly. I assume around $2,000.
01:45And how much money did you give to Ms. St. Germain for bills?
01:49About $500 or $600.
01:50Were you saving a lot of money?
01:52No.
01:53Well, if you were giving her $500 to $600 a month, what were you doing with the other $1,500?
01:58Spending it, partying, drinking.
02:01How come he needed money for his dental work?
02:03I had bad credit.
02:05He had bad credit. He needed a co-signer. He didn't have the money to come up with it up
02:09front, so I co-signed for him.
02:11And he was paying the bill?
02:13Yeah.
02:13Until when?
02:15Until February.
02:15What was the balance left on the bill in February?
02:19It was $656.35.
02:22And how much was the bill initially?
02:25$2,375.
02:27So he made a lot of payments?
02:29Mm-hmm.
02:30Yes, ma'am.
02:31You made a lot of payments?
02:32Yes, ma'am.
02:33What did you stop for?
02:34Just, I guess we split up and I didn't get around to it.
02:39Now let's get to the unauthorized use of the credit card. What is your name?
02:44Chris Darrow.
02:45Were you on the trip with them?
02:46Yes, ma'am.
02:47So how did I know that? Smart lady. Step up. How many people went on the trip?
02:55Um, eight.
02:55Where did you stay?
02:58The, uh, park on St. Charles.
03:01You were in New Orleans?
03:02Yes, ma'am.
03:03Everybody having a gay old time?
03:05Fun time.
03:06Good.
03:09That's what I meant.
03:10Yeah, that's what I thought you meant.
03:11Yeah, I think things have a double meaning when you're younger these days.
03:14You have to sort of watch what you say.
03:16Mm-hmm.
03:16I think so.
03:17Anyway, you put the hotel room on your credit card.
03:20I reserved the room.
03:21You reserved the room.
03:22And everybody was supposed to kick in the money at the end and pay in cash.
03:27Now, did you in fact pay cash for the room?
03:30Yes, ma'am.
03:30Who did you pay the cash to?
03:32John.
03:33John.
03:34How much did you give him?
03:36$100.
03:37And what was the cost of the hotel room?
03:39Um, it was $803.66.
03:42What about your $100?
03:45I wasn't told that I was supposed to pay $100.
03:47He told me to reserve the credit card on, um, to reserve the room on the credit card.
03:52And he would take care of it at the end when we left.
03:55Well, he was collecting money from everybody.
03:57He collected money from him.
03:59That's it.
04:00That's it?
04:01Yeah.
04:01Well, you didn't say that here in your answer.
04:03You said that all the people stiffed her.
04:06But it's not just him.
04:08That's him and your $100, too.
04:10Right?
04:10Yes, ma'am.
04:11So if I believed you, that would mean that $200 at least should have gone to pay this bill.
04:16And only $600 should have been on the credit card.
04:19But there was $800 on the credit card.
04:22Are you following me?
04:24Yes, ma'am.
04:25Am I right?
04:26Yes, ma'am.
04:26I hate when they're so polite.
04:28It's hard to yell at them.
04:31Did you see anybody else give him money?
04:33No, ma'am.
04:35I did speak with my friends who were with us.
04:37I know them all.
04:38And they...
04:39Well, that's sort of hearsay.
04:41Right?
04:42Right.
04:43Well, you know their names, don't you?
04:45Yes.
04:45And if I were to call them, do you think, Mr. Old, that they would tell me that they
04:50gave you money or they didn't give you money?
04:53I don't know.
04:54Well, I'm going to ask you, sir.
04:57I don't know.
04:57I mean, because some of them...
05:02Mr. Old...
05:02I don't speak to some of them.
05:04No, but that's not my question, sir.
05:05I didn't ask whether you spoke to them, whether you dated them, whether you ate with them,
05:09whether you socialized with them.
05:11That's not of particular interest to me.
05:13My question to you is a simple one.
05:15This gentleman knows the names of all those people.
05:18You just testified a moment ago and put in your answer that nobody gave you money,
05:24but clearly this young man gave you $100 that you didn't put towards the hotel room.
05:28No.
05:29And you had your stay of $100 that you should have put towards the hotel room,
05:33and clearly you didn't do that, right?
05:36Yes.
05:36So my question to you is, if I were to go in my chambers and pick up the telephone
05:41and call any of the other people...
05:43They would say they didn't pay me.
05:44They would say they didn't pay you.
05:47Yeah.
05:48Can I have the names and telephone numbers of any one of those people?
05:52Yes, ma'am.
05:54You can do it.
05:58Okay.
05:59Chris, I don't know his last name.
06:01And it's 337-5.
06:12Judge Judy continues in a moment.
06:17Okay.
06:19Well, according to Chris, he gave $75 to Norma.
06:23He didn't give any money to Jonathan.
06:26I don't know what kind of an arrangement he had.
06:28In any event, certainly I know that $200 should have been turned over to the plaintiff.
06:34$200 plus the $656.30 is $856.30.
06:39$656 is for his dental work.
06:41Anything else you want to tell me?
06:43The hotel was under his name.
06:45Yes.
06:46And he was supposed to be, you know, he was supposed to pay the bill.
06:52He said nobody gave him any money.
06:55His money, his money.
06:58Got it?
06:59Don't use your credit card anymore.
07:01Use your credit card to get stiff.
07:03Judgment for the plaintiff in the amounts of $856.30.
07:07Part of the job skews.
07:08You need to step out.
07:10Couldn't pay his bills.
07:12Too much pardon.
07:12I still have credit card debt.
07:14He's such a payer.
07:16Computer programmer Jeremy Hulse is suing businessman Greg Hummel for a refund on a horse.
07:23Jeremy claims the horse had not been broken as promised.
07:33Guys, this is case number 465 on the calendar, the man of Hulse v. Hummel.
07:37Parties have been sworn in, judge.
07:38You may be seated.
07:39Gentlemen, have seats.
07:40Mr. Hulse, it is your claim that the defendant sold you a horse that you specifically requested be a tame
07:47horse because the horse was for your father.
07:49Yes.
07:50That turned out to be a wild horse.
07:51Exactly.
07:52That couldn't be ridden.
07:53No.
07:54And Mr. Hummel says you don't get a refund.
07:57You had an opportunity to ride the horse.
08:00Must be something wrong with your riding ability.
08:02Probably.
08:03Is that right, sir?
08:04Yep.
08:05Yes, ma'am.
08:06Yes, ma'am is better than you.
08:08How long have you been in the horse business, Mr. Hummel?
08:10I'm not really in the horse business.
08:12I have a small ranch that we use horses for lots of different things.
08:17We hunt and do lots of trail riding on the horses.
08:20The horses are ridden by a lot of people, young people, people that can't ride very well.
08:25How many horses do you have?
08:26Right now, I have six horses.
08:29And at the time, Mr. Hulse bought his horse.
08:31How many horses did you have?
08:33Seven horses.
08:34And why were you selling?
08:35Well, because I needed some money.
08:36It was getting close to Christmas, and I needed some money.
08:40Did you put an ad in the paper?
08:41I put an ad on a local website.
08:44Okay.
08:44Can I see a copy of the ad, please?
08:53The title says, Well Broke Horses.
08:55For sale, Well Broke Horses.
08:58Prices vary.
09:00Okay.
09:00So you were selling five of your horses?
09:03That's correct.
09:04Did you sell all five?
09:05No.
09:06How many horses did you sell?
09:07Thus far, I've sold three of them.
09:09Well, my math isn't that great, as Bert can attest, but if you have six horses now, and
09:14you had seven horses then, and you sold three...
09:16I've picked up a couple more horses, though.
09:18So you bought some more?
09:19Yep.
09:19When did you buy the other horses, sir?
09:21About a week ago.
09:22From where?
09:23From a friend of mine.
09:25Okay.
09:26Now, what did you want a horse for, Mr. Hulse?
09:28Some of my friends and I have gone in on some horses.
09:31My dad was looking to join our little group and buy another horse to ride.
09:36He's totally inexperienced.
09:37How old is your father?
09:3955.
09:40A baby.
09:42So he's an inexperienced rider, and you want him to have a...
09:45Yes.
09:46And a little bit heavier, so we wanted a stout horse.
09:48Tell me what happened when you answered the ad.
09:51I called Greg on the 10th of December, around 12 o'clock, told him I was interested to come
09:56out that day and look at some horses.
09:58He said he'd have some saddled and ready by 2 o'clock.
10:01So Ryan and I went to his ranch, and we said we were looking for a horse that was on
10:05the
10:05lower end of the $1,000, $1,500 range.
10:09He showed us two horses that were in that range.
10:11He told us that Angel, the horse we ended up getting, was on the lower end of that range
10:14because she didn't have papers.
10:16Where did you get this horse from?
10:17From a buddy in Cleveland, Utah.
10:19When?
10:20Quite some time ago.
10:21I can't tell you the exact...
10:22I've had the horse for quite a while.
10:23Well, years.
10:25Give me some idea.
10:26Close to a year.
10:27Well, that's not so long, sir.
10:28No.
10:29What's the person's name that you bought the horse from?
10:31Richard.
10:33How much did you pay for the horse?
10:34I paid $900 for the horse.
10:36Now, the other horse that you showed the plaintiff, where did you get that horse from?
10:41Same person.
10:42When?
10:43Same time.
10:44So you bought the two horses together?
10:45That's correct.
10:46How much did you pay for the second horse?
10:47The same.
10:48Did you buy any of your other horses from Mr. D?
10:51Yeah, but what does this have to do with this horse?
10:53I ask the questions.
10:54You answer the questions.
10:56Of course I have.
10:57Are any of the other six horses that are now in your possession, horses that you bought
11:01for Mr. D?
11:02Yes, ma'am.
11:03How many?
11:03All of them.
11:04So you bought all your horses for Mr. D?
11:06Yes, he's a very close friend, and we ride a lot together.
11:09Did you ride the horse, Mr. Hulse?
11:11Yes.
11:12And is your father about your stature?
11:14No.
11:14Is he larger or smaller?
11:16He's heavier and shorter.
11:18So you were satisfied.
11:19Now, what happened after you bought the horse?
11:21We paid Greg the money that day.
11:23The next morning, around 9 o'clock, Ryan and I went to trailer the horse, and the horse
11:28took us about two hours to get her in the trailer.
11:30It checked it like she'd never seen a trailer before.
11:32By that time, Greg had already cashed our check, and we tried calling him a few times
11:36to let him know the problem.
11:38We couldn't get a hold of him.
11:39Well, I don't understand.
11:40Didn't you go back to where the horse was?
11:43Yes.
11:43Where was he?
11:44He wasn't there.
11:45Was that work?
11:46He gave us permission to go get...
11:47He knew he wasn't going to be there.
11:49So you called him?
11:50Yes.
11:50And what did he say when you called him?
11:52He didn't answer.
11:53We finally got the horse in.
11:54We cajoled her with some oats and stuff, and then dropped her off at our field, and
11:59then Monday, we tried to saddle her, and...
12:02Now, when you went to view this horse for the first time on the 10th of December, did
12:07you tell Mr. Hummel what you wanted the horse for?
12:10Yes.
12:10What did you tell him?
12:11I told him that my dad was going to be making the purchase, and that he has no experience,
12:16and so we need just a leisure horse that anybody can ride.
12:20Okay.
12:21Now, I see that you have a video.
12:23I do.
12:23I'd like to see it, please.
12:31Your Honor, may I make a comment on this video?
12:33Yeah, tell me who you are.
12:34My name's Adam Marriott.
12:35I'm one of the riders in the video.
12:37I'd just like to say a few things as we watch it.
12:39Are you a friend of his?
12:40Is that what you...
12:41I am, yeah.
12:42You see here, Ryan right here, he's the rider right now, going up to the horse, and she
12:46pins her ears back, which means she's angry, and then obviously you can see she kicks.
12:50That could be dangerous.
12:51I mean, we're about to put up a beware of horse sign in front of the pasture.
12:55Judge, can I say something, or is this their turn?
12:57No, it's their turn.
12:58Okay, as we saddled the horse, he has to hold her head really tight or else she'll turn
13:01around and bite us.
13:02And so we put it on pretty gently, and here she goes, trying to stomp on us and rear up
13:07a little bit.
13:08So we ride about 10 paces, try to turn her head very gently, and she starts bucking.
13:12You see I'm swaying with her just to stay on, and here she goes, she rears up.
13:16Okay, and that was you riding the horse?
13:18That was me riding.
13:18Are you an experienced rider, sir?
13:20I am.
13:20Okay.
13:21Now it's your turn.
13:22Okay.
13:22When they came over to my ranch, we saddled up two horses.
13:27I had an inexperienced employee of mine get on the horse first, rode the horse around.
13:32They got on the horse, him and those two, and rode off my property away from the herd.
13:37If a horse is going to act up, it's going to be during that time period when you pull it
13:39away from a herd.
13:40How do you account, sir, for that kind of behavior?
13:44Okay, let me finish.
13:44They rode their horse off my property for quite some time.
13:47They came back and said, we want this horse.
13:49I understand that that's what you're saying, sir.
13:51I can get a horse to do that.
13:53It looks like they're inexperienced people, and maybe, I don't know what they've done
13:57to the horse.
13:57It's an animal.
13:58It's a living thing.
13:59It's not a machine.
14:01The horse never acted like that prior.
14:03I've had little kids on the horse, inexperienced people on the horse, and they rode the horse.
14:07When did you first contact Mr. Hummel and tell him that you were having difficulty with
14:12the horse?
14:12Three days.
14:13I have my phone log right here showing the cell phone that matches the ad.
14:17It's highlighted.
14:18Three days after we purchased the horse.
14:21He told us the horse was in heat, that it was away from the herd, it needed to calm down.
14:26He kept referring to the horse as a sweetheart.
14:28But, I mean, she just progressively got worse.
14:31And we gave him a week.
14:32I just believed him for a week.
14:33Judge Judy continues in a moment.
14:36He says, fellow horse owner Greg Hummel sold him a horse that had not been broken.
14:41Okay.
14:42When you called him again and said that her behavior hadn't changed, what did he say?
14:46He just was saying, what do you want me to do?
14:48What do you want from me?
14:49And so I said, I want my money back.
14:50I want you to take your horse back.
14:52She's not well broke.
14:53He accused me of calling him a liar and he wanted me to call back and apologize to him.
14:57Well, he's not telling the truth.
14:58I offered him another horse out of the seven.
15:01I said, come and bring the horse back.
15:02He offered Rose.
15:03Rose.
15:03Let me finish.
15:05He's had quite a bit of time.
15:06Absolutely.
15:07We sat there and saddled those horses up right in front of him.
15:10I understand that, sir.
15:11I'm not calling you a liar.
15:12No, no.
15:12I'm not suggesting that you...
15:14Listen to me.
15:15I'm not calling you a liar at this moment.
15:19I don't believe everything that you're telling me about your friend in Utah with the horses
15:23because I can tell when somebody is not telling me the whole truth.
15:26There's something strange about that and I'm not exactly sure what it is,
15:30but there's something peculiar about it.
15:32But I'm not accusing you of doing anything before they arrive.
15:37Put your hand down.
15:38I'm sorry.
15:38Don't you notice that I see you?
15:39I'm in the middle of talking.
15:41Yes, ma'am.
15:43I'm not accusing you of doing anything, sir.
15:45He may accuse you of maybe giving this horse a little something to calm it down while he was there.
15:51I didn't say that at all.
15:53All I'm suggesting is there's something fishy with regard to your story about where you get all your horses
15:58and when you bought them.
15:58Why is that fishy?
15:59Because I could tell from your gate, sir.
16:01That's what I do for a living.
16:02I've been doing it for 35 years.
16:04I can tell when somebody's not telling me the whole truth, Mr. Hummel.
16:08And whatever else you did today with regard to your story about where you got the horses from,
16:13when you got the horses, what you paid for them, and how long you've had them,
16:16something isn't quite right.
16:18I don't have to necessarily figure out what that is because it's not particularly relevant to this lawsuit.
16:24I understand what you're telling me, that they came, that they saddled up the horses,
16:29that they rode off of your property, that the horse behaved reasonably on your property,
16:35that they came back the next day.
16:37The next day when they came back, they found that there was slight difficulty with the horse,
16:42getting the horse into a trailer.
16:43But that's a possible problem with most horses.
16:46They don't like to go into trailers.
16:48It's a confined space.
16:49They finally got it in.
16:50And practically immediately they called and said to you,
16:53Listen, we answered an ad for a well-broken horse.
16:57I am an experienced rider of horses, and I can't ride them.
17:01And certainly my father can't ride them.
17:04So since you were aware, Mr. Hummel,
17:07that this horse was being purchased for a particular purpose,
17:11you have two choices.
17:12Either you say, Listen, let the buyer beware.
17:15You buy a horse, you buy a horse, you take it as you find it,
17:18and you're stuck with it.
17:19Or a horse must have a warranty, in this case, that it could be ridden,
17:25and it could be ridden by someone who is inexperienced and not a good rider.
17:30And clearly, based upon what I saw, that's not a possibility.
17:34So you're getting your horse back, Mr. Hummel.
17:36Judgment for the plaintiff for the amount of $1,100, which is what you paid.
17:39Is that right?
17:40Bring him back his horse.
17:41That's all.
17:43As I excused, you may step out.
17:45They rode the horse off my property.
17:48Obviously, the guys, maybe his wife said he couldn't have the horse.
17:51He wasn't man enough to deal with the horse and our problems in the first place.
17:55I'm an experienced horseman.
17:56I've been through a fire science program.
17:58It's crazy.
17:58We have five other horses.
18:00They're a dream.
18:01And now, the next one.
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