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00:06I'm nervous about reliving the pain.
00:11I'm nervous about maybe this will trigger a memory that I had suppressed.
00:18But I feel it's important for the world to know my story.
00:38This is a picture of Raina and Nacho on my mom's porch in front of the house.
00:47It's one of my favorite pictures.
00:52Her smile and the way he's like leaning into her.
01:00Honestly, when I look at this photo, I wish I could go back to this time.
01:05I lost two kids on July 14th, 2017.
01:12The murderer is my son, Ignacio, and the victim is my daughter, Raina.
01:19She went to heaven and he went to prison.
01:24It's a pain that, honestly, I don't wish on anybody.
01:35Oh, God, where did you get that?
01:48This is the day he got arrested for murder.
01:56I get the chills.
01:57It's giving me chills right now.
02:00Those dark eyes.
02:03Those soulless eyes.
02:06That smile's gone.
02:08That life's gone.
02:09That spark is gone.
02:12At that point, I hated him.
02:16At that point, I wanted him to suffer.
02:29At that point, I wanted him to suffer.
03:08Being the parent of a murderer is, it's not easy.
03:17It can be lonely as well, because people just don't understand.
03:22Anytime your child is sentenced to prison, it's not only your child.
03:26That's the way I see it.
03:27It's not only your child, it's you too.
03:29You're sentenced as well.
03:32I'm sure that there was something that I didn't do.
03:34I'm sure that there was something more I could have done.
03:40Something.
03:42If you ask me if I'm a good or bad mom, I will tell you I'm a bad mom.
03:49It's very frustrating because when you have your, when your baby's born, you say, I'm going to give you the
03:57world.
04:00And when you don't, and when you can't, you feel like a failure.
04:06How was I not able to help him?
04:09If I knew he was going through all this, why didn't I protect Raina better?
04:13It's a pain that, that is beyond anything.
04:20Because your child is taking your other child's life.
04:37This is the picture of Ignacio.
04:41And that was his typical smile all the time.
04:46This kid smiled at a drop of a dime, I swear.
04:50These are the little chimpanzees.
04:56When Ignacio was born, as soon as I saw his little face, I just, I just fell in love with
05:01him.
05:02And I thought he was the most perfect little baby in the whole world.
05:05And I did think to myself, I'm going to give you everything you want.
05:10You are not going to know the word no.
05:16He had the chunkiest little face.
05:17And when he would smile, his little cheeks would just pop up.
05:20And he was my little chim monk.
05:44I still say I have three kids.
05:49And I still say that she's 15.
05:52When they ask me, if they ask me their ages, she's 15.
05:55And Rodrigo's 23 and Nacho's 26.
06:00Both Ignacio and Rodrigo love their baby sister, Marina.
06:06They would take care of her, but more Ignacio.
06:09And when she would cry, he would run, Mama, Little Sugars is crying.
06:16He'd call her Little Sugars.
06:18But it was supposed to be Little Sugar.
06:21But it was his Little Sugars and she was crying and she wanted a bottle or Little Sugars was getting
06:27into something.
06:28But he was very protective of her.
06:31And I miss those days.
06:32I do miss those days.
06:34Our family was always together.
06:37Those were some of the best years of my life.
06:41With me, my husband, my kids.
06:46If I could bottle up those years and just relive them, I would.
06:59Because you still see him as your little boy.
07:01You still see him as that little boy who opened up to you.
07:04Who used to stick up for you.
07:08Who his mom was everything to him.
07:11Maybe wishful thinking.
07:13Hoping that he wasn't capable of that.
07:29When my mom passed away is when I first noticed something different in his behavior at the memorial.
07:40We're all devastated.
07:41We're all broken.
07:42We're all crying.
07:43And he is just sitting, just stoic.
07:46No emotion on his face.
07:49Not one tear rolled down his eye.
07:52Didn't talk.
07:53I remember he was wearing a black hoodie and he had the hoodie on.
07:59And he just sat there.
08:04I did find that unusual that he didn't show any emotion.
08:07Not only because my other two kids were completely devastated.
08:11But because of the bond that he and my mom had.
08:16My mom was a huge part in helping raise him.
08:20And she was a constant in Nacho's life.
08:24And when she passed away and there was no emotion in him, I did find that unbelievable.
08:30I couldn't understand why.
08:35It was concerning to me to see him like that.
08:39And he showed me nothing.
08:42Nothing.
08:43That was the beginning of something way, way more.
08:48That was the moment where he changed.
09:01I get home and Ignacio's already handcuffed and in one of the squad cars.
09:09And Regal is in the house.
09:12The house is a mess, destroyed.
09:15Broken windows, broken TV.
09:18There was a hole in the wall.
09:21I found out that Regal had came home and he saw that the house was, like, destroyed.
09:29And he asked Nacho, in not such a nice way, what he had done.
09:37And Nacho replied in not a very nice way.
09:42And they started getting into a physical fight.
09:47That afternoon was pretty bad.
09:50So did you ever find out why he destroyed everything?
09:54I never found out what made him do that.
10:00I have no idea what made him do that.
10:21I noticed that his sleeping habits had flipped.
10:24He was sleeping during the day and was up all night.
10:31I would tell him that it was time to go to bed.
10:33He said, I want you to go to your room.
10:36And he would.
10:38But as soon as I was gone, he was creeping up again at night, getting up.
10:44And then if I happened to go check on him, he'd run back in his room.
10:50But you could hear him in the living room or the kitchen, so I knew he was awake again.
10:55And then we weren't sleeping because we'd be sleeping with one eye open and one eye closed.
11:02It was weird to all of us because we had never seen him like that.
11:07Sometimes I was even scared to, like, ask him, what are you doing?
11:11I do look back on that moment, and I wish that I would have.
11:15But it wasn't him anymore.
11:16You could tell in his face.
11:17You could tell in his eyes that it wasn't him anymore.
11:20It wasn't the Ignacio de Nacho that I knew.
11:36Ignacio loved baseball.
11:39Baseball was life for Ignacio.
11:42Baseball was everything.
11:45When Ignacio was about seven or eight years old, his little team didn't have a coach,
11:50so I stepped up and I started coaching.
11:52And this is where, this is one of the fields where we used to practice.
12:00Reina thought Ignacio was the best baseball player in the world.
12:04If she wasn't as loud as me, she was louder.
12:09She loved it, and she made sure everybody knew that Nacho was her brother.
12:14Ignacio was chosen to play varsity in high school as a freshman.
12:18And, of course, we were very proud of him.
12:21And I would have liked to have seen him at least in the minors.
12:25I honestly did.
12:26He was that good.
12:28I was so proud of him.
12:34They're happy but sad memories at the same time.
12:53He also had made up his mind that he wasn't going to go to school.
12:57And when I found out, I tried talking, my husband tried talking.
13:02But you can only talk so much.
13:06I could not have a conversation with him anymore.
13:09It got to the point where he would just shrug his shoulders.
13:19How do I force him to go to school?
13:23I don't know.
13:24I didn't know.
13:25So he didn't have my blessing, but I didn't do anything to stop it.
13:28I wasn't okay with it.
13:29I wasn't happy with it.
13:32And he said he just, it didn't matter to him.
13:38I feel like it's just a wasted life, a waste talent.
13:42That is one of the hardest things.
13:44That's one of the things that hurts me.
13:46Because I knew how smart he was.
13:50And, again, I feel like I'm partly responsible for that.
13:56For him not getting there.
14:11One afternoon, Ignacio and I had got into an argument.
14:15He wanted me to give him money.
14:18And I refused.
14:19Well, he threw a little fit, threw a tantrum.
14:23He had a, like a 32-ounce, 40-ounce sports drink bottle in his hand.
14:32It was full.
14:35And, mind you, he used to play baseball and used to pitch.
14:38He grabbed that bottle and flung it right at me.
14:43And he hit me hard.
14:45It hit me hard.
14:46I had a big red well on the side.
14:52And I felt very sad.
14:56And I told Raina, I said, call the police.
14:59I'm not taking this from him.
15:00Call the police.
15:02She was afraid of him.
15:03I knew she was afraid of him.
15:04She was.
15:05She had told me.
15:06And she didn't like to be alone in the house with him.
15:09So he got arrested and released the next day.
15:12And he came home.
15:20There was no apology.
15:24And no, charges were not pressed.
15:28Dad wanted to have him in jail and kept there and stayed there.
15:32Whereas me, Mom, the heart of a mother, protect your kid.
15:37And no, no, he's my baby.
15:43I feel like a failure because I feel like he should know better.
15:47And I feel like it was my job to make sure he knew and not to take that route.
15:56That's your job as a parent.
15:59And I didn't do something right with him.
16:05At times, I wanted to shake him and yell at him and tell that person to give me my son
16:12back.
16:25There was one time where it was in the morning and I was on my way to work and I
16:32was going to leave.
16:34And he was up.
16:35He had slept.
16:37And I was going to leave.
16:39And I told him that I was leaving to please, let's make this a good day.
16:45And he looked at me.
16:48He looked at me like he hated me.
16:52And he said to me, I hope you get in a car accident.
16:56I hope a diesel hits you and you get in a car accident.
17:02And I had to go to work.
17:06It hurts because, you know, as a mom, you know who he was, how he was so lovable, the little
17:15chipmunk with the little cheeks and the big smile.
17:21And his mom was everything and, and then to wish something like that or tell you something like that.
17:28And I cried all the way to work.
17:33And I cried and I asked God, why?
17:37And I asked God to help me.
17:39Because I knew that wasn't my son.
17:58So this little thing here is a, is this little throw blanket that I made.
18:12I made it myself.
18:14I didn't know where to start.
18:18I didn't know what I was going to do.
18:24But I had all her shirts.
18:29And I knew I couldn't get rid of them or give them away.
18:39So I decided to make a blanket.
18:53But when I have it, I feel like she's with me.
18:56I feel like I'm hugging her.
18:59I mean, it's not as good as her, obviously, but her shirts being close to me give me comfort.
19:06And I still have one shirt that I've never washed because I want her to smell on it still.
19:15Sometimes I'll get that smell and I'm afraid that the smell is going to go away one day.
19:37This picture here, this Nacho, I think he might have been a freshman here.
19:44And, um, he was still good.
19:49He's wearing a rosary on his neck.
19:52He was raised Catholic.
19:54We didn't go to church faithfully, but we did go.
19:57He was baptized.
20:00Hmm.
20:02That gets me thinking.
20:03I talked about how he had told me he had sold his soul to the devil.
20:09But in this picture, he's wearing a rosary.
20:18One night, I had come out of my room.
20:22And as I got to the end of the hallway, I saw him standing in front of the snowy TV,
20:29the snowy screen on the TV.
20:33And he's standing there with his arms crossed, looking at the snow, at no picture.
20:40And I kind of just stopped and looked over at him.
20:44At that time, I don't think it was drugs.
20:47He was completely gone.
20:49Like, his mental health was gone.
20:51At that point, I thought, okay, my son is possessed.
20:58Maybe that is some kind of evil, I don't know.
21:04Those are the thoughts that were going through my head.
21:07I was even scared to, like, ask him, what are you doing?
21:10He just kind of looked at me.
21:14He told me that he had sold his soul to the devil.
21:19I was speechless.
21:21It was scary.
21:23It was scary because I don't believe you should be playing with that stuff.
21:27I believe that once you even have an idea of that stuff, that you're asking for evil to come into
21:35your life.
21:39I do believe you embrace the darkness and you invite it to come into your life.
21:43And that's when bad things happen.
21:46And who knows, maybe, I don't know, maybe now that I say it, I think about that.
21:53Maybe that's when evil came into our life.
21:57And it just, it's just hitting me now, now that we're talking about it, that maybe that, that was something
22:05that had to do with why he did what he did.
22:08Really?
22:10Just now?
22:10Just now.
22:12Just, just kind of exploring, answering your questions.
22:15It's starting to hit me that, oh, because he said that he sold his soul to the devil.
22:20So, he opened that realm, that window, and that was the evil that came in.
22:39I'm, uh...
22:49Right now, I kind of want to scream.
22:53I feel, I feel this weight on me, and I kind of want to just get up and scream.
23:00It's what I'm feeling right now.
23:02It's just kind of hitting me, like...
23:06Maybe that's what happened.
23:08I hadn't put two and two together until now, right now, this moment.
23:14And it's...
23:17And my chest hurts.
23:20And I kind of want to pull out my hair.
23:26And I want to punch something.
23:31And I want to scream.
23:35And I'm trying real hard to just...
23:40Breathe.
23:43Do you want to take a breath?
23:47Yeah.
23:49Yeah.
24:15So, pretty much like all the other times he got arrested,
24:18which I think was...
24:20three times, maybe?
24:22He was always released the next day.
24:26And I picked him up once.
24:29And that was the time where I told him that he couldn't come home,
24:33because we couldn't take it anymore.
24:35And I told him to get out of my car.
24:36I was going to leave him at the homeless shelter.
24:42And I told him to get out of my car.
24:46And he looked at me.
24:49But he was...
24:50He was smiling.
24:54But he looked at me like,
24:55Are you serious?
24:57And I told him,
24:58Get out of my car.
24:59And he got out of my car.
25:01And he walked around towards the back.
25:04And I'm looking in my rearview mirror.
25:07And my heart is breaking.
25:11I just couldn't leave him there,
25:13just not knowing what would happen to him.
25:15I couldn't...
25:17I couldn't live with myself.
25:20Even after all that.
25:22And I rolled down my window,
25:23and I told him to get back in my car, damn it.
25:26Because I couldn't leave him there.
25:33So he got back in the car,
25:35and I took him home.
25:38Kicking my son out of the house was never an option.
25:48And my mom would have never done that with us.
25:52My mom didn't teach us to be that way.
25:55And I don't believe in that either.
25:58And he's my son.
26:00I cannot go to bed at night
26:02not knowing where my son is
26:04or what he's going through.
26:06Has he eaten?
26:08Is he okay?
26:08Is he alive?
26:09Is he hurt?
26:10So that was not an option for me.
26:29The whole time,
26:30the kids were, like, so uncomfortable.
26:31They were not happy that he was there.
26:34Shortly after that,
26:35Reyna had a dream
26:37that Ignacio had killed me,
26:39and she told me about it.
26:42And I...
26:45I didn't...
26:46I didn't shrug it off,
26:48but I assured her
26:49that it would never happen.
26:52She was convinced
26:53that he was going to do something to me.
26:55And because it was me
26:57and it wasn't her,
27:00I didn't feel an urgency
27:02to do anything about it.
27:05I feel guilty
27:05that I didn't listen to her.
27:22This picture is
27:24of my baby girl.
27:29And there, Reyna.
27:32She looks a lot like me.
27:38cult song
27:38We went to Hawaii to celebrate her 15th birthday.
27:43In this picture, she's sitting on a boat.
27:46We're getting ready to go out to the ocean
27:51to go swim with the turtles.
27:56Oh, my gosh. It was so much fun.
27:59I mean, it was something that we did once,
28:02and something to experience. I'm glad we did it.
28:07She wanted to go back, definitely wanted to go back, and I did too.
28:12Thankfully, I didn't make that promise to her.
28:20It's something you never expect to hear.
28:22Ignacio Estrada charged with killing his only sister last Friday,
28:26shooting her inside the Phoenix home they shared.
28:29Police found her body inside her bedroom,
28:31and her brother with the gun still in his hands.
28:41The day I left work, I'm driving.
28:45I feel like something's wrong.
28:47I pull up to the front of my house.
28:49I jump out of the car, and I hear moaning.
28:53I go into the living room, and right where you walk into my living room,
28:57I look down, and I see my husband and Ignacio on the floor.
29:02And my husband is still in his work clothes, and he's drenched in sweat.
29:07And he's, like, on Ignacio.
29:10And I drop my purse.
29:12I'm like, what is going on?
29:14My husband says, he tried to kill me.
29:18And I go, what do you mean he tried to kill you?
29:20With what?
29:21And he goes, a gun.
29:23And I said, a gun?
29:25Where, where's the gun?
29:27And he's like, it's under us.
29:31I call 911.
29:33The 911 operator tells me she has police on the way.
29:39And still this whole time, I'm not thinking about Reina.
29:46Or where she's at.
29:51The police get there, and one of them secures the gun.
29:55It's a shotgun.
29:57And the other one gets Nacho.
30:01And so my husband gets up, and they handcuff Nacho on the floor sitting there.
30:09And I'm looking down at him, and one of them asks,
30:13is there anybody else in the house?
30:15And that's when I'm like, Reina.
30:17I asked Nacho, where's Reina?
30:20And he says, she's in her room.
30:24And so me and my husband run to her room.
30:29And her door is locked.
30:33But there's a, there's a bullet hole through the door.
30:40And so my husband moves me, and he kicks the door down.
30:47And I remember at that point, I couldn't see anything.
30:50I couldn't see anything.
30:51Everything was black.
30:54And I look down, and all I see is her leg.
30:57And then I saw, like, smeared blood.
31:00And I start screaming.
31:03I start screaming, my baby, my baby.
31:07I took Nacho and killed her.
31:15They had already taken Nacho, and I was yelling at him.
31:20And I was telling him that he was going to fry.
31:27And I was banging on the window, and I was telling him, you're going to fry,
31:29you're going to fry for this.
31:35I think I was just so sad and broken that I couldn't feel anything for him.
31:42Because I was feeling all these emotions because my baby girl was gone.
31:48So for him, I couldn't feel.
31:53Never, never crossed my mind.
31:55It never crossed my mind that he would, he would do something like that.
32:11The next day, I found out that his plan was to kill the whole family.
32:17He didn't deny anything.
32:18He said he didn't.
32:20And his plans were to kill us all.
32:24He never came face to face with her.
32:26His room and her bedroom share a wall.
32:29And he pointed the gun at the wall and shot and hit her.
32:35And then he went around to her bedroom door, but it was locked.
32:39And he shot once and there, and he hit her again, I believe, through the bedroom door.
32:52I feel like I didn't do enough for either one of them.
32:58I feel like, I feel like maybe I should have had an escape plan for Reyna in case of an
33:07emergency.
33:10And for him, I should have done more.
33:19I'm not sure we've lost a long time ago.
33:35Since her death, everything is different now.
33:38Everything that was.
33:43It's just not the same. It can't be. Nothing is the same. Everything, every part of my life
33:51has changed somehow. I'm changed. I don't like to go anywhere. I just don't feel like
34:00doing anything anymore. I don't feel like dealing with people.
34:07I just don't. Do I ever look around and basically see my son in some of these kids? Yes.
34:19Always do that. Right now, I don't know if you guys saw the little boy that was outside
34:28looking for stuff on the ground. I don't know if you guys saw him.
34:32I saw my son in him, and I thought to myself, that could be Nacho.
34:49I did see him at the bond hearing, but we were behind a window. He was standing there with
34:54his arms crossed, kind of like he was bothered by being there. I knew that he had planned
35:04to kill us, so I did not feel guilty about telling the judge not to let him out.
35:11So, this isn't an easy thing for me, because I am both his mother and the mother of the victim.
35:19So, I unfortunately lost two kids yesterday. But, I do want to ask you to do not release
35:28him, your honor. I do not feel safe around him.
35:32At that point, all I was feeling was rage. At that point, I hated him. At that point,
35:40I wanted him to suffer.
35:55Something changed. And I can't tell you when, but I ended up forgiving him. And I forgive him.
36:09Some people, I'm sure, are going to ask, how do you forgive him? But he took your daughter's
36:15life. But he killed your daughter. It's weird. Because at the same time, you wonder, is Reyna
36:25going to forgive me? Is Reyna even holding that against me? Would Reyna want me to have a
36:35relationship with him? I don't know how forgiving him helps me. I don't know if it helps me heal.
36:44I don't think, I don't think anything will help me heal. That there's a piece of me missing.
36:50So, I probably won't get that piece back until I see her again.
36:55Oh, excuse me.
37:12Oh, nothing. What are you up to?
37:18Oh, you're waiting for a wreck?
37:20Yeah.
37:22All right. Well, I'm looking at a little picture of a picture of you when you're like,
37:26five years old, next to your sister.
37:31Yeah. You guys are on Nana's porch. And she's on a little turquoise. Do you remember that turquoise,
37:40like plastic horsey? That rocking horse?
37:43Yeah, yeah. I'm looking at that picture right now.
37:52Brigo is at work.
37:57All right, son. Let me let you go, because we've got to finish this, okay?
38:02Okay. Well, you take care of yourself. I love you, too. And God bless you.
38:07Okay. Love you. Bye.
38:14I told him I was looking at the picture of him and his sister and
38:18asked him if he remembered it. And he says yes. But right away, he asked me about his brother,
38:22where his brother was at. So, I think that's kind of his way of deflecting from the situation.
38:37He refuses to talk to me about what he did. I had questions about why. What happened? Why? How could
38:52you?
38:53I still haven't to this day been able to get anything answered, any of my questions answered from him.
39:00Why do you think he did what he did?
39:06That's the $1,000 question.
39:13I don't know. I don't know. Only he knows.
39:17I don't know if I'll ever get an answer from him.
39:22I'll keep trying. Maybe someday he'll give in. Maybe someday when he gets out.
39:30And it's easier for him to talk about maybe. He'll give me an answer.
39:36I think that it hurts him. And possibly I think that if he allows himself to talk about it,
39:45I think he will break down. And I don't think he wants to do that in prison.
39:53I don't want him to talk about it. If it's going to hurt him and I'm not able to be
39:59with him.
40:00Like if it's going to hurt him and he does something crazy. Heaven forbid.
40:14Have you forgiven yourself?
40:23I don't think I have forgiven myself.
40:29I don't know if I ever can.
40:33I feel like somebody reached inside of me, pulled out my heart, cut it into pieces,
40:43stepped on it, and then danced on it.
40:49I have said that I failed. I've said numerous times that I failed as a mother.
40:55I shouldn't be visiting my son in prison.
40:57I shouldn't be visiting my daughter at a cemetery.
41:07And that's my cross to bear.
41:11But I still have hope.
41:13I still have hope that someday I will be with my son again.
41:18I have hope that one day I'm going to see my daughter again.
41:22There's hope.
41:24It's not over.
41:29I don't know what I have been able to see.
41:30So if we're all, it's like this one and IANS,
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