00:00Thank you very much. Yes, joining us now is Menka Gandhi, veteran politician and environmentalist and animal welfare activist for
00:09decades now. Appreciate your joining us, Menka Gandhi. How do you respond to the Supreme Court order?
00:15The court has made it very clear. It's declined to reconsider its order on removal of stray dogs from schools,
00:22hospitals, railways, stations, bus stands, other sensitive public places saying we are prioritizing human safety under Article 21, which guarantees
00:31life and liberty ahead of what perhaps you wanted that to put animal welfare first.
00:40No, practically every single thing the girl before you is wrong. Everything. The facts are wrong. And now you've picked
00:50up the same thing. And let me explain to you. Firstly, this was a sewer motor case. No animal welfare
00:55people went to court. The sewer motor case by the Supreme Court. All right. Number one.
01:00Number two. The Supreme Court has actually manured defeat and they've washed their hands of the matter. In November, they
01:09had ordered that they had ordered five things. Please understand. They had said make ABC centers. That means dog sterilization
01:18centers. Make shelters and remove dogs from four areas. Hospitals, railway stations, colleges and bus stops.
01:27Now, in seven months. Now, in seven months, even after they called a special meeting of the chief of the
01:33chief secretaries, not a single government, state or municipality has done even one, one thing, not even one thing.
01:4354,000 colleges have refused to remove the dogs because they said there's nowhere to put them. Not a single
01:49shelter has been made. Not a single ABC center has been made. In fact, in Delhi, there were 20 ABC
01:55centers.
01:56They have now become 10. So the Supreme Court has finally understood that what it said was extremely impractical. To
02:05make shelters will cost three lakh crores.
02:09The animal welfare people have said nothing. We've just been listening to the Supreme Court rant on. And they're most
02:16welcome to do so.
02:17But today, it's not a new order. They have simply said we wash our hands of this. On the order
02:24we gave on in November has not been applied even 1%. So now from now on, we are closing the
02:31issue. And anybody who has a problem with dogs can go to the high courts.
02:35No, but ma'am, ma'am, ma'am, ma'am, that's your interpretation. The fact is they've not given any
02:40relief. They have refused to reconsider their order on removal of stray dogs from these places, as I said, because
02:47they prioritized public safety above all else.
02:50Now, you may say, of course, this removal is not technically feasible. It's not been done. And yet the Supreme
02:57Court has refused to look at these technical aspects and thereby said we are prioritizing human safety.
03:04Don't you think in that sense that's a setback? That's not what you wanted from the courts.
03:09We haven't challenged it. We are saying that since you have said that they have to be removed from railway
03:17stations and bus stops, please go ahead and do it. Not a single railway station is it possible. It is
03:23not possible in hospitals. It is not possible in colleges.
03:26Now, the Supreme Court can tell me, please go to the moon day after tomorrow in a specially made rocket.
03:32And I can say it's not possible.
03:34Now, none of the things that the Supreme Court said in November are possible. There is only one way. And
03:41we all want the same thing. We all want people to be safe.
03:45We all want animals and humans to live together happily. We do not want to be threatened by each other.
03:52That you will agree.
03:53So what we have suggested all along is that the government in 25 years has not made a single working
04:02functional ABC center except in Lucknow, which has done beautifully.
04:07And there's not been a single complaint from Lucknow for biting for anything.
04:11Now, in everywhere else, there are several things wrong. One is the ABC centers are rubbish.
04:19Secondly, there are 780 districts, of which sterilization centers exist in maybe a hundred.
04:28The number three is there are only 16 NGOs which are trained to do ABC.
04:33The rest are all mafia illegal centers who have been given to relatives of politicians, bureaucrats, who put it on
04:41paper that they are sterilizing, collect the money and don't sterilize.
04:45So what we are saying is, and what we've said all along is, you remove the dogs from wherever the
04:51hell you want to.
04:52But let us get on with the primary problem, which is the reduction of the population by humane methods.
04:59And that is to start in 780 centers, start sterilization centers, train 780 NGOs.
05:09There are four training centers which are lying empty.
05:13Train them and start on it.
05:15Now, in seven months, not a single government person has done anything in spite of the Supreme Court threatening the
05:22chief secretaries, calling special meetings, doing what they could.
05:26Now, the second thing is, this thing that you're building up about dogs being told to be euthanized.
05:33Please remember, you have only said half the sentence.
05:36The Supreme Court has said that please consider euthanasia according to the law.
05:42There is a law since 1960 about euthanasia.
05:45It's in the act.
05:47It's gone to parliament.
05:48And it says that any animal that is considered to be rabid, which means a technical disease like rabies, or
05:59is considered to be incurable, has to be examined by three doctors who will give their written opinion and only
06:09then will action be taken.
06:10And that is what the Supreme Court has said.
06:12It's not said anything new.
06:14The Supreme Court.
06:15Ma'am, ma'am, ma'am, ma'am, I keep your...
06:18Let me finish, Rajeebji.
06:19Yeah, yeah.
06:20Because you, I know you to be, you know, you look into things incisively.
06:24So think about it.
06:26The Supreme Court has said nothing new.
06:28They have simply said, look, you have done nothing about the November order.
06:34Now we are washing our hands of it.
06:36You go back to High Court if you have a problem.
06:38But in the meantime, if you would like to carry on, we have given you an order in November about
06:43these five places.
06:44Just do it.
06:46Every hospital has refused.
06:48Every college has refused.
06:5054,000.
06:51Every railway station has refused.
06:53Because they're saying, if there are no shelters, where can we, A, put the dogs?
06:57Two, we are open grounds.
06:59A bus stop is an open ground.
07:01How do you get a dog out?
07:04That's all.
07:05The answer to this entire problem is ABC, dog sterilization.
07:10Just sensationalizing and saying, oh, the Supreme Court has said something new.
07:14So you believe it's possible to do dog sterilization on the scale that is required?
07:20Because as per government data, India recorded 37 lakh dog bite cases in 2024 and increased from 30 lakh in
07:282023.
07:29And the issue, therefore, which is why the court took it up, Suomoto, presumably, is the increase in dog bites,
07:36the uncontrolled stray dog population.
07:39I see where you're coming from, but you've also got to see the other side.
07:44So you're saying that it is possible to sterilize stray dogs on scale within a finite period of time so
07:50that both issues are addressed.
07:51Am I correct?
07:53If you start this, firstly, all your facts are wrong.
07:56I'll tell you why.
07:58I'll tell you why.
07:58Because you have said them in good faith.
08:01Their 37 lakh figure that was produced in parliament was a figure based on the number of injections given for
08:09anti-rabies.
08:10Now, five injections are given for one dog bite, but they are counted as five.
08:17Five, do you understand?
08:19So therefore, you have to divide 37 lakh by five.
08:24Secondly, it's not necessarily dog bites.
08:27It could be a dog lick.
08:28It could be a monkey bite.
08:30It could be anything.
08:31And they themselves have said that in parliament.
08:34The figure is nowhere near 37 lakh bites, because even if you just divide it by five, you get to
08:41what you get to.
08:42What is 37 lakh divided by five?
08:44Yeah, that's about 5.2 lakhs.
08:467.2 lakhs.
08:487.2 lakhs.
08:497.7.
08:50I'm saying Manu, 8 lakhs.
08:52Manu, 8 lakhs.
08:54Even that, they have said it's not all bites.
08:58So I'm saying the figure would be closer to about between 4 to 5 lakhs.
09:02And maybe even less, because this has been challenged so many times and accepted.
09:06Now, the point is, if for two years, 780 districts get a sterilization center, within two years, you will have
09:16the population will be hugged.
09:18And you will have your problem solved.
09:2210 years ago, there was no.
09:23And also try and understand that the dog population has actually come down this year by 10%.
09:30So it's not a question of uncontrolled breeding or thing.
09:34Delhi had 8 lakh dogs.
09:35Now it has got 80,000.
09:37So you can see the difference.
09:39But the bites are not, bites need to decrease, not the dogs.
09:44And the reason why the bites are increasing is because every single rich colony and municipality is picking up dogs
09:53and throwing them into poor areas.
09:55To give you two examples of just yesterday, Warangal picked up Warangal City.
10:00The municipal commissioner filled trucks of 300 dogs and went and threw them into six villages.
10:07Now, if those dogs don't bite, who will bite?
10:09In the prime minister's own constituency of last night, the senior electrical engineer in his colony, the electrical colony,
10:25announced at 7 o'clock at night, brought in two vans, filled in 50 dogs, saying government servants do not
10:32want dogs in their colonies.
10:33And he went and threw them into a slump.
10:35Now, bites only, only take place when a dog is relocated.
10:41Can I, can I put a fine, I, I, can I therefore put a final question to you, ma'am?
10:46The court's remarks, including its reference to survival of the fittest,
10:51underscores it seemingly its concern over protecting citizens.
10:55You've consistently advocated a humane approach to stray dog management.
11:01Do you believe, though, that unless these courts' tough directives are followed, we're never going to end the problem?
11:08Are you saying the directives, per se, are wrong?
11:11I'm saying the directives, per se, are wrong.
11:13I say that in, I am not advocating a humane, what you call a solution.
11:19I'm advocating a scientific solution.
11:22What do you want?
11:23You and I want the same thing.
11:24We want less dogs.
11:25We want less bites or no bites.
11:28That is all we want.
11:28Now, to get them, we have, how do you get less dogs?
11:32By sterilizing.
11:33How do you get less bites?
11:35By not relocating.
11:36You do not get less bites.
11:38Just let's suppose that everybody listens to what the Supreme Court said in November, which is utter rubbish.
11:46Remove them from hospitals.
11:48Remove them from colleges.
11:49Sounds wonderful.
11:50But if there are no shelters, where will you remove them to?
11:54Wait a minute.
11:54You remove them, you throw them on the roads.
11:56If you throw them on the roads, they become even more dangerous.
12:00I am, I want a solution.
12:02And the solution is simply sterilization.
12:06That's all.
12:06Okay.
12:07I've taken your point, Menka Gandhi.
12:09As I said, this is a debate where it's important to have a dialogue and listen to both sides.
12:14I appreciate, therefore, you joining me and responding to what the Supreme Court said today.
12:19Hang on a bit.
12:20You're putting headlines.
12:21Supreme Court allows euthanasia.
12:23It has not allowed euthanasia.
12:25You're just spreading rubbish now.
12:28No, no.
12:28Man, man.
12:29Supreme Court does not allow euthanasia.
12:31It has not.
12:32It has said that according to the law, it must be according to the law.
12:38It has not allowed it.
12:39Don't spread panic for no reason, please.
12:42Life is dependent.
12:45I appreciate your response, Menka Gandhi.
12:47Good to have you on the show.
12:49Thank you very much.
12:50Bye.
12:51Bye.
12:51Bye.
12:51Bye.
12:51Bye.
12:51Bye.
12:51Bye.
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