- 7 weeks ago
The top focus of this episode of To The Point is the Supreme Court's order mandating the removal of all stray dogs from the streets of the Delhi NCR region to shelters within eight weeks.
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00:00Hello and welcome, you're watching To The Point. I'm Preeti Chowdhury.
00:03Our big focus is on that one order which has come in from the Supreme Court
00:08that has not just Delhi divided, but the country divided.
00:12Where should the stray dogs in Delhi NCR region go?
00:16On the streets or in a shelter? Do we even have a capacity for a shelter?
00:20All of that being discussed here, but first up, let me take you through the headlines.
00:24B.J.P. counters Rahul's vote chowdhury claim, says Sonia Gandhi's name first appeared on voter rolls in 1983,
00:33three years before she officially became an Indian citizen.
00:41Rahul Gandhi claims threat to life over his remarks on Savarkar says,
00:46Complainant, a direct descendant of Nathuram Godse, also alleges his opponents are triggered by vote chowdhury claim.
00:54This is a Mega India Today Independence Day scoop.
01:00Prime Minister Modi's red-fought speech to be tributed to braves.
01:05Operation Sindhu bravery to be the major theme.
01:08Modi may back-restoring Jammu and Kashmir statehood.
01:15Council in Supreme Court raises top court's order on stray dogs before CGI.
01:20Court says matter will be looked into.
01:24Park threatens India again.
01:30Shahbaz Sharif says Pakistan will not allow India to snatch even one drop of its water.
01:40United States hails counter-terror talks with Pakistan.
01:44Claims successful U.S.-Pakistan talks on terror.
01:47U.S. Park discuss ways to counter-terrorist threats.
01:50One order from the top court and two distinctly strong reactions.
02:14The top court diktat, all stray dogs off the streets of Delhi NCR in eight weeks.
02:24A howl of protests from dog lovers and animal rights activists.
02:30A counter-pushback by those wanting a nationwide order, not just restricted to Delhi NCR.
02:42Since the order, protests have broken out at India Gate.
02:46Rescuers, feeders, dog lovers showing up.
02:50So did the cops.
02:53Detentions followed.
02:54Emotions ran high.
02:56The cops armed with top court's order to clear the streets of dogs or face contempt.
03:01A protest that got political, with Lok Sabha, leader of opposition Rahul Gandhi, taking on the top court order as a step backwards,
03:14calling stray dogs not problems to erase, but lives to protect.
03:18He called the order cruel, short-sighted, and inhuman.
03:25But the Delhi Chief Minister Rekha Gupta welcomed the Supreme Court order, calling stray dogs a big problem for Delhi.
03:33In this case, the court has been given to us, it is also very important for us.
03:43It is our only purpose, to keep the people of Delhi.
03:48This problem, which is the state of the state of Delhi, is standing in front of the government,
03:53to keep the government's independence, it is very important for us.
04:00While the exact order is yet to be published, it was contended in court that stray dogs are already being picked up.
04:10Something confirmed by local municipal councillors to India today.
04:16The Chief Justice of India, B.R. Gawai, has now assured to review a plea challenging the Supreme Court's contentious directive to relocate all stray dogs to shelters in eight weeks.
04:30Amidst the crackdown, voices of dissent grew louder.
04:34Fresh protests by dog lovers and activists were seen in film city Noida, where some of the country's biggest news channels are located.
04:45No two pounds! No two pounds! No two pounds! No two pounds! No two pounds! No two pounds!
04:53What you're seeing behind me are a section of people who are dog lovers, who are protesting against the Supreme Court Udder, which have asked to remove the stray dogs from the streets.
05:08They're also partly angry with a section within the media about a coverage that they say has actually led to the protest in the first place.
05:17They want the ABC program, which is the animal birth control program, to be implemented nicely, because that's the only scientific manner in which you can reduce the number of dogs on the streets.
05:27This is not the right way to actually have strays removed inhumanly, and that's the reason they are protesting.
05:34While the increasing dog menace is a real problem, especially within the Delhi NCR region, recording the highest dog bites in the country,
05:44the current top-court diktat seems unimplementable, with what is estimated to be a 10 lakh dog population compared to just 20 recognized dog sterilization centers.
05:58In fact, India today found out that some dog shelters in Delhi are not even functioning properly.
06:05A shelter should have a kitchen, so there's a small kitchen where the food is being prepared. This is the dog's kitchen.
06:14The situation seems to be deplorable because the entire center needs a little bit organization. There is no cleaning as such.
06:25While there is an infrastructural abyss and Delhi will have to spend more on dog shelters than it does on public health to just implement the Supreme Court order,
06:38questions need to be asked of the overtly underwhelming performance of the MCD to control the dog menace in Delhi.
06:47In 21-22, the MCD spent 5.9 crores on stray dogs, of which 5 crores went towards sterilization, and just 70 lakh towards building sterilization centers.
07:03A Delhi Assembly Panel estimated the stray dog population at 8 lakhs in 2019, up from 5.6 lakhs in the last census of 2009.
07:16Comparable trends are visible in other metros.
07:20Bengaluru spends nearly 9.4 crores tackling the stray problem, while Mumbai BMC spent 11.2 crores the same year, which is financial year 2022.
07:34The low spending by the MCD comes even as dog bite cases surge.
07:41In Delhi, reported cases jumped nearly four-folds.
07:45In January 2025 alone, the city logged 3,196 dog bite cases.
07:53If the MCD even spent 6 crores on stray dogs as it listed for financial year spending the year 2021-22, then there had to be some documentary evidence on ground.
08:07What is, is to the contrary.
08:12Meanwhile, caught in the struggle of war between humane care and hardline clean-up, Delhi faces a crucial question.
08:19Can the city find a compassionate way to keep its streets safe without losing its soul?
08:26Bureau Report, India Today.
08:30All right, so this is a battle which is brewing now not just in the national capital and the NCR region, but across the country.
08:37We've had dog lovers, activists, celebrities, regular people who have come out and questioned this particular order coming from the Supreme Court.
08:47For them, the good news is that the Chief Justice of India has taken cognizance and will look into the matter.
08:54I want to take all these questions to our panelists this evening.
08:57Joining me in just a short while will be Vijay Goyal.
09:00He's a BJP leader.
09:01He's actually the biggest proponent of the Supreme Court order.
09:05He's taken out a yatra all across Delhi, which practically lauds the Supreme Court order, suggests that it should actually be implemented across the country.
09:14Larger questions, of course, on infrastructure.
09:17Do we really have the kind of infrastructure to support an order such as that?
09:21Still remain unanswered.
09:23We're going to take those questions from him.
09:24Gauri Mulekhi, animal welfare strategist, is with me.
09:27Dr. Sanjeev Bagai, chairman, Nefron Clinics.
09:30Dr. Ashur Jesudos, executive member, Delhi Animal Welfare Board.
09:36Rahul Ishwar, philosophy author and Hindu activists.
09:40I'd like to, you know, before all of that, I want to cut across to Gauri Mulekhi, animal welfare strategist.
09:46Gauri, all right, we don't have Gauri with us.
09:49We're going to cut across to her in just a short while from now.
09:51But Dr. Ashur, if you'd want to come in.
09:53Well, the Chief Justice of India has said that he's going to look into the matter which clearly has the society divided.
09:59Lots of questions, Dr. Ashur, we spoke with you, you know, yesterday as well, to take the conversation further.
10:06Ultimately, there is a crisis that Delhi is facing if you want to look at sheer number of dog bites, where the dog menace is concerned.
10:14The MCD has clearly, somewhere down the line, performed terribly.
10:18It could be corruption, it could be multiple reasons, but the sheer fact it hasn't done its job lands us in a position that we are in.
10:25But, Dr. Ashur, the larger question is why should people suffer collateral in midst of dog right activists and what the Supreme Court said?
10:38Right. So I think we should begin by understanding, I think, that everyone on this panel wants a solution, right?
10:45And so do we. And it's just a question of how you get these solutions, what's the science behind it, what are the laws behind it,
10:53and what is the morality behind everything that you do?
10:56And I believe that Indians are a compassionate people at the core, right?
11:01And I think that belief is something I will hold dear to me all my life.
11:06And based on that, we need to understand that there are a set of rules in place, which have been upheld by the Supreme Court of India.
11:21All the animal birth control rules 2020s all had.
11:26It's just that no one's, you know, taken the time to open the rules and read what's written inside, right?
11:31Coming back to your next question, you know, who's to be accountable to this?
11:35The Municipal Corporation of Delhi should be single-handedly responsible because they run 20 animal birth control centers.
11:43As you could see, you know, one of your reporters was at a center and they saw what miserable conditions the dogs that kept in over there.
11:51They claim to have sterilized seven lakh dogs in the last seven years, whereas my estimate is that there aren't seven lakh dogs in, you know, in all of Delhi.
12:02And if there are, then all of them should be sterilized, according to the MCD data,
12:06which means that they've taken all this money that you said that was spent in sterilization and not in setting up centers,
12:12and we don't know what they're used for.
12:14The animal birth control rules mandates CCTV cameras in every operation theater.
12:20It mandates a monitoring committee to be established at the local level and at the state level.
12:24In most places across India where these people are demanding a solution, these monitoring committees haven't been formed.
12:31And numbers are highly inflated.
12:33They're taking the money.
12:34They're not sterilizing the dogs.
12:36In fact, they're not following the ABC rules at all.
12:39The ABC rules also say that, you know, they need to run education drives whenever they pick up dogs to tell people what the rules are.
12:47You know, like the Kuda vehicle that comes to our locality.
12:50It says Gila Kuda yahan, Sukha Kuda yahan.
12:52That's educating people about what waste segregation is all about.
12:57The municipal corporation doesn't do that.
12:59It doesn't tell people how to solve the problem.
13:01It doesn't solve the problem.
13:02They just take all the money and they don't do any work.
13:05And that is where the problem lies.
13:07Okay.
13:08And that the government, the BJP is, I mean, we're really hopeful in this government, even
13:12now, that they will understand the source of the problem and deal with it where they should.
13:18You know, so hold the municipal corporation responsible and not take out all the angst on,
13:27you know, a vulnerable section of our society, which is the dogs.
13:32All right.
13:33Dr. Sanjeev Baga, you've been very, very vocal, especially where, you know, the rising cases of dog bites are concerned.
13:37And at least if you look at Prime FSI, the figures, Delhi has the highest numbers of dog bites across the country.
13:43So clearly we failed somewhere.
13:46But then when you look at this particular order, which is coming from the Supreme Court, is that the solution?
13:52Because we clearly also lack the infrastructure to support where each and every dog, as per the last census, which was in 2018,
14:02it seems we are standing at a population of 10 lakh dogs and we only have functioning 20 sterilization centers.
14:11So there is a huge abyss where infrastructure is concerned.
14:15Good evening.
14:16The first and most important thing is to make a distinction between pet dogs and stray dogs.
14:24The stray dogs are a risk to life.
14:26They are endangering life, endangering children's health and the elderly.
14:30At no point of time, my view is that we should have any cruelty or any inhuman behavior towards any animal.
14:39But we can't convert our city, our residential colonies, our homes right outside our gates into a Masai Mara or a Serengeti.
14:48That is unacceptable.
14:49Stray dogs bites, and we know the statistics, there are more than 37 lakh bites in India every year of dog bites.
14:57And mind you, most of these cases go to private clinics, general practitioners, where the cases are not being documented, recorded,
15:05and the census is therefore underreported.
15:08Point number two, obviously the civic authorities haven't done their job in the last 10 years.
15:13There should have been an infrastructure capacity building.
15:16That's not happened.
15:17That needs to happen.
15:18But if you have stray dogs on the streets, you're going to have bites.
15:23We know the rabies cases, and everyone is saying the rabies cases are just 54 this year.
15:28The word just is wrong.
15:31Every human life counts.
15:34The issue here is it's not only about rabies.
15:37It's about the lacerating injuries, nerve injuries, orthopedic injuries, severe reconstructive surgeries,
15:44which are required for small children and elderlies, fracture neck femurs, head injuries which elderlies face.
15:50Dogs in the streets, for a variety of reasons, attack human beings.
15:55You can't have a stray dog which is aggressive in the same micro environment as residential homes.
16:02That's the distinction point.
16:04We need to be more compassionate.
16:06Fair point.
16:07We need to be more compassionate, but how do we do that in letter?
16:10Because technically with what you're suggesting right now, that this is a death sentence for the stray dogs, at least in the Delhi NCR region.
16:19We understand that because we don't have the infrastructure.
16:22We tried doing this without a Supreme Court order, which was during the Commonwealth Games, and we saw what really happened.
16:30So, are we okay accepting that we are signing off on a death warrant for lax of dogs at the cost of what needs to be done,
16:38you know, for the citizens of the country, of Delhi, who, you know, are facing what they are facing thanks to the laxity of the MCD?
16:47Just a quick point I want to add. In fact, just two quick points, with your permission.
16:52Yes, the time constraint of two months may be too short, but let us start the process.
16:59The only way to move forward is to take a first step forward.
17:03There is absolute possibility of creating these shelters and looking after the dogs, sterilizing them and vaccinating them.
17:11And over a period of years, the stray dog population will go down.
17:15The second point is, I want people to appreciate the pain, the torture, the harrowing experience of small children undergoing reconstructive surgeries,
17:25or indeed working in a rabies ward. There is nothing which is more disastrous, painful and emotionally and psychologically challenging than to look after these patients.
17:37I want people to understand the pain the families go through. It's not only a human being life lost, a family gets destroyed.
17:46No, you know, fair point. But we are once again, and I'd bring in, you know, I'd bring in a rather guest, Gauri Mulekhi as well,
17:52but we are once again then, you know, Dr. Bagai, for the sake of an argument, because entrusting the same agency that has failed till now,
18:01abysmally so, to carry out a program which is mandated by the top court, and we are hoping that they'll succeed this time, you know, which looks implausible.
18:12I want to, I want to bring in Gauri Mulekhi, because Ms. Mulekhi, there's a larger question here.
18:16You know, we can sit here and nauseam debate about animal rights, animal welfare, that this is a death warrant,
18:22but ultimately try explaining that to somebody in a Narela, in a Nangloi, who's taking their little child to the school in the morning,
18:29gets attacked every morning by a pack of dogs, or somebody on their morning walk, or a delivery agent who faces this trauma day after day.
18:37Correct. We have to change the way we are perceiving the problem at this time.
18:44We have approached this problem as if it were a civil, civic problem to be dealt with by municipalities for the past 25 years.
18:54Two and a half decades we've given to local authorities like MCD, other municipalities and panchayats across the country.
19:01They have failed miserably for lack of consistency, for lack of compliance with the central government rules.
19:07Sometimes it's the budget which is short, sometimes it's the monitoring which is not there.
19:13Sometimes there is so much corruption that while, you know, the program goes on on paper, nothing happens on the ground.
19:21That's something that a combination of all three we saw in Delhi happening for the past two and a half decades.
19:27But we need to look at it as a public health problem and a veterinary health problem, not even animal welfare.
19:34So let us look at it only from the scientific point of view.
19:38Now, if we, for instance, if we have a magic wand and we remove all dogs, all 10 lakh dogs, given it was possible even from Delhi,
19:47would that then mean that Delhi is sanitized and there's not a single dog coming from anywhere else into Delhi? No.
19:54In the next three months, we would have more unsterilized dogs from neighboring areas coming into Delhi fighting for territory
20:01and we'd be back to square one in less than a year.
20:04Because this is something, this is not a simplistic way of resolving things.
20:10World Health Organization has spelt out how cities such as Delhi with urban solid waste problem can resolve the scavenging animal issue.
20:23And that is through the animal birth control program.
20:26The National Center for Disease Control, NCDC, which is our own government of India's body, has concurred with that,
20:33has come up with a national action plan on rabies eradication along the same lines.
20:38In fact, this very year, the Director General of Health Services has indicated that the data of dog bites that's coming out is faulty.
20:47It is not correct because it's not collected at source in a segregated manner,
20:54whether the dog bite is of a pet dog or a stray dog.
20:57A lot of people who are rearing and keeping pitbulls and alsations and rottweilers and you name it,
21:04all kinds of fancy breeds, which are also regulated by the government of India,
21:08but not implemented by the states under the dog breeding and marketing rules of 2017.
21:14So, these dogs also contribute to a very large number of bites,
21:20which the medical authorities now have the mandate to record in a particular format given by the DGHS.
21:29That format will start giving us the correct data, probably from next year onwards.
21:34Because this year, up to this year, all the data that you've got is a cumulative of all the post-exposure rabies vaccines
21:41that have been disbursed to people and sometimes every single vaccine that is given is recorded as a single dog bite.
21:50For one dog bite, there are five reasons required, five repetitive dog bites are recorded.
21:55And that has been something that the states pointed out, which the center acknowledged.
22:01And now, corrective measures have been taken.
22:04Okay.
22:05So, we don't have the right to get the solution right.
22:08All right. Okay. Rahul Ishwar, the fact is, there is a problem.
22:11Nobody is denying it.
22:12You know, especially when Delhi is concerned, the numbers say it very clearly.
22:17But, is this the solution?
22:19Because clearly, after, you know, speaking to multiple people who've been working in this sector,
22:25this is definitely not the solution.
22:27We've got to work towards something which doesn't, A, cost our infrastructure the way this will, number one.
22:34Number two, where it's implausible, because an MCD that has failed till now,
22:39you're entrusting the same body to carry out, you know, something which you know they're going to fail at.
22:45It's impossible in two months to create shelters, which Delhi will end up spending more on dogs than it does spend on health for public.
22:53Ma'am, everyone understands that there is a problem.
22:56In 2023, it was reported somewhere around 3 million dog bite cases and nearly 286 deaths from dog bite, as reported by your mainstream media.
23:06In 2024, more than 5 lakh victims of these dog bites were children under the age of 15.
23:12So, yes, there is a very serious problem.
23:14See, I'm not a, I don't hate dogs.
23:16Neither am I a dog lover.
23:17My humble submission is that we should give priority and precedence to human life.
23:21And that is non-negotiable.
23:23Yes, I understand and respect the outrage from our movie industry, people like John Abraham,
23:27people like, you know, across civil society, many dog lovers.
23:31Dog lovers, we respect that sentiment because, you know, we in Indian culture,
23:34has always respected various animals as part of godly nature too.
23:38But having said that, the human life cannot be compromised.
23:41So, it's up to, you know, to bring out a solution, the animal lovers, the caregivers, the food givers,
23:46they need to come together and find out a solution in accordance with,
23:49especially today's Honorable Supreme Court Chief Justice has taken a position that he will look into it again.
23:55Perhaps he will reconsider it.
23:56So, they need to find a solution.
23:58But having said that, the ordinary people out on the road is getting very impatient.
24:02Let us not close our eyes towards that kind of an impatience that's happening.
24:06For example, my home state Kerala, you know, two children were killed by the snog bites.
24:10When we, when we meet their family, it's, you know, it's a scar that even stays in our mind for an entire lifetime.
24:16So, it's a very serious issue that a solution needs to be done.
24:19And let me have no shyness in saying the precedence and the preference go to a human life rather than a dog's life.
24:27With no, no disrespect to any animal's life.
24:29That human life is sacrosanct.
24:31We need to take care of that.
24:32And in the order of things and in the scheme of things, we have more priority.
24:36And some kind of a, you know, fast solution should be taken care.
24:40Okay.
24:41Otherwise, people are already getting impatient.
24:42There were many, you know, killings regarding dogs by ordinary people reported across India.
24:46So, please bring out a solution.
24:48Please help us get rid of this menace.
24:50And that's a very serious.
24:51Okay.
24:52So, one needs to work toward the solution.
24:53I don't think anybody is denying that.
24:55But this is definitely not the solution.
24:57Are we willing to sacrifice lakhs of dogs because the inability of one agency to do their job?
25:03That's the basic question.
25:05I want to quickly move on to the, I think we're getting some news break coming in and we'll go back to our panelists on the same.
25:11Well, you have now Menaka Gandhi who's appealed to the Chief Justice of India urging the CGI Gawai to hear all sides suggesting hope CGI makes a call in view of law appeal after CGI said we'll look into the matter.
25:28We've got this coming in at the wake of Menaka Gandhi, animal rights activist.
25:31She's a former BJP MP.
25:33She lost her election though.
25:35So, we're going to correct that.
25:36But the latest coming in is that after the Chief Justice of India has come in to say that he will look into the matter.
25:45For the matter, you have Menaka Gandhi now appealing to CGI Gawai to hear all sides that she hopes that the Chief Justice of India makes a call in view of law.
25:57Listen in.
25:58So, this is a real hope.
26:00кол-able
26:01We're very hopeful.
26:02Because this order is a terrible aprovincy so bad that it has been blocked in the last two weeks by the gun.
26:09The police is killed.
26:11The police are running out and the police are being charged.
26:12The demonstrations are being charged.
26:14What kind of a reward?
26:15Because the order was so bad that everyone knows that it can't happen.
26:19So, if the Chief Justice of India wants to see it this again,
26:25We have the recommendation for them to understand all the sectors and to see those settled laws.
26:34Alright, I want to cut across to Dr. Rajar.
26:36Dr. Rajar, because we are looking at solutions, the only solution is sterilization.
26:42So we are looking at a long window.
26:43There is no quick-fix solution to what we are actually facing right now,
26:47which many would think is an epidemic kind of proportion where dog bites are concerned.
26:51Once again, going purely by the figures that exist.
26:55Right. Sterilization is absolutely the solution, but I think Ms. Gauri Mulekhi wanted to say
27:02something, so maybe we let her speak first and I can come in after that.
27:05Alright. Gauri Mulekhi wanted to come in. Go ahead.
27:08I'll answer that for your question.
27:11Yeah, go ahead.
27:12Basically, the rules that the central government has promulgated in 2023 also provide for short-term
27:19respite, but only if it is followed. Rule 16 of the Animal Birth Control Rule 323 says
27:26that if there is any dog that has bitten any person, if such a person has actually been
27:31bitten, not just because somebody is scared of such and such dog, you know, looking at
27:36it or barking at it, but if there is a biting dog, it can be picked up, isolated, identified,
27:42picked up, kept in the Animal Birth Control Center in an isolation quarantine ward and
27:48it can be monitored for presence of rabies or not. And there is a whole process given
27:53in it. However, the 20 shabby little ABC centers that MCD runs in Delhi rarely have isolation
28:01centers. They need to be brought under the regime of, you know, project recognition throughout
28:08the city. They have still not done it. We are in High Court against MCD in contempt for
28:14not following the central government rules. For the longest time, the previous government
28:18refused to follow any rule made by the center. Now we are hoping that sense will prevail
28:23and the new government will follow the central government rules and make the ABC centers more
28:27robust. For short-term respite for feeders also, Rule 20 prescribes that feeding points
28:34are there's conflict. One person doesn't want dogs to be fed here or there. There is a committee
28:39that can be made under the chairmanship of the district animal husbandry officer who will
28:46have a police fellow and the RWA person in the feeder and they will make a consensus feeding
28:51point in the neighborhood which is acceptable to all. But for that, some amount of effort has
28:57to be put in. How is it that UP and Uttarakhand have put in a lot of effort? Because they started
29:02early. They are giving results now. Delhi started 25 years ago, spent hundreds of crores and still
29:11it's only basically filled up pockets of MCD officers and the Delhi population is still at,
29:17you know, at large with all their problems. I just want to make one short point more, Preeti.
29:23While we are all very worried about public health risks because of the presence of street dogs,
29:30let me put it on record that public health will be massively compromised if we make ghettos
29:37or concentration camps of dogs around the city. These will be such biological, you know, focal points
29:47of pathogenic activity. For kilometres around these places, people will not be able to live. These will be
29:54just such complete biohazards that Delhi does not need it. That's how the Black Death actually started.
30:02Dr. Bagai, we have spoken about this a couple of days ago. Dogs essential to the scavenging cycle where,
30:08you know, Delhi is concerned. But final comments, Dr. Bagai, I'm going to cut across to all of you.
30:14Dr. Bagai, please go first.
30:17So, a failure of a system as far as the civic bodies are concerned for the last 25 years is not defining
30:26what we need to do further. We need more number of dog shelters. We need better care of the dogs.
30:33But we also need to investigate where has all this money gone over the past 20 decades.
30:39But to have, again, my basic point is, if you have stray dogs outside your homes, at some point of time,
30:48many people are going to get bitten. My limited point is, for me, that is unacceptable.
30:54All right. Let's quickly cut across. Dr. Rashar, final comments, sir.
31:01Yes. I just wanted to add a little bit, you know, following the entire biohazard, you know,
31:06the human health hazards that this decision is going to create.
31:09You must have heard of the term herd immunity, right? I mean, we all heard about it during COVID.
31:16And there was a reason why mass vaccination was carried out.
31:19Because, you know, when about 30% of the population is vaccinated,
31:22it greatly increases the protection from that virus from spreading, right?
31:27Similarly, right now, with the animal birth control program in place, a majority of the dogs,
31:32I mean, all the dogs that have been picked up and sterilized and put back are vaccinated.
31:36So we need to understand that rabies does not originate from the dogs.
31:40The dogs themselves are victims of rabies.
31:43They've been bitten by either a rat or a wild animal, maybe another dog that's come from outside.
31:48And these animals will keep coming in. These dogs are vaccinated and therefore they kind of protect us.
31:54The unvaccinated ones are the ones that fall victim to rabies and go on to bite humans.
31:59That's a very important point to understand.
32:01Because if we start picking up all these sterilized dogs and vaccinated dogs and putting them in shelters,
32:06the new dogs that Gauriji talked about that are going to come in are going to be unvaccinated, unsterilized.
32:12And the chances of rabies propagating is going to be more.
32:15These dogs are also going to have, you know, fights amongst themselves.
32:17They're going to set up a pecking order.
32:19And when they fight amongst themselves, humans are going to get bitten.
32:22This is, I mean, it's common sense. People need to think long term.
32:26You know, this is like some random order where you just decided, okay, let's build this asiana, you know.
32:31It's not an asiana. It's going to be an absolute ghetto like Gauriji said.
32:34And it's shameful that the Supreme Court of India has come up with an order like this.
32:38Alright, final comments. We have Rahul Leeshwar. Final comments, sir. Then we're going to go into a quick break.
32:43I would humbly urge, you know, we should all be very mindful and respectful when we deal with a Supreme Court verdict or a Supreme Court order.
32:51They are the highest court of our land. And we should be very sensible to respect their verdict.
32:55We may agree or we may disagree with those particular verdicts.
32:58Supreme Court has taken a drastic step because of the gravity of the issue on ground.
33:03And human beings' priority cannot be compromised. And that is a sense that we should all have.
33:08Because tomorrow, if something bad happens, people can really take, and that has really happened too.
33:14Because at the end of the day, human life is more important than dog's life and there are no two ways about it.
33:19You know, I'm going to just leave it at that. We're going to let our viewers decide.
33:22The debate continues both in court and outside.
33:25Alright, joining me right now is BJP leader Vijay Goyal who has lauded the order coming in from the Supreme Court
33:33where dogs are concerned that they need to be put in shelters, the stray dogs, in the next eight weeks.
33:38Of course, that has been contested with both inside and outside court. Vijay Goyal Ji joins us.
33:44Vijay Goyal Ji, you know, this is something that has not just Delhi divided but the country divided.
33:50Aapko lagta hai hai, you think that this order should be implemented not just in Delhi but all across India.
33:56Why do you think this is the best solution?
33:59Because the dog lovers, the animal activists are saying that this is nothing but a death warrant for at least nine to ten lakh dogs in Delhi NCR region.
34:11Dekhye, Supreme Court has said that the stray dogs were sent to the shelter homes in the shelter homes.
34:23One thing you can understand is that the dog lovers or the animal lovers are the same.
34:29We have all Delhi's RWA's.
34:32This means that there will be more than five hundred or thousand RWA's.
34:36One thing you can say that the animal lovers are the same.
34:43One thing you can say is that the animal lovers are the same.
34:47Two things you can say is that the country is 12 crores.
34:51I want to say that the Supreme Court is the same.
34:54The other states that the government should implement it.
34:57The animal lovers have two issues in the past.
35:01The first issue is that the government should be the same.
35:04The first issue is that the government should be the same.
35:07The first issue is that the government should be the same.
35:09It is not possible.
35:10We don't have infrastructure.
35:11We don't have shelter homes.
35:13We don't have shelter homes.
35:14How do we go to the dogs?
35:16They don't have any language.
35:18They don't have any language.
35:19They don't have any language.
35:21For example, I'll say about a shelter home.
35:23They will have a shelter home home.
35:24They will have a shelter home.
35:25They will have an infrastructure home.
35:26They will have all their facilities.
35:27Then, the landers will be the same.
35:28The other issue is that the government should be the same.
35:30The place you have said...
35:31Is there a separate solution that they will have?
35:35The sonos, of course, the government should be the same.
35:36The other issue is that if you asked them,
35:37what if you are asking them?
35:39foreign
36:09last line last line last line last line last line last line last line
36:15last line last line 12 crore kutteh deshvr ke
36:21ndar hain aur dilli mein 8 lakh se adik stray dogs
36:25hain jih woh to yahi rehenge na woh to sterilization
36:28karke kahi jayenge nahi woh isi tari se kaatte rehenge
36:31dilli mein 2000 cases per day per day dog bites ke
36:38cases hain bachche, bujarg, mahila, unki jyada shikar hai
36:41logo nne share karna bant kar diya paarko me
36:43parents nne apne bachche ko bhar bhejna bant kar diya
36:47to aap inse yeh puchke bata dijiye inke paas kya solution hai
36:51ji logo ko kutteh kaatte nahi
36:54wujjay gol ji
36:54hainne manav hit hai ya kutta hit hai
36:57but wujjay gol ji joh aap keh raha hai
36:59ki aap ne sterilize karke dhek liya woh hua nahi
37:01wujjay gol ji aap mcd se kaafi vaakif hai
37:04joh dilli mein hai
37:04ab aap ko me eek figure hai joh mcd se hi aya hai
37:08uttar pradish, utarakhund
37:11yahaan pe sab sterilization successful hua hai
37:15kutteh ki sankhya kam ho gai hai
37:17eek dilli aisa shahir hai, johan peh kutteh ki sarkhya double hooti jah rahi hai, joh pahle 2009 mein kutteh ka census hua tha, phir 2018 mein hua, double hi hooti hui jah rahi hai, toh joh mcd hai, mcd ka utter failure hai, ki aap sterilize nahi kar pahe, kuyonki baki shaher, baki states kar pah raha hai, mcd ko ko koi dhikkat hai, mcd nahi kar pah raha raha hai, pahli baat, dousri baat, vijjay gol ji, mcd ka budget,
37:45shilter banane mein, ab, unho ne, baki sab,
38:15shahir hai hai, sterilization mein spend kar diya hai, joh aakde hai, aur joh sterilization hui hai, woh match nahi kar raha hai, toh kahi par ya kisi ne pahe hai, ya banay hai, yeh sara mcd ki galti hai,
38:27aur abh hum keh rahe hai ki maanav hit ya kutta hit, is mein manmade creation hai yeh, yeh problem mcd ki created hai dhilli meh, yeh hum kuyo nahi maan raha hai,
38:39meh, meh, meh javaab dhu, please sir, hello, abhaz chalik, sir, please sir, dhikhi pehle aapke facts chik nahi hai, yeh, sabse, sunye, sabse jyadha docs ki, joh problem hai, stay docs ki,
38:55woh yupi ke anndar norida aur gajiyabad ke anndar hai, ager mein aaj abhaz maru, toh pura gajiyabad utke dhilli ke anndar a jayega, ki goel sahab hum hap ke sath hai,
39:05pura norida utke a jayega, kiunki meinne dho nho jengahe ke uper, in stay docs ke liye mujhe invite kiya gya tha, aur dho nho jengahe par meinne meiting li thi,
39:13meh ne unko kaah tha, vijay goel mahal bana ta hai, action nhi kar sakta, woh mahal bana ta hai, tākhi supreme court, government,
39:19iske anndar jage, dousari baat ye hai, mcd nhi kerti sterilization, meh, aapko bata ho, jay, mcd nhe 20 ngos, sir, tender dheti hai,
39:27animal lovers silathe hai, inkyo pere chhod rakhha hai, sunye, maadam, tender toh ngos uđtha rhea na, ngos uđtha rhea, sunye ye baat ko,
39:34jinn ko aap dhena chahe hai, jinn ko mcd dhena chahe hai, unhi ko tender dheti hai, mcd tender nikalti hai,
39:38jih, jih, jih, jih, bolye, bolye, sir, nhi, yeh, sirep societies ko dheti hai,
39:44aur iske anndar jadatal animal lovers si saamne aate hai, jiasse menka gandhi ji ki bhi eek,
39:50sanjay gandhi ji ke nama se woh hai, unse puch lijiye, aapne kitnay case ke sterilization ke case ki hai,
39:56to aapko pata talega, thik niki hai, mcd, itnay saalou se, uspne khub corruption rahi hai,
40:01par mein aapko dousra sawal uđtha raha honge, kovid ke karen bhi, is kám mein bhout kami aagay thi,
40:06is kutte bhout bhaht gaiti, mujhe sirep inse yeh puch dijiye, 8 laak kutte,
40:11chalo baqi to aapne sara sterilize kar liye, yeh joh 8 laak kutte rog saadko pere ghoom raha
40:16hai, yeh kaartte rahe nghe, to yeh bچo ko kaartte rahe, aap iske hak me hai,
40:20kya, agar wo kahenge hak me hai, to mujhe kuch nix kehena hai, phir to wo kahette hai ki naihi,
40:24kutta jadah piyara hai, kya hai, logon ne, badhi badhi nesl ke kutte aapne ghar mein
40:29paal rakhye hai, unko lakta hai, hai, humara dog hai, yeh stray dog, agar yeh vaastho
40:34mein animal lover hai, pehli baat, yeh sare vegetarian hai kiya, jara inse puchke
40:38dhek lena, dousra, inme se kitnou ne kutte ghod liye hai, jayse niederland mein kutte ghod
40:42liye hai, inme se inne se inne kitnä ghod nye hai, koji kutta ghod nye liya hai,
40:45yeh صرف ایک kama kertte hai, ek to inko foreign funding miltie hai, ek dousre NGO's
40:50se funding miltie hai, gađیاں átii hai, kuttou ko khanah na dalke chali jatii hai,
40:54aur ab to yeh kuttou ko meet khilate hai, to kuttak to aapne aap hi hinsak ho jayenge,
40:58karnaatak ke anndar sarkar nye kaha, ki hem inko meet ke sath biriyani khilayenge
41:03jake, ab aiasi agar pratha hai, to aap kutte paal lije, inki sankhya joh hai,
41:07hama ek payda kertte hai, woh čaar payda kertte hai, inki sankhya hamaari sankhya
41:12se jyadah honne wali hai, phir hama shelter homes mein jana padega, joh ki hem
41:15already shelter home mein aagay hai, kio ki hem aapne bچo ko khehlne ke liye
41:20bhaar nikalne me, dartate hai, meri ek baat dhyan rakhna, aap rws ke anndar,
41:24aap itna bada channel hai, rws ke anndar siraf eck survey kar lije, rws ke anndar siraf
41:27eck survey kar lije, rwa logo ko represent, sir, ye koji nahi, nai, nai, nai, kitnay
41:31animal lover saamne aayin, goyal sahab, ye koji contest kar hi nahi raha hai, ki
41:35dhilli me eek menace hai, kuttou ka, unko, aapko control karna padega, ye koji
41:41contest naihi kar raha hai, par, hama yaha par qai or solution kya hai, joh
41:46aapne figures dhiye, mei aapko saaf figure dheti ho, uttar pradish ne pichlye
41:50saal 2.8 lakh stray dogs ko sterilize kiya hai, agar me aapko dhilli ka isme figure
41:55dhu, woh, 1 lakh bhi nahi bantah hai, 1 lakh se bhi kam hai, Delhi NCR region, bhohut
42:01zahada gap hai, chaliyye, aap expanse bhi maan lije, uttar pradish, ye, johan
42:06par, ye, huwa hai, uttar pradish me, mei, 5 shehroon ki baat kar raha hai, 5 shehroon
42:10ki, unmei se laknao eek shehro hai, number one, to ka hii par aap, ham ye kuyo nahi
42:16maan raha hai, ke MCD ka bhoat bada failure raha hai, agar aap siraf 70 lakh, aapna
42:22budget mein se nikal ke spend kar raha ho, aap sterilization ke liye, aap centers ke liye,
42:27toh eek bhoat bhaat bhaat bhaat hai, kiyao ki, mai aapko siraf figures dhe
42:31raha hai, bangalore, bombay, isse kam se kam 30 guna spend karta hai, for animal
42:38shelter, joh hum nahi karte, woh humara budget hai, ham ye kuyo nahi maanthi ki
42:43ye ek bhoat bhaat bhaat bhaat samosya hai, nahi, mahi kaya raha houn ki ye bhoat bhaat
42:51bhaat bhaat samosya hai, dousra, aapka ect fact or galat hai, MCD ka bhaat
42:55koji 500 kroni nahi hai, MCD ke paas toh paisa hi nahi hai, aur unke paas 500 kroni
43:01kya, mushkil seh 10-15 kroni ka budget hooga, johan tak meri jahan karari hai,
43:055 kroni bola maine sir, 5 kroni, vijay goel ji 5 kroni kutu ke sterilization ke liye,
43:1270 lakh, aapne, siraf 70 lakh, aapne spend kiya, inka shelter banane ke liye, siraf 70 lakh,
43:21jih, aur wohi 11 kroni, BMC 11 kroni spend karatii hai is chiz ke liye,
43:26mai aapko eek bhaat bhaat bhaatata houn, mai MCD ko bilkul bhi defend nhi kar raha houn,
43:34aur mai MCD ko kula kritik houn ki MCD ke anndar corruption hai,
43:38pur mai aapko eek or bhaat bhaat bhaat bhaat raha houn, MCD nai abh ye sara kama
43:42outsource kar rakhha hai, to definitely kuch chijay houni chahi hai,
43:46mai aapko bhaatata houn, ke iska solution kiya hai, joh animal lover solution nhi manate hai,
43:51pehla solution iska ye hai, ke census houna chahiye, abhi 10-12 saal se to census hi nhi huwa hai kuttouka,
43:57jab tuk aapko yeh nhi paata chalega ki problem kitnhi bhaari hai,
44:00joh mein 8 laag kutte ka raha houn, woh 2018 kha census hai,
44:032018 kha census hai, joh aap kutte pa raha houn,
44:06ji ji ji, uske hisaab se 8 laag kutte hai,
44:09to kam se kam 10 laag to houn ga,
44:12MCD ka hi figure hai sir, abho census ki toor pe huwa hai ya kya huwa hai,
44:16kya huwa hai,
44:18pehla, pehla, pehle,
44:20pehle, census to khair nhi huwa,
44:22to pehla to ye hai ki census kharwana chahiye,
44:24jih, dousra, geochip joh hai,
44:26usko lagana chahiye,
44:28tisri baat hai,
44:30ab yeh joh loog keheti hai shelter home kiasse banen ghe,
44:32aray wiesse hi banen ghe,
44:34jayse covid ki aafat aai thi,
44:36or hem ne decision kiya,
44:38ki em rato rato haspital khaڑhen ghe,
44:40camp lagayen ghe, infosector ko develop karen ghe,
44:42faxin ko develop karen ghe,
44:44toh ham government ke upar chhođhen na,
44:46abhi toh uno ne,
44:48sirep dho mahine di hai,
44:50dho mahine ke anndar in animal lovers ko chahiye,
44:52pehle result toh dhek lo,
44:54agar result thik nhi aayenge,
44:56toh omg aur aage bade ghe,
44:58aap toh 8 dinn bhi result dhekne ke neke niya,
45:00iska argument ye hai,
45:02dhekhi aap ushi body ko trust kar rahe hai,
45:04jisne abhi tuk aap ko fail kiya hai,
45:06wahi mcd jisko aap trust kar rahe hai,
45:08jiske paas abhi sirep 20 sterilization center hai,
45:10ushi body ko aap trust kar rahe ho,
45:12center bada bada bada bada dhe,
45:14ke woh 9 se 10 laag kutto ko house kar lhe,
45:16toh yeh saaf,
45:18vijay ghol ji kya,
45:20chaliyye mei aap se kye saaf sabaal puchhti ho,
45:22are you okay,
45:24are you okay,
45:26are you okay,
45:28that you sign in knowingly,
45:30that this is a death warrant for 9 or 10 lakh dogs?
45:32no no,
45:34death warrant,
45:36toh word,
45:37use karna bada hi galat hai,
45:38shelter home me bhi unki dhekhaal hooghi,
45:40और yeh saari animals,
45:42यhe shelter home hi nahi hai sir,
45:43यhe shelter home me unko jake feeding bhi karayenge mujhe pura,
45:46shelter home hi nahi hai,
45:48as per this order,
45:50vivek goel ji,
45:52as per this order,
45:54as per this order,
45:56as per this order,
45:58as per this order,
46:00as per this order,
46:04this order implement,
46:06in true spirit of the letter,
46:08in true spirit of the letter,
46:10joh supreme court nne bola hai,
46:12toh dillni sirkar kutto phe
46:14zaada hooga,
46:16And the other thing is that Supreme Court is not going to be able to give us a little bit of time duration.
46:31So I am sure that if we have one shelter, we will have to make this process slowly.
46:37And the other thing is that the central government is involved in it.
46:42And the other thing is that the central government will be involved in it.
46:48But Supreme Court decision is not going to be able to give us a little bit of time.
46:54So that the RWA wants to take this process,
47:00that the other thing is going to be able to remove the other people's children.
47:06This is not going to be able to take this process.
47:08The second thing is that the animal lovers are going to be able to take this process.
47:11I have not seen any issue yet, if there is infrastructure or not.
47:15You should listen to me.
47:17These 20 NGOs, any animal lovers, ask them what you have done in the years.
47:23And today you have been able to take this credit.
47:25We are the dog lovers. We are the dog lovers.
47:27Vijay Ghul Ji, this is not about these 20 NGOs.
47:32This is a tender, MCD. You also know how tender is given.
47:36So let's not even get into that debate. That is an entirely separate debate, which we can have on the MCD and the lack of functioning of the MCD, what it's supposed to do.
47:44That is not the issue. The issue is that now, infrastructurally, what you are saying, at least it's impossible, you are trusting the agency, which has failed you once again.
47:57My last question.
48:01My last question.
48:02No, no, no, no, no.
48:04My last question is. It's a scavenging chain.
48:06It's a scavenging chain, which in Delhi, too.
48:08We want to make a first world country to make a dog.
48:10We don't want dogs on streets, I also want to make a dog.
48:12But it's a scavenging chain.
48:14If you will remove dogs, rodents, the dogs' dogs, monkeys' dogs will be very valuable.
48:24If you have 10,000-9,000 dogs, these experts are saying that if you are going to house them, they will become a biohazard.
48:35This will become a health hazard.
48:37But in the Netherlands, we have been attacked by these people.
48:50These people...
48:52It's the same.
48:54It's the same.
48:56But someone's argument has said something.
48:59Please tell me what the animals want to do.
49:02What do they want to do?
49:04What do they want to do?
49:06is
49:20foreign
49:36knowingly we are signing the death warrant of 9 to 10 lakh dogs because we could not perform our job
49:48the mcd could not perform its job
49:50صحیح بات سر
50:20foreign
50:24foreign
50:32foreign
50:34foreign
50:44foreign
50:48foreign
51:16I understand that for a lot this is an elitist problem
51:40because you can sit in TV studios, you can sit in gated colonies and make these statements of animal rights
51:49and how animals and dogs need to be protected.
51:51Ultimately, in colonies where a child is taken to school, an elderly who is going for a morning walk or a delivery boy,
51:58they are facing these problems, sir.
52:00No one is denying that.
52:02But my basic question is, is this the answer?
52:05Because you correct me, sir.
52:07Ultimately, if we have to sacrifice 10 lakh jobs for the MCD not doing its job,
52:16then we should do it.
52:17Correct or not, sir?
52:20So listen, then you sacrifice the humans.
52:24Because you know, in one year, they have 35 lakhs bites.
52:29And rabbits are like a disease.
52:31So this means that in Delhi, there are 2,000 stray dogs bites.
52:36But it is a tough call.
53:00And are we that ruthless that we are deciding that we are okay that 9 to 10 lakh dogs are sacrificed at the altar of citizen health is what we are suggesting it to be?
53:14It's a question that people have to answer.
53:16And I agree that it is a problem in Delhi.
53:20Because Delhi records the highest number of dog bites across the country.
53:25I thank you, sir, for joining us.
53:26Thank you for putting your point of view forward.
53:28Appreciate it.
53:29We are going to leave it for our viewers to decide on where they stand on it.
53:32Understandably, it is a deeply contentious issue.
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