- 2 days ago
The K&C Masterpiece debated whether fans are truly appreciating Shai Gilgeous-Alexander's feats of greatness or if it's simply a reflection of the modern NBA. They explored if the back-to-back MVP's success is a result of historic efficiency, while also dissecting the criticism surrounding his foul calls, and more.
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00:00And I really want to see where the comments go on this one.
00:03Are we all appreciating the greatness of Shea Gelgis Alexander?
00:09Or is his success a reflection of how far the NBA has fallen?
00:14And I'll tell you why I use those specific thoughts, the last part anyway, are not from me.
00:20They're from comments on various tweets about him, right?
00:25Okay.
00:25All right, so let's go to...
00:28Let those various tweet comments be turned into a song.
00:31Yeah, man.
00:33The fun world.
00:34That song kind of rocked my world a little bit.
00:36You're welcome.
00:37One of the tweets, Shea Gelgis Alexander, first player to win consecutive MVPs since Jokic in 2020-21 and 21
00:46-22.
00:47And the first guard to win consecutive MVPs since Steph Curry in 14-15 and 15-16.
00:52And only the 14th player in NBA history to do that.
00:56The most popular comment on that tweet was, quote, should have won an Oscar for all of that acting.
01:05Then I take you to another one.
01:08And it talks about all the people that he now has more MVPs than.
01:12And the most popular comment was, more of an indictment on what the league has become than his individual greatness.
01:20So clearly there are a lot of people who think that.
01:23We made reference to Bobby and Cody kind of going back and forth on all of this.
01:29And I wanted to see what the people think and what y'all think.
01:33I'll present you with a few numbers to go along.
01:37I will say, just being friends with Cody.
01:40He's our sales guy.
01:41Right.
01:41Was at a dinner with him recently, and I made a joke, and it was immediate.
01:45Like, I'm ready to cut you type defense of this player.
01:49He's not here for that.
01:50Yeah.
01:51He really feels strongly about that.
01:54Which we all do.
01:55We are all arsenaled up.
01:58Is that the right word?
02:00With any type of ammunition we need whenever somebody comes at our guy or our team.
02:06So that's how it is.
02:07And do you think for him specifically, it makes it even worse?
02:10Because he's had to hear this incessantly for like the last two years.
02:14Like, these critiques didn't just pop up.
02:16Yeah.
02:17And because it's Oklahoma City, you know.
02:19I mean.
02:20It's the thunder.
02:21Interesting.
02:22You know, the little thunder, if you will.
02:24From the 214, SGA is proof of how far we've fallen.
02:28From the 972, it's definitely the latter, Kevin.
02:31So that would be the negative as well.
02:33All right.
02:33So there's a variety of numbers that could push this one way or another.
02:39SGA, this season, when he played for the Oklahoma City Thunder, they were 56-12.
02:45Which is astonishing.
02:46And they were 8-6 without him.
02:49So they're still good with that.
02:51Better than 500.
02:52That's true.
02:53But 56-12.
02:55And without him, they were on pace to go 16-12.
02:58Okay.
02:58So he's a plus 40 wins.
03:01Now, if you just look at plus minus, which I know that stat doesn't translate as much in the NBA.
03:07But with Shea on the court, the Oklahoma City Thunder are a plus 788 this season.
03:12That's more than 100 points better than the next closest player.
03:15Which is Wemby.
03:16All right?
03:18He's first in...
03:18Oh, so you're suggesting good series.
03:20I think this is going to be a great series.
03:22He's first in clutch points.
03:24First in clutch points per game.
03:26First in 20-point games.
03:28First in plus minus.
03:29Second in points.
03:29Second in points per game.
03:30Second in 30-point games.
03:32Third in 40-point games.
03:33And now consecutive 60-win seasons.
03:38So that's a lot of freaking positive to go with it.
03:43But this is the tweet that I saw that really set people off.
03:47SGA now has more MVPs in his career than Dirk, Kevin Durant, Charles Barkley, Allen Iverson,
03:56Hakeem Olajuwon, Kobe Bryant, and Shaq.
04:00And so...
04:01Those are all good.
04:02And so I think that's what agitated people.
04:05Is the idea that based on MVPs alone, he would be considered better than any, let alone all, of these
04:12players.
04:16So, which question do you want me to answer first?
04:18Whichever one you like.
04:19Alright, I want to go to the, are we appreciating it, or is it the NBA has fallen?
04:25Would you not say that when Dirk was doing what he was doing, the NBA was like, I can't believe
04:30the game has turned to this?
04:32I do.
04:33Now, not from us, because that was our generation.
04:36Right.
04:36Our generation was, this is how the game has revolutionized from, as J.J. Reddick said, your generation of firemen
04:46and plumbers.
04:46Which is a stupid thing.
04:48That's still hilarious.
04:49You've got to admit, it's still funny.
04:51But, like, when you look at the old generation, it was a different game from before the three-point line.
04:56Different game.
04:56It was at Steve Kerr recently that said he'd get rid of the three-point line altogether to change the
05:01game.
05:02Man, that'd zero him out to no championships really quick, wouldn't it?
05:05But, and, yeah, again, that's a guy that's like, from me, I'm saying, if you want to change it, do
05:11it that way.
05:12But when, it is just the way this game is being played now, is that the referees are going to
05:20call it the way that they call it.
05:22And guys have found ways to take advantage of that through their careers.
05:26Luka, Luka was Micah, right?
05:29I'm fouled on every single play.
05:31And I'm not just saying it, I really am.
05:34You're not calling him for me.
05:35Why?
05:36Because I think you hate me.
05:37And why do you hate me so much?
05:38Is it because I gripe at you the whole time I'm running back up the court?
05:41Probably.
05:42Like, there's all the, whatever the politics come to it.
05:44The game is, James Harden's benefited from getting to the free-throw line a lot.
05:48Dwayne Wade took an entire championship from us by getting to the free-throw line and drawing fouls.
05:55Intentionally drawing fouls on the way to it.
05:58And you can say what you want about any numbers.
06:00I've watched the dude play.
06:02He does very, very good things that are very subtle that get the calls.
06:08And it's a smart thing because guess what?
06:10His team wins and whips everybody's ass on the way.
06:12And I, that, so that is very true.
06:15And it's going to be a tough, I think, next month and a half for people who don't like SGA
06:21and people who don't like the Thunder.
06:23Because clearly they're the favorite for the title.
06:25And speaking of that, if they win the championship, and if Shea wins finals MVP, there have been two other
06:33players in the history of basketball to win back-to-back MVPs and back-to-back finals MVPs.
06:40LeBron and Jordan.
06:42So LeBron and Jordan are basically the same.
06:45So.
06:46History's told us that.
06:47I'm not getting into that debate.
06:48One NBA debate at a time.
06:51So you're going to say that SGA is basically the same as Jordan and LeBron.
06:54No, I am not.
06:55But also, because he's way younger, let's see what happens with his career.
06:58If they win five titles in a row or something, I'd be like, well, I guess so.
07:01And that argument, too, right?
07:02Isn't it Michael Jordan faced tougher defenses than LeBron?
07:06Sure.
07:07And then even LeBron probably faced tougher defenses than SGA along the way.
07:11Right.
07:11And definitely never even touched the kind of defenses that Michael Jordan had to deal with.
07:16But, again, I'll give him this credit as well.
07:21You still have to make the shots.
07:23Sure.
07:24When he goes and gets an and one, he still has to make the shot.
07:28When he goes and gets the free throws, you still have to make those shots.
07:31Those points don't just rack up because the ball hit the rim and bounced out.
07:35Well, let's talk about that.
07:36And I will also, on that, one more second, in addition to that, I wonder how many defensive
07:43players are terrified of just being around him.
07:46Sure.
07:46Because.
07:47And so that makes the shot.
07:49He knows what he's getting.
07:50So let's go look at those numbers.
07:51So, and there's something, by the way, that Cody sent to me.
07:55I believe it's called the gravity rankings or the gravity chart or something like that.
08:00And essentially it discusses how much you bring in defensively double or triple teams.
08:07And SGA is leading the way on that.
08:09Yeah, we talk about the gravity with Rantanen.
08:13Yes.
08:13You know, how much he helped other guys when he was healthy.
08:16Exactly.
08:17So not only would it help other players on the team, that would potentially lead to more
08:22foul calls or that's more likely why you would get those foul calls because you're more likely
08:26double or triple team.
08:28But you just talked about the shooting and then I'll tell you, I think the major issue
08:32you might have already kind of hit on it with this entire deal is Shea was the first guard
08:38in NBA history to average 30 points per game on 55% or better shooting.
08:43Okay.
08:43And he also joined Michael Jordan as the only players to average 30 points, five assists
08:47and 50% shooting in four consecutive seasons in league history.
08:51Nice numbers.
08:51And that's where I think it bothers people the most.
08:55If he was this same player on a team that wasn't winning, I think the criticism of him
09:03would be way lower or I think people would be like, hey, get this guy some help.
09:08It's that he's winning and he might be in that category with...
09:13He's surrounded by a good team.
09:14Yeah, and he is.
09:15Think about it.
09:16You can make a decent argument or maybe probably better than a decent argument.
09:20Their second best player has been out since April 22nd and is coming back tonight for
09:26game one of the Western Conference Finals.
09:28Stupid hamstrings.
09:29They went 8-0 without him?
09:30So that just shows.
09:32That team is unbelievably deep, but part of the reason is great management in not only
09:38getting the draft pick that was Shea Gilgis-Alexander, but getting pick after pick after pick and
09:43loading that team up.
09:44Did they build it the right way?
09:45They really did.
09:46I mean, that to me is impossible to argue.
09:50The right way is always unique to whatever your circumstance is, but when you're looking
09:54at it and you're like, they had so many picks.
09:56And they traded away some great players.
09:59They moved on from some great players in their time.
10:02James Harden, Kevin Durant.
10:03I mean, they moved on from Paul George.
10:07I can't say he was a great player, but a very, very good player.
10:09But they've done some significant things that put them in this position.
10:12It was just a matter of time for them to find the right talent to make it happen.
10:17From the 9-0-3, people have been drawing fouls since the invention of the pump fake.
10:21Too much whining about SGA.
10:23And then this.
10:24And this is one of the things that you touched on.
10:26And I think this is the biggest issue people have.
10:29And Shea is nowhere near LeBron or Jordan status.
10:32I think that's the No. 1 issue that people have, is all of these accolades are rocketing
10:37Shea up the chart, in part because he's really good, but also in part because his team is
10:43really good and people have a problem with that, as opposed to if he had maybe won one
10:47title along the way, but it looked like that was probably going to be it, or he had always
10:51stalled out in the conference finals, like if he was the Timberwolves or something.
10:55I don't think people would have anywhere near as much of an issue with him.
10:58And then for the 9-7-2, Kobe would beat SGA 11-0 in a 1v1-2-11.
11:04If that is how you judge it, then I think we need to rethink quite a few things when it
11:09comes to the hierarchy of NBA greatness, if it's based off of 1v1.
11:14So I can't answer to that.
11:16I think the other issue that I have...
11:18Oh yeah, that's a completely different conversation.
11:22For sure.
11:22For sure.
11:22And I love, man, let's do that this summer, Kevin.
11:26Let's break down one-versus-ones of the greatest and how they would fare.
11:31We should probably figure that out.
11:32Some dudes are fantastic, and they were great at dishing the ball.
11:35Yes.
11:35And some of them were great scorers, and I think Kevin Durant goes even higher because
11:39of his scoring acumen.
11:40And I think it's not just the free throws.
11:44It's the dramatic version in which the free throws can take place at times.
11:49Like, I'm okay if SGA got fouled.
11:51But it's okay to not fall down or to just fall down a little bit.
11:56Like, you know, I feel the same way about soccer.
11:59I don't need you to act like you got hit with a shotgun at point-blank range every time you
12:04get fouled.
12:05I'm not disputing that he got fouled.
12:07Or a sniper from 120 meters away.
12:08Yes.
12:08I'm not disputing that he got fouled.
12:10Just, you know, dial it down a little bit.
12:12And then the other issue that I have, I think specifically...
12:15How are you going to convince the refs, though, if you don't dial it up, Kevin?
12:18And so those are the two things that I think bother people the most.
12:21Because that's what irritated people at times, and probably still does, about Luka.
12:26It's the perceived whining or perceived acting.
12:29But the other reason is because they're really good.
12:32And it looks like they're going to win another championship.
12:35But the other issue that I have with all of this, and I will admit, I am a Jokic fanboy,
12:40is I do not believe Shea is the best player in the league.
12:43I think he is firmly entrenched as the second best player in the NBA right now.
12:48But with Nikola Jokic, you have no player in the history of the NBA ever has won an assist
12:55and a rebound title.
12:57At any point, like 15 years apart, year after year, never happened.
13:01He did it in the same season.
13:04With decidedly less help.
13:06And far more injury-prone help as well.
13:09I think Jokic is the best player in basketball, but Shea is second.
13:13Shea is the MVP right now.
13:15And that's the thing, is you can't take it away.
13:17And it sure does look like they're about to march to another title.
13:21Which, what's that going to do?
13:22That's only going to intensify the hatred.
13:25No one's going to go, well, he got two.
13:27Good for him.
13:28He earned it.
13:28Is there going to be a march over San Antonio?
13:30No.
13:31When you say march, you're just saying, like, getting there.
13:34If I had to guess, I would predict them to win the finals.
13:37I think this series with San Antonio is going to be great.
13:40And this is going to be a great example that you get defensive guy,
13:44Wemby super stud, against guy who always figures out a way to score the points
13:49in Shea Gilgis-Alexander.
13:50I also wonder, too, is this just part of the natural progression for Wemby?
13:57Is going through this moment, learning the hard way, not getting to the final?
14:02You know, just that natural progression of you've got to experience this
14:06and figure out how to beat them the next time.
14:08Look, and it's three distinct avenues, right?
14:10This could be his origin story for greatness, right?
14:12These could be his Pistons or Celtics if you want to go the Jordan route.
14:16Or he could skip the steps.
14:18Already feels like San Antonio's ahead of the curve.
14:20Or he gets stopped here and he turns into the, we'll see,
14:24but maybe the next Anthony Edwards who always goes far in the playoffs
14:27but never actually breaks all of the way through.
14:29And so, yeah, that's interesting, especially given that the Knicks
14:33might break a streak this year.
14:35And I hate to do this, but I think it's a little bit of both, right?
14:38Like, I think it kind of shows the acting that people get bothered by
14:45and the winning is what bothers people the most.
14:48But I also think we should appreciate some of the stuff he's doing
14:51for somebody who was traded away as part of a trade
14:54for what they thought was going to be a far better player.
14:57And that's obviously really blown up in the Clippers' face.
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