- 22 hours ago
On this episode of the RealTrending podcast, Ashley Thomas III, president of the National Association of Real Estate Brokers (NAREB), joined Tracey Velt to discuss the policies, barriers and opportunities shaping homeownership access across the country — especially within Black communities.
Thomas framed the Black homeownership gap as more than a market issue, arguing that it was created through decades of intentional policy decisions, from the Homestead Act of 1862 to Federal Housing Administration (FHA) lending practices and the GI Bill. Because policy helped create the gap, he said, policy must also play a major role in closing it.
Throughout the conversation, Thomas emphasized that access remains the industry’s biggest challenge. Even with more inventory or lower prices, many qualified buyers still struggle to navigate outdated credit models, lending standards, and qualification requirements that don’t reflect how consumers earn and manage money today.
The discussion also highlighted NAREB’s policy initiatives, including its Community Property Fairness Initiative, which focuses on FHA rules in certain states that require nonborrowing spouses’ debt to be counted during qualification. Thomas argued these rules create unnecessary barriers for housing affordability.
Velt and Thomas also discussed the industry’s broader responsibility in shaping consumer confidence. Thomas encouraged agents and brokers to avoid fueling negative market narratives, arguing that real estate professionals help shape buyer behavior through their mindset and messaging.
The conversation closed with a look at NAREB’s eight-city homeownership bus tour, which combines education, housing counseling, legal support and community outreach in cities where affordability remains within reach. For Thomas, the goal is simple: to move the conversation beyond whether it’s a good time to buy and focus instead on whether it’s the right time for individual families to begin building generational wealth through homeownership.
Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:
Policy helped create the homeownership gap — and can help close it.
Access to credit remains a major barrier.
Outdated lending models are limiting buyers.
NAREB is pushing for FHA policy changes.
The bus tour focuses on education and homeownership access.
Agents help shape buyer confidence.
Related to this episode:
Ashley Thomas III's LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashley3thomas/
National Association of Real Estate Brokers (NAREB)
https://www.nareb.com/
NAREB Affordable Homeownership Bus Tour
https://closingthegaptour.com/
The RealTrending podcast features conversations with the brightest minds in real estate. Every Monday, brokerage leaders, top agents, team leaders, and industry experts join us to share their secrets to success, trends, and the lessons they’ve learned. Hosted by Tracey Velt and produced by the HousingWire Content Studio.
Thomas framed the Black homeownership gap as more than a market issue, arguing that it was created through decades of intentional policy decisions, from the Homestead Act of 1862 to Federal Housing Administration (FHA) lending practices and the GI Bill. Because policy helped create the gap, he said, policy must also play a major role in closing it.
Throughout the conversation, Thomas emphasized that access remains the industry’s biggest challenge. Even with more inventory or lower prices, many qualified buyers still struggle to navigate outdated credit models, lending standards, and qualification requirements that don’t reflect how consumers earn and manage money today.
The discussion also highlighted NAREB’s policy initiatives, including its Community Property Fairness Initiative, which focuses on FHA rules in certain states that require nonborrowing spouses’ debt to be counted during qualification. Thomas argued these rules create unnecessary barriers for housing affordability.
Velt and Thomas also discussed the industry’s broader responsibility in shaping consumer confidence. Thomas encouraged agents and brokers to avoid fueling negative market narratives, arguing that real estate professionals help shape buyer behavior through their mindset and messaging.
The conversation closed with a look at NAREB’s eight-city homeownership bus tour, which combines education, housing counseling, legal support and community outreach in cities where affordability remains within reach. For Thomas, the goal is simple: to move the conversation beyond whether it’s a good time to buy and focus instead on whether it’s the right time for individual families to begin building generational wealth through homeownership.
Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:
Policy helped create the homeownership gap — and can help close it.
Access to credit remains a major barrier.
Outdated lending models are limiting buyers.
NAREB is pushing for FHA policy changes.
The bus tour focuses on education and homeownership access.
Agents help shape buyer confidence.
Related to this episode:
Ashley Thomas III's LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashley3thomas/
National Association of Real Estate Brokers (NAREB)
https://www.nareb.com/
NAREB Affordable Homeownership Bus Tour
https://closingthegaptour.com/
The RealTrending podcast features conversations with the brightest minds in real estate. Every Monday, brokerage leaders, top agents, team leaders, and industry experts join us to share their secrets to success, trends, and the lessons they’ve learned. Hosted by Tracey Velt and produced by the HousingWire Content Studio.
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NewsTranscript
00:10By the time you listen to this, the National Association of Real Estate Brokers will be
00:15in the middle of their eight-city homeownership bus tour. Today, I spoke with the president of
00:22NARIB, the National Association of Real Estate Brokers, Ashley Thomas III. He serves as the
00:28president. He's also CEO and founder of LA Top Broker and a managing broker of First Security
00:35Investment Company. We talked all about Black homeownership and some of the things that NARIB
00:41is doing on the policy side to boost homeownership among all different communities. So enjoy the
00:49podcast. Ashley, welcome to The Real Trending Podcast. Thank you. Happy to be here. Yeah,
00:56so I'm excited to talk about some things that are going on with NARIB right now. One of those,
01:02you were recently in Washington at the National Urban League Conference. So what's the biggest
01:08disconnect you're seeing between what policymakers think is happening in housing and what's actually
01:14happening on the ground? Yeah, one of the greatest disconnects, I think, is policymakers, which is a
01:20good thing. They understand that we have a housing problem. There's challenges. But we don't always
01:25understand how it actually shows up on the ground. And so that's something that's very, you know,
01:30important to us. So the good news is, you know, I believe that this is obviously a bipartisan
01:36acknowledgement in terms of housing being a concern. But we just really have to focus on how we roll that
01:42out. What does policy look like? And does it reach all parts of America? Yeah, absolutely. And you've
01:51talked about the the black homeownership gap, and it's one of the biggest drivers of the racial wealth
01:56divide. I know NARIB talks a lot about building wealth. So what's the part of that story that still
02:04isn't breaking through nationally? You know, I think over time, there also we lose this concept that
02:12it was intentional and that the gap had policy behind it. We often talk about the black homeownership
02:19gap as though it just happened. And like the results were individual choices or the market conditions.
02:26But the reality is it was built, you know, it was really shaped by policy. When you look back at
02:32history and you look at things like the Homestead Act of 1862, or the creation of FHA during the Great
02:39New Deal, or the GI Bill, you know, all of these were policies designed to expand homeownership and
02:46build wealth in America. And they did exactly what they were designed to do. Just unfortunately,
02:50the black community wasn't able to take part of these as long as other communities were. And that
02:55is what created the gap. And so I think that, you know, we really want to focus on policy that
03:00can
03:00correct it just like it created it. Are we making progress on that?
03:05I definitely think we're making progress. I know from an institutional perspective, the conversation
03:12of generational wealth is something that's more exciting today than what it has been. I joined the
03:18industry 27 years ago. That really wasn't the conversation that it is today. And so I think from
03:23intent, we're there with the community wanting to take part of it. But then also, I think policy makers are
03:29starting to understand, we have to do something. Yeah, absolutely. And I know Narev's closing the gap
03:37strategy, you focus on advocacy, affordability, and access. So which of those is the biggest bottleneck
03:44right now? And why? So great question. You know, since that's our theme, I'm going to say all three,
03:51but if I had to choose one, I'll comply. And I'll say access is probably our greatest concern. You know,
03:57even if we solve inventory, we bring prices down. If people still can't get through the door,
04:04then none of that really matters, right? And so what we're seeing on the ground are buyers
04:08that are closer than they ever were before, great income, stability, financially responsible,
04:13but they're getting filtered out the system because it hasn't evolved with us, right? So we have some
04:19outdated credit models. That doesn't mean that you're not credit worthy. We have some inequalities
04:25and income. That doesn't mean that you're not responsible. And even if we look at credit and
04:30how it's done, you can have on-time payments for 10 years, but your credit score is suffering because
04:35your utilization is high, but you're paying all your bills on time. So are we worried about
04:40on-time payments? Are we worrying about utilization? And I think that those are big factors into where we're
04:46at. Yeah. And actually when you're just applying for a house, if you even want to shop around
04:53mortgage companies, they're having to pull your credit. And every time they pull credit,
05:00it dings your credit score as well. Absolutely.
05:03Yeah. So what are some of the policies that you're supporting right now related to that?
05:09So we actually are pushing a big initiative called our Community Property Fairness Initiative.
05:15It's a policy. We walked the hill last week and we'll be walking again next week. But we really
05:22are focused on nine community property states where we're saying in these states, FHA is requiring that
05:27if you're a buyer and you're married and you're buying on your own, your spouse is not going on the
05:32loan,
05:33you have to qualify with their debt included as well. And so we see that as a barrier,
05:37especially in a market where interest rates are high, higher than normal, we'll just call it that,
05:43because my mother will tell me that she bought her first home at 12% interest rate. And I have
05:49to remind her it was $70,000. So interest rate had a little less of an impact back then than
05:54it does
05:54today. But when you couple that with also having to qualify with a non-borrowing spouse, that can pose
06:02a problem for a lot of Americans. Yeah, actually, my son, they're buying a house right now and they're
06:08not including his wife's income. They're in North Carolina, though. So they don't have to include her
06:13debt from what I understand. I'm in Florida. I believe they do have to include the debt in Florida.
06:19So it's interesting. Right. I'm in California. Texas is another big state that requires it,
06:26Louisiana. And so I think FHA is just saying these are state laws and we're not going to get into
06:31that.
06:31But the interesting part is the conventional, the GSEs don't require that. And so their interpretation
06:36is different. Interesting. And so mortgage access continues to be a barrier. And so what's changed or
06:46hasn't changed in lending equity over the maybe last five years?
06:51You know, I think we're still seeing some disparities in lending, especially in particular areas of the
06:58country. But the conversation around lending equity, appraisal bias, access to credit are no longer just
07:05one-off conversations. They're actually the front and center of the dialogue. And so we're very excited
07:10about that, that issues aren't arising. They're not becoming social media phenomenons and then they're
07:15disappearing. These are actually issues that we're trying to work on and find solutions for.
07:21So, you know, I think as we continue to see challenges in credit, but there's conversation
07:26about the evolution of credit and using other models to get more people in. So I think over the
07:32last five years, what we've seen is more of a return back to making homeownership and the American dream
07:39a reality as opposed to, it started to turn into just profit over people. And so we're excited that
07:45the people are returning to the conversation.
07:48Yeah, that's great. And so I know there's been a lot of policy talk lately from executive
07:53actions and then the 21st Century Road to Housing Act. What do you think has the potential to move the
08:02needle with everything that's actually happened recently?
08:06You know, when we talk policy and we talk DC, Capitol Hill, it's exciting to see that housing
08:12and homeownership continues to be something that both sides of the aisle want to correct. And so we
08:17applaud the initiatives there. We think both of these bills, whether it's executive order or 21st
08:23Century Road to Housing Act, we think they both will move the needle forward. The concern is inventory,
08:30right? And so both of these initiatives really focus on inventory. And so as we look at that,
08:36we're saying, well, that will over time take some pressure off of the affordability conversation in
08:42those, but we still have to have policy that speaks on access, you know, because we're about 4 million
08:49homes short in terms of inventory. But if we were 4 million plus and still no one could qualify or
08:57the underwriting process. It has not evolved to the way people are earning money today, right?
09:03Then we still would have a challenge.
09:06Yeah, I'm, I'm just shocked prices. I mean, there's really no dip in price, home prices.
09:12You know, we're getting a little more inventory, but home prices haven't really changed. I know it's all
09:18relative based on where you live. Um, but, but overall nationwide, they haven't. Um, so it is
09:27interesting. I mean, affordability is a huge issue, um, for every community right now. I know that, um,
09:34starter homes, I don't even remember my house was like, it was so cheap. It was like maybe 90,000.
09:42Um, and then now you're looking at 400,000 for that same house. Um, so it's crazy. Hopefully we can,
09:51we can, um, chip away at that without chipping away at the equity people are, are getting in the homes
09:57that they do own. Right. We love, you know, for all homeowners out there, they love the equity and
10:02the direction that that has been. If you're just not in the, in the marketplace, then you kind of feel
10:07that you've been being hurt by these prices going up. Yeah, absolutely. Um, so you've worked across
10:13real estate lending community development. Um, where do you see these sectors still failing to
10:19connect in a way that would expand homeownership? Yeah. So I think we're actually closer than we've
10:25ever been. Um, but they're not fully aligned. You know, if we, if we talk about seeing buyers
10:31who are educated, um, but they, they don't match to the right mortgage, uh, we've seen finance financing
10:38more available, easier to access online uses of technology. Um, but they're not matching with the
10:44types of homes that are being built or that the demand is there or whether there's inventory.
10:49And then we're seeing development happening. Um, but there's not a clear pipeline of buyers. Right.
10:55And so there's some concern there. And so I think, you know, with cities and, you know,
11:00we're going to be on our eight city, uh, bus tour affordability, what we're seeing in those,
11:04these cities is the mayor's office, the city government policy are also working with the
11:09private industry. And so when you have both of those in concert, then we can, you know,
11:13the consumers can win. Uh, but when they're working as individual, uh, in individual parallels,
11:19then they're, you know, there's no crossover, then there's a challenge. Yeah, absolutely.
11:24And let's talk about that eight city, um, home ownership bus tour. It's very boots on the ground.
11:29Um, and you're starting in Philadelphia. You said it was next week, right?
11:34We are starting this Saturday, April 25th. Okay. And so tell me a little bit about that,
11:39what you hope to accomplish and a little bit more about the cities you're going to. And,
11:45uh, you know, are they speaking events? What, what are you doing, um, there and, uh,
11:50what should the audience know about them? Yeah, absolutely. So we have decided,
11:55we've looked into data points and we came up with eight cities that we deem as affordable.
11:59There are many affordable cities in America today. Um, and so this notion or this narrative that
12:05all housing is unaffordable is not true. And so in these cities, the median income can support the
12:12median sales price. And so we really wanted to get boots on the ground intentional. Uh,
12:16unfortunately I see some rain in the forecast, but we're going anyway. Um, but we're excited about
12:21this. Um, so I think the, you know, when you talk about the boots on the ground and we're starting
12:26off
12:26in Philadelphia and I'll run through the cities, but, um, when we talk about affordability and
12:31buying a home, there's this individual notion lately that people say is now the right time to
12:37buy. And I know that that's been something, uh, that has been ongoing for many years since I've
12:42been in the industry. People say, is it going to dip? I want to get a better deal saying, I
12:46understand
12:46that. But I think what we really need to move the narrative into saying is, is now a right time
12:51to
12:51buy for me. Right. And so that's a different conversation. It's not based on market conditions.
12:57It's based on you and where you and your family are at. And so we really want to focus more
13:01on
13:02that, but we start off this Saturday in Philadelphia. We will go eight cities over eight days. We start
13:07in Philadelphia, Baltimore, Detroit, um, Gary, Indiana, Kansas city, Memphis, Tennessee, um,
13:15little rock, Arkansas, and we'll conclude in Tulsa, Oklahoma. And each of the cities,
13:19the mayors have been phenomenal, uh, wanting to see homeowners should build in their cities.
13:23You know, we go to certain markets and it's all about housing and renting. Um, so it's really
13:28refreshing to see mayors talk about generational wealth and owning a piece of the city and having
13:35the, you know, the, the, the constituents actually being able to afford, uh, a home.
13:41Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Um, and so what do you, what kind of events do you have,
13:45like educational events, um, and different community events? Um, tell me about Philadelphia.
13:51Do you have any prominent speakers coming along or, um, tell me a little bit more about that event.
13:57So we're excited to be able to have, um, the mayor present. We will also, um, have classes.
14:02Some of the classes that we're going to be doing are, you know, your typical, why, uh, owning is more
14:08important than renting. That's, you know, rent versus owning is, is of course heirs property rights is
14:13something that we have been very focused on, um, for some years now. You know, we really want to
14:19build up the home ownership rate in the community, but we cannot do that if people are losing their
14:24homes because the paperwork and the probate and all of those things aren't together and in order.
14:29So you, if you own a home, you can still come on out because we want to actually give one
14:33-on-one,
14:34um, consultation with attorneys that will be on, on site. We're also going to be talking about
14:40housing, uh, to home ownership vouchers, right? Um, you know, we've, there's been a lot of push
14:45at the white house in terms of, you know, housing vouchers and who qualifies and what that is, but
14:52there's rules in place that you can convert that to home ownership. So why aren't we doing more of
14:56that? And so we're going to be teaching those classes as well. And then we're also going to talk
15:01about credit, you know, 56% of the black community are renters. Um, and so how do we put our
15:06rent on our
15:07credit? So we're getting benefits that way. Um, whether it's buying a house, buying a car,
15:12you know, you're paying your rent on time. You should be able to get some, um, positive, uh,
15:17returns on your credit reports and your credit score for that. And so there'll be all of those
15:21classes. One-on-ones, we will have lenders available, um, housing counselors available.
15:26We will also have real estate brokers and agents available to talk about future.
15:30Great. Um, so you also have a real history store day and it's called one board, one home,
15:38one day. So what does that localized action accomplish, um, that policy might not?
15:44So for us, we, uh, the national association of real estate brokers has over 115 local boards
15:50throughout this country. Uh, we're in Boston, Los Angeles, Miami, Birmingham, we're all over. And so
15:57we're going to do one board, one home, one day. And really what this is, is really an opportunity
16:02for us to get back to the community. Right. I think one of the most important things
16:06in any relationship is actually showing up. Right. And so this gives us an opportunity to show up for
16:12our communities, restore homes, bring them back to, um, not eyesores potentially, but you know,
16:19maybe someone needed an extra hand. And so we're going to be able to do that. And so I understand
16:24that
16:24that's 115 homes across the country. That's a pure drop in the bucket. Um, but it's our drop.
16:30And it's something that we, we're excited about showing up for. Yeah, I love it. And I should
16:35mention to the audience that a realtist is a member of the national association of real estate brokers,
16:41and that is what they call their members. So, um, and for agents and brokers listening,
16:46what one thing that they're doing, even unintentionally might be limiting access to home ownership?
16:53Oh, I love this question. And in my opinion, I believe though, the one thing unintentional that
16:59I think happens is we fall into the narrative that the market is down. Um, it's a bad time to
17:04buy.
17:04And oftentimes we pass this mindset off to our clients and that, you know, and that matters
17:09because as agents and brokers, uh, we don't just participate in the market. We actually shape the
17:14market. And so when we lean on too heavy, heavily on negative, um, sentiment or hesitation,
17:22or we act as though we're uncertain, you know, that's definitely going to make the buyer uncertain.
17:27So I think there's many buyers, there's many more buyers, um, that said, I wish I would have bought
17:33the home three years ago than buyers that are saying, I wish I would not have bought the home.
17:38Right. Especially in a equity growing market. I think everyone says that that might've been the
17:44best decision I ever made. And so we want to make sure we stay with that narrative.
17:48Yeah. I mean, you know, and I talked to a lot of top producing agents and that's the one thing
17:54they have in common is there's no bad market. There's no, you know, it's the work is the work.
18:01And if you do the work, um, and you, you have a mindset, um, a positive mindset, there is no
18:07bad
18:07market. So definitely. I agree. I love that message.
18:12So if we're sitting here three years from now, um, what does real progress look like to you and
18:18what metrics matter? So, uh, real progress. And I'll say as a, as a goal of the association,
18:26you know, black homeownership rate peaked at 49.1%. We have never been over 50%. So getting to 50%
18:34and staying at 50% is very important to us. We do a lot of outreach work on how can
18:40we, um,
18:41open the credit box, give more people an opportunity, but I want to be very clear.
18:45We're very much about sustainability. I want you to get in your home and be able to stay in your
18:49home.
18:49Right. Um, but you should be able to buy a home. And so we want to be very intentional about
18:54that.
18:54So real, um, real progress to me looks like, are we sitting, you know, answering a few questions.
19:00Are we seeing more first generational home buyers entering into the marketplace?
19:05Our approval rates, uh, becoming more consistent across demographic, uh, lines. And then are we
19:12closing not just the ownership gap, but also the wealth gap in America? And we can, we believe we do
19:17that through home ownership. Yeah, absolutely. All right. I'm going to do a lightning round. So this is
19:22kind of the first thing that comes to mind. Um, one policy fix you'd implement tomorrow.
19:29I'm biased because we're working on the community property fairness initiative that we talked about
19:33earlier. I would want to fix that immediately today. And so we are all hands on deck on that right
19:38now.
19:39That's great. Um, the biggest myth about black home ownership.
19:44Um, I think that it's primarily a financial literacy issue, you know, definitely financial literacy.
19:50I believe it should be offered in every middle school in America. Right. Um, but the gap is not
19:57because of financial literacy. It also had a lot to do with policy and historical redlining and
20:03different things like that. And so I think we have to get to the narrative to say, it's not just
20:08about
20:08literacy because we all need literacy. Right. I remember buying, uh, getting free t-shirts on the first day
20:14of college, um, to sign up for a credit card. Right. I was definitely illiterate on my first day
20:20of college, but I think we can do more education, but yes, absolutely.
20:25Yeah, I totally agree on the financial literacy. I mean,
20:30you know, in school they really don't teach it. And I think it's like a vital, um, part that should
20:37be
20:37part of our schools. Um, you know, just teaching that to our students. I see that in, you know,
20:43my daughter, especially like just the, the amount of work we've had to do to teach her,
20:49like when she goes to college, what, you know, get a job and do this. And so, yeah, definitely.
20:54Right. Definitely could be used in the schools. Um,
20:58underrated lever for building wealth through housing. Buying sooner, holding longer. I think
21:06the average age of first time home buyer is now 40 years old. Um, we need to get that back
21:11into the
21:11twenties. Um, and I think that that is where we will actually see more wealth, um, in the market.
21:17So I think buying sooner and holding longer. Okay. One word that describes the market right now.
21:24Oh, I'm going to go with transitional. I think we're in a shift, not a downturn. We're not in a
21:30boom. We know that. Um, but it's a transition. The market is recalibrating, uh, from historically
21:35low interest rates, rapid appreciation into something that's a little bit more normalized.
21:40Um, so I'm going to say transitional. Okay. My last question, what gives you optimism,
21:47um, in this work that you're doing? Um, and I believe in, at the, at the core
21:52of me, I believe that this is most of us that got into this industry is actually seeing families win.
21:58Right. That's why we got, we want to be able to see a family grow, build financial wealth, um,
22:04throughout the generations. I remember some of the families that I put in homes 20 years ago,
22:09and to see the condition of that family today, it's just, it warms me, you know? And so I think
22:14that's a great thing. Yeah, absolutely. Helping people always is a, is a great thing.
22:19Um, so Ashley, thanks so much for joining the Real Trending Podcast. It was a pleasure having
22:24you on, and I wish you the best and a very successful bus tour. Thank you. I appreciate you.
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