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00:00Tonight on All In.
00:03I've never been intoxicated on the job, and that is why we filed a $250 million defamation lawsuit.
00:10Kara Lutnick on her reporting on both Kash Patel and the FBI,
00:13and today's raid of the lawmaker who led the redistricting fight in Virginia.
00:18Then, today's wild scene in Tennessee, where Republicans are using the Supreme Court to eliminate Democrats.
00:26Plus.
00:27Howard Lutnick is a pathological liar who is enabling the most egregious cover-up in American history.
00:35Congresswoman Yasemin Ansari on what she learned about Jeffrey Epstein from Howard Lutnick.
00:41And new evidence America isn't buying Donald Trump's billion-dollar ballroom bauble.
00:47I'm good at ballrooms, and we're giving you the best.
00:50I believe it's the best. It'll be the best ever, Bill.
00:54An All In starts right now.
01:01Good evening from New York. I'm Chris Hayes.
01:03Kash Patel is the most incompetent FBI director in the country's history.
01:06I don't think it's really even close.
01:08He is also willing to go whatever lengths he can to exact retribution from anyone that he feels has personally
01:13wronged him.
01:14And frankly, that's what made him an attractive choice to Donald Trump in the first place.
01:18Not that he was qualified to run the bureau.
01:22Someone else who has no qualms about abusing their position and bringing the full power of the state down on
01:27their perceived enemies.
01:28In fact, that's why Donald Trump got into the game to begin with.
01:30He seems to have a partner in Kash Patel, because we are learning much more about how dangerous the administration's
01:36revenge campaign can get.
01:38The first development revolves around this bombshell report on Patel's tenure last month by Sarah Fitzpatrick of The Atlantic.
01:45More than two dozen sources in and out of the FBI told Fitzpatrick Patel frequently disappeared from the job and
01:51drank to excess.
01:52He was erratic, suspicious of others, and prone to jumping conclusions before he has necessary evidence.
01:57Hmm. On multiple occasions in the past year, she wrote members of a security detail had difficulty waking Patel because
02:06he was seemingly intoxicated and notably a request for breaching equipment normally used by SWAT and hostage rescue teams to
02:15quickly gain entry into buildings was made last year because Patel had been unreachable behind locked doors, according to multiple
02:22people familiar with the request.
02:24Now, you might remember, Patel issued a blanket denial.
02:28The Atlantic included that denial in their piece.
02:30Fitzpatrick in the magazine said, we stand by our story, even said they had gotten corroboration from more sources after
02:37the story was published.
02:38Then Patel sued the magazine and the reporter for defamation for $250 million.
02:45A seemingly rushed, error-ridden lawsuit had a bunch of typos, misspellings in it.
02:50That was ridiculed as an obvious ploy by most legal experts who read it.
02:55Today, things appear to have escalated because it's no longer the domain of a private lawsuit, but rather the government
03:02that represents all of us.
03:04According to exclusive reporting by MSNOW reporters Carol Lennigan and Ken Delanian, Patel's FBI, which is to say our FBI,
03:12the American FBI, has now launched a criminal leak investigation into Sarah Fitzpatrick, the author of that Atlantic story.
03:20An investigation sources call, quote, highly unusual.
03:24It could now be used as an excuse to obtain Fitzpatrick's phone records, run her name and information through FBI
03:29databases, examine her social media contacts.
03:33I'm going to be talking with reporter Carol Lennigan about all that in just a second.
03:36There's only one way to interpret it.
03:38It is an attempt to chill critical reporting.
03:40It is, obviously, a flagrant attack on the First Amendment.
03:44It is not the first time Kash Patel's FBI appears to have done this.
03:47Last month, you might remember, the New York Times reported the FBI launched a criminal stalking probe into one of
03:53the Times reporters for writing a story on Patel's girlfriend.
03:59Here is how Patel responded when asked about those allegations.
04:03This same reporter delivered a baseless story which caused a direct threat of life to my girlfriend.
04:09We are going to protect not only me and my loved ones, but every American that is threatened.
04:13But here's the thing. Me and mine are like you and President Trump, where as tough as they come, we're
04:18not going to stand down.
04:19We're not going to take a knee on this one or anything.
04:23Now, that probe went nowhere.
04:25The Times correctly called it what it was, the Trump administration examining whether to criminalize routine news gathering practices that
04:30are widely considered protected by the First Amendment.
04:34Apparently all because of Kash Patel's personal animus against reporters.
04:38The threatening reporter wasn't the only thing the FBI was up to today.
04:43Federal agents are arresting people in that string of FBI raids across Virginia.
04:48This is all connected to an influential Democrat in the Commonwealth of Virginia, State Senator Luis Lucas.
04:54They are at her office executing warrants as a part of a major corruption probe.
05:00Now, you see that picture there?
05:02The FBI agents in camouflage with long guns.
05:07You think that's necessary for this raid of the office?
05:10Here are those FBI agents this morning raiding the office of Louise Lucas.
05:14Look at them.
05:1582-year-old state representative.
05:17You think you've got to do that for that?
05:19Or you think that's done for the cameras?
05:21Lucas, the second woman of color to serve in Virginia State Senate after growing up under Jim Crow.
05:26The move comes, as you might know, just two weeks after it was Lucas, who almost more than anyone else,
05:32led the successful push to redraw Virginia's congressional districts, to favor Democrats, to respond to the actions of Donald Trump
05:41and Republican state legislators to tip the playing field, and in clear defiance of Donald Trump.
05:50They started, we'll finish it.
05:52We would not be in this place if it had not been for Donald Trump and his shenanigans and trying
05:56to get what he called five new seats and he was at the top of two.
06:00He ain't entitled to anything.
06:02He ain't entitled to anything.
06:05In a statement responding to the raid, Lucas said, quote,
06:07I've never been afraid to stand up to Donald Trump or anyone else that has tried to undermine our democracy,
06:11adding I am not backing down.
06:13The FBI says the raid is part of a years-long corruption investigation into Lucas and a bunch of local
06:18cannabis dispensaries in Virginia.
06:22And that may very well be the case, maybe.
06:25Do you trust them?
06:27Can anyone look at this FBI and this Justice Department right now in this moment and simply assume they are
06:33acting in good faith?
06:34Assume it's a coincidence these raids came shortly after the Virginia referendum Lucas led.
06:40Also, just a week after Patel giddily announced a new criminal indictment of longtime Trump critic and former FBI director
06:47James Comey.
06:48Should we also wonder who tipped off a Fox News correspondent to Lucas raid after Fox was the only station
06:54on the scene in southeast Virginia when the raid appeared to start?
06:59Now, again, whatever the facts turn out to be in this case, again, I'm withholding judgment as to what the
07:04actual merit is.
07:05It is, of course, conceivable.
07:06There's some wrongdoing here that was investigated.
07:10The thing about where we are right now, and I can't stress this enough, is that Trump and Blanche and
07:16Patel,
07:17the entire administration from the White House out down, have forfeited any, any presumption of regular order or good faith.
07:26In fact, they have created a presumption contrary to that.
07:30You must assume as a rebuttable presumption that what they're doing is retaliation, that the cases they're bringing aren't warranted.
07:39Because they want the most powerful law enforcement agency in the U.S. government to work for them personally and
07:44no one else.
07:44And they've been very clear about that.
07:46The irony is this is all happening after a weekend in which Patel was mocked on Saturday Night Live.
07:54Is it true that you, the director of the FBI, was locked out of your own email account?
08:00That's just more lies.
08:01I've always been able to log into my email, except for a brief 36-hour period of time when I
08:08forgot I had changed my password to Cash Me Outside 69.
08:14Now, I have to say, I have come to the conclusion, weirdly and perhaps reluctantly, that it's probably a good
08:19thing Cash Patel isn't more competent at his job,
08:21that he does seem to be checked out and in over his head.
08:24He keeps trying to intimidate reporters, and so far it isn't working.
08:27Just today, the Atlantic reporter, who is now under criminal investigation for reporting on Patel, published a news story.
08:34This one based on additional information from news sources detailing how Cash Patel travels with a supply of personalized branded
08:41bourbon.
08:43Carol Lennig is a senior investigative reporter who broke this story for MSNOW.
08:46She's author of Injustice, and she joins me now.
08:49Carol, can you tell us about the contours of this investigation that's been opened to the FBI,
08:53who the target of it is, what prompted it, and what the concerns are about it?
08:59Yes and no, Chris.
09:02My colleague Ken Delaney and I broke the story this morning with great care to meet a threshold for publishing,
09:10right?
09:10We want it to be accurate, and we want to tell people what we do and we don't know.
09:14What we know is FBI agents in Huntsville, Alabama, were ordered from the executive suite of Cash Patel
09:21to begin an investigation some weeks ago in which they were supposed to look into contacts of the reporter at
09:29The Atlantic
09:30who published this story.
09:31Who was she talking to?
09:33Could they look at her phone?
09:34Could they look at her metadata for her phone records?
09:37Could they look at her social media to determine who she was sort of connected to or friends with?
09:42We don't know which of those investigative steps have been taken.
09:45We know this, though, Chris.
09:47FBI agents find it very disturbing.
09:50They were ordered to do this, and they fear they will be fired, or they feared they would be fired
09:55if they didn't agree,
09:56and they don't believe there's any precedent or predication, any warranted reason for bringing this case.
10:04You asked about target and subject.
10:06We are under the impression from our sources that a target hasn't exactly been chosen.
10:13What they're trying to do is find the leakers who've been communicating with The Atlantic reporter,
10:19and then, obviously, she'd be a subject-slash-witness as they try to probe who provided her with this information.
10:29You've reported on the Bureau for a long time.
10:32You've reported on the U.S. Secret Service and other.
10:35Just to take a step back, you said a detail there, and it's in the reporting.
10:38Excellent piece by you and Ken Delaney.
10:41This was directed from the director's suite.
10:44I mean, again, this is, at least in the sort of, let's say, the post-Hoover days, right?
10:50Republican, Democrat, whatever.
10:52The director is not calling people up and saying, go look into this thing, generally.
10:59I mean, these are, there are, you know, there's members of the Bureau, there are agents who are finding stuff,
11:03and they're getting tips, and they're working cases, but that in and of itself is wildly abnormal, right, before Kash
11:10Patel.
11:12Wildly abnormal on so many scales.
11:15I mean, let's start with the first one.
11:18Reporters, historically, have been off limits for the Department of Justice and the FBI
11:24to start scouring through their records or their communications or even examine, you know,
11:30their social media to try to figure out who are they buddies with, who are they connected to,
11:35who do they communicate with in some sort of informal way.
11:40The Department of Justice had a long-running policy, first informally and then codified by former Attorney General Merrick Garland,
11:49which was, we will not ever compel telephone providers or Internet providers to give us data about reporters,
11:59you know, their contacts in their news gathering.
12:02We will not do that unless there are exceptional circumstances.
12:06Those exceptional circumstances include permission and approval from the Attorney General or the Deputy Attorney General.
12:12Those exceptional circumstances included, past tense, the reporter possibly being an agent of a foreign state.
12:21Evidence to suggest that.
12:23None of that's going on here.
12:25Also, Chris, another norm buster in this instance.
12:29The Department of Justice has typically not opened a criminal case in a leak unless they believe classified information has
12:36been released.
12:37There's no indication of classified information being in this Atlantic story.
12:42I mean, possibly sensitive, but classified, no.
12:47And then let's just go to the third thing.
12:50You don't open an investigation full stop in the FBI or the Department of Justice unless you have a reasonable
12:58basis to believe a crime has occurred.
13:00And that is why sources within the FBI came to Ken and to me, because they don't see a reason
13:10for this to go forward in any way, shape or form.
13:13Yeah, you're right.
13:14There's deep concern about the approach amongst some of the FBI agents assigned to the matter who are granted anonymity
13:20in order to speak freely about a sensitive matter.
13:22They know they're not supposed to do this, one source said, but if they don't go forward, they could lose
13:26their jobs.
13:26You're damned if you do and damned if you don't.
13:28I want to I want to play something for you, because there's a I'm not going to ask you about
13:32the Louise Lucas case, because, you know, unless you have sort of reporting on it, you know, I'm not.
13:39We're not sure yet. Right. We're sort of.
13:42I do. Go ahead. I do have a little reporting.
13:44I'm happy to share with you, but keep on your train and we'll come back to it.
13:48Well, you know, here's the way it looks from the outside.
13:53Pam Bondi was was fired.
13:55She was subsequently replaced by acting Attorney General Todd Blanche.
13:59Kash Patel, multiple reports that he's fighting for his job.
14:03As as much as it appeared from the outside, the Department of Justice was being abused to political ends, bringing
14:08cases that were very weak against political enemies.
14:11It seems like even that bar has kind of lowered.
14:14I think the Comey example being a good one. Right.
14:16That that image existed a year ago.
14:19They didn't bring a case before.
14:21They're bringing one now.
14:22And and and so it seems like whatever friction there might have been internal to the Department of Justice and
14:27the FBI before has been removed as low as it was.
14:31And now it's kind of like.
14:35Anything is permitted and it's impossible to escape that context as I watch the Louise Lucas news today.
14:43Yes, I can tell you again, I think it's super helpful to say what we know and what we don't
14:48know.
14:49But Chris, your summary is exactly right on this one point since Pam Bondi's firing by the president in which
14:59he told aides and he told her that he was dissatisfied with her inability to successfully bring prosecutions against the
15:08people he considered criminals.
15:10But we all know are essentially people that criticized him or he views as his enemies and.
15:18And with rapid fire kind of speed, the acting attorney general, according to those people who speak to us inside
15:30the building, began auditioning hard for the job permanently and very, very quickly turned up the heat on a host
15:39of prosecutions.
15:41Comey was in was charged in a case that FBI agents and even other U.S.
15:50Attorneys and even Pam Bondi believed was extremely weak.
15:54And that was what we know as the seashells case.
15:57Right.
15:58The other case involving claiming that he lied to Congress got dismissed because the president didn't legally nominate and couldn't
16:06get confirmed a U.S.
16:08attorney.
16:08And so now we're going to go to North Carolina and Blanche is going to bring make a case happen
16:14in which there's a an argument that a social media posting of shells on the beach is a threat of
16:20harm or violence to the president.
16:23Even Pam Bondi did not believe this case was very good and she wanted to wait on it.
16:29Blanche turned up the heat.
16:31That's exclusive reporting for me and Ken Delaney and others.
16:35I.
16:37Want to answer something about Louise Lucas's case.
16:41Her case is one I've been watching for quite some time.
16:44It was pressed hard by Lindsay Halligan, the U.S.
16:50attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia, who I just mentioned, was not legally appointed to the job.
16:57She was pressuring prosecutors in the Eastern District to charge Lucas and prosecutors there believed and told me that Halligan
17:07was trying to score a point.
17:09Right. We're going to charge a prominent Democrat in Virginia in who's close to the governor at a time right
17:17before the midterms.
17:18And we're going to essentially sort of muddy up another Democrat.
17:23But I will warn everyone that.
17:27This case was viewed by prosecutors as difficult, but also legitimate.
17:32It began under the Biden administration and prosecutors, when Halligan was pressuring them, said, we are not ready.
17:40We don't have enough.
17:41We're still working on this.
17:43And we still don't know if charges ultimately will be brought.
17:47But we know a very, very serious investigative step has been taken.
17:52But she was under investigation since 2024 for possibly taking, you know, and soliciting bribes, an honest services fraud case.
18:01Whether or not there's evidence to sustain a conviction and whether or not charges are going to be brought is
18:07still an open question.
18:09I would just note that the Roberts Supreme Court has just absolutely eviscerated the honest services jurisprudence, which has been
18:17just completely destroyed.
18:18And if we're going to bring back honest services, there's a lot of people in this government right now who
18:23might want to look over their back.
18:25Carol Ennick, I appreciate your very careful, thorough and rigorous reporting, as always.
18:31Thank you, Chris.
18:32Coming up, Republicans move to eliminate black representatives from the former Confederacy.
18:37Simple as that.
18:37Stacey Abrams was at today's big protest in Tennessee.
18:40She joins me here next.
18:46Republicans now have a plan to resegregate the representation in the former Confederate states.
18:53Full stop.
18:53That is a plan right now to get rid of black elected members in the states of the old Confederacy.
18:59And they were aided, facilitated in that plan when Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, John Roberts, fulfilled a lifelong
19:05goal, delivering with five other conservative justices, including the three selected by Donald Trump, effectively a fatal blow to the
19:12crucial Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act.
19:14The very next day, Republican states began to put forward plans for new maps that disenfranchised black voters, remove their
19:22ability to have a meaningful say in who represents them.
19:24Florida has already redrawn its maps.
19:26Efforts are underway in Alabama, in Mississippi, Louisiana, which declared a state of emergency after 40,000 people had already
19:33started voting.
19:35Over the past 24 hours, protests erupted in the Tennessee capital around the state and around the state.
19:40After Republicans, again, moving very swiftly, revealed the state's new map, which eliminates, you'll never guess, the only majority black
19:48district and the only state represented by, only district represented by a Democrat in the whole state.
19:52Stacey Abrams addressed the Tennessee State Senate today, speaking out against the effort to redraw district lines.
19:57She's the leader of the 10 Steps campaign, host of Cricket Media podcast, Assembly Required, and she joins me now.
20:03Stacey, let me just start by what the scene was like in Tennessee today.
20:07We saw lots of protests. We see people sort of marshalling collective resistance to this, but they're being steamrolled right
20:14now, it seems, by a super majority of Republicans in the state.
20:19Absolutely. So, Chris, we were in the Senate Judiciary Committee hearing.
20:24No one was allowed in except for those of us who were testifying and the members of the committee.
20:29Outside, you could hear chants. You could see people who desperately wanted to be a part of the conversation but
20:36were denied the right.
20:37And inside, the leader, the minority leader, Ramesh Akbari, had to ask where the bill was.
20:43And what they said is, well, we don't have the legislation yet. We just have a map.
20:47So, basically, they were considering a picture.
20:49They didn't even, they moved so quickly, they didn't even have the text of the bill.
20:54And having served in the legislature for 11 years, I'm here to tell you, I don't remember voting on a
21:01bill that didn't actually exist.
21:03So, we know that the Republicans in Tennessee had already moved in a previous round of redistricting.
21:10There used to be a congressional seat around Nashville.
21:12You've got Nashville and Memphis. Those are the two largest cities in the state.
21:15There was a congressional seat around Nashville, tended to elect Democrats, and one around Memphis, right?
21:20They cracked that Nashville congressional district into three different districts, leaving Memphis, Memphis a majority black city, Memphis being that
21:30district represented by Steve Cohen, white man, actually, who's represented a majority black district for many years, just to show
21:35that, you know, majority black districts don't only and exclusively elect black representatives.
21:40They are now going to take the city of Memphis, which obviously is a coherent political community, obviously should have
21:47some representation in the United States House of Representatives, and do the same to that, split it up into three
21:51different districts, so there's no Democrats and no majority black district in the entire state of Tennessee.
21:58Is that right?
21:59That is absolutely correct.
22:02Sixty-one percent of the ninth congressional district is African-American.
22:07Sixty-four percent of Memphis is black.
22:10And with this decision, they have managed to divide that number so that there are 33 percent of the black
22:16population in three different districts.
22:18They did this intentionally.
22:20In fact, one of – in fact, the author of the legislation said, we're a conservative state, and we should
22:25have all conservative districts.
22:26They know that they are intentionally eroding black voting power.
22:31They are removing the last remaining opportunity for black voters and for brown voters and for white neighbors to have
22:39a voice simply because one out of nine is too many.
22:44This is not just about partisanship.
22:47This is about deciding that there are voters in America, there are citizens in America who they do not value,
22:53and they were explicit about this today.
22:56Yeah, I want to – we had a reporter down there today who talked to some folks.
23:00I want to just play some of the sound there of people watching this unfold and how they're feeling about
23:06it.
23:06Take a listen.
23:08If we don't have representation, then we definitely will go into silence, right?
23:15We need somebody out there that can speak on our behalf, knows the community, knows what we need, and can
23:20bring it back to us.
23:22So this is definitely an attack on us, an attack on our rights.
23:27If you had a message for the Republicans that push for this, whether it's the governor, whether it's President Trump,
23:32what would it be?
23:34Follow what the people want.
23:37Follow what the people want.
23:39There is no public hearings.
23:41There is no community input.
23:44It's just like, okay, this is what the president wants, so because he wants it, that's what we're going to
23:49do.
23:49That's unfair to people.
23:51People's lives is getting ready to be changed tremendously across all of these districts because in order to make this
24:00happen, it's always a ripple effect.
24:03That last point there, Stacey, I just want to note this.
24:06We bang on about this, but I think it's important.
24:09Donald Trump initiated this with Texas.
24:11Texas passed their new map very quickly to give five Republican seats, they project.
24:16There was no ratification by that by the voters.
24:20California responded and had a ballot initiative.
24:22Passed overwhelmingly.
24:24Right?
24:24Virginia, ballot initiative.
24:26Did it in their legislative session, then they had to go to the voters to ratify it.
24:30Missouri passed without voter input.
24:33Florida passed without voter input.
24:35Texas passed without voter input.
24:36Now Tennessee, in a day, passing without voter input.
24:39And we're seeing it in Louisiana, Alabama, and Mississippi all queued up.
24:46Look, Chris, what they've been very clear about is that they do not care for democracy.
24:51They do not like democracy.
24:53We are a backsliding democracy heading full tilt into authoritarianism.
24:57And this is how you get there in America.
25:00You get there by denying people not only their right to vote, but the relevance of their citizenship.
25:05And you do that by saying that we won't even bother to ask you before we strip you of any
25:11say that you can have.
25:12The reason I created the 10 Steps campaign is to aggregate for Americans who want to fight back, regardless of
25:18your partisanship.
25:19If you have patriotism in your heart, we need to start pushing back because Republicans are not going to stop
25:25this.
25:25They want the power that comes with shutting people down.
25:29This is an act of cowardice.
25:31It is an act of cowardice that will not stop unless Americans stop it.
25:36And that means not just those of us in the South.
25:38I mean, I flew up this morning from Georgia to Tennessee because I'm in the South and I know what
25:43happens to one of us will happen to all of us.
25:44And apparently by Thursday. But what I also know is that across this country, there are Americans of good conscience
25:51who can be investing in voter registration and voter I.
25:54But also asking their states to pass voting rights acts, pass better maps, because until we reassert that democracy means
26:03all Americans, then what is happening in the South is starting here.
26:07But it won't stop here.
26:08Stacey Abrams, very, very true. Thank you for making time tonight.
26:11Remember, you can catch Stacey in highlights of all the Crooked Media podcasters, including my beloved wife on MSNOW Saturday
26:17nights at 9 p.m.
26:18Eastern. We'll be right back.
26:22We say, I'm sorry, we have to go. And we left. And in the six or eight steps it takes
26:33to get from his house to my house, my wife and I decided that I will never be in the
26:40room with that disgusting person ever again.
26:44Did you, in fact, make the visit to Jeffrey Epstein's private island?
26:49I did have lunch with him as I was on a boat going across on a family vacation.
26:55My wife was with me, as were my four children and nannies.
27:01Donald Trump's Secretary of Commerce, Howard Lutnick, was on Epstein Island.
27:04He saw just there. Of course, he lied about that to everyone until, well, the Epstein files came out.
27:09And yeah, it turns out there was also a picture of Lutnick and his family with Epstein on his island.
27:15No picture of the nannies. It was 2012. Apparently they all had lunch.
27:19Files also revealed that Lutnick and Jeffrey Epstein actually emailed back and forth quite a bit.
27:23Now, to be clear, Lutnick hasn't been accused of any criminal wrongdoing, but it is a lot of interactions for
27:29a guy who famously told everyone he never wanted to be in a room with that disgusting person ever again.
27:36So since last October, Democrats on the House Oversight Committee have been trying to get Lutnick to answer questions about
27:41all this.
27:42This morning, he finally appeared for that interview, entering with a phalanx, heavy security, to give testimony behind closed doors.
27:48Joining me now is someone who is in the room interviewing Howard Lutnick, Congresswoman Yasemin Ansari, Democrat of Arizona.
27:55Congresswoman, thanks for joining us.
27:56First, just your impressions of what you learned from Howard Lutnick in this testimony today.
28:04Well, honestly, today was a wild experience.
28:07I think, you know, we've been conducting this investigation for several months now.
28:11But today's deposition was very jarring.
28:15I think Howard Lutnick was lying over and over and over again.
28:18You showed a bit of that podcast where he famously said just last year, in 2025, that he thought Jeffrey
28:25Epstein was disgusting and that when he met him in 2005, his wife and him decided that he would never
28:31see him again.
28:32And then, of course, it came to light that in 2012, he did go to the island.
28:36We asked him about all of this at length today.
28:38And I found two things very interesting about what he tried to say today that made me question his credibility
28:45and made me believe that he is lying.
28:47First of all, he was asked about how last year he said that he believed that Jeffrey Epstein was blackmailing
28:55people.
28:56And today, when he was asked whether or not he believes that, he said that he does not.
29:00And when he was pressed on why that's the case, he said that it's because of conversations he's had with
29:06administration officials.
29:08And then when pressed again, he said actually he's had no conversations with administration officials about it and that actually
29:16it's from public statements from administration officials.
29:18So a lot of very questionable and quite frankly, lies again, coming over and over again from Lutnick.
29:25I also pressed him about his knowledge of Jeffrey Epstein's crimes when he decided to go to the island in
29:322012.
29:32I was a child in 2008 when, of course, Jeffrey Epstein got this crazy sweetheart deal when he was accused
29:40of abusing girls, children,
29:43and then ultimately was prosecuted, although through this sweetheart deal.
29:48Howard Lutnick tried to tell us today that he knew nothing about that.
29:52I mean, if that is not the biggest lie imaginable, I don't know what is.
29:57Everybody knew about Jeffrey Epstein, at least about accusations against him, even if you didn't believe the accusation.
30:03So this is someone who, again, may not be criminal wrongdoing, but he's clearly lying to the American people.
30:10I believe that he lied under oath today. There's a reason to me that Republicans decided not to have this
30:17interview recorded and released to the American public.
30:20I recommend every single American go and read the transcription when it does come out,
30:24because you will find somebody who is clearly lying, is clearly part of a White House cover up.
30:30And that's why this investigation is really just getting started.
30:34Sorry, I want to make sure that I understand this. You said was he under oath or not?
30:39This was a written transcription. And so, I mean, he is speaking to Congress.
30:44I believe he was under oath, but it's just not recorded and being released.
30:49And who decided that it wouldn't be videotaped?
30:53I tried to ask this question today, and it was very unclear.
30:57They said that they've been in negotiations with the Republican majority and would not be clear about whether it was
31:03a request from Lutnik or whether or not this was something that was a decision made by Chairman Comer.
31:09So I just want to make sure I have this clear. So Lutnik's testimony to you today was that in
31:142012, when he and his children, his wife and their nannies had lunch with Jeffrey Epstein on his island and
31:22were photographed there.
31:24He said they all departed with all children and all nannies. I want to put that on the record, that
31:29he did that and having no idea of the accusations of Jeffrey Epstein of the plea deal, despite the fact
31:35that he told the New York Post that he found the guy disgusting, who is his neighbor.
31:41And presumably, I would think, Googled the guy. So his testimony today was he had no idea about any of
31:47that.
31:48I think he said he did not recall. He did not know. He was not aware. And that's when, you
31:53know, I honestly got a little bit upset because, again, I was like, I knew about it.
31:56I was a kid at the time. It was all over the news. And this man was your neighbor.
32:01And again, part of his testimony throughout this, he gave a whole story about how they met in 2005.
32:08He recounted much of what he said in the podcast and said that he stood by it, that they did
32:12find him unsettling, that his wife really felt uncomfortable around him and that they agreed that there would be no
32:18personal, social, professional relationship.
32:21Then later, he admitted that going to his island would be considered a social relationship.
32:27So, I mean, this is where he got pretty defensive and he, you know, just didn't didn't really he felt
32:35very uncomfortable.
32:35It was very clear because it just I'm sure it felt ridiculous coming out of his mouth, the words that
32:41he was saying.
32:42Finally, and quickly, we have news tonight about this purported suicide note discovered and now released that Jeffrey Epstein, again,
32:50is sort of said to have written.
32:52That was found by the cellmate in a book subsequently that has now been turned unearthed in which he says
32:59the investigation made me for a month found nothing.
33:01So 10 year old charges resulted. It is a treat to be able to choose one's time to say goodbye.
33:05What you want me to do? Burst out crying. No fun. Not worth it.
33:10I have absolutely no idea myself whether this is authentic or not, how one would go about authenticating it.
33:17But what what is your position from the Oversight Committee?
33:21You know, obviously, this just came out in the last couple of hours.
33:24I think important to wait to see if it can be authenticated, who would be doing that.
33:29I agree. I mean, this all kind of goes back to the Department of Justice, though, in my mind.
33:33I mean, this is the Department of Justice.
33:36This should be there. One of their number one priorities.
33:38This investigation, it was it was promised to us, actually, by this administration that it would be.
33:43And of course, we know everything that's happened since. But again, this is something this is allegedly a note from
33:502019 now coming to light.
33:53I think hopefully, you know, we need to be demanding that this, you know, is validated or not.
33:59But I don't really know that it makes a difference in any in any tangible way.
34:04There is clearly an ongoing cover up happening from the White House because there is constantly new information and there's
34:12constantly attempts to withhold information from the I mean, there's so much in the Epstein files that we still need
34:18to find out whether or not those materials are authentic.
34:22And I know all of us on the Oversight Committee are eager to know that.
34:25But the American public in such a bipartisan basis, this is a huge, huge priority for Americans.
34:30And justice for the survivors is still long overdue. And it feels like we're not even close.
34:37Congresswoman Yasmin Ansari, thanks so much for your time.
34:41Still to come, the country's at war. Gas prices are through the roof.
34:44The president is still talking about his ballroom next.
34:55It is really tough to say what is going on with the war Donald Trump started over 60 days ago.
35:00One thing is clear is that he's bored by the whole thing and instead remains laser focused on two things
35:05above all else.
35:07Revenge and his precious ballroom.
35:10That's the entrance to the new ballroom that's being built.
35:13I was in a position being a builder and having built many ballrooms and many other things.
35:18I'm I'm good at ballrooms.
35:19It really has become very popular when when people see the design.
35:23They really they really like it.
35:25And it's been great getting some great reviews.
35:28I was today at an event with military family members.
35:32Donna Edwards, former Democratic congressman of Maryland.
35:34Ari Berman is a national voting rights correspondent for Mother Jones.
35:37And they join me now.
35:39Don, I find the ballroom obsession so sort of fascinating and all sort of like perversely kind of comical.
35:46And I think to myself, like, am I losing my mind here that this is such a stupid thing for
35:51them to do politically at a time when, like, people hate the fact that costs are rising everywhere?
35:56Here's the polling on it right now.
35:59Fifty five percent opposed tearing down the East Wing to build the ballroom.
36:02Only twenty five percent support.
36:03And Jake Sherman, who's as wired among Republicans and Congress as anyone, basically saying that he wonders if Republicans will
36:10be able to keep the one billion dollars in the reconciliation bill for this, which makes me think it probably
36:17is kind of an albatross for them.
36:21Well, I mean, first of all, it's now six hundred million dollars over budget, over the four hundred million wasteful
36:29dollars that Trump said he was going to spend.
36:32This should be the nail in the coffin of fiscal conservatism, given that we can't find money to make sure
36:40that children who are hungry are able to eat.
36:42We can't find any money to extend those Obamacare subsidies that disappeared in December.
36:51You know, another whatever trillion or a couple of trillion dollars for a war that was unnecessary.
36:57I mean, this is an absolute disaster.
37:00The American people know it.
37:01Their prices are going up on everything from gas to groceries to housing.
37:06And this president and this GOP want to find a billion dollars for a gilded lily ballroom.
37:14And at the same time, right, like you saw him, you know, again, this meant you can't keep him away
37:18from the ballroom.
37:19Right. Straight up hormones has been closed for months.
37:22Diesel six dollars a gallon.
37:24Wants to talk about.
37:24And the other thing they marshal focus on is the maps.
37:28Right. And doing that.
37:30There is an incredible account, you know, one of those primary state Senate primary races in Indiana, the one actually
37:36that that Trump's challenger lost.
37:38Good. Who won that.
37:40There's this incredible account of like the White House office, like a million people calling someone in that race to
37:45try to get them to drop out so that they could get the clean one on one.
37:49And I was just thinking to myself, there is more effort going into the map and the ballroom than any
37:56other problem that any American faces in America.
37:59Well, that just epitomizes the Trump administration and it just epitomizes what they're focused on right now.
38:05And the Indiana Senate results came at a really bad time because basically the fact that the Republicans did the
38:13right thing in voting against these maps,
38:15but then were ousted in the Republican primary reinforces all the worst instincts of the Republican Party.
38:21And the Kalei decision in particular was so damaging, both from a substance and a timing perspective, from a substance
38:28perspective and that it totally gutted the Voting Rights Act, rewrote the 15th Amendment,
38:32but also the timing perspective, that it gave states, southern states that you covered earlier in the show, just enough
38:37time to redraw their maps for the midterms without Democrats to really counter it.
38:42And then you had the Indiana primary basically sending a signal to these Republicans in Mississippi and Alabama and Louisiana.
38:48You better follow us or else you're going to lose your job.
38:52You know, there's there's an old onion headline, Don, I always think about and I forget when it was,
38:57but it was basically like during the Iraq wars, during 2004 when Bush was running for reelection and it was
39:02Iraqis stunned by competence of Bush reelection campaign.
39:07Like here they are watching the substantive agenda be visited upon them in chaos and like they're running this reelection
39:13campaign that looks like it's going pretty well.
39:14And I think about that as I watch the map push, right?
39:17None of the substantive problems like the cost of groceries, the cost of gas or like Iran being resolved.
39:23None of that is getting better, but they are really, really focused on trying to get rid of every last
39:30black Democrat in Congress who represents anyone in the states of the old South.
39:36Well, because they I mean, fundamentally, this is about them being petrified that come November, these elections will be lost
39:44and Democrats will gain control of the Senate.
39:47And Trump especially is focused on that because he knows that it's going to open up the kind of oversight
39:53that he hasn't faced in the last year and a half.
39:56And so that's not a surprise.
39:59I think what they will be surprised, though, is that the American people are not going to buy this.
40:03I don't care whether they're Republicans or Democrats.
40:06They go to the gas pump and they're paying more for their gas.
40:09They go to the grocery stores and they're paying more for their their groceries.
40:13It is intolerable. And I think that, you know, it's the reason that voters in these states sent signals to
40:21their electives that they don't want this unfair redrawing mid cycle redistricting.
40:28And so it's going to come back to bite them.
40:31Well, one of the things, right, is that you've got two universes now.
40:34You've got increasingly this kind of sealed off MAGA universe that was on display in the electorate in those Indiana
40:40state Senate seats.
40:41Right. And then you've got everyone else and everyone else is like down on this.
40:45This polling to me jumped out at me.
40:47They asked Republicans who would win when a physical fight with Trump.
40:51Would you be able to beat up Donald Trump or would he beat you up?
40:54Thirty nine percent of Republicans said Trump would beat me up.
40:59And to me, it's like that's exactly captures that there's this reality distortion field around that GOP primary electorate that's
41:06totally distinct from the rest of the electorate.
41:08Well, and that's what's going to motivate Republicans in these states that are redrawing the maps in Tennessee and Mississippi
41:13and Alabama, Louisiana.
41:14I mean, these are the reddest of the red states in the country.
41:17They're all operating in that world.
41:18Exactly. That's why there has to be a political backlash to what they're doing.
41:22I mean, they are taking away districts that have existed for decades in a matter of days.
41:27I mean, Memphis has been part of one congressional district in Tennessee since 1923.
41:33And in a matter of days, they are just ripping it completely apart.
41:38There has to be a political price to pay for this.
41:40It has to go beyond the MAGA universe to say that if you just rip apart communities for no good
41:47reason, there has to be a political price to pay for it.
41:501923. That's an amazing stat.
41:52Donna Edwards, Ari Berman, thank you both.
41:53Stay tuned. In just a few minutes, Jen Psaki will be speaking with Congressman Jamie Raskin on the latest Kash
41:58Patel reporting.
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