- 3 months ago
The TDN Writers' Room was ecstatic to be joined by Cherie DeVaux, who made history as the first woman to win the Kentucky Derby. The trainer discussed her thoughts on Golden Tempo's performance, what the ride has been like post-Derby and what the win meant to her. Stay tuned for two editions of the TDN Writers' Room Overtime, where we'll chat with Jose Ortiz and Daisy Phipps Pulito.
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00:00:18And welcome to the TDN Writer's Room.
00:00:20In fact, it is our TDN Writer's Room Derby Wrap-Up Edition.
00:00:24My name is Bill Finley.
00:00:25I'm a correspondent for the Thoroughbred Daily News.
00:00:28I am Randy Moss with NBC Sports, catching up on my sleep.
00:00:35You probably deserve it.
00:00:37You probably do.
00:00:38That was a lot of hours in front of the camera.
00:00:40I'm Zoe Cabman with First Racing and First TV.
00:00:43Glad to be here on a not-so-sunny Tuesday here in sunny California.
00:00:48So before we get started, I just want to let you know we're going to do things a little bit
00:00:52differently on this week's TDN Writer's Room podcast.
00:00:55There were so many great stories, and we wanted to cover as many as possible.
00:01:01So not only do we have our normal Gainesway Guest of the Week, which is, of course, Cherie DeVoe.
00:01:06Who else would we possibly have on after her historic win as the first female ever to capture the Kentucky
00:01:12Derby, which she did with Golden Tempo?
00:01:14We also have the winning jockey in Jose Ortiz.
00:01:17We also have the winning co-owner in Daisy Phipps Polito.
00:01:21So you're going to be watching our main TDN Writer's Room podcast here.
00:01:27But look for what we're calling TDN Writer's Room Podcast Overtime, and that'll be easy to find on our website
00:01:35and YouTube and whatnot,
00:01:36where we'll do the interviews with Jose Ortiz and Daisy Phipps Polito.
00:01:41And believe me, they're very good.
00:01:43We've already recorded them and well worth watching.
00:01:46So we are going to cover this Kentucky Derby and all the stories from A to Z,
00:01:51and to give you everything you need to know about what a great race it is.
00:01:55So like I said, a little bit different format this week, but follow along,
00:02:00and I think you'll really enjoy everything we did.
00:02:02So I'll start with you, Zoe, because you are a fellow female, and you must have been thrilled with Sheree
00:02:10DeVoe.
00:02:10What a great story.
00:02:12And I know that a lot of times, and you probably yourself during this career wanted to say,
00:02:18I'm just a jockey.
00:02:19I don't want to be known as a female jockey.
00:02:21But for Sheree DeVoe, eight years into her career, to have risen to the level that she has,
00:02:27well, she's up there among the seven or eight best trainers in the country, no doubt about it,
00:02:32to win her first Kentucky Derby as a female with her first starter.
00:02:37That was the story of the Kentucky Derby, and damn, it was a terrific story.
00:02:41And I think a lot of people are looking for stories, and you're right.
00:02:46It was a terrific story.
00:02:48And just the story in and of itself with Sheree, you know, you'll hear from her a little bit later
00:02:53on.
00:02:53It took her almost a full year to win her first race.
00:02:56So she's been training eight years.
00:02:58She's really been winning races for seven.
00:03:01So she has come a long way in a short period of time.
00:03:04Her first Derby starter for the famed Phipps Stable with those cherry red silks.
00:03:10I mean, this is something that you make movies out of.
00:03:14It was just honestly absolutely fabulous.
00:03:17And the whole story with her and Daisy Phipps and then Monique Delk as well,
00:03:23who's the racing manager for St. Elias Stable, just really a great story.
00:03:27And that is something that we look forward to is the stories in racing
00:03:31and being able to tell those stories to the best of our ability.
00:03:34Yeah, it's not very often you get this kind of a storyline from owner, trainer, and jockey.
00:03:42Correct.
00:03:43I mean, you've got the, you know, the, the, the connections, the ownership connections you pointed out
00:03:48and Sheree becoming the first female trainer.
00:03:51And then you've got Jose beating Irad on the wire to get his very first Kentucky Derby win.
00:03:57I talked to Sheree, I think it was Wednesday morning.
00:04:01And she said, look, I, you know, I, I said, obviously Golden Tipo is going to have to take a
00:04:10step forward.
00:04:12And she said, I understand that.
00:04:13And she said, he will.
00:04:15So there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that he is going to take a fairly sizable step forward.
00:04:21She said he is training better than he ever has.
00:04:24He's more aggressive than he's ever been.
00:04:26He looks better than he ever has.
00:04:28There's no doubt in my mind he's going to run his absolute best race.
00:04:32Whether that's good enough to win, I don't know, but he will improve and improve sharply.
00:04:38And she was exactly right.
00:04:40So I don't want to take anything away from Golden Tempo, but Randy, I'll start with you on this one.
00:04:47So many Kentucky Derbys are determined by the pace.
00:04:51I know we've seen faster paces of this Kentucky Derby, but they went 22 and three, 46 and two.
00:04:57And Golden Tempo was last in the first call.
00:05:01And you know what?
00:05:01That's where he wanted to be.
00:05:03There was a pace meltdown.
00:05:05It affected a lot of horses in this race.
00:05:07And actually, you know, you could say logically, you don't want to be last in any horse race.
00:05:13But when they're going that fast, it is the place to be.
00:05:17Horses are up front, are just exhausted from that pace.
00:05:21He's getting a good trip from Jose Ortiz.
00:05:23How much did the pace play into his victory?
00:05:27I think there's no doubt that it was a major factor in his win.
00:05:32Yeah, I think it was a major factor.
00:05:34But I think, honestly, I think the Kentucky Derby pace was probably the average Kentucky Derby pace that you see
00:05:41in a year.
00:05:42I mean, typically, you do have a fast pace in the Kentucky Derby.
00:05:46I mean, this year, it probably seemed a little more dramatic because six speeds set the pace at 38 to
00:05:54one.
00:05:54So happy, not really bred for a mile and a quarter.
00:05:57It was right behind him.
00:05:59You know, then you had the Japanese horse, Denon Bourbon.
00:06:03You had Pavlovian at 50 to one.
00:06:05You had Wonder Dean at 27 to one.
00:06:08You had, you know, they were long shots mostly that were up front.
00:06:13And so they figured to back up, given a fairly solid pace.
00:06:18Golden Tempo was where people expected him to be, which was last.
00:06:24That's typically the way he runs.
00:06:26You know, Renegade, that wasn't a surprise that he kicked the way he did.
00:06:32Really, the only surprise, surprise, surprise to me was Ocelli.
00:06:37You know, I mean, when they turn for home, I'm like, all right, the Japanese horse is probably going to
00:06:41win.
00:06:41Look at this.
00:06:42And I think the Japanese still haven't quite figured out how to ride the Kentucky Derby when they do look
00:06:47out.
00:06:48He was much too close to the pace.
00:06:50And then all of a sudden, here comes the maiden as, oh, Ocelli's going to win.
00:06:54And then, oh, Renegade's going to win.
00:06:55No, Golden Tempo's going to win.
00:06:57It was just like one by one by one by one.
00:07:01But, yeah, the pace definitely had an impact.
00:07:04Yeah, it for sure did.
00:07:05A couple of things to mention.
00:07:07The pace, the top three finishes at the first call.
00:07:1218th, 15th, and 17th.
00:07:15After half a mile, 18th, 15th, and 16th.
00:07:19After three quarters of a mile, 18th, 16th, and 15th.
00:07:25At the head of the lane, after a mile, Golden Tempo is still 14th.
00:07:30A long, long way back.
00:07:32There goes the old adage.
00:07:34When they turn for home, the Derby winner is usually within four lengths of the lead.
00:07:38Well, that's out the window, isn't it?
00:07:40I mean, who'd have thunk it?
00:07:42And they didn't go any faster than they always go.
00:07:45Just a lot of them went quick together.
00:07:48So I think that's where it came from, just being able to sit that far back.
00:07:53Renegade got screwed at the draw.
00:07:55It seemed like so happy, and Mike Smith kind of caused a little bit of a domino effect coming down
00:08:02that just shifted everyone over just a little bit.
00:08:05And that's all you need.
00:08:06Just a slight tip of the domino.
00:08:07If you're in the one hole, you get crushed.
00:08:10So, you know, you'll hear from Jose Ortiz a little bit later on that he was surprised to see Renegade
00:08:16in front of him.
00:08:16And his brother, he's like, I'll just follow him.
00:08:18He's one of the best horses in the race.
00:08:20This is great.
00:08:21Thank you very much.
00:08:23So he just followed him.
00:08:24So, I mean, that was the pace meltdown that we had.
00:08:27And one other thing that I think is fantastic from a breeding perspective, Curlin.
00:08:33Curlin, you know, they released him for stud duty earlier on in his season because he was having a little
00:08:40bit of trouble.
00:08:40We don't know if he's going to come back next year into the breeding season.
00:08:43He picks up his first derby, his very first one.
00:08:47He was third in the derby many, many moons ago.
00:08:49So, in fact, it was a Curlin trifecta, the winner by Curlin, the second place finisher out of a Curlin
00:08:56Mayer, the third place finisher by Connect, who's by Curlin.
00:09:00So, Curlin finally got his day in the sun.
00:09:02And I thought that was one of the biggest takeaways for me.
00:09:05And Curlin probably should have won the Kentucky Derby, too.
00:09:08He got shuffled back a little bit in the first part of the race.
00:09:11So, yeah, that was nice.
00:09:13So, I don't mean to be the one reigning on Golden Tempo's parade.
00:09:19But you're going to.
00:09:20I'm going to because I don't think he was the best horse.
00:09:24And, you know, we had talked about this with Jerry Bailey on the show before.
00:09:30We talked a lot about the one post.
00:09:32And it was a major factor.
00:09:35There's no doubt about it.
00:09:36I mean, he got slaughtered at the start.
00:09:38He got bounced around something terrible.
00:09:42Irad had to really, you know, gather him up before he got his momentum.
00:09:47From that point on, Irad really rode a good race.
00:09:51He was able to get him back into the hunt.
00:09:53Now, the other thing, too, though, is because he saved ground and stayed on the rail, he had to swing
00:10:00very wide in the stretch.
00:10:03Did he get into miles and miles worth of trouble?
00:10:07No.
00:10:07But when you lose by a neck and you have that kind of trouble at the start, Zoe, I think
00:10:14it cost him the race.
00:10:16You could also say this.
00:10:18If he'd have broke sharp and with the rest of the field, would he have been too close to a
00:10:22hot pace?
00:10:23Perhaps.
00:10:23That's a good point.
00:10:24I mean, it could have saved him.
00:10:26It could have hurt him.
00:10:27I mean, there's no question it did hurt him.
00:10:30But he broke so well.
00:10:31He'd have been in that top flight.
00:10:33No one from that top flight finished in the top four, five, six.
00:10:38They just didn't.
00:10:39They were in the, like, bottom ten.
00:10:42It's a good point, Zoe.
00:10:42So, one little thing.
00:10:44I always get very interested in the odds in the Kentucky Derby.
00:10:47And, Randy, you guys, I felt sorry for you.
00:10:50You were trying to explain the odds.
00:10:51And so-and-so's five to one.
00:10:54And then all of a sudden, wait a minute.
00:10:56That horse is now six to one.
00:10:57And they changed it.
00:10:58And the other one is five to one.
00:11:00So, it finally, further ado, was 5.05 to go off of the favorite.
00:11:05Renegade was second to 5.65.
00:11:07But to me, the crazy betting was, and Zoe might disagree because I know she loves the West Coast horses.
00:11:15But why on earth was so happy 5.90 to one?
00:11:20And I'm going to give you guys a theory, and you're going to think I'm nuts.
00:11:24I think it had a lot to do with his name.
00:11:27Yeah, for sure.
00:11:28And this is a race where, remember, probably, I mean, they don't bet big money, but probably 50, 60, 70
00:11:36% of the people that bet on the Kentucky Derby bet on one race a year.
00:11:40And, you know, they, golden tempo, that doesn't mean anything, but so happy.
00:11:46Can you get a more cool name?
00:11:48Everybody wants to be so happy.
00:11:50I think it was the $2 bettors that fell in love with the name and maybe a little bit fell
00:11:54in love if they even knew the story of Mike Smith and Mark Gladden and his wife passing away.
00:12:00He's a good horse.
00:12:00He should not have been five to one.
00:12:02He should have been about 12 to one.
00:12:03So, that's my take on that.
00:12:05And my theory, people were playing names.
00:12:09So, you're saying that Pavlovian and Robusta and Intrepidant doesn't have the same ring as so happy.
00:12:17Yeah, exactly.
00:12:19Exactly.
00:12:19All right.
00:12:20Well, I don't, you know, I, you know, I can't really disagree with that because, I mean, how many people,
00:12:28how many of the $2 bettors knew the story of Mark Gladden and his wife and fell in love with
00:12:34that particular storyline?
00:12:35Probably not all that many.
00:12:38Within the industry, yeah.
00:12:40So, I mean, what other reason would there be?
00:12:42I think he had a pretty healthy sheets pattern as well, numbers-wise.
00:12:48Was it a big play?
00:12:49I didn't look at him.
00:12:50Yeah, he had a very good progressive numbers-wise.
00:12:54He was supposed to take a big jump forward.
00:12:56And he was too close.
00:12:57Simple.
00:12:58But it was hard to keep up with, the odds, because I remember saying something to Mike Tirico, Commandment was
00:13:04the favorite, and then just one flash later, he was the fourth choice.
00:13:08Right.
00:13:08Yeah.
00:13:09Yeah.
00:13:10I felt sorry for you guys.
00:13:12You're trying to keep up with this, and it's changing literally every 10 seconds.
00:13:16Yeah, it's part of the storyline of the race, right?
00:13:18The public was having trouble figuring it out.
00:13:20Oh, one other storyline that I'm glad that we can put to bed.
00:13:24And three-quarter shoe on Renegade didn't seem to dissuade him whatsoever, and then cracked heels on Golden Tempo.
00:13:32Where's your Xacta?
00:13:33Your all-foot Xacta.
00:13:35Exactly.
00:13:36I thought that was great.
00:13:38All right.
00:13:38So, that's a wrap-up of segment one.
00:13:40We're going to get to our Gainsway Guest of the Week here, Cherie DeVoe, in just a second.
00:13:45We've got to hear some messages from Keeneland.
00:13:48We'll also find out who the fastest horse of the week was from Randy Moss.
00:13:52And when we come back, we will get into more things related to the Kentucky Derby.
00:13:58So, stay with us here on the TDN Writer's Room podcast.
00:14:02Doren, to remind you that the TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by Keeneland.
00:14:05Now, Keeneland sales graduates kicked off a banner weekend with the winner of the Grade 1 Kentucky Oaks,
00:14:12always a runner, being a 2024 Keeneland September graduate.
00:14:16Let's go through some of the other ones, shall we?
00:14:18On Derby weekend, Keeneland grads also enjoyed the following graded stakes success.
00:14:24Classic Q won the Distaff Turf Mile.
00:14:27Deterministic took Aqueducts for Marcy.
00:14:30Yellow Card won the Churchill Downs Turf Sprint.
00:14:33He was very good in there.
00:14:34Imagination, the lady, was the victor in the Edgewood Stakes.
00:14:38Catherine Marissa won the Modesty.
00:14:40Corporate Power took down the Ali Sheba.
00:14:43Shall I go on?
00:14:44One more.
00:14:44An on-time girl won the Eight Bells.
00:14:47What a great weekend for Keeneland graduates.
00:14:50We'll be right back after this message from Keeneland.
00:14:54We do this so your granddaughter can work on a farm someday.
00:14:59So the stands will still be packed in 50 years.
00:15:04That's why we come to work every day.
00:15:06Obsess over every single detail.
00:15:11Because the story of racing is written one moment at a time.
00:15:16And the future of our industry deserves nothing less.
00:15:21Keeneland.
00:15:22Every moment matters.
00:15:24The fastest horse of the week brought to you by the Fast Sires at Windstar Farm.
00:15:30Life is good.
00:15:30It was obviously very fast.
00:15:32And now he's also off to a fast start at Stud.
00:15:36Over the weekend, True Blessing became the second two-year-old winner for Life is Good.
00:15:40And Wagley, who was his first winner a couple of weeks back at Keeneland, became his first stakes winner.
00:15:47Life is good is now the only first crop sire in the U.S. to have a black-type winner.
00:15:53Life is good is into Mischief's fastest son.
00:15:56And he stands at Windstar for a fee of $60,000.
00:16:00The fastest horse of the week might be a nice trivia question.
00:16:04I'm not sure many people would come up with his answer, but it happens to be T.O. Elvis,
00:16:09the Japanese phenom that ran away with the Churchill Downstakes on the Kentucky Derby undercard Saturday
00:16:16with a buyer's speed figure of 108.
00:16:19All you had to do was watch the video in Japan, and you knew that in his recent races,
00:16:25T.O. Elvis showed a remarkable closing kick.
00:16:28But how would you know that he would be fast enough to beat Knightsbridge and Cornucopian and Imagination and Disruptor?
00:16:36Well, he not only beat them, he blew their doors off in the Churchill Downstakes,
00:16:41our fastest horse of the week straight from Japan.
00:16:44T.O. Elvis.
00:16:46And I'm not going to say Elvis is in the building.
00:16:48That's low-hanging fruit, and I've already said that.
00:16:54And who else would be our Gainsway Guest of the Week?
00:16:56No suspense here is, of course, Cherie DeVoe,
00:16:59the winning trainer of the Kentucky Derby with Golden Tempo,
00:17:02and, of course, the first female ever to win the race.
00:17:05Cherie, I know you've had a very busy week.
00:17:07I've been appearing all over the television dial
00:17:10and saying lots of nice things about horse racing.
00:17:12Good for you.
00:17:13How are you doing, and are you still on cloud nine,
00:17:16or are you just in a state of just exhaustion right now?
00:17:19Well, to be honest, none of this, the enormity of it has not sunk in.
00:17:27It's been a whirlwind.
00:17:29Wasn't really expecting to be whisked off to New York City
00:17:32and go all over different studios
00:17:35and get to be a representative for industry.
00:17:37It's been fun, but I'm averaging about four hours of sleep a night.
00:17:42So I am looking forward to regular bedtime
00:17:45and getting some semblance of normalcy.
00:17:49It's not going to be normal, and I have to acknowledge
00:17:50that something happened, and my life is going to be changed forever.
00:17:56And Cherie, I've been covering racing for a long time,
00:17:59and I've talked to a lot of females who recorded first,
00:18:03and Julie Krohn comes to mind.
00:18:04Linda Rice has done some fabulous things.
00:18:07Rosie Naprovnik has had some great accomplishments.
00:18:09A lot of them kind of have downplayed the whole woman angle.
00:18:14But I really, from watching you, unlike Randy, I wasn't at the Derby,
00:18:19but watching all the coverage and watching you on these morning shows and whatnot,
00:18:23I think you are relishing that,
00:18:26and you think that it is, in fact, something special,
00:18:28that you broke through a great barrier here to become the first female trainer.
00:18:32Could you comment on that, please?
00:18:33Well, I don't make my gender as being a female trainer my whole identity,
00:18:38but I do acknowledge that being a female in the racehorsing world
00:18:45is a big deal when, you know, big things happen.
00:18:49You know, I'm a person that just has always done my own thing.
00:18:52You guys have known me for quite some time.
00:18:54So if I can just be myself and be true to myself and that inspires others,
00:19:00then why not take advantage of that platform for others, you know, not just, you know, myself.
00:19:08You had some very nice things to say to Donna Brothers in the walkover
00:19:13about how much she's inspired you since you were little.
00:19:18So what do you think about young people right now that may be young girls
00:19:23that may now see you win the Kentucky Derby and you may become their role model?
00:19:28How do you feel about that?
00:19:32It's an honor.
00:19:33It really is.
00:19:35To be able to do something so profound that puts me in that light,
00:19:39especially for others that might not be the everyday racing person, you know.
00:19:46Social media, I can't, I still haven't caught up with all of my messages,
00:19:50especially my social media inboxes, but I have seen a lot of videos of just people
00:19:56that have watched it and have been touched and it's so meaningful and it is touching.
00:20:01You know, if it's not, then I need to go get my heart checked to see if it's blackened
00:20:06or if it's still beating.
00:20:11Well, Cherie, congratulations.
00:20:14I thought the lead up to it and the aftermath was absolutely terrific.
00:20:19And you're quite right.
00:20:20Much like myself and other women jockeys in the past,
00:20:24we wanted to be known as jockeys and not women jockeys.
00:20:27You want to be known as a horse trainer and not a female trainer.
00:20:30But leading up to the race, we saw a fabulous bit on ABR.
00:20:35You just look so relaxed.
00:20:37You've been in a lot of high profile races.
00:20:40Do you think it helps you knowing that you had like a 25 to one shot?
00:20:45Or did you have an inkling in the back of your mind
00:20:47that he could be something really great?
00:20:50It's your first derby starter and you win with your first starter.
00:20:55Take me through the lead up to it and how you were feeling
00:20:58watching him actually cross the line in front.
00:21:01Well, I was very confident in Golden Tempo.
00:21:04He has trained so well throughout the winter,
00:21:10but especially we freshened him a little bit,
00:21:12just gave him a little bit more time.
00:21:14And physically, he looks fantastic.
00:21:18He's kind of always a little bit on the heavier side.
00:21:20He really started to trim up.
00:21:22And then the week of the derby, he was like,
00:21:27from being a horse that kind of is like quiet as a church mouse to train
00:21:30and goes through the paces, we're coming off the track
00:21:33and he's nickering at the pony trying to audition for his hopeful next career.
00:21:39So it gives you a lot of confidence.
00:21:41I had a lot of confidence.
00:21:42Now, with his running style,
00:21:44everything basically has to fall into place for him to get there
00:21:48in a field of 18 horses, 17 in front of him.
00:21:55But it wouldn't have crossed my mind.
00:21:59I didn't put pressure because the derby is the derby.
00:22:01And you have to go there with an open mind and not, it wasn't the odds.
00:22:06It was just that, hey, it's my first derby.
00:22:08We're going to go here.
00:22:09We're going to have fun.
00:22:10And, you know, it's a stressful week.
00:22:12So I just made the conscious decision to say, like,
00:22:16we're just going to have fun.
00:22:17And I had my sister there.
00:22:18I had my best friend, Elise, there.
00:22:21And Reagan was there and Olivia, who works with me.
00:22:23So there's no sense in getting nervous.
00:22:25It's not going to change the outcome of the race.
00:22:27So why not just take, you know, play some music, sing along?
00:22:30You know, as long as we're not disturbing Golden Tempo.
00:22:33And he could not have cared less, except the singing was atrocious.
00:22:36But, you know, why not just enjoy it?
00:22:42I'm guessing you were probably thinking, okay, it's my first derby.
00:22:45I'm going to enjoy it.
00:22:47You know, the odds are we're not going to win.
00:22:49But if we do win, we'll celebrate in the winner's circle.
00:22:52And then go out and have a nice dinner or whatever.
00:22:54Were you at all prepared for the aftermath?
00:22:57No.
00:22:58I wasn't even prepared for the stretch run.
00:23:00And I just remember as he's – I was standing all week.
00:23:05I'd been standing in the winner's circle.
00:23:07And the horses have all been running so well.
00:23:10Thursday, Friday, Saturday, everybody – we didn't have a horse that did not show up for us, which is fantastic.
00:23:15It's amazing.
00:23:16And it's credit to the team, but most credit to the horses.
00:23:19So I'm like, I'm just going to stand here.
00:23:21But you really can't see that much.
00:23:23And you especially can't see all the way up the stretch.
00:23:25So I see him coming, and I clocked him right when they came out of the turn, and I saw
00:23:30him making a run.
00:23:31And when he passed me in the winner's circle, he was just coming up to renegade.
00:23:35And it's like a dream.
00:23:37I can't even – I can't believe that he got there.
00:23:39And, like, I collapsed thinking, like, holy S-H word.
00:23:43I don't want to get anyone in trouble.
00:23:44That just happened.
00:23:45And I was really proud of myself in that moment that I did not let one F-bomb out.
00:23:52That's when you know I was stunned.
00:23:54There was no curse words.
00:23:55There was no beeping on anything.
00:23:58That's pretty amazing.
00:23:59In all this talk about you being a female trainer, I think one other factor has been lost.
00:24:04And you've been doing this for eight years.
00:24:07You're a baby in this business.
00:24:10And how does somebody who – you know, there's obviously people that took 25, 30 years and some great trainers
00:24:18to either win their first derby or have never won a Kentucky Derby.
00:24:22How did you come so far so fast?
00:24:24And I imagine – I don't know if you're going to win more derbies, but I can guarantee you you're
00:24:29going to be in this race for many, many years to come with many, many more starters.
00:24:33So, with what you've done with your career, how did you make this all happen so fast?
00:24:39Well, I don't think it's fair to say how did I make it happen.
00:24:42It happened.
00:24:44You know, in the beginning, we were just – perseverance paid off.
00:24:48You know, like, can we – the first year was – we almost won a full year without winning a
00:24:54race.
00:24:54So, it was almost seven years of training of winning races before we got here.
00:25:01But, you know, I have made a conscious effort and thought in the beginning of my career that my core
00:25:09principle is going to always be to put the horse first, and I'm going to surround myself with clients, with
00:25:15a team, you know, with the whole support team with that in mind.
00:25:19And I think that to do this and to be successful, the horses have to be the priority and the
00:25:26care of each individual horse.
00:25:30But you have to have the clients behind you, and I'm so grateful for, you know, we have the St.
00:25:36Elias, the Violas, and the Phipps.
00:25:38But every other client that's supported me in this journey, I'm just so thankful for.
00:25:44So, now you've been doing God knows how many interviews and podcasts and TV hits and all this stuff.
00:25:50And, look, I'm in the TV business.
00:25:53I was in front of, what, 20 million people doing the Kentucky Derby telecast.
00:25:58Cherie, if I was sitting on that Today Show couch, I probably would have been as scared as SH.
00:26:04Right?
00:26:06You handled it so well.
00:26:08What was that like?
00:26:11Honestly, it was a lot easier than I thought, but I think it's just the delirium that has been my
00:26:18state of mind for the last couple days.
00:26:20But I've always, I just don't think about it, but I'm so amped up about the race that being nervous
00:26:27about going on a TV show, like, I get to talk about something that was really awesome that not a
00:26:31lot of people have done.
00:26:32And so, but to be fair, every podcast, every interview I've done, the hosts are, like, fantastic.
00:26:41They're so down to earth.
00:26:43They're so, it's, they're not intimidating.
00:26:44And I'm not intimidated easily, but I will say, Al Roker asked for my picture, and I was like, are
00:26:51you kidding me?
00:26:52Yes.
00:26:55My picture?
00:26:59Grease the door jams to get me out of here.
00:27:03So, so talk about the dynamic on, you know, the Viola St. Aaliyah Stable and the FIPS Stable, because you've
00:27:13been around a long time.
00:27:15You've been watching races for a long time.
00:27:17What does it feel to you to be connected to such history, especially with those red and black colors, being
00:27:23your first derby winner and your first starter?
00:27:26I mean, that's got to, that has to send the mind churning, doesn't it?
00:27:29It most definitely does.
00:27:32Of course, I'm going to forget this horse, but I, I, I apologize.
00:27:36Daisy had sent me the FIPS family.
00:27:39She represents the FIPS family and Monique Delk represents St. Aaliyah.
00:27:43So just for the sake of this conversation, so I don't want anyone to get upset.
00:27:46But so Daisy had sent me a filly and she was a bit of a project and I, she got
00:27:51loose behind the gate at Gulfstream.
00:27:54And, um, she, you know, eventually we just, she, we, she went out to be a broodmare instead of running.
00:28:00And Daisy says, I promise you next year, I have better ones coming.
00:28:04And, um, golden tempo when he came in, there wasn't a lot of fanfare.
00:28:08Um, Barry Eisman is going to get tired of me saying that, um, the, the one horse that won the
00:28:14derby was not, was the horse that he said, well, he's not going to get you excited when he breezes.
00:28:19But, um, you know, he, he's a horse and he actually is a very good workhorse now.
00:28:23So it was kind of funny, but he just took some time, but it's an honor.
00:28:26Um, I remember when, when the first horse came in and I was getting the silks, you know, I didn't
00:28:32have my own set of silks at the time.
00:28:34So I was borrowing the silks and I just thought how amazing of an honor is this, um, because there's
00:28:39not a lot of trainers that are in this position and, uh, it will not be lost upon me, uh,
00:28:45the magnitude of that.
00:28:47Just so you, I mean, you probably already know this.
00:28:49You talk about a full circle moment, the Phipps stable traces all the way back more than a hundred years
00:28:56ago to the Wheatley stable.
00:28:59Okay.
00:29:00Of Gladys Mills Phipps, a female.
00:29:05So it's sort of bookends now, right?
00:29:08Yep.
00:29:09Yeah.
00:29:09Daisy's obviously Daisy Phipps Polito is, uh, is helping run the, uh, the family, the family stable.
00:29:17And, uh, it's, it's, it's really a historic moment.
00:29:20It is.
00:29:21I just wanted to say that I'm, uh, um, Mrs. Phipps, Daisy's mom, uh, mother, she's sick.
00:29:28She has pancreatic cancer.
00:29:30And we all know that in those moments, anything you can do to rally around a person to make them
00:29:35excited about something and take their mind off of what, what they're going through in the day to day.
00:29:41It really, it's a privilege to be able to give the family some, something positive to talk about and, um,
00:29:48just to make their days a little bit lighter instead of so heavy.
00:29:51Wow.
00:29:53Sheree, I know we're not going to pin you down today on Tuesday.
00:29:56Well, we're recording this about your decision on the Preakness.
00:29:58You've told everybody you want to wait at least till this weekend, but of the 5,000 interviews you've done,
00:30:04I did hear one.
00:30:05And where I, I was impressed by your feelings about the importance of the triple crown and the tradition.
00:30:13And to me, that's kind of been lost among a lot of trainers, unfortunately.
00:30:17And, and I think that's one of the, you know, things that is upsetting about that racing that maybe the
00:30:23triple crown does not resonate the way it used to, but whether you run a golden temple in the Preakness
00:30:29or not, clearly you, you, you believe the triple crown is something very special.
00:30:33And your respect level for it from, again, from what I gather is very high.
00:30:38Well, it is.
00:30:39And winning the triple crown is not supposed to be easy.
00:30:41It's supposed to be hard.
00:30:43Um, you have to have a horse that can, can run these races back to back to back.
00:30:48And, um, it, you know, we went through a drought for so long where we didn't think it could happen.
00:30:54And then it happened twice.
00:30:55So it's, it, it can be done.
00:30:58Um, you know, I don't know the horses that have tried it.
00:31:02I, I, you know, I commend Bob, um, for, with justify an American Pharaoh for knowing his horses and know,
00:31:09you know, that he, they could handle that campaign.
00:31:13Um, but every horse is different.
00:31:15Um, you know, not every horse is gonna be able to handle that racing.
00:31:18And, you know, like golden tempo, the conversation we're going to have to have is it's, it's a 16th of
00:31:23a mile less.
00:31:24It's two weeks after he just put in his career top.
00:31:28Um, so, you know, we're going to have to see how he is and that might not be ultimately golden
00:31:33tempo is going to decide, but, you know, there's going to be a lot of conversation between now and then,
00:31:39um, in the next couple of days.
00:31:41And, um, you know, just discussing, you know, the pros and cons and, you know, if we want to try
00:31:47the, the preakness or do we want to go to something we, we just want at a mile and a
00:31:51quarter.
00:31:52And I actually was thinking even before the Derby, I kind of wish that the Belmont was a mile and
00:31:57a half because I would love to see him going that distance as well.
00:32:00Um, and just kind of see where he fits in, in that spectrum of distances and racing.
00:32:07Very cool.
00:32:08I got one question for you and it's about him.
00:32:10Cause I saw him training at Churchill and I was like, my God, he's massive.
00:32:14He's just this big hulking son of Curlin.
00:32:18Do you weigh him?
00:32:19What does he weigh?
00:32:20I have not, I don't have a scale around me.
00:32:24Um, but believe it or not, he was a lot bigger.
00:32:27And I remember the first time he ran and I just, I made the comment.
00:32:31I said, geez, you are a big chunky boy.
00:32:33Um, and then it kind of trimmed down, trimmed down, but we, we really pressed on him.
00:32:39Um, he had an easy work and then he had two really tough works, uh, you know, stamina building works,
00:32:45um, where it had the half miles recorded.
00:32:48But, um, we saw the one with Jose where he kept galloping out a double gallop out.
00:32:52And I asked him to go five eights from the half mile pole with a double gallop out.
00:32:57And, um, and he responded well and he tucked up and he kind of, everything else fell into place where
00:33:02he just started to really feel his oats.
00:33:04Um, I mean, and he couldn't look any better.
00:33:06His dappled from head to toe, his coat looks great and he's happy.
00:33:10He was eating everything, you know, all those markers that we look at, he was hitting.
00:33:14The thought that he broke his maiden at six furlongs in December is just unbelievable.
00:33:19It definitely is.
00:33:21But the, and I'm, would like to get in his head as to why he wants to be a deep
00:33:25closer, because he does have speed.
00:33:27He shows it in the morning.
00:33:29Um, but it's almost like, okay, I'll let you guys do the heavy lifting.
00:33:32And then I'm just going to come and cruise around here.
00:33:33Cause he's got a, he's got a nice cruising speed and then he can really finish strong and has a
00:33:39nice turn of foot.
00:33:40Sheree, you've developed this relationship with Jose Ortiz.
00:33:43And it looks like the combination, uh, of the two of you has, has just been magical.
00:33:49And, uh, you know, what a weekend he had, of course, winning the Kentucky Oaks as well.
00:33:54But, but what has he meant to your success?
00:33:56I mean, he's pretty much become your stable jockey.
00:33:59And, you know, I, I, I think it's fair to say that when the two of you teamed up, that
00:34:04has been something that has moved your career even more forward.
00:34:08So what, what is it about Jose and Sheree DeVoe that they make such a winning combination?
00:34:13Jose is, he is invested in our, our stable.
00:34:18Um, he comes out.
00:34:20If I ask him at the last minute to come and work a horse, he does.
00:34:23Um, we had a day when something happened in new Orleans and, um, I needed an extra rider.
00:34:31And he came in on his day off and was galloping horses, like just to help, help the helper team.
00:34:36Um, you know, so he, he, he has a vested interest.
00:34:40And I think I commend Jose because he's a unique rider.
00:34:44He can ride horses with all different styles.
00:34:46He's not just a speed rider, you know, come from behind or a turf rider, you know?
00:34:51So sometimes they, riders get pegged and it's probably just who they ride for, but he rides all kinds of
00:34:57horses.
00:34:57You know, he, he fits the horses, he works with the horses and gives positive feedback.
00:35:03And, and he really is part of our team.
00:35:06And when he came to Kentucky, I was lacking of a rider that, that could do that.
00:35:12That was, um, you know, he, he could ride different types of horses and, um, and ride for me full
00:35:22time.
00:35:22You know, it was hard because other jockeys, they, they work, they ride for a lot of different trainers.
00:35:27And, um, you know, so you don't get that consistency.
00:35:30And I think the consistency for golden tempo and, you know, we'll say like a more than looks that, that
00:35:36really is key on a horse that's developing and moving forward.
00:35:39That's just not here right now.
00:35:42Well, Sheree, if you think it's been a busy week after the Preakness, excuse me, after the Derby, if you
00:35:47win the Preakness, you haven't seen anything yet, by the way.
00:35:51So buckle down.
00:35:53Um, I, you know, again, I know you'll make the right decision, but of course, uh, the racing world would
00:35:59love nothing more to see you take a crack at the triple crown.
00:36:01And, uh, and then come into, uh, uh, perhaps come into Belmont Park, excuse me, Saratoga, of course, real chance
00:36:09of making some serious, serious history.
00:36:11Once again, um, I know for, cause I've been watching every, all the minutes of your day that you've given
00:36:18away to the media.
00:36:19So we so much appreciate you giving us a good 20 minutes of your time on this Tuesday afternoon.
00:36:25Congratulations again on an historic win in the Kentucky Derby.
00:36:29Keep up the good work and thanks for being our Gainesway guest of the week.
00:36:32Thank you for having me on.
00:36:34Guest of the week, Sheree DeVoe came to you courtesy of Gainesway, home to the stallion Muth.
00:36:40And today we're giving you a look at some of the first foals by Muth now arriving across the bluegrass.
00:36:47They were a good looking bunch, but don't just take our word for it.
00:36:50Here's some quotes from some of the experts, such as Gainesway's Brian Graves, who says,
00:36:55we have seen a large quantity of highly rated physical spread over a large range of farms.
00:37:01This horse is stamping his foals.
00:37:04How about Patrick Masson of Green Lantern Stables, who says, quote,
00:37:09to say our Muth foal out of Bellamaker is awesome is an understatement.
00:37:14And Joe Reeves calls them gorgeous, athletic, and classy.
00:37:19Muth, a grade one winner as a two-year-old and three-year-old, stands at Gainesway for a fee
00:37:24of $30,000.
00:37:26Say hello to Muth!
00:37:29The single most important factor in predicting sire success is those who have consistent high-class form,
00:37:37and it's even enhanced if they have that form as two-year-olds as well.
00:37:41By our calculations, Muth has the number one chance of sire success of any of the 30 or so sires
00:37:47that retired to Kentucky in 2025.
00:37:50He has the credentials that we're looking for when we predict sire success.
00:37:57Well, I watched the Kentucky Derby from my couch and enjoyed the coverage from Randy Moss, Jerry Bailey, and that
00:38:02whole team, Nick Block.
00:38:03And Randy, I tell you guys, you guys do an absolute excellent job, and I'm going to say that every
00:38:08time.
00:38:08It's not because you're on a podcast.
00:38:09You guys are just terrific how you cover this race, and it's a joy to watch you.
00:38:15But Randy and Zoe, you were the ones who were there.
00:38:18What was the vibe like?
00:38:19Mike, what were some of your takeaways from the day?
00:38:22Go ahead, Zoe.
00:38:23I thought it was great.
00:38:24I mean, the whole lead-up to it, any news station you put on, was the weather.
00:38:29It was supposed to be the coldest derby day in 30 years or something.
00:38:33I was wearing a dress.
00:38:34I had long johns on under my dress and leggings, all prepared for it.
00:38:39But it was a great day.
00:38:42I didn't go on Oaks Day, Oaks Night.
00:38:45I know that cleared out pretty quickly.
00:38:47We'll get to the big generation in Handel after that and see if that's a good move going forward.
00:38:54But Oaks Day, for me, was fantastic.
00:38:57Obviously, we went with Potente and did the walkover, and it didn't rain, and it was a lot of fun.
00:39:02There was a great vibe.
00:39:03It was a very safe few days of racing.
00:39:06A lot was made of a lot of regulatory vet scratches, good, bad, or indifferent.
00:39:11Nobody wants to see that happen on one of the biggest days in racing in the sport.
00:39:17So nothing happened.
00:39:19Kudos to everybody for making it a good, safe few days of racing.
00:39:23I had a lot of fun.
00:39:25I really did.
00:39:26So I wasn't in the walkover.
00:39:27I wasn't in the paddock.
00:39:28I wasn't on Millionaire's Row.
00:39:30I was chained to a desk, to an NBC desk, pretty much all day long.
00:39:36I can give you a little bit of behind-the-scenes stuff on NBC.
00:39:41Now, it was a year ago that Mike Tirico had a peanut allergy and was a scratch after the first
00:39:49couple of segments of the Kentucky Derby.
00:39:51And everything had to be shuffled, and Ahmed Fareed had to come up, and I took a brief turn as
00:39:58the host.
00:39:59And anyway, so Saturday, now with that in the rearview mirror, we think everything's okay.
00:40:06Jerry Bailey and I always ride in the car together all the time.
00:40:09We sit next to each other.
00:40:10We're like one in 1A.
00:40:11So we get in the car at 6.30 in the morning, leave the hotel.
00:40:14We're on the way to the racetrack.
00:40:15And Jerry says, by the way, I might have to pull over and throw up.
00:40:19And I said, okay, all right, what's going on?
00:40:25And he said, I've got a kidney stone.
00:40:28And he had been plagued by those as a jockey because, I guess, of dehydration, of having to dehydrate himself
00:40:37so often to make weight.
00:40:38Apparently, that can cause kidney stones.
00:40:41And he had had quite a few pretty severe kidney stones as a jockey.
00:40:45Well, he got to the track and wasn't feeling any better.
00:40:49Went to the jocks room to get in the whirlpool, which sometimes helps.
00:40:52Came back, was even worse.
00:40:54Had to go to the hospital.
00:40:56So we did from basically from noon until I want to say maybe 3 o'clock, 3.30, Jerry was
00:41:07in the hospital being treated.
00:41:09Wow.
00:41:10And it was just me and Ahmed and then me and Mike Tirico.
00:41:14But the tough guy that Jerry is, I mean, he got some meds, which didn't seem to affect him.
00:41:21And we had completely scratched him.
00:41:25And then the next thing you know, there he is.
00:41:28There's Jerry.
00:41:29And he did a great job.
00:41:31But, yeah, so things like that going on behind the scenes were pretty interesting.
00:41:37Well, that's a good story.
00:41:39You're not going to get anywhere else.
00:41:40And as we mentioned, once again, the NBC Churchill team just makes this a bigger and better event every single
00:41:50year.
00:41:50I don't know how they do it.
00:41:51It never peaks.
00:41:51And there were 19.6 million viewers broke the record.
00:41:55Most of the most watched Kentucky Derby ever up by 2 million.
00:42:01And, again, it's just, you know, a lot of things in horse racing aren't going right.
00:42:06But nothing is going more right than the Kentucky Derby that just gets bigger and better every year.
00:42:13And, of course, Randy now is going to put on his NBC Sports hat.
00:42:17Just worth noting.
00:42:18But let's get to another story during the week.
00:42:21And it's been a story in Kentucky that has been ongoing well before the Kentucky Derby, especially at Keeneland, where
00:42:28they had just a slew of vet scratches.
00:42:31So there were five scratches of horses during the Kentucky Derby.
00:42:37Two of them had nothing to do with the vets.
00:42:41The Mark Cassie horse was scratched and also full effort was scratched by their trainers earlier in the week.
00:42:47But there were three vet scratches.
00:42:49One of them, Great White, was the one who flipped before the start.
00:42:54It was a no-brainer.
00:42:55I mean, I think there's probably set rules that if a horse does that, the horse has to be scratched.
00:43:02But there were two others that raised controversy.
00:43:07And it seems we can't get through a derby.
00:43:10So they, you know, for Mike Rapoli, actually, they didn't scratch his horse.
00:43:14How about that, Mike?
00:43:14And finally, he finally got one into the gate.
00:43:17But the first one was the Kenny McPeak horse, Right to Party.
00:43:22And he pitched a fit.
00:43:25He was on social media.
00:43:26This isn't right.
00:43:26The horse is fine, et cetera.
00:43:28And the second one was the Puma.
00:43:30And kind of, I'm not going to try to say this as politely as I can, but the story we
00:43:40got from the Delgado camp was that insinuated that they scratched the horse because they found a swelling in the
00:43:47leg due to a skin infection.
00:43:50However, the horse was listed on the official echobase scratches as a veterinary scratch.
00:43:55So there were at least two veterinary scratches that, you know, let's forget, again, but Great White, even though the
00:44:03trainer said he's fine, he's going to run on the precus.
00:44:07But this is such a tough subject, Randy.
00:44:11You know, you, and I can't venture an opinion on this because I don't know the first thing about this.
00:44:18I can't look under the hood and know the first thing about whether a horse should run or not.
00:44:24I heard rumors, as I'm supposed to say a lot of you did, that Right to Party was not doing
00:44:28particularly well during the race.
00:44:29But, Randy, have they gone too far?
00:44:32Or are they doing a good job protecting these horses and keeping horses off the racetrack that might endanger themselves?
00:44:39It's the $64,000 question.
00:44:43And it's something that is, especially in Kentucky, where they seem much more willing to scratch horses than they do
00:44:50in virtually any other state.
00:44:52And horsemen are not happy about it.
00:44:54Your opinion.
00:44:55All right.
00:44:55Well, I mean, I've got a lot of opinions here.
00:44:57First of all, the last thing you said, you can look at the statistics for veterinary scratches.
00:45:01And going back five, six years ago, you had the other states way up here and Kentucky way down here.
00:45:09And now Kentucky is steadily risen to just catch up with the rest of the states.
00:45:14And horses are no more likely to be scratched in the state of Kentucky than they are in New York
00:45:19or California or Florida or anyplace else.
00:45:22They've just caught up now to the others.
00:45:26We didn't see a death in the Kentucky Derby or the Kentucky Oaks or the Breeders' Cup last year.
00:45:31You look at the statistics and horse deaths are down markedly, and I don't think that's an accident.
00:45:38I agree with everything that you say.
00:45:40And, you know, there are a few people moaning about it.
00:45:44I'm like, listen, it's the biggest race in the world.
00:45:47Would you rather have a horse scratch in the morning or would you rather see one break down in the
00:45:51afternoon?
00:45:52And you're right.
00:45:53Like, there's going to be wrong scratches.
00:45:55There's going to be right scratches.
00:45:57We don't know.
00:45:58I heard a couple of trainers.
00:46:00I'm not mentioning any names talking about.
00:46:01I'm going to go to New York.
00:46:03This is too hard here.
00:46:04Really?
00:46:05You're going to go to New York because you think it's going to be easier to get by the vets
00:46:08there?
00:46:10But I'm not going to argue with any scratch horse whether it should run or it shouldn't run.
00:46:15The fact that we had no breakdowns over the course of the two biggest days in the sport was a
00:46:20very good thing in my mind.
00:46:22Those were some interesting insights and very well said from my two colleagues.
00:46:27So it's a little bit too early to know specifically who's going to run in the Preakness.
00:46:32Sherry DeVoe, as expected, this is being recorded on Tuesday.
00:46:36And she didn't have an answer for us about whether or not Golden Tempo would run.
00:46:39He probably won't have an answer until this weekend.
00:46:44I don't think he's going to run.
00:46:46You know, I just because I don't think that's what trainers do anymore.
00:46:50I don't think they believe in running back in the Preakness.
00:46:53And, you know, what's going to happen if Golden Tempo doesn't run?
00:46:58Crude Velocity, who won the Pat Day Mile.
00:47:01Bob Baffert says he's 50-50.
00:47:03He would be – I think he'd be the favorite in the Preakness, even if Golden Tempo did run.
00:47:09But he's 50-50.
00:47:10Randy, if we – we have the potential here of getting – how do I put this?
00:47:15But a really lousy Preakness.
00:47:17I mean, let's hope Golden Tempo runs and saves the day.
00:47:21And then maybe if Crude Velocity runs, it'll be a very interesting Preakness.
00:47:24But if we get a Preakness with zero Derby starters, and Dave Groening from the Racing Forum, who does as
00:47:31good a job as anybody reporting on this business, has said that Golden Tempo is the only Derby starter whose
00:47:39connections are giving any consideration to the Kentucky Derby.
00:47:43So if the race at Laurel is a real crap race, is that going to be what finally gets this
00:47:53thing solved, what you and I have been screaming about for the last couple of years, that you cannot run
00:48:00these races three weeks, five weeks apart?
00:48:03And also, I think the – we don't know what the immediate rights holders are going to do, who's going
00:48:11to get the rights to the Preakness.
00:48:13That could play a role to it.
00:48:15But in some respects, could people be so embarrassed by this race – and I hope I'm wrong.
00:48:21I hope it's a great Preakness – that they'll finally say, we've got to do something about this.
00:48:27If zero horses from the Kentucky Derby run back in the Preakness, does that surprise anybody?
00:48:32No, but that's the point.
00:48:33It shouldn't.
00:48:34It shouldn't, I know.
00:48:35Yes, but that's terrible.
00:48:36Absolutely terrible.
00:48:38Exactly.
00:48:38Exactly.
00:48:39The Triple Crown's broken.
00:48:42It is.
00:48:44And this is not breaking news.
00:48:48It's been like this.
00:48:50And it's getting worse.
00:48:53Bill Mott just recently commented about Chief Wallaby when asked if Chief Wallaby might be a contender for the Preakness.
00:49:01He said, quote, nobody looks at the Preakness.
00:49:05Yeah.
00:49:07What does that tell you?
00:49:08I mean, I'm not going to continue – well, I will.
00:49:13I mean, it's ridiculous that it hasn't been changed.
00:49:17And if this is the impetus, if this happens, and it's the impetus finally for it to change, then maybe
00:49:24it'll end up being a good thing.
00:49:26I hope so.
00:49:27Three weeks is not going to make a bit of difference.
00:49:29It's going to have to be more than that.
00:49:30But right now, that seems to be the only concession that New York is willing to make.
00:49:37We'll see.
00:49:38All right.
00:49:38We're going to take another break.
00:49:39We're going to hear from the PHBA, the Kentucky Bread Commercial.
00:49:42We'll also play.
00:49:43When we come back, we'll wrap things up and look at some of the other topics that took place last
00:49:48week at Churchill Downs.
00:49:50Stay with us here on the Writer's Room Podcast.
00:49:53The TD and Writer's Room, also brought to you by the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders Association, a.k.a. PHBA.
00:50:00We'd like to remind you of some of the important dates coming up this spring and summer.
00:50:05May 8th, Friday, May 8th, is the date for the Pennsylvania Bread Annual Champions Banquet held at the Inn at
00:50:13Mendenhall.
00:50:13I've been there.
00:50:14And Chad's Ford, PA, this year's guest speaker, is the voice of NBC's Kentucky Derby Preakness Sand.
00:50:21That Breeders' Cup announcer, Larry Colmas.
00:50:24Next up, Friday, May 29th, Penn Mile Day at Penn National with a 5 p.m. start and two Pennsylvania
00:50:32Bread Steaks.
00:50:33Next date to circle on your calendar, Saturday, July 18th.
00:50:37That would be Pennsylvania Day at the Races at Parks with over $1 million in purses and awards restricted to
00:50:44Pennsylvania Breads.
00:50:45If you'd like to get in on some of these Pennsylvania Bread happenings, you can get more information about the
00:50:50PA Bread Program by visiting www.pabread.com or by calling Brian Sanfratello at 610-444-1050.
00:51:01The Pennsylvania Breeding Program is the best program in the country.
00:51:06The stallion awards, the owner bonuses, also the restrictive races and the stakes races for Pennsylvania Breads.
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00:51:32With some of the fullest fields in the country and quality racing year-round,
00:51:37there's never been a better time to reap the rewards of breeding and racing in Kentucky.
00:51:43Purse money in Kentucky is at an all-time high, as is average purse per race, outpacing California, Florida, and
00:51:51New York.
00:51:52Kentucky Breads.
00:51:54Breed them.
00:51:55Raise them.
00:51:56Race them.
00:51:57We all win.
00:52:02So where do Kentucky Breads shine?
00:52:05Ryan, of course, on racing's biggest days, such as Oaks Day, always a runner.
00:52:10Won the Kentucky Oaks for owners Doug Scarborough and Three Chimneys Farm and Breeder, Three Chimneys.
00:52:16And Kentucky Breads, of course, had a prestigious double because on Saturday it was Golden Tempo,
00:52:23making history for Cherie DeVoe.
00:52:25We just talked to Cherie and the owner, breeders, Phipps Stable and St. Eli's Stable, who earned a $50,000
00:52:32KBIF bonus for breeding a Kentucky Derby winner.
00:52:37Kentucky Breads.
00:52:38Breed them.
00:52:38Raise them.
00:52:39Race them.
00:52:40We all win.
00:52:42Well, the Kentucky Oaks was run for the first time during the evening.
00:52:46The post time was about 847.
00:52:48The restauranteurs were not happy about that.
00:52:52They were a big story in the New York Times from our good friend Joe Drape about how all the
00:52:59restaurants were so upset about losing their business on a Friday.
00:53:03Now they can kind of understand that, but always a runner, came through for Chad Brown and gave Jose Ortiz
00:53:10the first of his Oaks Kentucky Derby Daily Double.
00:53:16And Randy, as I recall on the podcast last week, and I'll give you credit for this, you had some
00:53:22great insights from your discussion with Chad Brown.
00:53:26And I believe you picked this horse, if I'm going to correct me if I'm wrong, or made her a
00:53:31major contender, based on what Chad told you.
00:53:34Could you rehash that?
00:53:35I loved her.
00:53:36I absolutely loved her.
00:53:36It's nice to be right for a change.
00:53:38Didn't Zoe and I bet two bottles of wine on that race?
00:53:40I don't remember.
00:53:42I thought we saw that.
00:53:42No.
00:53:42You don't?
00:53:43Okay.
00:53:45And we got enough video.
00:53:46We're going to go back and watch, by the way.
00:53:48I guess I must have dreamed that, I suppose.
00:53:50Okay.
00:53:52No, it was a fantastic story.
00:53:54I mean, the horse had pneumonia, so did emerging market.
00:53:57Ironically, but the horse had pneumonia as a two-year-old, and it was touch-and-go for a while.
00:54:02And so that's what delayed her career debut.
00:54:04And she broke her maiden at Tampa and got a very interesting ride and was just in a canter, basically.
00:54:14Then got sick again after that race, and I think missed 20 days.
00:54:19And Chad completely scratched the Kentucky Oaks off his dance card.
00:54:23There's no way we can make the Oaks.
00:54:25And then, suddenly, she begins training pretty well, and she had two really good workouts back-to-back.
00:54:31He said, hmm.
00:54:32So, he looked at the gazelle, and the gazelle seemed to be coming up kind of light.
00:54:36And he said, well, okay.
00:54:37Maybe I should give her a chance.
00:54:39She's not 100% fit.
00:54:40She's probably 70% fit.
00:54:43So, he vans her all the way up to New York, and she wins the gazelle and gets a speed
00:54:48figure just as good as all the leading contenders.
00:54:52And so, you know she's going to take a big step forward.
00:54:55So, I thought it was kind of pretty much a no-brainer there, and fortunately, she ran like that.
00:55:00I wish I had meaning behind her, but I didn't.
00:55:04Terrific race by her.
00:55:06She'd look really good training all week, and it was actually a gunrunner exactor.
00:55:10So, we saw Curlin shine bright in the Kentucky Derby and gunrunner having the first and the second place finisher.
00:55:18She was much the best out of a half-sister to a Breeders' Cup Juvenile Turf winner by the name
00:55:23of Struckter.
00:55:25Not really ambiguously named.
00:55:27She's bike gunrunner out of Always Carina, hence the name, Always a Runner.
00:55:33I could have kind of thought that one up.
00:55:36But given Chad Brown an Oaks win there.
00:55:40Very cool.
00:55:41I thought Explorer ran big to hang on to be fourth.
00:55:44She was right up there in a hot pace, counting stars, that looked good training all week.
00:55:48She ran very good as well.
00:55:50So, kind of a formful Oaks.
00:55:53I liked meaning.
00:55:55I thought she'd hit the board, and she ran exactly where I thought she'd run.
00:56:00But Always a Runner, much the best in there, by far.
00:56:03I heard they were going to name Always a Runner so happy, but the name was already taken.
00:56:10So, Randy, it was a late night for you and the NBC team.
00:56:13But all the numbers came back.
00:56:16And I have not seen the ratings, but I'm sure they were through the roof because the race was broadcast
00:56:23on the USA Network the prior years, which just doesn't have the gravitas of NBC.
00:56:30Handel was way up.
00:56:31It was, from those respects, a big, big success.
00:56:36Which leads to the question, do you think they'll ever try to move the Kentucky Derby to prime time?
00:56:41I don't think that's imminent.
00:56:45Who knows, though?
00:56:47I mean, look, the ratings for the Kentucky Oaks quadrupled the previous high rating.
00:56:55Right?
00:56:56And it was Churchill Downs' idea.
00:56:59I mean, I know some people were saying, oh, NBC, putting it on prime time.
00:57:03Churchill Downs came to NBC with the request, hey, can you put this race on prime time?
00:57:09They believed, rightfully so, that most of America, sports fans, have no idea.
00:57:18They all have heard of the Kentucky Derby.
00:57:20But your casual sports fans that don't follow racing that much probably had no idea that the Kentucky Oaks was
00:57:28the second largest attendance day in American racing the last four years.
00:57:32That it's as huge as it is.
00:57:33And they wanted to, A, showcase the Kentucky Oaks on prime time under the lights, which looked phenomenal, and show
00:57:40people around the country how big the Kentucky Oaks day actually is.
00:57:44And also, at the same time, they thought, and I think they were proven correct, that it would promote the
00:57:51Kentucky Derby the next day even more.
00:57:55Someone tunes in at prime time.
00:57:56They're not a huge horse racing fan.
00:57:58They see the Kentucky Oaks.
00:57:59They watch it.
00:58:00It looks cool under the lights.
00:58:01We're promoing the Kentucky Derby the whole time.
00:58:03Oh, yeah, the Kentucky Derby's tomorrow.
00:58:06Yeah, I think I'll watch the Kentucky Derby.
00:58:08And it was up 11% in handle from the year before, or ratings, the Derby was.
00:58:12So I think it was a double win for Churchill Downs in that regard.
00:58:17Anytime the handle's up 20%, that's huge.
00:58:21I don't know the exact figure, but up 20%, absolutely astronomical for the Oaks.
00:58:27Now, you know, if you're working in one of those barns, it's a long day, long night, long day the
00:58:32next day.
00:58:33I know I saw a picture, I think exactly 25 minutes after the Oaks was run, there was not a
00:58:40soul in the grandstand.
00:58:42Being at the hotel, people were coming back to the hotel at 7 o'clock before the Oaks.
00:58:50There was a mass exodus of people leaving the track before the race was even run.
00:58:54But the fact that it is all about the money and that people were gambling and the handle was up
00:59:00so significantly means it's liable to stay there.
00:59:04The Pat Day Mile, that was a race last week on our preview that both, I think both you and
00:59:09Zoe and maybe even Jerry Bailey as well, said was the race they were looking forward to.
00:59:14Oh, yeah.
00:59:15What a race.
00:59:16What a marvelous race with two just terrific horses, Crude Velocity, an Englishman, Crude Velocity, Bob Baffert, Englishman for Cherie
00:59:24DeVoe.
00:59:25I liked the Englishman.
00:59:26He ran his race, but he just wasn't fast enough or good enough to beat Crude Velocity.
00:59:31And it was only a mile race.
00:59:35But Baffert, as the trainer of Crude Velocity, has said he's thinking of the Preakness, Zoe.
00:59:44You know, I don't see why not.
00:59:46He needs to stretch him out at some point.
00:59:49If he doesn't stretch, I know, and Bob's never been afraid of the two weeks.
00:59:53You know, he doesn't have that same mentality some trainers had where it's just absolutely something they're not ever going
00:59:59to do.
01:00:00I think this horse could win the Preakness.
01:00:02I hope he runs.
01:00:02I mean, to beat the Englishman the way he did, this is one hell of a horse.
01:00:0922.06, 44.1, 108.13, new stakes record, 133.87.
01:00:17I'm not sure Bob thought he'd have to run quite as fast to win the race, to be honest.
01:00:21You know, when he had the Preakness in his rearview mirror, I don't think he believed that the horse had
01:00:27to set a new stakes record to win the race.
01:00:29He was much the best horse in the race.
01:00:32But any time they run that hard and that fast, it does take a little bit of a toll.
01:00:36And I know he won by two lengths going away and looked like a good thing.
01:00:39He's not an overly big, robust horse.
01:00:42He's a beautifully well-balanced little horse by Bo Liam from his first crop.
01:00:48And I don't know what was wrong with him.
01:00:50They paid $12,000 for him as a yearling in October, the Fazit tips and sale.
01:00:55Two months later, they came back and let him go through the digital sale for $3,000.
01:01:00Omar Ramirez picked him up for $3,000.
01:01:04He worked $20,000 and won at the OBS June sale last year.
01:01:09And Bob picked him up for $250,000 from the first crop of Bo Liam.
01:01:14All right.
01:01:14So enough for all this happy talk here, because I am not happy about something that happened at Churchill Downs.
01:01:21Not so happy?
01:01:22Yeah.
01:01:23Not so happy.
01:01:24Not so happy.
01:01:25Yeah, they should have made a horse.
01:01:27That's the next horse.
01:01:27Yes.
01:01:29What happened in the Churchill Downs stakes with the win by T.O. Elvis, the Japanese horse,
01:01:35just shed a light on a problem that I believe is going to cause and is already causing horse racing
01:01:45substantial problems.
01:01:49And it's only going to get worse.
01:01:54A lot of people said that the C.A.W. players, it's Derby Day.
01:01:58There's $8,000,000 in the pool.
01:02:00They're not going to impact things.
01:02:02We saw one of the most dramatic effects of the C.A.W. players, perhaps of all time.
01:02:10And it came with this horse, T.O. Elvis, who was 30-1 in the morning line.
01:02:14It's really not part of the story.
01:02:17The linemaker, Churchill Downs, does a really good job.
01:02:19He just messed this one up.
01:02:21The horse should not have been 30-1.
01:02:23But he goes into the gate at – where's my notes?
01:02:28He goes into the gate basically at 12-1 and would have paid $27.64.
01:02:39The gate springs open.
01:02:40He wins the race and pays $13.74.
01:02:43The X-Acta going into the gate was going to pay $122.77.
01:02:50It paid $54.22.
01:02:53The Daily Double was paying $63.82 and wound up paying $26.80.
01:03:00All that information is from Marshall Graham, who was just so good at keeping track of this.
01:03:04This absolutely stunk to high heaven.
01:03:07It was a terrible look for horse racing.
01:03:10And it reminded us once again that the guys that are out there trying to play this game and want
01:03:16a fair playing field are getting screwed.
01:03:20And the C.A.W. players are driving people out of the game.
01:03:24I estimated that on the win bet alone on T.O. Elvis, they won $1.6 million.
01:03:30And that doesn't even begin to account for the money that they must have won on the X-Acta, the
01:03:34Daily Double, and maybe pick fours, pick threes, et cetera, that they played.
01:03:38Now, what are we going to do about it?
01:03:40Nothing.
01:03:41Because there is no solution.
01:03:43The racetracks are not going to turn down the billions of dollars these people bet.
01:03:46And in the meantime, this thing is getting worse and worse and worse, and the regular players are leaving the
01:03:51game.
01:03:52And this was one of the most egregious examples I have ever seen of this phenomenon.
01:03:57It's not good.
01:03:59It's not right.
01:04:00And it's going to continue to make major problems for this sport.
01:04:04And there, frankly, are no solutions.
01:04:07The game's painted itself into a corner.
01:04:09Congratulations to the C.A.W. guys who took home millions of dollars.
01:04:13And I feel bad for the people that have been on T.O. Elvis, who thought they were getting a
01:04:17$27 mutual, only to get a $13 mutual.
01:04:22The whole thing stunk to high heaven.
01:04:24So it took up a lot of time there.
01:04:26But it was still a great Kentucky Derby day.
01:04:29But if you had to point to one thing that really soured the afternoon, this was it.
01:04:35But how do you really feel?
01:04:40And I didn't bet on the horse either.
01:04:42So if I had bet on the horse, you'd really hear me go off on this.
01:04:46All right.
01:04:46Look, I am not defending C.A.W. play.
01:04:49But let me just ask you some questions.
01:04:51Suppose I think Marshall estimated that $260,000 was bet on the horse in the wind pool by the C
01:04:57.A.W.
01:04:58That's kind of what he thought.
01:04:59So suppose instead of a last second dump that they had bet their $260,000 based on whatever method they
01:05:08use, their algorithm, which they didn't have for Japan.
01:05:13I'll tell you why they bet on the horse in a second.
01:05:15But suppose they had done it beginning at 10 minutes to post and the horse winds up going off at
01:05:245 to 1 by the time they walk up to the starting gate.
01:05:27How would you feel about that?
01:05:28I feel much different.
01:05:30And here's why, Randy, because when you make – I know it's parimutuel.
01:05:35It's not fixed odds.
01:05:36But we all grew up in this industry expecting that if we bet a horse at 3 to 1 going
01:05:42into the gate, he went off at 5 to 2.
01:05:44We're not too upset about it.
01:05:47Maybe he went off at 2 to 1.
01:05:48He didn't see that too often.
01:05:50Wouldn't be that upset.
01:05:51And he goes off at 7 to 2.
01:05:53We're delighted.
01:05:54But the game – you can't make – base your bets having no idea whatsoever what the prices are going
01:06:05to be on these horses.
01:06:06You have to have a general idea.
01:06:09I know.
01:06:10The optics are not good.
01:06:11The horse, by the way, should have been 5 to 1 all along.
01:06:14I don't necessarily disagree.
01:06:16One other point about CAWs, and I don't really strongly disagree with anything you said,
01:06:21but it's not like they're absolutely kicking ass and beating the game without the rebates.
01:06:31Okay?
01:06:32Let's just assume, and I may be wrong about this, that at the end of the day, their bets, excluding
01:06:40rebates,
01:06:41they're 3 or 4 percentage points up, which is a good score.
01:06:45Okay?
01:06:47I made a bet a few weeks ago on a horse that I really liked, and he was 9 to
01:06:522, and I watched him win, and I was really happy,
01:06:56and he paid 7 to 1 because the CAW players crushed another horse in the race, and they were wrong.
01:07:05You never hear about that.
01:07:07You never hear people talking about, oh, man, I got way more money than I thought I was going to
01:07:11get.
01:07:11And they're not right all the time at all.
01:07:15All you hear about are the sob stories, and I get the frustration about things like T.O. Elvis when
01:07:23you think you're getting one price and you get less.
01:07:25But it works both ways also.
01:07:27It's parimutual.
01:07:28Like you said, it's not fixed odds.
01:07:32Randy, I could talk about this for a whole other hour.
01:07:35I know.
01:07:35I know.
01:07:35We both could.
01:07:36I'm not going to say a word.
01:07:38Okay.
01:07:38Because you are the one, Zoe.
01:07:40I understand.
01:07:41You are the one pumping all the money in on T.O. Elvis.
01:07:44Come on.
01:07:44I'm clean here.
01:07:45I'm sitting here.
01:07:46Yeah.
01:07:47Okay.
01:07:47All right.
01:07:48The TDN Writers' Room Work of the Week is brought to you by First TV.
01:07:52Now, while all other three-year-olds were off having fun at Churchill Downs on Saturday, the now seven-year
01:07:58-old gilding Sumter was on the work tab at Santa Anita, breezing three furloughs.
01:08:04In 36 and 4, he may have got some unwanted company down on the inside, but that's him under Cisco
01:08:10having a very, very nice work.
01:08:12It was actually his first breeze since his fifth place finish in the American Stakes at Santa Anita.
01:08:18He had won the San Simeon on March the 16th in his prayer start for trainer Richard Mandela.
01:08:24We'll be right back after this message from First TV.
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01:09:25Visit westpointtv.com.
01:09:29And the TD and writer's room is also brought to you by West Point Thoroughbreds.
01:09:33West Point has a message that I think it might be more effective for me just to read.
01:09:39Big congratulations from West Point Thoroughbreds to Cherie DeVoe and David Ngordo on Golden Tempo's Kentucky Derby win.
01:09:48West Point has been fortunate to be involved with Cherie since she went out on her own and now campaigns
01:09:54a strong group of horses in her barn.
01:09:56From West Point, it's a thrill to see Cherie succeed on the sport's biggest stage.
01:10:07Guys, I thought that was a terrific show.
01:10:09And I want to remind everybody that there's much more available on all the TDN outlets of YouTube and our
01:10:17website this week.
01:10:18Oh, I thought you were talking about NBC. Sorry.
01:10:21Yes, we also have a new enterprise we're calling the TDN Writers Room Overtime.
01:10:27And you can catch that with our exclusive interviews with Daisy Phipps, Bolido, and Jose Ortiz on what we're calling
01:10:34the TDN Writers Room Overtime.
01:10:35And I hope we watch this podcast from beginning to end and also catch the interviews with Daisy and Jose.
01:10:45Zoe, do we get paid for two podcasts here?
01:10:50Is that the deal?
01:10:51It should be three if you ask me.
01:10:55Man, we'll have to.
01:10:57Why don't we unionize?
01:10:58I want to be the union rep.
01:10:59God damn it.
01:11:00We've got to get paid more when we do this stuff.
01:11:02That's for damn sure.
01:11:04Anyways, but great show.
01:11:07A lot of great insights as always.
01:11:08I want to thank my co-hosts, Randy Moss and Zoe Cabin.
01:11:13And I want to thank from this podcast, the Gainesway Guest of the Week, Cherie DeVoe, who, of course, pulled
01:11:20off the historic win with Poland Temple in the Kentucky Derby.
01:11:23I want to thank the people that work behind the scenes and the real stars of the show because they
01:11:27make the book so good when it comes out.
01:11:28And that is Sue Finley, Katie Petroniak, Anthony LaRocca, and Aaliyah LaRocca.
01:11:34Well, we have plenty more to talk about next week as we'll know more about the freak mistakes.
01:11:39Hopefully, we'll get some stars out of the Kentucky Derby.
01:11:41We'll keep our fingers crossed for that.
01:11:43Thanks for tuning us in.
01:11:44Thanks for watching.
01:11:45And we'll talk to you again next week.
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