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00:00Ambassador Greer, welcome back to this program, sir.
00:02Can we just start off by getting your assessment of the current characterization of talks between the EU and the
00:08U.S.?
00:09What is the current state of things?
00:12So I've spent a lot of time over the weekend and here while I've been in Paris speaking to my
00:18counterparts at the European Commission
00:20and my counterparts at Member States about this issue.
00:23Just to go back in time a little bit to last summer when we concluded the Turnberry Agreement,
00:27which was an initial framework, the United States immediately set to work modifying its tariff rates to meet the agreement
00:34that we made.
00:35The EU has had a lot of time, many, many months, to comply with their tariff commitments and their commitments
00:40on non-tariff barriers,
00:41and that hasn't materialized yet.
00:44I think that the minds are focused in the EU and in Europe, I think is probably the best way
00:48to describe it right now.
00:50They're focused on what next steps are and how they might come into compliance.
00:54Well, what are the next steps? Of course, the Europeans have a process.
00:57It's guided by their parliament. What's the exact ask of the United States?
01:02So the ask, if you go back to August, we have a written piece of paper, a joint statement with
01:07the Europeans,
01:08and our ask is that Europe fulfill those obligations they committed to.
01:12The United States complied with its tariff obligations for many, many months.
01:16The Europeans have agreed to remove their tariffs on industrial goods.
01:20They've agreed to give duty-free quotas to key agricultural products coming from the United States.
01:25They've agreed to provide flexibilities for the United States on many of the regulatory matters that the European Union seems
01:31to specialize,
01:32things related to methane content in LNG, things about deforestation regulations,
01:38things about the card and border adjustment mechanism.
01:40So we expect the European Union to keep its part of the deal, which includes flexibilities on those types of
01:45things,
01:46as well as the tariff things.
01:47And with the U.S., our part of the deal is to align our new tariff structure with what we
01:53committed to.
01:53And if they don't come into an agreement, by when is the question,
01:58then would the president potentially escalate to the 25% auto level?
02:05Right now, the United States has a 10% tariff on the world.
02:08Generally speaking, it has 25% on autos from around the world.
02:13Europe has had it at only 15% this whole time.
02:16We have tariffs on steel and aluminum.
02:18We have other investigations ongoing, which may or may not result in tariffs, depending on the outcome.
02:23The idea would be, can Europe come into compliance?
02:27I'm not setting a hard date on this.
02:29My view is it's already passed due, frankly.
02:31This is part of the reason why the president has come out and said,
02:34if the Europeans aren't going to be complying with this deal right now,
02:38why should we be complying with all of it?
02:40All that being said, the autos is just one element.
02:42There are other elements to the deal where the United States remains in full compliance
02:46in contrast to where the Europeans have been for many months.
02:49It's just that your colleague, the ambassador to Europe, told us earlier
02:52they would need to see movement relatively soon and basically said that July would be too late.
02:57We're now in May.
02:59So basically, do you need to see something between the next few weeks for the president not to act?
03:05Well, what I would say is right now this afternoon, I was meeting with my colleague, Commissioner Maurer Stavchowicz,
03:12the trade commissioner in the European Union, and he left the G7 at an appropriate time
03:17to go have what they call the trilogue process between the European Parliament, Council, and Commission,
03:22where they go over the tariff bill that's being debated.
03:25That tariff bill in the European Parliament, it also has a lot of amendments attached to it
03:29that we didn't agree to with the European Union, amendments that could limit the relief,
03:35limit the benefit of the agreement, place limits on U.S. exports to Europe under a preferential trade agreement.
03:44So some of those amendments need to be resolved as well.
03:47It's not just about passing the bill.
03:49It's about making sure the bill reflects what we agreed last summer with the Europeans.
03:52Ambassador Greer, I know for you the focus is going to change what's going on in China
03:55because the president will be going there next week.
03:58Beijing is basically refusing to comply with U.S. sanctions.
04:01I'm sure you've seen the reporting that they're telling some firms, some refiners,
04:05that they don't need to comply when it comes to imports of Iranian crude.
04:10How big of an agenda item is this going to be when the president sits down with Xi Jinping?
04:18Obviously, it's something we're going to have to discuss.
04:21Iran is the world's largest state sponsor of terrorism,
04:25and anyone who's buying oil from Iran is contributing to that.
04:28And so when the Treasury takes a step similar to steps it's taken many times over decades
04:34with respect to oil refiners who are dealing with Iran,
04:38and you have a country that refuses to comply or directs noncompliance,
04:42that's going to have to be a discussion item.
04:44We certainly have had it raised at the staff level between China and the United States.
04:51I would say we're looking for stability with China.
04:53We don't want this to be something that derails the broader relationship
04:58or any agreements that might come out of our meeting in Beijing,
05:00but it's certainly something that may come up.
05:02What more could be done besides secondary sanctions imposed potentially on Chinese banks?
05:07I mean, yesterday the president also said, even though China is doing this,
05:10the president said Xi Jinping has been very respectful of him.
05:13This doesn't seem respectful of the United States and our rules.
05:20Remember, China and every country, you know,
05:23they're going to undertake domestically the laws and regulations they think they need to do.
05:29Sometimes they'll be in conflict with ours,
05:31and we're going to expect some kind of resolution.
05:34At the same time, we have the European Union for years
05:37has had a blocking statute against complying with our sanctions on Cuba.
05:42So what China is doing is serious.
05:44We take it very seriously.
05:45But again, for us, it's not something where we're going to let that become
05:49the only thing we talk about in the relationship.
05:51We have a lot of things we have to cover that will be addressed,
05:54but then we'll address other issues related to trade and geopolitics and foreign policy
05:59and everything that comes with the relationship between two of the most important countries in the world.
06:03Ambassador Greer, there's a real question about alliances here
06:07and the way that the United States and Europe have been discussing
06:10and the tensions that have been emerging
06:12versus the rhetoric that's been surrounding the U.S. and the China meeting
06:16that is planned for next week.
06:18Do you see the U.S. alliances as shifting as some of these negotiations take place?
06:24Or are these negotiations independent of any kind of traditional alliances that the United States has had?
06:34I think that's a good question because it puts into context everything that we're doing.
06:40And I think you have to look a little bit at history.
06:43People think about our alliance system as something that is set in stone,
06:47never had issues, have always been perfect, and there have never been problems.
06:51That's just not true.
06:52I'm sitting here in Paris in a place where, you know, decades ago,
06:56Charles de Gaulle essentially pulled France out of the military structure of NATO
06:59and sought to have its own independent nuclear program,
07:03which in retrospect, you know, maybe de Gaulle was right.
07:06So, you know, we have a long history of having a back and forth between the U.S.
07:10and its closest partners as we try to find the right balance
07:13between international cooperation and alliances and what we need for our sovereign right.
07:19When it comes to trade, the United States, we have to re-industrialize.
07:22We have to reduce our trade deficit.
07:24We have to get real wages up.
07:26We have to have manufacturing as a bigger portion of our economy.
07:29That necessarily means that we need to fix the terms of trade with other trading partners, friend or foe.
07:35And that means we have to have hard conversations with the Europeans,
07:38who, by the way, have the largest trade surplus in the world with the U.S. right now.
07:42It's no longer China as of last year.
07:45With the United States, I don't think we're going to let that get in the way
07:48of whatever military cooperation we want to have with the Europeans.
07:51If other countries want trade to get in the way of that kind of cooperation, that's up to them.
07:56But there's a long history of having economic differences and challenges and resolutions and disputes, etc.,
08:03and siloing that off from military and security questions.
08:07Sometimes they get mixed.
08:08Sometimes they stay apart.
08:09Ambassador Greer, it seems like European representatives feel a little bit differently.
08:13The French trade minister said that it seems like there's a weaponization of mutual dependencies,
08:19and that type of action is causing some real rethinking on their side.
08:25How do you address things like that commentary with some of your counterparts that we're seeing and hearing?
08:33So, you know, I saw that language today, but it was with respect to, and maybe we have a different
08:39understanding.
08:40We put out a G7 statement that talks about that, but it's really about China weaponizing critical minerals,
08:46an area where France, the rest of Europe, and the United States are quite aligned on the way forward
08:52and how we shouldn't allow basic commodities to be weaponized.
08:56You know, the United States is not in the business of cutting off commodities.
08:59We've been exporting oil during this whole Iran operation.
09:03You know, China's the country that's been cutting off and limiting access to critical minerals,
09:07and that's why we're cooperating with Europe on projects for critical minerals,
09:11on downstream processing, on manufacturing.
09:14That's why we're talking about having a plurilateral trade agreement on trade in critical minerals
09:18with Europe, with Japan, and others.
09:21So there are areas of a lot of collaboration and cooperation
09:24as we enter into a period of geoeconomic uncertainty.
09:27Ambassador, that's an interesting point, because for a long time,
09:31the Europeans have just sat on the fence.
09:33They've wanted the security umbrella of the United States,
09:35but also wanted the economic benefits of having a close relationship with the Chinese.
09:40Do you think that's changed?
09:43I think that every country is going to pursue their trading relationships
09:49in the way they think is best.
09:51China is a great example.
09:53We're always going to trade with China.
09:55The Europeans are always going to trade with China.
09:58Europeans, Germany in particular, they've had very close economic relations.
10:02I do think that a lot of European countries and companies are rethinking that.
10:06I think they're being more clear-eyed about the risks and the challenges of doing business
10:11in and with China at the same time.
10:14That's a big market.
10:15They do a lot of manufacturing there.
10:17They have a lot of consumers there.
10:18And so it's a place where people want to be able to do business,
10:21but they want to be able to do it in a reliable and predictable way.
10:25And that's not the case right now and hasn't been for some years.
10:29So while I think that the European view of China is changing and developing,
10:32it doesn't mean there's going to be some kind of massive decoupling.
10:36In the same way that even in the United States,
10:38we haven't had a massive decoupling from China.
10:40We've reduced our reliance on them.
10:42We've diversified from their economy.
10:44But we still want to have a constructive trade relationship if we can.
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