00:11to understand rocky's opponents and who these characters were to be essentially you've got
00:17to understand one of the underlying motivations of each of the films which is that rocky himself
00:23has to be the underdog the characters who play against him have to have some quality
00:29that would offer opposition that was beyond what one might expect a human being to encounter
00:44without the antagonist the protagonist is no one and greatness ultimately need to be tested
00:52and if you can live up to the test that's where greatness is truly found the greater the villain
00:58the greater the obstacle for the hero what makes a great villain is the enemy within himself
01:08these guys these were monsters in their own way each and the choices that were made always with the
01:20thought that how could rocky overcome this how could he match up to these individuals and so
01:28when they were cast it was essentially with that thought in mind i believe
01:38i want the whole world to see me destroy this man after two short rounds because after this fight he's
01:43going to have to donate what's going to be left of his body to science but there won't be much
01:47that i can guarantee we were just down to the last weeks before we were starting the picture
01:52and just couldn't get the right actor to play apollo creed because we needed not only a guy who was
02:00a
02:00a boxer but it had to be someone who was just the opposite of of this rocky character a classy
02:08educated
02:08boxer is what we were looking for in a sense what made apollo creed i guess a great opponent was
02:14apollo creed as any great champion would do will bring out something in you that you didn't know
02:20you possessed you know i mean great opponents have the tendency to do that
02:26you're going down man you're going down he was a champion he was truly a champion and that was his
02:33power you're the best you're the man and he's yours he's yours he's yours he's yours his bum shouldn't
02:38even be in the same ring there was something in that character that resonated as a man for people
02:44that's meaningful to them to be recognized as a man who stands up for what he believes and can handle
02:50himself with what he believes you think i beat him the last time do you you got the decision man
02:58i won
02:59but i didn't beat him no matter where i go in the world people still revere that character because of
03:05what he represented i mean there are places in the middle east there are places in certainly in
03:10africa there are places in mexico there are places in this country where apollo creed is the man
03:29if you give up too easily then it doesn't matter how great that person is as an opponent it's
03:35a statement about you i mean rocky says i could go the distance
03:41but i think it's about you having greater capacity than you thought you had
03:52the guy dreams of just getting in the ring and you know having a chance
03:56but a chance doesn't necessarily define you it's what you do with the opportunity
04:01you know it may seem that there is no way that you can ever defeat the nemesis but you won't
04:10defeat
04:10whatever that thing is inside you you know you won't extinguish the light somebody else is going
04:17to have to put this baby out because i ain't going to extinguish it you know that's that's where i
04:23think
04:23you get defined as a human being as an athlete as a whatever
04:33apollo creed also has flaws he's a human being and what i tried to capture was
04:41that one moment that isn't written where rocky goes down and apollo creed thinks he's won
04:47and he turns around this guy's getting up and i just remember trying to figure out how i'm going
04:52to deal with that moment and there was just this look like you gotta be kidding me
04:57and to this day people will tell me about that one look
05:18what did apollo creed i guess learn you know you can't count the guy out just because he hits the
05:26floor you know you gotta finish him off if he's an opponent you gotta finish him and you know all
05:32the great athletes they finish they finish
05:44they're standing dead in the center of the ring toe to toe
05:47i don't know one of the champions
06:08in order for rocky to succeed
06:12he had to face an opponent
06:15that was greater than himself that he had to summon courage that he didn't even know
06:20existed within him in order to become the hero
06:27the thing about club of lying i think to me was essentially epitomized by one line that he has in
06:34this this picture when he's asked by an interviewer just before the fight that's your prediction for
06:39the fight prediction yes
06:46it's one of my favorite moments in all the films
06:50and it's only club of lying
06:52they could have said it because he was ready
06:55to dish it out but he also was ready to take it
06:59besides this incredible physical quality of him
07:13we didn't ever conceive of this mohawk haircut haircut that was the guy you know that was mr t
07:21no one quite seen anybody look like that for you know yeah gold chains you know the the mohawk is
07:28a pretty intimidating looking character
07:33dead meat
07:35i mean he knew how to frighten people it was his business to be formidable he had been a bodyguard
07:43prior to being in the film
07:47the truth is that he had a heart of gold he was the nicest individual extremely bright
07:55uh and nothing like this character who he chose to be in his life
08:00hey fool you ready for another beating
08:02you should have never came back
08:04without a great antagonist the great protagonist protagonist can never be discovered
08:10you have to go up against something that's going to test your mettle
08:13you have to go up against something that's going to put obstacles in your way
08:18that ultimately will define what kind of character what kind of heart what kind of soul you have
08:25in order to define you at any point in your life
08:34stop
08:35doof lang drin represented this
08:38indomitable enemy
08:39that we didn't understand and he represented everything we feared
08:44about the soviet union
08:45if god forbid there ever had been a conflict
08:48this is what we were
08:50have to face
08:51and we didn't want to
08:52none of us wanted to get close to this kind of a person
08:58Look, I don't want to hear anybody. Just let that jump go.
09:04Stallone was very smart.
09:05It was in the 80s and he wanted to create the greatest villain
09:09and he thought of a Russian Olympic champion, unbeatable machine.
09:21I realized that all the other previous opponents had been very loud
09:25and very kind of animated and so I decided to make the guy very stoic but move too
09:32much and just kind of just be there and just being just by your presence is
09:39being intimidating and that kind of worked.
09:50He made sure there wasn't too much dialogue he made sure there were a lot of
09:53big close-ups, a lot of big stuff on the eyes and he created a very mysterious powerful character.
10:00It's a classic sort of recipe to entice interest in a tough guy character and that's
10:07a big enough obstacle to the main character.
10:09Coming away at the midsection of the Russian and he's just hit him with everything he's done
10:13and Drago just smiled at him.
10:16I think Ivan Drago as a character was in one way sympathetic even though he was the bad guy.
10:22You know after the movie people will kind of look at you like an athlete who kind of who was
10:27working for the
10:27evil empire and you were it wasn't really your fault and so I think even even Drago had his
10:34sort of mythological story there an arc to some extent.
11:01And I think that was that was a great nice nice thing of Sly to give to me and to
11:06the character.
11:31Slyvester's strength was so, in a way, other than Apollo Creed,
11:36they lacked that quality I think to some extent. They were fighters, they were gladiators.
11:43And to see this individual quality that was so far beyond who Rocky was.
12:03In 89 I had a number of fights on ESPN and it was then that Frank Stallone, who's Sly's brother,
12:12saw me fighting on TV and he knew that his brother was wanting to find a villain of some sort.
12:20You know, at 19 years old I didn't look like a villain, but they turned me into one.
12:24Tommy Morrison was literally the new kid on the block. Tommy Morrison, we were seeking something very different.
12:31He was the apprentice and he caught those qualities. It was wonderful. He was brilliant, I think, in the part.
12:38Look, Rocky, you don't know me. Anything you want me to do, I'll do. And if I can't, I'll bust
12:44my butt trying.
12:45Man, I'm not hustling you, man. All I'm asking for is a chance. Not just one shot.
12:50He was vulnerable and yet ambitious. And there was just a germ, a seed, you might say, of what was
12:58going to follow, which was the betrayal.
13:00Man, the way I'm going, I'm not going to get a shot at the title for a long time.
13:03Man, I've got a perfect record. I'm 22-0. Where's the money? Where?
13:07Man, we haven't made any serious money yet. And we weren't without the man.
13:11I ain't talking about the money. Look, the money's going to be there, but I'm talking about your rep, Tommy.
13:16Tommy Gunn was dealing not only with the slimy side of the sport, but he was dealing with the enemy
13:20within himself.
13:22I was lured away from Rocky by money, by corruption, by someone promising me the world and in the end
13:31not producing.
13:31Man, I'm as good as bad boy ever was. I don't give a damn what they say. And I'm tired
13:34of being called a damn robot, too.
13:36That inner demon started coming out physical, and I started going after him, wanting to fight, and wanting to hurt
13:42the guy that made me who I was.
13:44You know, and I think that's what makes, what made Tommy Gunn a good character, a good villain.
13:50Get him out of here! Get him out of here! Get him out of here! Get him out of here!
13:54Tommy, get off me!
13:57You knocked him down. Why don't you try knocking me down now?
14:00The one thing that surprised everybody was us fighting in the street.
14:03You know, I don't think anybody expected that.
14:06We want my respect!
14:07We'll come and get him. Come on, Tyrock.
14:10Come on, Tyrock.
14:11Come on, Tyrock!
14:14And, uh, I still think that we need to fight in the ring.
14:28Well, Sly helped me grow up a lot, and it was a great honor to be around, uh, to be
14:35around those people.
14:36Well, Rocky was everything for me. It was my shot. It was, uh, creating a career and a life for
14:41myself.
14:42It's, um, you know, it's been wonderful, and, um, I have Stallone to thank for it and, and, and the
14:48business.
14:48I'm, um, eternally grateful for the opportunity, really.
14:52I've come to believe that everybody is tested ultimately, and some of us have the, the strength, the stamina, the
14:59wherewithal, you know, are in touch with things that are beyond us, that we can never imagine or understand, that
15:06we simply hook onto and take the ride with.
15:10And through fear, through trepidation, through mistakes, through all that stuff, we come through it.
15:17And, yeah, we have the bruises and the scars and all that sort of stuff.
15:21But in spite of that, we heal, we get up, and we go back at it again.
15:24And that, in its own way, defined Rocky.
15:26Their yearnings, their hopes, their ambitions, their lack of ambitions, their insecurities, um, are totally universal.
15:35Ultimately, we were looking for archetypes in the Rocky opponents.
15:39It's a classic Joseph Campbell hero.
15:43It's a classic mythological hero.
15:46And each of these people, in their own way, offer that kind of example.
16:09The
16:09The
16:09The
16:09The
16:09The
16:11The
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