- 6 minutes ago
'Wonder Man' creators Destin Daniel Cretton and Andrew Guest, along with star Yahya Abdul-Mateen II chat with THR's Borys Kit to talk all about their Disney+ series during a THR Frontrunners conversation.
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00:00and i asked him i said hey i know i only get one marvel buck to spend like is this
00:05gonna be worth
00:06my dollar because i can wait and he said he said no trust me it'll be worth it um and
00:13i'm so glad
00:14that that this is the role that i got to spend my dollar on because i'm getting all of the
00:19super
00:20stuff and i'm getting all of the human stuff at the same time it is and it's really uh it's
00:26really
00:26a gift i've got one of the best jobs in the world playing sonny williams for sure
00:36okay now looking back in january when the first the show first launched and then you know the few
00:41years that you guys worked on this are you at all surprised that we're now talking about a second
00:46season and now we're talking about awards consideration for something like for this show
00:57surprise gaya and i were just having a conversation about optimism versus pessimism yeah
01:04um and and it is very easy when you start a project to look at all the negatives
01:10um or or think of the worst case scenario but from the very beginning i i really did feel like
01:18this
01:19project was special and i was you know i feel like from the beginning the studio was excited about
01:26doing something something different it was tapping into the the child and all of us that and and the
01:36reason why we chased this crazy weird dream and you could see that that kind of happening from
01:44kevin feige to our executives to our producers to everyone who was on set when we talked to yaya like
01:50it's this the story just tapped into something that that really made the experience extremely fun
01:57to where i don't think any of us gave a rip if where it ended up um the way that
02:05we made it was
02:06was uh was uh so really kind of i don't know there were many times when i was on set
02:13with with yaya and
02:14sir ben or with my dp and and the vibe was just like screw it just try it you know
02:22just try it just try
02:24something um it's amazing that we're here i'm not gonna lie it's awesome uh so i i i don't want
02:33to say
02:33it was it was i'm surprised but i kind of think we're so wrapped up in this wonderful world that
02:40we weren't thinking about it what's been the most sort of surprising reaction all of you guys have
02:46gotten uh you know from either fellow actors or fellow directors or just people in response to this
02:53show i will say one of the things that's been really rewarding is people who don't think they
03:00like marvel shows or have nothing to do with marvel and would think they wouldn't want to watch it
03:04and find themselves binging my mother's therapist literally the last person who would watch a marvel
03:12texted her was like i stayed up all night i've never binged a show before i watched the whole thing
03:17you know and and i i feel like that's a testament to the destin's directing yaya and sir ben's performance
03:24that people get pulled in and uh this is a show that hopefully people connect with and excuse me um
03:32the thing that's been most most rewarding to me about this experience is that it actually makes a
03:40difference it's been making a difference um and people who have dreams and aspirations and they they see
03:49so much of themselves in simon's journey um i get messages uh all the time about people who are on
03:56on their way to somewhere and they sometimes feel like giving up or they don't feel seen or you know
04:03they feel like they're all alone or maybe they have you know pivoted and moved into a different direction and
04:10then
04:10through watching simon they're rooting for him and hope they were rooting for him and hoping that he didn't
04:15make the same choice and and and and that's been able to you know sort of light a fire under
04:20them
04:20or just or even like not even a fire but like just protect their candle you know protect their light
04:26from from uh going out so uh it's really you know um uh reach people of all walks of life
04:35and not just
04:35the creative field you know people with secrets and aspirations of being something other than what they
04:43currently are you said you were watching uh videos of people watching the show yeah yeah yeah it's the
04:50first time that i did that um uh it usually takes me about three seasons three years uh to to
04:58watch my
04:59work but for this one i was sort of curious because it was comedy so i wanted to see if
05:02people would get
05:03the jokes you know what i mean and um and they did get the jokes but they but i also
05:09saw people
05:10going on the ride when simon's in that car in episode three um they're saying well i'll go with
05:20episode one because since we just watched two you know watched two episodes when simon's in the
05:24beginning in that first episode and he's you know making adjustments to the pencils and when he's
05:31talking about the script and maybe we should do it this way they're on the edge of the seat saying
05:35no
05:35don't do it that way man it's like oh this guy needs to shut up and then you got have
05:40have the
05:41ones that are just experts and there's like he's blowing it you just can't do that you know so people
05:46really they got to interact with this from all different uh from all different angles and later
05:52on especially the parts where simon felt like giving up they really really didn't want him to give up uh
05:58and and to me that that that signal that they were right there in his shoes that like the the
06:03entire
06:04time that's amazing um you guys uh so this started off as as two different shows correct when you guys
06:13sort of then came to uh came together on this yeah it started off with like kind of a joke
06:18show which
06:19was trevor goes to hollywood it was like this um this joke pitch that i i gave to to jonathan
06:28schwartz our
06:28producer on shang chi um that we should just do a show called trevor goes to hollywood and just
06:33follow him to to this place that he disappeared from and find out all the things that he all the
06:40trouble that he's been running from um that that joke pitch turned into a real thing uh when we found
06:47out that wonder man was was in early development uh of uh of this character that also operates in the
06:56mcu
06:57hollywood um and so the the those two ideas collided and that that's when andrew came in to
07:06help us try to discover how we could make a show out of these two very distinct characters
07:13yeah they were uh which is on unlike marvel they were really open to any interpretation of this
07:19comic book character who has a very complex uh and and and varied backstory and they were like
07:28we don't we really want to try to do a show about the entertainment industry uh and that let us
07:35sort of
07:36really explore what i was the most interested in which is this guy who does have a dream that this
07:42town is
07:43is tough it is hard to create a career here the people who come here because they believe in
07:49something it's it's a testament to them that we get these stories made and even when they're pains in
07:54the ass like simon is and and you know sometimes that's that's what you need you need that pain in
08:00the ass because they're gonna elevate the material and there's something beautiful in that to me even
08:04though god you don't want to work with simon when you're fucking starting out you know it's a pain
08:08yeah well it's funny you guys talk about like sort of the magic of of the journey and uh right
08:15now
08:16there's there's a bit of a doom mentality over hollywood and and the entertainment the film and tv
08:21industry um but but this show it has a lot of sort of sincere sincerity and magic to to the
08:29hollywood
08:30journey and you know how do you find that right tone to keep it from veering that the sky is
08:37falling or
08:39conversely you know how do you make it not too much of a satire but still like keep it on
08:45this on
08:45this journey it's also all you guys i mean for me it what i have always loved about you know
08:54all the
08:55scripts that came out of this amazing writers room that andrew put together um it was always just
09:02character first it was and and the character of simon williams um is not that he's a superhero it's
09:12not that this is a satire on the mcu or superhero movies it's also not that this is a it's
09:19it's not
09:19only just a satire on hollywood i think this is a a show about this kid who had gifts and
09:28the gifts are
09:29the things that made him very different from the p and feel like an outsider since he was a kid
09:36um those gifts are also what happens to make him a pain in the ass and a really good actor
09:43um and
09:45the only person that really believed in him or or what was was his dad who's no longer with him
09:53that to me is the heart of this of this season you know and and that connection to movies to
10:01me is
10:01rooted in his connection to another person that he loves and there's nothing more relatable for me than
10:09than that moment sitting in a theater with somebody you love and where the the movie becomes the most
10:16important thing in your life because of the person you're sitting next to and the experience that you
10:22went went through that day did you guys have a uh somebody that you went to the movies with
10:27that did how you kind of have that moment personally yeah personally i remember going to see uh league of
10:36extraordinary gentlemen with my dad that's the that's the only movie that i ever remember see wow that's
10:43the only movie that i ever remember seeing with my dad and it was because of that that for a
10:48long time
10:49leave league of extraordinary league of extraordinary gentlemen was like my favorite movie like my
10:58favorite movie and it was because i saw it with my i saw it with my dad so that that
11:03absolutely
11:04trans it had nothing to do with the movie it had nothing to do with the movie it had to
11:08do with like
11:08the guy who i was sitting next to you know when i was so uh young so yeah i have
11:14that that's that stuff is
11:15super like i saw crocodile dundee 2 with with my dad and i you know i the movie is a
11:22movie but like
11:23it's that you know that you remember you remember the parent dad being there what about you andrew
11:27indiana jones seeing it multiple times with my dad who loved that movie and i loved it with him for
11:34that reason yeah cool uh yaya so you before this had done aquaman as a villain uh then you did
11:44the very
11:44mysterious role of doctor manhattan in in watchman uh and when marvel came calling for this were you
11:52at all like okay i've done enough comic book stuff or were you like did you need convincing to do
11:58this
11:59i did need some convincing but i still but i wasn't it techno it wasn't like i had done enough
12:04man i was
12:05over there looking over the fence i was waiting for a chance to like come and play in the marvel
12:09world and
12:09you know i really i really see no i guess i really wanted to be over here playing like it
12:15was it was
12:16so cool what what marvel was doing they were building something that i thought was very smart it was fun
12:23it was funny my friends were uh you know my my friends were on the marvel side and uh um
12:30and i really
12:32wanted to um i really wanted to play but when the phone call did come i had a conversation i
12:40had a
12:40couple conversations where i had one conversation with destin and i said i want to play a character
12:44who can take a sip of water you know because i had been chasing aquaman for two movies you know
12:50and
12:50i had i was the only human i had didn't get a sip of water in like two movies and
12:54i'm in this hot suit
12:56and aquaman's chugging beers and riding motorcycles and drinking and eating hamburgers and i'm like
13:01i'm like hey dude i'm the only like human in this movie so i kind of want to sip but
13:07i don't have
13:09baggage i don't have baggage no but so um destin let me know that hey we're gonna do something that's
13:16human something that uh he said basically you will get a chance to have your sip of water and i
13:22said okay
13:22cool and then i had i said okay well i need to still talk to feige to make sure that
13:26it makes
13:27that this actually makes sense for me to do and my reps did not want me to bug him for
13:33a conversation
13:34and i said no i need to talk to him and they said well maybe maybe somebody else i said
13:39get him on the
13:40phone or i'm gonna say no and so did feige can you have so foggy you know he made time
13:46and he had
13:46the conversation and i asked him i said hey i know i only get one marvel buck to spend like
13:53is this
13:54gonna be worth my dollar because i can wait and he said he said no trust me it'll be worth
14:00it um and
14:02i'm so glad that that that this is the role that i got to spend my dollar on because i'm
14:07getting all of
14:07the super stuff and i'm getting all of the human stuff at the same time it is in this really
14:12uh it's
14:14really a gift i've got one of the best jobs in the world playing sonic williams for sure
14:19so that's that's his perspective of getting cast and what about you two guys trying to chase him
14:26to convince him how was how was that process or maybe it wasn't that challenging for you guys
14:31i mean i i remember our first conversation and you you weren't at least you weren't portraying to me
14:40that you were bouncing off the walls about to say yes in a second um so it definitely i i
14:45think
14:46rightfully so um a you were wondering you were wondering about the experience how the experience would
14:55be that was one one thing which which i you know that's that's one thing i i feel like we
15:02can
15:05um control is the experience of what we're about to do not necessarily control the weather or the
15:12money or the time pressure but we can we can control who who we hire and the types of people
15:17that are
15:18going to be working on this we were able we knew we were shooting in la i knew so much
15:23of the crew here
15:23it's like the best crew in the world um but also it's you know this is a city of dreamers
15:29and so we knew
15:30that that i knew that we could create an experience that would be fulfilling um the the other thing
15:37that yaya was very uh pointed about was tone um he wasn't interested in doing a a slapstick comedy he
15:48was also not interested in doing a you know just a straight down the middle superhero show um and i
15:56was
15:56very happy to hear that um because that that was not what we wanted for this show and i will
16:04say as
16:04a as a writer i had before we began this casting process write us pilot where i was making a
16:10choice
16:10about who this character was and trying to figure out how simon worked or whatever and one of the
16:15things we all knew and this may sound stupid but simon had to be a really good actor because not
16:22only
16:22does he have to act well in the show he has to act not well he has to act poorly
16:27and that is hard to do
16:28and i didn't want to have a character be like oh my god did you see that terrible performance i
16:32wanted
16:34simon's performance to be the thing that we knew as an audience was either good or bad and that is
16:38really hard and destin had seen yaya and top dog underdog on broadway he's like andrew you got to go
16:44see him and i went i mean i'd already was a fan of his work from the watchman series and
16:48many other
16:49things but i mean how many people look like a superhero have a soul of a poet and have his
16:55ability and his range i mean it's a one-of-one situation so i was just thrilled that he was
17:01interested
17:02and that we all wanted to make the things that interested us about this project were all the same
17:07things and we were all trying to make the same show top dog underdog was what fully convinced me
17:13that you would be the perfect simon williams because that play i mean the the subject matter
17:22of that play it should not be funny um but man i when i was when i saw i flew
17:28to new york to watch it
17:30and i was i was in a you know the i think the audience that i was in was pretty
17:36classic theater
17:37audience like you know upper class type type people who you know but who who i didn't even
17:45think would get the play yeah but they were rolling on like i mean it was very it was also
17:51very dramatic
17:53and and emotional but the parts that were funny which were just just just yaya on stage by himself
18:01prepping just cleaning and getting ready for the for the date or whatever dude and it goes on forever
18:08and the audience were just rolling because um anyway that's that's when i knew that's why
18:15well you you brought this up about an actor playing a bad actor and a good actor so to yaya
18:21you're an actor playing an actor and you have to play an actor who was a bad actor you have
18:26to then play
18:27an actor who is an improving actor and then you also then have to find your way to be an
18:33actor who
18:33plays a good actor um so how you want to know how i did it yeah how yeah how did
18:40you do it and and then
18:42and what was sort of the internal clock that you were setting you know at different stages all right so
18:48um and how did these guys help i'll take a minute to to tell this if i can so we
18:53were talking about
18:54optimism outside right one of the things that i do for myself well i'm not always optimistic
19:00about everything but in my acting i try to stack the the deck in my favor one of the things
19:06that i
19:07had to make very simple is like i'm not an actor playing an actor i had to take away all
19:12of that
19:12and i had to say what is um basically i i set it up such that um
19:23simon's fears and his insecurities that's what he was always dealing with he was just a guy who was
19:30who had a dream he had some goals but he was afraid he loves acting but he was just really
19:36navigating
19:36his nerves on the inside he was really navigating these rough waters acting was the only place where
19:47uh he he felt quiet on the inside so it was really my process was really such that i allowed
19:58it
19:58i allowed simon to be calmed by um the act by the opportunity to stand on the marking to say
20:07the word
20:07so acting was really simon's uh his safe space and everything else was was really the the physical
20:17negotiation of like the nerves and what's going on on the inside so i never thought about
20:22playing an actor being an actor because all of that that would just get way too complex for me
20:27and the camera would pick that up and and i wasn't too sure if that would be a good thing
20:32i don't want
20:32to start behaving like simon and trying to move pieces around stalling and things like that because
20:37i'm trying to get my mind right you know so i broke it down and i made it really really
20:41simple um
20:43so that i'd never have to be an actor playing an actor i would just have to be simon really
20:48trying to
20:49cover up his fears or or or or you know going through his his really going through his internal
20:56moments while betting on this the the the acting experience being the thing that sort of calms those
21:05waters and then when it came time to that it either worked or it didn't but luckily when it didn't
21:11you know we just do another take you know i didn't have to get it all right on the first
21:16take
21:17you know what i mean so so it was it was it was teamwork but i definitely did have my
21:21method to make it
21:23less complex still a feat to do you know still a feat to do but yeah jump in on that
21:29one or no
21:31i i mean i would only say that i don't think simon in this show is ever a bad actor
21:37um
21:39i does some bad uh performances on his self tape where he does where we know i'm just saying that
21:45he's not he's not a bad actor in general he does a bad performance in the moment like sure i
21:50i really
21:50like those performances oh i was like would you like to charge it how about that one would you like
21:57to
21:57charge it to the room how about that what was that rap that rap from which were oh my god
22:04zombies
22:04yeah which i didn't i recently watched zombies with my kids and saw that rap this is a disney
22:12movie and i was like but it it for when i saw the rap i was like simon williams should
22:18have booked this
22:18part he's so much better he's not better but he was like he wasn't say that no i'm not but
22:24i was
22:25saying he was acting in the tone of that show he did a great job so it wasn't one of
22:31the times he was
22:32performing um let's talk about working with uh sir ben yeah uh he he's you know has a reputation of
22:43being a very serious actor uh a thespian yeah as they say um do you remember yaya uh your first
22:52meeting
22:52with him yeah my first my first meeting was a zoom meeting and i wanted to meet him to tell
22:57him uh to
22:58really you know being i'm you know number one on the call sheet i'm just being a leader and i'm
23:02introducing myself to the guy who's going to be my partner and i want to see if he needs anything
23:06and
23:07he let me know very quickly that he don't need a thing he's not gonna need a thing from me
23:15and that if i wanted to get in make any changes to the script that i better do it now
23:19because he's
23:20putting those words in his head and once they go in it is stones that that it is stone that's
23:27what he said
23:29and i was like oh okay all right um i'll talk to you later i'll let you get back to
23:34your little
23:34glass of wine and we was over at zoom oh boy that put a that lit of fire under me
23:40i was like you know
23:41i don't think sir ben know who he dealt with over here you know what i mean yeah you texted
23:45me right
23:46because i knew that he was that he was talking to sir ben and then i i got the text
23:51right after why
23:52didn't you warn me but then i when i thought what what i really respected was your response was like
24:00okay i he because you said i i cut i i kind of like it yeah and and and i
24:08think that's that's what
24:10ended that attitude very quickly won the respect of surveying yeah it was a it was a challenge and this
24:16is
24:17this is the very beginning stages and i took that as a i took it as a slight i was
24:21on broadway doing
24:22some of my best work i'm 100 shows in i'm i'm classically trained you know yeah i've been around
24:28for nine years but like you know nine to his 40 or whatever how many years he plus years he's
24:34been
24:34around but you know i put in real tough work real real hard work during those nine years and i
24:41you
24:41know i respect myself but so i showed up to the table read ready to go and i'm prepared and
24:46he's
24:46going and i'm going and then it was sort of like we just saw each other and i think he
24:52said oh he cares
24:53and then i said oh he he just cares and that was really all that we needed to be
25:01um sort of in cahoots and then we really became partners and then our job was to protect
25:08simon and trevor and to protect this story because we weren't always going to have you know
25:12destined he would be there on the phone you know but he was there to kick us off you know
25:16to set us
25:17off for those first two episodes and then we were going to be the constant moving throughout the rest of
25:23the age so we really formed a partnership that allowed us to advocate for those characters in
25:28between action and cut and and that's that's really what the relationship ended up being like a
25:33really uh beautiful uh um you know relationship did the uh relationship extend beyond the set
25:41were you guys hanging out uh at restaurants no no that that he wasn't interested in that and he he
25:48sir ben basically treats the the process incredibly seriously and and and and when he's working he's
25:57working yeah and he's a monk you know he he goes home and he and he knows his lines and
26:03it you know
26:04he's somebody who you know with this classical shakespearean training treats the script like it
26:10it's his job to make it work he's not coming there with questions or wants to change things if it's
26:16on
26:17the page i go home i figure out how to make it make sense and i come home and i
26:21and i come on set and
26:22i'm ready and i'm and he works and then and then he takes his time and he takes whatever else
26:27he needs
26:28but it's it and it in in in a great way it it you know it extends throughout the whole
26:32set and
26:32everyone's taking the work more seriously and we also didn't need it we didn't need it and we didn't
26:37want it we we i met sir ben and i i kid you not in the rehearsal process that's where
26:42i met him a bit
26:43but i met sir ben in the moments between action and cut just as simon were was meeting uh trevor
26:52and the camera witnessed it and that's why as the season progressed these two characters they get
27:01closer and closer and closer in friendship because we didn't because we were actually establishing a
27:06relationship and meeting one another finding one another in between action and cut talking and listening
27:12and then cut and we walk in our different directions he's always way over there and i'm over
27:16here looking sometimes but i'm way over here doing my thing you know top of the day the most we
27:23would
27:23do is at the top of the day we would say what's the story and then we talk less than
27:28a minute on
27:29what the story was then he'd go over his way i'd go my way and then i'd see him on
27:33the mark you know when
27:35it was when it was time to go and that was a um perfectly fine way to work was this
27:41series shot in
27:42order pretty much i'm just gonna uh jump to the end then uh second season where uh what can you
27:50tell
27:50us about like the direction or the tone uh of a of a season two because the the ending is
27:58you know
28:00through the sky right so uh what can you say the tone is going to stay the same the people
28:07who uh
28:08like this show and like it because it feels different are going to be rewarded and the
28:14people who are like well maybe the show's going to suddenly turn into something else i'm sorry to
28:18say uh it's not i mean the every element that's still here simon still has superpowers it's still
28:24going to be a show about this relationship and about two artists and about our industry that is
28:30uh essentially what we want to maintain and where are you guys in the writing process now or or where
28:36yeah the early stages of the writing process so you're writing you're like awesome if anyone has
28:42any ideas and want to pitch me some ideas after this okay well and on that note let's uh wrap
28:48this up
28:48thank you guys so much
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