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All in with Chris Hayes - Season 14 - Episode 09
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00:00All in. Donald Trump wants this chaos. We cannot give him what he wants.
00:06President of the United States threatens military escalation on Minnesota.
00:11The Insurrection Act is a tool at the president's disposal.
00:14These Democrats are deranged in their hatred for President Trump.
00:18Tonight, why Trump's Midwest offensive isn't playing out like he planned.
00:22And new reporting on the growing number of ICE shootings into Carr.
00:26Then, Maine Governor Janet Mills on becoming Trump's next target.
00:33Maine will not be intimidated and we will not betray the values that make us who we are.
00:40And Congressman Jamie Raskin on his demand to know if ICE is hiring January 6th defendant.
00:46All in starts right now.
00:53Good evening from New York. I'm Chris Hayes.
00:55The Trump administration is now threatening to put down the people of Minneapolis with military force as if they were
01:02rebels against the United States government.
01:04Chaos is being visited on the city and neighboring areas by 3,000 armed mass federal agents, a number that
01:11totals more than all the combined law enforcement in the area.
01:14It includes the shooting of a man in the leg just last night that led to even more protests, which
01:19led agents to launch gas canisters and flashbangs at residents, including a father just trying to evacuate his young children
01:26in his car.
01:27Trump posting this morning, quote, if the corrupt politicians of Minnesota don't obey the law and stop the professional agitators
01:34and insurrectionists from attacking the Patriots of ICE, we're only trying to do their job.
01:39I will institute the Insurrection Act.
01:41Donald Trump wants to use the Insurrection Act of 1807 badly.
01:45It gives the president limited authority to use the military for law enforcement, and he wants to use it to
01:50sick the U.S. Army in American cities.
01:52Plain as death.
01:53In the past 24 hours, two top Trump officials who have been orchestrating the ICE raids around the country are
01:59out there laying the groundwork, quite obviously, for Trump to do it.
02:04This is clearly an insurgency against the federal government.
02:08They are describing the federal government as an occupying force to incite violent insurrection from organized agitators against federal forces.
02:22I discussed with the president this morning several things that we are dealing with under the department and different operations.
02:28We did discuss the Insurrection Act.
02:29He certainly has the constitutional authority to utilize that.
02:34Now, aside from, like, the obvious bad faith and lying happening here, there's two really important pieces of context.
02:40The first is that Donald Trump clearly believes the Insurrection Act is a magic wand he can wave to eliminate
02:46opposition.
02:46And we know this because he said as much the first time he threatened to invoke it back in 2020.
02:52If a city or state refuses to take the actions that are necessary to defend the life and property of
03:00their residents, then I will deploy the United States military and quickly solve the problem for them.
03:07Do you remember that Republican Senator Tom Cotton even wrote that very controversial op-ed in The New York Times
03:13calling for Trump to drop the Army Airborne Divisions on U.S. cities?
03:17Trump wanted troops in the street who would shoot protesters in the legs.
03:22And the only reason he didn't get that was because his advisers at the time, including, crucially, the Secretary of
03:27Defense, restrained him.
03:29And now we know no such restraints exist.
03:32This has been very clear from the first mass deployment of mass iced agents last year in Los Angeles.
03:37They have been plainly, obviously, strenuously trying to engineer a pretext for invoking the Insurrection Act against the very people
03:47protesting against their overreach.
03:50And I got to say, in some ways, taking a step back, one of the most remarkable stories of the
03:56last six months or so has really been the tremendous discipline and restraint of people protesting.
04:02And, I mean, to be clear, I don't want to, like, gloss over this, right?
04:05There were some cars that got burned in L.A. that first weekend, definitely.
04:09After last night's shooting by an ICE agent in Minneapolis, some protesters spray-tainted anti-ICE messages on a car
04:15believed to have been used by federal agents.
04:17And some broke into other cars.
04:19But, again, we're talking, like, thousands and thousands of these incidents have been happening all over the country now for
04:25months.
04:26And those isolated incidents are different than what they are falsely claiming.
04:31They say there is just this, like, widespread wanton violence by organized paid agitators incited by Minnesota officials.
04:38It's ludicrous.
04:39I mean, just to point one thing out, Minnesota officials have been doing the complete opposite quite consistently.
04:46I don't know if you've been watching this, but, for instance, today Governor Tim Walz put this message on social
04:50media, quote,
04:51I am making a direct appeal to the president.
04:53Let's turn the temperature down.
04:55Stop this campaign of retribution.
04:56This is not who we are.
04:58And an appeal to Minnesotans.
04:59I know this is scary.
05:00We can, we must speak out loudly, urgently, but also peacefully.
05:04We cannot fan the flames of chaos.
05:06That's what he wants.
05:07Same message Jacob Fry, the mayor of Minneapolis, has used.
05:10Same message I've heard from every Democratic elected official in Minnesota.
05:13Basically, don't take the bait, don't give them what they want.
05:18If you resort to lighting things on fire or property damage or any kind of assault or violence,
05:24that is going to be the pretext, the tripwire, to do the thing they want to do,
05:27which is to send the troops in and start shooting.
05:31And what's been evident to everyone, again, look at these images, right?
05:35I mean, we're all seeing them every day.
05:37There is chaos in Minnesota.
05:38It's being almost entirely caused by our own federal government, Donald Trump's government,
05:45the government that is supposed to protect and serve us and defend us,
05:49the government that we all pay for.
05:51It's being caused by that government, by the DHS agents that he has mobilized.
05:57They're the ones creating the chaos.
05:59They're the ones creating the disorder.
06:01They are the ones going door to door.
06:02They're the ones randomly ripping people from cars and workplaces and stores and bus stops.
06:08They're the ones egregiously, systematically violating our most cherished civil rights as Americans.
06:15And one thing Stephen Miller said was true, weirdly.
06:19When you talk to regular Minnesotans, what they say is that it does feel like an occupation.
06:27I'm protesting the invasion that we have in the city.
06:31We didn't fight wars so we could have this happen in America.
06:34I think he's making war on our state in the same way as Venezuela.
06:40That greed led.
06:41Sounds like you don't fit the definition of the...
06:43I'm not paid to be here like everybody says.
06:46What the is that?
06:48I got to work in the goddamn morning, just like everybody else.
06:51I'm just here trying to stand up for community, dude.
06:54We're all human beings here.
06:55I don't give a s*** who you are, where you came from, what color you are.
06:58It doesn't f***ing matter.
06:59This is wrong.
07:01Part of this is by design because Donald Trump fundamentally, fundamentally,
07:07sees parts of this country, and there are many of them,
07:09that didn't vote for him in large majorities.
07:13He sees those parts of the country, Minneapolis, St. Paul, the Twin Cities, Chicago, L.A., New York,
07:18you name it, as enemy territory.
07:22And that they need to be subdued by force, if necessary.
07:27They're very corrupt people.
07:29It's a very corrupt state.
07:30I feel that I won Minnesota.
07:33I think I won it all three times.
07:36Nobody's won it since Richard Nixon won it many, many years ago.
07:41I won it all three times, in my opinion.
07:44And it's a corrupt state, a corrupt voting state.
07:48Viewer, you know already, but I feel duty-bound to point it out.
07:51He did not win Minnesota all three times.
07:53He lost it all three times.
07:55Minneapolis, Los Angeles, D.C., New York.
07:58Now maybe Maine.
07:59Another state Trump has lost three times.
08:02Authorities say they expect the cities of Portland and Lewiston to be next on ICE's occupation list.
08:07In fact, we'll be speaking to the Maine governor, Janet Mills, on that later in the show.
08:11So that's all vital piece of context, right?
08:14Like the desire, the itchiness, the obvious itchiness to be able to unleash the troops against Americans,
08:22a thing that they keep talking about and threatening and want to do.
08:25There's another piece of context here, which is that in my lifetime, only one person has ever actually led a
08:35violent insurrection against the U.S. government.
08:38Donald Trump, on January 6th, 2021, inciting the deadly assault on the Capitol and its police in hopes of overturning
08:46a free and fair election, of ending American democratic rule.
08:50And he was indicted for it.
08:51He was set to be tried for it until his handpicked Supreme Court saved him from it by fabricating a
08:56new legal theory.
08:58And then when he won that election, which was a free and fair election, he won it.
09:03And then his first day, he promptly released every single last person that engaged in the insurrection he had led.
09:10And that included the ones that had assaulted police officers, thrown things at them, beaten them in the head, tried
09:17to crush them indoors.
09:19It involved the people that are convicted of seditious conspiracy, far-right violent militias like the Proud Boys and the
09:24Oath Keepers.
09:26Now that Trump is president again, he doesn't need those groups because, well, he's got federal agents.
09:33He's got the Department of Homeland Security.
09:36But just as the vast majority of Americans felt appalled watching what happened on January 6th, they seem to feel
09:45the same way watching what is coming out of Minnesota.
09:49Trump seems to think that violence is this kind of Trump card, that by unleashing violence on American cities, that
09:57he's going to win this battle.
09:59And I got to tell you, I don't think they will.
10:01In fact, I think they're already losing.
10:04And everything they're doing right now is a sign of weakness.
10:09Sherilyn Eiffel is the founding director of the 14th Amendment Center for Law and Democracy at Howard University.
10:12She's previously president and director of counsel for the NAACP Legal Defense Fund.
10:17And she joins me now.
10:18Sherilyn, let's start on the Insurrection Act.
10:21It has been invoked and deployed throughout American history.
10:24Weirdly, someone told Trump this at one point, and he likes to kind of keep repeating it as if, you
10:28know, that matters because he does it.
10:31It's been a while since it was invoked.
10:33How seriously do you take the threat?
10:35Why do you think they keep waving it around?
10:40First of all, I do take the threat seriously.
10:44And, you know, I'm so glad you pointed out that Trump has threatened this before and threatened it in 2020.
10:49I mean, one thing I would just add to your excellent analysis, Chris, is that Trump, because he has no
10:55sense of democracy, of representation,
10:58he has no sense of what it means to be a true country, what the job of being the president
11:05is, he sees citizens as an annoyance unless they are, you know, telling him how wonderful he is.
11:14We saw it in the Ford plant yesterday or day before yesterday when a worker screamed something at him and
11:22Trump very just aggressively said, F you, F you, and then gave him the finger.
11:26Like, he's not able to understand that that person is a citizen who is entitled to an opinion.
11:30And he's not able to understand that people in these jurisdictions who oppose his policies, who didn't vote for him,
11:38shouldn't in some way be subdued or punished.
11:40But I also think, Chris, that these are kind of test runs for what Trump, I think, ultimately wants to
11:49do.
11:49It's hard to get your hands around some of the big cities, right?
11:53We saw what happened in Chicago, the kind of resistance that happened.
11:56We saw it in Los Angeles.
11:58I think they're casting about for a place they can get their hands around and use as an example.
12:05That's one of the reasons I think that they like to continue this in Minneapolis.
12:10And it doesn't surprise me that they're beginning to talk about some towns in Maine.
12:13They want to be able to exercise this power and to subdue an American city as part of kind of
12:20a dry run of being able to do this more broadly.
12:23But I want to salute the people of Minneapolis and St. Paul of the Twin Cities and across Minnesota who
12:30have been amazing, who have exercised their First Amendment rights,
12:34who have tried to protect their community, who have not taken the bait.
12:38And I think you're right that this is Trump's problem.
12:41Trump's problem is we're all seeing in real time, because of all these citizens putting out these videos, who is
12:47the aggressor?
12:48And the Insurrection Act is to be invoked because there is an insurrection from the populace that the local law
12:55enforcement and the state law enforcement cannot manage.
12:59That's the purpose of the Insurrection Act.
13:01But it's so clear that the violence and the chaos is being perpetrated by the ICE agents.
13:09And until those images turn, until Trump is able to keep needling and provoke something that looks different,
13:16he's going to be in a pickle because he doesn't have the kind of traction now to be able to
13:21support invoking the Insurrection Act.
13:25Part of what I think, I think that's such an important point, and I think relatedly, you know, I don't
13:32want to be too sanguine about this because obviously, you know, Trump has a very strong base.
13:37There's between 30 and 40 percent of the people in the country, I think, basically support him essentially no matter
13:43what, somewhere in that range.
13:45But it's also the case that, again, in the same way people felt like almost a visceral revulsion at the
13:49desecration that was January 6th.
13:51So I do think these images inspire something very deep in people about a core part of our civic religion.
13:58And that's really like, aside from the kind of violence, it's just the idea that in a free country, you
14:03don't have to present your papers to masked authorities.
14:05It's sort of papers, please shorthand that we have for tyranny.
14:08I want to play you what what Kristi Noem said, which is basically everyone has to be prepared to prove
14:13their citizenship to ICE officials.
14:16Take take a listen to what she said. Are you advising Americans to carry proof of citizenship in every situation?
14:23We're doing targeted enforcement. If we are on a target and doing an operation, there may be individuals surrounding that
14:30criminal that we may be asking who they are and why they're there and having them validate their identity.
14:36I don't I don't think I think that's unconstitutional, but more importantly, in some ways for popular opinion, I think
14:42it's just deeply repellent to most Americans.
14:45That you have to prove your citizenship on command to an officer of the law.
14:50Well, it's grotesque and it really does hearken back to slave patrols, which is increasingly what this activity is beginning
14:58to look like, you know, going door to door and demanding that people prove that they have a right to
15:04be here.
15:04But more importantly, we're seeing, Chris, they don't care.
15:07More importantly, we're seeing people showing that, showing their passport, showing their licenses, showing their green cards, and they're being
15:15taken in anyway.
15:16And we saw a really, really frightening report out of Minnesota yesterday of one woman, American citizen, who was taken
15:22in and held.
15:23And she reports that she was questioned by officials of the Department of Homeland Security and told that if she
15:30had friends who were undocumented, they might be able to they might be able to help them out if she
15:36would tell who the leaders of the protests and the insurrection are.
15:40So, like, this is this really bizarre thinking that they have, that there's some hidden leader they're trying to really
15:47make Antifa work, you know, as part of the trigger for this Insurrection Act.
15:52But that's what's happening. So you take it. They're taking in U.S. citizens, sometimes knowing they're taking in U
15:58.S. citizens.
15:59So it's not even that you present your papers and then you're fine.
16:03It's that you it's simply a pretext to be able to get those numbers up so that Stephen Miller will
16:08be satisfied that a certain number of people are in custody.
16:12This is absolutely lawless. It is out of control. It is an affront to the idea of citizenship.
16:17It takes us back to the middle of the 19th century. It has no basis in current law.
16:24And it's therefore a shame that in an opinion that was completely unnecessary, a concurring opinion in a shadow docket
16:33ruling, that Justice Kavanaugh issued a ruling that appeared to give cover to this action.
16:39And it has only gotten worse since that opinion in the Noem case earlier, late last year.
16:45And as a result, we're seeing the naked racial profiling and we're also seeing the agents believe that they have
16:53the right to accost, to harm, to take in anyone who doesn't agree with them, who's who's filming, who's standing
17:02too close, who's cursing at them.
17:04These are not actually real law enforcement agents.
17:08Kristi Noem keeps saying the brave men and women of ICE as though they're members of the military.
17:13These are people who, you know, took their $50,000 signing bonus and bounty and had their 47 days of
17:20training, if that, and loose background checks and not passing psychological exams and barely literate, some of them, who were
17:29taken in so that they can engage in precisely the kind of action we see them engaging in.
17:34And as we look at this, Chris, and we see the videos, it's clear that some instructions are being given.
17:39They're behaving too similarly.
17:41The breaking of windows, the dragging out of the cars.
17:45There's just so much similarity in the way that they're acting that it's clear that they have been authorized to
17:50do precisely what they are doing.
17:52That's well said.
17:53We're actually going to look into that with one of my colleagues, David Noriega, about shooting into cars, which is
17:58something that, you know, should be just incredibly rare that law enforcement ever does that and has been shockingly common,
18:05at least in the last several months.
18:07Sherilyn Ifill, as always, great pleasure.
18:09Thank you, Chris.
18:11Coming up after MSNOW reporting on ICE's next target, Maine Governor Janet Mills tells me what her state is doing
18:17to get ready.
18:18That's next.
18:22So we've seen this grim pattern unfold over the last year where the Department of Homeland Security makes a big
18:26show of announcing the next target of its campaign of fear and menace.
18:31Yesterday, following an inquiry from MSNOW, the mayors of the two largest cities in Maine, Portland and Lewiston, warned that
18:38their cities will be the next target.
18:40They urged their constituents to know their rights, to create a plan if they are stopped by federal authorities.
18:44Now, both cities, we should say, have large Somali-American populations dating back decades.
18:49In fact, it was 23 years ago this week that Lewiston was actually the target of a coordinated white supremacist
18:57hate campaign in which extremists tried to purge the city of its Somali residents.
19:04In a statement to her constituents, Maine's Democratic Governor Janet Mills made clear that ICE's tactics of fear and intimidation
19:10are not welcome in her state.
19:12Governor Janet Mills is also running to Maine's Democratic Senate nominee, and she joins me now.
19:17Governor, it's good to have you.
19:18First, just what have you been told and by whom about the possibility of some surge of ICE DHS operations
19:26in your state?
19:28Well, thanks, Chris.
19:29Look, we've been trying to find out, first of all, seeking confirmation or denial, calling federal officials and saying, can
19:36you tell us something here?
19:37Can you tell the police, the local police, are you sending people in for some action?
19:42As a matter of common courtesy, you ought to let us know.
19:46We've gotten no response, no confirmation or denial.
19:49And the fact that there was no denial tells you volumes, speaks volumes, I guess.
19:54So we have to prepare and assume that they're sending some people in for some kind of operation in our
20:00cities.
20:01And I will tell them, as I said last night, if they plan to engage in provocative actions,
20:08if they plan to deprive people of civil rights, civil liberties on our streets, in our cities and towns, they're
20:14not welcome here.
20:15Those tactics are not welcome here.
20:17We are a state that applauds professional law enforcement.
20:22We know good law enforcement when we see it.
20:24We hold our law enforcement agents to strict training requirements and high professional standards.
20:30And I'll tell you one thing.
20:31They don't wear masks.
20:33They don't have to wear masks to hide their identity.
20:36They don't make arrests based on some quota from any higher up.
20:41That's not good law enforcement.
20:43We don't want to see happen here, what's happened in other cities.
20:47We don't welcome it.
20:48We don't want it.
20:50I just want to confirm what you said at the beginning there, because it is pretty remarkable to me.
20:53So there's just there's really not any communication.
20:56There's no one from DHS who is saying one way or the other, like there's no channel there.
21:03Correct.
21:04Correct.
21:05You know, as a matter of common courtesy, you would think that their law enforcement would talk to our law
21:11enforcement, that the governor of a state would be notified if there's some major operation coming or deny it.
21:17Just tell me it isn't going to happen.
21:18I'd welcome the news.
21:20We'd all welcome that news.
21:21But I will tell you what, we stand for good communications.
21:26Our stand, our state stands for civility and we stand for civil rights and civil liberties.
21:32And what we do, we will do if they come here is do everything we can to protect the safety
21:38of the public and the civil rights and civil liberties of all people in Maine.
22:09Do you have a message for them?
22:13They're feeling targeted and freaked out and like they're the ones that these federal agents are coming to seize or
22:20mess with.
22:22It's a terrible thing to to target an entire community based on race, ethnicity, religion.
22:30Look, the pretense here ostensibly from public reports is some kind of fraud.
22:36Look, I welcome any and all evidence of fraud.
22:39If somebody has evidence of fraud, let us know and we'll pursue it.
22:44We have been pursuing it, actually, in Medicaid fraud.
22:48We've been auditing for the last three years a certain organization.
22:51But listen, to target and castigate an entire community because of the alleged misdoings of a couple people is wrong.
23:00And it's unconstitutional in my view.
23:03It's discriminatory.
23:04Listen, I was a district attorney for three counties, the elected district attorney.
23:08I was attorney general of this state for eight years.
23:10I prosecuted fraud.
23:11I prosecuted all kinds of crimes.
23:14I know how to investigate fraud.
23:16I know how to prosecute fraud.
23:18It need not result in a street sweep of innocent people.
23:22It need not endanger the civil rights and civil liberties of people because of their ethnicity, their color, the color
23:30of their skin or their religion.
23:32It need not entail a sweep or an operation of the sort that has gone on in other states and
23:38cities across this country.
23:40It's a pretense.
23:42I know you've said you haven't heard anything from the Trump administration or DHS.
23:45Have you been in contact with other governors, particularly Democratic governors like J.B. Pritzker?
23:51Sure.
23:51Tim Walz, Gavin Newsom, and others who have been experiencing this about how to game out and prepare your state
23:57for whatever does happen?
23:59Yes, we talk.
24:00I mean, we're friends anyway, and we certainly have talked.
24:03And they've offered any support they can give.
24:06And I've welcomed that.
24:07But at this time, you know, we stand for due process.
24:11This administration in Washington has taken a wrecking ball, not just to the White House, the East Wing and maybe
24:18the West Wing,
24:19but a wrecking ball to the Constitution of the United States, a wrecking ball to our rights.
24:24I happen to believe that the Constitution of the United States is something more than a suggestion box.
24:29It does stand for due process.
24:31It does stand for equal rights and equal protection under the law.
24:35And that's what we in Maine stand for, too.
24:37And we will resist any attempt to take away the civil rights and liberties of our residents in Maine or
24:45to use provocative actions to terrorize people on the streets of our cities.
24:52Maine Governor Janet Mills, whose state is apparently preparing for some kind of targeted ICE enforcement operation, although no one
24:59will confirm that in her record.
25:00And as you heard here on this program, she has not been contacted by anyone in the federal government.
25:05Governor, thank you very much.
25:07Thank you, Chris.
25:09Still ahead, brand new reporting on the growing number of ICE shootings that go unrecognized cross-country.
25:14That's next.
25:20Another person was shot by a federal officer in Minneapolis last night.
25:23We don't have any details yet beyond the Department of Homeland Security's side of the story.
25:28In a lengthy statement posted to social media fairly shortly after the event, they claim that federal officers chased someone
25:33during a traffic stop.
25:34And when an officer caught up with that person, quote, the subject began to resist and violently assault the officer.
25:41According to DHS, two other people then came out of nearby apartments and, quote, attacked one law enforcement officer with
25:46a snow shovel and broom handle.
25:49DHS also claims the person officers were originally chasing joined the attack, quote,
26:03Now, we don't know what happened, and that may actually be an accurate reflection of the events.
26:08But we as a news organization have not been able to independently verify their claims, either throughout eyewitness accounts or
26:14video evidence and the like.
26:15And the reason I say that and the reason that's really important is because at this point, the Trump DHS
26:22has a long track record of either wildly shading the truth in favor of their agents and against the people
26:28they encounter or just plainly outright lying about what happens during incidents like these.
26:34What we do know is that immigration agents have shot at civilians in more than a dozen incidents since Donald
26:40Trump reentered the White House, including the two in the week since Renee Good was killed.
26:46MSNOW national reporter David Noriega has been specifically tracking instances of ICE and CBP agents shooting at people in their
26:53cars, a project he started working on before Good was shot in her vehicle last week.
26:58And he is out with new exclusive reporting on that tonight.
27:01And he joins me now, David, it's really great work.
27:04Just give us first the sort of top line of what you found about incidents, how many incidents there have
27:10been, and under what circumstances have we seen DHS agents firing into cars?
27:15So, Chris, the top line is that we, I and our colleague Kay Guerrero, examined 14 instances in which either
27:22ICE or Border Patrol agents fired their weapons into vehicles, some stationary, some moving since July.
27:28There is a very clear pattern here of not only the shootings themselves and what happens in the field, but
27:35also of what happens after in terms of the often unfounded or misleading or in some cases verifiably false statements
27:41that DHS makes about what happened.
27:43So, for the former point, for the field, first of all, just to get that out of the way, Chris,
27:48the law enforcement experts that I spoke to, including a couple of former police chiefs of major urban police departments,
27:53told me that they're pretty shocked by the frequency with which federal agents are doing this.
27:57Because it's been established best practices in American law enforcement for decades that you simply do not shoot at vehicles,
28:03especially moving vehicles, except in the most extreme of circumstances.
28:07And they find it remarkable that these agents don't appear to have been successfully trained to that effect.
28:13This is attributable, by the way, Chris, to the change in tactics that we've seen DHS use in American cities
28:19beginning here in L.A. last June, which are evidently, as we can all see, remarkably aggressive.
28:25One person who was shot at in Washington, D.C., a U.S. citizen, described the experience to me as
28:30like a carjacking.
28:31Now, on the second point, in terms of what happens after, Chris, in every single one of these 14 instances,
28:38DHS made the exact same claim, which is the claim that they made in the Rene Good case.
28:43And it is the claim that the person who was shot at had, quote, weaponized their vehicle and attempted to
28:47either strike or ram or run over federal agents or their vehicles.
28:50But in very few of those cases, does that claim actually hold up to scrutiny?
28:54So assaulting a federal officer is an extremely serious offense.
28:58And if DHS publicly accuses someone of doing that, then you would think there would be criminal charges forthcoming.
29:02Now, in only four of those 14 cases, have those criminal charges stuck to the point that they're ongoing.
29:08In four other cases, the charges were either proactively dropped by prosecutors for lack of evidence or thrown out by
29:15judges in many cases over issues involving the handling of evidence or due process.
29:20Now, last thing, real quick, Chris, I did hear from DHS.
29:23I asked them for a comment on this reporting.
29:24They said that the pattern is not the use of deadly force by law enforcement, but that the pattern is
29:28people trying to run over federal agents with their cars.
29:31Tellingly, though, when I asked them about a number of specific incidents, they just gave me the same statements that
29:35they had made back when those incidents first happened, even though the claim that people had weaponized their vehicles was
29:39directly contravened in many cases by video evidence.
29:41Chris?
29:42Yeah, I mean, there's a few of these.
29:43There's the one in Chicago in which an observer, not unlike Renee Good, was driving.
29:51She was then boxed in.
29:52They fired into the car.
29:53They released a statement saying she tried to hit them, that she was armed with a semi-automatic weapon, I
29:57think they, I believe they said.
29:58Her name was Miramar Martinez, the woman they shot.
30:00They fired seven bullets into the car.
30:02And then when it came time for them to actually prosecute her, because, I mean, they said, again, that she
30:08was deadly assaulting.
30:09They intervened to get the judge to drop the case.
30:13It seemed because they didn't want any more discovery to happen.
30:16Right.
30:17They dropped the case proactively.
30:18And also, it's worth noting in that Marimar Martinez case, Chris, that the federal agent who fired the shots, who
30:23claimed that Martinez rammed his government vehicle with her car,
30:27subsequently drove that vehicle out of state with agency authorization, had it repaired and cleaned before the defense could inspect
30:35the vehicle.
30:35And this is far from the only example of DHS, and in some cases, DOJ, who didn't respond to a
30:40request for comment from me,
30:43very clearly mishandling evidence in due process.
30:46There's an important case here in L.A. that I've been following, the case of Carlitos Ricardo Parias.
30:50He's a sort of a TikToker, also an observer, ICE observer, who goes by the handle Richard L.A., who
30:55was shot in his vehicle.
30:56There's body cam video of that footage, which hopefully we can show here.
31:00The DHS, by the way, released that body cam video five days after the discovery deadline in the case,
31:06which is one among many reasons that the judge eventually threw out those charges.
31:09The other main reason being that ICE prevented this man's public counsel,
31:13counsel, the federal defenders representing him in court, to access him while he was in ICE detention,
31:18thereby, according to the judge, violating his right to counsel.
31:21There are countless other instances similar to this, Chris, that we've detailed in the reporting.
31:27Yeah, I mean, one of the things that's so striking, even though we're playing that body cam footage,
31:30there's another one with Francisco Longoria, who was pulled over, teenage son in the passenger seat.
31:36Again, agent breaks the window.
31:38Longoria drives off, fired at truck, right?
31:40Like, there's a few things happening here that, again, in my coverage of policing are really, really, like, frowned upon.
31:47Not to say that cops don't do this, but smashing windows is pretty rare.
31:51Getting in front of around driving cars, certainly shooting at vehicles that are fleeing is, like,
31:58constitutionally prohibited, is my understanding of the Supreme Court jurisprudence on this.
32:03And I'm just curious, like, what's the actual text?
32:05You know, you've got DHS use of force policy, which says that they're prohibited from discharging firearms at the operator
32:12of a moving vehicle
32:13unless the use of deadly force against the operator is justified under standards articulated elsewhere in the policy.
32:19Before using deadly force under these circumstances, a law enforcement officer must take into consideration the hazards that may be
32:25posed to law enforcement
32:26and innocent bystanders by an out-of-control conveyance.
32:29I guess my question is, is this a result of policy or is this in contravention of the actual policy
32:36that you've got so much shooting into cars?
32:39It's a great question, Chris.
32:41I spoke to a couple of former DHS officials, including one who worked specifically in overseeing internal use of force
32:48investigations at CBP.
32:50And what they told me is that from what they can tell, that latter official, by the way, Chris, served
32:55in both Republican and Democratic administrations,
32:56career official, not a political person.
32:58Well, what these former officials told me is that it appears to be the case that these incidents are happening
33:03not because they've changed policy,
33:05the use of force guidelines remain the same as they were under prior administrations, but because they're essentially ignoring policy.
33:10Right.
33:11And another important aspect of this, Chris, is related to that second part, what happens after the shootings,
33:16which is that when you have DHS spokespersons, other officials coming out and making these often unfounded or verifiably false
33:22claims
33:23about what happened during these incidents, they are fundamentally compromising the integrity of any investigations into the incidents that happen
33:29after,
33:30including criminal investigations or internal disciplinary investigations by the agencies involved, Chris.
33:35All right.
33:35David Noriega, this great reporting.
33:37It's available on our website, MSNOW.
33:39Thank you for doing it.
33:40Thanks for joining us tonight.
33:43All right.
33:44Still to come, the messages of hate coming from the American government.
33:47Congressman Jamie Raskin on what it means for the country and what can be done.
33:51Next.
33:56As Department of Homeland Security personnel wreak havoc on American streets, the stuff the department itself is putting out on
34:02social media
34:02and other places is equally disturbing.
34:05This was the ad the U.S. government agency put out for recruitment featuring the caption,
34:09we'll have our home again.
34:11Now, that's a song that has become an anthem among white nationalists.
34:16And that's really been the theme of their communications.
34:18Yesterday, the White House tweeted this meme, Which Way, Greenland Man,
34:22which is a reference to a white supremacist screed called Which Way, Western Man?
34:26We also got Which Way, American Man?
34:30DHS shared a post that says we can return to 1943 for ICE recruits to protect your homeland,
34:36defend your culture, and remember your homeland's heritage.
34:40On Saturday, the Labor Department, of all places, called for one homeland, one people, one heritage.
34:51Last week, DHS Secretary Kristi Noem held a press event and stood at a podium with a slogan,
34:56which I had to, like, read and try to make sense of.
34:59One of ours, all of yours?
35:02With big, blown-up mugshots of black and brown people behind her?
35:07It's kind of a pretty specific tone, doesn't it?
35:10Democratic Congressman Jamie Raskin of Maryland has sent a letter to Noem and Attorney General Pambani
35:15warning that, quote, DHS uses white nationalist dog whistles in its recruitment campaign for ICE agents
35:20that appear aimed at stirring members of extremist militias which participated in the January 6th insurrection.
35:26And Congressman Jamie Raskin joins me.
35:29You know, Congressman, if it were one instance, you know, they would have this sort of plausible deniability,
35:34but it's not.
35:35It's repeated.
35:37Do you think the Department of Homeland Security is explicitly attempting to recruit extremists
35:43with far-right ideologies, white supremacists, Nazis and the like, into the DHS?
35:51Well, we don't know for sure, but it certainly looks like it, Chris.
35:54Look, they've added a $50,000 sign-on bonus for people going to work at ICE.
36:01They have dramatically cut the training requirements.
36:05They have promised ample overtime payments to people, and they seem to be making this very careful,
36:15deliberate, cultural recruitment appeal to people who, you know, share the most extreme ideological views
36:25in the country.
36:26Meantime, we know there are a lot of former J6ers working at the Department of Justice.
36:31One of them is Ed Martin, who was there on January 6th, who tweeted out that this was like Mardi
36:37Gras in Washington.
36:39He's now the U.S. pardon attorney and also head of the appropriately named Weaponization Task Force.
36:46He's brought on as his senior advisor, Jared Wise, who's another January 6th-er, who's a January 6th defendant.
36:54And there are others there at the Department of Justice, and they're not trying to hide it.
36:59And yet, with ICE, what we've got is the only law enforcement or military institution in the country,
37:06not the Army, not the Navy, not the Marines, not the National Guard, not state police, local police, county police,
37:11that go around masked.
37:13Why are they the only ones masked?
37:16What are they trying to hide from us?
37:18And, you know, we've had various people contact us to suggest that we check out what kind of hiring is
37:25taking place of January 6th insurrectionists.
37:29So we sent a letter.
37:30We've not gotten a direct reply.
37:33But the things that they're saying in response certainly don't deny that there are January 6ers who've been hired into
37:40ICE.
37:40And from the looks of some of the violence that's taking place, it wouldn't surprise me at all.
37:48It's very unnerving to see the institutional voice of the country and the federal government in this kind of, you
37:56know,
37:56sound like a 4chan Nazi, for lack of a better comparison.
37:59Another example of that today, this really kind of knocked me over today.
38:02This is the Undersecretary of State for Public Diplomacy.
38:05Pretty important job, actually, as someone that speaks for the government,
38:09getting into a Twitter fight with National Socialists of TikTok over the question of whether the Jews let the Browns
38:17in,
38:17as National Socialists of TikTok said.
38:19And here's the response from, again, the Undersecretary of State for Public Diplomacy.
38:25Germany infamously retains very few Jews, yet imported barbarian rapist hordes.
38:32As an American, I'm allowed to call them that under Merkel.
38:34Even today, Germany suppresses political opposition, who point this out.
38:38You guys will say this because Jewish NDO tentacles is treated too harshly by history.
38:43You will say this because you're dumb trash who prefer to promote conspiracy theories
38:47rather than describe Germans' agency over the country's future.
38:50So, I guess, trying to knock down the Nazi TikTokers' argument that the Jews let the people in,
38:56but referring to refugees from Syria as barbarian rapist hordes?
39:01Is it the public undersecretary of the public diplomacy?
39:07Well, this is what intramural conflict looks like on the extreme right, Chris.
39:12You know, I suppose it's a good thing that you've got the Trump official who's trying to
39:18distance the administration at least a little bit from the neo-Nazi position on this.
39:25But, you know, you needed a magnifying glass and a tweezers to try to disentangle their positions there.
39:33There's also today, and since I have you here, I have to ask you about this.
39:39The winner of the Nobel Peace Prize, Maria Machado, came to the White House today.
39:44And there's been all this reporting that Trump was pissed that he didn't get the Nobel Prize,
39:47and he's pissed at her that she didn't give it to him.
39:49And then Sean Hannity seemed to kind of float a thing where he was trying to kind of get her
39:53back
39:53in the president's good graces and suggested she give him the prize,
39:56and then they agreed for him to come to the White House and meet him.
39:59Well, lo and behold, she gave him her medal.
40:02She presented Trump her Nobel Prize today at their meeting.
40:05Trump has tweeted that he has it.
40:06I guess he's going to keep it.
40:07It's a keepsake.
40:08It was my great honor.
40:10She presented me with her Nobel Peace Prize for the work I've done.
40:13Such a wonderful gesture of mutual respect.
40:18Thank you, Maria.
40:19I mean, I don't even know what I want you to say about this, but, like, what can you say?
40:25I mean, if somebody gives him a Super Bowl ring, he'll be convinced he was the greatest football player
40:32who ever played in the NFL, you know?
40:36Well, I mean, I think the idea here is that, like, if she gives him something, maybe she'll make him—
40:41she'll make her—he'll make her the president of Venezuela, the regime that he's now controlling?
40:49Well, I guess that's right.
40:51I mean, everybody, you know, is tiptoeing around the king, and nobody wants to say the emperor's got no clothes,
40:58who's in his immediate vicinity, so they'd rather, you know, turn over their peace prizes
41:03and try to lure him into doing the right thing, you know?
41:07Unbelievable.
41:08Congressman Jamie Raskin, as always, thank you.
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