00:00Now, Sanna Marin became Finland's youngest prime minister at the age of just 34.
00:05During her tenure, she oversaw major shifts in Finland's foreign policy,
00:10including its accession to NATO in the wake of Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
00:15Our Europe editor, Maria Tadeo, sat down with Sanna Marin yesterday
00:18and started by asking her about Peter Maggia's victory over OrbĂĄn in Hungary
00:23and what it could mean both for Hungary and the European Union.
00:27I think it gives hope to Europe and I know that I am
00:32and I know that many in Hungary and many in Europe are relieved
00:36with this outcome of the election of the Hungarian parliamentary elections
00:40because it also gives now much more space of solutions about Ukraine.
00:46We all know that OrbĂĄn has have Ukraine under his pressure on many occasions and many situations.
00:53So, of course, we hope that now things will flow forward.
00:57And also, I think it's hope for Hungarian people.
01:00And, of course, you were prime minister of Finland.
01:03You sat at the European Council.
01:05You also sat with Viktor OrbĂĄn.
01:07Over the past few weeks, we've seen tapes that leaked of alleged conversations
01:12and some of them caught on tape very openly between the Hungarians and the Russians.
01:16Is that something that you suspected?
01:18And is it just a red line has been crossed already?
01:21The idea that this communication was certainly happened before and after meetings.
01:25Of course, I have worked together with Viktor OrbĂĄn in the European Council.
01:30And we have had many difficult situations and discussions, for example,
01:35concerning Finland's and Sweden's NATO membership.
01:38Hungary was a second of the last countries that ratified our NATO membership.
01:46And there have been many situations.
01:50And we know that OrbĂĄn has a very different view on the war in Ukraine.
01:57And also, for example, rule of law, applying rule of law in Europe.
02:01Is this Ukraine cannot win it?
02:01You said objectively, Ukraine cannot win it.
02:04You've said Ukraine can win it.
02:06Ukraine must win it.
02:07I would say Ukraine must win it if Ukraine doesn't win the war or have,
02:13and this I mean, have an outcome on a peace negotiations that will be sustainable,
02:19that would be fair for the Ukrainian citizens.
02:22And that will provide security to Europe and to Ukraine in the future.
02:27If we won't have that, we as Europe, we are under jeopardy.
02:31Because Russia is, as we speak, they are preparing themselves.
02:37They are modernizing their army and they are preparing themselves to much wider fight.
02:43So they're preparing for war with Europe?
02:44The rest of the continent?
02:46I wouldn't rule that out.
02:47And we also need to prepare.
02:49And for that we need strong Ukraine,
02:51because Ukraine has the largest, most functional and modern army with modern warfare experience.
02:58And without Ukraine, we are vulnerable.
03:00We need their lessons learned.
03:01We need their help.
03:03And we need to understand that we are as dependent on Ukraine and Ukrainian capabilities,
03:08that Ukraine is dependent on our health.
03:10And you mentioned NATO.
03:12There's been a lot of friction over the past few weeks.
03:14Certainly the president of the U.S.
03:15making it very clear that he believes the Europeans have done very little in Iran
03:19and also said that NATO without the U.S. is a paper tiger.
03:23When I hear these words, this is exactly what Russia would like to hear.
03:26NATO is a paper tiger.
03:28And the U.S. may consider reassessing their relationship.
03:31How concerned are you?
03:32Because a country like yours certainly needs a strong NATO.
03:36I'm very glad and I still support our decision joining NATO.
03:41I think it was the right one.
03:42At the same time, we have to understand and realize that NATO is a different organization now
03:47than it was when we and Sweden joined.
03:50Because Trump is a president.
03:51Because of the changing relationship between U.S. and Europe, it has already changed.
03:57And it is changing.
03:58And this is a fact that we cannot escape.
04:00And it means that we need to focus on our own game.
04:03We cannot anymore only rely on the U.S. presence and U.S. capabilities.
04:08We have to build our own.
04:10And now we are speaking European defense capabilities and European unity, European military forces.
04:17And I think this is extremely necessary discussion.
04:20And we should also discuss more about the European nuclear deterrence.
04:25This is a discussion that I see happening already and the necessity to have it.
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