00:00The Norwegian Foreign Minister Espen Bartheide was in town in Brussels yesterday to co-chair a
00:06meeting on promoting a two-state solution for Palestine. He spoke to our Europe editor Maria
00:12Tadeo shortly after that meeting. Maria started by asking him about the situation in the Middle
00:17East and whether he feared a return to hostilities between the US, Israel and Iran is the most likely
00:24scenario as the expiration of the ceasefire nears. Well, these are different questions.
00:32If you look at Iran, I would say the difficult part is that the sides are far apart. I mean,
00:40first their demands are far apart, although they have been working on them. I think there's been
00:45some progress, but also because one party or the other party is asking the other party to do some
00:52of the things in the ceasefire before they go to the meeting. So my advice will be go to the
00:57meeting, talk to each other. On the good side, I think there is a motive in both countries,
01:01both in the US and Iran. The war was highly unpopular in the US and created a lot of havoc
01:07in the world
01:08economy. And I also think that Iran, who has been severely battered through the attacks, would like
01:13to avoid the continuation of war. So there is a motive and let's all try to work to help them
01:18to
01:18go in the peaceful direction. This is not only an issue for the two sides, but it affects the whole
01:25world economy. And what role for the Europeans? Because President Trump has expressed his frustration
01:29at the Europeans and NATO to saying they have not done anything. This is a paper tiger. Without the
01:36US, they are not capable. What's your response? Well, you know, I believe very much in NATO. I believe
01:42NATO is good for all its members, including the United States. There are so many other things
01:48NATO does. And by standing together, we are defending the transatlantic area. But NATO is a
01:54defensive alliance. It's not an attack alliance. It's, you know, there have been occasions where
01:59we have joined forces in entering into faraway battles, but that has then been well prepared
02:05beforehand. One has made the argument was uninvited. The allies and collective decisions has been made.
02:13None of that was tried before the Iran war. So there was a very limited appetite to be part of
02:20the war.
02:21However, many NATO countries, including my own Norway, is now dedicated to work on making sure that the
02:28Hormuz Strait is open and remains open, not as NATO, but as in the context of a broad coalition of
02:36interested
02:36the parties who are third parties to the conflict, who are not fighting with either side, but who
02:42have a shared interest in in protecting the the principle of freedom of navigation at sea. So
02:49NATO countries are doing something, but it's not as party to a conflict.
02:54Just finally, just so we understand the reconstruction and the construction of a two state solution.
02:59Is that going to be handled by the border peace with many legal questions around the role that
03:03President Trump plays? Or is this an international UN backed path?
03:08So the road to a one unified Palestinian state will be under the principles established by the UN
03:15over many years. And there are many countries that are strongly dedicated. Remember that almost 160
03:22countries have not recognized Palestine as a state. That is way more than three quarters of the
03:29membership of the UN. So this is clearly the world's view on this. There has to be a Palestinian state.
03:35It still takes time. But we need to ensure that that happens in such a way that we have one
03:40unified
03:40Palestine under a solid democratic governance, able to live in peace with its neighbor Israel. And
03:47it's not around the corner.
03:49The Israelis have said that not has been achieved. However, they say there's still terrorism operating
03:53and they have to leave in security. Are you taking in their feedback?
03:56Well, so we absolutely want to make sure that the people of Israel can live in peace as well,
04:03and that they can be free of terrorism from their neighborhoods. But then you also have to contribute
04:08to making your neighborhood the place where people like to live peacefully. So a two state solution under
04:14the auspices of the Palestinian government, with the rights and responsibilities that comes by being a
04:20state with adequate international support should be precisely the neighbor and partner that would make
04:26it possible to live peacefully and not in eternal war for Israel. So when we Norway for many years have
04:32dedicated so much work to the two state solution, we do it for Palestine, but we also do it for
04:38Israel
04:38because we remain convinced that in the long run, this is the only viable solution for real peace in a
04:45very
04:45troubled region.
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