- 1 day ago
Philosopher Stefan Molyneux breaks down Leroy and Sammy's veganism-triggered relationship conflict, unearthing childhood scars and value clashes to enforce clear communication and shared victory.
0:00:00 Introduction
0:00:59 Discussing Food Choices
0:02:17 The Impact of Animal Consumption
0:03:56 Clarifying the Purpose of the Call
0:04:44 Personal Perspectives on Food
0:06:24 The Role of the Soul
0:08:50 Exploring Childhood Experiences
0:13:13 Upbringing and Moral Lessons
0:16:44 Communication Challenges in Relationships
0:18:16 Navigating Relationship Dynamics
0:30:07 Budgeting for Food
0:32:51 Income Disparities
0:38:17 Balancing Contributions in Relationships
1:01:24 The Economics of Relationships
1:10:00 Ensuring Mutual Value in Partnerships
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0:00:00 Introduction
0:00:59 Discussing Food Choices
0:02:17 The Impact of Animal Consumption
0:03:56 Clarifying the Purpose of the Call
0:04:44 Personal Perspectives on Food
0:06:24 The Role of the Soul
0:08:50 Exploring Childhood Experiences
0:13:13 Upbringing and Moral Lessons
0:16:44 Communication Challenges in Relationships
0:18:16 Navigating Relationship Dynamics
0:30:07 Budgeting for Food
0:32:51 Income Disparities
0:38:17 Balancing Contributions in Relationships
1:01:24 The Economics of Relationships
1:10:00 Ensuring Mutual Value in Partnerships
GET FREEDOMAIN MERCH! https://shop.freedomain.com/
SUBSCRIBE TO ME ON X! https://x.com/StefanMolyneux
Follow me on Youtube! https://www.youtube.com/@freedomain1
GET MY NEW BOOK 'PEACEFUL PARENTING', THE INTERACTIVE PEACEFUL PARENTING AI, AND THE FULL AUDIOBOOK!
https://peacefulparenting.com/
Join the PREMIUM philosophy community on the web for free!
Subscribers get 12 HOURS on the "Truth About the French Revolution," multiple interactive multi-lingual philosophy AIs trained on thousands of hours of my material - as well as AIs for Real-Time Relationships, Bitcoin, Peaceful Parenting, and Call-In Shows!
You also receive private livestreams, HUNDREDS of exclusive premium shows, early release podcasts, the 22 Part History of Philosophers series and much more!
See you soon!
https://freedomain.locals.com/support/promo/UPB2025
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LearningTranscript
00:00:00there we go can you hello yes we can still hear you and now you can hear us yes i'm
00:00:05so sorry thank
00:00:06you very much for your patience i i do apologize i'm obviously all ears uh you had a very short
00:00:12request for a topic and i'm hearing a lot of background noise are you in a car or outside or
00:00:19uh does that make it better but yes we are relatively both of those and thank you for
00:00:26taking our call i'm sorry i'm just not sure what the background noise is because as a public call
00:00:31uh it's a little tough if there's a lot of background noise because people find it harder to
00:00:36hear i agree i i don't hear any any background noise oh at your end oh so you're just in
00:00:42a
00:00:42house or something like that uh no we're in the car right now but i'll pull off uh actually yeah
00:00:47we're on the interstate so it should be fine cellular quality but i'll pull off the next
00:00:52things and so then we can avoid do you hear some background background noise right now yeah
00:00:57there's background noise but okay so do you want to just start telling me what the issues are
00:01:04well i think um sammy and so we're using the name sammy and laroi for the purposes of the public
00:01:11call
00:01:11that you mentioned got it sammy and laroi so sammy i think is a little bit obsessive about food
00:01:20to talk about that i think um i like to talk about veganism and plant-based eating he's listening
00:01:29he said he's all ears yeah so usually he'll give people a few minutes to talk and then if he
00:01:34really
00:01:35wants to speak they'll cut you off and speak um i believe animals um should only be eaten sparingly
00:01:44and um like if it's something that'll be good for your health um but that too many americans consume
00:01:53way too many animal products and um it ultimately ends up bad for their health okay and uh is that
00:02:03a
00:02:03problem in your life as a whole uh or something like that it's a problem for the world from what
00:02:09it sounds like right like you did you want to tell him the problem it sounds like that's what he's
00:02:13asking
00:02:14for is a more full deep dive into this problem that you see in the world um well there's um
00:02:21animal
00:02:22consumption takes up most of the crops um in the world by the the grain that the um is
00:02:33planted for the animals to eat and um it leaves a lot of people hungry because they could be using
00:02:41that land to plant um food for themselves instead and there's so much meat that gets wasted and thrown
00:02:50away grocery stores um and things of that nature and it takes a lot of oh it sounds like sammy
00:02:58wants to
00:02:58give me a talk to that time to talk and i would like to respond if you don't mind stephan
00:03:03and sammy
00:03:04yeah sure are you guys close to the exit because again the background noise is quite high
00:03:08uh apologies i might have missed it so we don't even notice it so if there's is there a way
00:03:14that
00:03:14we can minimize the background noise let's see it says there's an exit coming up okay so sorry go ahead
00:03:21so we have some friends up in new england in vermont who are nudists out in the woods and they
00:03:27grow pigs and they just fence off an area in the woods to grow these pigs up to the slaughter
00:03:32and
00:03:32they harvest them for the meat sorry to interrupt sammy but that would be an example of crops not being
00:03:37grown specifically to feed the pigs and they use a lot of waste food like expired food from uh
00:03:41restaurants and and uh groceries and stuff like that sammy what do you think about that
00:03:47um i think that sounds like a really good way to consume the animal products if that's your choosing
00:03:56um okay i'm sorry to interrupt i'm a i'm a little confused about the purpose of the call
00:04:01is is it to debate veganism or is it because there are personal issues or i'm just not quite sure
00:04:07what
00:04:07we're doing as yet well steph there's been a perceived reality difference between us
00:04:16sammy and myself laroi and what we're doing right now is talking about a specific item
00:04:24that we have uh a different reality on does that make sense at all well yes but i'm just trying
00:04:31to
00:04:31figure out what input i can provide us yet and i'm not quite sure but just fine we're just getting
00:04:36to
00:04:36know each other so what uh what are the perceived reality differences uh what else do you have
00:04:44um okay so sammy it sounds like steph wants to direct the the call away from global problems and
00:04:51more towards personal problems how does how does this food choice difference of how people invest their
00:04:58time and effort into growing food because how is it personal for you um well um i believe animals have
00:05:10souls
00:05:11and um it's it hurts my heart to see a soul get wasted um for just to be thrown in
00:05:25a landfill
00:05:26and so um it's important to me that other people practice sustainability when they're consuming meat
00:05:38okay so our friends who harvest the pigs does it hurt your soul that they uh grow and harvest pigs
00:05:44in
00:05:44in the forest of vermont near canada there no i think that sounds wonderful actually and i'm sorry do
00:05:51plants have souls or insects or where does the soul so i think i think this whole reality has a
00:06:00um
00:06:00a purpose beyond the physical substance of the material in it including animals uh so in in that
00:06:08regard i think as as humans we have a calling to follow the holy spirit and the instructions from
00:06:15our creator to be good stewards of of this reality that i'm in with all of the substance in it
00:06:22to be
00:06:22essentially good stewards and specifically more tangibly you might hopefully be interested in hearing
00:06:29we we follow the the calling of the holy spirit towards uh sharing and propagating peace love and liberty
00:06:35among the world around us and that's um the three core principles that i think that we have a calling
00:06:42to follow it as as children of god essentially sorry i'm not sure i'm not sure if you heard my
00:06:49question
00:06:50i'd be happy to hear it again okay do uh plants have souls as well vegetables and and other forms
00:06:58of
00:06:58of plants and do insects have souls do lizards have souls do fish have souls i just want to make
00:07:04sure i
00:07:05understand where the soul aspect is or is not sammy i think that was more you're the one sammy brought
00:07:12up the issue of the soul do you want to talk about that or not she doesn't want to talk
00:07:16about that sorry
00:07:18i'm not sure why wouldn't we why wouldn't i'm not skeptical and i'm just just want to understand
00:07:22the thinking i mean obviously we don't want souls to be harmed for wasteful reasons i'm just not sure
00:07:29where the soul's thing is is it is it mammals uh is it uh other forms of animals and i'm
00:07:34not sure
00:07:34why we i'm not again i'm not trying to catch you up or criticize i just want to understand the
00:07:38belief
00:07:39system um so i was talking about my beliefs there that all the matter which is a minority of the
00:07:51existence if you look at the space between matter for example and the the other spaces that we don't
00:07:58have uh the perception to see so this physical matter is what we're most intimately connected to
00:08:05so we use it for this objective reality between us so that we can share a reality and as far
00:08:12as the
00:08:13connection between all matter in this universe that that we experience together i'd say there is a
00:08:19connection that could be described as as a soul that is able able to interact like the physical at the
00:08:29very least through um through an infinite web of connections i'd say all matter in this universe
00:08:36is connected and the the individual souls i guess of each piece of matter
00:08:43can enter enter interact so as far as the soul yeah we'd need to define soul is is what it
00:08:50sounds
00:08:50like stuff you're asking well i'm just trying to understand because we obviously can't exist as
00:08:54creatures without consuming organic matter so if it's not animals maybe it's lizards or if it's not
00:09:01mammals lizards or amphibians or fish or plants and so i i assume that and to me would be logical
00:09:08and
00:09:08i'm certainly happy to be corrected but i would assume that if it is wrong to eat creatures who
00:09:14have a soul then there must be organic matter that doesn't have a soul which i assume would be plants
00:09:18or maybe fish or or something like that seaweed of course right so i'm just trying to understand
00:09:24personal choice thinking so uh sammy and myself we we agree it's it's a personal choice how people
00:09:32interact in this world and um as far as i think she's more speaking to the the harm of of
00:09:41what a lot
00:09:41of people do with their choices as far as uh monocropping clearing land using pesticides and chemicals that
00:09:49are definitely toxic in larger quantities and so the only question is whether uh little of it
00:09:57is being used enough of a minimal harm so there's definitely harmful substances monocropping and
00:10:05then as far as from our shared perspective of of the shire society declaration and voluntarism
00:10:10there's the peace love and liberty aspects so for a large amount of of land for example to be
00:10:19displaced from its natural use the use that non-humans would have put it to i think that's a big
00:10:27cost
00:10:28um the liberty of humans to be able to travel and use that land um and of course the animals
00:10:34which
00:10:35would be displaced um so ideally what i think we wish the viewpoint we share is that nature
00:10:45and allowing as much of the of the natural use of land as possible would be optimal for the peace
00:10:51love
00:10:51and liberty of the most inhabitants around it um as as contrasted for example with with cities
00:10:57suburbs and the um i guess that the farms that that are monocropped for that are you remove they
00:11:06remove the forest am i making any sense to you guys i don't know well sure i'm i'm just trying
00:11:12to
00:11:12understand sammy why um why is it you didn't want to answer the question earlier about souls
00:11:20persistent um well maybe because it's fringe there's people out there that believe in in the
00:11:26crystals and and the frequencies and sorry was sammy the girlfriend or you or the wife um partner
00:11:36yeah yeah we're we're partners yeah i'm i'm it's a little tough to have a conversation if the first
00:11:41question i asked doesn't get answered and i've just no no but i was asking i was asking sammy
00:11:48and you said she doesn't want to answer and if she doesn't want to talk about as she yeah if
00:11:52she
00:11:52doesn't want to answer your question that's i think completely valid for a caller um and that
00:11:57you have a right if you want to talk about that you can do you want to take a few
00:12:00minutes to explain
00:12:01how frustrated you are that she's not answering your question no it's not frustrated it's just that
00:12:06if people don't answer questions it's kind of tough to have a conversation yeah and uh each of us
00:12:13yourself steph and myself can monologue and and you could argue that sammy gave a short monologue there
00:12:19about her perspective a little bit of an alternative belief on on life and the soul the consciousness that
00:12:26gets hurt by the monocropping and the um poor stewardship that a lot of humans are just looking
00:12:33no no i can't i can't do the the same monologue again so is is that an issue that you
00:12:39face this is
00:12:40to the boyfriend or partner is that an issue that you face that if you have a question she doesn't
00:12:47answer or doesn't want to talk about it is that part of the conflict that you're having or the lack
00:12:50of connection that you're having for sure yeah if i agree with you that if someone doesn't want to
00:12:56talk then then that's a verbal that that prevents some verbal intercourse to happen because verbal
00:13:05okay so that's fine sorry so sorry to interrupt so sammy let's i'll let you take it here yeah sorry
00:13:11sorry let's drop this whole thing that's that's totally fine can you tell me a little bit about
00:13:16your childhood and how you were raised it looks like she doesn't want to talk in your public call
00:13:22stuff i um yeah that's what the current state is well i'm i'm now very baffled i'm sorry did she
00:13:30not
00:13:30want to have the call at all um maybe not maybe uh she she wanted to talk about food and
00:13:41maybe she
00:13:42didn't want to dialogue uh as far as what you wanted to dialogue with her about well no but that's
00:13:48just
00:13:48kind of rude right i mean if you make a speech in a conversation then the person obviously can ask
00:13:56some clarifying questions to understand what you're saying better and then to withdraw from that is a
00:14:01little rude isn't it because then you're just saying well i have i have my way i have my speech
00:14:06and you
00:14:06can't ask me any questions that's not a dialogue that's just a speech it's a monologue right uh yes and
00:14:12no so steph uh you could argue yes that she gave a monologue yes you were allowed to ask questions
00:14:20no to your statement is clearly false that you can't ask questions obviously you can ask questions
00:14:26you ask questions so well yeah but if they don't get answered that's you're asking yes you can ask us
00:14:33questions but we reserve the right to not answer your questions okay but then it's not a conversation and
00:14:40i don't know how to have a conversation with somebody who doesn't who has a speech and i have
00:14:44questions about it so i can understand the mindset better and she just kind of shuts down that's kind
00:14:49of rude isn't it um yeah i guess you'd have to define the the burdens and obligations of people in
00:14:56a
00:14:56relationship like this well if you're going to engage in a conversation it's selfish to let not let the
00:15:02other person have a voice at all right it's it's selfish to say i want to talk about food and
00:15:08monoculture and and and animals have souls and you know i didn't criticize it i you know i'm happy to
00:15:14explore the idea and so if you say i'm going to engage in a conversation but then you completely shut
00:15:21down when the other person asks a question then it's kind of fraudulent because it's not you don't
00:15:25actually want to engage in a conversation you just want to have a monologue and you can't be questioned
00:15:29and you can't get any feedback and even friendly questions where i'm just trying to understand the
00:15:33mindset so well i'll i'd be happy to continue talking with you if you're willing to have
00:15:39conversations with me instead of a three-way okay can you tell me a little bit about your childhood
00:15:44and what you experienced growing up for sure so i come from predominantly european uh my my parent
00:15:55that raised me and my brother had a lot of italian influence from her parents and growing up so we
00:16:03ate a lot of pasta i remember this um parmesan spinach noodle soup that was really amazing that
00:16:12that we had was like a lipton package and then adding a frozen pack of spinach i'm so sorry i'm
00:16:17not exactly looking for the menu i'm just looking for your sort of personal experiences and particularly
00:16:22from a moral standpoint what kind of moral education did you get what kind of punishment
00:16:25did you get if any that kind of stuff uh so generally there's no punishment around food which is
00:16:30the subject of this conversation food so with food my parents and close relatives there is
00:16:38almost no limits i mean i really i apologize a million fold for being rude and interrupting you
00:16:45i'm really sorry about that but if the conversation is about your partner's issues with food and she
00:16:51doesn't want to talk about or talk with me which again is fine then i'm not sure why we would
00:16:56switch
00:16:56to your issues with food because you don't really have any issues with food does that make sense
00:16:59but like if you take your uh if you take your wife hang on if you take your wife to
00:17:04the doctor and
00:17:04you say um her elbow is really hurting but she won't let the doctor examine it then talking about
00:17:09your elbow doesn't make it much sense unless i'm missing something yeah so in order to discuss my
00:17:15partner's issues with food i would like to discuss the overlapping areas where her issues with food
00:17:22uh becomes involved with with my life so the topic is food and her issues with food but
00:17:30she won't talk about her issues with food or anything is that right that's the current status
00:17:35yeah i mean do you really think there's a point i'm not quite i'm again no no disrespect obviously
00:17:40you know people are free to talk to me or not talk to me that's totally fine but i'm also
00:17:44free to
00:17:45talk or not talk as well and i'm not really sure how we have a conversation about an issue if
00:17:50the
00:17:50person who has the issue doesn't want to talk uh well i have an issue with it and i was
00:17:55trying to
00:17:55talk about her issues with food and how it becomes an issue for me i apologize for yeah that's fine
00:18:00so
00:18:00yeah so so just tell me about your issues with her issues with food if that makes sense okay you
00:18:07want to just dive right in let's jump right into it like get into it just raw dog it all
00:18:12right i'm
00:18:12gonna get in well i mean it's been 25 minutes i think we should start yeah for sure but i
00:18:17also
00:18:18believe that the rules of this dialogue that we've been having for 25 minutes should be
00:18:22agreed to by all the participants and we did that so i'm gonna jump into my issues with food or
00:18:29specifically my issues with my partner's issues with food and how they overlap with my issues but
00:18:34so as i was saying i uh have eaten some really good food growing up as a child
00:18:42and sammy has obviously eaten a lot of good food because she likes to continue eating good food and
00:18:49um she will accumulate more good food that she can eat personally and then the food will go to waste
00:18:57and from my childhood um i guess my life it's like we try to portion out what we're gonna eat
00:19:06and then whatever you put on your plate is what you eat and then to leave food on your plate
00:19:12and
00:19:12throw it away is is almost like i said obviously it's not a sin but it's it's a waste of
00:19:17food and
00:19:17that's something she talked about in her monologue a little bit is how the waste i think she might
00:19:21have touched on that the waste of of um farming and whatnot so we share that uh belief that that
00:19:28wasting food to some extent uh could be bad as far as why it seems like she touched more on
00:19:35the wasting food might only be bad if it's like animals if the animals are being hurt and has souls
00:19:44are wasted whereas for my belief which i tried to explain a little bit was that wasting any kind of
00:19:50of uh value essentially like when you uh harvest value you don't put it on your plate and then throw
00:19:56it
00:19:56away now of course there's sacrifice which is a totally different subject um if you did want to accept
00:20:03that blood sacrifice specifically jesus christ being sacrificed for the sins that we've all made in
00:20:09life i'd be happy to discuss that also but did i touch on the my issues with her issues with
00:20:14food
00:20:14enough or do you want to explore any well is there is there conflict between you as a couple on
00:20:19the
00:20:19issues of food um well that overlaps with spending and so she'll spend all of her money buying things that
00:20:28are some of them are more quickly going to waste and then other might take a longer time but often
00:20:34go to waste so she doesn't like food waste and wastes food again i'm trying to follow here i mean
00:20:42nobody likes food waste and occasionally you forget about something in the back of the fridge or whatever
00:20:46so that's going to happen i think to just about anyone but i'm still trying to figure out what the
00:20:49subject of the call is is about well that's a good question i i don't think she minds if it's
00:20:55like
00:20:55vegan food that's wasted is is the issue so she will accumulate and buy vegan food and let it go
00:21:02to
00:21:02waste and she wants me to buy the same buy more of that um yeah the issue is is i
00:21:09don't eat a lot at
00:21:10one time and so um the roy um usually has no problem eating my leftovers that are not able to
00:21:21fit inside
00:21:22of my digestive system i'll be right back you two can talk for a minute please i'm sorry where are
00:21:28you
00:21:28going i'm gonna buy gas i'm parked at a gas pump so i'm gonna pay for the gas i'll stick
00:21:34the nozzle in
00:21:35it's really the strangest college show i think i've ever had that's fine that's fine uh okay sammy so
00:21:41do you want to tell me a little bit about your upbringing and what you experienced as a child
00:21:45um well i came from like a rather um redneck kind of family i guess you could say and they
00:21:57always
00:21:58told me that god put animals on this earth so we could eat them but as a child it just
00:22:04never felt
00:22:05right to me um so it's it's something that's always been with me of not eating animals just
00:22:11something that i felt like um worked for my soul and um i was shamed a lot for for choosing
00:22:20not to eat
00:22:21animals and um punished for for it as well um okay and uh how were you punished um like my
00:22:35father would
00:22:38um forcefully shove meat into my mouth because i didn't want to eat it oh gosh i'm so sorry so
00:22:46you
00:22:46would just jam food in your mouth and force you to chew or something like that yeah oh i'm so
00:22:52sorry
00:22:52that's just appalling uh you know it's it's so strange that the conflicts that parents get into
00:22:56with their children about food it's all this weird complicated half fascist control of the body and
00:23:01all that kind of stuff but i'm really sorry that's just this terrible terrible behavior in my view
00:23:06yeah thank you i appreciate um your kind words um were there other punishments in the house like
00:23:14spanking or switches or confinement or timeouts or something like that um yeah well i was i was left
00:23:22isolated a lot like uh my parents would lock me out of the house and then like go on vacation
00:23:29um
00:23:30so it was really like i was left to fend for myself um growing up as a child like i
00:23:36taught myself how to
00:23:37cook and um taught myself how to do basically everything um and um there was a lot of yelling
00:23:46in my household so as an adult i learned non-violent communication and how to um you know try to
00:23:55talk
00:23:56people down from their anger okay and what about your mom um what exactly about my mom um well your
00:24:05father was pretty aggressive the yelling and so on was your mom doing that or was she uh physically
00:24:10aggressive as a parent yeah she was um she um nobody in my family really understood my veganism but um
00:24:21um she would tell me that i was ruining her life because it was more challenging to try to eat
00:24:30plant-based and try to eat more holistic foods than going to your fast food restaurant all the time
00:24:36right okay and how often would you get punished as a child um i'm not sure exactly um
00:24:48it's i have a lot of ptsd so it's hard to remember my childhood um but i'm sorry is the
00:24:54ptsd from
00:24:55your childhood or other things yeah um ptsd from my childhood ptsd from military service and
00:25:07um abusive relationships oh so you were a vegan and it's an unusual combo to be a vegan and to
00:25:15go into
00:25:15the military um but okay and would you i mean just roughly was it like once a month once a
00:25:21week
00:25:21twice a year a daily just again i know it's hard to come up with exact figures but i'm just
00:25:26trying
00:25:26to get a rough sense uh that you would get punished as a child daily if you if you count
00:25:35um yelling as
00:25:37violence yeah so i mean you were aggressed against considerably like thousands of times as a child
00:25:44correct i'm so sorry that's you know i have a daughter myself and it's incomprehensible i don't
00:25:50i do not understand why parents do this kind of stuff it's it's so ridiculously unnecessary and
00:25:55counterproductive and immoral and so then did you join the military quite young um it's hard for me to
00:26:05talk about my military experience okay no problem and how many roughly how many abusive relationships
00:26:13would you say that you were in before you got into this one um just one really um i i
00:26:21was in a
00:26:22marriage for 10 years but talking about abusive relationships isn't really a subject that i would
00:26:28like to discuss right now sure what's your status of your relationship with your parents at the moment
00:26:34um i don't speak to my father and my mother and i are on pretty good terms are they still
00:26:41together
00:26:42no when did they split up um when when i was a young child so probably in like 1995
00:26:54okay all right were you in this you don't have to give me your age but you like in the
00:26:58single digits
00:26:58there correct okay got it and you know why they split up um it was just toxic um like i'm
00:27:09i'm not
00:27:10really anything like my family i guess you could say i was a black sheep of the family but um
00:27:15just a lot
00:27:16of aggression and anger and that's kind of all i i really knew growing up so as an adult i
00:27:23um really
00:27:24wanted to make my life more meaningful than than the ways i experienced as a child yeah quite wise and
00:27:33how long have you guys been together as a couple um we've been together for three months um but we've
00:27:41known each other a while okay and what was it that had tipped you over from friends to partners
00:27:51um well he's just a very intelligent swole and um i kind of fell in love with him the moment
00:28:00i met him
00:28:01and um yeah we've just been best friends ever since and sorry you because you knew each other before
00:28:08three months ago how long have you known each other four years wow and you fell in love with
00:28:13him four years ago you you're a patient soul to wait uh almost four years okay yeah thank you and
00:28:19uh what uh do you have you talked at all about sort of the purpose and long-term goal
00:28:24of your relationship um we have we've discussed marriage and do either of you have any kids
00:28:33yes um is that i mean if you don't want to talk about it that's fine is that you or
00:28:38your partner
00:28:39um yeah that's something i'd rather not discuss right now sure no problem okay and when you were
00:28:47friends did you have any particular conflicts over these kinds of issues or have they shown up more
00:28:53that you're dating um no we never really had conflicts like that um we get along quite nicely
00:29:03and we share a lot of similar values and goals okay and do you want to have any more kids
00:29:11um yes that's something that we've discussed okay got it and are you largely on the same page about
00:29:18peaceful parenting and this kind of stuff yes correct homeschooling all the all the tasty libertarian
00:29:25basis okay all right and if you do get in conflicts as a couple how often does that happen
00:29:35i'm not sure i really can say we're really working hard on developing our relationship and becoming
00:29:40stronger as a couple um so like focusing on the positives um and moving
00:29:47like forward in a peaceful manner is is really where i aim to be okay so you're getting along
00:29:56well as a couple you're both have similar values and you want kids you want to raise them
00:30:03peacefully i mean it sounds it sounds great thank you oh good good all right is there anything else
00:30:10that i can help you with yes um well frankly budgeting for food is i think one of these
00:30:20conflicts that i'd like to discuss i think uh sammy would like to budget closer to three thousand
00:30:27dollars a month on food where i would three thousand dollars i'm so sorry i'm sorry oh i'm so sorry
00:30:34that's fine i'm just the number is kind of staggering to me that's for two people
00:30:39two stuff i i didn't finish my sentence no no it's okay i'm allowed to express surprise in the middle
00:30:45of
00:30:45your sentence i'm just telling you my honest response so go ahead um so she's moved the needle i'll just
00:30:51say that currently i'm i'm at about a thousand that i think is is a better budget target okay
00:30:58sorry is there more that you want to add um i agree to that so she's agreed to a thousand
00:31:06oh i feel
00:31:08like i'm doing my you're doing my job without me which is which is great i don't mind sitting back
00:31:12and watching it happen that we'll set a thousand dollar a month cap on uh dining at restaurants and
00:31:20food and groceries and all of that correct that includes money that either one of us spends on
00:31:27food a thousand dollars a month i'm sorry uh are you guys living together have you pooled your
00:31:34finances i mean how does how is that working um sam sammy spends all of her money very on whatever
00:31:43she wants to spend it on and then she asked me to spend my money on whatever she wants me
00:31:47to spend
00:31:48it on did you hear me hello i did sorry i just i think i heard sammy laughing and i
00:31:53wasn't sure if she
00:31:53wanted to add something yeah that was her laughing yeah that uh doesn't sound like you say it as a
00:32:03bad
00:32:03thing well i don't know stuff did it sound like i was saying it as a bad thing well i
00:32:10mean are you
00:32:11guys living together uh well we we live next to each other yeah okay and have you pooled your finances
00:32:18finances no no okay and do you have again don't get into details do you have different incomes or
00:32:26assets uh yeah obviously stuff it's it's it's it's not obvious i'm just finding out for the first
00:32:35order of magnitude where she gets very limited uh monthly allowance um and i've got i i'm i have the
00:32:43ability to budget more every month then she she does a magnitude more okay so you have like five
00:32:49times her income or three times or 10 times uh yeah like 10 times okay so you have you have
00:32:5410 times
00:32:55her income and she wants to i'm so sorry go ahead let's just call it 100 times just to make
00:33:01it more
00:33:01clear 101 you have a 100 times her income i think that would be the the best um description yeah
00:33:10all
00:33:11right okay so you have 100 times her income and she wants to spend more than her income
00:33:17and and include your income in her spending and i'm sorry to talk to you talk about you sammy like
00:33:22you're not here feel free to interject but is that is that the situation
00:33:28uh i don't think she has any disagreement with that description except for that it what did you say
00:33:34uh it makes you sound bad or something um well i don't think so i mean i'm so sorry
00:33:40you're about to say oh yeah no i was gonna agree with you thank you okay yeah so i mean
00:33:46why do men
00:33:48make more money in general because that's how we've evolved because we have to pay for a wife and kids
00:33:54right i mean you know the sort of meme about the bachelor who lives on a futon and has the
00:34:01tv stand on
00:34:02the box that came in right i mean men are satisfied with relatively little but uh why so but we
00:34:09have we
00:34:09make 10 times what we need for ourselves so that we can provide for a wife and children so the
00:34:15fact
00:34:15that you as the man are expected to spend more in the relationship is reasonable of course if there's
00:34:23going to be a wife and kids if that makes sense which is generally why people get married pool their
00:34:29finances they know they're committed they are husband and wife they start making kids and it's
00:34:33not much of an issue because if a woman is raising you know three kids four kids or however many
00:34:38then she can't work for money outside the home but the husband is like well i i go out and
00:34:44i i hunt and
00:34:45and you raise the kids and i go out and i make money and and you raise the kids and
00:34:49i mean there's not
00:34:50much point as a man dying with a bunch of money in the bank and no children right that doesn't
00:34:54make any
00:34:54any sense as a whole so yeah so the fact that you as the man make a lot of money
00:34:58and and she wants to
00:35:00spend some of that money i i think it kind of aligns with our evolution as a whole if that
00:35:06makes sense
00:35:07yes so then it comes down to contracts like we were discussing a little bit about the monthly food
00:35:12budget and there was a specific day this week a few days ago where i gave her a hundred dollars
00:35:18to go to and from a meeting that she had because the car could use some gas and i think
00:35:25the car
00:35:26couldn't have taken more than 20 bucks or 30 bucks of gas and i'd like to hear sammy explain where
00:35:31she
00:35:31spent the hundred bucks if you're willing to indulge me if you two are willing to and the rest of
00:35:37the
00:35:37world that's listening yeah um so when you first gave me the hundred dollars you told me i could keep
00:35:43whatever change was there and so i got gas in the car which was like 35 and then i i
00:35:54got coffee and
00:35:55breakfast which i brought some back to you and then after bible study i got lunch exactly and that was
00:36:05how much did you spend on the the food there um well i spent um i believe about 40 dollars
00:36:20and you told me i could keep the rest of the change so you kept 25 bucks yeah okay so
00:36:27that's the
00:36:28difference i guess so if you spend 40 dollars on breakfast and lunch you extrapolate that out for
00:36:3430 days that's 1200 a month right and that doesn't even include dinner so i guess going forward we're
00:36:41gonna try to stick to the thousand dollar a month budget is that right well if you're willing to
00:36:46spend 3 000 and that's what you would like to do then have i talked to you guys before
00:36:56yeah i i called in a few years ago okay yeah just it's just okay all right so so sammy
00:37:03i mean
00:37:04if if you want him to spend a lot of extra money on you i mean which is fine uh
00:37:09but what does what do
00:37:11you provide in return i mean because otherwise you're both providing equal stuff but he has to
00:37:17spend thousands of dollars a month more on you and so in terms of like equality of trade the traditional
00:37:24trade is the man spends his money on his wife and children and his wife raises his children and
00:37:31runs the household and and frees him up to be more productive out in the world and so on
00:37:36so i think if i understand the general issue correctly then leroid do you feel like you are
00:37:45getting equal value for what you're spending in the relationship in some other way and it can't be sex
00:37:50of course because sex is mutual and it can't be companionship because companionship is mutual so
00:37:56where is sammy's generosity significantly in excess of yours because if you're very generous with your
00:38:02money then she needs to be very generous with something else otherwise it feels a bit humiliating
00:38:06like women are always concerned that they're going to be chosen for sexual access and men are always
00:38:11concerned that they're going to be chosen for financial uh means uh and so on so uh this is to
00:38:17you
00:38:17leroid in what areas do you find that sammy's generosity matches what you're providing financially
00:38:25um uh generosity i guess i guess well because she's the idea is that because you make a hundred times
00:38:33more than she does that you're more generous with your finances which is fine but where is she
00:38:37more generous in return or in response i mean is your house a paradise is she fixing it all up
00:38:42does
00:38:43she do all the housework does she run all the bills and and free you up like is there an
00:38:47excess of
00:38:48generosity on sammy's part to match what your excess of generosity is or significant generosity maybe
00:38:55not an excess right is there more generosity on sammy's part in some other area to match the generosity
00:39:00of the finances um no i don't think there's any additional contribution from her uh that is more
00:39:10than i guess you she could look at it this way the fraction of my income that i spend on
00:39:17her
00:39:18is about equal to the fraction of her income that she spends on me so that's no but that doesn't
00:39:23that
00:39:24doesn't i mean that doesn't really matter right i mean if i'm going into business with someone and we
00:39:29both have to put a million dollars in right and i have a million dollars and he has a thousand
00:39:34dollars
00:39:35and he says well i'll put a thousand dollars in that's a hundred percent of what i have and you
00:39:40put a million dollars in that's a hundred percent of what you have therefore a hundred equals a hundred
00:39:43and therefore it's the same come on you you know we know that's not that's not the case the
00:39:48percentages don't matter at all as far as that goes so look it's pretty easy sammy you just have to
00:39:53find some way that you're going to benefit leroy to the point where he's the money is fine you just
00:39:59have to you know do something that's going to be a value and benefit to him to to match
00:40:04uh the finance additional finances that he's putting in and you know you're intelligent
00:40:09people and so you can sort that out so you know you just have to figure out what you can
00:40:15do that's
00:40:15going to be a value to him so that he's the money is is not an issue if that makes
00:40:20sense yeah i do
00:40:22believe i provide a lot of value to him i'm i basically you know do all of the routines that
00:40:29a
00:40:29housewife does um i like to serve him and um just honor him and um respect his rules and boundaries
00:40:40and um honestly give him everything that he asks for okay hold on sorry hang on sorry so i'm so
00:40:47sorry
00:40:47leave just hold your thought for a second i apologize so uh sammy uh how much how many hours a
00:40:53week would
00:40:53you say you spend on you know housework and cooking and cleaning and laundry and whatever
00:40:59else you're doing uh to to match his generosity financially i would say about 40 hours a week
00:41:07i mean that's that's quite high if there's just the two of you isn't it i mean what are you
00:41:11going
00:41:11to do if you have kids be 80 hours a week i mean are you doing you're doing 40 hours
00:41:14so eight hours a
00:41:15day five days a week you are spending uh on on housework and bills and laundry and cleaning and
00:41:24cooking and shopping and i mean you know i mean it's not not small but but i just want to
00:41:28make
00:41:28sure i'm clear so it's 40 hours a week i think she might be including some recreational activities i
00:41:38take her to well no no i'm talking about the work right the stuff that we're gonna go play games
00:41:44tonight and eat dinner and would you count that as is the 40 hours um i would count that as
00:41:51leisurely
00:41:52activity of spending time with you so what's the 40 hours then um as we just discussed cooking food
00:42:01doing chores around the house um picking out your clothes when you asked me to um yeah things
00:42:11come on that's that's not 40 hours a week with all due respect i mean i just i can't see
00:42:14how that
00:42:15all adds and also if that's if it's 40 hours a week to care for one guy then if you
00:42:20guys have kids
00:42:20then then what i mean that's way more yeah it's very high maintenance being a mom is a 24 7
00:42:28job
00:42:28i know that it is it is because you've always got to be on call but okay well leroy do
00:42:34you agree
00:42:34with her assessment of 40 hours a week um maybe in her head like she no no do you agree
00:42:42with it not
00:42:43in her head do you agree with it uh i i can't disagree with it okay so if she's work
00:42:50if she's
00:42:51taking 40 hours of labor away from you and making your house beautiful and you're skating through uh
00:42:56doing doing your thing and you don't have to worry about any or any or many house things is that
00:43:02not
00:43:02worth the extra money that you're spending i'm not saying whether it should or shouldn't i'm just
00:43:06curious yes i i appreciate you helping bolster her support for a higher food budget every month
00:43:15well no that's not i mean my question is is the work that she's doing roughly equal or compensating
00:43:24for the extra money that you're putting in at the moment uh yeah no i said like a 1000 and
00:43:29was my
00:43:30that i've moved the needle it started out like less than that but anyway um and she's i think
00:43:37currently around the 3000 a month you know a hundred dollars a day 30 days about 3000 a month
00:43:43goal for her and then for me i've moved it to we just earlier in this conversation negotiate a
00:43:51thousand dollars a month and yes i think a thousand dollars a month is definitely reasonable for her
00:43:56contributions in the domestic services area okay so if it's 3000 a month wouldn't that be eating out
00:44:02a lot yes okay but if sorry sorry to seek the obvious but if you're eating out a lot then
00:44:09that's
00:44:09not 40 hours a week in food prep right which are you including the driving and um ordering and
00:44:17researching what food to eat when we eat out yeah she's just probably including all of that no no no
00:44:22yeah come on it's if you're eating out that's not how yeah i agree i agree it's not okay so
00:44:28uh and
00:44:29of course you don't have maids or or anything like that i assume so um and and how big is
00:44:34the place that
00:44:35you live in is it a house a single house how many bedrooms is it a smaller place a condo
00:44:40or apartment or
00:44:40or what's the size of the place that you live in 1500 or so square feet and it's a house
00:44:46pretty much
00:44:47yeah okay so um you have a house guest if did you have a house guest at the moment
00:44:54i'd rather not get into that okay it's totally fine all right so it's not a massive mansion that
00:44:59she's taking care of there aren't any kids um i assume well i don't know if there's a lot of
00:45:04entertaining but entertaining can be very time consuming uh my my wife is greek and therefore
00:45:08whenever we entertain it's a it's a production of a cecil b de mill uh size scope and budget and
00:45:15so
00:45:16so it seems like if there's if you're just taking care of one guy in a relatively small house and
00:45:21you
00:45:21eat out a lot i still you know i don't want to haggle about the 40 hours i personally can't
00:45:26see
00:45:26how you get there um yeah and of course some of it you'd have to do yourself right so women
00:45:31will
00:45:31sometimes say um well but i have to vacuum and it's like well you have to vacuum if you lived
00:45:36alone
00:45:37too right i mean so there's some stuff that i have to do dishes well you know there'll be a
00:45:41few more
00:45:41dishes but you still have to do dishes when you live at home so alone right so
00:45:45sorry go ahead i'm not sure if sammy is comfortable getting into it but she has no not
00:45:51felt obligated to put in any significant work for herself in in her past living situations
00:45:57not felt obligated so she didn't have to wipe down the counters or clean the bathrooms or
00:46:03correct dishes or correct what mean prison never mind don't don't answer
00:46:12okay all right but but i mean then the natural state of things is everybody has to do housework
00:46:18right i mean that's just life i'd say so but so i'd say this is a huge step up and
00:46:24compared to how i've
00:46:25seen her live in the past um comfortable like she was a little bit of a uh i wouldn't say
00:46:31she was a
00:46:31little bit not quite so fussy with her personal standards of like something like that yeah my
00:46:38standards aren't i i would say uh so for her to have been below my standards i don't know i'd
00:46:46say
00:46:46i'm like 50 percent of population wise cleanliness roughly the the median or whatever but anyway so
00:46:52she was below that i would say okay sure so let me ask you this right are you aware or
00:46:58do you feel
00:46:58how many hours of labor sammy is removing from you every week um yeah that's that's significant which
00:47:09is why i'm i i feel like i'm pretty negotiable on these subjects but i just want to say please
00:47:14let me
00:47:14say um that i think most of the work she does is like mental and in her mind and it
00:47:21doesn't involve
00:47:21a lot of elbow grease not the kind of work that men think of but maybe emotional work would be
00:47:27another way of putting it so she feels like she's doing 40 hours of work every week don't speak for
00:47:32her because i was asking about housework and stuff and i don't know exactly how to measure thinking
00:47:37about the relationship or being some kind of pseudo therapist i don't know how to measure any of that
00:47:41because that's not objective but with regards to just like you you how much time did you spend
00:47:47on maintaining the home and house and cooking and cleaning and you know shopping and like how
00:47:53much time are you spending a week before she moved in and or lived next door and how much time
00:48:00are you
00:48:00spending now like if it's gone from i used to spend 20 hours it's gone down to like nothing then
00:48:04that's
00:48:04plus 20 hours it used to 40 now it's 20 well you know what i mean like so how much
00:48:08time is being saved
00:48:10by having sammy do this you know excellent and important work around the house um well value wise
00:48:17no no just hours just hours i i can't measure value in hours because it's so subjective because the
00:48:24amount of hours no the hours aren't subjective i'm so sorry the hours aren't subjective right so if you
00:48:29see if you used to spend three hang on if you used to spend two or three hours a day
00:48:32you know shopping
00:48:33and cooking and cleaning up for your meals and now that's all handled by by sammy then that's two to
00:48:38three hours that has been freed up for you to do more productive things that's generally how
00:48:42couples work that if you have a high earning man then the woman does the stuff that is uh quote
00:48:48lower
00:48:48in economic value but what that does is it adds to the overall household income right so uh for example
00:48:55if if the wife um spends two hours a day and frees up the man to spend two hours a
00:49:02day working
00:49:03and he makes five hundred dollars an hour takes some crazy number then then the family is up a
00:49:08thousand dollars a day because the woman is doing the housework and therefore she gets some portion
00:49:13of that money you could say half or whatever because that money is only coming in because she's doing
00:49:17the work and so that's generally what happens is she would do the work that would make less money or
00:49:24no money and then you would be freed up to do whatever it is you do that gives you the
00:49:28hundred
00:49:28times income if that makes sense uh yeah so i'd say uh five hours a week or more might be
00:49:37a little
00:49:37generous so she uh being there cuts the work that you do around the house by about five hours a
00:49:45week
00:49:46i i'd say that might be a generous estimate well i just i just have to tell me what is
00:49:51the reasonable
00:49:52estimate a generous estimate is not super helpful stuff i've i've been so blessed with sammy
00:49:58here helping me uh that before then i it's difficult for me to think about the the work i did
00:50:06and on a
00:50:07weekly basis uh i'd rather just not get into that that bad space i was in having to do my
00:50:15own dishes
00:50:15and stuff like that okay so she's doing 20 hours a month and how much extra are you spending as
00:50:21a
00:50:21result of her being in the environment um like not just food but the whole thing uh so i'd say
00:50:29maybe at least like 2000 a month extra maybe three or four or more would be which and then actually
00:50:37we got this big ticket item but it's it's kind of mutual expenses but your question um so this month
00:50:44it's gonna be probably six thousand like five or six thousand extra this month okay so if she's doing
00:50:5220 hours a week and you're spending five thousand extra then she's being paid 250 an hour that sounds
00:50:59about right okay i mean there is of course a bit of a difference between five hours a week which
00:51:04is
00:51:04your estimate and her estimate of 40 hours a week although i suppose her estimate is how much time
00:51:09she puts in and your estimate is how much time it saves you sure and the closer you can make
00:51:14those
00:51:14numbers the better i'm so sorry go ahead well there's a lot of subjective values is the problem
00:51:20as far as nailing it down to a specific amount there's not a free market for um household companions
00:51:27and domestic work where wait hang on of course there is sorry to be annoying but you can hire cooks
00:51:34and
00:51:34maids and and all that sort of stuff you can hire people to do your taxes you can hire people
00:51:39to i mean you can even hire people to chat with the you know therapists or whatever right so
00:51:42so yeah there certainly is a market for these things uh of course it doesn't come with love
00:51:47companions and sex and and all of that sort of stuff but as far as the labor goes around the
00:51:51house
00:51:51oh absolutely that's a that's a huge market uh yeah so i think 250 an hour sounds reasonable
00:51:58compared to the amount that the free market would provide the services yeah sorry you think that
00:52:04maids and cooks make 250 an hour um well not so you're right actually and that's why food is the
00:52:12subject of of our interest in discussing it because i have no interest in paying her in the food realm
00:52:21because of various differences that i'm fine cooking my own food and buying my own food uh so in that
00:52:28regard and so then you could basically take off um and and that's another thing so you the expenses
00:52:34are shared expenses that she's convinced me to spend money on while it is additional expenses
00:52:41we both enjoy a lot of those expenses so about half of that would be so you can say it's
00:52:46it's mutual the
00:52:47benefit of these expenses so it might be 125 an hour it could be a reasonable estimate get people to
00:52:53come
00:52:53to where i live and do these things okay so the way that the economics of it's very interesting
00:53:00topic the way that the economics of a relationship work is you have to take sex companionship and love
00:53:06out of the equation completely and the reason for that is i'm sure sammy and not that i would ever
00:53:12think that this would ever cross your mind but men find it extremely humiliating to have to pay
00:53:19for sex and again i'm not saying this is part of the relationship i'm not saying this is on
00:53:23anyone's mind but in order for the economics of a relationship to have to work to work and to be
00:53:31fair sexuality romance love companionship conversation blah blah blah those have to be
00:53:39taken completely out of the equation because of course and again i'm not saying this is part of your
00:53:45relationship but if there was some woman who said to a man well you have to pay me five thousand
00:53:50dollars a month because i sleep with you i mean that would be i mean obviously gross and and and
00:53:54again i'm not saying that's part of the relationship so when it comes to adding value in a relationship
00:54:00and of course we all want to add value we want to receive value and we have a innate sense
00:54:04of fairness
00:54:05and so on so you have to take the sex love companionship conversation all of that has to be taken
00:54:13out
00:54:13of the equation and because it's humiliating to put it in right because then the man might feel like
00:54:19he's paying extra money just to have sexual access which is really bad that's really bad and toxic and
00:54:25again i'm not saying it's part of the relationship so you have to look at it like it's a business
00:54:28arrangement because it is because sex is not part of it sex is like mutual and and all of that
00:54:34so
00:54:35you have to look and say okay i am paying extra for a woman to be in my life and
00:54:45that's fine again
00:54:46that's that's totally fine but it sure as hell can't be paying for sex and it can't be paying for
00:54:51companionship and i'm here and i listen and blah blah blah i think about the relationship like you
00:54:55don't know everybody thinks about their relationships that's everybody works in relationships that's
00:54:59inevitable that's natural so it has to be like roommates as far as economics go because you have
00:55:09to take the sex and the love out of the equation because otherwise you're paying for sex or love or
00:55:15something like that which is wrong so if sammy was a roommate right if there was no sex involved
00:55:24if sammy was a roommate would you be spending three thousand dollars a month on food it sounds
00:55:33like you're asking me thank you for the question so i want to give you an example this morning she
00:55:39was
00:55:39really sweet there's these dates that were dried and uh she cut them open there's no seeds in them
00:55:46and she stuffed them with peanut butter and sprinkled chocolate on them and so as we've been out this
00:55:53morning we actually haven't spent any money i don't think on food except for what we had already
00:55:59bought like i described there it sounded like you were eating earlier would you mind sharing your own
00:56:03personal experience with food today so i and as far as that goes i didn't spend anything extra today
00:56:10sorry i did she she doesn't want to answer is that right it's fine if she doesn't i just you
00:56:15asked
00:56:15her a question and then you just moved on and if she doesn't want to answer that's fine i just
00:56:18wanted
00:56:19to check what was happening well i i'm asking you you a question steph uh as far as what you
00:56:22had for
00:56:23lunch so i to answer your question i haven't spent anything extra today on food that we hadn't
00:56:27already bought um and then i'm asking you what you had for lunch while we were talking on the phone
00:56:31here well what i've had for i had a piece of bread with some almond butter okay so that's similar
00:56:37very
00:56:37similar to the the almond butter with the peanut butter and no no it's not sorry it's not i mean
00:56:42you
00:56:43it sounds like you have a lovely date thing with chocolate and i just because i have calls i have
00:56:47calls all day today so i just had to grab a a quick bite uh and so i just put
00:56:53some butter on a
00:56:53piece of bread and put some almond butter on and kind of wolf it down while listening so uh it's
00:56:58not
00:56:59i i sort of did it all myself and and it's not something wasn't prepared for me if that makes
00:57:03sense
00:57:05yes and i don't know what what is the value difference there between what i got from sammy and
00:57:13what you made for yourself i'm not sure what you mean well what's the value difference of
00:57:19somebody making you a sort of special treat and they're just wolfing down a piece of bread
00:57:22with some spread on it what do you mean what's the i mean think of those two things in a
00:57:26restaurant
00:57:26who would pay more for what would you have a restaurant where it's like okay here's some bread
00:57:30uh you have to bring your own bread you have to bring your own peanut butter or whatever and
00:57:34and you got to put the two together and eat it as opposed to uh someone's going to bring you
00:57:38these lovely little stuff date things i mean the value difference would be i'm sorry i'm not sure
00:57:43what you're asking of course the value difference would be extraordinary right yeah so i was just
00:57:48saying there's so today i didn't spend anything she put in some some time investment preparing the
00:57:55food the nice treat and okay i can't do this daily thing because i'm asking a more general question
00:58:01and the general question which i asked was if you take the sex love and romance out of the
00:58:08relationship if this was just a roommate would you be happy spending five thousand three thousand
00:58:14four thousand dollars a month extra on your roommate in return for the five hours of labor a week that
00:58:20you say you're receiving would you be happy to pay a roommate two hundred and fifty dollars an hour
00:58:25to do the services and the labor and the effort that sammy is providing thank you uh so no i
00:58:33think
00:58:33the specific thing that's missing is more better accounting so i would like hang on hang on so so that's
00:58:42why you're dissatisfied yeah yeah i mean i love my wife we've been married for 24 years and you know
00:58:51the work that she does around the house is fantastic i like i've never have any doubt about
00:58:56the value that she is providing and so if you i think your concern is that if you say well
00:59:04i am
00:59:06making additional financial considerations i'm paying thousands and thousands of dollars a month
00:59:11extra basically because we're having sex because if she was just a roommate or you know you guys were
00:59:18friends for four years now you've been together three months so if sammy was just a roommate
00:59:24just a friend let's say she had a boyfriend and she there was no sexual access or maybe she was
00:59:29a
00:59:29lesbian or something like there was no possibility of romance and she said well i'll i'll be around and
00:59:35i'll do five hours of work a week for you for three or four or five thousand dollars a month
00:59:41would you take that deal um only if the accounting showed like if she did some better accounting for
00:59:49the last month and no no no come on no no it's not accounting sorry sorry to be annoying i
00:59:53really
00:59:54apologize for interrupting it's a clear question if sammy was a roommate would you spend three or four
01:00:01or five thousand dollars extra a month in return for the work you get from her at five hours a
01:00:07week
01:00:07would you pay a roommate two hundred and fifty dollars an hour for the services that sammy
01:00:12provides to you nothing to do with sex if she was just a roommate
01:00:20um of course you wouldn't i mean let's you can hedge if you want but just for the sake of
01:00:23of course you wouldn't and so then the question is if you wouldn't do this with a roommate
01:00:28why would you do it with sammy and the only difference of course is that you're getting sex
01:00:34and companionship and you know all of that but you'd get some companionship and conversation and
01:00:38affection from a roommate too right so the one fundamental difference since a roommate can chat
01:00:44with you probably wouldn't be a whole lot of cuddling but you know what i mean like but but the
01:00:49difference is is sexuality and so as a man i'm telling you you don't want to be paying for sex
01:00:57and
01:00:57again i'm not saying you are but what i'm saying is that if there is a perception that you have
01:01:03to
01:01:03pay extra with the sole differentiating factor between a roommate and a girlfriend is sexual
01:01:08access then you want to nip that in the bud because you don't want to feel ever like you're paying
01:01:15for
01:01:16sex like you have to spend money for the sole reason that sex is involved because that obviously
01:01:23cheapens everything you know that sort of classic meme where the guy has to bring i'm not saying this
01:01:28is you guys you know it's kind of a classic meme i just use this for illustrative purposes but you
01:01:34the man says i have to be rich and i have to be educated and i have to be tall
01:01:40and i have to be good
01:01:41looking and i have right this is all the things i this is what i have to bring to the
01:01:44table
01:01:45as you know that cliche about what some women say they bring to the table they say i don't bring
01:01:51anything to the table i am the table and again i'm not saying this is the case with you guys
01:01:56but the idea that the man has to pour a lot of extra effort time money and energy into a
01:02:02relationship
01:02:03because the woman offers up sex which is mutually beneficial and fun for you both and and so on
01:02:08is is bad so when you are looking at the analysis of the economics of the relationship you must must
01:02:17must
01:02:17take sex out of the equation and you have to say if there was no sex involved would i be
01:02:25paying all
01:02:25of this and if the answer is i wouldn't then then the woman needs to address that lack of value
01:02:33perception and and either as you maybe this is to a comment about the accounting maybe what sammy needs
01:02:38to do is to say look maybe you're not aware of all the value i'm providing and you know it's
01:02:45pretty
01:02:46easy you just you just keep a little note a little notebook or you can put it in your phone
01:02:50or
01:02:50something i did this i did this so that you can exactly yeah so you can show show the value
01:02:55and then
01:02:56if you i mean that's a certain lack of trust there but that's okay i mean you guys are three
01:03:00months into
01:03:00a romantic relationship but if you have if she can prove the 40 hours right if she can prove the
01:03:0740 hours
01:03:09then the hourly equation and and it's not just that she works for 40 hours but let's say she reduces
01:03:16your um time requirements for housework and so on by by 30 hours a week right so uh if we
01:03:25look at
01:03:26that right then if you spend say four thousand dollars and she's saving you a hundred and twenty hours
01:03:35a month uh that's way better right because then you're not paying her 250 dollars an hour uh you're
01:03:42paying her you know 30 40 dollars an hour which is uh i assume much more reasonable because you are
01:03:48giving it's the same reason like um i i don't uh i don't know whatever it is i don't uh
01:03:55um i can't
01:03:57think of one a friend of mine he doesn't pay to mow his own lawn because he makes good money
01:04:01and he
01:04:02says look it makes more sense for me to pay someone to mow my lawn because in the two hours
01:04:08it takes to mow my lawn i could be making x y and z money that's more than i pay
01:04:14the guy to mow my lawn
01:04:14right differentiation just division of labor stuff like michael jordan doesn't do his own typing
01:04:19kind of thing and and donald trump doesn't do his own taxes he pays other people because he's making
01:04:24more money doing like not learning how to do his taxes than he would be paying people to do his
01:04:29taxes
01:04:30so if sammy is providing a lot of value and freeing you up to do whatever magic money making
01:04:35stuff you've got going on fantastic then then the value proposition is square and clear and and so
01:04:42on but yeah again you have to scrub sex from the equation because that's uh that's not emotionally
01:04:49sustainable to to even have the feeling that you might be paying for sex all right how's how's that
01:04:55for a decent convo for you guys um well i i appreciate you sharing your perspective
01:05:04i feel like it's really hyper focused on on the sex and the um male female value exchange the conjugal
01:05:15no i'm sorry i gotta disagree with you it's not hyper focused i'm saying take it completely out of the
01:05:21equation how can you say that it's hyper focused on sex when i'm saying take sex out of the equation
01:05:25completely i'm saying remove sex completely as a variable how can that be hyper focused on sex
01:05:33um because there's a lot of other aspects of this relationship to focus on as far as the food
01:05:39dynamic goes other than what needs to be removed from the calculations so the specific calculations
01:05:47themselves i was trying to focus on the subjective specific value being exchanged the ratio of the
01:05:55values as a part of each of our lives um so different types of value obviously time labor is different
01:06:02from
01:06:03currency and so right and so sorry so so let's say that you make only two hundred dollars an hour
01:06:13but your girlfriend or partner doing work costs you 250 dollars an hour then you're down 50 dollars an
01:06:22hour exactly and but let's say that she makes you make two hundred dollars an hour and she frees you
01:06:29up
01:06:29so that you get 30 hours extra a week and she's making 50 dollars an hour you're paying her 50
01:06:37dollars an hour in a sense you're making 200 so you're up 150 dollars an hour right yeah times
01:06:4530 hours a week that's 4500 a week that you're making extra you know times that by four you're up
01:06:54eighteen thousand dollars on a spend of a couple of k so that's that's a net benefit for you both
01:07:00and
01:07:00then you both have a share in that money because she's freeing you up to make it if that makes
01:07:05sense
01:07:06whereas if whereas if you make 200 dollars an hour but you're paying her 250 dollars an hour
01:07:10why are you paying her more and i for a lot of couples the only difference is is sex which
01:07:16again i
01:07:16you have to take completely out of the equation so that's why i think there's resistance to spending
01:07:23more money on the relationship is because either rightly or wrongly you don't perceive the value
01:07:30to be coming back in other words it's costing you money to be in the relationship rather than the
01:07:34relationship help make you money or you know again it's not like having children makes you a bunch of
01:07:39money but it's very satisfying and emotionally rewarding and great and lineage and blah blah blah
01:07:43so that that has a value that is not dollar based uh and so on right so i think that
01:07:50the conflict is
01:07:50basically just that uh you leroy do not perceive that our good friend sunny is uh providing enough
01:07:57value and either that's because she's not providing enough value or you're not clear about the value she is
01:08:02providing and you just need to sort that out thank you and there is an overlapping interest of ours
01:08:09um not just around food we discussed a little bit um that she would be she would actually change
01:08:15her vegan her her vegan i guess exclusions of meat she's willing to change and we could incorporate
01:08:25that into our our lifestyle like our friends who who sustainably harvest the the pigs the pork and
01:08:30then um even there's other animals that could be sustainably harvested like wild turkey and
01:08:37i think she's mentioned wanting to bag a deer so i think that that's a great share value but i'm
01:08:47sorry
01:08:47to sidetrack it we were talking about domestic services for value change as far as reducing the amount of
01:08:54um work that i have to do increasing the value the free value coming into my life by having her
01:09:00around
01:09:01yeah and economics is very interesting um can be complicated it it certainly can be
01:09:09tough because it feels they're very materialistic and dollar based and how could you put a price on
01:09:13it's like yeah but we do put prices on things uh food costs money gas costs money uh eating out
01:09:19costs
01:09:19money rent costs money so um it it is an interesting challenge in relationships to figure out mutual value
01:09:27especially when as you say you make a hundred times more than your partner does so these are just the
01:09:36interesting conversations interesting you want to be generous with your money and uh you know to to
01:09:43your lovely partner's uh credit she wants to be generous with the value that she provides so you
01:09:49just need to find a way to measure that come to some kind of rough agreement and then you will
01:09:54both be
01:09:54better off by being with each other and your relationship will be wealthier and stronger because
01:09:59it's mutual advantage and if one person feels like it's not uh equal then you just need to have
01:10:06those conversations about how to make things more equal and it is a real challenge when there's a big
01:10:11wealth and asset disparity for sure thank you you are very welcome and i appreciate the call and i
01:10:18hope you guys will keep me posted about how it's going and thank you for uh for both of you
01:10:24i guess
01:10:24it was a bit a bit more awkward for your partner and i sympathize with that it's a strange situation
01:10:29to
01:10:29be talking and uh you know disemboweling your life uh to some guy on the internet but i think you
01:10:34both did a
01:10:34great job and i hope you'll keep me posted about how it's going and a big hug to you both
01:10:38all right bye
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