41 And All ALONE! CALL IN SHOW

Stefan Molyneux

Philosopher Stefan Molyneux breaks down a 41-year-old caller's failed romances and depression from upbringing intimacy scars, forging bonds with value-strong partners.  0:00:00 Heartbreak and Relationships  0:01:05 Struggles with Depression and Self-Improvement  0:01:18 Seeking Insights from Life Experiences  0:02:49 The Story of Winter  0:05:52 Meeting Autumn at Church  0:07:13 Reflections on Faith and Dating  0:07:33 The Impact of Past Choices  0:10:59 The Relationship with Autumn Deepens  0:12:17 An Awkward Second Date  0:13:53 Navigating Mental Health Challenges  0:16:36 Lessons from the Experience  0:17:16 The Fallout and Moving On  0:20:11 The Emotional Toll of Relationships  0:22:16 Friends' Perspectives and Concerns  0:23:53 The Crush on Summer  0:26:40 Transitioning from Friends to More  0:30:14 The Complexity of Relationships  0:32:59 Reflections on Personal Patterns  0:37:24 The Role of Family in Relationship Choices  0:41:18 Understanding Parental Influence on Behavior  0:44:20 The Need for Guidance and Awareness  0:45:26 Early Relationship Reflections  0:48:41 The Mean Girl  0:52:44 Parental Influence  0:56:02 Patterns of Attraction  1:02:48 The Search for Stability  1:06:35 Understanding Depression  1:12:53 Family Dynamics  1:15:28 Breaking the Cycle  1:24:58 The Path Forward  1:29:05 Closing Thoughts   GET FREEDOMAIN MERCH! https://shop.freedomain.com/  SUBSCRIBE TO ME ON X! https://x.com/StefanMolyneux  Follow me on Youtube! https://www.youtube.com/@freedomain1  GET MY NEW BOOK 'PEACEFUL PARENTING', THE INTERACTIVE PEACEFUL PARENTING AI, AND THE FULL AUDIOBOOK! https://peacefulparenting.com/  Join the PREMIUM philosophy community on the web for free!  Subscribers get 12 HOURS on the "Truth About the French Revolution," multiple interactive multi-lingual philosophy AIs trained on thousands of hours of my material - as well as AIs for Real-Time Relationships, Bitcoin, Peaceful Parenting, and Call-In Shows!  You also receive private livestreams, HUNDREDS of exclusive premium shows, early release podcasts, the 22 Part History of Philosophers series and much more!  See you soon! https://freedomain.locals.com/support/promo/UPB2025

Transcript

00:00:00Okay. I guess let me start by reading the little email that I sent you to summarize what my issue

00:00:07is here.

00:00:08Yep. And just remember, it's a public call. So if you could stay off names and places, I'd appreciate it.

00:00:13Yes. No problem. I'm going to go and refer to these various relationships by using pseudonyms anyway.

00:00:21So hopefully that just helps.

00:00:24Um, anyway, okay. So I've been mired in a deep depression for the last year after three failed relationships in

00:00:31a row.

00:00:31After each one ended, I had felt as if I could suck up the heartbreak and move on.

00:00:36But as the heartbreaks piled up, I felt like that moving on was impossible.

00:00:40It was made even worse by a rough financial patch brought on by a 30% pay cut amid a

00:00:45work slowdown.

00:00:47At the time of the first relationship, I had been undergoing a period of massive self-improvement.

00:00:51Losing weight, working out, and building up my career.

00:00:55Um, this depression has hit me hard and has set me back significantly.

00:00:59I've been procrastinating more, sleeping less, and I've been binge eating to cope.

00:01:05Um, and so I guess what I'm looking for is maybe some connections here that I'm missing or some insight

00:01:13that, uh, that only a philosopher could provide.

00:01:16Well, let's, uh, let's hope I can. Tell me a little bit about your life circumstances.

00:01:21Okay. Uh, so I'm 41 years old. Um, I have a pretty good career going at the moment, but it's

00:01:27the kind of career that, um, it's, there's not a lot of money in it.

00:01:31It's more of a passion career than anything else. Um, but I love it. And so I'm living in a

00:01:37wonderful place.

00:01:38I have, um, money slowly coming in, slowly getting better. Um, and, uh, over the last 10 years, I think,

00:01:47uh, my dating life has been really tough.

00:01:50I've, I've kind of gone through these little cycles where I'll actively go and join meetup groups and do activities

00:01:57to try to meet women.

00:01:58Um, and I'll connect with a woman and then I'll, I'll kind of try to suss out like what her

00:02:04values are.

00:02:05And, um, what I found out pretty quickly is a lot of the women have totally different value systems.

00:02:11And I'd like to have kids and settle down and get married. And that just doesn't seem to be on

00:02:16the agenda for most of these women.

00:02:18So the relationships that I, what ages and filters that you're using.

00:02:24So I'm, uh, since I'm 40, I'm kind of going, you know, between 30 and 40. Um, and for filters,

00:02:31I, I did some of the online dating, but I think I had more success with the in-person things

00:02:38like events, uh, meetup groups that have shared interests.

00:02:42So hopefully that would be a good starting point to, to meet somebody. Does that make sense?

00:02:47Got it. Okay. Go ahead.

00:02:48Uh, so we're, we're, this, this drama starts was, um, that I met this woman, a 32 year old woman,

00:02:57um, who I'm going to call winter for the sake of this conversation.

00:03:01Um, when I first met her, she had been, uh, married to a man for seven years, but they were

00:03:08in a trial separation and she had moved across the country, uh, to live, uh, in the town that I

00:03:14live in.

00:03:15Sorry, trial separation. So she was still married.

00:03:17And she might've returned.

00:03:19Correct. Yes. But at this point she had already moved several States away. And, um, when I met her, uh,

00:03:27it seemed like the relationship was on the way out and, uh, we worked together and that's how I met

00:03:33her.

00:03:34And we, we kind of started off with just cause we worked very closely together. We developed a really good

00:03:40rapport and that turned into, um, some light flirting and a lot of socializing. She was new to town. So

00:03:47I introduced her to my friend's group.

00:03:50Um, and things were, we're developing to the point where we started hanging out outside of work a lot. Um,

00:03:56and then we had, I had introduced her to a couple friend of mine.

00:04:01We'll call them Bob and summer. And, um, we started doing couples things together. So Bob and summer and me

00:04:08and winter. And we would go to bars. We would go out to eat. We'd go do various artsy activities

00:04:15and things in town.

00:04:16Uh, to the point where it's like, it was pretty obvious. Like we both liked each other a lot. And

00:04:21so, um, we got to a point where we were hanging out a lot outside of work by ourselves to

00:04:27just doing things together, like cooking meals and going to museums and things like that.

00:04:32And about two months. And in this two months, like we got close to the point where we actually kissed

00:04:41and I pulled back a little bit because I was uncomfortable with the,

00:04:46the ambiguity of her marriage still that she's, even though she's separated and living in a completely different state, I

00:04:53just didn't feel comfortable with that. So I talked to her about it and I said, look, you know, I,

00:04:57I'd prefer if you ended the relationship with your husband.

00:05:01So we could move on and I'm not really into infidelity or, or being the guy, the homewrecker, you know?

00:05:09So, um, she was like, okay, I'm going to talk to him about it.

00:05:12Um, she talked to him, I guess a couple of days later after that. And he freaked out. Um, he

00:05:20quit his job. He decided to come move to where we are and he showed up at her doorstep unannounced

00:05:26and was like, I, we got to fix this. And so she decided that she was going to give it

00:05:31a try and try to fix it with him. So she ended our relationship. Um, even though we work together

00:05:37still, which has been really difficult, but, um,

00:05:40Um, but all you have done thus far was go to some museums and kiss a bit. Is that right?

00:05:45Yes. Like you hadn't slept together or anything like that. Correct. Okay. So, um, that's kind of that.

00:05:52Uh, do you have any questions or should I just move on to the next? Okay. So the next one

00:05:57was after I was feeling a little bit down from winter. Um, I met a woman at church. Um, this,

00:06:04I'm going to call her autumn. Um, and I, I did intentionally kind of choose the,

00:06:09the seasons because of their personalities here. So maybe that could be a layer of, of that. Um, but autumn

00:06:15was 40 years old at the time. I was also 40. Um, she's very attractive, kind of a mysterious woman

00:06:22that a lot of the guys in my church. I met her at church.

00:06:25Sorry, she's 40. I thought you said you wanted to kids.

00:06:29I did. Um, so not too much.

00:06:32Yeah.

00:06:33How do you guys start dating a woman at 40 and hope to get kids?

00:06:35I mean, by potential miracle. Sure. But you could win the lottery too. Right.

00:06:40Right. You're a hundred percent right. Okay. So kids wasn't high priority. And listen, I'm not criticizing. I just want

00:06:45to make sure I understand what your priorities are.

00:06:47Right. Okay. Um, so with her, uh, she would never really stay. I'm Catholic. And so she would come to

00:06:55mass and then she would kind of disappear. She'd go, she'd leave. And in my church, everybody sticks around and

00:07:00talks a lot after mass.

00:07:02Oh, that's why you said she was mysterious. Yes. Okay. Yeah. And, and she was the kind of, she was

00:07:07attractive enough that almost all the guys in the church noticed her.

00:07:11And I'm so sorry, so have you always been Catholic?

00:07:14Yes.

00:07:14So how do you end up in your forties Catholic and unmarried?

00:07:19Well, um, actually, uh, to be honest, I, I did go through probably about 12 years of an atheist, uh,

00:07:26phase, uh, right about the time I started listening to your show, um, back when you were doing podcasts in

00:07:31the car.

00:07:32Okay. Uh, so I, I separated from the church, um, because I kind of rationalized, uh, you know, you, you've

00:07:41made great arguments about the existence of God. And I, I really strongly believed in those arguments as well. Um,

00:07:50and I only kind of went back to Catholicism during COVID because of the, uh, so there's actually something else

00:07:57you, you said too, of, of kind of finding your group and when times get tough.

00:08:01And I found a group of, of men at this church that were reliable, um, self-reliant kind of people.

00:08:10So if the world was going to end, these would be the kind of people you want to be around,

00:08:16you know, they're good moral people with good backgrounds. And so I thought, okay, I can, I can kind of

00:08:23go back to my roots a little bit.

00:08:25Well, sorry, but during the, I guess you were, you said you bet 10 to 12 years until, until when,

00:08:33until COVID, right?

00:08:35Yes.

00:08:35Okay. So from sort of mid to late twenties, you were mid twenties to mid thirties and then COVID. Uh,

00:08:45and what happened with your dating life, mid twenties to mid thirties?

00:08:48Um, I was foolish. I, I kind of slept around. Um, I got into a lot of short-term relationships.

00:08:55Um, just didn't see any.

00:08:57Ah, so you were a selective listener.

00:09:00Yes, I was.

00:09:00So if I gave you a path away from the strictures of religion, you were keen. But if I said,

00:09:07don't sleep around, you didn't want to listen to that, right?

00:09:10That's correct.

00:09:10Okay. Got it. Just, just checking. Go ahead.

00:09:12And, um, another fault here in my, in, in myself here is I listened to your show, but I always

00:09:18listened to the content that was more political, um, and kind of turned off the, uh, the, the one-on

00:09:25-one calls, which is now looking back on it, a huge mistake.

00:09:29Um, I only started listening to the, the personal calls back in 2020. Um, after your, uh, de-platforming, I

00:09:37really liked you a lot.

00:09:38So I followed you. I was one of those people that followed you one web website over.

00:09:42Ah, thank you.

00:09:43And you're welcome. And I started listening to the, the personal calls and that's when it really clicked is there's

00:09:50more to this than politics and, and libertarian ethics.

00:09:54Um, so I, I relate to the game in that sense that I've been a fan of yours for a

00:09:59long time, but I just never dived into the, the really important concept.

00:10:03No, it's, it's actually kind of common that, and you know, don't feel bad.

00:10:07And it's pretty common that I hear people were like, yeah, I kept skipping over the call-in shows.

00:10:10Like, why is this guy talking about this stuff?

00:10:13And then later, uh, when my life wasn't working out, I went back to the call-in shows.

00:10:17I'm like, oh, that's why.

00:10:19Yes. And I, if, if I could give any piece of advice to anybody who's listening, definitely go back and

00:10:25listen to the call-in shows because there's so much.

00:10:28Um, and, and, and to, to a certain degree, I feel a little embarrassed by bringing this up because I

00:10:35should have known better, uh, at that point from 2020 to the events of, of these three relationships was started

00:10:42all about 2024.

00:10:44So I really should have known better.

00:10:46Well, it's funny because you'll listen to me about God and religion and philosophy, but not the, the call-in

00:10:52shows are important, which is again, fine.

00:10:54I've, I've had my own selective listening with philosophy, so I'm not going to lord it over anyone, but anyway,

00:10:58go ahead.

00:10:59Okay. So, um, to get back into the relationship with autumn. So what happened with that is I, since I

00:11:06had been working out, um, it was a noticeable change for me.

00:11:10Like my, uh, I've always been kind of a big framed guy, but, uh, after it was working out, my

00:11:16arms particularly got pretty muscular and I like to wear shorts and shirts.

00:11:20And so it was, I think it was one of those things that she noticed that and she was like,

00:11:26okay, he looks like a big, strong guy.

00:11:28So she approached me after mass one day and asked if I would, uh, be interested in helping her move

00:11:34out of her apartment.

00:11:36And she offered to pay. Yeah.

00:11:37She offered to pay.

00:11:39Yes.

00:11:40But she was, she specifically sought me out because she was like, you look like a really strong guy and

00:11:45you could help with that.

00:11:47And so I was like, okay, you know, sure.

00:11:49Why not?

00:11:49Yeah. Um, and as we were moving her apartment, um, I guess we just, we connected, we talked a lot,

00:11:56um, even though it was kind of a dirty, sweaty kind of thing.

00:11:59Um, that was something that turned her on.

00:12:02And later on that night, after the whole moving had taken place, she started texting me a lot and she

00:12:10was, she complimented me.

00:12:12And I think that was part of the reason why I started to fall for her was the, the compliments,

00:12:19the, oh, you're a strong guy.

00:12:21It was really nice to see you lifting all these heavy things.

00:12:24Um, and that, that kind of short circuited my brain.

00:12:27So the rational side was kind of taking her backseat there.

00:12:31And I asked her out on a date.

00:12:32Um, the date went really well.

00:12:34We had a good time.

00:12:35Uh, and then after the date, she texted me more and more, uh, including texting me a song that had

00:12:41very romantic lyrics to it about how, um, the, the singer was interested in this guy, but she wasn't sure

00:12:49if she could open her heart to him, but she really wanted to open her heart to him.

00:12:52Um, so I was like, okay, this could be really interesting.

00:12:56Um, then, uh, here's where it gets really embarrassing is we had a second date and on the second date,

00:13:03um, I showed up to the date.

00:13:04She invited me over to her, to her apartment and then we would go get dinner from there.

00:13:09And I showed up to her apartment and she was, she had left the door open.

00:13:15She told me to come in.

00:13:15I came in and she was laying on her couch, face down in her underwear and being like really depressive.

00:13:23And so I, it was kind of awkward.

00:13:27Depressive.

00:13:27Like she was, she looked like sick almost.

00:13:30Wait, she was lying face down on the couch in her underwear.

00:13:34I thought this was like the opening of some cheesy porno or something.

00:13:38So, but she was depressed.

00:13:40That made me understand.

00:13:41Yeah.

00:13:42I, I, I walked in, I was like, what's going on?

00:13:44I thought we were, you know, are you ready to go out?

00:13:46We're going to go get some burgers.

00:13:48And she was like, look, I'm really feeling depressed right now.

00:13:52I'm kind of sad.

00:13:53And, um, she told me that she goes through these manic depressive cycles, uh, because she's bipolar.

00:14:00And so I'm, I'm kind of stuck where I don't know what to do.

00:14:03So I sat down.

00:14:06Well, I'm, I, I, I do.

00:14:09You're in your forties, man.

00:14:11Don't, don't play.

00:14:11I don't know what to do with the hot bipolar girl.

00:14:16Well, yes.

00:14:18Um, but I, I do have boundaries, right?

00:14:21I wasn't going to take advantage of this weird situation.

00:14:24So I tried to take advantage of her.

00:14:27Yeah.

00:14:28If you could go back in time, what advice would you give yourself in that moment?

00:14:32Boy, um, I would probably say, uh, look, I'm sorry.

00:14:37Hey, you know, you're depressed.

00:14:39I, I don't know what to do.

00:14:41I don't think going on a date right now would be a good idea.

00:14:44So maybe, you know, we can find something else to do or, or, um, try another time.

00:14:51The girl, just the woman just confessed to a serious mental illness.

00:14:56Yeah.

00:14:57If you could go back in time, what would you suggest you do?

00:15:02Run.

00:15:03Yeah.

00:15:04Be nice.

00:15:04You know, whatever.

00:15:05Right.

00:15:05But you can't fix that.

00:15:06You can't fix that.

00:15:07Yeah.

00:15:08I mean, you know, maybe sit and chat with her for a little bit and, you know, gosh, I'm

00:15:11so sorry.

00:15:12And, you know, maybe we'll pick this up some other time.

00:15:14And then, you know, like she's got to go deal with a therapist or I don't know, whatever

00:15:18it's going to, I don't know what you do with bipolar, but what you don't do is try and live

00:15:23with it.

00:15:24Yeah.

00:15:25And, and I, I didn't at the, at the time I didn't really, I tried to give her a pep

00:15:30talk,

00:15:31like just try to get her spirits out.

00:15:33And, uh, we did end up going out to get something to eat.

00:15:36And at the end of that, I'm so sorry, my apologies.

00:15:39Oh no.

00:15:40You tried to get, I'm sorry.

00:15:42Don't mean to laugh.

00:15:42My apologies.

00:15:43It's very rude.

00:15:43You tried to give the bipolar girl a pep talk.

00:15:47Well, I didn't know what to do.

00:15:49I'd never been in a situation like that.

00:15:51So I didn't want to just be like, peace out.

00:15:54I'm gone.

00:15:54You know, I sat down and I tried.

00:15:56No, no.

00:15:57I understand wanting to get out, maybe give her some positive vibes, but did you give

00:16:01her a pep talk to get her out of the date?

00:16:03Like that was going to fix her?

00:16:04I thought maybe it might.

00:16:06I didn't really understand.

00:16:07That's why I'm laughing.

00:16:09Yeah.

00:16:10I understand.

00:16:10You've been bipolar for probably 30 or 40 years, but don't worry.

00:16:15The only thing you've been missing is a pep talk from me.

00:16:19This is why I wanted to have this call because I knew you were going to say things that I

00:16:24should have.

00:16:25No, listen, if you weren't a long term listener, I'd be much more gentle.

00:16:31No, you can be as harsh as you need to be, Steph.

00:16:34I think I can take it.

00:16:37Oh no, I know you can.

00:16:38And I'm pretty good at gauging these things, but like I could fix bipolar where the pep talk

00:16:44is really something, man.

00:16:45Especially when you've listened to call-in shows and you've understood how deep and

00:16:49intractable these mental issues are.

00:16:52No, you're right.

00:16:53But hey, man, buck up, sister.

00:16:56She's going to be fine and totally screwable.

00:16:59Anyway, go ahead.

00:17:02Yeah, this is why I feel embarrassed to talk about it, but I think I need to hear it.

00:17:08Hey, if you have appendicitis, no problem, man.

00:17:10I'll just keep saying bad appendicitis and it's going to go away.

00:17:13Anyway, go on.

00:17:14I'm sorry.

00:17:14I could keep doing that for a while, but it would get me after a while.

00:17:17So go ahead.

00:17:17I appreciate it.

00:17:20So after that, I went home and the next day I just texted her like, hey, how are you doing?

00:17:27Are you doing okay?

00:17:29She ghosted me for a couple of days, like three or four days.

00:17:31I'm sorry.

00:17:32Sorry.

00:17:32Did you go on the date?

00:17:33I can't remember.

00:17:34Yes, we did.

00:17:35We went out to eat and then I brought her back to her apartment and then I left.

00:17:39Okay.

00:17:40Got it.

00:17:40And did you make out or did you kiss her or how did things go from a romantic standpoint?

00:17:45It was not romantic.

00:17:46It was at that point more just like taking a friend out who's having a bad day.

00:17:53Okay.

00:17:54So then she ghosted you?

00:17:55She ghosted me.

00:17:57And then when she did reach out, she reached out kind of in an angry fashion saying like,

00:18:02Well, to be fair, you don't know which person.

00:18:04Her personality ghosted you.

00:18:05That's true.

00:18:07That's so true.

00:18:09She texted like this angry rant about like, well, you're supposed to be a Catholic guy.

00:18:15You're supposed to be upstanding.

00:18:16And you come to my apartment on the second date, you know, and just kind of like just

00:18:22being really sorry.

00:18:23Didn't she invite you to her apartment?

00:18:24She did.

00:18:25Yes.

00:18:26Okay.

00:18:26So she's not just bipolar.

00:18:28She's also bipolar, deranged and abusive.

00:18:31Yes.

00:18:32Well, you know what that means?

00:18:34It means it's time for another pep talk.

00:18:36I know.

00:18:38At that point, I was like.

00:18:39Did you try to reason with her?

00:18:41No, no.

00:18:42Oh, good.

00:18:42You learned that much.

00:18:43Okay.

00:18:44Go ahead.

00:18:44Yeah.

00:18:45Go.

00:18:45You know, it's fine.

00:18:46You need to work on yourself, whatever.

00:18:49We left it that way.

00:18:50And she had stopped going to church at that point.

00:18:53Um, so it was a couple months.

00:18:55Uh, and then this was probably this, I'd say this was like May or June.

00:19:00Um, and then in September, she showed up at church again and, um, she came up to talk to

00:19:06me and told me this story about how she'd been working on herself and taking medications

00:19:11and seeing a therapist and just getting herself into a better state of mind.

00:19:17So I was like, okay.

00:19:18Um, we started hanging out again.

00:19:20Uh, it was at first, it was just like, let's go get some lunch after church, something like

00:19:26that.

00:19:26Um, and then it developed into more romantic kind of thing and, uh, fixed in how long after

00:19:33she ranted at you, this would be like four months.

00:19:37Okay.

00:19:38All right.

00:19:38So maybe she did some intensive therapy or whatever.

00:19:40Okay.

00:19:41Right.

00:19:42So during the course of it, I, uh, I completely got sucked into how attractive she was and

00:19:50how exciting it was to have a relationship.

00:19:53Um, so again, I, I completely ignored all the red flags and the deeper the relationship

00:19:59went, the more she started revealing about herself and her mental illness and past, uh,

00:20:06physical and sexual abuse and a drug addiction and a sex addiction.

00:20:11And I completely ignored all of those things.

00:20:16Um, until about February of 2025, when she decided to just like pick up the

00:20:23and move to a whole nother city, just completely on a whim and didn't tell me she was going

00:20:29to do it.

00:20:30And I just got a text from her saying, Hey, maybe she needed another guy to help her move.

00:20:34Sorry.

00:20:34Go on.

00:20:35Maybe.

00:20:37Um, and so she just up and left.

00:20:40And the only thing I got from her was a text message saying, Hey, you're a great guy.

00:20:45You're wonderful, but I need a change of scene.

00:20:47Right.

00:20:48I mean, this is what crazy people do is they burn out all of their victims in some neighborhood.

00:20:53They got to move someplace new.

00:20:54Yes.

00:20:56So after that, I still, I was feeling pretty bad, but I still, you know, kept up with my

00:21:02workout routine and just trying to focus on, on getting better overall for myself.

00:21:08And at this time, this was about the beginning of 2025.

00:21:12So January, February, um, my, one of my close friends, uh, we'll call him Bob, uh, the one

00:21:19that was married to summer, Bob and summer split up.

00:21:22And that was a rough one for me because I had been friends with them for since 2020.

00:21:29And, uh, we were doing so many things as couples and, and even outside of me being in relationship,

00:21:36I was hanging out with them quite frequently, like several times a month.

00:21:40Um, and with summer, I had a crush on her going back.

00:21:44What did, what did Bob and summer think of bipolar, babe?

00:21:48They didn't like her much at all.

00:21:50Okay.

00:21:51And, and it was kind of the, the only time.

00:21:54So, um, the first time, let's say, let's go back to, uh, like October, November of 2024

00:22:04is, um, the first time they met, um, Autumn, the bipolar woman.

00:22:10Um, and it was a pleasant experience.

00:22:12We were hanging out, we had a big friends group over and so it was a pleasant.

00:22:17And you hadn't told them about her sexual abuse, sex addiction, drug addiction, and all

00:22:21that sort of stuff.

00:22:22Correct.

00:22:23Okay.

00:22:24So you were hiding things from them.

00:22:26Yes.

00:22:27Yes.

00:22:28Okay.

00:22:28And, um, so we had, uh, the next time we, we actually had gone out as a couple would be

00:22:35me and Autumn and Bob and summer, we went out to a vineyard, uh, nearby and we, we spent

00:22:41it a whole day together.

00:22:42And that was when they kind of noticed something was off about Autumn.

00:22:47And the only one that ever said anything to me about it was summer.

00:22:50She was like, Oh, you know, Autumn's a little bit weird.

00:22:53Like, you know, what's going on with that?

00:22:56And I really didn't know how to respond to that.

00:22:58Um, so I kind of just said, well, yeah, she's going to, well, I think to, to what you

00:23:04said, I was hiding things.

00:23:05Like I was embarrassed by just saying the truth that she has addictions that she's

00:23:10battling.

00:23:11So I just, I mean, you can't say to me, I didn't know how to respond.

00:23:17You can say I chose to keep lying.

00:23:20Yeah.

00:23:21That's, I mean, I can't, I can't treat you as some 16 year old leaf in the wind, right?

00:23:25You're a middle-aged man who's listened to philosophy for, uh, 15 years, right?

00:23:31Right.

00:23:32More 17 years.

00:23:33Okay.

00:23:34So, uh, you're just going to have to, you know, just so we don't waste time, just try

00:23:38and avoid the weasel, no accountability words.

00:23:41Well, I just didn't know how to, what to say.

00:23:43It's like, you knew exactly what to say.

00:23:44You just chose to lie.

00:23:46Yes.

00:23:47And I'm not saying that in any condemnation way.

00:23:50I just, just striving for accuracy and self-ownership, but sorry, go ahead.

00:23:54Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

00:23:55I don't, I don't take it as anything hostile.

00:23:59So, um, so let me give you, I need to kind of give you a little bit of a backstory.

00:24:04With, with summer, summer, I met her in 2020 when she started dating my friend, Bob, and I instantly had

00:24:12a crush on her since then.

00:24:13Um, she's an attractive woman, blonde, blue eyes, fit, um, just the kind of woman that also has very, uh,

00:24:20warm personality and she's kind of slurty.

00:24:23So, um, we had, I had this crush on her.

00:24:28You don't filter for morals really at all as far as like, you're tall, blonde, friendly, pretty, hot, bipolar.

00:24:35I mean, you, so listen, and it's fine.

00:24:36I'm just pointing it out.

00:24:37So you don't accept, and there's no reason why you should.

00:24:41I mean, it's not automatically like I'm right or something, but you don't accept my argument that love is our

00:24:47response to virtues.

00:24:48If you're virtuous, you look for, you know, pretty, friendly, hot, fun, you know, that kind of stuff.

00:24:55Right.

00:24:55And, and I'm just pointing it out that you have differed or you've gone a very different direction from my

00:25:03advice.

00:25:05Yes.

00:25:06Yes.

00:25:06Um, I'd say one caveat here is just that at the time I wasn't actually going to pursue a relationship

00:25:12with Summer just because.

00:25:13No, but you said why you had a crush on her like you're 14 or something instead of 41.

00:25:19Right.

00:25:19No, I see what you're saying.

00:25:21Yes.

00:25:21Um, there, I did think she, she had a set of morals as her relationship with Bob developed.

00:25:27Uh, I thought at least from what she was telling me, which again is not, I wasn't filtering for what

00:25:35she actually was doing.

00:25:37Well, let's run that through a potential test and I'm not disagreeing with you.

00:25:41Maybe she's a super moral woman, but when she noticed that bipolar babe was weird and you gaslit her because

00:25:51you knew how weird she was, but you didn't want to tell Summer that, right?

00:25:55Yes.

00:25:56So did she continue to probe?

00:25:58Did she say, is there anything you're not telling me or is there anything you know about her background or

00:26:01do you know anything about her childhood or her youth or like anything?

00:26:05Like, did she probe?

00:26:06Did she, cause you know, this woman could have been seriously dangerous to you.

00:26:09I mean, this is the kind of person who turns into a stalker or it gives you a false essay

00:26:15allegation or something like that.

00:26:17Right.

00:26:17So, uh, your friend Summer, did she look out for you?

00:26:21Did she probe?

00:26:22Did she try and find out more?

00:26:23Did she even notice that you were lying?

00:26:25No, she didn't.

00:26:26Okay.

00:26:27So not that caring because caring people, uh, if you're around a dangerous woman, caring people would try to help

00:26:33you, right?

00:26:35Right.

00:26:36And something else I noticed is none of my other, none of my male friends said anything either.

00:26:42Right.

00:26:42Okay.

00:26:43I mean, so that's a consequence of the people you choose to have in your life.

00:26:46Yes.

00:26:47All right.

00:26:47Okay.

00:26:48So you got the crush on Summer, she breaks up with Bob and then what?

00:26:51And then I reached out to Summer, uh, just through a text saying like, Hey, I know it's weird.

00:26:57Um, they had gotten married and then divorced.

00:26:59And, um, I was like, well, you know, we were friends.

00:27:02I'd like to hang out with you regardless of what happens.

00:27:06And, uh, she said, yeah, she'd really like to hang out with me as well.

00:27:09Wait, doesn't, but the divorce takes a long time, doesn't it?

00:27:13Yes.

00:27:13They separated in January and the divorce didn't go through until like, uh, May.

00:27:19Really?

00:27:19But they, they separated like left, uh, you know, moved into separate places and all of

00:27:26that kind of thing.

00:27:27And why did they divorce?

00:27:29They divorced because there's a couple of things.

00:27:32Um, I, I, I heard both sides of the story from, from both of them and there are parts

00:27:37where they jive.

00:27:38And, and what, what happened was that, uh, Summer could not, she had a, an issue that

00:27:44she could not bear children.

00:27:46And so Bob was kind of in the mood where he was like, well, I really want to have kids.

00:27:50So I don't see a point in being married if we're, if we're not going to have kids.

00:27:55And then was that something they discovered over the course of the marriage?

00:27:58Yes.

00:27:59They didn't know that.

00:28:00I mean, that's, that's really tragic.

00:28:01And there may be every honorable person, sorry, every person might still be perfectly

00:28:05honorable in that situation.

00:28:06So that's just really tragic.

00:28:08So I get that.

00:28:09Go ahead.

00:28:09Um, but they didn't decide to get divorced because of that right away.

00:28:15Um, what ended up happening is they kind of grew distant with each other.

00:28:18And then, uh, Summer had a hobby that was, she's a competitive dancer as a hobby.

00:28:24And she started dancing more and more and, uh, then started a sexting relationship with

00:28:31the guy that she danced with.

00:28:32And in such an obvious way that, that Bob picked up on it.

00:28:36Hang on.

00:28:36So she cheated.

00:28:38Yes.

00:28:39In that modern digital manner.

00:28:41Okay.

00:28:42All right.

00:28:43So she claims she never, yeah, she claims she never actually slept with the guy or doing

00:28:48anything.

00:28:48No, that's a technicality.

00:28:49Anyway.

00:28:50Yeah.

00:28:50I agree with you on that.

00:28:52It was sketchy nonetheless, but, um, I was like, oh, okay.

00:28:56You know, once I heard that story, I was like, well, that sucks.

00:29:00Um, Summer and I went out to dinner and we connected really well.

00:29:04Like there was this kind of electric energy between us that I hadn't felt.

00:29:08I don't, yeah, it's called lust.

00:29:09Yeah.

00:29:10Got it.

00:29:10Yeah.

00:29:11And I mean, she's a professional dancer or competitive dancer.

00:29:14So I assume she's got a nice figure.

00:29:16And so, yeah, there's lust.

00:29:18Yes.

00:29:18You've got big arms.

00:29:19She's got tight buns and a way to the races.

00:29:22Yes.

00:29:24Um, when you put it that way, it does sound, uh, yeah, it's all this electric energy stuff.

00:29:29I mean, it's just lust, right?

00:29:30I mean, look, I have no problem with lust.

00:29:32I think that's great, but you know, should also throw a little bit of virtue in there

00:29:36too.

00:29:37Yes, I agree.

00:29:39And I realized my actions don't jive with that.

00:29:43No, no, you don't agree with me, which is again, fine.

00:29:46You know, I, when I say you don't agree with me, I don't mean that in any negative way.

00:29:50It's just a fact.

00:29:51Like you've heard me make the case as to what sustainable virtue and relationships are.

00:29:56I've been married for 23, 24 years, despite coming from a terrible childhood.

00:30:00And, uh, but I have not convinced you of that.

00:30:04So again, that's fine.

00:30:05Like you don't have to be convinced of anything from me, but you, you don't accept that.

00:30:09Yeah, I think that's fair to say.

00:30:12Okay.

00:30:12So what happened with summer?

00:30:15Um, so we started dating, um, more frequently and then that developed into a romantic and

00:30:20sexual relationship with Bob.

00:30:22Did you just break things off with him or?

00:30:23Uh, no, I just, I, um, stopped hanging out with him for a while.

00:30:28I mean, it's kind of brutal for him, right?

00:30:30Yes.

00:30:31I hid it from him.

00:30:32Um, yeah, I didn't tell him about it.

00:30:35Okay.

00:30:36And also, so you don't really care that much about having kids because you have a relationship

00:30:41with the 40 plus bipolar woman.

00:30:44And now you're having a relationship with a woman who's infertile.

00:30:48Yes.

00:30:49Okay.

00:30:49So you're just thinking with your dick.

00:30:51Yes.

00:30:52Okay.

00:30:52Got it.

00:30:53So go ahead.

00:30:54Uh, so that relationship progressed until probably about, uh, beginning of June.

00:31:01And, um, we had like, what year was this?

00:31:04Uh, 2025.

00:31:06Got it.

00:31:06Okay.

00:31:07So I was trying to, the, the relationship was still a bit ambiguous, you know, there was

00:31:12no commitment yet.

00:31:13I'm sorry.

00:31:13So I didn't quite catch that.

00:31:14It was a little fast.

00:31:15The relationship, what?

00:31:16Oh, uh, the relationship was ambiguous and there was no commitment to saying like, okay,

00:31:21you're my boyfriend and we're going to move in together or something like that.

00:31:26Wait, so like it was like friends with benefits?

00:31:28Yes.

00:31:29Okay.

00:31:30So, um, I kind of brought it up.

00:31:34I pointed, I wanted to have that conversation with her and I, I told her, I was like, let's

00:31:39have this conversation.

00:31:40Let's make dinner together.

00:31:41Let's, let's, um, you know, do something where we can just be together alone and talk.

00:31:47And she decided to sabotage that by asking if she could invite a friend.

00:31:53And so I said, okay, you know, do I know this friend?

00:31:56Like, who is this person?

00:31:58And she said, well, it's this guy, um, I dance with, uh, but he's no, nobody important.

00:32:03No, no big deal.

00:32:04Oh, not the guy she was sexting with.

00:32:05I have no idea if it was the same guy.

00:32:08And do you know what happened to the sexting relationship?

00:32:10As far as I know, it was over.

00:32:12Okay.

00:32:13But again, that's what she told me.

00:32:15So I don't know if she was being honest about it.

00:32:18So at that point I said, no, I can't do this anymore.

00:32:22You know, I think this is, uh, I don't do well with this ambiguity and I need to know

00:32:27like if we're going to be in a relationship that we need to commit to something.

00:32:31How long was she married to Bob?

00:32:33Uh, two years.

00:32:34Okay.

00:32:35And how old is she?

00:32:37Uh, 33.

00:32:38Got it.

00:32:39Okay.

00:32:39Yeah.

00:32:40So at that point she responded to saying, look, I can't, I don't have the emotional

00:32:44capacity to be any, any, anything to anybody right now.

00:32:49Well, I mean, of course not.

00:32:50Right.

00:32:50She's just gone through a divorce.

00:32:51She's not going to be emotionally available for at least a year.

00:32:54Yeah.

00:32:56So that's where you had already slept together.

00:32:57Right.

00:32:58Okay.

00:33:00So yeah, that, that, that's it.

00:33:02That's kind of the 30,000 foot view of those relationships.

00:33:07Oh, so you broke up with summer.

00:33:09Yes.

00:33:10Okay.

00:33:10And since then you haven't dated.

00:33:12Correct.

00:33:13All right.

00:33:14So how can I best help you?

00:33:17Well, I think, um, I need to understand why the, the, maybe this is a stupid question,

00:33:23but why the lust part of my brain takes over from the rational side of the brain when I

00:33:29can rationalize, when I can understand really complex things like, um, the existence of God

00:33:36or deeper philosophy, philosophical things.

00:33:39Why is it that I keep falling into this pattern?

00:33:43And, um, I mean, are you have already kind of pointed out a couple of things about like

00:33:47whether or not I'm being serious about wanting to have kids.

00:33:50Okay.

00:33:51So let me ask you this.

00:33:53If you were hearing this story and there were no ages or dates involved, dated this crazy

00:34:00girl, uh, dated a girl who just broke up with my best friend and, you know, and, and we slept

00:34:07together right away.

00:34:07And then, uh, you know, I tried to figure what, what mental age would you say someone telling

00:34:12these stories would be if you didn't know anything else?

00:34:14Um, 25.

00:34:16Not even this is teen stuff.

00:34:19Yeah.

00:34:19This is like high school stuff.

00:34:21Interesting.

00:34:22I mean, this is so, so what I would first, the first place that I would go is try and

00:34:27figure out what happened to you around the ages of 15 to 18 that may have got you stuck

00:34:32at least in this part of your life.

00:34:34Yeah.

00:34:35So what was going on mid to late teens for you?

00:34:38Um, my parents got divorced when I was 10 and the drama between that kind of dragged

00:34:45on for a bit into my late teen years.

00:34:48So, uh, wait, they spent eight or nine years getting divorced.

00:34:51No, they got divorced, but there was drama in the sense that like my parents were still

00:34:54fighting, even though they were divorced.

00:34:56Um, then my dad remarried and, um, I had to deal with a step family.

00:35:02And so there was a lot of drama with that.

00:35:04So you had to deal with his step family or he did?

00:35:07Well, um, my dad's new family.

00:35:10I had to deal with them because I still had to see my dad.

00:35:13Does that make sense?

00:35:14Yeah.

00:35:15Okay.

00:35:15Got it.

00:35:16Mm-hmm.

00:35:17Okay.

00:35:18So they, you got, they, they separated when you were 10, but they were still fighting into

00:35:22your late teens.

00:35:23Yes.

00:35:24Were they fighting about money or custody or something else?

00:35:27Uh, custody mostly.

00:35:29Um, you know, my mom had wanted to move to a different state and my dad didn't want that

00:35:34to happen.

00:35:35So they, they got into arguments about that.

00:35:37My mom was always trash talking my dad.

00:35:40Um, so, you know, stuff, uh, stuff like that.

00:35:45Okay.

00:35:46Um, what's the status of your relationship with your parents now?

00:35:49Uh, my relationship with my dad has gotten much better.

00:35:52Um, he apologized for all of the, uh, pain and suffering caused by the divorce.

00:35:59Um, and he, you know, he recognizes flaws.

00:36:02And so he, he worked really hard when I was in the, my late teens into college years to

00:36:08reconcile that relationship, um, to, to make as much restitution as he could by spending

00:36:13more time with me.

00:36:14Um, yes.

00:36:15Okay.

00:36:15Sorry.

00:36:15Go ahead.

00:36:16Like, uh, spending more time with me, trying to, um, as best as possible, like try to make

00:36:21up for the, the time lost in that.

00:36:24So he tried to fix his parenting when you became an adult.

00:36:28Yes.

00:36:29Okay.

00:36:30I mean, a little late friend.

00:36:32Yeah, of course.

00:36:33Yeah.

00:36:34Uh, and then my mom has always been kind of very distant, um, very emotionally unavailable.

00:36:41Um, she got, uh, Oh God, it's a whole like can of worms.

00:36:46I'll try to, uh, make it concise.

00:36:49So it would just stop me if you, if nothing makes sense to you here.

00:36:51Um, but my mom had, uh, an older sister and my mom's mother, my grandmother were very controlling

00:36:58people and they controlled my mom a lot.

00:37:01They took my mom's attention a lot.

00:37:02And so as a kid growing up, I never really had my mom's full attention.

00:37:08So, um, my relationship with my mom is still kind of, I mean, you went, you went passive

00:37:12there, right?

00:37:13Like they took your mom's attention, therefore you didn't have it.

00:37:16No, your mom was an adult.

00:37:17She could have given her attention to whoever she wanted.

00:37:20Right.

00:37:21So your mom chose to neglect you.

00:37:23Yes.

00:37:24Okay.

00:37:24Just, just checking.

00:37:25Cause again, went a little rubber bones there, but go on.

00:37:28Sorry about that.

00:37:29Um, and kind of go, I think something else is important to mention here is going back to

00:37:35when I was a real little kid, uh, my mom is a boomer, um, and did the whole boomer thing

00:37:40in the eighties of being a career woman.

00:37:42And so I have these distinct memories of being a little kid and my mom, like on a Sunday night,

00:37:48um, my mom would go to work the next morning and I would just get completely wrecked with,

00:37:53with, um, emotions and like feeling like, um, you know, she was abandoning me.

00:38:00Sorry.

00:38:01I read peaceful parenting and I mean, no, she kind of was this brother.

00:38:05I sympathize with the emotion.

00:38:07I really do.

00:38:07Go ahead.

00:38:09So I don't think I ever really got over that.

00:38:12Honestly.

00:38:13Um, it's still tough to think about.

00:38:17And yeah.

00:38:18Um, so my, my relationship with my mom is still kind of distant.

00:38:22She lives in a different state now.

00:38:24And we, um, we talk once a week on the phone, but it's never really much.

00:38:29No, that's, that's, that's close.

00:38:31That's, that's a lot of conversation and it's not a criticism.

00:38:34I'm just saying that speaking once a week is quite a lot.

00:38:37Yeah.

00:38:39But it never gets to the point of, of, of talking about anything important.

00:38:43It's all just like, you know, what did you do this week?

00:38:45Again, you use the passive voice a lot.

00:38:47So you choose not to bring up serious topics.

00:38:51I do bring up serious topics, but then she deflects.

00:38:55Okay.

00:38:55But then you don't continue to pursue that serious topic and say, Hey mom, you're kind

00:38:59of deflecting and so on, right?

00:39:01Yes.

00:39:01Okay.

00:39:03So if your relationship with your parents are healed, why are you making such bad relationship

00:39:08decisions?

00:39:09I mean, and such obviously bad relationship decisions.

00:39:13Right.

00:39:14Um, how pretty was your mom when she was younger?

00:39:17She was very pretty.

00:39:19Right.

00:39:19So your dad married her.

00:39:21Why?

00:39:23Uh, I don't know the real answer.

00:39:25All I know is you absolutely know the real, you absolutely know the real answer.

00:39:28You know, these people for 40 years, what's the, why did your father marry your mother?

00:39:32Not what he says, but what are the facts?

00:39:34Well, she's pretty, um, yeah, I guess.

00:39:39Yeah.

00:39:40Lust.

00:39:41Right.

00:39:41I mean, did he like her as a person?

00:39:44I, I, I don't know.

00:39:46Honestly, I think so.

00:39:47I mean, of course you know, they were married for like, they fought for how long?

00:39:51Yeah.

00:39:53Probably eight years.

00:39:54Yeah.

00:39:55So did he like her as a person?

00:39:58No, no, he didn't like her as a person.

00:40:01How long were they married for?

00:40:0314 years before the divorce.

00:40:05Okay.

00:40:06And what is your memory of how they got along when you were young?

00:40:11Um, kind of fogging, honestly.

00:40:15I remember, I remember them laughing, giggling, hugging, kissing.

00:40:19I do.

00:40:20And I do, I do remember seeing them really only fight maybe the last two years.

00:40:26And do you know what happened in their marriage that they started fighting more?

00:40:31Uh, my dad cheated on her.

00:40:33Ah, okay.

00:40:34All right.

00:40:35And do you know why your dad cheated on her?

00:40:38I don't.

00:40:39Well, hang on, hang on.

00:40:40I, I don't want to say less.

00:40:41Hang on, hang on.

00:40:42Yeah.

00:40:42So you said that your dad apologized and made restitution, right?

00:40:46Oh no, he apologized.

00:40:47So what was his restitution?

00:40:48You said it was spending more time with you, right?

00:40:50Yes.

00:40:51Okay.

00:40:52Now, if your father has a weakness called lust, right?

00:40:57Yeah.

00:40:58And it sounds like he did.

00:40:59If he cheated on an attractive woman, that's probably lust, right?

00:41:03So if your father, I'm sorry, go ahead.

00:41:06The only reason I didn't want to say it was lust is because the woman he cheated on my mom

00:41:12with was not attractive at all.

00:41:14Yeah.

00:41:15But the purpose of lust isn't that you, it's a weakness, right?

00:41:18I see.

00:41:18It's like saying everyone who's a glutton has to eat, you know, five-star food.

00:41:23It's like, no, glutton sometimes eat garbage, right?

00:41:26Right.

00:41:28So if your father has a weakness called lust, then how should he or could he best help you in

00:41:38your life?

00:41:39He should have warned me about it and told me, you know, this is the dangers of getting into a

00:41:46relationship based on lust.

00:41:48Right.

00:41:49Okay.

00:41:50And you said he got remarried, right?

00:41:52Yes.

00:41:53And did that remarriage last?

00:41:55No.

00:41:56Ah.

00:41:57And how attractive was the woman he was remarried to?

00:42:00Oh, geez.

00:42:02If I was going to five out of ten.

00:42:05And how attractive was your dad when he was young?

00:42:08Oh, very attractive.

00:42:10I'd say he's like an eight out of ten.

00:42:13Okay.

00:42:14So your dad's attractive and how long did his second marriage last?

00:42:17Let's see, from maybe five years.

00:42:21And did he cheat on her as well or was it something else?

00:42:24No.

00:42:25He just couldn't get along with her.

00:42:27She was a very difficult person to get along with.

00:42:30Ah, so he would have sex with her, but he didn't like her as a person.

00:42:34Yes.

00:42:35Okay, but that's lust, right?

00:42:37Yes.

00:42:38Lust is holding your nose over the stink of the personality in order to have sex with the body.

00:42:44Right.

00:42:45Okay.

00:42:46Do you think that your father has any self-awareness about his flaws?

00:42:50Well, he must because he apologized to you, right?

00:42:52Yes.

00:42:53Okay.

00:42:54How has your father's life been in terms of dating since the second marriage?

00:43:00Um, he, he, he didn't date for, for, uh, a while after that, uh, second marriage ended.

00:43:07And then when he did date, he dated women that were, I guess at that time he was probably in

00:43:12his fifties.

00:43:13So, uh, the women he dated were his age and they were, uh, kind of boring.

00:43:19Um, there was one serious relationship that he's been in for probably six or seven years now.

00:43:26And this is a strange long distance kind of relationship where she lives on the other side of the country

00:43:31and they only see each other maybe, you know, for two or three weeks every six months.

00:43:37Huh?

00:43:38Okay.

00:43:40So what does he do with his sex drive?

00:43:42I don't know.

00:43:44I mean, honestly, it's usually sex, sex workers or pornography.

00:43:50I don't know.

00:43:51Yeah, no, I'm just saying those are the likely answers and he probably didn't go full monk mode, right?

00:43:56Okay.

00:43:56Yeah.

00:43:57All right.

00:43:57So you said he dated these boring women.

00:44:01So again, women, he didn't particularly like as people, they were just warm bodies to be around and to use,

00:44:07right?

00:44:08Right.

00:44:09Okay.

00:44:10So is it fair to say that your father suffers with a problem of lust in that he doesn't choose

00:44:15a woman based upon the quality of her character, but rather the availability of her sexual organs?

00:44:21Yes.

00:44:22Okay.

00:44:22So he should have helped you with that, right?

00:44:25Yeah.

00:44:26Okay.

00:44:27So when you were dating, did your father ever talk to you about who you were dating or meet them

00:44:36or see pictures?

00:44:37Yes, he did.

00:44:39Okay.

00:44:39And what advice did he give you?

00:44:42Um, kind of the, the silly boomer kind of advice of like, well, don't, you know, don't try too hard

00:44:48or, um, uh, you don't want to be, uh, how do you put it?

00:44:54Like, uh, you don't want to be too obsessed with them.

00:44:57Um, nothing, uh, the advice.

00:44:59Like stupid, manipulative, don't text back too quickly stuff.

00:45:03Yes, exactly.

00:45:04Well, it's just done.

00:45:05Um, right.

00:45:06None of the, none of the advice he gave me, I really even consider advice because it just seems so

00:45:11kind of dumb.

00:45:13Okay.

00:45:13So did you tell, let's say for instance, um, give, give me an example of a woman in your twenties

00:45:20or maybe early thirties that you dated that you wish you'd gotten better advice about?

00:45:27Yes.

00:45:27Um, there was this, this woman that was, uh, she was a Catholic.

00:45:32She was very interested in getting married.

00:45:35And at the time I was just not thinking that way.

00:45:38And I wish I had gotten some advice to say, okay, this woman has good virtues.

00:45:43She's not looking to, um, jump into something sexual.

00:45:47Uh, she wants to have kids.

00:45:49This is, this is the good quality woman you should be looking for.

00:45:53And why didn't you want to move forward with her?

00:45:56I was the sex.

00:45:58She didn't want to have sex.

00:45:59Oh, okay.

00:46:00So, so she wouldn't satisfy the lust aspect.

00:46:04So you don't dump her.

00:46:06Yes.

00:46:07Okay.

00:46:07Got it.

00:46:08Got it.

00:46:09All right.

00:46:11And what about a woman who was more negative that you wish you'd gotten better advice?

00:46:17Yes.

00:46:18Um, my, probably my college girlfriend.

00:46:21Um, she was the kind of person that was very, um, she always insulted me.

00:46:26She always put me down.

00:46:27Um, she just had a very mean personality and again, nobody, uh, probably average looking

00:46:35like maybe a six out of 10.

00:46:38Okay.

00:46:39Um, and I don't know looking back on it too.

00:46:42I don't know why I think.

00:46:43Okay.

00:46:44So, um, I'm writing down some of these connections that you've made so far here.

00:46:48And I think the statement you said earlier about just having a warm body, I think that

00:46:53was something that drew or like drove me in that college relationship.

00:46:59And listen, I say this with all humility, just, just to be aware.

00:47:02I mean, I wasn't making wise choices when I was a teenager in my early twenties dating

00:47:06either.

00:47:07Right.

00:47:07So I say this with no, well, you see, I've made great decisions from the age of 14 onwards.

00:47:12So I just want to say this like with absolute humility and right down in there in the trenches

00:47:17with you, untutored idiot making bad choices based on superficial characteristics.

00:47:22So I just don't want you to think that I'm coming from any place of superiority here.

00:47:26So go ahead.

00:47:26I really appreciate that.

00:47:28Um, but this connection is really something now that I'm seeing that also ties into these

00:47:34other three relationships and, and also ties into patterns that my dad made too.

00:47:40It wasn't about the quality of their character.

00:47:44And so, but I also didn't have a father.

00:47:48I had a mother who'd been institutionalized and was completely off the wall.

00:47:52So I didn't have two parents who could have given me good advice.

00:47:56So just wanted to, uh, mention that, but, but, and that's not to make you feel bad is

00:48:01to put the spotlight more on your parents.

00:48:04Right.

00:48:04And I think that stings a lot for me is knowing that my dad could have given me this advice.

00:48:09No, no, should, should have given you good advice.

00:48:12That's basic to parenting.

00:48:13So when he apologized for being a bad parent to some degree, when you were younger, then he's

00:48:19got to double down on helping protect you when you get older, which he did not do.

00:48:25Yeah.

00:48:26And my mom didn't either.

00:48:28She knew these women.

00:48:29Well, that's the thing too.

00:48:31Like women know women better than men do.

00:48:33And so really it was incumbent upon your mother to make sure that you didn't get preyed upon

00:48:38or were preying upon women.

00:48:40Yeah.

00:48:42And how long did you date the mean girl to six?

00:48:45Um, four years of college.

00:48:48Oof.

00:48:49And what, what ended that?

00:48:51Oh boy, this is going to be embarrassing.

00:48:53Um, she turned out to be a lesbian and she ran off with my closest female friend.

00:49:00Oh, so she did to you what you did to Bob.

00:49:04Yes.

00:49:04Except you weren't divorced.

00:49:06Okay.

00:49:07So I don't know what turned out to be a lesbian means.

00:49:09Um, cause she was not, I mean, she's having sex with you.

00:49:12She's probably not a lesbian, but maybe she decided to cross over or experiment or something

00:49:16like that.

00:49:16Okay.

00:49:17So, uh, she ended up running off with another woman.

00:49:20Yes.

00:49:21Uh, okay.

00:49:23And did your parents ever meet this woman?

00:49:26They did.

00:49:27Yes.

00:49:28Ah, and what did they say?

00:49:29And what did they think?

00:49:30They thought she was great.

00:49:32Ah, good.

00:49:33Okay.

00:49:33Excellent.

00:49:34Yeah.

00:49:34They did not see the, the red flags.

00:49:37They didn't give me any advice or warnings.

00:49:41And did you tell them about her meanness?

00:49:43Yes.

00:49:43They saw it.

00:49:44Oh, they saw it.

00:49:45So what did they see?

00:49:46Tell me specifically.

00:49:48Uh, so just like childish kind of like, um, like making fun of me for various things.

00:49:55Like what?

00:49:56Give me examples.

00:49:57I don't know what this means in the abstract.

00:49:58I'm sorry.

00:49:59I know it's really abstract.

00:50:00I'm just, I haven't thought about this in like, you know, 15 years.

00:50:03So, uh, like, for example, like I, I, I didn't like professional sports and she was big on

00:50:10professional sports.

00:50:11And so she took me to a hockey game.

00:50:13I didn't know anything about hockey.

00:50:15I was going to say, and so if you took it to women's baseball, that might be a whole different

00:50:19thing.

00:50:20That might've been a hint.

00:50:21Anyway, go on.

00:50:21Uh, but she would like make fun of me for not knowing the rules of the game.

00:50:28And, uh, it was hockey.

00:50:30It was football, basically any sport.

00:50:33I was a baseball player in high school.

00:50:34And so I knew the rules of baseball, but I didn't like professional sports.

00:50:39I didn't like watching it.

00:50:40I didn't know who the players were or anything.

00:50:41So she'd make fun of me for certain things like that.

00:50:43If people are in possession of unimportant trivia and they make fun of you for not knowing

00:50:47that stuff.

00:50:47It's like, yeah, yeah.

00:50:48I mean, I don't know.

00:50:49I've been to see hockey games.

00:50:51We used to take our customers in the business world to go see hockey games.

00:50:55I mean, I vaguely knew what was going on, but I mean, I didn't really care.

00:50:59Uh, I just, you know, whatever.

00:51:00It's just something to do for business.

00:51:02Baseball.

00:51:02I get again, cause I played, I've never played football.

00:51:05I vaguely get it, but not hugely.

00:51:07And I just can't watch a game where there's like five minutes of play in two and a half hours.

00:51:11That's just jorted.

00:51:12Uh, so anyway.

00:51:13Okay.

00:51:13So she, she cares about sports.

00:51:15You don't.

00:51:15I mean, that would be like me making fun of my wife cause she doesn't understand TCP IP

00:51:20protocols.

00:51:20It's like, that's just stupid.

00:51:22Anyway, go on.

00:51:23It's stupid kind of things like that.

00:51:25Or if we're cooking meals, she'd be like, you're boiling the water wrong.

00:51:30Like just some trivial, like complete nonsense kind of things.

00:51:34And they had no problem with that.

00:51:36No problem.

00:51:38So what's wrong with them?

00:51:40Oh man.

00:51:41I don't, I want to say there's just, they're boomers.

00:51:43And that's what boomers do.

00:51:45That way.

00:51:46Right.

00:51:47I mean, can you imagine if you had a kid and some girl was making fun of him for like,

00:51:51like in a mean way, like not saying anything.

00:51:54Yeah.

00:51:56And they've always been really bad about my emotional state.

00:52:01If I was depressed or sad, they just didn't seem to care or ask questions.

00:52:05Why?

00:52:06Sorry.

00:52:07I thought this was after your father apologized to promise to be better.

00:52:10Oh, I mean, let me go back.

00:52:12This is kind of like in that time period between the divorce.

00:52:15Oh, in the 18th.

00:52:16So yeah.

00:52:17From like 10 to 18, let's say.

00:52:19Well, you know why they can't ask you why you're down when you're a teen.

00:52:23Of course.

00:52:24This is a divorce.

00:52:25Of course.

00:52:26Right.

00:52:27They caused it and they continue to cause the suffering by fighting and then making

00:52:32me and my sister as kind of pawns in there.

00:52:36You've mentioned this before.

00:52:38And people get divorced.

00:52:39It's like they use the children as kind of the pawns to hurt the other person.

00:52:44Oh, yeah.

00:52:45And I think both.

00:52:46Yeah.

00:52:47You said your mom trash talk to your dad, which of course is absolutely forbidden in

00:52:51divorces.

00:52:52Yeah.

00:52:53Yeah.

00:52:53So it caused a lot of pain and they just didn't.

00:52:56Bring it up.

00:52:57They didn't.

00:52:58You know, they didn't try to understand.

00:53:00And obviously they can't.

00:53:02Sorry.

00:53:02They what?

00:53:03They can't ask, like you said, because.

00:53:05Well, I mean, they could.

00:53:06They caused it.

00:53:07But then they'd have to be something other than hedonists.

00:53:10Right.

00:53:10They'd have to have some moral principles.

00:53:12So tell me about your parents' moral principles.

00:53:14What are their moral principles?

00:53:16That is a very big question.

00:53:19I.

00:53:20Nothing comes to mind.

00:53:22And it's something you've asked other callers before, like what are, what's something,

00:53:28a good piece of advice or a moral that your parents passed down to you?

00:53:33And honestly, I can't think of anything.

00:53:36Well, that you still find a value to this day.

00:53:39Study for your math test doesn't apply that much as an adult, but you know, some.

00:53:42Okay.

00:53:43So your parents don't.

00:53:44Do your homework.

00:53:45Were they Christians?

00:53:46Yes.

00:53:47Both Catholic.

00:53:48What?

00:53:49Okay.

00:53:50Sorry.

00:53:50I'm tripping over my own jawbone here, clavicular style.

00:53:54They're Catholic.

00:53:56Yes.

00:53:56And they had no morals to give you.

00:53:59Correct.

00:54:00What the fuck?

00:54:01I mean, other than like what the, what we would learn at church and Catholic school.

00:54:06No, no.

00:54:07Like what?

00:54:09Yeah.

00:54:09They had no morals.

00:54:11Like honestly, come on.

00:54:12Are you, are you serious?

00:54:14They had no morals to give you.

00:54:15I don't remember anything of value that they gave me.

00:54:20Okay.

00:54:21Okay.

00:54:24Okay.

00:54:25Okay.

00:54:26So you, other than your father in your late teens, early twenties saying, sorry for being

00:54:32bad dad.

00:54:34What honest conversations have you had with your parents about your childhood in the last

00:54:3920 years?

00:54:40I try to have a conversation with my mom about the emotional availability.

00:54:45Uh, and then she got emotional and started crying and, uh, kind of ran off from the

00:54:50conversation.

00:54:51Yeah.

00:54:52She made it selfishly about her and then ignored your feelings.

00:54:55So you say, mom, I feel you're not emotionally available.

00:54:57And then she gets narcissistically self-absorbed and then ignores your emotions.

00:55:02Correct.

00:55:02It was very narcissistic of like, why are you doing this to me?

00:55:05Why are you bringing this up?

00:55:06Oh yeah.

00:55:07Yeah.

00:55:07Beautiful.

00:55:08Beautiful.

00:55:09That's, that's wonderful.

00:55:10That is just, that's classic.

00:55:12That's classic.

00:55:13Let's make it all.

00:55:14Mom, I don't think that you pay enough attention for me.

00:55:16Well, here, I'm going to make this all about me and now you have to comfort me.

00:55:20Yeah.

00:55:20So, okay.

00:55:22How many, uh, girlfriends have you had?

00:55:25Uh, probably about 10.

00:55:27And how many sexual partners?

00:55:29Uh, let's say other than that one woman, so about nine.

00:55:34Okay.

00:55:34So 10 girlfriends, nine sexual partners.

00:55:37And what's the average length of your relationships?

00:55:41Uh, it's three to six months.

00:55:43Okay.

00:55:44And usually what ends them?

00:55:46Um, the women, uh, they would, they would, uh, either ghost me.

00:55:51Or just tell me this relationship isn't for them.

00:55:56And why do you think they do that?

00:55:58I don't know.

00:55:59Uh, maybe.

00:56:00Well, okay.

00:56:01No, I do know.

00:56:02Yeah.

00:56:02It's, if it's based on lust and nothing else, then at some point, I think that could get

00:56:08really boring.

00:56:09And then people decide, okay, it's time to move on to something more exciting.

00:56:14Okay.

00:56:14So can you provide for a family?

00:56:16You said that you have a fairly successful career, but it's not very

00:56:19renumerative.

00:56:21Correct.

00:56:22How tall are you?

00:56:24Yes.

00:56:25Six feet tall.

00:56:26You're six feet tall.

00:56:27Okay.

00:56:28And what's your weight?

00:56:30Uh, right now, 270.

00:56:32270.

00:56:33But when you were in your prime working out and big armed and all that?

00:56:37Well, like 240.

00:56:38Okay.

00:56:39And were you, because that's kind of overweight, right?

00:56:43Oh yeah.

00:56:44Yeah, for sure.

00:56:45Okay.

00:56:46But you were like beefy overweight with muscles?

00:56:48Correct.

00:56:49Okay.

00:56:50And kind of like, um, if you've ever seen that family guy joke of in shape,

00:56:54out of shape guy from the 1950s.

00:56:56I have not, but I believe you.

00:56:58Okay.

00:56:59Yeah.

00:56:59Like Robert Mitchum back in the 1950s.

00:57:02And God help you.

00:57:04Did you keep your hair?

00:57:05No.

00:57:06Okay.

00:57:07Like I'm, I'm balding, but not, uh, not totally bald.

00:57:10Okay.

00:57:11And when did you start losing your hair in sort of a noticeable more than just a

00:57:14widow's peak kind of way?

00:57:16Uh, probably like 30.

00:57:18Okay.

00:57:18Got it.

00:57:19All right.

00:57:20And how would you rate your face?

00:57:22Or how do you think women rate your face?

00:57:24I would say six out of 10.

00:57:27Okay.

00:57:29So, I mean, you're quite a bit taller than the average man.

00:57:32I think the average is five, eight, five, nine or something like that.

00:57:35So you're tall.

00:57:36Yeah.

00:57:36Uh, you kept your hair for a good chunk of your life.

00:57:39You're big and beefy.

00:57:40So do you think that the women are with you, uh, for lust?

00:57:44I think so.

00:57:45Okay.

00:57:47All right.

00:57:48So what happens after lust wears off, which is, you know, you said three to six months.

00:57:54That's typical for lust, right?

00:57:55So what happens after lust wears off?

00:58:00I think that's when they decide to move on.

00:58:03No, no, I get that.

00:58:04But, but what happens emotionally?

00:58:07Um, for me or for them?

00:58:08For them.

00:58:09Uh, they're, they're not bonding emotionally.

00:58:12Um, I'm not sure if I understand the question.

00:58:15Well, have you been in a relationship which was based on lust where you get tired of the

00:58:23lust aspect and just look at the person as a person?

00:58:26Yes.

00:58:27Okay.

00:58:27And which was that?

00:58:29Um, I'd say the first one I was talking about winter.

00:58:33Okay.

00:58:33The 40 year old's, uh, bipolar or the, uh, no, this is the 32 year old, the one that

00:58:38I work with.

00:58:39Oh, the one whose husband charged came charging back in.

00:58:42Yes.

00:58:43Cause I decided not to make it about lust and tell her, you know, Hey, if you're serious

00:58:49about this, but you hadn't, you hadn't expended a bunch of lust in that relationship.

00:58:52Is that right?

00:58:53Correct.

00:58:54Yes.

00:58:54Okay.

00:58:54So I'm talking about a relationship where you get together primarily based on physical

00:58:58attraction and what happens over time or when you wake up from that lust and you judge

00:59:05the person not as a sexual object, but as an individual.

00:59:09Um, well then, uh, there's, there's only one that really comes to mind with that because

00:59:15I think what ends up happening with me is I stay in that lust mode, but then they, they

00:59:19do not.

00:59:20Right.

00:59:20Yeah.

00:59:21It generally happens sooner with women.

00:59:22Okay.

00:59:23So if a woman wakes up and doesn't want you for sex and just judges you as an, a person

00:59:31as

00:59:32a moral agent or as an individual, what do they see?

00:59:37Is he a guy that's not really interested in somebody who has deep morals, who's makes

00:59:44decisions based on lust, um, who, who kind of is stuck in a, a bit of a childish mode.

00:59:51Mm-hmm.

00:59:52Yeah.

00:59:53I think that they would say, now, have you talked to women over the course of your life

01:00:00or the last 17 or 18 years you've been into philosophy, at least the way that I work on

01:00:04it, have you told them about your interest in philosophy and morals and virtues and things

01:00:10like that?

01:00:11I have.

01:00:12And for the most part, they just kind of gloss over.

01:00:15Right.

01:00:16So you say that you're very interested in truth, virtue, morals, reason, honesty, integrity,

01:00:23and all that kind of stuff.

01:00:25And why do you think they don't take you seriously?

01:00:29Because I'm not actually living it.

01:00:31Because you're not, yeah, not making any real decisions.

01:00:33It's like if I, if I weigh, you know, 400 pounds and I say, I'm really into dieting,

01:00:38what are people going to say?

01:00:39Yeah.

01:00:40Yeah.

01:00:40Okay.

01:00:40Whatever.

01:00:41Just sit there and look pretty.

01:00:43Right.

01:00:43Okay.

01:00:45So women, I mean, you're obviously an intelligent fellow, good conversationalist, and you have

01:00:50a good degree of self-knowledge and all of that.

01:00:52So why do you think you can't keep a woman?

01:00:56I assume it's because you're choosing women based on lust and they're choosing you based

01:01:01on lust, but they wake up sooner as women tend to in these sorts of situations.

01:01:05I think that's a fair assessment.

01:01:07Yep.

01:01:08Okay.

01:01:08All right.

01:01:09So how can I best help you in the time that we have left?

01:01:13You've already been such a help.

01:01:15This is, this is amazing stuff.

01:01:17Like, I can't believe I, I didn't see some of this stuff.

01:01:23I can't believe you waited 16 years to have a call in, but all right.

01:01:26Yeah.

01:01:28Yeah.

01:01:29And but your balls didn't want, want to call in.

01:01:31Yeah.

01:01:32You know, you're, you're right.

01:01:33There, there is a, a, what do you call it?

01:01:36A denial of, you know, that this is wrong, but you're going to continue doing it and you're

01:01:40going to, this is why I didn't tell Bob about things or, or other people.

01:01:45The whole story is because I'm afraid of what they're going to say.

01:01:48I know they're going to say, this is not a good thing.

01:01:50Well, no, but that's fine.

01:01:52We all like to hear that.

01:01:53It's not a good thing.

01:01:53You know, if, if you were about to eat a sandwich that had a spider in it and I told

01:01:58you don't

01:01:58eat, it's got to, you'd be happy.

01:02:00I told you not to do the wrong thing.

01:02:01Right.

01:02:01So it's not that it's not that, but I'm still not like, yeah, I would love to have friends

01:02:08who could just tell me this and see.

01:02:10Nope.

01:02:10No, you wouldn't.

01:02:11No, you wouldn't.

01:02:12Because if you did, you'd have them.

01:02:13So, so we have to look at the secondary gains.

01:02:16Okay.

01:02:16What are the secondary gains?

01:02:18This is the hidden benefits, right?

01:02:20Yeah.

01:02:21Why do you not apply standards of virtue to dating women?

01:02:26What's the, what's the benefit to you?

01:02:27I mean, obviously there's the sex and all of that, but the reason you're depressed is

01:02:31that, I mean, that's all running out, right?

01:02:33Yes.

01:02:34Because as you get older, the women get crazier.

01:02:37Yes.

01:02:38And as you get older, you start to run out of even the belief that you can have a family,

01:02:42right?

01:02:42Because I mean, you're, you're real close to not being able to have a family at all.

01:02:46Yes.

01:02:47Right.

01:02:48Yeah.

01:02:49So you need to start dating a woman in her early thirties and early thirties women will

01:02:56date older men based on what?

01:03:00Why would an early thirties woman not date another early thirties guy?

01:03:03Why would she date an older guy who's older, money status, money slash maturity slash both,

01:03:10right?

01:03:11Yeah.

01:03:12Now, do you have a lot of money?

01:03:13No.

01:03:14Okay.

01:03:14Do you have a lot of maturity?

01:03:16Not really.

01:03:17Do you have a lot of status that?

01:03:20Yes.

01:03:20You have status.

01:03:21Okay.

01:03:22Tell me your status.

01:03:23Um, not disagreeing.

01:03:24I just, you know, like in my career, people, I have some notoriety in my career.

01:03:30Um, I have some status of church, uh, I do some leadership things.

01:03:34A status, a status that a woman would recognize and her friends would recognize and the society

01:03:39is like, if you're really good at, if you're really good at, uh, uh, at graffiti, uh, that's

01:03:45not high status.

01:03:46You may be high status in the graffiti community to take a silly example, but you wouldn't be

01:03:49high status for a woman.

01:03:51Yeah, you're right.

01:03:52I misunderstood that.

01:03:53Um, then, then no, the answer is no, I don't have status.

01:03:56Okay.

01:03:57So no maturity, your looks are fading, um, and you're 270, right?

01:04:03That's brutal.

01:04:04Yes.

01:04:04Like you said you're, uh, binge eating because of, uh, stress boredom.

01:04:09Correct.

01:04:09Yeah.

01:04:10Okay.

01:04:10So, uh, you are not going to be able to pull a woman 10 years younger.

01:04:16Yeah.

01:04:17Cause I mean, would you say you're fat?

01:04:19Yes.

01:04:20What's your waist measurement?

01:04:22Uh, 42 inches.

01:04:24Really?

01:04:26Yeah.

01:04:26Huh.

01:04:27Where's the weight on your body?

01:04:29Are you a belly guy or back fat?

01:04:31So, so like the, my waist is, yeah, it's more of like a pot belly.

01:04:36Oh, so this is underneath your pot belly, right?

01:04:38Correct.

01:04:39Yeah.

01:04:39Okay.

01:04:40Got it.

01:04:40You got to hang up.

01:04:41Like I don't, I, yeah, I don't know the, my gut measurement.

01:04:44I'm sorry.

01:04:44Okay.

01:04:45And do you know your body fat percentage?

01:04:47I do not.

01:04:49Okay.

01:04:49What's your BMI?

01:04:51I don't know that either.

01:04:52Well, let's look it up.

01:04:53Shall we?

01:04:54Okay.

01:04:55All right.

01:04:56Uh, BMI calculator.

01:05:00I mean, it's not perfect, right?

01:05:01But it's, uh, no, but it's, it's something, right?

01:05:05Mm-hmm.

01:05:06All right.

01:05:07It's BMI calc.

01:05:08You can do it.

01:05:09You really can.

01:05:11Okay.

01:05:11So you said, uh, six foot tall and 270.

01:05:15Is that right?

01:05:16Yes.

01:05:17All right.

01:05:18Uh, let's just do it here.

01:05:21I like how it goes up to eight feet.

01:05:24It's pretty funny.

01:05:25Well, that, that would be interesting.

01:05:27All right.

01:05:28You're, uh, six feet.

01:05:31Oh, come on.

01:05:32You don't need zero inches.

01:05:33Uh, so your BMI is, yeah.

01:05:38So your BMI is 36.6 and obesity is 30 or above.

01:05:43Overweight is 25 to 29.

01:05:44Obesity is 30 or above.

01:05:46So you're so deep into obese.

01:05:48Yes.

01:05:49Okay.

01:05:50And are you still working out?

01:05:52Uh, no, I, I haven't been doing that in like four months.

01:05:56Okay.

01:05:57And why did you stop?

01:05:58Because of the depression or something?

01:05:59Yeah.

01:06:00The depression.

01:06:00I mean, you know, that's the worst thing you can do, right?

01:06:03I know.

01:06:04Okay.

01:06:05I should be working out while depressed.

01:06:08That would help, you know, it would help me raise my mood and testosterone and everything

01:06:14else, which would be a massive improvement.

01:06:17Yeah.

01:06:17Okay.

01:06:18Just, just aware.

01:06:19Okay.

01:06:19And the depression hit when?

01:06:23It started when the whole thing with summer ended.

01:06:26So that would be June of 2025.

01:06:29Okay.

01:06:29So like 10 months ago?

01:06:31Yes.

01:06:32Okay.

01:06:32Got it.

01:06:33And did it hit right away or come slowly?

01:06:35It hit right away.

01:06:37Okay.

01:06:37Got it.

01:06:39Um, all right.

01:06:41So why do you think it's, what is it trying to tell you?

01:06:44What is your depression trying to tell you?

01:06:46I think it's, it's supposed to be a wake up call to say.

01:06:50Yeah.

01:06:51Not what I think it's supposed to be like that.

01:06:53Like not what you've read or what, like, what do you think it is?

01:06:56What do you think it's trying to tell you?

01:06:58Not just a generic wake up call, but what do you think it's trying to tell you?

01:07:02I think it just feels, God, I don't know how to articulate it.

01:07:07It feels like a hopelessness, a sense of hopelessness.

01:07:11And what I think my mind should be doing with that is panic.

01:07:16Like, and then panic should turn to action, right?

01:07:20To do something with this, right?

01:07:22That I'm not doing it.

01:07:24And I think the depression is getting worse because I'm not taking action to change things.

01:07:30Okay.

01:07:31So what needs to change?

01:07:33I think the first thing I could do is start working out again.

01:07:37Okay.

01:07:38You don't need me to tell you that.

01:07:39So what else?

01:07:40Correct.

01:07:40Um, God, what I need, um, I know the obvious.

01:07:46You're right.

01:07:47I know the obvious things.

01:07:48Um, I guess what I need is, is somebody to tell me like that connection of like what it

01:07:53is that connects all of these threads to maybe that one thing, that one spark of insight that

01:07:59could be like, oh, ha, that's it.

01:08:01I knew that one thing I just need to figure out.

01:08:04Okay.

01:08:04So what, let's assume you're calling me because my approach to philosophy has some validity

01:08:11in your mind.

01:08:12Yes.

01:08:13Okay.

01:08:13So what do you expect me to say based upon what you've told me?

01:08:19Just out of curiosity.

01:08:19What's your inner Steph?

01:08:20What's your inner Steph saying?

01:08:22Inner Steph is saying, uh, you need to live virtuously.

01:08:27Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:08:28But that's very generic.

01:08:29I mean, something more specific.

01:08:31Uh, okay.

01:08:33So, um, to be specific, that would, that would translate to something like you need to,

01:08:40uh, improve your surroundings, improve your settings.

01:08:44No, no.

01:08:44Improve is too generic.

01:08:46Come on.

01:08:46Specific.

01:08:48God.

01:08:49Uh, maybe seek clarity from my parents.

01:08:51Okay.

01:08:52All right.

01:08:53So what does seek clarity?

01:08:54What does, what does that mean?

01:08:55So I don't understand why they didn't give me the advice I need, I needed to figure out

01:09:01if there's a way to fix that.

01:09:03I mean, it's almost too late, I guess.

01:09:04Well, I don't know about that, but you lie by omission with your parents because you pretend

01:09:11to have a relationship with them when you can't talk about anything important and they don't

01:09:14give you any good advice.

01:09:16Right.

01:09:16So it's just noise and, and activities and Christmas and shit, right?

01:09:20Yeah.

01:09:21Okay.

01:09:21So you don't have a real relationship with your parents.

01:09:25Correct.

01:09:25Which you're fine with because you've certainly heard me a million times say what with regards

01:09:30to parents.

01:09:32That you should, that if you don't have a good relationship with them, then what's the point

01:09:36of being, then you don't have a relationship.

01:09:38Yeah.

01:09:39Stop lying.

01:09:41Your parents have let you drift into your early forties like a teen.

01:09:46Now, of course, that's on you to some degree, but it's a little bit more on them.

01:09:50Yeah.

01:09:51So why haven't your parents intervened?

01:09:54Why haven't your parents sat you down and said, you know, we see you're kind of drifting

01:09:57or, you know, what, what do you think's going on with your dating or like, why are they content

01:10:01to have you wander into no man's land or no woman's land or no family land or anything

01:10:07like that?

01:10:08Have they, have they, have they asked you, do you want to get married and have kids?

01:10:11Have they asked you that basic question?

01:10:14No.

01:10:14Jesus, the fuck is this bullshit?

01:10:17Yeah.

01:10:19Like what the, no, seriously, what the fuck is this?

01:10:21Help me understand.

01:10:22This is nothing.

01:10:23They've never even asked you their child, their son, whether you want to get married and have

01:10:30kids.

01:10:31No.

01:10:33Why not, do you think?

01:10:35Perhaps because it would confront the fact that they were shitty parents.

01:10:41Yeah.

01:10:42Or, or they don't care.

01:10:45Yeah.

01:10:46Because they don't seem, they didn't care about how, your father didn't care about how much

01:10:50cheating would break up the family or parents didn't care about how fighting completely

01:10:54fucked up your teenage years.

01:10:56Yeah.

01:10:56They don't care to ask you about your dating.

01:10:58They don't care that you get insulted by your four year turn into lesbianism girlfriend.

01:11:03They don't care that you may want to have kids, but a dating woman who's 40 or a woman who's

01:11:07infertile, they don't care, right?

01:11:09That you're dating a woman who's separated but not divorced.

01:11:12They don't care that you're dating a woman or trying to date a woman who's recently divorced

01:11:15and is probably, like, they don't care.

01:11:17Yeah.

01:11:17They don't care.

01:11:19And you're fine with that.

01:11:21Do you notice that they don't care?

01:11:23I do.

01:11:24Yeah.

01:11:25Okay.

01:11:25So you are someone that no one can, should care about.

01:11:31That's your foundational core belief.

01:11:34I don't matter.

01:11:35I'm just a lollipop drawing of a person.

01:11:40Nobody should really care about what I want or need or how to help me achieve my goals or

01:11:44nobody should care.

01:11:45I'm irrelevant.

01:11:46I'm unimportant.

01:11:47Because you've got really selfish parents.

01:11:50I know.

01:11:51I've felt that way since I was a little kid when I was telling you that my mom would

01:11:56Okay, so why don't you fight it?

01:11:58Why do you just roll over?

01:11:59I don't know.

01:12:00Sure you do.

01:12:01I don't know.

01:12:01Stop saying that to me.

01:12:02It's a waste of time.

01:12:03Of course you do.

01:12:03You know what I'm going to say.

01:12:04Come on.

01:12:06Right?

01:12:07Why do you roll over?

01:12:08They don't want to know?

01:12:09I don't want to hear the answer?

01:12:11Well, that's by definition.

01:12:13I don't want to hear that they don't care?

01:12:15Well, but you kind of know deep down that they don't care.

01:12:17And you told me you've known that since you were a kid.

01:12:20That's true.

01:12:22Because you have no bond.

01:12:23Yeah.

01:12:24And if you have no bond, you can't criticize people.

01:12:28Yeah.

01:12:28Right?

01:12:29You can't criticize your parents, because if you criticize your parents, what are they

01:12:34going to do?

01:12:35They're going to run away?

01:12:37Yeah.

01:12:37They're going to cut you out.

01:12:38Yeah.

01:12:39Okay.

01:12:40They're going to cut you out.

01:12:42So if you were to say to your parents, you know, I really feel like you guys don't really

01:12:47care about me.

01:12:49Well, we were just giving you a space.

01:12:50You're big enough to make your own decisions.

01:12:52All this bullshit that they would say, right?

01:12:54Right.

01:12:55So if you push them on that and say, you're supposed to be giving me good advice, you

01:13:01know that, right?

01:13:02Yeah.

01:13:02Did you not notice that I wasn't settling down?

01:13:04Did you not notice that none of my relationships last beyond three months or six months?

01:13:08Did you not care?

01:13:09Well, we figured you knew what you were doing.

01:13:10It's like, I don't.

01:13:13Clearly.

01:13:15And you've never.

01:13:15Yeah, obviously.

01:13:16Yeah.

01:13:17So they've never inquired or anything like that.

01:13:19So if you were to say to your parents, you're still bad parents and you have been for 40

01:13:24years, what would they do?

01:13:26See, remember, they're hedonists because they're boomers, right?

01:13:29They're hedonists.

01:13:30So if you make them uncomfortable, if you make a hedonist uncomfortable, what does he do?

01:13:35What does she do?

01:13:35They get angry.

01:13:37And then?

01:13:37And then they disappear or they cut you out.

01:13:41Yeah.

01:13:42Yeah.

01:13:42So to hedonists, all criticisms are like sharks in the water.

01:13:46And what do people do when there's a shark in the water?

01:13:49They leave the water.

01:13:50They get the fuck out.

01:13:51Yeah.

01:13:52So hedonists can't handle.

01:13:54This is why I asked, what are your parents' moral standards?

01:13:57Because a moral standard means you suffer this discomfort for the sake of the good.

01:14:01Right.

01:14:02Right?

01:14:03What do your parents suffer for the sake of the good?

01:14:08Nothing.

01:14:09No, nothing.

01:14:10Yeah.

01:14:10They're hedonists, which means you can't bond with a hedonist because a hedonist will throw

01:14:16you overboard if you make them uncomfortable because all they care about is pleasure and

01:14:21pain.

01:14:21They have no moral principles.

01:14:24A hedonist is a narcissist by definition because the only thing that matters to them

01:14:28is their own pleasure and pain.

01:14:31So you were raised, in my view, I'm not using this term technically, I'm just an amateur

01:14:35on the internet, of course, right?

01:14:36I'm not a psychologist.

01:14:37You were raised by narcissistic hedonists.

01:14:40And so what is your template for masculinity?

01:14:44Hedonism.

01:14:44Right.

01:14:45So it's how pretty the girl is, whether she's sexually available, whether you get that special

01:14:50tingle, what you call it, electricity, the lust factor, whatever, right?

01:14:53You're not guiding your life by any principles.

01:14:55Look, you are in the business world, like you couldn't be successful if you didn't, like

01:14:58you don't cheat customers and, you know, steal from people or whatever, right?

01:15:02So I get all of that.

01:15:03But in your dating life, isn't it just hedonism?

01:15:07It is.

01:15:08It is.

01:15:09And that's the template you've given.

01:15:11That's the template that's pushed on you by society, art, the media, all this sort of

01:15:16stuff, movies, everything, right?

01:15:17Just pushing hedonism all the time, right?

01:15:20Yeah.

01:15:21So you have, and it's common in late 30s, early 40s, you reach the end of hedonism.

01:15:28Yeah.

01:15:29I think that's what the panic is about.

01:15:32Yes.

01:15:33Yeah, because you're almost out of time.

01:15:36Yeah.

01:15:37God, it hurts to think about, but so how do I get out of being hedonistic this way?

01:15:47I'm sorry.

01:15:48I'm laughing because you already know the answer.

01:15:51Well, first of all, you do an evaluation of all the people in your life to find out if

01:15:58they have any moral principles at all, and if they care about you at all.

01:16:04I mean, that's what I had to do.

01:16:05I was in my 30s, and it wasn't like I was any kind of smarter or better person.

01:16:09I just happened to have terrible insomnia because I was completely sleepwalking through

01:16:14my whole fucking life, so what you have to do, at least I think, what you have to do, at

01:16:19least

01:16:19what I did, is do people have any moral principles around me, and do they care about me at all?

01:16:28Well, so in my 20s, I was in a relationship.

01:16:31It was okay.

01:16:32It was fine.

01:16:33It wasn't terrible or anything like that, but it just wasn't able to really take off.

01:16:38Right.

01:16:40And nobody talked to me about it, and I proposed, I bought a ring, I proposed, my brother went

01:16:45me to get the ring, never said anything about it, and it would have been the wrong thing for me

01:16:49to do, and the wrong thing for the woman, too.

01:16:51We just, you know, we had enough compatibility to get along, but not enough compatibility to

01:16:55really fall in love, and nobody interfered with this.

01:17:02It was actually, you know, I proposed and all this, that, and the other, and nobody said

01:17:07anything, not my mother, not my father, not my brother, not my friends, not, nobody asked

01:17:12me if it was the right thing to do, nobody.

01:17:13Now, it was a friend of mine's girlfriend who just happened to mention, hey, you think

01:17:19a guy who's engaged would be a little bit happier?

01:17:22Yeah.

01:17:22And that was it.

01:17:23That was all, that was the only, and that comment saved my life.

01:17:27Now, like, literally saved my life, because it would have been wretched.

01:17:31And again, not because it was a terrible relationship, or she was not a terrible person or anything

01:17:35like that, but just, it was not, I tend to go all in, in things, and this was not something

01:17:40I could go all in in.

01:17:41So, my point is that all these people who'd known me for a quarter century or more didn't

01:17:47give a shit, didn't ask me questions.

01:17:49Are you happy?

01:17:50Is this the right thing?

01:17:51I know you came from a bad background.

01:17:52Are you sure this is the right way to make the decision?

01:17:54Blah, blah, blah.

01:17:55Nobody.

01:17:56It was just a friend of mine's girlfriend who happened to mention a comment in passing,

01:18:00and I was like, holy shit, I barely know this woman.

01:18:02She saved my life, she gave a passing crap about me, and the people who claimed to care

01:18:07about me didn't say a thing.

01:18:10Right?

01:18:12And I don't know if it was sabotage, I don't know if it was hedonists, it doesn't really

01:18:16matter, because none of those people are in my life anymore.

01:18:19You know, it would be like, it's like you're choking to death at a family table with 20 doctors,

01:18:27all of whom were experts in the Heimlich maneuver, and they're just watching you fucking choke

01:18:31out, pass the bread, oh, this is lovely, lovely red wine, and you're fucking choking out,

01:18:36your face is turning purple, and then some stranger comes along, gives you one swift arm

01:18:42pull to the innards, and you cough out the piece of chicken or whatever that is, and you

01:18:47look around like, holy shit, they're fucking doctors, and some stranger's got to save my

01:18:52life?

01:18:53Fuck this.

01:18:55I mean, it wasn't a two-hour conversation like I usually have, this was just a comment

01:18:58in passing that saved my life from a stranger.

01:19:04I think what you've told me today is that level for me, this is how I'm feeling right

01:19:10now, is just the advice to evaluate for moral principles, and if they actually care about

01:19:18me.

01:19:18Yeah.

01:19:18What is the evidence that the people in your life, like, we're social animals, sorry to

01:19:24be annoying, so this is, we're social animals, and what that means is that we don't make

01:19:28all the decisions on our own.

01:19:29Right.

01:19:30We don't make the decisions on our own, and what that means is that everybody is responsible

01:19:34for us, and we're responsible for everyone in our life, which is why if I see people in

01:19:39my life who I think could do better, or there's something I could help, I try to help them, and

01:19:44I expect the same in return.

01:19:46If there's something I'm not seeing, I expect people to tell me.

01:19:49Right?

01:19:50Yes.

01:19:51And so, everyone in your life is involved in things that go wrong.

01:19:57Your parents in particular, and you have a sibling, is that right?

01:20:00Yes.

01:20:01A sister?

01:20:02Yeah, younger sister.

01:20:03Fantastic.

01:20:04How much younger?

01:20:05Two years.

01:20:06Fantastic.

01:20:07How has she helped you?

01:20:08She has not.

01:20:10Okay, there you go.

01:20:11Now, your parents are more responsible than your sister, but your sister, being 39, is

01:20:15responsible.

01:20:16If she claims to care about you, why hasn't she asked you or tried to help you?

01:20:22She's got her own mess of things, too.

01:20:24Well, have you tried to help her?

01:20:26I have.

01:20:28Okay.

01:20:28So, she's still more responsible, right?

01:20:31Yeah.

01:20:32You just want to know if the people who claim to care about you are lying through their ass

01:20:38or not.

01:20:39Yeah.

01:20:40Yeah.

01:20:41Wow.

01:20:43And also, are you lying when you say you care about them?

01:20:48Yeah.

01:20:49Is it real?

01:20:51Or are you all lying when you say you love each other?

01:20:55You should know that, right?

01:20:57Yeah.

01:20:58I think my family has a lot of that.

01:21:01Just say we love each other when it doesn't matter.

01:21:05It doesn't mean anything.

01:21:06It doesn't mean anything.

01:21:07If you're in your early 40s and nobody's even asked you what the hell you want out of

01:21:10life or how they can help facilitate it, it's all bullshit.

01:21:14Yeah.

01:21:15Now, if you meet a high-quality woman, right?

01:21:19You're virtuous and honesty, has integrity, and so on.

01:21:22And she hears what you've told me today, right?

01:21:27About your family, about your life, about the people in your life.

01:21:31And she hears, oh, yeah, no, I got together with my best friend's ex-wife and didn't even

01:21:36tell him about it.

01:21:37Oh, yeah.

01:21:38I also dated this bipolar girl, and nobody in my life really warned me about it.

01:21:42Oh, yeah, and this.

01:21:43Oh, yeah, and this.

01:21:44Oh, yeah, and this.

01:21:45What's she going to say, man?

01:21:47She's going to want to run because she's going to see that this man's not living virtuously.

01:21:52Well, and he's surrounded by people who don't care.

01:21:56Yeah.

01:21:57Right?

01:21:59Yeah.

01:21:59And he doesn't even seem to know it.

01:22:01He's fine with it.

01:22:02Exactly.

01:22:02That's probably the worst thing, is he doesn't notice and doesn't care, or doesn't care.

01:22:08Right.

01:22:09Right.

01:22:11So, that's the price that you pay for having selfish, uncaring people in your life, is

01:22:20that you cannot have people who care about you in your life.

01:22:23Yeah.

01:22:24Because someone's going to look at you, and this is why you're depressed.

01:22:27So, anybody with any wisdom is going to look at you and say, wow, if he's 41,

01:22:33and he's not getting what he wants out of life, then either he's got good people in

01:22:38his life, but he doesn't care about them and doesn't listen to them, or he's got bad

01:22:42people in his life who don't care about him.

01:22:44Either way, like, you are a red flag, and this is why you're depressed, is you've got

01:22:49to not be a red flag if you're going to have people in your life who are quality, who are

01:22:55good, if that makes sense.

01:22:57It makes perfect sense.

01:22:59And I think that's what's, um, that's what is occurring.

01:23:03I, I, I'm, I'm completely in agreement.

01:23:07I think, sorry, I'm getting a little choked up.

01:23:11Yeah.

01:23:12Tell me what you think.

01:23:13This is incredible.

01:23:16I, I, I'm so thankful.

01:23:19This is, thank you so much.

01:23:21Well, of course you're welcome, but tell me, tell me what are you feeling?

01:23:24I, I'm feeling sad because I realized that the people in my life don't care about me,

01:23:30my friends, my family, and, and I'm more upset with myself for not, not caring that

01:23:38they don't care.

01:23:40I should, I should, I need to take responsibility for that as well and, and seek out the friendships

01:23:48that are based in that morality, that people can tell me the truth and that I can tell the

01:23:53truth to them, which means I also need to practice what I preach in that sense and be

01:24:00honest with people and tell them the truth.

01:24:06Well, I mean, it's, it's the old thing that we all hope, as did I, right?

01:24:10And I say this again with all humility, but we all hope that we can kind of get away without

01:24:14being really philosophical.

01:24:16Wouldn't that be nice?

01:24:17Like we can, it wouldn't it be nice if philosophy was just kind of a thing that you could just

01:24:21kind of half do and it was kind of interesting and entertaining and it's cool that Steph has

01:24:25these interesting call-in shows and, and all of that, but we don't, you know, we don't

01:24:29actually have to really do it, do we?

01:24:31Yeah.

01:24:31You know, like all the people who, um, they, uh, they watch these shows, the biggest loser

01:24:37and so on.

01:24:37It's like, you know, you can't actually do have to lose the weight, right?

01:24:41Like you do actually have to diet and all of that, but like, no, no, no, because it's

01:24:44interesting to watch fat people on treadmills and, you know, like, I don't really want to

01:24:47actually have to do it because I mean, that's a, that's a lot of work.

01:24:50Right.

01:24:50It's, it's like when, when people see some interesting hobby and they're like, I always wanted to do that

01:24:56and they never take any steps to do it.

01:24:59Right.

01:25:00Yeah.

01:25:00Like if you do this thing where, uh, I remember Prince talking about this with regards to

01:25:04the guitar, he says, you know, like he was talking about guitar hero and like, it's not

01:25:08really guitar, right?

01:25:09It's like, you know, it's tough if you have a, uh, um, if you want to learn guitar, you

01:25:14know, this tough because it's a frustrating instrument and it's, it's difficult and, and,

01:25:19uh, uh, all of that.

01:25:20But, you know, you're not really learning anything if you're just playing some video

01:25:24game, you're not actually learning any real guitar, right?

01:25:28It's just kind of, you know, like, like people think they're achieving something because they

01:25:32play video games.

01:25:33And of course, you know, everybody kind of knows that they're not, but it just is kind

01:25:37of tempting to, to feel that you are, if that makes sense.

01:25:41Yeah.

01:25:42Like playing a race cup racing game and being like, I'm a formula one driver.

01:25:46Yeah.

01:25:46I mean, it's, it's fun and there's nothing wrong with it.

01:25:48It's kind of a goofy, uh, engaging or entertaining thing, but it's not real.

01:25:52Right.

01:25:53Right.

01:25:54I also want to say that I'm feeling, I'm feeling that, that you care more about me than some

01:26:03of the people in my life.

01:26:05And you just met me in this call.

01:26:07Right.

01:26:08Right.

01:26:09Yeah.

01:26:09And I mean, the, the questions that I'm asking, uh, of course, these are questions that, you

01:26:13know, I'm not saying that everyone, like I have a peculiar level of insight, like I kind

01:26:17of always have, uh, I, I just, my brain makes these connections.

01:26:20I mean, I just kind of go along for the ride and try and talk about it as honestly as

01:26:24I

01:26:24can.

01:26:25But, uh, it's not like, um, I have some like completely remarkable skill that nobody else

01:26:32can, um, uh, can care about anyone.

01:26:35Right.

01:26:35I don't think that's true at all.

01:26:37Yeah.

01:26:38Yeah.

01:26:39But, well, I mean, I'm, I'm so grateful for this stuff.

01:26:42Thank you so much.

01:26:44You are very welcome.

01:26:45You're very welcome.

01:26:46Uh, is there anything else that I could help you with?

01:26:48I know we've given you kind of a lot to chew on to put it mildly, but.

01:26:51I think you've given me plenty.

01:26:53Um, and I really just appreciate everything.

01:26:56Uh, and I just wish I had listened to your call on shows a lot sooner.

01:27:01Yeah.

01:27:01And of course, uh, you know, people should call in before it gets to be sort of emergency,

01:27:06uh, status kind of thing.

01:27:08Yes.

01:27:09For sure.

01:27:10Anybody who's listening to this definitely don't wait till the last minute.

01:27:15Yes.

01:27:15Yeah.

01:27:15I mean, you can certainly get what you want for sure, but it's definitely, uh, you are,

01:27:20you are, uh, what is it?

01:27:21That line from finding Nemo?

01:27:23I mean, you don't have kids, so you don't have kids movies like branded into your brain,

01:27:26but it's kind of like, uh, you got serious thrill issues, dude.

01:27:30Uh, because it's like, yeah, wait till you're 41.

01:27:33That's, uh, that's very exciting.

01:27:36Yeah, exactly.

01:27:37You know, but yeah, you can certainly, you can certainly get what you want, but yeah,

01:27:41you're going to have to move pretty quick and you're going to have to clean up your

01:27:43relationships pretty quick and figure out who cares about you because you can't get

01:27:47more love in your life than your least satisfying relationship.

01:27:51And yeah, you know, like it's a chain is only as strong as its weakest links, you know,

01:27:54that kind of stuff.

01:27:55I mean, it's kind of true.

01:27:56So, um, you got to say that you're worthy of, uh, being loved and then you can get love.

01:28:02Uh, but if you have people in your life who don't particularly care about you, uh, then,

01:28:07uh, it's going to be, uh, it's going to be pretty tough to get people in your life who

01:28:11really, uh, will, uh, care about you because you just don't have that as a requirement or

01:28:17a need, if that makes sense.

01:28:18It does.

01:28:19Well, Steph, how was, how was this call for you?

01:28:21Great.

01:28:22I thought you did a great job and I really admire your sort of openness to obviously some

01:28:26pretty, pretty challenging, uh, discussions, but yeah, I think you did a great job.

01:28:30Thank you so much.

01:28:31Most impressive.

01:28:32And I'm sorry that you didn't get, of course, uh, a reasonable levels of, of, uh, you know,

01:28:37people don't have to be Carl Jung, uh, in terms of skill, but they certainly do have to just

01:28:41basically ask you what you want in life and, and see if there's a way that they can figure

01:28:44out how to provide that for you.

01:28:46That seems kind of basic to me.

01:28:48It does.

01:28:49It seems like it should just go along with the territory to a being, you want to be in

01:28:54a family or, um, in a chosen relationship with somebody that should go along with it.

01:28:59Right.

01:29:00Okay.

01:29:01All right.

01:29:01Well, listen, will you keep me posted about how things are going?

01:29:03I will.

01:29:04Thank you so much again.

01:29:06Appreciate it.

01:29:06You're very welcome, brother.

01:29:07And I hope you'll stay in touch and, uh, I'm sorry about the lack of instruction, but I'm

01:29:11sure you can get what you want.

01:29:12Thank you so much.

01:29:13Thanks brother.

01:29:14Take care.

01:29:14Bye.

01:29:15Bye.

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