Women's reservation bill: Parity push or political power play? Experts debate

India Today

The stage is set for a special three-day parliament session from tomorrow on women's reservation and delimitation of constituencies.

Transcript

00:00:00Good evening, hello and welcome. You're with the news today. This is your primetime destination news, newsmakers, talking points, the

00:00:07big talking point tonight, all set for a showdown in Parliament.

00:00:12Delimitation has now divided India's Parliament. Does the Modi government have the numbers to pass women's reservation by delimiting constituencies?

00:00:22We'll find out. My guests include Pallanivel Thyagarajan, the DMK firebrand minister. Why are South India's chief ministers up in

00:00:33arms?

00:00:34Also, truce or turmoil. Donald Trump's mixed messaging. Among my special guests will be Israel's deputy foreign minister.

00:00:44Will Israel agree to a truce now with Iran? Lots to talk about in a special 90-minute blockbuster.

00:00:54But first, as always, it's time for the Nine Headlines at Nine.

00:01:00The stage is set for a special three-day Parliament session from tomorrow on women's reservation and delimitation of constituencies.

00:01:09Despite the Prime Minister's appeal, the opposition bloc unites against the centre, says delimitation bill unacceptable, even though they will

00:01:18agree to women's quota.

00:01:23Southern states mount pressure on the centre over delimitation.

00:01:29Stalin and Vijay hit out at the bill, calling for protests in their state.

00:01:33DMK to stage black fact protests in and around Tamil Nadu, claiming that the bill will divide south from north.

00:01:44Donald Trump says Iran war is close to over as Pakistan now pushes for new peace talks, claims if U

00:01:52.S. escalates right now, it will take Iran 20 years to rebuild.

00:01:57Pakistan's army chief lands in Tehran for U.S.-Iran mediation talks.

00:02:04The TCS alleged conversion racket gets murkier.

00:02:10India today speaks to one of the victims of the sexual harassment and conversion racket, says she was repeatedly asked

00:02:17to convert by her superiors.

00:02:2119-year-old teen arrested in Amravati in Maharashtra for allegedly record and circulating obscene videos involving minor girls accused

00:02:30circulated 350 nude videos of minors.

00:02:36Enforcement directorate raids, MP Ashok Mittal, who repraced Raghav Chanda as party's deputy leader in the Rajasabha, multiple raids conducted

00:02:45across Punjab.

00:02:47Meanwhile, hours after the Punjab government withdraws Z-plus security cover for Raghav Chanda, centre steps in to provide security

00:02:54to him.

00:02:58Robert Wadra summoned by Delhi court in the Shikopur land deal money laundering case.

00:03:03Wadra charged with 58 crore land scam in 2012.

00:03:09B.R. gets a BJP chief minister for the first time.

00:03:12Samrat Chaudhary takes oath as chief minister to J.D.U. deputy chief minister Swanin alongside him.

00:03:20And the national capital stares at an early heatwave spell.

00:03:24Temperature set to touch and cross the 40-degree mark in the coming days.

00:03:39The stage is set now for a major showdown in Parliament during the special session that is to begin tomorrow

00:03:46to pass the Women's Reservation Bill.

00:03:48But an amended version that could also include delimitation of constituencies, raising the Lok Sabha's numbers from 543 MPs to

00:03:58850.

00:03:59Today, opposition parties have closed ranks and vowed to oppose the Modi government's bills.

00:04:05Rahul Gandhi claimed that the proposal to amend the bills is attempted power grab by the government by delimiting constituencies

00:04:12and giving greater powers to certain states at the cost of others.

00:04:17Listen in to what the Congress, leader of the opposition had to say.

00:04:20So, you have to make it possible.

00:04:50Let's do it. We will give you a whole plan.

00:04:53But the past work, southern states,

00:04:57we will not do your work against the small states.

00:04:59We will not do your work against the past work.

00:05:03Stop doing it.

00:05:05The past work, Dalit, Adivyasiyao, give them their rights.

00:05:10Phone line.

00:05:12Okay, we're just getting in.

00:05:13Moshmi Singh joins me for a quick update on that.

00:05:16Moshmi, that all-party meeting today,

00:05:18seemingly suggesting of the opposition leaders

00:05:20that they will not allow this bill to go through.

00:05:23The government doesn't have a two-thirds majority in the Lok Sabha.

00:05:27What are you picking up?

00:05:28Are there any fissures at all in the opposition ranks?

00:05:31Or are they determined to not allow this bill to be passed in the Lok Sabha?

00:05:40Really, do we see such a show of strength

00:05:44where even the Krenumul Congress and the Ahmadineh Party

00:05:48attend a meeting at Kargay's residence

00:05:50where Rahul Gandhi is present?

00:05:52And Uddhav Thakre and the likes of Hewan Surayn also join in.

00:05:56So clearly, you know, this is a big show of unity

00:06:00as far as the opposition against delimitation is concerned.

00:06:04The government will have to ponder over a Plan B.

00:06:08There is a caveat to the opposition's resistance

00:06:12that the Women's Reservation Bill can be implemented

00:06:15in the current strength of the Lok Sabha.

00:06:19The one-third reservation can be done

00:06:21and opposition will be okay with that.

00:06:23So one has to, it remains to be seen

00:06:27whether the government will walk the tightrope

00:06:30or whether it will look for a middle ground.

00:06:32Okay, I'm going to leave it there.

00:06:34Moshmi Singh saying that as of now,

00:06:36the opposition making it clear

00:06:37that they will accept Women's Reservation,

00:06:40one-third of 543 seats,

00:06:42but not 850 member parliament is what you're suggesting.

00:06:47Okay, I'm going to leave it there

00:06:49because this is a storm that is now threatening

00:06:51to divide India into two political halves,

00:06:58south versus north.

00:07:00The biggest opposition to delimitation

00:07:03has come from the southern states,

00:07:05flagging that the proposed exercise

00:07:07will result in their losing power

00:07:10to a more populous North India.

00:07:14And therefore, they say,

00:07:15this will threaten the federal balance in the country,

00:07:18leading the way is M.K. Stalin,

00:07:20who has threatened black flag protests

00:07:23across Tamil Nadu,

00:07:25the Tamil Nadu chief minister.

00:07:26Others like Pindrai Vijayan and Revant Reddy

00:07:29have also joined in.

00:07:31The centre is insisting

00:07:32that the southern states will not lose out.

00:07:35But now, a high-voltage showdown

00:07:37in parliament is inevitable.

00:07:40Take a look.

00:07:56The upcoming special session of parliament

00:07:59called to expedite amendments

00:08:01to the Women's Reservation Bill

00:08:03is all set to the stormiest in recent history.

00:08:07The stiffest opposition has come from the southern states.

00:08:11No sooner had the government

00:08:13circulated the three bills

00:08:14among MPs

00:08:16than leaders from the south

00:08:17raised red flags.

00:08:19The DMK has called for the revocation

00:08:22of the delimitation bill 2026,

00:08:25saying it is illegal

00:08:27and an attack

00:08:28on the federal structure of the country.

00:08:58Stalin's Telangana counterpart,

00:09:00Revant Reddy

00:09:01has demanded

00:09:02that allocation

00:09:03should also include

00:09:04contribution to GDP and growth.

00:09:08He has written letters

00:09:09to all southern CMs

00:09:11urging southern and like-minded states

00:09:13to act collectively.

00:09:16The major issues highlighted in his letter are

00:09:19widening regional imbalance

00:09:21as relative disparity will increase,

00:09:24punishing southern states

00:09:26for better controlling population growth

00:09:28and the systematic dilution

00:09:30of the voice of southern states

00:09:32in parliament.

00:09:34What Revant Reddy is suggesting

00:09:36is a balanced formula for new seats.

00:09:3850% based on population

00:09:40and 50% based on economic projections

00:09:43like GSDP

00:09:44and performance metrics.

00:09:48Karnataka leaders

00:09:49have also joined the chorus

00:09:50with Tamilnadu and Telangana

00:09:52questioning the timing.

00:09:54What is the urgency also?

00:09:56You were there in power

00:09:57for almost 13 years.

00:09:59You were supposed to do a census

00:10:01in 2021.

00:10:03But you were twiddling your thumbs.

00:10:05You didn't bother doing anything

00:10:07on the delimitation.

00:10:09You didn't bother doing the census.

00:10:10What is the hurry?

00:10:11You are doing it in 29, right?

00:10:12Finish the census quickly.

00:10:14Call for objections if necessary.

00:10:19But the BJP has hit back

00:10:21at these charges

00:10:22accusing Tamil Nadu

00:10:24and Telangana chief ministers

00:10:26of spreading false propaganda.

00:10:28He wants to deviate the issue

00:10:31apart from the basic issues

00:10:33from Tamil Nadu

00:10:34and he wants to

00:10:36because NDI is gaining

00:10:37the importance and power.

00:10:40So NDI has become

00:10:42day and day stronger.

00:10:43So he wants to project

00:10:45a wrong picture.

00:10:46So it is the false propaganda

00:10:48by the chief minister.

00:10:49People are not going to believe him.

00:10:52As this step comes

00:10:54in the midst

00:10:54of upcoming assembly polls,

00:10:56politics has heated up.

00:10:58The TVK chief

00:11:00has also joined

00:11:01the bandwagon

00:11:02stating that

00:11:03the 131st

00:11:04constitutional amendment

00:11:06should be withdrawn.

00:11:07The resistance

00:11:08from the south

00:11:09has amplified

00:11:10the tension

00:11:11between the opposition

00:11:12and the government.

00:11:15The southern states

00:11:16are mounting pressure

00:11:17and the opposition

00:11:18is amplifying

00:11:19its resistance.

00:11:20It's a battle

00:11:21of nerves

00:11:22and political maneuvers.

00:11:24The road ahead

00:11:25for the government

00:11:26seems almost impossible

00:11:28unless it finds

00:11:30a breakthrough

00:11:31amidst the clouds

00:11:32of uncertainty.

00:11:33With video journalists

00:11:35Sanjeev and Nagarjun

00:11:36Dwarakarnath

00:11:37from Bengaluru,

00:11:38this is Mosmee Singh

00:11:39in Delhi

00:11:40for India Today.

00:11:42And a short while ago

00:11:44I spoke to our first

00:11:45newsmaker tonight,

00:11:46someone who is now

00:11:47emerging as one

00:11:49of the key voices

00:11:49for the DMK government

00:11:52in Tamil Nadu

00:11:52against deal limitation.

00:11:54Listen in.

00:12:01And my first

00:12:02newsmaker today

00:12:03is a special guest

00:12:04joined by Dr. P.

00:12:05Thiagarajan,

00:12:06senior DMK leader,

00:12:07minister in the

00:12:08Tamil Nadu government.

00:12:09Appreciate

00:12:10your joining us

00:12:11here, Dr. Thiagarajan.

00:12:13We've seen today

00:12:14your chief minister

00:12:15M.K.

00:12:15Stalin saying

00:12:16that tomorrow

00:12:17Thursday will be

00:12:18declared a black day,

00:12:19that there will be

00:12:20protests across

00:12:21Tamil Nadu

00:12:22against this bill

00:12:23and delimitation.

00:12:24Is this a political

00:12:26stance motivated

00:12:27by the fact that

00:12:28there are elections

00:12:29next week in your

00:12:31state and therefore

00:12:31you're trying to stir

00:12:33an emotive

00:12:34Tamil sentiment

00:12:35or is it based

00:12:36on an objective

00:12:37assessment of the

00:12:38bill the Modi

00:12:39government is bringing

00:12:41in parliament?

00:12:42Are you stirring

00:12:42an anti-center

00:12:44Tamil sentiment

00:12:45with this agitation

00:12:46that you're

00:12:47threatening?

00:12:49Radhik, I think

00:12:50it is outrageous.

00:12:52It is beyond

00:12:53any logic.

00:12:55If it was us

00:12:56intended in

00:12:57stirring agitation,

00:12:58who decided the

00:12:58timing of bringing

00:12:59this bill?

00:13:00It's not that we

00:13:01wanted it the day

00:13:02before the election,

00:13:03right?

00:13:04Somebody brings the

00:13:05bill, they think

00:13:06that we will not be

00:13:06able to react.

00:13:07They think that when

00:13:08we do react in the

00:13:10expected way we

00:13:11would react, they

00:13:11can blame it on

00:13:12elections and us

00:13:13trying to take

00:13:14advantage.

00:13:14It is outrageous,

00:13:15it is ludicrous for

00:13:16anybody to suggest

00:13:16that.

00:13:17This is a topic that

00:13:18has been front and

00:13:19center of our minds

00:13:20for a long time.

00:13:21Our chief minister

00:13:22has spoken about it

00:13:23multiple, multiple

00:13:24times and said that

00:13:26this is a looming

00:13:27threat and the way

00:13:28it is being done on

00:13:30two days notice in a

00:13:31two-day special session

00:13:33with no kind of

00:13:34pre-announcement

00:13:35discussion, no

00:13:36question of

00:13:37consensus, no

00:13:38question of

00:13:38awareness, means

00:13:40that everything he

00:13:41has been saying

00:13:41till now has been

00:13:43more than justified

00:13:44because this is a

00:13:45complete dictatorial,

00:13:47you know, my way or

00:13:48the highway approach,

00:13:50two days notice, two

00:13:51days special session,

00:13:52right in the middle of

00:13:53state elections

00:13:54happening in five

00:13:55states.

00:13:55It couldn't be more

00:13:57grotesquely wrong than

00:13:58that.

00:14:02Okay, let me break down

00:14:04what you've just said.

00:14:05First, you're saying it

00:14:07was the government, the

00:14:07Modi government who's

00:14:08brought this bill just

00:14:09before the election, so

00:14:10don't blame us.

00:14:11But we've heard Mr.

00:14:13Stalin today say that

00:14:14if the union government

00:14:16refuses to respect

00:14:17Tamil Nadu's voice and

00:14:19steps and doesn't step

00:14:20back, you will face the

00:14:21consequences.

00:14:22The price you will pay

00:14:23will be heavy.

00:14:24As a self-respecting

00:14:26Tamil, this is my stern

00:14:27warning.

00:14:27What does that mean?

00:14:29What is the chief

00:14:30minister trying to

00:14:31convey?

00:14:32I think he is

00:14:33explicitly saying, look

00:14:35what happened to

00:14:36Tamil Nadu, to the

00:14:37union, to India when

00:14:39you tried to impose

00:14:40Hindi on us once in

00:14:42the 60s, actually once

00:14:43before in the 30s, but

00:14:44that will attribute to

00:14:45the British.

00:14:46And you see what

00:14:47resulted.

00:14:48It was complete

00:14:49breakdown of the

00:14:50social structure and

00:14:51order.

00:14:52So this is something

00:14:53that we are not going

00:14:54to take lying down.

00:14:55You look at history

00:14:57for kind of evidence

00:14:58of what it means in

00:14:59practice and tomorrow

00:15:01will be a black day

00:15:02in Tamil Nadu and

00:15:03every house will fly a

00:15:04black flag and every

00:15:05one of us will wear a

00:15:07black armband or a

00:15:08black shirt and show

00:15:09how strongly and how

00:15:12deeply we protest this

00:15:14anti-constitutional,

00:15:15anti-democratic move

00:15:17by the union.

00:15:21But let's come to

00:15:23specifics.

00:15:24Your party, your

00:15:26chief minister saying

00:15:27southern states are

00:15:28being punished for

00:15:29successfully implementing

00:15:30family planning that

00:15:31your representation in

00:15:32parliament will go

00:15:33down.

00:15:34The government says,

00:15:34look, we're going to

00:15:36proportionally

00:15:37increase all states by

00:15:3850 percent.

00:15:39So it is

00:15:40fear-mongering if you

00:15:42say that one state

00:15:43will lose out and

00:15:44other states will.

00:15:45Yeah, that's what they

00:15:45say.

00:15:46No, no, but that's

00:15:47what they say in their

00:15:48voice on the street.

00:15:49That's not what is in

00:15:51the bill.

00:15:51So first of all, I

00:15:52have to make the

00:15:53distinction.

00:15:54Anybody can say

00:15:55anything on the

00:15:56street.

00:15:56It is not binding.

00:15:58What is inside the

00:15:59document presented to

00:16:00the parliament and

00:16:01what gets processed

00:16:03and heard and

00:16:04hopefully never

00:16:05approved is the

00:16:06basis for decision

00:16:07making.

00:16:07So we have three

00:16:08profound problems

00:16:09with this bill beyond

00:16:11the fact that it

00:16:11should never have been

00:16:12brought at all.

00:16:12In fact, let me take a

00:16:13step back.

00:16:14As far as I am

00:16:15concerned, as a

00:16:16citizen of India,

00:16:17this is beyond the

00:16:19pale to the extent

00:16:20that this is a new

00:16:21India today after the

00:16:23introduction of this

00:16:24bill, and it was a

00:16:25different India before

00:16:26the introduction of

00:16:27this bill.

00:16:27This has been the

00:16:29greatest insult and

00:16:30the greatest slap to

00:16:31the notion of a

00:16:33union of states,

00:16:34federal society that

00:16:35was envisioned by the

00:16:36constitutional fathers,

00:16:37and this is

00:16:39completely going to

00:16:41change the dynamic

00:16:42and the relationship

00:16:43between the southern

00:16:44states and the

00:16:45union, and it is

00:16:47going to breach the

00:16:48trust that had been

00:16:49built over 70, 75

00:16:50years.

00:16:51So let us start from

00:16:52that point.

00:16:53On that point, I

00:16:54say, I will not be

00:16:56allowed to go without

00:16:59significant kind of

00:17:01explanation of these

00:17:03three, four issues.

00:17:04First issue, why

00:17:05rushing to do this?

00:17:06Second issue, why are

00:17:08you asking for blanket

00:17:09approval without any

00:17:11details?

00:17:11You have not said

00:17:12what the basis of

00:17:13delimitation will be.

00:17:14You have not said who

00:17:15the members of the

00:17:16commission will be.

00:17:17You have not said what

00:17:18the terms of reference

00:17:19given to them will be.

00:17:19You have said that like

00:17:21in previous delimitations

00:17:22that they cannot be

00:17:23challenged in a court of

00:17:24law.

00:17:24So here you're asking

00:17:25for a blank check.

00:17:27We know from experience

00:17:28what happened to the

00:17:30appointment of the

00:17:30chief election

00:17:31commissioner after the

00:17:33Supreme Court had

00:17:33given the order.

00:17:34They went and passed

00:17:35the legislation that

00:17:36basically took out the

00:17:37Supreme Court chief

00:17:37justice and brought

00:17:38themselves into a

00:17:39majority so they can

00:17:40appoint whoever they

00:17:41want.

00:17:41This dictatorial tendency

00:17:43is not make-believe.

00:17:44It's not like, you

00:17:45know, hyperbole.

00:17:47It's not like hypothetical.

00:17:48It has been seen in

00:17:50practice.

00:17:50So here we have a

00:17:51deeply flawed bill that

00:17:53doesn't commit anything

00:17:55at all.

00:17:56It says that we will

00:17:57decide to do whatever

00:17:58we do, whenever we do,

00:17:59and you cannot challenge

00:18:00it in court.

00:18:01How is that acceptable

00:18:02to any thinking person?

00:18:07No, no.

00:18:08Let me, you see, the fact

00:18:09is, as you said, the

00:18:11home minister has on more

00:18:12than one occasion said

00:18:13they will ensure that the

00:18:15southern states don't lose

00:18:16out.

00:18:17You obviously don't trust

00:18:18it because you're saying

00:18:19in the bill itself, there

00:18:20is no mention of the 50%

00:18:22increase uniformly across

00:18:24the states.

00:18:25So tomorrow, if on the

00:18:26floor of the parliament,

00:18:27that assurance was to be

00:18:29given, that 50% will be

00:18:30increased.

00:18:31So Tamil Nadu will go,

00:18:32let's say, from 40,

00:18:33including Puducherry, to

00:18:3460.

00:18:35UP will go from 80 to

00:18:37120.

00:18:38Maharashtra will go from

00:18:3948 to 72.

00:18:41Will that be acceptable

00:18:42if they agree in

00:18:43principle 50%?

00:18:45No, no.

00:18:45Or are you saying that's

00:18:46not good enough?

00:18:47Absolutely not acceptable

00:18:49for three reasons.

00:18:50One, why this 50%?

00:18:52They happen to decide

00:18:5350%.

00:18:54That itself is going to

00:18:55be a problem because

00:18:56though it increases

00:18:56pro rata in terms of

00:18:58the numbers required to

00:18:59get majority or the

00:19:01numbers required to

00:19:02kind of get 2,000

00:19:03majority, it again

00:19:04skews the outcome.

00:19:05This is just

00:19:06mathematics.

00:19:07It skews it further

00:19:08towards the north than

00:19:09it does to the south.

00:19:10That's the separate

00:19:11issue.

00:19:11The second issue, which

00:19:13is even more important

00:19:14than the first, is

00:19:14why should it not be in

00:19:16the bill?

00:19:17What is the word of a

00:19:19minister who can stand

00:19:20and say whatever they

00:19:21want compared to what

00:19:23is in the text of the

00:19:24bill when it is passed

00:19:25in the House?

00:19:26That text, if it is not

00:19:27followed, can be

00:19:28constitutionally challenged

00:19:29or judicially challenged.

00:19:31Somebody says something

00:19:32on the House, let's say

00:19:32they don't follow through

00:19:33with it.

00:19:34It's only a privileged

00:19:35motion in the House.

00:19:36That's the extent of it.

00:19:37Right?

00:19:37So, not only is it the

00:19:39wrong number, we're not

00:19:40quite happy with 50, not

00:19:41only is it not in the

00:19:42bill, the third question

00:19:44is the process itself is

00:19:46flawed.

00:19:46Where is the

00:19:47consultation?

00:19:47You're changing the

00:19:48country profoundly.

00:19:50Great leaders like

00:19:51Thirumadi Indra Gandhi,

00:19:53like Thiruatul Bihari

00:19:54Vajpayee, thought that

00:19:55it was better to not

00:19:57open this can of worms

00:19:58and kick it down for

00:19:5925 years.

00:20:00Here we have a process

00:20:01that has been solved

00:20:02for 50 years.

00:20:03Being changed like that.

00:20:05Sir, but you can't

00:20:05kick it down.

00:20:07Sir, but you can't

00:20:09kick it down endlessly.

00:20:10The point is, Dr.

00:20:12Thiragraja, we have

00:20:13now become a

00:20:14solution that you

00:20:19think is better than

00:20:20kicking the can down

00:20:21the road.

00:20:21Let's you and I have

00:20:22an intellectual debate.

00:20:23Tell me.

00:20:24I'll tell you why

00:20:25kicking the can down

00:20:26the road is much

00:20:27better than anything

00:20:27else.

00:20:28Let me tell you,

00:20:29then you argue with

00:20:30me.

00:20:30You argue first,

00:20:31then I'll argue back.

00:20:32You go first.

00:20:34Yes.

00:20:35No, you go first.

00:20:36You go first.

00:20:36You tell me why

00:20:37I can't kick the can

00:20:38It's you who has to

00:20:39answer the question.

00:20:39Okay, I'll go first.

00:20:41Then let me tell you.

00:20:42I'll tell you why.

00:20:42Because you're in a

00:20:43country now where

00:20:44several...

00:20:44You can't make it up

00:20:46as you go.

00:20:47Several Lok Sabha

00:20:48constituencies...

00:20:48Which one?

00:20:49No, no, I'm telling

00:20:50you.

00:20:50Several Lok Sabha

00:20:51constituencies are

00:20:5230 lakhs and more.

00:20:53Several Lok Sabha

00:20:54constituencies are

00:20:5525, 30 lakhs.

00:20:56They need to...

00:20:57You need delimitation.

00:20:58There cannot be an

00:20:59endless freeze.

00:21:01I say that you can do

00:21:03delimitation within the

00:21:04existing number of

00:21:05seats within the state

00:21:06and not have a problem

00:21:07with doing that.

00:21:08You can still keep the

00:21:09freeze on the number of

00:21:10states.

00:21:10It has happened before.

00:21:11It has happened in

00:21:12Tamil Nadu.

00:21:14In Tamil Nadu, we have

00:21:15234 MLAs.

00:21:16Some MLA constituencies

00:21:17are only 1,20,000.

00:21:19Some MLA constituencies

00:21:20are 6 lakh.

00:21:21They need delimitation.

00:21:22But it can be done with

00:21:23234 as the number.

00:21:25It doesn't require me to

00:21:27change the number to do

00:21:27that.

00:21:28What's your answer to

00:21:29that?

00:21:33Well, my answer is that

00:21:35you still have large,

00:21:36unmanageable constituencies.

00:21:37Many believe you need

00:21:38smaller constituencies.

00:21:39More importantly, the

00:21:40question is you're not

00:21:41against women's

00:21:42reservation.

00:21:43You want one-third of

00:21:44women's reservation.

00:21:45If you want one-third of

00:21:46women's reservation, the

00:21:47government is suggesting

00:21:48they claim a way out by

00:21:49increasing the number of

00:21:51seats so that you

00:21:52effectively are able to

00:21:54accommodate one-third

00:21:55women without necessarily

00:21:56discriminating against

00:21:58those who may want to

00:21:59continue to contest in

00:22:00elections.

00:22:00The point the government

00:22:02is making is that the

00:22:03freeze was always

00:22:04temporary.

00:22:04It was never meant to be

00:22:06permanent.

00:22:07Do you agree with that

00:22:08or not?

00:22:10Aziz, sometimes I wonder

00:22:11whether you argue for the

00:22:13sake of arguing because I

00:22:14know you're a thoughtful

00:22:15person and you're not

00:22:16parroting the line of the

00:22:17government, but sometimes

00:22:18you talk for so long as if

00:22:19you're like an advocate in

00:22:21the court continuing to

00:22:22like take their position to

00:22:24the judge.

00:22:24Why don't you make your

00:22:25point briefly and stop?

00:22:26You keep saying 16 things.

00:22:27Let me tell you in reply.

00:22:30I'm saying let us leave the

00:22:32women's reservation aside

00:22:33for a second.

00:22:33Women's reservation can be

00:22:34done in many ways.

00:22:35It can be one-third of the

00:22:36existing seats.

00:22:37It doesn't need one-third

00:22:38more seats to be reserved.

00:22:40This is the kind of

00:22:41smokescreen obfuscation that

00:22:43this government specializes

00:22:45in.

00:22:45My point is there is a

00:22:48clean and elegant solution

00:22:49which our chief minister

00:22:51bringing all the southern

00:22:53states together have

00:22:54requested a continued

00:22:55freeze for another 25 or

00:22:5730 years.

00:22:58Why is that a clean and

00:22:59elegant solution?

00:23:00Because any other

00:23:01solution is going to be

00:23:02much more complicated than

00:23:04that.

00:23:04And I will tell you two

00:23:06reasons.

00:23:06Let me please finish

00:23:07before you again start

00:23:09becoming the lawyer of

00:23:10the government.

00:23:11Let me tell you two

00:23:12reasons why I think it is

00:23:13not such a big deal if

00:23:15there is a disproportional

00:23:17representation by the

00:23:19number of citizens per

00:23:20MLA or MP.

00:23:22First, at this point, the

00:23:24legislatures are mere rubber

00:23:26stamps for the executive

00:23:28anyway.

00:23:29The way that the system has

00:23:31evolved, especially with the

00:23:33anti-defection bill, it is

00:23:34not that there are five

00:23:36hour, eight hour debates.

00:23:37What is the point of a

00:23:38legislature when bills such

00:23:40as this can get passed on

00:23:4124 hours, 48 hours?

00:23:43How does it matter how many

00:23:44legislators you have?

00:23:45The only thing that matters

00:23:47is how many legislators you

00:23:49need to form the government.

00:23:50That is the only thing that

00:23:51this prime minister and

00:23:52home minister are interested

00:23:53in.

00:23:54If they were really worried

00:23:56about debate and saying let

00:23:57more people have a voice,

00:23:58there would be hundreds of

00:23:59hours of debate in the Loksabha

00:24:01about this particular

00:24:03problem because it is such

00:24:05as structurally changing the

00:24:06constitution and the nature

00:24:07of our country problem.

00:24:09So there is not really any

00:24:10debate going on there.

00:24:11Tell me the last time any MP

00:24:13spoke for more than eight or

00:24:14ten minutes or any MP's

00:24:15discussion changed the course

00:24:17of a bill.

00:24:17Never.

00:24:18Not in the last 10 years, 15

00:24:19years.

00:24:20Second point I'm saying, if

00:24:22this is a government that is

00:24:23so, so, so principled about

00:24:26equality of representation, this

00:24:28is the government that has

00:24:29enacted a GST law that says

00:24:31one state, one vote, and

00:24:33Arunachal Pradesh that pays

00:24:35in 0.1% of the annual taxes

00:24:37of the government of India

00:24:38gets the same vote as

00:24:40Maharashtra that pays in 18%

00:24:43or Tamil Nadu that pays in 12

00:24:45or 15%.

00:24:46And that is considered

00:24:47acceptable.

00:24:48Why is it that that is okay?

00:24:50That's even more grotesque,

00:24:52disproportionate representation

00:24:53than the one that you're

00:24:55talking about.

00:24:59You know, the fact is that you

00:25:02have your chief minister saying

00:25:03that why are the states of the

00:25:06south being punished for

00:25:07contributing to India's

00:25:08progress?

00:25:09Many of them are high growth

00:25:10states.

00:25:10Now, Revant Reddy, the

00:25:11Telangana chief minister,

00:25:13suggested a hybrid formula.

00:25:1450% based on population, 50%

00:25:17based on GSTP.

00:25:19Do you agree with that, that

00:25:20you can have a formula of

00:25:22population and growth come

00:25:24together, do you believe

00:25:25therefore you are open to the

00:25:26idea of consultation on

00:25:28finding a new model that can

00:25:30at least lift this freeze on

00:25:31seats and thereby have a more

00:25:33workable consensual formula?

00:25:37Rajdeep, let me put it two ways.

00:25:38I think the first is that based

00:25:40on everything I have ever seen

00:25:42in the world and all the

00:25:43experience I have, in the

00:25:46uncertainty that we face today,

00:25:47the world is going through

00:25:48great uncertainty, the world

00:25:50order as we knew it in terms of

00:25:51post-World War II till 2025,

00:25:54is now broken truly completely

00:25:57by trade tariffs, by wars, by

00:26:00breakdowns of alliances such as

00:26:01NATO, by increasing irrelevance

00:26:04of things like WTO, UN.

00:26:06Therefore, we are in a very

00:26:07volatile world.

00:26:09By technology, the advent of AI

00:26:12and the automation of white

00:26:13collar work is going to

00:26:14dramatically change the world.

00:26:15In this great flux, in this great

00:26:18volatility, in my personal

00:26:20opinion, there can be many, many

00:26:22solutions that will improve the

00:26:24outcome while still maintaining

00:26:25the freeze for the first 30 or

00:26:27next 30 years, as has been

00:26:28advocated and requested by the

00:26:30southern state chief ministers in

00:26:32their collective request.

00:26:34If you say, I am a purist, I say

00:26:37that I still need to do

00:26:38delimitation, fine.

00:26:39Well, let me just finish, please.

00:26:40If you say, I'm a purist and you

00:26:42say, I need to do delimitation,

00:26:44surely there must be 20 or 200

00:26:46better formulas than one passed

00:26:48overnight with a blank check to the

00:26:50government of India, you won't tell us

00:26:51the formula, you won't tell us the

00:26:53commission members, and we must agree

00:26:55like before, that is not subject to

00:26:57judicial review.

00:26:57How is any reasonable human being to

00:27:00take this as comfort and pass this bill?

00:27:07So, are you clear that if this bill

00:27:10is sought to be bulldozed, the word

00:27:12that the opposition is using now, and

00:27:15being your advocate for a moment, if

00:27:17this bill is sought to be bulldozed, you

00:27:19still, the government doesn't have a

00:27:20two-thirds majority in Lok Sabha, you

00:27:23expect the opposition to hold

00:27:25together, am I correct?

00:27:26You believe this bill will be defeated

00:27:28in parliament?

00:27:29Yeah, I don't believe and trust this

00:27:33government to do or this parliament

00:27:34do anything.

00:27:35I can't believe that the speaker and

00:27:37the chairman, vice chairman of the

00:27:39Rajasabha rejected the impeachment

00:27:41motion without even considering it when

00:27:43it was signed by the right number of

00:27:44MPs.

00:27:44We don't live in a country which

00:27:46follows the rule of law or the

00:27:48procedure code of the parliament or

00:27:49the legislatures anymore.

00:27:51Let's be clear.

00:27:51So, anything can happen.

00:27:53But if you ask me, will there be hugely

00:27:56negative consequences if such a

00:27:58draconian bill is passed?

00:28:00My chief minister has spoken.

00:28:02I follow him.

00:28:06Are those consequences that you fear

00:28:08that India will get balkanized,

00:28:11northwest divide?

00:28:12Is that fear-mongering or do you believe

00:28:14that is a genuine fear that this bill

00:28:16has raised?

00:28:17No, no, no.

00:28:18I 100% agree.

00:28:19And as far as I am concerned, let's not

00:28:21even wait for the passage of the bill.

00:28:23The fact that such a bill has been

00:28:25introduced after years of southern states

00:28:29expressing a fear of exactly such an

00:28:32action itself, you have transformed the

00:28:35country.

00:28:36You have today, like you remember, let me

00:28:38just give you an example.

00:28:39I was asked to give a speech on the new

00:28:41world order at some big convention center

00:28:43conference on the 1st of March.

00:28:46For, you know, the amount of work

00:28:49available, I was not able to write.

00:28:50I know I always speak off the top of my

00:28:51head, but I write up some bullet points

00:28:53and I go.

00:28:54In this case, I was so busy, I couldn't

00:28:55even write the bullet points.

00:28:56And then I went on March 1st and I said,

00:28:58I'm sorry I haven't prepared anything.

00:29:00But in a way, it's good I haven't

00:29:02prepared anything because the new world

00:29:03order, as I would have talked about on

00:29:05February 28th, would have been irrelevant

00:29:07on March 1st because on the night of

00:29:09February 28th, Israel and U.S.

00:29:11have bombed Iran and we are now in a

00:29:13different world order on March 1st than

00:29:16we were on February 28th.

00:29:17As far as I'm concerned, the introduction

00:29:20of this bill and the manner of its

00:29:22introduction, we are already in a

00:29:23different India today than we were two

00:29:26days ago.

00:29:27The amount of mistrust, the amount of

00:29:29fear, the amount of kind of uncertainty

00:29:33this has shown in the people of southern

00:29:35India, in the people of Tamil Nadu is so high

00:29:39that it is a wound to the integrity.

00:29:42It is a stain on the fabric of the unity

00:29:45in India already.

00:29:48Right.

00:29:48It will only get worse from here.

00:29:51Okay.

00:29:53I'm going to leave it there.

00:29:54Those are very strong words that you come up

00:29:56with.

00:29:57I just want to tell you, Dr.

00:29:59Pityagarajan, I'm not the government's

00:30:00advocate.

00:30:01I'm not the opposition's advocate.

00:30:02My job is to ask questions of all.

00:30:05I appreciate, though, that you've taken the

00:30:07questions in the right spirit and given me

00:30:10your strong viewpoint.

00:30:11Always good to have you on the show.

00:30:13Thank you very much.

00:30:14Thanks.

00:30:15Thanks for having me.

00:30:18Remember, this is a huge issue.

00:30:20So I want to widen the debate.

00:30:22Let's first look at the numbers game in the

00:30:24Lok Sabha.

00:30:25Lok Sabha strength 540.

00:30:27Government will need two-thirds majority to

00:30:29pass this very important bill.

00:30:31360 MPs.

00:30:32NDA government at the moment has 293.

00:30:35India block 234.

00:30:37So the numbers, unless the opposition breaks,

00:30:40are not in favor of the government.

00:30:42Rajya Sabha, 245.

00:30:45Government needs two-thirds majority again.

00:30:47163 MPs.

00:30:48NDA has 134.

00:30:50India block 74.

00:30:51Others 37.

00:30:53Some of whom could well vote with the

00:30:54government.

00:30:54may be a tad easier to pass it,

00:30:57therefore, in the Rajya Sabha.

00:30:59But why is the government insistent on this

00:31:02bill being passed in this form?

00:31:04Should there have been consultations?

00:31:06Is this being bulldozed, as the opposition

00:31:08alleges, or an idea whose time has come?

00:31:11Aparajita Sarangi, Member of Parliament,

00:31:13Lok Sabha, BJP, Supriya Srinath,

00:31:15Chairperson, Congress of Social Media,

00:31:16Digital Platform joins us.

00:31:18Aparajita Sarangi, you might have heard

00:31:20what Mr. Pete Thyagarajan, the Tamil Nadu

00:31:24minister, had to say.

00:31:25He says this bill will divide India,

00:31:28change India completely.

00:31:30It is unacceptable that you

00:31:32bulldoze such a major bill in this manner.

00:31:35Your response, ma'am.

00:31:41All those who are opposing the three bills

00:31:43that would come to the Lok Sabha tomorrow

00:31:46are anti-women.

00:31:47We have waited for 27 years for this bill

00:31:51to be passed.

00:31:52And we really want our rightful place

00:31:55in the Lok Sabha and in the state

00:31:57assemblies.

00:31:59Since 1996, September, all of us

00:32:01have been waiting and 27 years gone.

00:32:04And here is a government, here is a

00:32:05prime minister who has, who have been

00:32:08wanting to ensure that this 50% of the

00:32:11population of the country get their due.

00:32:14And now that the time has come, it's

00:32:16always better to go to the Lok Sabha

00:32:17with a very open mind tomorrow.

00:32:20And as far as Nari Shakti, one of the

00:32:23minimum 2023 is concerned.

00:32:24Ma'am, with due regard, you're saying,

00:32:26I, ma'am, you're saying that this bill

00:32:28is an idea whose time has come.

00:32:30You're saying that the prime minister

00:32:31is committed to women's reservation.

00:32:32The bill was passed in 2023, the

00:32:34women's reservation.

00:32:35Why suddenly in the month of April

00:32:382026 in the, in the middle of an

00:32:40election campaign, do you now choose

00:32:42to link women's reservation to

00:32:43delimitation that too, based on a

00:32:452011 census, the questions will be

00:32:48asked.

00:32:48What were you doing for the last

00:32:49three years?

00:32:50You could, you, and the opposition is

00:32:52saying you can pass it with 543

00:32:53members.

00:32:54Give 181 seats, one third to women.

00:32:57Why are you suddenly linking it to

00:32:58delimitation in a non-transparent

00:33:02manner?

00:33:07What is non-transparent about it, I

00:33:09fail to understand.

00:33:11Never ever the bills are circulated

00:33:14before they are placed in the Lok Sabha

00:33:16by the minister.

00:33:17And this is for the first time that a

00:33:19couple of days back, the bills have

00:33:21been circulated.

00:33:22And all the members of the

00:33:23What is the formula for delimitation,

00:33:24ma'am?

00:33:24have copies of the bills.

00:33:26What is the formula for delimitation?

00:33:28You've been an IAS officer, you know

00:33:29better.

00:33:30What is the formula for delimitation?

00:33:31I am coming to that, Mr. Sardesai.

00:33:33I am coming to that.

00:33:35I am coming to that.

00:33:36In September 2023, when the bill was

00:33:40passed, I remember, it was very clear, it

00:33:42was midnight and I was party to it, I was

00:33:44very much in the Lok Sabha.

00:33:46It was unanimous passage of the bill.

00:33:48Everybody said in one voice, we want the

00:33:50passage.

00:33:51And everybody knew that census and

00:33:53delimitation had to take place.

00:33:55And you know, at that point of time, I

00:33:57remember all these opposition party

00:33:58people had, in fact, urged the prime

00:34:01minister to ensure that the bill where

00:34:03the adhenium was implemented immediately.

00:34:07Now that we are trying to implement the

00:34:09adhenium and we want to have it from

00:34:122029 general elections, these people are

00:34:15shifting the goalpost.

00:34:16So the fact remains that, as I told

00:34:18earlier, I please don't mind my saying,

00:34:20but I think these people do not want to

00:34:22see 273 women sitting in the Lok Sabha.

00:34:25I mean, that is something which they do

00:34:28not like.

00:34:28And that is why this particular thing is

00:34:30happening.

00:34:31See, census and delimitation will have to

00:34:34be done.

00:34:35But, no, can I just let me complete?

00:34:37Yeah.

00:34:381971, the census took place, 548 million

00:34:41population.

00:34:42So that's 54.80 crore population.

00:34:46Today, the population is 1.4 billion 140

00:34:49crore.

00:34:50Naturally, the delimitation has to come

00:34:52because we have to draw the territorial

00:34:54constituencies, which have not been done

00:34:57since 1976.

00:34:59It's long due.

00:35:00So I think it is, I think as we move in

00:35:04this democratic journey, many things will

00:35:07be taken cognizance of which needed to be

00:35:09done and which would be done.

00:35:11I remember these people cried hoarse when

00:35:14we said goodbye to Article 370 and 35A,

00:35:18passage of Triple Talaq Bill, Citizen

00:35:20Amendment Act.

00:35:21So whenever historic things have happened,

00:35:23these people have opposed.

00:35:24They are opposing, but they don't know that

00:35:26this time they are opposing 50% of the

00:35:28population.

00:35:29Okay.

00:35:29I'm going to get Supriya Srinath respond.

00:35:31According to the BJP, their commitment to

00:35:34women's reservation, even in 2023, linked it to

00:35:37delimitation and census.

00:35:39Albert, in that case, it was the census of

00:35:412026 and the delimitation would follow.

00:35:49Good evening to you, to the viewers and of

00:35:51course to my fellow panelists.

00:35:52It is dubious and the double speak is

00:35:55absolutely shocking.

00:35:57Listen to the Prime Minister when he says

00:35:59hypocrisy ki bhi sewa hoti hai.

00:36:01The reality is that 30 months back in

00:36:04September 2023, when the women's reservation

00:36:07bill was brought, of which the Congress

00:36:09Party is the flag bearer, I would want to

00:36:12reassert that.

00:36:13We said pass it without conditions, give

00:36:17OBC women reservations within that quota

00:36:20itself.

00:36:20And at that time, the Prime Minister put many

00:36:24riders on that bill, which included the

00:36:26census and delimitation.

00:36:28Had he not done that, had he made the 2023

00:36:31women's reservation bill free of these

00:36:33riders, we would have seen more women

00:36:35parliamentarians be elected in 2024.

00:36:37So please stop your dubious double speak.

00:36:40And the one thing we as women are not going to

00:36:43allow to do is, we must not hide behind the

00:36:46women's reservation bill while dividing this

00:36:48country.

00:36:48That's what this government is attempting to do.

00:36:50And I will now make a broader point.

00:36:52There is absolute consensus on the women's

00:36:54reservation bill.

00:36:55It has been passed by the constitution.

00:36:57There was a constitution amendment that

00:36:59happened 343A just 30 months back.

00:37:02What has conspired in the 30 months that he

00:37:04suddenly wants to now change that constitution

00:37:06amendment, which was brought by them.

00:37:08Because the government, because the government,

00:37:10Supriyar Sinead says that the, Supriyar Sinead

00:37:13ma'am, the government says the 2026 bill, 2026

00:37:16census will take time.

00:37:18After that will be delimitation.

00:37:20All of that will mean that women will not get one

00:37:22third reservation there in 2029.

00:37:25Hence, it is a necessity according to the

00:37:27government to do it at this stage itself as fast as

00:37:30possible, link it to 2011 instead of 2026.

00:37:36Absolutely.

00:37:38You may be as naive as this to buy the

00:37:40government's argument.

00:37:41I am not.

00:37:42And everybody in this country, from the states

00:37:45in the east to the states in the northeast to the

00:37:48states in the south, everybody understand what's

00:37:51happening in this cloak and dagger situation.

00:37:52And I will now go to my second point and that's an

00:37:55important point to raise because the people who

00:37:57are trying to assume credit for the women's

00:37:59reservation bill, Lalkrish Radwani, Atal Bihari

00:38:01Vajpayee, Ram Jeth Malani and Jasvan Singh, the

00:38:04tall leaders of the BJP, voted against women's

00:38:07reservation in 1989 when Rajiv Gandhiji brought the

00:38:10Panchayati Raz reservation bill which guaranteed

00:38:13one third reservation for women which was

00:38:15eventually passed by the 73rd and the 74th

00:38:18amendment which ensured there are 15 lakh elected

00:38:20women representatives.

00:38:22So, they cannot look away.

00:38:23This is what they are thinking is.

00:38:24They do believe women are second class citizens.

00:38:26You look at the RSS, you will know that.

00:38:28I don't want to talk about the women's reservation bill

00:38:30because there is an absolute consensus on it.

00:38:33It has been passed as a part of the constitution.

00:38:34I want to talk about what this government is trying to do.

00:38:37This government is trying to amend about five articles.

00:38:41Article 55, 81, 82, 170, 332, 330 and 334A.

00:38:47Why are they trying to do that?

00:38:49Point number one.

00:38:50The government is trying to bring in a flawed,

00:38:53undemocratic delimitation while hiding behind the women's reservation bill.

00:38:58The government is trying to take away the constitution's right to decide when will delimitation be.

00:39:05The government is also trying to take away the constitutional provision as to what constitutes the population.

00:39:12Because unlike what they may tell source based information that's coming of assurances of 50%,

00:39:18I will give you figures and those figures speak the truth.

00:39:22The language in the bill is a huge giveaway.

00:39:25The reality is that the government categorically in that bill has put

00:39:28that by a simple majority in the Lok Sabha or in parliament,

00:39:33the government can assume which census will be used,

00:39:36which is how the 2011 census is being used.

00:39:38The 2011 census has passed its sell-by date.

00:39:42That's the reality.

00:39:43Its sell-by date is over.

00:39:45There are 10 crore people who are out of the food security act

00:39:48because the census has not been updated.

00:39:50Were you twiddling your thumb since 2021 when the census had to be?

00:39:55The second point, Rajdeep, and this is a very important point,

00:39:58please allow me to make this point without an interruption

00:40:00because this is where the fear is.

00:40:03I heard you speak to PTR.

00:40:04I am going to make a simple point which your viewers must hear of.

00:40:08The combined representation of the southern states right now is about 24%.

00:40:14It's a little over 24%.

00:40:16For practical purposes, let's say 24%.

00:40:19After delimitation, that will come down to 20%.

00:40:25But guess what?

00:40:27The combined representation of five northern states from 37% will go up to 43%.

00:40:34And the story is same for the east.

00:40:36The story is same for the northeast.

00:40:38Just to tell you, the proportionate representation is coming down for all of these states.

00:40:43Ma'am, I have put those numbers on the screen.

00:40:45I have put those numbers on the screen.

00:40:47I have put those numbers.

00:40:49And which brings me, Aparajita Sarangi, to the key question.

00:40:51The Home Minister is saying we will increase by 50% proportionately all the seats.

00:40:56So UP will go from 80% to 120%.

00:40:58Why is it not a part of the bill?

00:41:00No, no, just a minute.

00:41:01Why is it not a part of the bill?

00:41:02Ma'am, let me be the anchor.

00:41:05The Aparajita Sarangi, the fact is that this is not in the bill.

00:41:09The Home Minister is going to public rallies and saying I will increase it by 50%.

00:41:14Put it in the bill.

00:41:15Therefore, the fear is you want to use this to do gerrymandering.

00:41:19You want this to do constitutionally to suit the BJP.

00:41:22You will bring down the number of seats for the south if it's purely on population.

00:41:26And that's why you're not in power.

00:41:28And you will increase it in the Hindi heartland.

00:41:30That's the fear.

00:41:31Why don't you put it in the bill?

00:41:3250% proportionate.

00:41:34Why didn't the Home Minister put it in the bill then?

00:41:40Very good question.

00:41:42But I would definitely like to respond to what Supriya Ji just said.

00:41:45No, first answer that and then you can answer the other words.

00:41:46Before I come to your question, Mr. Sarvesa.

00:41:48See, the point, the fact remains that 2011 census.

00:41:55Now, we are talking of the allocation of seats.

00:41:57I'm coming to your question.

00:41:58We are talking of the allocation of seats now.

00:42:01Now, allocation of seats, if we would have taken 2011 census population figures

00:42:06and then we would have allocated, I think it would have been absolutely wrong.

00:42:10I feel, you would have felt that, you know, the southern states are at a disadvantage.

00:42:16Now, here, the Home Minister on the floor of the House today or tomorrow

00:42:20would definitely be talking about this 50% increase in all the states,

00:42:26all the states and union territories.

00:42:27So, there is no question of discrimination at all.

00:42:30So, it is a proportionate increase and I understand it is not in the bill,

00:42:35but there would be suggestions and I'm sure there would be deliberations on this.

00:42:39Now, how can you not put it in the bill, ma'am?

00:42:41Such a major thing which will change the political map of the country.

00:42:45You want people to trust A.

00:42:46B, you in 2026, you're telling people to go by 2011.

00:42:51India has grown, population has grown.

00:42:53What stops you from going through the census?

00:42:55Do the census in one year, do it digital and do it for 2029.

00:42:59Instead, you're going back to 2011.

00:43:02Why are you going back to 2011 then?

00:43:07Women, women of the country cannot wait.

00:43:09Census and delimitation exercises would take a lot of time.

00:43:13I'll just give you an example.

00:43:14So, why did you know this in 2023?

00:43:15The 2002 delimitation actually gave their set of recommendations in 2003.

00:43:19With due regard, what were you doing for three years?

00:43:22Why have you suddenly opened up five days before Bengal and Tamil Nadu is going to the polls?

00:43:26Seven, eight years it takes.

00:43:30Not at all.

00:43:31Please don't link it with the elections.

00:43:33Two states have already gone for elections.

00:43:35Two states are absolutely closed.

00:43:37If this is the logic, we would have done it before the Kerala and Assam elections.

00:43:41I mean, that is not the logic that I buy from you.

00:43:43Okay.

00:43:44Now, the issue is, Supriya just talked about OBC.

00:43:48She talked about census and delimitation.

00:43:50Why are you being brought in?

00:43:51Census and delimitation exercises are constitutional requirements when we take up such a massive thing.

00:43:57One.

00:43:58And number two, as far as OBC is concerned.

00:44:00See, that Nari adhiniyam in September 23 was unanimously passed.

00:44:07Why didn't you all say all these things at that point of time?

00:44:10Now, OBC, we have all concerns about the issues of OBC.

00:44:13We are with them.

00:44:15However, at this stage, if we bring in anything new, there would be legal huddle.

00:44:20So, we don't want to get into that at this point of time.

00:44:23Now, the third question to my fellow panelists is, 60 years you were in power.

00:44:29What were you doing?

00:44:29No, ma'am.

00:44:30Why didn't you actualize the women reservation idea?

00:44:33Why didn't you do that?

00:44:35I mean, I fail to understand you were there in power for so very long and you are content with

00:44:39the 73rd and 74th Amendment.

00:44:42But why did you bring that?

00:44:43I think you make a good point, which I will...

00:44:46Did you do anything?

00:44:46You are here till 2014?

00:44:48Right.

00:44:49No, I will take that point to you, Supriya Srinayi, to conclude this debate.

00:44:52The fact is that we've been discussing women's reservation for more than 30 years.

00:44:56The fact is that every time it's been blocked in Parliament, therefore the BJP says this is a golden opportunity

00:45:02to push through women's reservation.

00:45:04You're saying the real plan is not women's reservation, but delimitation.

00:45:09Are you very clear that if 543 seats are the final number, you will accept women's reservation tomorrow morning?

00:45:17If it's dealing from delimitation, you will accept it then tomorrow morning.

00:45:21I will first come to the point that I'm trying to make here, Rajdeep.

00:45:23No.

00:45:24We don't live in a hypothetical world.

00:45:26I'm going to first tell you the point that I want to make.

00:45:28It's very rich of the BJP to come here and lecture us on women's reservation when you oppose women's reservation

00:45:33in local body elections.

00:45:34So please don't lecture me on women's reservation.

00:45:36That's point number one.

00:45:37But the important point that I want to make, Rajdeep, is this government delayed census by 5 years.

00:45:42They're now saying it's a digital census.

00:45:44Numbers will be out in 2037.

00:45:46What is the tearing hurry then to do delimitation now?

00:45:50That's a question everybody will ask.

00:45:51This is flawed delimitation.

00:45:53How will you decide which are the STC's, which are the STC's?

00:45:56How will you know whether you need to have reservations for OBC population or not?

00:46:00And I will point out, they are also trying to run away from the caste census, which they had to

00:46:05jolly well agree to last year.

00:46:07A year back, the Prime Minister was left with no option because we mounted...

00:46:11Again, shifting the goalpost.

00:46:13All these things are tumbling out of the cupboard now.

00:46:16By the way, please don't speak in between.

00:46:18No, no, no.

00:46:19Let's not be rude to each other, please.

00:46:20I did not speak in between.

00:46:21Give me the same courtesy, please.

00:46:24I did not speak in between.

00:46:25Give me the same courtesy.

00:46:26The bill does not say...

00:46:27The bill says parliament will decide, not the constitution.

00:46:31So, you are undermining and attacking the constitution also.

00:46:34And I want to tell you, Rajdeep, one last point.

00:46:36You look at how delimitation has been done in Jammu and Kashmir and in Assam.

00:46:41To suit the BJP's agenda, we have seats in Assam that have 8 lakh voters and some seats that have

00:46:4725 lakh voters.

00:46:48We have seats which have 6 assemblies, some seats that have 12 assemblies.

00:46:52You are saying everything will be left to the delimitation commission.

00:46:55I will ask you one question.

00:46:57This is a groundbreaking exercise.

00:46:59Why could there not be a consensus that the government...

00:47:02I would definitely like to come in for 30 seconds.

00:47:06Why could the government not call all states?

00:47:08Okay, I've taken your point.

00:47:09I would like to come in for 30 seconds.

00:47:10Supriya Sinead, Aparavita Sarangi, final point.

00:47:14The point which also PTR made, that the way it's being pushed through or sought to be pushed through is

00:47:18dictatorial.

00:47:19Such a major bill requires wider consultation.

00:47:22It could have easily been brought in the monsoon session.

00:47:25It's not dictatorial.

00:47:26No, you could have easily...

00:47:27What is it?

00:47:28What is the urge...

00:47:29No, no, just a minute, Supriya Sinead.

00:47:30What was the urgency?

00:47:32What is the sudden urgency?

00:47:33Heavens will not fall.

00:47:34If you waited for one month and got a consensus, you don't...

00:47:38You want to treat parliament as a notice board, ma'am.

00:47:41It can't be my way or the highway.

00:47:46See, all these people who are kind of, you know, getting all these things out, one thing after the other,

00:47:53they are shifting the goalposts because they do not want to see 273 women in the Lok Sabha

00:47:58or huge number of women in the different Vedan Sabhas.

00:48:02They have, many of these parties have more women than the BJP.

00:48:05They are the flasher.

00:48:06They are the flasher.

00:48:07They are the flasher in the different states.

00:48:09Ma'am, you could have brought so many more women.

00:48:10No, no, no, Supriya Sinead.

00:48:11They are extremely unfortunate and these people are actually opposing women reservation.

00:48:17These people are against women reservation and I told earlier...

00:48:20No, you are gerrymandering, see ma'am, ma'am, ma'am, ma'am.

00:48:23The reservation for women to be done and that's my own reservation.

00:48:26Okay, I'm going to leave it there.

00:48:27Time out.

00:48:28Better, better laid...

00:48:29No, no, no.

00:48:31Subhashya Sinead, we have to do it now.

00:48:34Okay, you have to do it now but did you have to do it while also pushing delimitation in this

00:48:39manner is the big question.

00:48:41Just a minute, Supriya Sinead and Aparajita Sarangi fade us down.

00:48:45This is supposed to be news without the noise.

00:48:47I've heard both sides.

00:48:49I've heard you all patiently and I hope the viewers have also learned them patiently.

00:48:53We'll get in more experts also in the days ahead.

00:48:56This is a major bill which will change the political map of the country.

00:49:00It deserves a wider debate, surely, is all one can say.

00:49:05Which is my continuing focus on what has happened at TCS.

00:49:10The company which finds itself in an eye of a storm over sexual harassment charges in Nashik and more.

00:49:17Forced namaz, alleged religious coercion and now shocking claims of sexual exploitation.

00:49:22A case from a BPO of TCS in Nashik keeps taking more and more grim turns.

00:49:28What began as workplace harassment allegations has now drawn in the Maharashtra anti-terrorism squad.

00:49:34Investigators claim they are probing possible wider links.

00:49:38One survivor has also now spoken out detailing a disturbing sequence of events.

00:49:44Are there other sides though to the story as well?

00:49:46Here's a report.

00:49:50The probe into shocking allegations against employees at a BPO unit of TCS in Nashik is revealing disturbing details.

00:50:00A team of the Maharashtra anti-terrorism squad has now joined the investigation.

00:50:06The lens is on Imran, reportedly based in Malaysia.

00:50:11Named by a victim, investigators are now probing a possible terror link.

00:50:17One of the alleged victims has spoken to India today, narrating the shocking ordeal she had to go through.

00:50:24The victim first met Danish Sheikh in January 2022 when he promised her a job.

00:50:30Their interactions grew frequent, with Danish often visiting her for work.

00:50:35In July 2022, she alleges Danish forcibly kissed her and pushed for a relationship,

00:50:41even speaking of marriage, when she resisted.

00:50:44Over time, she says, Danish along with Tawseev and Nida Khan grew closer, often meeting her together.

00:50:51The victim alleges that both Danish and Tawseev tried to convince her to convert,

00:50:57repeatedly claiming Islam was superior.

00:51:00She further claims Danish forced physical relations in 2024,

00:51:05while Tawseev threatened her, tried to force himself on her and touched her inappropriately inside the office.

00:51:14So far, six accused have been arrested.

00:51:18The HR manager, Nida Khan, remains on the run.

00:51:21A total of nine FIRs have been registered and the charges are chilling.

00:51:28In the first FIR, Danish Sheikh, Tawseev Attar and Nida Khan are accused of making offensive remarks on Hindu deities.

00:51:36In the second FIR, Raza Menon and Shah Rukh Qureshi are accused of inappropriate touching, remarks and harassment.

00:51:45In the third FIR, Shafi Sheikh is accused of inappropriate staring.

00:51:51In the fourth FIR, Tawseev Attar is accused of obscene gestures, intrusive questions and remarks, targeting Hindu deities.

00:52:01In the fifth FIR, multiple accused are charged with abusing Hindu deities, forcing namaz and attempting religious conversion.

00:52:10In the sixth FIR, Asif Ansari and Shafi Sheikh are accused of obscene comments and physical misconduct.

00:52:18In the seventh FIR, multiple accused are charged with stalking, molestation and offensive religious remarks.

00:52:26In the eighth FIR, Raza Menon and Shafi Sheikh are accused of repeated harassment, obscene comments and unwanted advances.

00:52:35In the ninth FIR, Raza Menon and Shah Rukh Qureshi are accused of stalking, lewd gestures and continuous harassment.

00:52:46What began as a tip-off about suspicious activity at a BPO has now turned into an alleged case of

00:52:54harassment, religious coercion and possible international links.

00:53:00Bureau Report, India Today.

00:53:05To our special coverage now on the West Asia war, let's bring you all the top developments that are taking

00:53:12place in this fast-moving attempts to achieve some kind of a negotiated settlement.

00:53:17Mixed signals coming in from the US President Donald Trump on the Iran conflict.

00:53:22He said today there was no need to extend the ceasefire, yet hinted at crucial two days ahead.

00:53:27Called the war almost over, but also said we are not finished and made it clear either there's a deal

00:53:32or the war goes on.

00:53:33Adding that Iran wants to make a deal.

00:53:36Listen in.

00:53:43US President also dropping a big hint on diplomatic opening.

00:53:47Donald Trump telling the media that talks with Iran could happen this time in Pakistan once again, possibly within the

00:53:52next two days.

00:53:53Even indicating he may travel for the talks, claiming the outreach has come from the other side.

00:53:57US media reports suggest a second round could take place in Islamabad as early as Friday.

00:54:05Donald Trump also claiming China is backing the US move to keep the Strait of Hormuz open, even saying Beijing

00:54:10has agreed not to arm Iran, while warning US is good at fighting it if it has to.

00:54:15On the ground, the US military claims to have enforced a full naval blockade on Iran, detailing that over 10

00:54:21,000 troops, multiple warships and aircraft and at least eight oil tankers have already been intercepted.

00:54:28After the US naval blockade, Tehran is threatening to shut down key global trade routes, including the Gulf, the Sea

00:54:34of Oman and even the Red Sea.

00:54:36Iran's military says it will not allow exports or imports to continue if the pressure from Washington persists, warning it

00:54:42will act decisively to defend its interests.

00:54:44A fresh flare-up on the Israel-Lebanon front.

00:54:47Hezbollah fired a barrage of 30-plus rockets into northern Israel a day after rare Israel-Lebanon talks were held

00:54:54in Washington, mediated by US Secretary of State Marco Rubio.

00:54:58Several projectiles were intercepted, but some landed and there were several injuries reported in Israel.

00:55:12Meanwhile, the news just coming in. Pakistan's Army Chief, Field Marshal Aasim Munir has arrived in Iran.

00:55:18Welcome by the Iranian Foreign Minister Abbas Araqchi.

00:55:22The Pakistan Peace Panel is in Tehran amidst talks, amidst the possibility there could be a second round of talks

00:55:28in Islamabad on Friday.

00:55:29Aasim Munir and Mohsin Nakfi are in Iran. Islamabad has stepped up its claims to be the mediator.

00:55:36The Pakistan envoys have reportedly carried a US message. The second round talks push is now fully underway.

00:55:44Reuters says Israel expects the truce to be extended with Iran.

00:55:49So, big news there coming in at the moment from what's been happening on those attempts to achieve a negotiation.

00:56:05So, amidst the fast-changing developments that are taking place in West Asia, joining me now is a very special

00:56:11guest,

00:56:11Sharon Haskell, Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs of Israel.

00:56:15Appreciate, Ms. Haskell, you joining me.

00:56:17We've just heard from Donald Trump in an interview where he has said that the war with Iran is very

00:56:25close to being over

00:56:26and a second round of talks with Tehran is likely shortly.

00:56:30Does Israel concur with the US President that the Iran war is very close to being over?

00:56:38Look, it's a real question whether the leftovers of the Iranian regime understand where they are at now.

00:56:46And it has two main perspectives and two main approaches that we're looking at.

00:56:52The one thing is the tools and the other one is the intentions.

00:56:56The intentions of destruction, the intentions of annihilation, the intentions of the massacre and the destruction.

00:57:04And then the tools, the nuclear program and the materials, the Iranian materials that they have.

00:57:11The tools of the factories, most of them were destroyed by the ballistic missile program and its continuation as well.

00:57:20And both of these things will dictate whether in the long terms, Iran will be a threat on humanity or

00:57:28not.

00:57:29Look, Iran has put armies, terrorist armies all around the world.

00:57:34Whether it is Hezbollah, whether it is in Africa or Latin America, North America, Asia, this is a serious threat

00:57:41for humanity.

00:57:42And therefore, look, you know, we've destroyed most of their capabilities and most of their tools.

00:57:49But this is a question whether they'll be able to rebuild in the next decade.

00:57:53And that's why we have to come into the consideration of the intentions as well.

00:58:02So, I repeat my question.

00:58:04Do you believe, therefore, that the war is far from over, given the fact that Iran has been unwilling to

00:58:12concede particularly on the nuclear question?

00:58:14At best, according to sources, they're ready for a five-year pause on their nuclear enrichment program.

00:58:20They haven't disowned groups like Hezbollah, Hamas and the Houthis.

00:58:24Do you believe that Donald Trump is the one looking for a negotiated settlement?

00:58:28Is Israel committed now to an urgent, early negotiated settlement?

00:58:34Look, what I can tell you is the last time when, you know, the vice president, J.D. Vance, left

00:58:42the last talks and in the airplane,

00:58:45he had a conversation with Prime Minister Netanyahu.

00:58:48And, you know, they were furious and they were furious because the gaps between the two were so far.

00:58:56And those leftovers of the Iranian regime still did not put their feet on the ground and face the reality.

00:59:04And I said back then, if they don't understand with what happened, they understand with more force.

00:59:08And when President Trump imposed a blockade, a siege blockade, I think that's when maybe the foot went to the

00:59:16ground,

00:59:16that this would mean, you know, a collapse for the regime and that the collapse of the regime is only

00:59:23a matter of time

00:59:24because of the economical aspect of that as well.

00:59:27The Iranian regime has a huge, you know, oiled engine of terrorism, of, you know, of destruction.

00:59:37There's armies around the world and there's a lot of people who are benefiting from that,

00:59:43from the corruption and their place and their respect in society.

00:59:48And with economical constraints, that means a matter of collapse, economical collapse is only a matter of time.

00:59:57And I hope that they truly understand that.

01:00:03But, but Ms. Haskell, you know, you're saying it's only a matter of time before Iran economically collapses.

01:00:09And amidst all that, we've also heard Vice President Vance saying Iran could do a grand bargain,

01:00:16almost suggesting as if if Iran agrees to a negotiated settlement, the world will come to Iran,

01:00:22will help in the economic prosperity of Iran.

01:00:25So we're getting mixed signals.

01:00:27I think you're talking about the Iranian export of terror, its nuclear arsenal,

01:00:33and we've got the Vice President talking of a grand bargain.

01:00:36What is this grand bargain then?

01:00:38I think there is none of mixed messages.

01:00:42If Iran truly eliminated its nuclear program, understanding there's zero enrichments in their country,

01:00:50pulling out the material they have, destroying, you know, the ballistic missile program,

01:00:56all of these things, okay, and intentions will create not just a changed Iran and a different Iran, okay,

01:01:05but this will create stability in our region, you know, an aggressive and violent force that will be constructed and

01:01:14restricted.

01:01:16Are they there?

01:01:17I don't know yet.

01:01:18We'll have to hear after the next round of negotiation, but I'm not sure they're there yet.

01:01:22We'll have to see.

01:01:23If they are, is it better for humanity?

01:01:26Of course it is.

01:01:31No, but it's very interesting that we have the possibility of a second round of negotiations,

01:01:36Ms. Haskell, likely to take place between the Americans and the Iranians, possibly in the next few days.

01:01:42And you've got the Israelis negotiating with the Lebanese government in the United States,

01:01:46even as bombing continues in Lebanon, bombing also reportedly in Gaza.

01:01:51So Israel is still being seen by some as the aggressor, that you started this war,

01:01:57and now you want to finish it on your terms, even while you continue bombing in Lebanon,

01:02:03in which 3,000 civilians have died.

01:02:06How do you expect the Iranians or indeed anyone else then to trust, or even Lebanon to trust Israel,

01:02:13or that Israel is acting in good faith?

01:02:15It is very simple, and I think that most, you know, average, you know, sensible Indian citizen will truly understand

01:02:25that.

01:02:26In many cases, India looked as if it is the aggressor in the war with Pakistan.

01:02:32But was it?

01:02:33Was India attacked?

01:02:35Where innocent civilians were butchered and murdered,

01:02:38and the government had to step up in order to defend them and secure them to make sure that they

01:02:43are protected?

01:02:44Is that so?

01:02:46And this is the exact same case.

01:02:48You know, the Lebanese government told Hezbollah not to attack Israel.

01:02:55Yet they didn't listen to the government of Lebanon.

01:02:58They listened to the puppet master in Tehran and bombarded and attacked Israel while we had a ceasefire.

01:03:07They have bombarded us every day, every week, destroying our cities, killing our people.

01:03:15What would your prime minister do if you would be bombarded across the border almost every single day?

01:03:24Would you just let them do that?

01:03:26That's not even the government.

01:03:28The government told them to stop.

01:03:30The government told them not to do that.

01:03:31And that's why you need to understand the in-depth difficulty that we have.

01:03:36Because this army is not a Lebanese army.

01:03:39This is an Iranian army that have been looking for the destruction of Israel

01:03:45and have been destroying and occupying Lebanon for so many decades now,

01:03:52destroying its economy and fabric and the corruption.

01:03:55And the Lebanese want them out.

01:03:57And so, you know, when the Lebanese president put on uniform and say they are at war with Hezbollah,

01:04:05is this just Israel's fight?

01:04:07No.

01:04:08This is the fight against the Iranian army, Hezbollah, in Lebanon.

01:04:13So you're coming and saying, oh, you're bombarding and you're the aggressor.

01:04:16Well, I think that the average Indian truly understand how things can be really twisted

01:04:23and manipulated by the media.

01:04:25But that's not the reality.

01:04:31Well, it's not just the media twisting it.

01:04:34You know that even the Indian government has come out strongly and condemned the bombing of civilians.

01:04:40No, no, there's a difference between targeting Hezbollah, which you believe is at war and is a combatant.

01:04:45But what about the civilians who've died?

01:04:47The question, therefore, arises, ma'am, do you believe that the hostilities in Lebanon also have to cease?

01:04:54Just as you say that Iran has to give clear guarantees on its nuclear program ending,

01:05:00is Israel willing to give any guarantees on ending the hostilities in Lebanon?

01:05:04Or do you want to take over southern Lebanon in particular?

01:05:07Well, the first thing, what you're saying is absolutely not true.

01:05:12Israel doesn't target civilians.

01:05:15On the contrary, Israel has been warning civilians.

01:05:20If you go right now to the Arabic spokesperson Twitter, okay,

01:05:26you'll see every single day him warning the exact locations, the exact time,

01:05:32as a message for civilians to evacuate, warning them that we are targeting Hezbollah militant in those areas.

01:05:41And most civilians will evacuate.

01:05:44And that's how life are being saved.

01:05:46We call them.

01:05:47We spread niflets.

01:05:48And so Israel is doing more than any other country, more than any other army to try and avoid civilian

01:05:55casualty.

01:05:56That's a fact.

01:05:58And you can fact check it on Twitter right now.

01:06:02Now, the second thing, okay, you're talking about the, you know, what's happening between Lebanon.

01:06:07No, I'm not fact checking it from Twitter, ma'am.

01:06:07We've seen, we've seen.

01:06:09If you can see it, the Lebanese civilians can see it.

01:06:12But what about the killings that have taken place in Gaza and Lebanon, ma'am?

01:06:16You're, you know, how can I fact check on Twitter, ma'am?

01:06:19What about the killings that have taken place in Gaza and now in Lebanon?

01:06:25Does Israel come into this with clean hands?

01:06:28You, you listen to me now.

01:06:31The media can fact check everything.

01:06:33It can call on and check exactly what happened.

01:06:37They choose to disregard it.

01:06:40They choose to ignore it.

01:06:42And they choose the position of terrorist organization with information from Hamas, a terrorist organization that butchered and raped and

01:06:52massacred over real fact and real data that we've been providing you.

01:06:57So let's put that on the table.

01:07:00And you want to talk to me about Gaza?

01:07:02Who started that?

01:07:04With the worst massacre of Jews since the Holocaust.

01:07:07Our children were butchered and burned, entire families.

01:07:12250 people were taken hostage.

01:07:15This equates in regards, in regards, who's the responsible for that?

01:07:22The Palestinians have also been pushed to the wall.

01:07:23It is Hamas.

01:07:23Hamas, on the 6th of October, there were two separate entities.

01:07:27They had a good life.

01:07:29Who chose that?

01:07:30Hamas chose it.

01:07:32Hamas opened fire with the worst massacre they could possibly do.

01:07:36With such a small population in Israel, that would equate to tens of thousands of Indians being butchered and being

01:07:46taken hostages by your enemy.

01:07:48What would you do, if not destroy the capability of this terrorist organization of committing this attempt of genocide again?

01:07:57What would you do as a father to a daughter that is raped every single day as a hostage in

01:08:04the dungeons of torture of Hamas?

01:08:06What would you do as a father?

01:08:12I empathize and I would also empathize with Palestinians who also claim similar stories of torture and illegal punishment.

01:08:19But I ask you this.

01:08:21Absolutely not.

01:08:21Where do we then go from here?

01:08:23Given, as you said, the level of mistrust, the level of mistrust, the level of hostility, ma'am, where do

01:08:30we go from here?

01:08:30You, you know, the first thing is you cannot spread the lies and propaganda.

01:08:34Okay, you're calling it propaganda and lies, so tell me.

01:08:36And I will tell you this.

01:08:37Ma'am, give me.

01:08:38I feel sorry for the Palestinians.

01:08:41Every life lost is a tragedy.

01:08:44But the responsible for that tragedy is Hamas.

01:08:47Look on how they're butchering them right now in the streets.

01:08:50Those poor Palestinians that are under Hamas are also being executed and tortured.

01:08:57Okay?

01:08:57Do you stand for them against Hamas?

01:09:00Have you spoken about their story?

01:09:02Or do you report it only when it comes to the Jews?

01:09:05That means there is more hatred, okay, than actual love and care for the Palestinians.

01:09:12There's more hatred towards Israel.

01:09:13Ma'am, the politics of shame and victimhood here.

01:09:17You know, therefore I ask you, ma'am, tell me in conclusion, what's the road ahead?

01:09:22Do you see an end to this conflict?

01:09:26Well, look on the incredible achievement.

01:09:28Do you see an end to it?

01:09:29Or do you see the hostilities resume?

01:09:32You're talking to me, what's been happening in Lebanon.

01:09:36Look on what an incredible outcome came out of it.

01:09:39Yesterday, the Lebanese ambassador and the Israeli ambassador have said for decades it wasn't direct negotiation or direct talks.

01:09:47And for the first time, they sat together and discussed maybe a long-term solution.

01:09:54Finally, maybe peace is actually possible.

01:09:57Okay?

01:09:57That is an incredible outcome for Israel and Lebanon.

01:10:00But that can only happen if the Iranian army of Iran is dismantled.

01:10:05And this is our aspiration.

01:10:06This is what we hope for.

01:10:08And this is what the Lebanese people hope for as well.

01:10:12Not the Iranian army that is there that is trying to be, that is a warmonger that looks for destruction

01:10:19and death and uses the Lebanese resources for its own agenda, its own destructive political agenda and religious agenda.

01:10:27Okay?

01:10:28So, this is a really positive outcome.

01:10:30And we really hope for peace and coexistence with the Lebanese people.

01:10:35And today, it actually looks like it's actually possible.

01:10:39Can I push you one last time?

01:10:44If the U.S. and the Iranians come to some kind of an agreement, will Israel follow U.S.'s lead?

01:10:51Or will Israel make its choices based, irrespective of what America decides to do with Tehran?

01:10:58I'll tell you two things about it.

01:11:00The first thing is that, you know, the interests, not just of America and Israel, the interests of humanity, is

01:11:08that this regime is absolutely dismantled.

01:11:11This is a fanatical terrorist regime that abused, tortured, and butchered its own people.

01:11:17Okay?

01:11:17Not even to start talking about its neighboring country and Israel and America, hundreds of American soldiers that they've killed

01:11:24and civilians and abducted.

01:11:27Okay?

01:11:27So, this is, you know, a mutual interest of Israel, of America, and of the rest of the world.

01:11:33And while we discuss with our American partners in Israel as a very capable partner who's proven its capability and

01:11:40its military capability as well,

01:11:43the friendship and the discussions between our close, okay?

01:11:48President Trump and Prime Minister Netanyahu are talking constantly and, you know, they're pretty much on the same page.

01:11:54And if we do have any reserves or any concern, this is being done in a closed room and not

01:12:02through the media.

01:12:06Okay.

01:12:07Can I just also push you one last time?

01:12:10What will you tell critics of Benjamin Netanyahu who say he is the original warmonger at the moment in West

01:12:16Asia?

01:12:17He's determined to use this moment to try and decapitate and finish the regime in Iran and have a regime

01:12:24sympathetic to Israel.

01:12:25Look, the regime in Iran is one of the most fanatical, terroristic, murderous regime there is in the world.

01:12:35Okay?

01:12:36And then you call a leader that was elected democratically of the only Jewish state, a warmonger?

01:12:42Seriously?

01:12:43The prime minister who signed, you know, a first, you know, Abraham Accord peace agreements with Arab countries

01:12:53who preserved some of the peace between Jordan and Egypt and Israel, this is what you call,

01:13:00I think you have your entire moral compass completely twisted and turned.

01:13:05And I understand a lot of the propaganda and the lies that are being spread, especially through the media,

01:13:09but it couldn't be more opposite than that.

01:13:15Okay.

01:13:16Very strong words there, Ms. Haskell.

01:13:19You've replied very strongly to all the charges that have been made.

01:13:22And you've also offered a glimmer of hope, perhaps, that at least with Lebanon,

01:13:27we've got the two sides now talking to each other.

01:13:30And hopefully we will see some element of peace and, dare I say, sanity return to the region.

01:13:36I thank you very much for taking the time off and joining us here on India Today.

01:13:41Thank you so much.

01:13:42Thank you very much.

01:13:42Thanks a lot.

01:13:43Thank you so much.

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