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Cynthia Frelund joins the show to discuss the latest headlines around the NFL.
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00:00okay let's talk draft again cynthia freeland joins us now nfl network analytics expert good
00:06morning cynthia thank you for the time today how are you i'm doing well thank you great to hear
00:11from you guys i hope everything's good what's the weather like it's much better today 72 and sunny
00:19i mean i love i will say i mean i live in california now but i miss spring so much
00:25on
00:26like i'm from michigan i lived in you know boston new york all those places and i i do miss
00:31like
00:31those first signs of spring it's incredible i i'm jealous yeah i hear that the 80s and 90s are
00:36coming next week yeah it's gonna be hot i can't wait for that people gonna come i mean i love
00:41it
00:41it's been too damn cold too damn cold winter's too damn long all right uh cynthia i'm gonna start with
00:47a sort of a 30 000 foot question here uh how many teams in the nfl have analytics departments i'm
00:53assuming 32 of those of those who are considered the best like who are two or three teams that
01:00you who are in the analytics business consider these guys these guys and these guys are ahead
01:06of everyone else so i will say we're going to put an asterisk here because certain ones are good and
01:12like the best in certain departments for example like the ravens they have soup to nuts probably
01:18the best one perhaps um i would say like from you know draft to how they handle free agency to
01:26how
01:26they handle you know health and safety i will say i love what the cowboys do for load management so
01:33the amount of tracking they do for practice and how they treat their players health wise i think that
01:39one's like the gold standard in the analytics around like stuff you and i are have like wearables you
01:44know when i go for my five five minute run not for you know hitting 300 pound men same thing
01:51um and
01:52then actually it's been interesting the chiefs when it comes to building out how they structure um their
01:58moves in free agency which they've had to do uh they're they're very good at that as well so i
02:03would
02:03say those are the ones that come to mind but the there's other teams that are really trying with like
02:08technology first so the lions have like a very technology first approach i know the commanders are
02:14looking at some of the same stuff as well um but those are those people who popped to mind first
02:20but like uh new england they i know when they were doing all the analytic stuff and the based off
02:26the
02:26plays not necessarily the the stuff the science with the the body and all that they were ahead of
02:32the game at one point are they still up like that you know i would say no um i'm not
02:40i'm not privy to
02:41everything that goes on in their building some of the a lot of the other teams you know i will
02:46say
02:46every team has like you know the analytics people tend to be pretty collegial because
02:50we have access to the same data the next gen stats are distributed in the same way with the same
02:55kind of format for everyone those are paid for by the league distributed by the league they're part
03:00of the competition committee in terms of fairness so everyone does that stuff now the stuff where you
03:05have to pay for your exclusive you know use of how you're using practice data etc that's where
03:12different teams spend different money to figure out what matters to them how many people they employ
03:18to do it etc like i know the jets are really building things out i haven't heard that from the
03:24patriots i it doesn't mean it's not happening but we're pretty we're pretty we work together in this
03:29industry because the data is all the same so it's it's and there's like not a ton of people that
03:33do it
03:34so but then there's people who believe in the patriots are very much not secretive but they you
03:39know they they believe their edge lies and not telling anyone anything yeah so like the question
03:44i asked like i know analytics is uh very very prevalent and it's coming i mean people get more
03:48and more involved with it how many how is it like around the league where some people may go
03:55damn near 100 percent analytics some people go analytics and my site and my experience some people go
04:01more experienced than analytics how is that uh kind of i guess fluctuated around the league
04:07the teams that do the best are the ones who recognize that it's a tool in their tool belt and
04:13it's
04:13only as good as garbage data in garbage data out so if your intention is to try to let's let's
04:19talk
04:20about the draft for example just because it's so top of mind if your intention is to say okay in
04:24this draft um you know i'm picking in the let's let's just say you know slightly after 10 right
04:30the the teens am i going to what where's my what's the best uh fit for me for let's say
04:37i'm looking for
04:37a corner i don't know making some things up but like you know how can you how can you figure
04:41out the
04:41best fit and your your intention is to find someone who in your system is the best fit for what
04:47you're
04:48trying to do the analytics can help narrow down your focus and then a human makes a decision so it's
04:53really using the technologies and the opportunities to take the data to make your human effort more
04:59streamlined more efficient more effective it's not to replace it it's to be smart about how it
05:06augments and helps you do your job faster all right sitting at number seven cynthia the commanders
05:11i think you're going to have a choice between some pretty juicy metric athletes to choose from
05:19who are some of the players that have popped out to you that could be there at seven
05:24i think mansoor delane is the one who um really to me he's what he's probably i hate when people
05:31say
05:31he's the safest corner in the draft because that doesn't sound like exciting or sexy but he's
05:36you know like rounded out right like defense got a lot of attention and free agency
05:40mansoor delane's skill set really is a nice fit for everything dan quinn wants to do is based on his
05:47history i feel like that could be a really nice way to really compete especially in the nfc east like
05:54get your defense just really really solid and a little younger at one of those five key positions
05:59that are the most expensive right i understand that the jeremiah love if he's there is a very sexy
06:05opportunity but i always want to think like okay o-line and corner like oh those would be
06:11probably areas to really build out because as much as it's as much as it's fun to have that
06:17chess piece with the running back it's very very hard to build from the trenches and corner i i believe
06:23in this draft getting the corner right is probably the the most interesting piece because of the way
06:29wide receivers have evolved in this league so you need the corner position to be right last time we
06:35talked with you uh you thought like i did where it come when it comes down to uh reuben bain
06:40like you
06:41know that one eighth of an inch means nothing to me uh the guy the guy is a maniac on
06:46the field
06:46he plays aggressive and and just violent like i love to see it are those rumors and then
06:53talks of him going away some with that short arm thing
07:00i i mean i don't i haven't heard anyone who i i mean look it's i think people like always
07:06flag it
07:07to be like okay did we in our assessment of drafting someone as high as reuben bain's projected to go
07:12is is the short arm something we saw on film nope okay check the box just to double check your
07:18work
07:18right because you're spending all this draft equity drafting someone so high so i i'm looking at it and
07:23i'm like i don't think it will that doesn't he had the most pressures in fbs last season like
07:28you don't get that little tyrannosaurus rex arms doesn't get you the most pressures in fbs like
07:32it just doesn't it doesn't work like that you know it i if it were like we talked before if
07:37it
07:37were a foot out of range then it wouldn't have been able to earn those pressures right but one
07:42eighth of an inch we were i was cold in indianapolis i don't know about you but i was cold
07:46and i didn't
07:48bench press the day before or you know i none of that stuff like you know i i don't care
07:53about his
07:53arms at all yeah so who decides what's a good arm length versus what is a oh boy i wouldn't
08:00take
08:01this guy length like that fascinates me god no i'm just kidding um i i think like people people
08:08always say that it's like bill parcells who came up with i i don't know why i mean i just
08:13track
08:13the bill parcells everything comes back to bill parcells the trade value chart parcells
08:20yep arm length metrics parcells yeah sean payton parcells yeah you know i mean i i don't know
08:30i'm going to be honest uh i feel like it's like a um i feel like it's a good uh
08:36a good like the the
08:39thing that's also messed up about it is you don't see it very much being adjusted for height because
08:45realistically if you know a guy who's 6'6 versus 6'3 your arms are going to be three inches
08:50different
08:50so when they say certain things you know because your your wingspan you know should be about your
08:57height right like that's the i don't see them adjusted enough for for what your actual um what
09:04your actual size is by the way there's be mentioned there is one category where those that arm length
09:09is crucial don't dismiss it entirely you ever lost an air pod under the car seat you need every quarter
09:17inch oh you need to get a hand here's the problem with that if you've got a really long arm
09:21does your
09:22is your muscle bigger because i have a short arm well i'm not i mean short compared to that but
09:27i
09:27don't have as much muscle so i can put my hand down further you know like there's a trade-off
09:31that is
09:32true that is true the worst is like finding out your seat doesn't slide far forward enough
09:37or far back enough to actually get what you're looking for exactly yeah that's the worst exactly
09:44i mean you know what it's i'm with you yeah all right what is the uh what is the accepted
09:49pecking
09:50order cynthia of the highest leverage positions in the nfl i'm going to take a guess here and you tell
09:56me if i've got some of them out of order quarterback left tackle corner edge d tackle offensive guard
10:07tight end running back wide receiver safety most people would say most team builders would say
10:14quarterback left tackle edge rusher and then wide receiver corner kind of okay so edge move edge up
10:22one and move wide receiver way further up in today's passing game okay what's what's considered
10:28the the least valuable uh positions running back safety running back being fungible in today's nfl short
10:36lifespan high injury rate safety being just kind of a position unless you got a troy palomalo or
10:43someone who's exceptional yeah see like if you're a safety you want to be paid like a corner right so
10:49um i would say a linebacker is a not an edge rushing like the the off-ball linebacker doesn't get
10:57enough
10:58value either so it's hard because safety linebacker all these people don't play like base defense
11:04anymore so now you're playing with like you're telling me nick even worry the same type of safety
11:09as like you know a lot of other guys like the answer is no kyle hamilton got paid in a
11:14way that
11:14shows us that that's also not the case so there are exceptions but you know the running backs i mean
11:19the fullbacks like things like that like these older antiquated positions they have a lot of range
11:24safety's got range linebackers got range you know off-ball linebacker that's the question around
11:29sunny styles right sunny styles draft position they're like well are we what do we consider him
11:33is he just an off-ball linebacker like because fred warner gets paid a lot but like does every team
11:39pay an off-ball linebacker very much the answer is no so it's interesting it's it's that those are
11:44more rangy positions but like your third wide receiver gets paid more than your second corner which
11:50makes no sense to me right yeah your third wide receiver gets paid more than a running than like
11:55most running backs and that's that's just where we've evolved to be like this running back thing
12:01it kind of baffles me a little bit where back in the day running backs carried the ball 25 30
12:06times
12:07they did they play but i have friends of mine who played in the league and they all played 12
12:12to 16 years
12:13when they were getting hit consistently who'd you play with that played 12 to 16 ernest beiner
12:20okay that's one thing marcus allen that's another one okay jerome bettis okay you know i start naming
12:28them up for you emma smith okay barry played 10 but you start naming them barry didn't quite make
12:34that whatever yeah barry we still have 15 000 yards rushing i mean yeah today everyone say the
12:41lifespan of the running back and and they don't carry the ball like they used to so why then don't
12:47we have the durable washing machines at running back that we once had we don't right we don't run
12:52them like that we throw the ball to them but still they last longer frank gore was the last guy
12:57that
12:58really outlived how long did frank play forever too so my question is what really happened did they
13:06just assume one day in uh in a on a in a boardroom that we're not going to play the
13:11running back in
13:11i think they break more my theory cynthia is they break they don't break no more no more than any
13:16other position okay cynthia joe burr get hurt every year but they still wait for him to come back
13:22well i think part of it is you got to go back a little bit further to like what happens
13:26in um like
13:28youth football and then you know when go back you know college youth all those things and because
13:34there was this perception that running backs had less and less value they were throwing the ball
13:38more etc then they switched like a good running back to i don't know maybe a different position
13:44and maybe they weren't training them like i think a lot of it's like a little bit of for a
13:48while we
13:49remember until last year the year before like teams were only running outside zone like no one was
13:54running duo you know and and it just wasn't happening so now you have it coming back because now the
14:00way
14:00the defensive fronts have changed then the running back has more value plus you have to look at what's
14:04available like people keep asking me why on earth would anyone draft jeremiah love so high i'm like
14:10you can't uh manufacture a perfect quarterback in this draft supply and demand the the draft class is
14:16what it is jeremiah love benefits because of scarcity at all of the positions this isn't very regarded as
14:23the strongest draft class it's not regarded as the strongest quarterback draft class by any stretch of
14:29imagination so some of it's a little bit of supply and demand right so now you have quarterbacks who
14:34are more mobile you're you're taking away carries from a quarter from a running back right like jayden
14:39daniels runs the ball you don't necessarily need saquon barkley there i mean it helps it's never a bad
14:45thing but like if you don't if you if you have to sacrifice that or find a better wide receiver
14:50you have
14:50to make those trade-offs but again in this draft you can't you can't you know manufacture things that
14:56aren't there
14:56you
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