- 7 weeks ago
Will six trans men agree with each other about love, identity and societal conformities? Find out as they discuss hot takes admitted by one another.
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00:00I'm starting to feel like I'm a lot more open to being fetishized.
00:02Don't cut this so it sounds like I'm saying something crazy.
00:09Today you'll be hearing a series of hot takes submitted by all of you
00:13and you will have to decide whether you agree or disagree.
00:19I hate to be the first trans guy that someone has dated.
00:24Define date.
00:28I'm pretty set here.
00:30Yeah.
00:30I don't like explaining myself very much.
00:33I would prefer just to date somebody with experience dating trans guys.
00:38I also don't like to feel like an experiment.
00:41Like a little romp to trans town and then I go back and do whatever I'm doing.
00:46Hannah always was the type of person to like to be a person's first experience.
00:51I get what you're saying when they go back, you know what I mean?
00:54But I rather them go back than they go to a trans man.
00:57It's weird with me.
00:58I don't know.
00:59Hot take.
00:59I'm a little bit in the middle.
01:01I think it really depends on the person specifically.
01:04When it comes to cisgender people, I'm less inclined to be like their first transgender experience.
01:11It feels like a lot of fetishization a lot of the time.
01:15I like to be in T4T relationships.
01:17I date other trans people and that feels good for me.
01:19And I feel much more comfortable if I happen to be the first trans person that another trans person has
01:26dated.
01:26Because there's still a level of understanding and curiosity.
01:31I kind of feel like I'm in the middle.
01:33I'm in the middle.
01:35Yeah, come on in, bring it on in.
01:38We're a little more in the middle.
01:39Especially like when you said like the part, because I date trans women too.
01:43I have a daughter about trans women.
01:44So I get what you're saying when you went there.
01:47We're both transitioning.
01:48We're both, you know, learning this, doing this thing together.
01:50You know what I'm saying?
01:51And it's more comfortable sometimes than with a cisgender person.
01:54Because it's like you were saying, you just want to get in a relationship.
01:58And you know, you click and you already know what it's doing.
02:00So I get it.
02:01I have dated somebody who was early in their transition.
02:04I don't always appreciate being a teacher in those scenarios.
02:08I have felt used for like an experiment in those scenarios before.
02:11But I have had instances where like it's been really nice helping somebody come into their self.
02:18I've also experienced, well, you know, I'm a lesbian.
02:23But like, you know, let's give it a little try.
02:26Not my thing.
02:27I've done too much.
02:28I'm not a teacher.
02:29I feel like in my history, I used to break in a lot of straight women.
02:35Now I break in a lot of gay guys.
02:37Eventually, when I was dating women, I got tired of that.
02:40Perhaps at some point, I will grow tired of this as well.
02:43However, I'm not at that point yet.
02:44So if anybody feels a little curious, you know where to find me.
02:47I'm going to need like a written letter of recommendation from a trans guy
02:51before you're able to date me.
02:53That way I know you're going to treat me right.
02:54My hot take is many people pursue trans men for sex instead of partnership.
03:01What kind of people are we talking about here?
03:04You know, I don't know.
03:06I'm going to, I'll dip into the red on this one a little bit.
03:09I think a lot of people really fetishize trans masculine people, trans people in general.
03:16We are the most heavily searched person on different porn sites.
03:20People are constantly, you know, trying to entertain us.
03:24I have been transitioning for like over 15 years.
03:28You know, I've looked kind of young, but I'm old in trans years.
03:30I've just had a lot of experiences with so many, especially men because I'm a,
03:35I'm a queer trans man as well.
03:37And so I've just had a lot of experience with queer men pursuing me for sexual advances,
03:42but there's no follow through in terms of actually trying to plan out dates,
03:46trying to take someone seriously.
03:48I got a lot of sad men knocking at my door.
03:53As somebody who sleeps with a lot of other people's husbands,
03:57sometimes I think those husbands like me a little too much.
04:02And I'm like, does your man know that you're saying this to me?
04:05You kiss your man with that mouth.
04:07For me, that just comes off as obsession.
04:09I feel like it leans into that fetishization sometimes.
04:13I've got a lot of men that have expressed like they love and adore me,
04:17but I don't really feel like genuine partnership happening.
04:20Like you said, those are people's husbands.
04:22I also date men.
04:24And I'm just like, I don't know if the lack of commitment has to do with me being trans as
04:28much
04:28as it does kind of just the way queer men date, you know, which is on the apps and onto
04:36the next.
04:36What's the biggest threat you lack?
04:38For me, hyper-masculinizing me is I feel like I kind of talk a little feminine.
04:44I wear makeup.
04:45I remember being on a date with this girl and she kept going,
04:49oh, you're so masculine with your big muscles.
04:54And I was like, no, I don't like you actually.
04:56And I have like some stuff.
04:58I was just like, I love your beard.
05:00No, no, you don't.
05:01Yeah.
05:02That will definitely tip me off as someone specifically is like, I love your beard.
05:06You have an amazing beard.
05:07I love your top surgery scars.
05:09They're amazing.
05:10I'm like, are they?
05:11I mean, they look good, but I'm just like, why do you love my top surgery scars?
05:16Some people here have amazing beards.
05:19Or like the phrase like, oh, you're the best of both worlds.
05:23That's an immediate no for me.
05:24When people are like, oh, your dick is so big.
05:26Your dick is so big.
05:26I mean, three inches is big in my community.
05:29What did I say?
05:30I mean, it's just three inches at her wife.
05:33It's the emphasis on the sides.
05:36I'm starting to feel like I'm a lot more open to being fetishized.
05:40My red flag is if they have exes or other partners who look just like me.
05:46Like an Asian?
05:47Yeah, Asian.
05:47If he has an Asian twink husband, I'm like, okay, I see what's happening.
05:51It's less about the transness and a lot more about Asian fetish.
05:57It is already a thing.
05:59So if someone comes around the two of us, then I'm going to be like, no.
06:03I feel this is not going to come out right.
06:07Don't cut this.
06:08So it sounds like I'm saying something crazy.
06:10I feel a lot of agency in fetishizing other people, not like in a messed up way.
06:19If I'm hooking up with a gay guy, I'm like, okay, you're objectifying me.
06:22I'm objectifying you.
06:23To me, it's just an equal part of the transaction.
06:26And like, I understand that's not how power structures work in this world.
06:30But as far as I'm concerned in my room for about an hour and a half and the hours between
06:35midnight and
06:35three AM, that's not the real world.
06:38And to me, it does equal.
06:40My take.
06:41A good relationship is better when you live separately.
06:46There we go.
06:59It's the Whoopi Goldberg saying, I don't want a man in my house.
07:03I was in a long distance relationship with someone for two and a half years.
07:07And then they were moving to the same city I lived in.
07:09And they initially were like, oh, so I'll move in with you.
07:12And I'm like, we've never lived in the same city.
07:15Like we got to start, like you have to have your own like people and interests and hobbies.
07:19I think it could work living together if you've been together for a bit,
07:22but I don't think you should be in a rush despite, you know, the price of rent in New York
07:26City.
07:27It's a space thing.
07:28And I don't like people all on top of me all the time.
07:31And I want to get to miss you.
07:32I think that's a better way of learning each other, maybe further down the line.
07:36Like if it really gets serious like that, we just need to take our time.
07:40Maybe we'll have some better lasting relationships.
07:42I think T for T dating is not inherently better than T for C.
07:49I agree. Technically, we want to be technical.
07:54You said inherently.
07:55Inherently.
07:56That was the key word.
07:57I don't think that, you know, people are inherently anything based on their gender alone,
08:04whether that be cisgender or transgender.
08:06I personally have a preference for T for T relationships.
08:10I've had like much better experiences in those situations than not.
08:15I also recognize that there are some, you know, wonderful cisgender people in relationships
08:20with trans people who love them.
08:22This is so diplomatic.
08:23It is.
08:24If you ask me, I'm like, this is why.
08:26But like, if you say, if you, if the question was my preference, then I'd be way over there.
08:31There are so many different identities that people can hold.
08:35So many different levels that people can connect with each other on.
08:39For me, having a shared gender identity doesn't necessarily mean I'm going to have a whole lot
08:45in common with somebody.
08:47I just think it's more complicated than that.
08:49It's the inherently that's getting me.
08:51Like T for T is a preference, but I've also had like good relationships with non-trans people.
08:56That isn't the problem.
08:58And also there are a bunch of trans people who suck, because many people suck.
09:04So we can't just go by whether they're trans or not.
09:07And that's a quality.
09:08Yeah.
09:08We can also be bad.
09:09It's just like one line of identity.
09:12Right.
09:12Like it's the same to me as saying like middle class for middle class or like white for white.
09:17There's all kinds of reasons why a relationship could work or not work.
09:21Not always and not here necessarily, but sometimes when people go really hard on T for T,
09:27it's because that's their like main marginalized identity.
09:32And I'm sort of like, yeah, I can see how that feels safer for you.
09:36That's real.
09:37That's so real.
09:38But I don't really see what like me and like a white trans person necessarily
09:42have so much more in common.
09:44In common.
09:45Yeah.
09:45That's so real.
09:46That's so true.
09:47That's actually, that's so real.
09:48I'm in my trans puberty, so to speak.
09:50So I feel like I'm 16, to be exact, 16 year old boy.
09:56So I feel like I've just started having T for T experiences.
09:59So for me, my sample for cis people are way bigger.
10:04But from the T for T experience I've had, one thing that I really appreciate about those
10:09experiences is that it teaches a lot about myself.
10:12As I'm coming into my own gender identity, my own masculinity,
10:17exploring what it means to be trans mask for me.
10:21I become more comfortable with the dating outside of just women.
10:27This is also another thing that's great about dating in New York is that you just have beautiful
10:32people of every genre and it makes exploring and discovering yourself easy.
10:39I also think that our group really represented a lot of different dating styles from like monogamy
10:45to non-monogamy to like dating men, women, non-binary people, trans people and cis people.
10:51So it makes sense to me that it was split.
10:52My hot take is that I prefer meeting people on dating apps.
10:56That's crazy.
11:01Don't get me wrong, I love a meet cute.
11:03Like I love meeting someone out in the wild and you just kind of click like a body hack or
11:07doll invasion.
11:09I think people rag on dating apps a lot and I do appreciate them as a trans person for one
11:15because
11:16they save me having to have an uncomfortable conversation.
11:19And two, just like on the basis of hookup, like you can get a lot out of the way of
11:23like,
11:23this is what I'm into, this is what I'm looking for.
11:26Saves you time.
11:27They save me having to have a conversation that can be difficult in person,
11:31that I don't know how someone's going to respond to, how it could affect my safety.
11:35Also one that sometimes I forget to have, which can lead to some complicated scenarios later.
11:41I had an interesting experience recently of going to a gay sex party for the first time.
11:47And this thing kept happening where guys were interested in me because they couldn't tell
11:53I was trans and then they figured it out and then they were not interested anymore.
11:58That's cruising.
11:59So like, that's fine.
12:00It happens.
12:00But I was like, this doesn't happen online.
12:03And like, I specifically have been staying online this whole time,
12:06kind of to avoid this situation because I don't want to surprise anybody.
12:10No shade, the internet is very curated.
12:14Apps are very curated.
12:16Someone can be, look like a total catch online and then you meet them in person
12:19and the vibe is just not there.
12:21Sometimes they look better in real life.
12:22You know, it's just like, there's something really special about like,
12:25seeing someone in person for the first time and being like,
12:28actually, no, now I got to get your socials because now I got to like, get into you more.
12:33To be clear, I'm not saying I have a passion for filling out hinge props, but that's not.
12:37I've had great dating app experiences.
12:39I've met friends.
12:40I've met foes.
12:41I've met lovers.
12:42Great.
12:42But there's something about like meeting somebody in person.
12:46Y'all be spitting game.
12:48You know what I mean?
12:48And you can catch a vibe.
12:50It's hot.
12:50When you see somebody across the bar, they come up to you.
12:54You come up to them.
12:55This slow building of tension throughout the conversation.
12:59Oh, your hands touch.
13:00Oh, you're holding hands.
13:01Oh, now you're kissing.
13:04So with my ex, right, we met on Hinge.
13:08So whenever people asked us, oh, how did y'all meet?
13:11And we were like, oh, on Hinge.
13:12I'm like, this is the least romantic, least interesting story that you could tell, right?
13:18When I tell you how I met my significant other, next time I have one,
13:22it's going to be a one-car way film.
13:24Do you know what I'm saying?
13:25It's going to be cinema.
13:26I'm old fashioned.
13:27Where do you meet people in person?
13:29Well, I've been in a long relationship for now, so right now, so when these apps and
13:33stuff came about, I was already in a relationship.
13:35But I know people hit me up all the time in the inboxes and stuff, like WhatsApp and
13:40all these other apps, and I don't know what they're talking about.
13:43Okay, so he has found love and his smiling desire and all right.
13:47Yeah, the app thing just probably wouldn't work for me.
13:49I'd probably be in a lot of trouble.
13:50Even if I wasn't in a relationship, I'd just rather do that, go out and meet somebody.
13:56Social media, I don't know.
13:58Is this not my thing?
13:59I think people often weaponize masculinity against trans men.
14:06Should we do a pyramid?
14:09I can't explain myself yet.
14:11I wouldn't say I have a desire to start.
14:13I wouldn't say I have an inclination.
14:16I feel like it's about to get real.
14:17Yeah.
14:18No, this is real.
14:19It's like people project their expectation, assumption, and trauma from patriarchy onto us.
14:30And mind you, I also experienced patriarchy.
14:35Yes.
14:35I grew up fully in patriarchy, being oppressed.
14:39Like, I understand.
14:40So I'm not just like a cis man.
14:43I'm not socialized that way.
14:44I think it is particularly hard to find your relationship with masculinity, especially when you're
14:51young, to embrace it, to learn how to embody it when you have your own trauma from it.
14:56Do you know?
14:56And I think at that point, it's a very vulnerable point.
15:01And sometimes, just like say, not everybody in the community are safe, and people exploit them.
15:06Do you know?
15:07People use it against us as a way to manipulate us, to control us, to have power over us,
15:14to create narratives about us, and just to weaponize this really precious thing that
15:20we work so hard to become. As a community, especially, we want to overcorrect patriarchy.
15:27Obviously, you know, we want to uplift our women. We want to amplify their voice and protect them.
15:33Of course, you can't hide behind femininity and get away with things.
15:38I think people really want to assume that trans men move through the world the same way as cis men
15:45do,
15:46because it's easier on trans ideology.
15:48Because then you can be like, trans men are men, trans women are women,
15:52and these kind of simplified slogans that we have to say,
15:55to like fight for our basic rights in the current climate.
15:58But that's not the reality. By and large, trans men don't have the resources that cis men do.
16:04For me to say I'm trans mask, or I'm not exactly saying I want to be treated like a man.
16:11Do you know? I think we were all agreeing that that's a very
16:15simplified way for people to understand transness or gender.
16:18I don't want to be treated like a cis man. I really don't.
16:22I'm just embodying masculinity in the way that most aligned with me,
16:28my soul, my essence since I was born.
16:31Society just reacts to my presence in the way they know how.
16:35And oftentimes they put me in that category.
16:39If we look around just at this group, we probably all move through the world pretty differently.
16:44Male privilege obviously exists, but it is not conferred universally upon trans men.
16:52There's a really big difference between being, for example, a white man who walks through the world,
16:57and a black man or a man of color who walks through the world that doesn't confer the same kind
17:02of privilege.
17:03I go out in the world, I get read as a woman about 40-50% of the time.
17:08Okay, I'm not really receiving the male privilege that is getting projected upon me.
17:15And even if I did, I'm like a hundred pound Asian man.
17:18I had this huge moment where I had grown my hair out and I got catcalled and followed on the
17:24street and flashed for the first time.
17:26And then the next day I cut my hair and I was like, great, I'm gonna feel safe.
17:30I look in the mirror afterwards and I was like, I look like a faggot.
17:32Like, I look like a faggot.
17:34Still not safe.
17:35I think that there's a lot of nuance to the way trans men individually move through the world.
17:40And you can't really be like, all of them are men and all of them therefore are toxic or have
17:46this privilege.
17:47I noticed that like white people perceive me as more masculine,
17:50whereas black people, it's like, could just be a stud, you know what I mean?
17:53Right.
17:53They're not just assuming that I'm a man because of like the way I look, which is what I want,
17:58by the way.
17:59Right.
17:59I'm in the space where like, I acknowledge that sometimes I do have male privilege,
18:03but also at the same time, like last week I did get called sweetheart way too many times by like
18:09a customer.
18:10We move about the world as men sometimes and also as not sometimes.
18:16I think it's really hard for trans men to express anger or frustration without automatically being
18:24perceived as aggressive or violent.
18:27And on the flip side of that, I feel like there's often emotional neglect that happens with trans
18:32masculine people.
18:34There have been women who have expressed like, you know, you're too sensitive or, you know,
18:37you need a man up and it's like, it's really, really unfair.
18:40I find that in my experience as a white trans man, more often I feel like there's more of an
18:46asterisk put on my identity. Whereas like trans men of color will have masculinity weaponized against
18:52them. I am in a place of having more privilege and I do need to acknowledge that, utilize it,
18:59and make more space for people's voices to be heard and treated equally.
19:05Wow. This is like the hottest take I've seen low key because it's something that's really,
19:09I feel only talked about amongst trans men.
19:13I also just feel less likely to be believed if I'm hurt in a scenario.
19:19There were times where I feel like my consent was violated and I'd be like,
19:22well, nobody's going to believe me.
19:23And that was like a new feeling and also a pretty scary feeling.
19:28So yeah, that was the, that was the only one that it made me be like,
19:31Oh, I have to think real hard. I have to think before I speak.
19:35I think that's the next step of us as a community, at least to have a conversation.
19:41If I want to embody a different type of masculinity, one that's safe, that's steady,
19:46that shows up, that is uplifting others, not legal driven, but communal building,
19:52that is gentle, but has solid boundaries.
19:55I have a hot take. These takes are not that hot to me.
19:58Maybe the one about like masculinity is weaponized against trans men.
20:02That's kind of hot in our community because I feel like that's a taboo thing to talk about,
20:06but I don't think it's crazy.
20:08I will say you guys did not include my greatest problem dating as a trans man,
20:13which was that everyone keeps falling in love with me.
20:15And I think maybe we should talk more about that.
20:17My favorite part of the discussion today was definitely just hanging out with a bunch of trans guys.
20:21I liked this crew. They were really fun. Have us back. We'll do part two.
20:24Trans men's experiences are so diverse, which is why it's good that we had a diverse group of people,
20:31because it really matters like your race, the place you grew up in, your access to hormones.
20:37A lot of our stories get told through the lenses of other people.
20:40So it's really nice when we can just be like, here is how it is and bounce ideas off of
20:46each other
20:46and find more nuanced ways to talk about issues that we face.
20:50I think that it's important that people understand that trans people are not a monolith.
20:56It's just nice to see the boys chatting.
20:58We all do have such vastly different experiences, but then when we talk about it, we also find the commonality.
21:05Even in the green room, we literally said that we are free to talk about it.
21:09How am I coming off in this video? Am I a pillar of this community? Am I a good role
21:14model? Maybe not.
21:15Okay? You know, Rihanna said she never wanted to be a role model, and neither do I.
21:19Thank you. I appreciate you guys.
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