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00:00Hello and welcome to Ear to the Ground.
00:02This week on the programme, Dara will be finding out about a community initiative
00:06to bring hot meals to smaller schools.
00:08We have 2,377 primary school students that we're feeding here today.
00:14Out of this kitchen.
00:15Out of this kitchen.
00:16Ella will be spending the day with a vet using acupuncture to treat some of her patients.
00:21I just loved it and actually realised it does work.
00:26And it was a revelation.
00:27And I will be finding out how future changes to regulations might impact some dairy farms more than others.
00:34If we lost the derogation, would we be able to survive?
00:37You know, it's so much depends on what sacrifices you'd be willing to make.
01:00Finding a way to dairy farm profitably but in line with EU regulations around water quality can be a challenge.
01:08And with further restrictions in the years ahead likely, some argue that the future of the small farm is under
01:14threat.
01:15Almost half of all Irish dairy farms operate under a special derogation from the EU, which allows them to keep
01:22more cows per hectare than is normally permitted.
01:25The derogation was first put in place 20 years ago to help farms maximise production and keep them viable.
01:33But to keep more cows, you have to grow more grass.
01:37And to do that, these farmers are allowed to exceed the current limit of 170 kilograms of organic nitrogen that
01:45they can spread on their land.
01:47It's become a very controversial issue because of the increased risk it poses to water quality from pollution.
01:56Alan and Cheryl Poole farm under this derogation.
02:00They keep 72 cows on 100 acres near Cranford, just outside Gorey in County Wexford.
02:07Tell me, how important is the derogation to you in this farm here?
02:11Well, sure, it's the same for everyone. If you lose derogation, it's a significant percentage of your income.
02:17We have done the numbers and if we were back to 170, it would be 60 cows that we'd be
02:23able to stock here.
02:23You know, kind of, you say, if we lost the derogation, would we be able to survive?
02:28You know, it's so much depends on what sacrifices you'd be willing to make.
02:32Last December, Ireland was granted a three-year extension to the derogation,
02:37leaving it the only country in the EU availing of it.
02:41Many believe that this could be the final reprieve.
02:44With just 72 cows on 100 acres of land, the Poole farm is below the average size here
02:51of 99 cows across 119 acres. It leaves them more vulnerable than others.
02:58You don't have the sort of backup of a great big operation to maybe cushion it a little bit.
03:04Alan and Cheryl farm here with their three children, Daniel, Isabel and Jacob.
03:10The couple weren't always destined for this life. They met while they were both studying science at University College Galway.
03:17We travelled after our undergrads and came back to do PhDs and mine is in research chemistry and Alan's conservation
03:24zoology.
03:24How did you come to running and managing this dairy farm?
03:29Yeah, back 19 years ago, last Christmas, my brother was here farming, but when he was 35, he had to
03:34have his hip replaced.
03:35And he decided that he wasn't going to keep farming.
03:38So mum and dad said to Cheryl and I, did we want to move home? And we jumped at the
03:41opportunity.
03:42And instead of being in research, we came back and started milking cows.
03:46Alan is the 13th generation of his family to farm this land.
03:51When EU milk quotas were removed in 2015, dairy farming here saw an unprecedented expansion.
03:59While Alan and Cheryl did increase their cow numbers, they didn't invest in any more land.
04:04We were never planning to go big and try and rent land or anything like that. That was never on
04:10our radar.
04:11We were happy with the 100 acres we have and trying to make that work as well as we can.
04:16A large part of their decision to maintain what would now be considered a relatively small farm enterprise
04:23was driven by concerns about the impact of more intensive dairy farming on the environment.
04:28I remember people saying, take out your hedgerows, make it all straightforward.
04:32And we were kind of going, what? No.
04:35We can't, that's not the plan at all.
04:37We can't expand at the expense of the environment.
04:41You know, we could still farm really well, but at the same time, give space for nature to exist
04:46and, you know, bring the two hand in hand.
04:48Last year, the Environmental Protection Agency reported that excess nutrients from agriculture
04:54continue to be one of the biggest challenges to water quality.
04:58As part of the derogation agreement, farmers must implement strict environmental measures.
05:04The Pulos live close to the River Ban, a tributary of the Slaney.
05:09They have gone beyond the required measures and now nearly a quarter of their land is given over to nature.
05:16What are we looking at out here?
05:18This is something we just did this summer.
05:20It's basically a nature-based solution, which actually marries together water quality plus creating habitat.
05:26So we're taking water that's come off lanes, house lanes, farm lanes, and we're letting it go through two sediment
05:33tanks.
05:34Yeah.
05:34So it purifies the water by letting the sediment and everything fall out of it.
05:38And it follows this path, this swale, down to the pond.
05:41It's important to us to maintain the water quality on the farm.
05:45But also, like, there's so many things you'd be worrying about, about climate and about biodiversity.
05:49This is something that we could actually see that we could do to help improve things.
05:53We would see ourselves as environmentalists who make the money from farming.
05:56Like, the environment is so important to us to protect.
05:59The environment can't suffer as a result of us making an income.
06:04Since last year, with funding from Wexford County Council, Cheryl has been visiting schools in the local area
06:10to give talks on water quality and biodiversity.
06:14Does anyone know where there's a river in Gori?
06:17Today's talk is with six class pupils in Gori Central School.
06:21And this is one of the stoneflies.
06:23So that's a really high-quality water indicator.
06:26So that's what we want to be able to see in the binogue as well.
06:29The decision of the EU to approve the extension of the derogation until the end of 2028
06:34was loudly welcomed by farming organisations.
06:37They cited a recent Chagas report which concluded that affected farmers
06:42could be facing a potential cut of 39% in their income if the derogation is removed.
06:49But environmental group Antashka said it was a shocking decision
06:53and a bad day for Irish water bodies and for everyone who relies on clean quality water in Ireland.
07:01Can you understand the opposition towards granting the derogation again?
07:05I don't think there's anyone in the countryside who isn't concerned about water quality.
07:09Like, farmers want good water quality as well.
07:11Like, it's so important that we protect the water quality and generate an income.
07:15Like, it can't be one or the other.
07:17For the likes of us, as a family farm, it would be very hard to see many of us staying
07:23in the business
07:24or into the, as in our case, the 14th generation, because it's very hard to wish that on your children
07:33to have a very insecure future.
07:37Are you confident that farmers are going to do what needs to be done over the next three years
07:42in order to save the derogation again?
07:45It's so fundamental to your farming future. Like, my income depends on derogation.
07:50I need to do everything I possibly can to protect that.
07:53Like, it starts now. Not in, you know, autumn 2027 that we start going panicking.
07:59Like, we start now and we do the right things and we do them early and, you know, work to
08:03good water quality.
08:08That's it for part one. Coming up after the break, Dara will be helping out delivering school lunches in Cork.
08:13Does everyone eat up everything?
08:16They do, in fairness.
08:17No picky eaters here at all.
08:18Oh, no, not at all.
08:19Oh, they're the best children, aren't they?
08:21And a vet with an alternative way of treating animals.
08:33The Hot School Meals programme funded by the Department of Social Protection
08:37was originally set up to service schools with pupils from disadvantaged areas.
08:42Last year, the scheme was rolled out nationally to make every primary school in the country eligible.
08:48But 30% have not yet applied.
08:52Some schools in remote areas with small pupil numbers have found it difficult to find a commercial provider.
08:59In North Cork, Duhallo Community Food Services is a group filling that gap in their area.
09:05They source the majority of their produce from local suppliers, like Tim McCarthy's butchers in Canturk,
09:11who in turn source their meat from farmers in the area.
09:15Is it only beef that you supply to the schools?
09:18No, we supply them also with low-salt bacon.
09:20There'll be chicken from time to time.
09:22There'll be pork, outdoor where possible.
09:25I can see Jack here is very busy cutting off a lot of the fat off the meat.
09:29Kids are picky.
09:29Yeah.
09:30They'll tell you exactly what they think.
09:31My children in Canturk, my nieces and nephews are on it too.
09:35So there's feedback coming on a regular basis.
09:38Yes.
09:38It must be right.
09:41Duhallo Community Food Services is a non-profit organisation.
09:45For two years they've been providing fresh meals prepared daily to schools in their area.
09:51Linda O'Connor is manager here.
09:52We are busy, busy, busy.
09:54So we have 2,377 primary school students that we're feeding here today.
10:00Out of this kitchen?
10:01Out of this kitchen.
10:02And there's quite a bit of time pressure here because, you know, the school breaks are at very, very set
10:08times.
10:09Yeah, very, very set times.
10:10You've no wriggle room?
10:11No.
10:12Everything needs to be ready at a certain time.
10:14Everything needs to leave the kitchen at a certain time.
10:16Each week, pupils and their parents receive a menu and select from six daily options.
10:21That information determines the ingredients ordered for the kitchen.
10:26The government give you guidelines for the nutritional content in the meals.
10:30It has to be X amount of protein, X amount of carbohydrate.
10:34So 80 grams of protein, 128 grams of carb and there's two servings of veg which is 160 grams.
10:41This year the government will pay nearly 286 million euro towards school meals.
10:47But for the hot meal scheme, that breaks down to just 3 euro 20 cents per meal.
10:54You made that work?
10:55It's very hard.
10:56It's hard to keep the quality, it's hard to keep the freshness, the rising cost of raw materials.
11:02I mean, 3.20, it's less than the price of a cup of coffee.
11:05These and your staff to pay, your diesel expenses, your vans to run.
11:09Overseeing the cooking is head chef, Matt Petroski.
11:12We have the tomato ragu.
11:14Tomato ragu, okay.
11:14With a lot of the veg.
11:16Lovely.
11:16We blended the veg.
11:17The consistency of the sauce is from the veg.
11:20Okay.
11:20What veg is in there?
11:22Here is some broccoli, turnip, carrot, a little bit of onion, cream and cheese.
11:27Dohalo Community Food Services is part of a larger rural development company, IRD Dohalo.
11:35Maura Walsh is CEO.
11:37What do you think of the Hot School Meals programme?
11:39Here it has a very good impact.
11:41I think we've had a lot of very positive feedback.
11:43I know nationally there is bad press sometimes and it kind of breathes a bit with what we're doing.
11:50I do think there's potential for other areas to do what we are doing.
11:53There are many of our colleagues, local development companies around the country that could do this.
11:58Does your Hot Meals programme make money for your organisation?
12:02Not at the moment because, first of all, we need a big input which is scale up our own equipment.
12:08You know, that was an initial outlay.
12:09I think it would be difficult. The amount of money is small and the schools are small.
12:14To start at a scale would be hard.
12:17Nationally, 380,000 children receive a daily lunch through the scheme.
12:23For some, it's a hot meal they might not otherwise have.
12:27However, the scheme does have its critics.
12:30Ruth Hegarty is director of Think Tank Food Policy Ireland.
12:34As a policy, it's a really positive thing in principle.
12:38What I would love to see is more models like Duhallo.
12:43But unfortunately, the way that we have rolled it out is a huge missed opportunity and even is having negative
12:48impacts.
12:50What we have here in Ireland is currently a scheme that is providing food really that's often of very low
12:57nutritional value.
12:58We're generating huge amounts of waste through the scheme, both packaging and food waste.
13:03And unfortunately, we haven't availed of the opportunity through this scheme to support local food systems, you know, so to
13:09channel this money back to Irish farms.
13:11The scheme's nutritional standards were originally established by key national dietary organisations.
13:17A spokesperson for the Department of Social Protection told Ear to the Ground that food that is high in saturated
13:24fat, sugar and salt was removed from school menus in September 2025.
13:30And that a review of the scheme's nutritional standards is currently being undertaken.
13:36They're always so pleasant and so happy to see you arriving.
13:39Duhallo supplies hot meals to 25 primary schools in their locality.
13:43I joined Jackie O'Connell on her delivery route.
13:47Our first stop was Kilcorny National School, with just 20 pupils on the roll book.
13:53Morning everybody!
13:54Morning!
13:56Roisin Roach is the principal.
13:57Alright, there you go.
13:59Does everyone eat up everything?
14:01They do, in fairness.
14:02No picky eaters here at all?
14:04Oh no, not at all.
14:04Oh, they're the best children, aren't they?
14:07All the meals are served in compostable cartons, which the children take home.
14:12While they tucked into their hot lunches, we set off for Lyre National School, a further 10 minutes away.
14:20Principal Noreen Duggan gave me a hand distributing the meals.
14:24There's quite a lot of variety for the children.
14:26The meals are nutritious.
14:27There's choice.
14:29We have children of different faiths, so they do halal food.
14:32They also do gluten-free options.
14:34There's also planar options for any of our pupils who have sensory issues
14:39and may like to eat plainer foods.
14:42Under the current scheme, the responsibility for hiring food providers, oversight of waste management
14:48and prioritising local sourcing is the responsibility of individual schools.
14:53When Lyre National School put the contract up for tender, only Duhallo was able to make it viable.
14:59Being a small rural school with 51 children, some of the private providers would not have found it cost effective
15:06to supply our school with school meals.
15:09The funding is only £3.20 per meal, so it's quite understandable how some of them would have found it
15:13difficult to meet their costs.
15:16Currently, there are guidelines advising sustainable sourcing of local produce, but no incentive within the scheme to do so.
15:24I think what we could look at is we could potentially provide top-up funding where there is organic or
15:31localised sourcing.
15:33We could be using this public funding every year and channelling it into Irish farms and boosting organic production.
15:40And I think that if we took more localised approaches to school food provision, we could do that quite easily.
15:52It is a brisk morning in Balbrigan in North County Dublin.
15:56And I'm here to meet vet Jackie O'Brien.
16:00Good morning, Jackie.
16:01Oh, good morning, Anna.
16:02How are you?
16:02Lovely to meet you.
16:03Thank you so much for having us this morning.
16:05Where are we going to?
16:06So, we've got a fairly packed day today.
16:10First off, we're going to go to a racing trainer, Tommy McCourt.
16:13Jackie approaches her work a little differently than most vets.
16:18She qualified as a certified practitioner of veterinary acupuncture in 2018.
16:23In veterinary medicine, we treat symptoms and we treat things after the fact of them having occurred,
16:30whereas acupuncture would try and help prevent the injury occurring in the first place.
16:36Jackie specialises in horses.
16:39Her first call is to the yard of trainer Tom McCourt in Stamullum in Meath.
16:45He has a mare showing signs of soreness.
16:48What's her name, Tom?
16:50The bog bank.
16:51The bog bank.
16:52The bog bank.
16:52The bog bank.
16:53Oh, look at her.
16:55She's beautiful.
16:56She's beautiful.
16:57Yeah.
16:57How old is she?
16:58She'd be eight year old now.
17:00Yeah.
17:00Hello.
17:02She's had a lot of racing, so you're going to get a little bit of wear and tear and joints.
17:06She probably gets a bit sore over her top line as well.
17:09That's where I feel acupuncture can work well on that, you know.
17:13Before Jackie can start working on bog bank, she needs to get a clearer picture of what is going on.
17:19I'd like to bring her just for a little walk, just to see how she's moving, first of all.
17:27We're looking to make sure that she's putting each leg down evenly.
17:30We're looking to see how she's moving through her body, that she's not favouring one leg over the other.
17:38Good girl.
17:39So we're going to ask her to bend slightly.
17:42It's okay, honey.
17:43You're okay.
17:43Usually they would bend their necks quite easily around.
17:46She's a little stiff moving it this way and that way.
17:49And then I'm just going to gently see how much movement she has on her spine.
17:53It's okay.
17:54I see that you're looking at her head the whole time.
17:57I'm trying to gauge her reaction.
17:59She's a little bit stiff.
18:01Good girl.
18:04Jackie then needs to identify the acupressure points where the mare is experiencing pain.
18:10There's about 360 acupoints on the body and I'm feeling them and I'm generating patterns
18:16from which points she's sore on, trigger points.
18:20It all bundles together and it points to where she may be sore and it points to where we need
18:24to treat her.
18:25And all of this is leading to you understanding where you need to put the needles into her body.
18:30Exactly.
18:31Exactly.
18:34Acupuncture is a traditional Chinese practice.
18:37It's now established worldwide as a complementary treatment for a range of conditions, including pain.
18:45Stimulating the acupoints acts on the central nervous system and can help relieve soreness and improve function.
18:54It was curiosity that led Jackie to undertake a two-year course in veterinary acupuncture.
19:01When you were in vet college back in the mid-90s, was alternative medicine, was acupuncture, was that part of
19:08the course?
19:09Did anyone mention it?
19:10No, completely not a thing.
19:12No, completely not a thing.
19:12And it was only after nearly 20 years of treating horses that I became interested in optimising health and looking
19:21for ways to help things before they became a problem.
19:26You must have had a very strong sense that this would work and that you would get clients who wanted
19:33acupuncture for their horses.
19:34It's actually the opposite.
19:36I had no strong sense that it would work.
19:38I went in very cynical and I went to do it and I just loved it and actually realised it
19:46does work and it was a revelation.
19:48I think it helps conventional veterinary medicine as well because it gives you a better read of a horse.
19:55It just all helps with your diagnosis.
20:01Our next stop is a riding school in nearby Delvin.
20:06Jackie's here to see 34-year-old Festy, a pony she's been looking after nearly all of his long life.
20:14Good boy.
20:15He's in good nick, isn't he?
20:16He's in great nick for 34.
20:18With a back like that, he's brilliant.
20:26He's really quite stiff, bending his neck, but not too bad.
20:29So you're trying to get him to turn his neck there?
20:30I'm just asking him to turn, but the fact that he moves his leg there means that he's just...
20:35The flexibility isn't there.
20:36Isn't there.
20:37Yeah.
20:39Essentially, what our acupuncture will be doing is trying to help the muscles, to help everything so that he breathes,
20:46breathes better and uses himself better.
20:48It won't on its own bring the muscle back, but what it will do is it'll bring blood supply to
20:53the area.
20:53It'll also release biochemicals, bringing more vitality back to this area.
21:01As well as performing acupuncture, since 2022, Jackie has been a certified veterinary chiropractor.
21:10Wow, look at her.
21:11Our next call is in Gormanston, and an 18-year-old mare called Penny, owned by Kate Hutchinson.
21:19Penny has an ongoing issue with lameness, for which she's been seen by a specialist.
21:24She's a little bit sore on her right front leg, but that is a very hard exercise to ask a
21:30horse to do.
21:31But Penny's also experiencing pain elsewhere.
21:35The chiropractic treatment starts with work on her joints in her spine, to help loosen any stiffness.
21:42So it's basically a movement, in a very specific manner, to just try and nudge that back, and to get
21:50a better, more appropriate movement.
21:54Are you new to these kind of alternative treatments? In the past, would you have used them?
21:58Yeah, I would think, you know, everything together.
22:02You know, I think for a diagnosis, it's great to have your x-rays and your scans.
22:07And then afterwards, when you know what you're dealing with, all these treatments and therapies are a wonderful addition to
22:12the toolkit.
22:15She's really sore in these muscles as well.
22:17Again, it's associated with the bringing of the front legs forward.
22:21See the way she blinks like that when I'm on it?
22:24It's just, she does a long there. See that? A long deliberate blink.
22:29And she's kind of saying to me, stay there for a little while.
22:32So when you say about reading the horse and acupuncture and chiropractic helping you do that, that's a really good
22:38example.
22:39Yeah, yeah, it is. Yeah.
22:43Jackie's alternative approach to treating horses has made her more attuned to them,
22:48as well as to the nature of the connection between the animals and their owners.
22:54I like their relationship with their animals and how empathetic the animals are towards their owners.
23:01It's amazing how much horses are doing for their owners all the time. And we don't even know.
23:15That's it for this week. Next week on Ear to the Ground.
23:18Dara sees firsthand how advances in technology continues to change how we farm.
23:24I firmly believe that in order for farming to progress, we need to adopt these technologies.
23:31We need to work with them.
23:32Ella will be meeting members of a community still coming to terms with a major fish kill onto Blackwater.
23:39And I'll be finding out who is top dog at the Trials of the Glen in Donegal.
23:43That's it. No good for tomorrow. I can't even blame the dog. I have to blame myself.
23:48Don't forget that this program will be repeated on Sunday at lunchtime after the farming weather.
23:54You can contact us on Facebook and follow us on X.
23:57And you can hear more farming stories on Countrywide this Saturday morning on RTE Radio 1.
24:03We'll see you next time.
24:05RTE Radio 1.
24:06RTE Radio 1.
24:21RTE Radio 1.
24:26RTE Radio 2.
24:30You
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