L'ottantenne Coltilde Fossati è l'ultima abitante di un edificio desolato rilevato da una finanziaria: si rifiuta di lasciare casa sua, fa sprangare le finestre e non dimentica mai di chiudere a chiave la doppia porta. Un giorno, forse rassegnata all'idea di dover lasciare l'appartamento, prende appuntamento per visitarne uno poco distante, ma a quell'appuntamento non si recherà mai. Tilde viene trovata riversa sul pavimento l'11 giugno 1988. #BluNotte #CarloLucarelli #ColdCase #Crime #TrueCrime #Giallo #CronacaNera
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TVTrascrizione
00:27Music
00:58Music
01:13What we're telling you this evening is a classic detective story.
01:17Due to the characteristics of the place where it happened, the personality of the victim, what happened to her,
01:23if it were only a figment of the imagination, the case of Mrs. Clotilde would have been written by the queen of detective stories in
01:29person,
01:30by Agata Cristi.
01:32But since it is set in Milan, perhaps it is more correct to attribute it to a great master of the Italian thriller
01:37like Renato Olivieri,
01:39a stately building in Old Milan, an 80-year-old lady, alone, a piano teacher.
01:46It really does read like a detective story.
01:50Music
01:51Music
02:10Since it really happened, the case of Clotilde Fossati is not found in the pages of detective novels,
02:16but in those of the news and unfortunately of the crime news.
02:20It happened in Milan, in a building on Corso di Porta Romana, at number 36, a stone's throw from the Police Headquarters.
02:27and from the Corriere della Sera.
02:29It's July 10, 1988.
02:52Even if it is not a detective novel, but a true fact and an ugly fact,
02:56Our mystery begins like the most classic of detective novels, with a door left ajar.
03:02The half-open door is that of an apartment on the second floor of an elegant building
03:07and the ones who find themselves facing it are some firefighters and the niece of the lady who lives in that apartment,
03:13Mrs. Clotilde.
03:15The niece hasn't heard from her aunt for two days.
03:18For two days Mrs. Clotilde has not answered anyone and has not shown up to anyone,
03:23not even from those students he was supposed to be teaching.
03:27Mrs. Clotilde lives alone in that apartment,
03:31last remaining of a series of tenants evicted over time
03:34and it seems almost disappeared, as if swallowed up by that four-story building in the center of Milan.
03:40You can see she felt bad, thinks the granddaughter,
03:44and calls the fire brigade because he already expects to have to break down the door
03:48and go in to see what happened to my aunt.
03:50But no, that door is ajar.
03:53And that's not even a normal door, it's an armored door,
03:57one of those that are usually never left open.
04:00No, something happened, something strange happened, something serious.
04:07The granddaughter gets scared and doesn't want to come in.
04:10And then send the firefighters forward,
04:12who pass through that first half-open door
04:14and they also open a second one,
04:16one of those glass doors that were used in apartments back in the day.
04:19They enter the apartment, but immediately rush out to call 911.
04:29What happened?
04:31Lorenzo Viganò went to ask Dr. Gaetano D'Amato.
04:35Today deputy commissioner of the Piacenza police headquarters,
04:38but then in 1988 he was deputy director of the Milan mobile squad.
04:42Dr. D'Amato, how did the Tilda Fossati murder case begin?
04:48It's June 88, around the moon, moon at night,
04:54so it's the night between Saturday and Sunday.
04:59The operations center receives from the Milan police headquarters,
05:02receives a report from the firefighters
05:04of the presence of a corpse inside a house,
05:08in Corso di Porta Nuova at number 36, just a stone's throw from the police headquarters.
05:11What did the crime scene look like?
05:13Well, here I have to say that the crime scene presented itself in a
05:16truly special, truly different from other cases.
05:22And what was most striking was the discrepancy,
05:26that is, the difference in relationship between the way in which the body was found,
05:31poor Clotilde Fossati was actually groaning on her back,
05:35with his arms outstretched in the living room, with his skull completely smashed in,
05:41that is, you could clearly see this enormous pressure
05:46which had been practiced in hitting her on the skull,
05:52and these numerous stab wounds to the abdomen.
05:57and the absolute composure of the house, that is, practically everything was in perfect order.
06:05That is, there were no signs of a struggle?
06:07Absolutely, there were no signs of a struggle,
06:10nor any signs of dragging.
06:13All that was noticeable were blood spatters,
06:17that is, this very form of blood that comes out in a violent manner,
06:23and that's it.
06:24Then everything else was absolutely in perfect order,
06:28without even a single chair having been moved or moved
06:34during the stages of the murder.
06:37And the only thing out of place was a painting,
06:40a painting that had been removed from the wall,
06:42which had been placed on a small sofa,
06:46and which showed traces of blood,
06:48evidently it had probably been removed after the murder,
06:53that is, after the crime,
06:54so he had left this trail of blood on the painting.
06:57Everything in perfect order,
06:59that apartment with an old-fashioned look, like those of the past,
07:02like those in the novels of Augusto De Angelis,
07:05set in Milan in the 1930s,
07:07like the Tre Rose hotel.
07:09Entrance hall, dining room, kitchen, bedroom and bathroom,
07:13everything in perfect order, everything very clean.
07:16And there in the middle is Mrs. Clotilde.
07:21Someone killed her, someone bashed her head in
07:24and then stabbed her at least 10 times.
07:27Who was it and why?
07:29But this is not the only mystery of our case.
07:32In that perfectly tidy apartment,
07:34there are many other strange details,
07:36which are immediately noticed by the police.
07:46There's that painting removed from the wall, stained with blood.
07:50There is a bottle of liquor on the dining room table
07:52which seems to have just begun,
07:54with two small glasses containing traces of that same liquor.
07:58Next to the lady is an old kitchen knife,
08:01with the handle without cheekpieces.
08:03Blood stained.
08:04Always next to her is found a heavy bottle of faceted glass,
08:08one of those old bottles, from Rosaglio.
08:11Blood stained.
08:12The house keys are inserted into the lock regularly,
08:16from the inside, and there is no sign of forced entry.
08:18There are two cigarette butts in an ashtray.
08:22And there's blood, splattered on the walls, behind that painting,
08:25and also in the kitchen, inside the sink.
08:27A sign that the killer has washed himself.
08:30The only thing missing from the apartment,
08:32from that old-fashioned apartment,
08:34it's Mrs. Clotilde's bag,
08:35that a sanitation employee
08:38found a few hours later in a nearby waste bin.
08:41Inside there are documents,
08:43a pair of glasses, a bottle of colic,
08:45the checkbook and an empty purse.
08:49A murder for the purpose of robbery.
08:51A thief, who enters to steal,
08:53he is surprised by Mrs. Clotilde and kills her.
08:56Impossible.
08:57Mrs. Clotilde, a few months earlier,
08:59he had suffered a theft.
09:00300,000 lire had been stolen from her bedroom.
09:04From then on he no longer trusted.
09:06He always kept his security door closed
09:08and only opened when he knew exactly
09:10who was on his landing.
09:13Not only that.
09:15The thieves had entered through the windows,
09:17in broad daylight,
09:18when the lady was not at home.
09:20They had passed through the scaffolding
09:22that the renovation company
09:23had built along the external walls.
09:26So, Mrs. Clotilde had called a carpenter
09:29to have the windows blocked with wooden boards.
09:32He always kept the windows closed,
09:34so much so that in that apartment
09:35he always had to keep the light on.
09:41Sealed at home.
09:43How strange.
09:44He is a character who intrigues
09:46that of Mrs. Clotilde,
09:48just like a real character from a novel.
09:51It makes you want to know more.
09:52So let's go to Milan,
09:54in that Milan that seems to have come out
09:55from the novels of Olivieri and Augusto De Angelis,
09:58and let's really try to know
10:00who was Mrs. Clotilde.
10:06Mrs. Clotilde's is an ancient Milan.
10:09It is not a forgotten or hidden Milan.
10:11It's the Milan of memories,
10:12but of living memories,
10:13of those that keep coming back to mind
10:15as if they were still there, present.
10:18Memories are not ghosts,
10:20they are not ghosts returning from the darkness.
10:21A city's memories are its past
10:24that merges with the present.
10:33That of Mrs. Clotilde
10:35it is the Milan of Renato Olivieri's novels,
10:37so unequal, surprising,
10:39severe at times,
10:41then popular, cheerful,
10:42even ambiguous,
10:43like certain temperamental women.
10:45It's the Milan of the canals
10:46that suddenly make you remember
10:48that this city was also a city of water.
10:50The one in Madame Strauss,
10:52always by Olivieri,
10:53It has the charm of certain memories.
11:01It is a Milan that lives and moves,
11:03that burns and lights up the night,
11:06which changes continuously,
11:07but where suddenly,
11:09as in the Codra case,
11:10you can still find an area full of low houses,
11:12with internal gardens,
11:14and vegetable gardens, guesthouses, small hotels,
11:15free-style doors, shops.
11:18Olivieri's Milan,
11:20like that of Cerbanenco or Augusto De Angelis,
11:22it's also a black Milan,
11:23blacker than the night,
11:25a Milan that scares,
11:26the Milan of crimes.
11:28It's there, in that ancient and strange Milan,
11:30that Mrs. Clotilde lives.
11:32Mrs. Clotilde was born in 1908
11:36and he was 80 years old.
11:38She was a lady known to all
11:40and well-liked,
11:41very active,
11:42very vital,
11:43who went out with friends
11:44and often offered an aperitif to local merchants.
11:47She was always very well-groomed and well-dressed.
11:51She had been a widow for 24 years
11:53and lived alone
11:54supplementing her husband's pension
11:56with piano lessons,
11:57which he regularly gave to students,
11:59who then always remained very fond of her.
12:02They came back to visit her
12:03and they gave her news
12:04on their conservatory exams.
12:06Who was Mrs. Clotilde?
12:07and what his character was,
12:09one of his former students tells us about it,
12:12Anna Maria Massarelli,
12:13interviewed for us by Alessandro Riva.
12:16I have a very sweet memory
12:17of my teacher,
12:20because he was a kind person,
12:23she was affectionate,
12:24He loved children and young people very much.
12:29There was no malice in what...
12:31in her, in short.
12:33It was nice to be in his company.
12:34Was it also open then?
12:35It was as open as it could be opened.
12:38anyway with us students.
12:43It was certainly a good feeling to be in his company,
12:46one could even confide in oneself.
12:48She was always available
12:49to give advice.
12:51He was a very curious person,
12:55very open to knowledge,
12:59in short, in a broad sense.
13:01Clotilde Fossati always came to our house
13:03from his students.
13:04How come?
13:06Yes, because he didn't love anyway
13:10receive people at home.
13:13No, so it was his choice
13:15go to the home from the beginning
13:17of his students.
13:18But why was he afraid?
13:19Because he was afraid,
13:20because he didn't want to, in short,
13:22too much hassle.
13:23and then in my opinion it was also a way
13:27like another one to go around, in short.
13:31Yes, so to keep active.
13:33Yes, to keep active, exactly.
13:34Because he always told me
13:35who managed to stay slim
13:37precisely because it was spinning like a top
13:39at the homes of all his students.
13:41Since the early twentieth century,
13:43that is, practically since she was born,
13:44Mrs. Clotilde has always lived there,
13:47in that apartment
13:47of Corso di Porta Nuova number 36.
13:50Always there, in that apartment,
13:53in that building, in that street,
13:54where he practically knows everyone.
13:57Alessandro Riva and Lorenzo Viganò
13:59they went there, in Corso di Porta Nuova,
14:01to see how things were.
14:12We met them in their studio
14:14of journalists, experts in faithful reconstructions
14:17of real news stories.
14:30This is our studio, I like it.
14:32This is beautiful.
14:34I'm adjusting the line.
14:36Hi Carlo.
14:37HI.
14:38You have studied and consulted some papers,
14:41so of articles
14:42and elements on the subject.
14:44Yes.
14:45Here, to understand the personality
14:47of Mrs. Tilde,
14:48we need to understand the relationship he had
14:51with the apartment he was staying in.
14:52What was this relationship like?
14:54It was a very close relationship.
14:56She in that house,
14:57in that apartment on Corso di Porta Nuova
14:59at 36,
14:59she was born there,
15:01she had lived there with her husband
15:02and continued to live there,
15:03even though she was now the last tenant
15:06to live in that building,
15:07that palace that had been bought
15:08from a real estate agent
15:09who in turn sold the apartments
15:11and which he had now completely gutted,
15:13even the apartments
15:14they no longer had the floor,
15:16except for the apartment, of course
15:17where Clotilde Fossati lived,
15:19which was the last one
15:20not yet having been released,
15:23even though he had received eviction notice
15:25for 4 years.
15:27Here's the eviction,
15:28How did he react to the eviction?
15:30He had reacted badly,
15:32that of the eviction
15:33had become the problem
15:35and the anguish of those last years,
15:37he talked about it to his friends,
15:40to the neighbors of the street,
15:41to the shopkeepers,
15:43to piano students,
15:44in short, everyone knew
15:45of this problem
15:46by Clotilde Fossati
15:48that had to go away
15:48from the house where she was born
15:49and the thing that was troubling him
15:51in particular.
15:52So much so that it had arrived
15:53to a bit of a clash
15:55with real estate
15:55why she should have
15:57leave by April 30th
16:00and real estate in the meantime
16:01he had sold the house
16:03and she however on April 30th
16:05she hadn't left
16:06and he didn't want to leave
16:07and this is precisely
16:08had created a problem
16:10for real estate
16:11because the new tenant
16:12once he realized
16:13that on May 30th
16:15when he should have
16:16draw up the deed
16:17and he had noticed
16:18that the house was still occupied
16:19he wanted to withdraw from the purchase.
16:20It's so true
16:21that just in the days
16:22immediately preceding
16:23the crime had intensified
16:25the negotiations
16:26and the relationships
16:27with the real estate company
16:28to ensure that
16:29Clotilde Fostati
16:31leave the apartment
16:32by June 14th.
16:35From that house
16:35Mrs. Clotilde
16:37he doesn't want to leave
16:38it's a thing
16:39who doesn't want to accept
16:40and he fights for this too
16:41but in the end he has to give in.
16:44Looking for a house
16:44big enough
16:45to contain
16:46even his old piano
16:47that he absolutely does not want to leave.
16:49find it nearby
16:51and he also agrees
16:52for a good exit.
16:53But
16:54she is worried
16:55Mrs. Clotilde
16:56and not just for moving.
16:58When was the last time
16:59what did Clotilde see?
17:00Was
17:02on the occasion
17:03of my birthday
17:04my eighteenth birthday
17:06And
17:07I had invited her
17:08to eat
17:09At home
17:10at lunch.
17:11That was
17:12the only one
17:13the last one
17:14the last one
17:16our meeting
17:17it's the only time
17:18That
17:18it stopped
17:20at someone's house
17:20to eat.
17:22She was cheerful
17:22but that evening?
17:23She was cheerful
17:24Yes.
17:25She was cheerful
17:26although
17:26the expression on his face
17:28it had changed anyway
17:29it was different
17:30more tense
17:31more pulled
17:31she was happy
17:32maybe also for one fact
17:33of circumstance
17:34Why
17:35it couldn't be
17:36otherwise
17:36but
17:38me and my family
17:39we had noticed
17:40that anyway
17:40something
17:41had changed
17:43in the context
17:44of his serenity
17:45of his tranquility
17:47that something
17:48she was worried
17:49yes yes
17:49seriously
17:50that worried her
17:51seriously
17:52and then
17:52what
17:54to me
17:55particularly
17:56I was sorry
17:56it was the pain
17:57deep
17:58that she
17:58he was just trying
17:59to the idea
18:00of having to leave
18:01that house
18:01he had to all
18:02his affections
18:05his story
18:06from that house
18:07I'll go away
18:08only when dead
18:09he always said
18:10Mrs. Clotilde
18:11that's what happened
18:13Unfortunately
18:13the coroner
18:15establishes
18:16that Mrs. Clotilde
18:17she died
18:17for internal bleeding
18:19caused by those
18:20ten stab wounds
18:21Mrs. Clotilde
18:23he has on his neck
18:24under the corners of the chin
18:25two slags
18:26someone
18:27he grabbed her
18:28for the throat
18:28and for the shot
18:29the lady
18:30she got hurt
18:31the tongue with the teeth
18:32Then
18:32this someone
18:34he hit her
18:34with that bottle
18:35multifaceted
18:36so strong
18:37enough to smash her skull
18:38he left her
18:39fall to the ground
18:40stunned
18:40and that would have been enough
18:42the one to kill her
18:42but he
18:43continued
18:44with those ten stab wounds
18:45to the chest
18:46and to the abdomen
18:47three of which
18:48inflicted
18:49when the lady
18:49she was still alive
18:50poor Mrs. Clotilde
18:53the hour of death
18:54is established
18:55with a certain ease
18:56and with a relative
18:58certainty
18:59until 11
19:00of that Friday morning
19:01Mrs. Clotilde
19:03he's at home
19:03and we know it
19:04because with her
19:05there is the maid
19:06that every week
19:07just on Friday
19:07he goes to do the cleaning
19:09while the maid
19:11he's at home
19:11the lady receives
19:12the phone call
19:13of a friend
19:21at 12.55
19:22Mrs. Clotilde
19:24he's talking
19:25on the phone
19:25with his lawyer
19:26and in fact
19:27the mistress
19:28of real estate
19:29who tries to call her back
19:29find busy
19:30immediately after
19:32at 1pm
19:32the mistress
19:34of real estate
19:34recall
19:35but the lady
19:36he doesn't answer
19:37the phone
19:38it sounds long
19:38empty
19:59a few hours later
20:00around 3.30pm
20:02the operator
20:03of urban cleaning
20:04he has already found
20:04the bag
20:05of Mrs. Clotilde
20:06in that basket
20:07which means
20:08that the lady
20:09she was killed
20:09in that short span
20:10of time
20:11and probably
20:12around 1pm
20:13who was it?
20:15but here it is
20:16what emerged
20:16it definitely emerged
20:17the fact
20:18that the victim
20:19knew the murderer
20:20here it is
20:21Why?
20:22because they had been
20:23found some elements
20:23objective
20:24Indeed
20:26was found
20:27an ashtray
20:28with two cigarette butts
20:29of cigarettes
20:29of the Malboro brand
20:32two glasses
20:33two small glasses
20:35contained traces
20:36of witch liqueur
20:38in fact close
20:39a bottle was found
20:40the absolute
20:41as I was telling you before
20:42perfect location
20:44of the furniture
20:44within
20:45of the apartment
20:45so the scene
20:46it was that we
20:47we represented each other
20:49it was that one
20:50of an interview
20:51of a person
20:52that the victim
20:53he knew
20:53and he had to know well
20:55We must also emphasize
20:56this aspect
20:57Why
20:58one thing that among other things
20:59it struck at the moment
21:00of the inspection
21:01it was to see
21:02that this dwelling
21:04the only one
21:05lived inside
21:06of a palace
21:07under complete renovation
21:08so this woman
21:09it was still the only one
21:10tenant of everything
21:11the building
21:11that they were renovating
21:13that even
21:14he lived with windows
21:15barred
21:16and so he lived
21:17always with the light
21:18lit
21:19there was no source
21:20of direct light
21:21from the outside
21:21of the house
21:22so even more so
21:23we thought
21:24that the person
21:24who had entered the house
21:26not only was it supposed to be
21:27of his knowledge
21:28but of a person
21:29whom he trusted there
21:30absolutely
21:31the victim
21:32he knew his killer
21:35to prove it
21:36there would be the fact
21:37that the lady
21:38he would never have opened
21:39to a stranger
21:40there's that feeling
21:42of order
21:42that is noticeable
21:43throughout the apartment
21:45there is also the exam
21:46toxicological
21:46which demonstrates
21:47that Mrs. Clotilde
21:49shortly before being killed
21:50he took over
21:51a modest amount
21:52of alcohol
21:52and there are
21:53those two little glasses
21:54arranged in an orderly fashion
21:56on the coffee table
21:57as when it is offered
21:58to drink to a friend
21:59and then
22:00there are those two butts
22:01of cigarettes
22:02in the ashtray
22:03the maid
22:04he says that when
22:05she's gone
22:06around eleven o'clock
22:07he left the ashtrays
22:08perfectly clean
22:10Mrs. Clotilde
22:11he didn't smoke
22:12who smoked
22:13who smoked those cigarettes
22:14so quietly
22:15as during a visit
22:16the killer
22:18which direction
22:20they took over the investigations
22:21immediately after
22:21the discovery
22:22of the corpse
22:23us
22:25we had put
22:26right in the first place
22:26the fact
22:27not to leave
22:28no stone left unturned
22:29so starting
22:30from this concept
22:31that the investigation
22:32he had to turn to
22:33towards people
22:33that the ditches
22:34he knew
22:35and whom he trusted
22:36we went
22:38to make a list
22:39a real list
22:40complete
22:41precise
22:41of all people
22:43that they had had
22:44relations with the moats
22:45I say all
22:46we served ourselves
22:48some summary information
22:49testimonials
22:50of relatives
22:51of friends
22:52of acquaintances
22:53of the merchants
22:55of the road
22:55of people
22:57at which
22:58she did
22:59piano lessons
23:01of the agendas
23:02found at home
23:02of the ditches
23:03so basically
23:04we had
23:05a list
23:06of all of them
23:07the people
23:08among other things
23:08those too
23:09who had inhabited
23:10inside the building
23:10so of all people
23:11which could have been
23:12in contact
23:13from ditches
23:13and for us
23:14they were all there
23:15on the same level
23:16and towards these people
23:18the investigations were directed
23:19it was necessary to find
23:20a motive
23:21it was necessary to find
23:22also a purpose
23:23of this crime
23:25but obviously
23:27an element
23:28a subject
23:29in particular
23:30it was immediately
23:31in the center
23:31of this activity
23:32investigative
23:33necessarily
23:33and he was a worker
23:35who worked
23:36within
23:37of the building
23:38which as I was telling you before
23:39they were renovating
23:41a worker
23:42which was
23:43the only person
23:45and I underline
23:45the only person
23:46present
23:47in the building
23:48in the span of time
23:52in which surely
23:53the murder occurred
23:54and that we were able to
23:55to establish with certainty
23:56so we are
23:57during the day
23:58previous
23:59so Friday
24:00we are
24:00why Saturday
24:01Obviously
24:02they didn't work
24:04Therefore
24:04the palace
24:06it was closed
24:06and we are
24:07between 12
24:08and 1pm
24:10the worker
24:11it's one of those
24:12who work
24:12to the renovation
24:14of the palace
24:15that Friday
24:16around 12.30
24:18at the conclusion
24:19of the lunch break
24:20that consume
24:20right there on the spot
24:21in a room
24:22where they placed
24:23a table
24:23the workers go out
24:25and they go to get
24:25a coffee
24:26in a nearby bar
24:27everyone
24:28except him
24:28he stays there
24:30and then
24:31for the possible
24:32time of the crime
24:32he has no real alibi
24:34questioned by the police
24:36the worker gets confused
24:37and falls into contradiction
24:39Before
24:39he says he was
24:41on the fourth floor
24:41to get some tools
24:43Then
24:43of having remained
24:45alone
24:45in the dining hall
24:46then to have gone
24:47to the toilet
24:48first on the ground floor
24:49and then on the third floor
24:51until 1pm
24:52when they returned
24:53all the others
24:55the worker
24:56he knew Mrs. Clotilde
24:58he had been to his house
25:00a couple of times
25:00for small jobs
25:01maintenance
25:02and once
25:03together with another worker
25:04when the lady
25:06he had called them into the house
25:07to offer him an aperitif
25:10but
25:12there is no other evidence
25:13at the expense of this worker
25:15the search
25:17which is carried out
25:17at his house
25:18and during which
25:19they are also requisitioned
25:21the spare clothes
25:22that he was at the usual portal
25:23does not give
25:24no positive outcome
25:25and so we
25:26as judicial police
25:28we carry out the arrest
25:30considering
25:31there were in the comparisons
25:32of this worker
25:34more than enough
25:35and serious clues
25:36of responsibility
25:37or in any case of connection
25:38with this murder
25:39I still believe that at a distance
25:41within 48 hours
25:42it was not validated
25:43by the public prosecutor on duty
25:44which
25:44he did not consider
25:47sufficient
25:47for a
25:48the emission
25:49of an order
25:49of pre-trial detention
25:50so a validation
25:51of the arrest
25:51the mere fact
25:53that at the moment
25:53of the murder
25:54this person
25:55was present
25:56in the building
25:57and in reality
25:59I have to say
25:59that beyond
26:00let's say about this
26:02temporal placement
26:04among this suspect
26:06and the victim
26:07there were no more then
26:08additional elements
26:10at your expense
26:11of this subject
26:12at a certain point
26:13the police
26:14takes information
26:15on one of the children
26:15of the maid
26:16who knew very well
26:18Mrs. Clotilde
26:19and attended
26:20that house
26:20since I was little
26:21the police
26:22discovers that the boy
26:24he keeps bad company
26:25and who smokes
26:26cigarettes
26:26of the same brand
26:28of those found
26:28in the ashtray
26:29of Mrs. Clotilde
26:31the day of the murder
26:33it gets noticed
26:34a scooter
26:34parked under the house
26:35of Mrs. Clotilde
26:36a scooter
26:37with a bag
26:38similar to those
26:39who use the pony express
26:40and the boy
26:41he does the pony express
26:43but other indications
26:44on this scooter
26:45there aren't any
26:46and the people
26:47who live nearby
26:48to Mrs. Clotilde
26:49who also know
26:50the boy
26:50they don't say
26:51to have noticed it
26:52around
26:52that day
26:53and so the boy
26:54he leaves the investigation
26:57you hypothesized
26:57a possible motive?
26:59Yes
27:01Surely
27:01we discarded
27:02the motive
27:04or anyway
27:04I had
27:05in our hypothesis
27:07of work
27:07a liquid
27:09very low
27:10the one in the background
27:10sexual
27:11In short
27:11I am trying to say
27:13Not
27:13there were none
27:14such elements
27:15to be able to
27:16Then
27:17Here you are
27:17one more thing
27:18that struck me
27:20I want to say it
27:21it was just
27:22the compound way
27:23where it was found
27:24the dressed victim
27:25he had these pants
27:26red
27:27really
27:28and this blouse
27:29various pints
27:29which in short
27:30among other things
27:31Here you are
27:31arouses in me
27:32a very vivid memory
27:33because it was a thing
27:34that struck me
27:35at the time
27:35and then
27:38we excluded
27:39this crime
27:40sexually oriented
27:41it could have been
27:42the one for interests
27:44a profit
27:45a robbery
27:46or
27:47a request
27:48of money
27:49towards
27:50of this person
27:51a refusal
27:52something
27:53which will have unleashed
27:54or madness
27:56a moment
27:56a sudden fit of rage
27:57but in front
27:58evidently
27:59if he had had
28:00a psycholabe
28:01a person
28:02with problems
28:03a request
28:04of money
28:05Why
28:06she was rich
28:07Mrs. Clotilde
28:08the police
28:10conducts an asset investigation
28:11on the situation
28:12financial
28:13of Mrs. Clotilde
28:14she wasn't rich
28:16he was just well off
28:17but certainly not rich
28:18on the booklet
28:19of savings
28:20of the bank
28:20I had
28:21204,493 lire
28:23more
28:2499,000 lire
28:25in cash
28:26I had
28:27500 shares
28:27of the Ambrosian Bank
28:28in a box
28:30of safety
28:31I had
28:31a hundred
28:32of Swiss marenghi
28:33and then he had
28:34some gold rings
28:35some chains
28:36a pocket watch
28:37with little jewels
28:39what are the memories
28:40of a lifetime
28:40and that can be imagined
28:42guarded by a lady
28:43like Mrs. Clotilde
28:44at home though
28:46he had a safe
28:47hidden behind a painting
28:48a safe
28:50which was almost empty
28:50she wasn't rich
28:52Mrs. Clotilde
28:53someone could believe it
28:54but she wasn't rich
28:55she was an old lady
28:57in an old neighborhood
28:58of a big city
28:59like Milan
29:07when walking
29:08for a city
29:09almost always
29:10we forget
29:10to look up
29:12above all
29:13when walking
29:13in a big city
29:14a city like this
29:15they keep their eyes down
29:17on the ground
29:17to the street
29:18to traffic
29:18to the palaces
29:19and they almost never get up
29:20but where do the buildings end?
29:22we know where they start
29:23on the ground
29:24on the side
29:25in front of
29:25but where do they end up?
29:26the buildings?
29:27it would be enough to look up
29:28to discover with surprise
29:30that everyone
29:31Always
29:31they end up in the sky
29:35even the mysterious ones
29:36those of the crime news
29:38those where crimes occur
29:39like that of Mrs. Clotilde
29:40even the buildings
29:41of this great city
29:42which like the others
29:44starts from the ground
29:44and it seems to close
29:45but if you look further
29:47you realize that it goes beyond the walls
29:48and if you raise it
29:49you notice that it ends in the sky
29:52a strange city
29:53that looks gray
29:54but it isn't
29:55Andrea Pinketz also says so
29:56another of the writers
29:58of this city
29:58a crime writer
29:59like Olivieri, Scerbanenco
30:01and De Angelis
30:02Milan is not grey
30:03it's of all colors
30:04among which
30:05gray for sure
30:06but Milan is not just grey
30:08top view
30:09it's also yellow
30:09like taxis
30:10it's black as skin
30:11of the Vucunprà
30:13camouflaged at night
30:13with the city
30:14that avoids them during the day
30:15it's red
30:16like a wine from Oltrepò
30:17it's the blood
30:18of those who slaughter each other
30:19for a bottle
30:20with the shards
30:20of another bottle
30:25this city is strange
30:27strange and beautiful
30:28a city from a novel
30:29from a detective novel
30:34a difficult case
30:35it's Mrs. Clotilde's
30:36above all
30:37because it happens in 1988
30:39when certain discoveries
30:41of the scientific police
30:42they weren't there yet
30:43here for example
30:45there is someone
30:46who drank from a glass
30:47and left traces of saliva
30:49and then
30:49there are two cigarette butts
30:51of cigarettes
30:51from which it can be drawn
30:53DNA
30:53but the DNA test
30:55At that time
30:55in 1988
30:57it wasn't done yet
30:58Sin
31:00let's go to the forensic police
31:01but
31:02let's go to the commissioner
31:03Silio Bozzi
31:04and let's hear it
31:05from him
31:05what else can you tell us?
31:06the analysis
31:07of the crime scene
31:12Hi Lorenzo
31:13Greetings
31:15At that time
31:15you have on your computer
31:17the images
31:17that we shot
31:18to rebuild
31:19the crime scene
31:20what can they tell us?
31:21these images?
31:22let's go
31:23analyze them together
31:24let's go
31:26from observations
31:27very simple
31:28then we put them in line
31:29let's see what information
31:30I am able to give myself
31:31here first of all
31:32this is the living room
31:33order reigns there
31:34absolute
31:36everything is perfect
31:38tidied up
31:40the old piano
31:41an almost ancient order
31:42a painting
31:44nineteenth century
31:44look here
31:45a small table
31:47flowers
31:48bottles
31:48lamps
31:49cushions
31:50Here you are
31:51so nothing
31:52that leaves you thinking
31:53to an argument
31:54to an argument
31:55even to some movement
31:57particularly abrupt
31:59carried out
32:00or from Mrs. Clotilde
32:01or from
32:01from other people
32:03let's move on
32:05here too
32:06another feeling
32:07and details
32:08that speak to us
32:09of order
32:10some bottles
32:11with this
32:12old coffee table
32:13bottles
32:14bottles
32:15always bottles
32:16these are details
32:17which will then turn out to be
32:17important
32:18in the continuation
32:18of ours
32:20narration
32:21let's move on
32:23another observation
32:24what happened
32:25in here
32:26someone smoked
32:28how many people
32:29it is not known
32:30a person
32:31he smoked
32:32two cigarettes
32:33or two
32:34they formed
32:35a cigarette
32:36each one
32:37it is not known
32:37back in order
32:39here's more
32:40there is a sign
32:42evident
32:43of a certain
32:43ceremonial
32:44then of a meeting
32:46quite quiet
32:47apparently
32:48here are two glasses
32:50rosolio glasses
32:51even old glasses
32:53order
32:53some flowers
32:54Nothing
32:55nothing at all
32:55that leaves you thinking
32:56to something
32:57that didn't go
32:58to an argument
32:59or some misunderstanding
33:00or a gesture
33:01also in consultation
33:02even involuntary
33:02on someone's part
33:04but let's see
33:05that something
33:06it happened
33:06in these places
33:07so ordered
33:08this is a reproduction
33:10quite faithful
33:13of the state
33:13where it was found
33:14Mrs. Clotilde
33:16Here you are
33:16I would make two groups for you
33:18of evaluation
33:18the first group
33:21of order
33:21psychological
33:22that is, evaluation
33:23psychological type
33:25the other group
33:26of evaluation
33:26of a technical nature
33:28let's see the first group
33:29elementary assessments
33:31of a psychological nature
33:33we saw
33:34that order
33:35that living room
33:36first assessment
33:37what kind of bottle is it
33:38a massive bottle
33:40from the body
33:41stocky
33:41very robust
33:42very heavy
33:43another elementary observation
33:45a bottle
33:46empty
33:46or almost empty
33:47with very little liquid
33:49the killer
33:50he didn't take
33:52the bottle
33:53on site
33:54so in the same place
33:55in which he launched
33:55the bottle shot
33:56he took it from another place
33:58we don't know where
33:59if in the living room
34:00in the kitchen
34:01or in another environment
34:02he took it
34:04in another place
34:04I understand
34:05so not the first bottle
34:06that is found at hand
34:07but a bottle
34:08who goes to get
34:09fundamental
34:09fundamental
34:10Therefore
34:12what does this mean?
34:13that the murderer
34:14he chose
34:14so he had
34:15the possibility
34:15to choose
34:16a bottle
34:17among many
34:18why he chooses that bottle
34:19it's a given weapon
34:20to commit a murder
34:21here we fly
34:22towards the second group
34:23of evaluation
34:24of a technical nature
34:25it's a given weapon
34:26it's a given weapon
34:26Yes
34:27consider this
34:28this fact
34:29Charles
34:30that the murderer
34:31was able to accomplish
34:32a certain route
34:33we don't know which one
34:34more or less long
34:35but without waking up
34:37no worries
34:38in the poor
34:40Mrs. Clotilde
34:40a bottle
34:41ideal
34:42which was used
34:43in a bad way
34:44in club-like ways
34:45own
34:45to destroy
34:46in fact Mrs. Clotilde
34:47had
34:50of the injuries
34:51fractures
34:52deforming
34:53devastating
34:54truly terrible
34:55but
34:56what characteristics
34:57physics has this bottle
34:59in addition to the fact
35:00to be robust
35:01has a body
35:02very massive
35:04wide
35:04vast
35:05with a large surface area
35:06with a neck
35:07very small
35:09very small
35:10very short
35:11so a couple of centimeters
35:12and how is it possible
35:13to brandish
35:14so have
35:15a
35:16a socket
35:18firm
35:18having a body
35:20the body of the bottle
35:21so sturdy
35:22so vast
35:22so heavy
35:23If you want
35:24with a neck
35:25so small
35:26impossible
35:28there was a need
35:29of a
35:30an extension
35:32so to ensure
35:33the solidity
35:34of the socket
35:34this extension
35:36Here you are
35:36this we have
35:36a bottle
35:37similar to that one
35:38which was used
35:39to hit the
35:40the woman
35:40the extension
35:41was represented
35:43from this
35:44from the cap
35:45which in fact
35:45it was found
35:46bloody
35:46it too
35:47nearby
35:47Certain
35:48you can see how
35:49in a situation
35:50of the genre
35:51these are
35:52just two centimeters
35:53it would have been
35:54practically impossible
35:55for the attacker
35:58to turn around
35:58to brandish
35:59with two fingers
36:00just look
36:01with two fingers
36:02yes yes yes
36:02why a neck
36:03so short
36:04does not allow
36:05to the other three fingers
36:05Certain
36:06to strike a blow
36:07so violent
36:07to maintain
36:08a firm grip
36:09so he would have risked
36:10very much
36:10the bottle
36:11would be
36:12slipped backwards
36:13most likely
36:15here though
36:15with the cap
36:16No
36:16what kind of cork was it
36:18it wasn't the classic cork
36:19let's move on Lorenzo
36:20with images
36:21it wasn't the classic cork
36:22everything entirely
36:24crystal
36:24then with the end
36:26cone-shaped
36:26Why
36:27if not, they will love it
36:29would have had
36:29extreme difficulties
36:30he would have slipped
36:32away
36:32it would have been
36:33engaged
36:34in a continuous grip
36:35cap grip
36:37and he couldn't have
36:38practice
36:38that fast action
36:40quick
36:40and devastating
36:41that has
36:44the detail
36:45which was then decisive
36:47it is represented precisely
36:48from this cap
36:49this type of cap
36:50Here you are
36:50with this gasket
36:52with wings
36:53that enters
36:54easily
36:55inside the neck
36:57of the bottle
36:57but it comes out
36:58with some difficulty
36:59so the killer
37:00was able to
37:00calmly
37:01maybe hiding
37:02the bottle
37:03with your own body
37:05so bringing it
37:07out for a walk
37:08or
37:09keeping it like this
37:10in an apparently
37:11harmless
37:11to overturn
37:12in this way
37:14the bottle
37:14keeping the cap on
37:17well fixed
37:17and thus ensuring
37:18a socket
37:19absolutely solid
37:21Certain
37:22and choose a bottle
37:24half-empty
37:24and choose a bottle
37:26half-empty
37:26another detail
37:27here we return too
37:28to the possibility
37:29of choice
37:30in quotation marks
37:31why he chooses
37:32a bottle
37:33or prefer
37:34a bottle
37:35empty
37:37it's because
37:38the killer didn't know
37:40so if
37:42the bottle
37:43that he would have used
37:44it would have broken
37:45he couldn't have known
37:47and in case of bottle
37:48with some liquid
37:49with some rosolio
37:50with alcohol
37:51of brandy
37:52it would be completely
37:54flooded
37:55of dressed alcohols
37:57it's much more difficult
37:58to get off one's back
37:59the stench
38:00and precisely
38:00the liquid
38:01so alcohol
38:02brandy
38:03the rosolio
38:03whatever you want to say
38:04that not the blood
38:05for example
38:06here then after hitting her
38:08with the bottle
38:08he's going to get a knife
38:10and keep hitting her
38:11with a different weapon
38:12yes it follows here too
38:13a certain method
38:14the killer is
38:15I'm not saying calm down
38:17but cold
38:17shiny
38:18in his action
38:18then come back
38:20next to the corpse
38:21with the knife
38:22and here it strikes
38:24in a limited area
38:25in vital points
38:27to the heart
38:27to the chest
38:28to the chest
38:30And
38:31Three
38:32if I remember correctly
38:33in the abdomen
38:35Here you are
38:35maintaining
38:36a certain distance
38:37On the contrary
38:38the greatest distance
38:38possible
38:39to himself
38:40and the body
38:40so as not to get dirty
38:41Certain
38:41so without getting dirty
38:43necessarily of blood
38:44but how little
38:44he had to get dirty
38:48smashing the face
38:49of the lady
38:50with the bottle
38:51maximum possible distance
38:53maximum determination
38:55it's shiny
38:56from the very first moment
38:57in which he decided
38:58to take out the lady
38:59let's make some hypotheses
39:01Mrs. Clotilde
39:03she was killed
39:04from a person
39:04who knew well
39:05otherwise these
39:07he wouldn't have succeeded
39:08to enter so easily
39:10Mrs. Clotilde
39:11she was killed
39:12from a person
39:13whom he trusted
39:14otherwise
39:15we would have had
39:15signs of struggle
39:25It's 12.30pm
39:26Mrs. Clotilde
39:28let his killer in
39:33why shouldn't it?
39:34he knows him well
39:35she's used to receiving it
39:36and has nothing to fear
39:42they sit in the dining room
39:44and Mrs. Clotilde
39:45which is courteous and hospitable
39:46he offers him a drink
39:50the man is nervous
39:52and in that short space of time
39:54smoke two cigarettes
40:01he's nervous
40:02because he has to ask for something
40:04to the lady
40:04he has to ask her for money
40:05or something else
40:06that she doesn't want to give him
40:20to the man
40:21refusal doesn't go down well
40:21he doesn't accept it
40:22and feels it growing inside
40:24anger
40:24a dull anger
40:25that makes him want it
40:26to kill
40:28pretends to leave
40:29but in the meantime
40:29he looked around
40:30he chose that heavy bottle
40:32that little gun
40:34deadly as a club
40:35he hides it with his body
40:36he turns around
40:37and hits the lady
40:47then he goes to the kitchen
40:48to take a knife
40:49the first one he finds
40:50and strikes again
40:51for that uncontrollable desire
40:53to erase the victim
40:54to be sure
40:56that she is dead
40:56which occurs often
40:58in the murders
40:58of impetus like this
40:59in the end
41:01go back to the kitchen
41:02he washes himself
41:03and it shoots
41:06can be
41:08or
41:09the killer
41:10it might not have been alone
41:19he went to that apartment
41:21together with someone else
41:22in the illusion
41:23that the lady is rich
41:25must be rich
41:26It also has a safe
41:27hidden behind a painting
41:28and who knows what's inside
41:31the lady reacts
41:32he doesn't want to tell him
41:33where is the safe?
41:34and kicks them out of the house
41:36but in the meantime
41:37one has already spotted
41:38that bottle
41:45After
41:45they are looking for the safe
41:47they move a painting
41:48and they also stain it with blood
41:50but they don't find anything
41:51At that time
41:51they grab the first thing
41:53that are found at hand
41:54that little bag
41:55and they run away
41:57can be
41:57or
41:59the killer
42:00it could be a woman
42:01a woman
42:02who wanted something
42:03from the lady
42:04and that had also arrived
42:05to threaten her
42:06for that thing
42:15the woman
42:16he goes to the lady
42:17for a quiet conversation
42:18to make peace
42:19to clarify things
42:20to make one last request
42:22but the lady
42:23refuse
42:26perhaps he refuses abruptly
42:28she is not used to drinking
42:30Mrs. Clotilde
42:31and that little glass
42:32Perhaps
42:32he made it become
42:33less kind than usual
42:34the woman
42:36he loses his head
42:37pretends to leave
42:38and then
42:39that bottle
42:40and that knife
42:40After
42:41grab that bag
42:42and takes her away
42:43to simulate a purto
42:44and mislead the investigations
42:47can be
42:48if we were in a detective novel
42:51in a novel by Renato Olivieri
42:52at this point
42:53his character
42:54Commissioner D'Ambrosio
42:55would tell us the name
42:56of the murderer
42:57instead we are in reality
42:58in the news
42:59and in the news
43:00however good the commissioners are
43:02sometimes the cases
43:03remain unresolved
43:04Doctor D'Amato
43:05what is left for her?
43:06of this crime?
43:09but look
43:09sincerely
43:10I have left
43:11what
43:12to the investigators
43:13it remains all the time
43:14that a murder
43:14it is not resolved
43:16in the sense
43:16that is not found
43:19the perpetrator of the crime
43:20I wouldn't say it makes sense
43:21of frustration
43:22Why
43:23we are professionals
43:24and when you have
43:25awareness
43:26and the conscience
43:27of having worked well
43:28with dedication
43:29with sacrifice
43:30there is no frustration
43:33Here you are
43:33there is
43:34there is
43:34remains
43:34but here it is
43:35an empty box
43:36Here you are
43:37in the soul
43:37in our soul
43:38in our head
43:39in our mind
43:40remains
43:40a box
43:42that we would like
43:42it was always
43:44filled
43:45Therefore
43:45essentially
43:46what remains
43:48Perhaps
43:48it would be just
43:49the desire
43:50to search again
43:51the author
43:52that one definitely remains
43:53an empty box
43:54where to put
43:55the name of the killer
43:56for us too
43:58that box
43:58it remains empty
43:59and we would like
43:59that it filled up
44:00Mrs. Clotilde
44:02Instead
44:03we prefer to imagine it
44:04in another way
44:05in his apartment
44:06of course
44:07of Porta Nuova
44:08in that apartment
44:09ancient
44:09full of memories
44:10of a time
44:12in his apartment
44:13to play
44:14his piano
44:42to play
44:45to play
44:45to play
45:13to play
45:14to play
45:15to play
45:45to play
45:56to play
45:58to play
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