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00:00Here we go, it's hour number two, Gbag Nation 105.3 The Fan, thanks for making us part of your
00:05day.
00:05You know Krusty's Corner's coming up at 3.40 with Brian Broaddus.
00:08Looking forward to that, getting his thoughts on day one, legal tampering period, Cowboys Monday.
00:15With you here in the Gbag Nation is Pete Doherty, Green Bay Press-Gazette,
00:19joins us now to talk more about this morning's trade.
00:22And good afternoon, Pete. How the heck are you?
00:25I'm doing well. How are you?
00:26I'm doing pretty good. You know, it's a fun day to watch the world of NFL news spin.
00:33And, of course, another Cowboys-Packers trade this morning.
00:36Why was Green Bay ready to move on from Rayshon Gary already?
00:41You know, mainly because I've got to look, but he's making, I think, $19.5 or $20 million this year.
00:49And, you know, he's been averaging that on his new contract.
00:52It averages like $21 or $22, the contract he signed a couple years ago.
00:56And, you know, he's a good player, but he's not nearly productive enough to be worth that kind of money.
01:03So I was a little surprised they were able to trade him.
01:07I thought they'd end up having to cut him because everybody in the league knew they were going to do
01:11that.
01:11The one thing that they had was he doesn't have a roster bonus.
01:15You know how they put those roster bonuses in early March or mid-March.
01:19So teams have to make the decision now, and he doesn't have that.
01:23So, you know, like last year, they were in the same position with Jair Alexander,
01:26and they sat on him until June before cutting him because they were trying to trade him.
01:31So that's the one leverage point they had.
01:33And they found a team that, you know, badly needed an outside guy.
01:37Pete, do you feel like that as a player, though, I mean, when you watched him play as that edge,
01:43Micah being the pass rusher, and this guy kind of being the guy that plays with power, sets the edge,
01:49good run defender, that kind of guy?
01:52Yeah, you know, he was not – he wasn't that – for how big he is, he's like 270.
01:56He wasn't that good a run defender early in his career.
01:59Yeah.
01:59And he'd bite or he'd chase.
02:01You know, he'd chase stuff down the line, and they could run boots around him and misdirection.
02:06He's gotten a lot better at that, and he does set a good edge.
02:09He's a really good power rusher.
02:11So if you've got to keep the quarterback in the pocket and you need everybody to bull rush,
02:16you know, he'll get some push that way.
02:18You know, he'll be pretty good that way.
02:20He just – just like in college, he's just not – something's missing for finishing the pass rush.
02:26His pressure numbers are pretty decent, but his sack numbers are not.
02:30I think he went – oh, I've got to look again.
02:32I think he went like the last nine or ten games without a sack until I think he might have
02:37had one in the playoff game.
02:39Yeah, you're absolutely right.
02:40He had all of his production within the first seven weeks of the season, and then there was no sack
02:46production at all.
02:47So, I mean, that's what we were wondering, Pete.
02:49Was it like injury-related?
02:50Was it as simple as Micah gets hurt and now all the attention's on him?
02:54Or was it just play declining?
02:56It was just play.
02:57I mean, you know, Parsons didn't get hurt until wipes and all that stuff, but he's just – you know,
03:05like the really good rushers who have that feel, that bend, that ability to get skinny, get low to the
03:11ground, whatever it takes.
03:13He doesn't really have that or the second moves, but he is a good power rusher, and he gets –
03:18he's a really streaky rusher.
03:21He got his sacks the whole time he was here.
03:24He would get his sacks in bunches, and then he'd go through these really bad droughts.
03:29So, if history holds true, which, I mean, this kind of seems to be who he is at this point,
03:33if history holds true, he'll be that way with the Cowboys, too.
03:37Pete Doherty, Green Bay Press-Gazette here with you on the fan.
03:40Do you know if other teams were willing to give up something to get him?
03:44Did the Cowboys get in a bidding war here and have to go to a higher pick than we thought
03:47would be reasonable?
03:48You know, I do not know that.
03:50You know, you trade a future pick, and I think the thinking is you move it.
03:54If it's a fourth-rounder next year, you kind of consider it the equivalent of a fifth-rounder this year.
04:01But I'm surprised – like I said, I'm surprised they got anything.
04:04They would have had to end up cutting him.
04:06The only thing is, you know, maybe the Cowboys were thinking, you know, we don't want to have to wait
04:11until June,
04:13and you bring him in now, it doesn't – your hands aren't quite as tied for the draft,
04:17and you can go – you know, you can be more best player on a lot of your picks
04:22than just absolutely having to do what you've got to do to get an outside guy.
04:26So maybe that was in their thinking.
04:28But I've got to admit, I was surprised the Packers got anything for him.
04:31Is he a good locker room guy?
04:33I mean, I noticed he, of course, was a captain during his time with Green Bay.
04:36How do you think he would be from a leadership role?
04:39He's fine.
04:40You know, I think he wants to win.
04:42And all that stuff.
04:44You know, it was funny.
04:46I thought he was a really good effort guy for most of his career.
04:50But there were a couple times last year where he kind of got caught jogging, you know,
04:54like chasing a quarterback, and Parsons would just go flying by him from the other side of the field.
04:59And it was like, what's Gary doing there?
05:01He's just – he's not – he's really not digging in.
05:04But up until this year, the second half of this year, I thought he was a really good effort player.
05:09So, you know, maybe he needs a – maybe a change of scenery will put a little juice in him
05:15too.
05:15How's the durability factor with him?
05:18Really good.
05:19I've got to think, the only injury he's really had – he had a torn ACL, so he missed half
05:25of one season and half of the next.
05:26But besides that, he's almost always lined up there.
05:30He is a big, strong, rugged guy.
05:33Any other players the Packers want to move on from for the Cowboys?
05:37Seems like it's a road well-traveling to this point, Pete.
05:40I know.
05:41What do we have here?
05:42We've got Parsons and a four for two ones and Kenny Clark.
05:50Kenny Clark, yeah.
05:51And now this guy.
05:53So, yeah.
05:54Elton Jenkins, I mean, he's there for the take, and he's also an old guy who's going to get $20
05:59million this year.
05:59I wouldn't touch him if I were anybody for that – not for that price.
06:02That's just too much money for a guy who's been really banged up.
06:05But, you know, if Jerry Jones is interested, I'm sure he's available.
06:09Pete, so really what this really came down to, not so much the ability but the money.
06:15And you talk about some of the production where they were like – you think they were mad at him
06:21because, you know,
06:22he wouldn't get in the sack numbers and he was going to make $18 million.
06:25Is that really what this came down to?
06:27Yeah.
06:28I mean, this is not a bad player.
06:31This is a guy that doesn't have the sack numbers but was making a high ticket.
06:37And the fans and the front office got mad at him for that.
06:41Yeah.
06:41Basically, you said in about three words what I babbled on about there for a while.
06:46It's money, not production.
06:48If he were an $10 million a year guy, they'd be really happy to have him.
06:54But for $20 million, that's just too much.
06:58You know, you need better.
06:59And it's – better's not coming at this point.
07:02You know, it's – he's, I think, $28 million and, you know, this has been the pattern for several years.
07:08So, you know, he is what he is, which is a good – he's a solid player, a good player,
07:11but just too expensive for the production.
07:15Packers didn't want to restructure or did he not want to restructure or was it just time for there to
07:20be a parting?
07:21Because that's the talk.
07:21The Cowboys want to restructure or maybe even negotiate a pay cut for the guy considering he has no guarantees
07:28left on the deal.
07:29Yeah, you know, I mean, the Cowboys gave up picks, so I don't know how much leverage they think they
07:34have there.
07:35I'm guessing the Packers, you know, at least approached him about a pay cut.
07:38If I were him, I would have said no.
07:40I would have said, hey, you know, go ahead and cut me.
07:42I'll take my chances.
07:43I can see, like, the Cowboys doing a contract extension where they give him a pretty good chunk of guaranteed
07:49money,
07:49but his average per year goes down.
07:51You know, so, like, maybe they give him the next two – next couple years at an average of, you
07:56know, 15 mil,
07:56but they guarantee him, you know, 25, something like that.
08:01So he might be open to something like that.
08:03There's a lot of Cowboy fans that are wanting them to pursue your free agent linebacker,
08:08the Packers free agent linebacker, Quay Walker.
08:10Is he somebody that you think should be generating a ton of interest or the Packers trying to bring him
08:14back?
08:15What's your scouting report?
08:16What can you tell us about Quay?
08:18Yeah, he's a really – he's a tough guy to figure out because he's got pretty good size and length,
08:23and he's 240, and he can really run, and he's great at chasing plays down in the flat
08:29and in coverage and plays in front of him.
08:32He closes fast, and those checkdowns go for nothing.
08:36But he kind of gets lost with guys behind him, you know, on those crossing routes.
08:40You know, we saw that against the Bears in the playoffs.
08:44And he's not – you know, if he gets downhill right off the snap, he'll make plays at the line
08:48or behind, but he's not a real physical guy for the size he has.
08:53So it's like he's – at times he looks like he's just, man, this guy is really good.
08:57And at other times it's like, man, something's missing here.
08:59And I was talking with a scout about that, and that's what he saw too.
09:04You know, he's probably going to get, I don't know, 13 to 15 mil a year.
09:09That was too rich for the Packers, and if I were them, that would have been too rich for me
09:12too.
09:13Sure looked like Micah Parsons missed his Cowboys teammates at that Pro Bowl a good amount, didn't it?
09:19Yeah, it does.
09:21You know, I don't – you know, I was surprised at how hard he played.
09:26Like, he played really hard here the whole time.
09:29Like, every snap he was out there, he was going hard.
09:31I don't know if he was like that in Dallas or if that was because it's a new place
09:35and he was just, you know, really showing everybody, you know,
09:38that they gave up so much for him and gave him that contract.
09:41So I don't know if this will continue, but that's the one thing I was stunned by.
09:44I figured he'd be a guy who occasionally took plays off,
09:48and at least, you know, until he got hurt last year, he really gave it.
09:51I don't know if you guys think that will continue or not,
09:54but that's jumped out to me as much as anything was, you know,
09:58at least last year he really gave it his all.
10:00When the Cowboys traded him, they said a lot of things,
10:04but one of them was four or five players are better than one, essentially.
10:09And here as you look at this and Kenny Clark is gone,
10:12Rashawn Gary is gone, Quay Walker is gone.
10:14I mean, there's a legitimate tradeoff.
10:16Is there any buyer's remorse there, especially considering how things ended for Micah?
10:22I wouldn't think so.
10:23I wouldn't have any if I were the Packers with, you know, the big caveat that
10:29how much does the ACL take out of him, you know, in the next couple of years?
10:33If it's a little bit, then, you know, I'd be still really happy I did the deal.
10:37You know, if he declines fast, then obviously, you know, it turned out to be a disaster.
10:42But the impact he made, it was startling.
10:46You know, if you've been watching,
10:46anybody who's been watching the Packers every week for, you know, the last decade,
10:50it was startling to see a guy in the field who made that big an impact on defense.
10:55They haven't had, like, even Clay Matthews was a really good player.
10:58He did not make the impact this guy made.
11:00So it was kind of a shell shock for anybody who covers the Packers or washes the Packers
11:05just how big a difference one elite player can make.
11:10So I wouldn't think there's any buyer's remorse.
11:12I certainly wouldn't have any if I were the Packers.
11:14You just worry, you know, about what the ACL takes out of them.
11:17One thing I wanted to ask you about, Pete, while we have you,
11:20is the Cowboys passing game coordinator who was with Green Bay, Derek Ainsley.
11:26You got a new staff there defensively,
11:29but was he a guy that was highly thought of in Green Bay?
11:32Yeah, I think he was really, really highly respected.
11:35And he's had a lot of experience, both NFL and I think he was at Alabama
11:39and some other good places in college.
11:41I think that the Packers were willing to let him go
11:44because they got a new coordinator bringing in a new system.
11:47So if guys wanted to leave, even if they liked him,
11:50they let guys leave because, you know,
11:52Gannon could then bring in people who would know his system
11:55or people he had connections with.
11:57But I think Ainsley was probably considered one of the, you know,
12:02underneath the coordinator, one of their two or three best assistants
12:04on the defensive side of the ball.
12:06Terrific report, Pete.
12:08Thank you so much for your insights.
12:10Enjoy your offseason, and we'll catch up with you soon.
12:13All right, sounds good.
12:14Great talking with you guys.
12:15See you, buddy.
12:15Pete Doherty, Green Bay Press-Gazette here with you
12:18on your Home of the Cowboys 105.3 The Fan.
12:21Summary of Pete's opinion, says the 469.
12:23He ain't bleep, and we're laughing at the Cowboys.
12:27I think, you know, that's one takeaway you could have,
12:29and it certainly summarizes, you know,
12:32the consensus from Green Bay is that a lot of people thought
12:35that he wasn't worth it anymore.
12:37I think if the Cowboys let him sit at this $18, $19 million cap hit
12:42and don't restructure that and have all that count against your team,
12:46then that would be a massive disappointment.
12:48But I think the Cowboys, what they're showing you here
12:51is they're willing to overpay a little bit.
12:53They're willing to overdo it a little bit,
12:54whether that's giving up a fourth-round pick for a guy that's about to be released
12:58or giving $20 million to a pass rusher that might be over the hill
13:02and doesn't have many moves other than power and setting the edge.
13:05And Pete told us he wasn't that great at setting the edge last year.
13:07So why would they be willing to do that?
13:09Because they're going to stop at nothing.
13:11And you would like everything to fall into place for you as a team builder.
13:15Hey, we're on the clock here in the draft.
13:18There's the chime, and the perfect defensive player here is for us,
13:21and here they are in free agency, and they don't want more than market value.
13:25Wow, things are working great for you.
13:26But if you can't snap your fingers and manifest those things,
13:31then you've got to be willing to overpay.
13:33And the Cowboys are doing it.
13:34The Cowboys are drawing a line in the sand and saying we're going to be much better in 2026.
13:38If we've got to overpay a little bit to do it, that's fine.
13:40Well, they're doing it.
13:41Go ahead.
13:42With the safety, they've got $12 million a year, $3 or $36 million for Jalen Thompson
13:48of the Arizona Cardinals.
13:49Jane Slater was on that, Ian Arapaport.
13:52Brian, you were talking earlier.
13:53They were in talks with him.
13:55Yeah, that was – this morning when I got up, I was thinking –
13:58somebody asked me, well, how do you think this is going to play out today?
14:02Didn't have the Gary thing.
14:04But I knew that they were going to try and get Thompson done first.
14:08Wow.
14:08And so they're like, well – I put them in order and they're like,
14:11well, why does it have to be in that order?
14:13Like, the fans are getting mad at you for like – I'm telling you what they're doing,
14:17but you're getting mad at me because, well, why does it have to be the safety first?
14:21And I'm like, well, that's who I think they're going to sign first.
14:26And glad to see that they got Jalen Thompson done.
14:28This is a signing – if you hate the Gary trade and all that, this is a signing at safety
14:34you should be really excited about.
14:36I love it.
14:36It's a lot of things that they need.
14:37And Boye Mafe, as we've been talking about him.
14:39Cincinnati.
14:40He's off the board.
14:41He's getting 30 million a year.
14:42Three years, 60 million.
14:43Oh, wow.
14:44Congrats to him.
14:44Nice, nice contract for Boye Mafe.
14:46So a lot coming – and then Elton Jenkins, who we were just talking with Pete about,
14:50just got released from Green Bay.
14:52So a lot of moving parts for the Cowboys.
14:54Three years, 36 million.
14:56They get their safety.
14:57And Jalen Thompson.
14:58And I think we've got O.A. now, another edge rusher off the board.
15:02He's going to go to the Commanders.
15:03Four years, $100 million.
15:05So there's some of the top edge rushers, not named Trey Hendrickson, that are now inking deals.
15:10This is really good.
15:12If you were listening to us last week when we were in Surprise, Brian Broaddus did a film breakdown of
15:18Jalen Thompson.
15:18I'm sure he's going to give us more of that gold.
15:20I will.
15:21Throughout the show, he is 27 and a half years old.
15:25He's just coming off a three-year, $36 million contract.
15:30But here's what a recent report said about him.
15:34In the era of the nickel, having a guy like Thompson who can play all over the field.
15:37He played 249 in the slot, you know, and the rest of them, it's strong safety and free safety.
15:45Thompson has also played 770-plus defensive snaps in five consecutive seasons.
15:50You can count on him to be out there.
15:51Despite the extra coverage reps, he is plus 50th percentile in yards allowed per coverage snap each of the past
15:58two seasons.
15:59So, a lot of good stuff here on the metrics and analytics of him, Brian.
16:03But from your film study, you know, you kind of supported that idea of this is a guy who's very
16:08versatile and can make it happen in a lot of different linemen.
16:10He does.
16:10Listen, and Dallas needs somebody that can play the back end, that can play with some range and can actually
16:16cover and actually see the field and actually go up and tackle somebody and not just throw your shoulder in
16:21there and hope for the best.
16:23This guy is a legitimate weapon back there.
16:26Like I say, you can play him at single high.
16:28You can play him off the hash.
16:29He's going to help.
16:30You can play him as a robber in the middle.
16:33You can play him in the slot.
16:34You know, there's a lot of different ways you could use this guy, and he's a really effective player in
16:40that way.
16:40You see him communicate.
16:42You don't see him out of position.
16:45You know, Dallas clearly targeted something that they needed.
16:48And we were talking about this up until the draft.
16:51I mean, as we're going, how many times have we talked about these safeties?
16:55It wouldn't keep me from drafting another one, by the way.
16:58No, not at all.
16:59I'll take two of these guys.
17:01But right here, for the money, for the amount of money they spent on this guy, this is really, really
17:06a good get.
17:07What do you want to do with Malik Hooker?
17:09Now, they restructured with him this morning.
17:10Sounds like he's in the mix.
17:11I'd like to fire him into the sun.
17:14And I've tried the last three years.
17:17They like him.
17:18They think he's a high IQ player.
17:18They like him, and they do.
17:19And I can't, you know, listen, hey, I apologize.
17:22That's a harsh way of saying things.
17:24But they needed to get better at safety.
17:27And so, Malik Hooker, take a seat over here and be inactive every week.
17:33Because this guy right here is your new free safety.
17:36Your best safety is what this guy is.
17:37And I think Malik Hooker is more of a strong safety at this point in his career anyway.
17:41All of his plays now are coming downhill in tackling.
17:43He does not make plays in coverage.
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