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00:01the doors to the den are open for business a place where fortunes are made and futures are forged
00:11but this time the game has changed a fresh wave of fierce investors are out to shake things up
00:19and steal the deals joining the dragons tonight i'm susie ma and i'm the founder and ceo of
00:27tropic skincare good to have you back susie oh thank you so much i'm so happy to be back again
00:32my business has been one of the top 100 fastest growing businesses in the uk that's what i'm
00:39looking for when i look into the eyes of the entrepreneurs i want to see real passion i
00:44really like you i'm looking for that entrepreneur with that seed of an idea that i know i can
00:49invest in support to make it something amazing i'm getting emotional here i am buzzing with
00:55excitement and i'm ready to make investments
01:08my name is dr katherine fernanzo and i'm a gp my business is called iassi
01:17don't tell me it's a backpack well it's got a stethoscope there i've no idea why i'm engaging
01:24in this i hate this game
01:29i'm feeling quite nervous i've been a doctor for 24 years but i've only been a businesswoman
01:35for two so i'm anxious about the examination that the dragons are going to give me
01:41but i hope they'll want to invest in me
01:54hello dragons my name is dr katherine fernanzo and i'm a gp i'm here to ask you for 50 000
02:02pounds
02:02in return for a 20 share in my company iassi iassi is a japanese word that means to heal and
02:10that is
02:10what millions of doctors around the world do every day but did you know that the traditional gladstone
02:17doctors bag was designed in the 1800s at a time when the vast majority of doctors were men
02:24thankfully times have changed and nowadays over 50 of doctors in the uk are female unfortunately the
02:33bags have not these boring bags are outdated masculine and sometimes they don't even have
02:40enough pockets to hold our medical equipment iassi makes high-end luxury doctors bags designed for
02:52women in healthcare they contain multiple pockets to carry and organize our medical equipment and we
03:00have six different designs and each is named after a pioneering female doctor iassi has been trading for
03:07two years we have sold nearly 300 bags and we have had a turnover since launch combined of eighty
03:15thousand pounds before i welcome your questions i'd like to give you all a bag so that you can inspect
03:20them
03:23a stylish range of bags tailored to the taste of female gps and other healthcare professionals is the
03:30offering from dr catherine fernando this one's for you peter thank you very much okay dr jones
03:38this one's for you dr boutlett thank you so much thank you she's asking for 50 000 pounds in return
03:45for
03:45a 20 percent share of her company so i've chosen the red one for you good choice thank you very
03:52much
03:53like that the bags are proving popular i like yours this is cool and already wanting to make
03:59a trade do i swap stephen bartlett is first with a question
04:08dr catherine hello what type of doctor are you i'm a gp a gp okay um is this your first
04:15business
04:15it is yes i think the um the elephant in the room is just about the size of the market
04:20because
04:20yes i don't know how many doctors there are and how many people that would be relevant to use this
04:25kind of bag okay so um the doctors that are relevant for this kind of bag are general practitioners
04:31and in the uk there are 54 000 gps and over half of doctors in the uk are female now
04:38and about 60
04:39percent of them go into general practice okay so how so how how many customers do you think you have
04:46that could buy this product in the uk total in the uk total i think i would have 28 000
04:53customers
04:53that could buy a bag it's not a huge market is it it is quite a niche market the market
04:59is expanded when
05:00you include advanced nurse practitioners and you mentioned um the word luxury in your pitch yes
05:06how much does this cost so retail price of that bag is 300 pounds 300 pounds wow wow wow
05:15has it got goochie on the side or it does have a lot of detailing it has details on all
05:21of the
05:21metalwork the zips it has feet on the bottom of the bag i think if you were a doctor you'd
05:27have
05:28something like that wouldn't you i can see you with this i mean it's gorgeous and you thank you
05:33it feels really high quality so what do you think i think they're lovely i think i mean and when
05:39you look
05:39inside i think the design is lovely i mean there's a lot of work it goes into there there is
05:44a lot of
05:45i mean it's a high price point it is but when you look at the bag i can understand how
05:51the cost how
05:51much they're costing you to make this one for example that one for example would cost 73 pounds to make
05:57so that cost 73 yeah what does that sell for 275 275 yeah and are you selling the direct to
06:05consumer
06:05i am i have had some interest from a retailer and they've bought 58 bags from me and they ordered
06:12a few more um like two weeks ago and how how many is a few more oh only three more
06:18they sold out
06:19okay so they're selling a bit yeah they're not absolutely flying off the shelves i've got to say
06:24catherine that the the product is great quality i mean i i mean i had one but it's been taken
06:30by
06:30dr bartlett no but i think the quality of it is fantastic thank you so at the start of the
06:37business i wanted to make sure that i established my brand um being a very high quality uh product
06:43and hopefully in the future um if we are able to continue with another brand then we can seek
06:51factories to get the bags at a lower cost you said to peter something there which was quite curious
06:56you said if we're able to continue yes what do you mean by continue do you mean the business
07:00continue no no i just i just mean when we go into a second a second round of production then
07:06it would
07:07be great to be able to source the bags at a at a lower cost at this point um we
07:15have a lot of stock
07:16i i bought 1900 bags because i went for the style and the colors yes so i have um 1550
07:27bags left
07:29so if we're able to sell them which hopefully we will be then we can make 465 000 pounds from
07:37that in
07:38which case we will definitely be able to continue and look for new markets how much have you invested in
07:44this business so far i've actually invested over 400 000 pounds of my own money into it for 400 000
07:52pounds yes where did you get the 400 000 pounds from my uncle died in covid okay sorry to hear
08:00okay
08:01you've produced a beautiful stunning product off the back of that so it's not it's not an investment
08:06wasted in that regard um it is tough it is tough because i've been in this space before and i
08:13spent a lot
08:13time working in the marketing side of this space but also we had a business come into the den a
08:18couple of years ago um who was selling these designer bags made here in manchester right um tough yeah
08:24tough from from all sides um
08:33a little bit too tough for me that's fine so i understand i'm gonna say that i'm out but thank
08:37you so much and i'm gonna pay for that bag thank you stephen thank you dr catherine i actually worry
08:46that you're so focused on the gps that you're missing a massive market okay because i wouldn't
08:56if you look at the inside of this it just does what i want it to do great it doesn't
09:00just do what
09:01the doctor you want it to do you know it's a lovely looking bag it's got somewhere for my laptop
09:05i can put
09:06all of my toiletries in there and i can put oh it's look it's really nice now that doesn't stop
09:13the whole market being very difficult as steven's alluded to you know but you do need to find a wider
09:19market okay and i suspect that if you can just find those platforms you will sell enough of the
09:27goods to do the thing that i actually do think worries you because i think when it came out to
09:32steven
09:32and saying if we can continue there is something in the back of your head that's worrying you that
09:38if i don't sell these it isn't i can't i can't keep putting more money in that's you know you
09:43four
09:44hundred thousand pound that is a lot of money i know i know um but i absolutely love what you're
09:49doing but i won't be investing okay deborah thank you
09:54catherine you know what i think if you came here today with a wider story of how this bag is
10:02a
10:02multifunctional bag for the everyday working woman i think you'd have very different responses from the
10:09dragons and i think there's a lot of work you would need to put into this to just shift the
10:16stock
10:18and i'm not passionate about it enough to kind of drive this with you so i'm so sorry catherine for
10:24that reason i'm out you are very brave 400 000 pound investment in this business you are a real
10:37entrepreneur and brave having looked at this and saying and heard what you said
10:46your pitch limits the amount of turnover you can actually do with 28 000 potential customers
10:54for that reason i don't see that's an investment for me in the short term so i'm out thank you
10:59and and catherine i think you've clearly got a problem you can't sell the volume can you yes
11:04right so to be able to sell the volume you'd be better off to do something with a specific retailer
11:09that sells luggage and provide that product on a consignment basis to them okay and allow them
11:15to do what they do best which is target their customers and sell your product and take a
11:18percentage rather than anything else yeah there's you there's your route okay look i i i think it is
11:24really tough i really hope that you can actually get out of the stock by partnering with somebody
11:30thank you um but it's not an investment for me i'm going to say that i'm out thank you thank
11:36you
11:36thank you so much thank you thank you thank you so much bye-bye catherine hoped her doctor's bag
11:43would be just what the dragons ordered but its niche appeal didn't get their pulses racing
11:51and she leaves the den without a deal although the dragons didn't invest they absolutely loved the
11:58signs and the quality of the bags but it's just too small a market for them it's crazy how one
12:03sentence if we are able to continue yeah tells the complete story of where she's at in her head
12:09she's lacking the confidence isn't she yeah i'm having it anyway can i have that bag no you can't have
12:14it you're not going to mind no you're not having that i'm still very passionate about my company
12:21and this is definitely not the age of ayasi i'm ben mcguerr i'm the owner of compo and we are
12:41on a
12:41mission to redefine food waste by allowing people to conveniently dispose of their food waste in one
12:47touch composter must be a compost must be a compost what a load of rubbish you're on fire with your
12:54puns peter oh the fresh take you have on peter's pants i think you're great susie
13:04the dragons all have strengths that directly align with compo i think deborah though is the standout for
13:10her history of sustainable and eco projects hello dragons my name is ben and today i'm here to ask for
13:3086 000 pound in exchange for 20 of my company combo i'm sure that you all dispose of your food
13:37waste in
13:38a variety of different ways some of you will take the time to compost your food waste some of you
13:44let the council deal with the disposal part of it however some of you may simply throw your food waste
13:49into the black bin and simply forget about it when food is left to rot in landfill conditions
13:55a harmful byproduct called methane is produced methane is a powerful greenhouse gas which is 28
14:02eight times more potent than co2 but we can take steps to reduce its impact on the environment combo
14:10is a sleek alternative to food disposal you simply place your food waste in this unit
14:21press one button and in five to eight hours you are left with a dried reduced volume biodegradable mix
14:29which is kinder to the planet for some numbers to date we have received over 103 000 euro in pre
14:39-orders
14:40and that is with a gross profit of 64 500 euro and a slight net loss of six and a
14:46half thousand euro
14:48now with your investment we are planning to heavily invest in our stock and our marketing expansion and
14:55with this we predict that we'll be profitable by q4 i'd love to show you around and any questions you
15:01might have as well can we come up and see yes come on up a machine to break down food
15:09waste quickly and
15:10efficiently in the home i'd like to smell it yeah of course is the offering from ben mcguerr so is
15:17this a
15:17prototype so this is a finalized unit and we ran it today and this is it's actually still quite warm
15:23from
15:24today so um so this is working this is yes this this is what came out of this one today
15:28the eco-conscious
15:30entrepreneur is asking for 86 000 pounds in return for a 20 stake in the business that's nice that
15:38looks like the stuff you put out of a plug the dragons seem to be enjoying getting their hands dirty
15:43it's squishy but with a passion for all things green deborah meaden wants to dig deeper
15:53ben thank you um so we actually we compost virtually either it goes to our animals or we compost
16:00everything there is nothing in our house that doesn't get composted and there's lovely juices that
16:05come off and they're actually they are lovely if you're a gardener because they're you know you can
16:10you can do something with them so what i was going to say how dry but i'm going to ask
16:14a slightly different
16:15question yeah what can i use that for so it is a biodegradable mix simply mix it in with compost
16:21if
16:21you have it um so you're probably thinking well if i don't have compost what am i meant to do
16:25with it
16:25um so you can mix it with anything you have like potting soil so if i wanted to essentially let's
16:31say
16:31repot this plant into a a larger pot rather than having to use additional soil i could mix this in
16:38and essentially the nutrients would what if i don't want to do any of that so i'm doing it because
16:42i've got a massive pile of peelings over here yeah and this reduces the waste and the smell yes um
16:49now hear me out this may sound very counterproductive you can bin it um and i know that might that
16:55sounds
16:56really counterproductive it does and i will tell you why it's not um so if it was a scenario where
17:01you
17:01had to put it into a black bin to send to landfill um a lot of essentially when food waste
17:07fresh food
17:07waste has around 70 to 90 moisture content that is really where the um the methane producing bacteria
17:16likes to feed on um so essentially you're lowering the reactivity of that material in a landfill to
17:23produce methane and you're also greatly reducing its volume ben um did you develop this machine
17:29so when i moved in with my girlfriend into a apartment um we had a food bin which was less
17:37than pleasant so i actually went looking for a solution um there was any amounts of fancy bins
17:43and different things that we've seen so there is product similar however their price point was a
17:48little bit less than desirable so i went to a manufacturer and see if we could develop something
17:52at a much lower price point um which had uh basically all the convenient features of the
17:58ones that i seen on the market that day so how much is your is your product so it retails
18:03for 249 pound
18:05where is it made in china so this is an existing product that you've taken the branding of or have
18:13you changed anything about what the manufacturer has already made so the initial prototype the manufacturer
18:20sent me was single had a single filter in it uh we worked i worked with them to get an
18:25upgraded version
18:26essentially um but the actual development of the product is done by by the supplier yeah so anyone
18:33could go and buy this product yeah so we have been working with them to get exclusivity
18:41and uh they said that they will open those conversations at around the 4 000 unit a month mark
18:47which we are not there at the moment ben um this is a this is a very immediately it sort
18:55of alarm
18:55bells i think the fact that you don't own any of this that's really really worrying because for this
19:02to become truly valuable you need to own the ip ultimately something similar or a pattern you need
19:08to have something of value so is there anything you can give me that gives you the confidence to be
19:13able to do a deal rather than become a distributor of a product yeah because that's ultimately what
19:19you are today yeah so i think in terms of the the branding and marketing is where we want to
19:24try and
19:25retain some of that um market uniqueness uh i've got trademarks launched in the uk and ireland i know
19:32that's not a product ip that you're that you're looking for but it is some protection that we have
19:37around the brand as a whole um yeah what's the brand combo yeah yeah so i mean that could be
19:43a
19:43football yeah even if you did have ip people will still find a way to copy so i don't think
19:48having
19:49ip in this day and age is that much of a big deal yeah because there's always ways around it
19:54yeah i think
19:55like i i do obviously the ip is something that was a you know in my head today to to
20:00counteract um i think
20:02like it's important and i understand but um no it's a big it's a it's it's it's fundamental yeah
20:07especially for acquisitions if you if you want to build a business a proper business yeah you need
20:12the ip yeah if you just want to be a salesman then you don't need ip i don't think it's
20:20the be
20:20or be all or there are some businesses yeah that actually don't need ip and people come in here with
20:27ip and i say that's lovely but that really isn't worth anything because there's a thousand ways of
20:33achieving that exactly so i think i think it's not the be all and end all but i'm i'm gonna
20:38tell you
20:38where i am 249 pounds yeah would i buy one why would i buy one well the trouble is it
20:50doesn't do the whole job when you said to me i might have to take because i've got nothing else
20:57to do with it i've got to take that and i've got to put that in landfill that might be
21:01better but i
21:02want to know that i'm doing the right thing i don't want to know that i'm doing 80 70 or
21:0780 billion to
21:08the right thing i want to know if i'm going to spend 249 pounds it solves that particular problem
21:14um so it's just you know i'm looking for slam dunk and you didn't give it to me so i'm
21:19really sorry
21:20won't be investing i'm out okay thanks ben um without being too predictable this is a tough sell
21:31for this to be truly successful and big i still think you're gonna have to own the ip
21:36you're a brilliant salesman but that doesn't necessarily make a business that is investable
21:41so i'm gonna say that i'm out but well done and good luck
22:05so i'm gonna say that i'm out but i wish you the very best ben thanks
22:13okay then i'm gonna tell you what i said you have not convinced me that this business is
22:21investable you are but not this business so i'm not going to give you my 86 000 pounds today
22:31however if ever you find yourself in london you're looking for a job you've got one
22:36okay i'll keep that in mind so i'm not going to invest today i'm out
22:44then i think you're a great entrepreneur i love that you're thinking about something that
22:49for me is a really attractive product so i would actually buy this because currently i have a
22:54compost bin that sits on my kitchen countertop that is gathering fruit flies every time i open it
22:59there are fruit fruit like literally fruit flies coming out of it in my face yeah um and then i
23:04put
23:04the bin out and then the foxes get to it yeah so absolutely i would be buying one of these
23:09and i
23:10don't believe that you have to have an ip in order for you to be successful what is your vision
23:15for the
23:16long term like where do you see this going uh in i suppose the the real answer is in every
23:25home that
23:25someone has for their food waste uh ideally the vision is to eradicate food waste from landfills um
23:31and to give everyone the opportunity to to sustainably dispose of their food waste um that is the vision
23:37and i do want this to be in in every home as standard i love that ben i love that
23:43your vision for the future
23:44wasn't i want to sell x amount in x countries it was about eradicating food waste and landfills and that's
23:52that speaks to the heart and that's that's really amazing um ben i am going to make you an offer
24:00because i feel like i could come with you to china and negotiate better prices i think we can tweak
24:07some parts of the machinery and we can make this have a competitive edge against all the other
24:14brands out there and also undercut them and i could help you promote this
24:23um but i would like a higher equity so you asked for 86 000 pounds for 20 so i will
24:30offer you all of
24:31the money i would like 40 percent equity have a think about it um so so i i think that
24:48a lot of what
24:49you have to offer is definitely something that i'm missing um i would love though to meet somewhere
24:58closer to the middle um and could you meet me at 32 i respect you coming back with an alternative
25:0835
25:20success for ben let's get the whole nation composting at home yes well done ben well done
25:28he's won the backing of a dragon with the potential to help his food waste contraption
25:35rise to the top of the heap wow yeah obviously delighted to have suzy on board so i think that
25:42uh she'll bring a lot to the business that i'm not able to i thought he was amazing genuinely i
25:47really
25:48really liked him and i think regardless of what happens i want to be in business with that guy yeah
25:52that one that one definitely isn't rubbish don't encourage him the investment really does validate
26:00that there may be something there that suzy sees in me not just in the business i'm going to go
26:05get
26:05some food and celebrate with a pint and i'm excited for the future my name's helen and this is my
26:25husband phil and we're from witness in cheshire phil and helen from witness
26:33it's a challenge working with wife and being with your wife 24 hours a day um but we've made it
26:39work
26:40over time oh good luck he asks for his lunch every day still i don't ask for my lunch
26:52stomach just churn then it is very nerve-wracking
26:59but we've practiced and we really want this so bring it on
27:16hi dragons i'm phil lord and i'm helen lord we are the founders of rehome the kitchen bedroom
27:23bathroom outlet and we are seeking a hundred thousand pound for five percent equity in our
27:28business we wanted to bring to you a new way to buy a kitchen one that literally doesn't cost the
27:35earth
27:37when we purchased our current home we needed a new kitchen and we really didn't have a large budget
27:43so we decided to see whether pre-loved could be a good option for us
27:48after what can only be described as a long and challenging journey to online marketplaces
27:53we paid five thousand pounds for a beautiful big kitchen that would have cost considerably more
28:00if it had been purchased new that's when we thought if more people knew this was possible
28:06and had more help to do it they too might consider it too so over the last 10 years we've
28:12developed
28:13our online supported marketplace for buying and selling pre-owned kitchens bedrooms and bathrooms
28:22rehome is b corp certified and we have saved to date 14 000 tons of carbon waste and we're now
28:30looking for the support of a dragon to help us make rehome the go-to verb that people use when
28:37renovating
28:37their home an online marketplace for secondhand kitchens bathrooms and bedrooms intended to be
28:46easy on both pockets and the planet is the proposition from phil and helen lord
28:53so we thought we'd show you some examples because pre-owned is a bit of a mystery when it comes
28:58to
28:59kitchens the couple are seeking one hundred thousand pounds so this kitchen sold at just over thirteen
29:06thousand in return for a five percent share in their business but we do estimate if that kitchen was
29:13purchased new today that would cost in excess of thirty five thousand pounds and this is the purchasers
29:21uh results so as you can see it's been completely reconfigured into a different space phil and helen
29:30might be capable of cooking up a dream kitchen for their customers but how will they handle a potential
29:36grilling in the den phil and helen um yes hi hi so at the moment forget it right you are
29:47a marketplace
29:48correct and you take a commission based on sales correct and you have no stock correct except except
29:54for appliances where we do own the the appliances as a dropship model yep so um what percent do you
30:01charge commission so our commission for pre-owned is uh thirty percent plus yeah okay so how long
30:10you've been doing this um we incorporated 10 years ago 10 10 years ago yeah but um i first brought
30:19the
30:19business to market two years before that wow so give us some numbers for the last three years okay our
30:28financials uh for 22 23 yep uh turnover was two million uh we had a gross profit of 1.2
30:36million yep and a net
30:38profit of 450 000. yep in 23 24 we had turnover of 1.3 million gross profit of 640 000
30:48and a net loss of 515
30:50net loss yes tuca a net loss of 515 000. in 24 25 turnover of 1.8 million yeah our
31:02gross profit was
31:031.2 million yeah and we were net break even and our forecast for this year is 2 and a
31:09half million
31:10turnover 1.6 million gross profit and net break even again right so somewhere you're spending money
31:21yeah where's the money going so in in 23 24 uh we completely changed uh brand and developed a new
31:31website and we went to market with that in 23 hence why we had the loss did you have some
31:37sort of
31:37consultant to help you do that we did we did we had uh we did what was going on what
31:43was wrong with
31:43the business in your eyes that made you pivot and spend nearly the best part of a million pounds
31:50so the original website it had plasters bolt-ons you know it was it was a monster right um and
31:59then the
31:59opportunity for e-commerce um really did come to the fore um for things like appliances smaller items
32:07that didn't require consultative sale didn't you consider something like shopify or something like
32:13that it it wasn't recommended to us amazing now you don't make as much money as a consultant if you
32:19recommend effective solutions it is it is a key learn um helen phil so i actually just want to pick
32:28up on some numbers because you're still spending one between 1.2 and 1.6 million so what are the
32:35answers in the next two years as why you're spending that much money um we're spending the money because
32:40we realize we still need to improve our customer experience and our technology how far are you down
32:47that journey because you've now spent nearly four we spent four million pounds on your website
32:53or or on developing this no we've only spent on the on the website probably around 800 000 including
32:59consultants which is still quite a lot oh right so there's 3.2 million that you are spending
33:06you you're spending every year 1.2 million to 1.6 to yeah our overhead so we've got uh wage
33:12costs
33:12uh marketing costs um you know costs for running the business okay so explain to me the rest of your
33:20overheads yeah so our marketing costs um uh per annum are approximately 400 000 and um so we've got wage
33:27costs of around um 200 to 300 000 okay well that's 700 000 that's that's that's less than half what
33:39we also
33:40have is um uh uh the cost for running the uh the website the the licensing fees etc there's about
33:47100 000 there oh my lord i feel what peter feels now i'll come and cry on your shoulder later
34:00100 000 monitoring fees who's charging you 100 000 000 so that's 100 000 uh for the year to do
34:09what that
34:09is an absolute fortune you've spent 800 000 on a website with ongoing inbuilt ongoing costs of
34:19100 000 pound a year these were experts that advised us to do that of course they were so we've
34:25got the
34:26website we've got a hundred thousand pound a year we're still less than half of the cost of the
34:31business so what else are we spending money on we've got consultancy fees as well oh my goodness who else
34:36are you paying so we've got a marketing consultant that is uh full-time how much um about 90 000
34:44just
34:45on the marketing we spend on advertising we spend you know obviously there's a lot of marketing costs
34:52at the end of the day associated with the business that's brilliant and and it's lovely to see you
34:58committing resource to marketing but my goodness do you know i feel like i feel like you are really good
35:04and you're paying other people to kind of knock you off course yeah and actually last year was when
35:12we realized that and we made some quite sweeping changes because it could have been a lot worse than it
35:22was phil and helen you've got a big issue here in my opinion um and i if you don't mind
35:30me saying in
35:30a nice way i think the big issue is you okay i've got a great business on the outset real
35:36excitement
35:36when i first heard it yeah what we've ensued over the last period of time of talking about this business
35:42we've made this business in my opinion completely non-investable it's almost impossible to invest in
35:49a business like this when you're running it so badly
35:55so for that reason sadly i'm out thank you peter phil helen um you've done a remarkable thing and
36:04you know the fact remains that you've managed to build a business that's turning over millions of
36:08pounds every single year so there's clearly some decisions that have been made correctly
36:14but um as an investor my my risk appetite isn't quite there for this business so i'm going to say
36:19that i'm out but i wish you the best thank you do you know i i can really understand where
36:27you
36:27struggle because i've been exactly there i have made so many mistakes in my business
36:33and in my opinion it's how you react to those things it's how you evolve it's how you learn from
36:40those things that's what's important um but unfortunately for me this is not an area that
36:46i'm passionate about and i don't think i'm the right dragon for you guys so for that reason i'm out
36:53thank you appreciate it look
36:58i think you've done a great job but you've got you've been going 10 years 10 years is a long
37:05time
37:05and i don't believe that after 10 years you've got room for an investor so for that reason i'm out
37:14okay thank you toka um i love so much about this and i i really like the both of you
37:26as well i do like
37:27your honesty and you've built something amazing here i'm not out yet by the way but i do want to
37:33hear
37:33something how are you going to make money because at the moment you're growing revenue yeah but what
37:44changes to turn this revenue growth into profit so i think when we did the transformation we um had an
37:54infrastructure cost that was a baseline now what we need to do is we need to accelerate our sales growth
38:00because we're only working at probably 50 efficiency in terms of our cost base so we can probably
38:06double our sales and and not have to increase our costs at the same rate and the proven experience
38:12expertise that you guys have i think you would provide that mentorship and guidance to make sure
38:17that you know we're following the right tracks oh this is this is difficult because i totally i do
38:24worry about your decision making processes and honestly if i got involved i can't run your business
38:32i can be there for the big moments but i can't help you on a day-to-day decision making
38:37process i
38:38appreciate that but we are making decisions lots of them every single day these few decisions that
38:47have been absolutely pivotal were technically two decisions out of multiple so big ones though agreed
38:56but you know not not to provide excuses we thought we had gone down the right route we genuinely did
39:04think that was the right thing to do and guys okay okay okay okay okay okay okay um i love
39:13this so
39:13much and i like you so much i'm going to make you an offer we haven't heard it yet hide
39:21your cards
39:21just put your hands behind your back um i i so i know how i can help you however you
39:30need more help than
39:31you think you need but i do believe that we can turn this into a profitable business and got ahead
39:36of
39:36the market you asked for a hundred thousand pound for five percent so i'm going to offer you all the
39:44money but i want 15 of the business okay thank you deborah
39:54we appreciate all your comments today and deborah thank you very much for the offer we're willing to
40:01accept oh excellent good good well done great great a perfect ending for phil and helen who've secured a
40:14hundred thousand pounds oh yeah i didn't expect that as well as the backing of a dragon with the
40:23business nows to help balance the books deborah day one you go through the p and l you strip out
40:29all
40:29the consultants and retainers and you've got 500k profit you pay your dividend you've got your money
40:35back i'm so happy you're married boy do they need you as you'll have seen there was some quite honest
40:42opinions and then deborah came right in at the end saving the day so i'm absolutely delighted that
40:49uh she's agreed to come on board and help us i'm gordon leatherdale and my business operates two
41:07fantastic consumer brands one is for dogs one is for humans oh my god it confuses everyone to be
41:14blunt about it including me sometimes dog bakery there's dog and then there's gin and then there's
41:24chai tea this is going to be ridiculous i just know it's going to be ridiculous a lot of things
41:33as i step out of the lift i'll be thinking about being in the jaws of jaws it's the terror
41:38of getting
41:38things wrong i think as much as anything else but we'll have to wait and see what the dragons think
41:53good evening dragons my name's gordon and i'm the founder of a business that operates two
41:57fantastic consumer brands and i'm here today seeking 100 000 pounds for 10 of the equity of
42:03the business what do we do well brand one if you like natural noble is all about exploring flavor
42:09many people as you'll probably know are accustomed to and very comfortable with
42:13creating their own food their own dishes from scratch and so on and so forth and we say
42:18why not extend that and apply that to making your own drinks and drink flavors at home
42:22that's where we step in with our fantastic range of make your own drink kits easy to use
42:28they range from sets of botanicals and ingredients you infuse in liquor
42:33we have a range of cocktail making kits and a range of if you like novel infusion bags to bring
42:38consumers flavors they wouldn't otherwise try and the products are suitable for those who drink alcohol
42:44and those who don't the second brand is called dog by the hob it's a fantastic range of dog
42:50cookie making kits and accounts for about 11 of our sales drugs that ends my pitch i'm not looking
42:58forward to your questions but i'm here now um that's it would you like to try some products we created
43:04earlier good you can smile now thank you very much that's terrifying but uh thank you you did great
43:11you did great we'd love to try your product all right thank you very much
43:15a selection of products for flavoring drinks
43:19and a kit for making canine friendly cookies comprise the eclectic offering from gordon leatherdale
43:28so there's an espresso martini on your left it's an alcohol one that is alcohol yes it's a cocoa
43:33vanilla chai gordon is seeking 100 000 pounds if you look onto your chair you'll see a range of
43:40products you can try try the dog cookies if you want but you may choose not to in exchange for
43:47a 10
43:47share in his business what can i do with this they're the more involved kits steven and you use those
43:53basically to to infuse uh larger quantities of cheap gin or vodka basically their curiosity may
44:00have been peaked that's nice so this is a tea bag yeah that's right so it's pudding flavor tea right
44:06um
44:06so all the all the character and flavor of cake with no calories but will the dragon's cash prove as
44:14easy to raise as their initial interest gordon hi um i love all these different novel products um
44:26really fun really giftable help help us understand the connection between flavoring your gin flavoring
44:33your tea but then dog cookie kit yeah i i this is a question i knew that somebody was going
44:38to ask it if
44:39not everyone to explain the the way the business works we had a big i hate to use word boom
44:44but
44:44during code of course online sales were very strong and i was sat there terrified we just moved into
44:49new premises and so on and so forth and i thought well what the hell do we do when you
44:54know internet
44:55sales drop off i suppose i got paranoid and slightly frightened that we the business was going to take
44:59be taken out taken from under our feet as it were so as a group of people we just had
45:04a chat and thought
45:05we all own dogs and we all thought well we'll come up with this idea and just see what happens
45:10so it's really a question of i suppose you could call desperation more than anything else
45:15so so you started this brand the dog biscuit brand because you thought this was going to fail
45:21and has it failed no i thought this well i thought there was the possibility of failure or failure or
45:28a
45:28massive reduction in turnover and you'll see from our figures uh later i'm sure one of you will ask
45:32that we saw a big deterioration tell us your figures sure fine in 2019 we turned over 150 000 pounds
45:40in 2020 we turned over 560 000 pounds in 2021 we turned over 580 000 and in 2022 our turnover
45:52dropped to 387 000
45:56in 2023 it was 535 000 turnover and last year we turned the turnover exactly 617 000 pounds and the
46:05net
46:06somewhere north of 50 000 pounds okay so looking at these numbers it tells me that it looks like 2020
46:12the covert year was the big boost to your business but i can also see that you went down a
46:18bit in 2022
46:18when lockdown was over but you bounced back up again yes is that when the dog biscuits were launched
46:23yeah i mean that it was at the same time but the dog kits only so for instance last year
46:28we did 68 000
46:29pounds of the dockets with about 11 of the turnover so it's still a very small part of the bit
46:33of the
46:34business i don't know if i'm answering your question properly mr marion sorry i'm just trying to
46:38understand i'm still trying to understand why dog biscuits because your your business is doing all right
46:43you're i i can i i can't disagree with that at all to be honest mrs marg yeah we see
46:48demand
46:48me by the way yeah sorry susie i do apologize it's a it's something i think about pretty much every
46:54day
46:54i want to keep it because i enjoy it but our focus i think has to be on the the
47:00natural noble side of
47:02things and one of the marketplaces we were selling you're enjoying this you don't you don't have a
47:06cigar on it but i'm quite i can get your rollie if you want one i'm sure we can um
47:12where's your
47:13accent from because you say these terms somewhat and so forth they're so that's not accent what is
47:19it it's just it's very that's just his vocabulary where did you go to school i went to a place
47:25called
47:25kings in in taunton in somerset right yeah give me six i know kings very well i do right oh
47:33yes
47:33it's a great place great for rugby i was born in taunton oh were you yes i was born so
47:37you must
47:37have played against wellington oh that's right yeah how old are you um do i really have to ask
47:43yes you do i'm uh i'm 48 i've just turned i only asked because my husband was at wellington
47:48school i'm checking whether or not he played rugby would he would i have played against him uh he's
47:52fifth no he's 50s 58 isn't he oh deborah i think i think your husband is 58 isn't he
48:00deborah i don't know how old he is i don't think no one knows 60 okay yes he is 60
48:07he was 60 last
48:08year okay yeah well we always used to come away from wellington normally with a couple of black eyes
48:12and so they were ferocious they were they were hard so-and-sos they were good though they're very
48:17good yeah yeah i know anyway sorry um i don't know who i interrupted there but is anybody else
48:24mid-flow or shall i carry on um i'm half pissed so what do you want for this business where's
48:32where's
48:33the growth is it more of the same or do you see that you've got a sort of hero product
48:39here and
48:40you're going to build on to it goodness that's a that's that's a great sorry that's a fantastic
48:47question um i think more of the same because i think there's still great opportunity to grow our
48:56brand in new channels and i think particularly with our if you like larger sets because i think
49:01they look they're much more of a retail proposition i think than a online proposition and what is your hero
49:06product which what you know there's usually an outstanding one sure it's the gin and the rum
49:13and have you ever done collaborations with people like the craft gin club or that have you ever worked
49:18to get more exposure with uh the the honest answer is no we get the odd occasion we had an
49:24interesting
49:24conversation with the natural history museum they wanted to kind of us to do a marry-up as it were
49:29regarding all the botanicals so but then beyond that no we haven't done any other sort of
49:34collaborations we do get asked from time to time but and are these coming to you or you are you
49:38going
49:39to get them uh they they come to us and we're working on a project now actually which this will
49:44it's about 1500 pudding teas that will go into a goodie bag for some event somewhere in either london
49:49or birmingham next month i i'm trying to pinpoint a where it is yes where that's coming from and where
49:58it
49:58can go understood and it and it feels a little bit like at the moment like you're you're here you've
50:03got this lovely product and people sort of accidentally find you correct yes which might
50:07be why you struggle when i say where do you want this to go yes because i'm not sure you're
50:12clear
50:12yet are you no i'm much clearer than i than i used to be now i i i'm quite pleased
50:18with the fact we've
50:18navigated the last three years but i have a much clearer vision for the business and that is about
50:22selling product to consumers that's that's that's the the route i want to take whatever we can get
50:28ancillary to that would be fantastic but i just want to make that clear good and just picking up
50:35on what deborah said that i it's um it's a confusing picture okay and it left me feeling like maybe
50:43you're not really driving this business maybe the business is kind of driving you
50:48because it doesn't seem to be be that there's much intentional strategy taking place here
50:54what what do you want to push i want to push the larger botanical sets yeah i want to push
50:59these
50:59products here there's a range of whatever it is seven of them which there's like some coffee thing
51:03there as well yeah this has a quite flavors for coffee bag which just used and that's something i
51:06really want to push to my mind it looks like a slightly different brand to the other products
51:12yeah we've intentionally done that the reason is i really want to focus on retail with this product
51:17i want it to stand out on the shelves as the picture's gone on and on the the sort of
51:21mosaic
51:21that's emerged here is you bring a product to market and then because maybe there's fear surrounding
51:26that new product or it doesn't fly or it doesn't take off you start a new product and that's how
51:30we
51:30end up selling dog cakes there's there's more than a limited truth in that stephen for sure yeah
51:35i'm going to pull the i'm going to pull the plaster off i i like you so much as an
51:39individual and as
51:40a man that i've i've i've struggled to say what i want to what i'm going to say um because
51:45i just
51:45think you're really really top guy but i'm going to say that i'm out because um i just i don't
51:50have
51:50clarity on this business and i've not been able i've actually got the more and more we've discussed
51:54it i've got less clarity okay thank you very much eric
51:59good um i look at this and normally i'd look at an investment yeah i'd have a plan in my
52:07head
52:08but this just looks confusing so for that reason i wish you all the best amount well thank you very
52:18much indeed for your time gordon i'm i'm looking at you and i think that you are a fantastic product
52:28innovator you know what i actually see here is you've created one two three four five different
52:35businesses but my advice would be to pick the one and and just be obsessed with it because when you
52:43do
52:43a bit of everything and you've got brilliant ideas but when you start something and you take it to a
52:49level everyone else can come in and copy it because you're not constantly obsessing over how to improve
52:55it how to tweak it how to make it better um i'm afraid i'm i'm not the right dragon for
53:00you to take
53:01this forward because there are too many components and too many things going on and for that reason i'm out
53:09i couldn't agree less with susie oh really i couldn't agree less you have got one product your
53:16product is spice mixes he sells flavors that go into drinks that's what you've got but i think you've
53:24just got to get on top of your branding and you probably need to tighten your range up a little
53:29bit
53:29but i think you have to have this right you have to be known for something and it's there's not
53:34one
53:34product there that is that you can own what you can do is own the space and just be the
53:40best in that
53:41space now there's a reason why i i because i'm getting very passionate about this and i you know
53:47i i i can see exactly what you need to do i wish you hadn't asked for a hundred thousand
53:51pounds
53:53because a hundred thousand pound is a significant sum of money and it is a considered investment yes and
53:59when i think about what i would have to do to help you yeah there's an awful lot to do
54:04i think you could share it sorry i think you could share it
54:11i think there's an opportunity there might have to give up a large proportion of your company
54:18but then you might not have a business here
54:23can i ask what you're thinking uh peter i think deborah's spot on you are a drinks luxury drinks
54:28infusion company i think with very considered thoughts very actually not as much work as you
54:36think i think you could have a great business because i think that we could make this the leading
54:42company in its field so i would like to make you an offer you came in asking for a hundred
54:49thousand
54:49pounds for ten percent i'd like to offer you fifty thousand pounds yeah for twenty percent of your
54:56business and i'm doing that on the basis that if deborah would like to do the same because it was
55:02me
55:02that stopped deborah understood yep i mean sorry deborah can i ask would you be interested in in joining
55:10peter in this i would as long as you were happy with that well i'd be i i'd be blunt
55:25about it i
55:25my accountant told me i was being uh what's he's very generous when i started i mean i'd much rather
55:29part with i'd be much more comfortable parting with 20 percent if you'd be happy to take 10
55:34percent each for fifty thousand pounds now it's it's do you know what's really scuppered you it's the
55:39hundred thousand pounds okay yeah i mean i you know i i'm not sure i want you to give up
55:4340 percent
55:43of your business so so and that's really really important so absolutely i'll be happy but only
55:49when it feels right for you and if it feels right for you and if you if it doesn't then
55:54absolutely
55:54you shouldn't take it except the other i've got to be honest i think i think 40 would be would
55:59be too
55:59much i this sounds like a ridiculous question and you can take me behind the bike chairs and beat the
56:06beat the hell out of me later but i'd be much more comfortable i think i would stretch to 30
56:10percent
56:10if that was if that was workable for either of yourselves gordon i'm going to make this easy i
56:17i don't think you're you're you are uncomfortable about this and it's not good we're just not
56:23sometimes understood it just doesn't meet and the worst thing anybody can do is get into a business
56:29relationship where one of the parties feels really uncomfortable so on that basis i won't be
56:35investing and i'm out thank you very much indeed and gordon likewise on that basis sadly i'm going
56:40to have to say that i'm out but i'm going to wish you all the very best thank you very
56:44much gordon
56:45thank you it's been a great one yeah thank you very much you're a lovely man thank you see you
56:52gordon must depart the den empty-handed a two dragon deal was on the table
56:58but the entrepreneur felt the gulf inequity was simply too wide to bridge
57:07you know what i wanted to shake him quintessentially a british gentleman yes but the opportunity and
57:14the doors the two of you would have opened for him even at 40 percent i wanted to go up
57:18but just
57:19be like come on he didn't feel it and and the worst thing you can do yeah is is is
57:24having an
57:25unwilling partner it would have been amazing to have uh peter and deborah on board but i think
57:32ultimately giving away 40 of the business was just was was too much to uh to ask right rightly or
57:37wrongly and i'll find out in a few years time next time they seemed in shock oh please please i'm
57:56not the biggest fan in the world of the deals that that drop i'm like why why like i still
58:01need to
58:01understand why it's good to know you have a plan b you should always have a plan b do you
58:06agree with
58:06that because i don't he agrees with it i can't work out whether you're looking for an investment or
58:13you're looking for a dragon to dress up as a chicken a bit of both
58:17so
58:31so
58:33so
58:47Transcription by CastingWords
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