00:00Vielen Dank.
00:30Welcome, Minister. Pleasure to have you here with us.
00:32Thank you very much.
00:33So let me start with the escalating conflict that's gripping the Middle East.
00:37The UN is warning that if this continues to escalate, we could see more displacement.
00:43Should EU ministers like yourself start preparing?
00:47Well, obviously, the situation is serious at the moment, and we really don't know how far this is escalating.
00:58It's quite early to estimate what kind of effects this can have to Europe in short and also the long
01:09term.
01:10But of course, I think that Europe needs to look at this situation very carefully and also prepare for different
01:20kind of skin areas.
01:21Is Europe today equipped or prepared to deal with more migration pressures?
01:30Well, at the moment, we don't see, you know, large movements.
01:35And basically, usually when these kind of things happen, it's the nearest border that people are crossing.
01:45If we, in Europe, are able to manage our asylum system for those who need protection instead of those who
01:59are seeking better life, it's, of course, more sustainable.
02:04And in terms of Finland and its internal security, do you detect any imminent threats, the threat of Iranian sleeper
02:13cells and so on?
02:14Well, I think this is the question that is on the whole Europe, because, of course, these kind of conflicts
02:24can have result that the other people in Europe are trying to make violent movements as well.
02:37So this is something that our security and intelligence are looking very carefully at the moment.
02:47Okay, I want to move on and look at the EU's migration policy.
02:51Now there's a big emphasis on facilitating the return of migrants who do not have the right to stay in
02:58Europe.
02:59Yet on Tuesday, after a meeting about the situation in the Middle East, a European commissioner for the Mediterranean, Dubravka,
03:07Schweitzer, she said that the EU is now developing partnerships with Syria, Lebanon and Jordan to ensure conditions for voluntary
03:17and safe returns to those countries.
03:20Was this bad timing from the commissioner saying this about Lebanon, for example, while there's an active war affecting the
03:27country?
03:27We have failed with returns as a Europe.
03:32If we look, those who have a return order, only 20-25% is leaving from Europe.
03:40So it means that every, every year we are having more and more people who are staying illegally.
03:46So we need to do something.
03:48And I'm very glad that the commission have made very, I would say, quick movements on this.
03:57For example, this return regulation is now on EP.
04:01And we also hope that this will come out very fast so we can have new tools, for example, this
04:09return hubs in outside the EU.
04:12Of course, because this is one of the things that the commission has approved now.
04:15Is that something Finland is looking into, setting up return hubs in other third countries?
04:20Well, actually, Finland is doing strict policies and we have made a change of paradigm of the migration policies.
04:31And we are looking for very much new tools for the returns as well.
04:38So I think that all of these regulations, safe countries, safe countries of origin and this return regulation will be
04:48very good.
04:49You said you're looking into new tools.
04:51Does that mean you're in discussions with other countries outside Europe for return hubs?
04:56We need to have this regulation, of course, first.
05:00But, yes, we are very much interested in that option, too.
05:05And what do you make of the criticism of this plan?
05:09Some people would say, well, people who come to Finland and other European countries in search of a better life
05:15are then sent to a country they might have no link to, no family connections to, to a camp, essentially.
05:23Isn't that inhumane?
05:25I don't think it's inhumane, because there is an option.
05:32There is always option to go back to your country of origin, where did you came from.
05:37And the other thing is that asylum system wasn't created for seeking better life.
05:45It was for the protection.
05:47And if we are filling this basket with other reasons, then we are in trouble.
05:58It's not sustainable.
05:59But yet in Finland at the moment, that right to seek asylum is suspended, has been, I believe, since 2023.
06:05If I'm not mistaken, please do correct me.
06:07Is that the new normal for Finland now that, you know, people cannot come to your country and seek asylum?
06:13That is not true.
06:14People can come to our country and seek asylum.
06:18But the suspension of the right asylum in relation to what is happening on the border with Russia, that is,
06:24as you mentioned, changing the paradigm.
06:26What is happening now in our eastern border is that we have closed all the border crossing points.
06:36And we have made this border security law under the certain circumstances, which are very high.
06:44If we activate it, then the border guards have a right to prevent people to enter to Finnish territory.
06:54Or if they enter, we will check if they are vulnerable or in immediate life danger in that country where
07:04they enter to Finland.
07:05If not, then we will return them back.
07:10And in terms of the other threats coming from that border, reports of military buildup on the other side of
07:18the Finnish-Russian border, how concerned are you about that today and the threats to Finnish security and stability?
07:24Well, I think that it seems like the Russian side is building on their side.
07:37As long as they stay on their side, we are happy.
07:40I want to come back to the EU's migration policy.
07:42There seems to be a certain political current, which Finland probably would count itself part of this group of governments
07:49who really want to tighten the rules.
07:51But there's a smaller group of countries maybe taking a drastically different position, such as the Spanish government recently regularizing
07:58half a million migrants in Spain who are there irregularly.
08:04What do you, as the Migration Minister for Finland, make of those policies?
08:10Well, I wouldn't ever success the acts like that.
08:17And the other thing is that when we are having the same area, the Schengen area, the Team Europe, as
08:27people are talking about,
08:31then I think there is a high risk if some countries are doing basically really opposite than the other countries.
08:41Because now, for example, those people are very easily to go to other countries.
08:51So, I think that we need to all feel the responsibility of our common area.
09:05And it comes to migration as well.
09:07The Pact on Migration, which should be implemented from June this year, this was part of this Team Europe, as
09:15part of this solidarity mechanism that they call it,
09:18where there's an option for other member states to take in migrants that reach some of the member states under
09:23most pressure.
09:24And not many countries have picked up on this opportunity, including Finland, and there are estimates that there might be
09:32as little as 10,000 relocations in Europe.
09:35So, my question is, is this pact really working?
09:39Is there solidarity?
09:41Well, there are options how to show your solidarity, and Finland have to choose by helping with money.
09:51But I don't think that European migration policies are resolved by solidarity.
09:58I think we need to work on that way that we really decrease the numbers who is coming to Europe.
10:08And how we do this?
10:09We do this in third countries.
10:11And we need to make more innovative solutions, not to bring people in, and then, you know, we are basically
10:21in the situation where nobody wants to relocate.
10:25So, this is not working in that way.
10:28You talk about innovative solutions.
10:30What are those, in your view?
10:32What is the EU not doing that it could be doing?
10:35Well, I think that the most important thing is cut the smugglers' money-making machine.
10:42But there's been talk about this for years.
10:44Yeah, I know.
10:44But it's still a problem.
10:45I know.
10:45What needs to be done?
10:46I think that the most important thing is think how we prevent people to enter Europe by smugglers' boat.
10:59You do this by having presence on the other side of the sea.
11:04And you do this, for example, looking for the possibilities of safe ports that if somebody is rescued, they are
11:17bringing back to third country, not to Europe.
11:21So, I think that we need to decrease the numbers.
11:24Finally, just to close off, just for a clarification, you mentioned the presence on the other side of the sea,
11:29you said.
11:29But does that mean more presence for Frontex, more of a mandate for Frontex?
11:34What would that exactly look like?
11:35Well, actually, at this moment, Frontex mandate is re-right.
11:45So, there could be, I think, possibilities for that, for example.
11:50Okay.
11:51Minister, thank you so much for joining us on 12 Minutes With.
11:54Thank you.
11:59Thank you.
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