00:00Minister, thank you very much for joining us, obviously.
00:05Davos, it seems to me, looking at the past 72 hours,
00:10that this is a world at a moment of rupture.
00:12So, what comes next?
00:14It is a moment of rupture, but here it's more important than ever
00:17to have a strong voice saying that we cannot have a governance
00:21or multipolarity without multilateralism,
00:25and we cannot channel competition without cooperation.
00:29And you say it's a multipolar world, but it seems to me this is Trump's world, isn't it?
00:34Not at all. We are all in the world, and we are a large majority, by far,
00:38that we believe in international law, in the principles of the United Nations Charter, and in peace.
00:44You say peace, and you say we still believe that.
00:47The majority of the world still believes in that, but we've also seen a new institution,
00:51the Board for Peace, led by the U.S. President, President Trump.
00:55Is Spain going to join this effort for global peace?
00:58It will be the president that will make the final decision and the announcement.
01:01We are discussing among EU members what position to take,
01:06and if possible, to take a common position, as common as possible.
01:10Certainly, for Spain, what's important is that this entity will respect the work of the UN,
01:17that will respect the UN security resolution from which it comes from,
01:22and that it will respect international law.
01:25So, it seems to me the European Union is hesitant.
01:28The French government has said they will not join.
01:30The Italian government has said they cannot join as it stands.
01:33What's the concern?
01:35I think that the same that does, that this goes beyond Gaza,
01:40that there can be a clash with some principles of international law.
01:45Because it started as Gaza.
01:46Now it seems it's a private UN.
01:48It should be Gaza, because the Security Council resolution creates the Board of Peace for Gaza.
01:56That's the only task for which it's mandated, and that's how it should be.
02:01So, we are all Europeans.
02:02We are looking at that, and the legal and the political implication of this Board of Peace.
02:07And you prefer a joint position, an EU joint position?
02:10That would be the ideal?
02:10I would prefer.
02:12There are some countries that have already announced their choice,
02:15but we are still discussing among ourselves.
02:17So, some would say this Davos shows that it really is the force,
02:20and the survival of the Fed, and really the racketeering of the world.
02:24Everything now is a competition or competition for global resources and power.
02:28Is that the impression that you get?
02:29Not at all.
02:30Not at all.
02:31There are some countries that might like a world like this.
02:35But, once again, we are more the ones that we stand for our principles,
02:40and we are going to continue doing it.
02:42But when you see this whole context of a global race for resources, for rare earth,
02:48when you see President Trump saying, we are the strength of the world,
02:51does that not tell you the world is changing now in a way that
02:53perhaps is not compatible with those values?
02:55Certainly, there are countries that think that war or the threat of the use of force,
03:01it's another tool of foreign policy.
03:03But, once again, us Europeans, our responsibility, it's even greater than before.
03:10We have to stand strong on our values.
03:14And our values are those of democracy, of international law, and defending peace.
03:19But values is not a strategy.
03:20So, what is a strategy for Spain and for Europe?
03:23If you say we are the alternative and we can present a better alternative, what is it?
03:27Values are the core of what we are as Europeans.
03:31And if we lose our values, we renounce to be ourselves.
03:34Now, it's more important than ever that our security, our well-being remains in our hands.
03:41We have to remove the last obstacles of the single market to be even stronger economically.
03:47We have to tell everyone that we have the instruments to deter any coercion,
03:53whether it comes from trade or from the economy.
03:56And we need enterprises that can be in competition everywhere in the world, including in the digital world.
04:03And finally, we need the security, the European security, the deterrence in our hands.
04:08So, we have to start to move towards a European army.
04:11Towards a European army?
04:13Absolutely.
04:13And what would that look like?
04:14Because it's been pitched in the past and rejected every time.
04:17Why is this time going to be different?
04:18It was at the very beginning of our founding fathers.
04:20It was rejected.
04:21In the 50s, we were very, very close to doing it.
04:23Europeans were willing to die for Europe?
04:25Certainly.
04:26If we want to continue being a soil of peace in which no one can bring war,
04:31or no one can use coercion on us,
04:34either the threat of the use of force or trade coercion,
04:39we need to have the deterrence in our hands.
04:42And we need also a first coalition of the willings on European security.
04:49Secondly, an integration of our industries of defense.
04:52And at the end, a European army.
04:54The United States has really bullied,
04:56now that you obviously talk about solidarity,
04:59it has really bullied the Danish government over Greenland
05:01to the extent that they said,
05:02if you don't sell it, we're going to put tariffs.
05:04It seems he's now walking away from the tariffs.
05:06But how is that acceptable?
05:07The seas that we've seen over the past two weeks.
05:10Is that an acceptable way of doing things?
05:12Certainly not.
05:14And still, there's a deal by NATO.
05:15He won.
05:16The pressure on Denmark and on Greenland must stop.
05:21Spain has been very clear since the very beginning.
05:23The future of Greenland belongs to the people of Greenland
05:27and to the Danish people.
05:29And the people of Greenland have said very clearly,
05:31they want to remain as a part of Denmark.
05:33They want to remain as a part of an EU member state.
05:37And have you heard any information, Minister,
05:40about what this deal entails over NATO?
05:42You are an ally of NATO.
05:43Denmark is too.
05:44I suppose you would want to know
05:46what is it that NATO has worked at with the US president.
05:49Do you know anything about this?
05:50Well, it's not NATO.
05:51It's the Secretary General of NATO.
05:53But he is NATO.
05:53And to one of the allies, we are all NATO.
05:56Of course they are NATO.
05:57Of course.
05:57And it's normal that the president of a country
06:00talks to the Secretary General of NATO.
06:02The president of Spain has talked on bilateral.
06:04We all do it.
06:05But on this announcement,
06:08the only thing I know is the announcement
06:10that was made yesterday.
06:11I talked to the ministers of foreign affairs
06:13of other allied countries.
06:15They have the same information than me,
06:17just the announcement.
06:17And I'm sure that wherever has been discussed
06:20will be brought to the Council of NATO.
06:24And just finally,
06:25Spain is a big player in Latin America.
06:27You pushed very hard for the trade deal of Mercosur,
06:29which is now finally through the finish line.
06:31You said geopolitically it was very,
06:33very important to get it done.
06:34But of course,
06:34the continent is also in a moment of transition
06:36because of the dramatic arrest
06:39and capture of Nicolás Maduro in Venezuela.
06:42How do you see this relationship going forward?
06:44And you've always talked about
06:45a democratic transition.
06:46That's not happening.
06:48Certainly,
06:49Latin America is the closest region
06:52to the European Union.
06:54And we have all to win to be together.
06:56Mercosur,
06:57it's really, really good news.
07:00As for Venezuela,
07:01what we want for Venezuela
07:03is a wide dialogue
07:04among the government and the opposition
07:07that will bring a peaceful
07:09and democratic solution
07:11from within the Venezuelan people,
07:14not from the outside.
07:15Are you concerned that President Trump
07:16seems to really care about the oil first?
07:19The oil and the natural resources of Venezuela
07:22belong to the Venezuelan people
07:24and it's a part of their sovereignty.
07:26That must be part of this broad dialogue
07:28among Venezuelans as well.
07:29And just lastly,
07:30Spain was very outspoken when it comes to Gaza
07:33and you were very outspoken
07:34about the idea of the two states solution.
07:37Is there any hope that we are going to see that manifest
07:40in the next year?
07:41Because it seems to me this conversation has now really stalled.
07:44If we want peace, stability and security
07:47for everyone in the Middle East,
07:49including for Israel and Israeli people,
07:53we have to put in place the two states solution.
07:55And that means also a viable and realistic Palestinian state
07:59living next to Israel.
08:00And in 2026,
08:02it seems to me it's lost momentum.
08:03I hope so.
08:04It's high time.
08:06Too much innocent blood has been there for decades.
08:12It's high time that we put in place the two states solution.
08:15Well, Minister, thank you very much for joining us.
08:17Thank you.
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