00:00The Reed Shepard, coming off of a 19-10-7 game with six steals on top of it,
00:06admittedly against the Wizards, who were kind of unserious.
00:10But Reed Shepard, in the time that he has had an opportunity to start,
00:13has been really damn good.
00:16And the conversation has been about the possibility of Reed starting
00:19one of the big holdups that it feels like is there.
00:22Not to say that we don't know, well, I don't know if we know for certain
00:25because I don't know how you get particularly into Emae's mind.
00:28But the likelihood is it's that defense that is holding back Emae Odoka
00:33in particular from putting him into that place as a starter, right?
00:35I think Emae Odoka, when he talks about, or I should say thinks about defense,
00:42he's looking at a skinny mirror.
00:44A skinny mirror in the department store, you put on the clothes,
00:47and, hey, it looks good on me.
00:49And then you go home and you're like, eh, it's not the way I really saw it
00:52in the store.
00:53He looks at his defense and says, yeah, man, we're really good.
00:56We're a defensive team.
00:57But we're not seeing that.
00:58They're an okay defensive team.
01:01They have some issues.
01:04So the whole point.
01:05Oh, you mean like the entirety of the defense?
01:07Yeah.
01:07Yeah, no, his identity is, man, we're going to play great defense.
01:10Are they playing great defense?
01:13That's an interesting question because this has been something.
01:16Great.
01:16The word is great.
01:17I wouldn't say great.
01:17The word is great.
01:19Well, I mean, and I want to pull this up just so I, and yes, you know,
01:22I'm going to use statistics here.
01:24But, like, they're top, they're about top 10 in the last month just talking
01:29defensively, and then they're top five just over the season when it comes to
01:33these.
01:34There's a lot of times where it doesn't feel great where I also have to
01:37recognize that this is just kind of where the league is in general where the
01:41offense is, it leans towards offense at times.
01:44But, no, I would not feel like, it doesn't feel as great as just generally
01:49what I would say.
01:49Do it feel as good as last season?
01:51No.
01:52No, absolutely not.
01:53No, absolutely not.
01:54We know that, and I think we know that.
01:56You know, you can talk about, you know, top 10 or whatever, and then you're not
02:00wrong, but they're not playing great defense, which leads to my question.
02:04Are we overplaying this Reed Shepard is not a good defender so he can't start
02:09thing?
02:09I think the answer is an obvious yes.
02:11I think more recently, it's becoming obvious, I get it, it was against the
02:16Wizards, but he had six steals.
02:18He did?
02:18He had, what, one or two blocks.
02:20He had one block for sure.
02:23And those are defensive stats.
02:25I mean, a steal is more effective than forcing a guy to miss a shot because
02:31there's always an offensive rebounding possibility and all that.
02:33A steal means you get the ball.
02:35You've got the ball on the defensive line.
02:37He can be an effective off-ball defender.
02:40He can block a few shots, which is really a remarkable trait for him because he
02:43is a pretty decent...
02:44Oh, he's just got really good instincts on when to get his hands into that
02:49pocket, you know, with the ball.
02:52That I will never begrudge him.
02:54He's been really good about it.
02:55And I think Emei himself said this on the postgame Monday night, was that when it
03:00comes to it, it's not just the steals, it's the gambling that happens, which he's
03:04actually been better about here recently.
03:06So I think that even Emei acknowledges some of these things about the defense.
03:10The thing that will get me, and I think will get anybody like Emei, is the Ole
03:14defensive times with straight line drives.
03:17And I think that you've made a point that I have to acknowledge, which is that is
03:20not always, and he's doing a little bit better about staying in those positions.
03:24As long as you are putting up a valiant effort, and especially when you add
03:28something defensively like these turnovers, especially when you're not just
03:33gambling for steals, but you're actually getting those in the context of pretty good
03:36defense, yeah, it's a little bit, it's better than I think that the doomsday kind
03:40of scenario and talk ends up being.
03:42And it should not be something that stops him from bringing what he has brought to
03:45you in this stretch, admittedly while Jabari is hurt of starting, which is he's
03:50brought to you a dude who sometimes can drive to the rim when the shot's not going
03:54in, sometimes can force defenses to have to step up because he's pulling up on
03:58jumpers from deep and knocking down shots.
04:00And then he's also been a pretty good passer, especially skipping the ball across
04:04the, across the court at times in ways that some of your other guys who have had
04:07to handle the ball have not been quite as good.
04:09So I I'm with you, man, as much as I've been on this show at the very least, the
04:14more, uh, the more read negative guy, I'm also in a place where I think the read
04:18probably needs to start.
04:19And which leads directly to, you know, my point on this whole question or, you know,
04:23are we sure that he's that big of, you know, that he's really not a quote,
04:26good defender, he's not what a man is or Tari or, you know, some of these other
04:30guys, but I think this is the point, what he gives you offensively, given his
04:36occasionally more than adequate defense, what he gives you offensively is a lot
04:41more than he gives up defensively.
04:43So you're saying it's worth it.
04:44It's worth him playing more.
04:46It is absolutely what he does.
04:47What he does for your offense is a lot better for this team than what he might
04:52give up occasionally on defense.
04:53Yeah, because I think that was the conversation a couple of years ago, him
04:57not playing as much as because of the defense, but he really wasn't in the
05:01scoring bag like that.
05:03Yeah.
05:03So that's why he probably didn't get as much time.
05:06But now I feel like he is playing at a higher offensive level where you could
05:11keep them on the floor way longer.
05:13And just to kind of illustrate it with, with some very basic numbers here in his
05:18starts this year, what does he had?
05:19How many starts?
05:2011, something like that.
05:21Uh, and somewhere in there, but in his starts this year, uh, 16 points, 4.2
05:26rebounds.
05:27Okay.
05:27But 4.9 assists, 2.4 steals and 0.9 blocks.
05:33So basically a block a game that he starts.
05:36I mean, he's got 4.2.4 steals and, and a block a game on top of the offense that,
05:42that he gives you.
05:43I don't understand why that is like a, a, a deal breaker for Emei.
05:48And, and just the reason we know that, you know, Emei was asked recently, uh, after I
05:53guess the last game against the wizards, you know, about the starting lineup.
05:57When Jabari comes back, he says, yeah, we'll probably go back to the original.
05:59And I just did one of those, you know, those cartoon.
06:01What?
06:02But, you know, uh, he gives you enough, he gives you enough defensively and more than
06:08enough offensively.
06:09The question I have, cause I think we're, we're in agreement, right?
06:12And I don't want to, I don't want to beat a dead horse here that he should probably be
06:15a starter, especially circumstantial, right?
06:17Cause outside of the circumstance that you have this year of, you don't have a point guard.
06:21I think that it changes the dynamic, but we don't even need to get to that because
06:24that's not what you're dealing with this year.
06:25We know that you need a point guard, um, in order to add, you got to subtract who do
06:31you take out of what has been the typical starting lineup of a man, Thompson, Tari Eason.
06:38Now recently, Kevin Durant, Jabari Smith, Jr.
06:41And Alper and Shane Goon in order to accommodate Reed Shepard starting.
06:44I don't think it's a man.
06:45I know Figgy kind of floated that idea and it's not outrageous.
06:48Some people are talking about that.
06:49I think it's Tari Eason.
06:50Uh, I think it's Tari.
06:52I think you can go with both of those guys and have, have a man back in a, in a
06:55more
06:56comfortable place, uh, on the court and, you know, offensively, especially.
07:01So, okay.
07:02That's interesting.
07:02Cause I think you can make a case for a lot of these guys.
07:05Now the tough part about making the case for Jabari is he's been incredible this year.
07:09And you've seen in some of these games where he has not played, even though they've managed
07:12to get some victories, um, the ability for him to roll over and, uh, you know, be a incredible
07:17help side defender and help Alper and Shane Goon sometimes with rim protection, or at least,
07:22uh, being a rim deterrent is, is necessary.
07:24Some, some of his shooting has been really good.
07:27Um, I, it might, it might have to be Tari Eason, although I love what Tari Eason brings
07:33as, uh, as an additional defender player.
07:36Yeah.
07:36You know, the energy, it could be, is what I'm saying.
07:39It could be a bench guy, you know, more energy, more toughness, more, you know, grit, whatever
07:43you want to do, uh, as opposed to what you're, you know, what you're giving up, you know,
07:47offensively, because here's the other thing.
07:49And I don't think this is a small thing.
07:51You know, you're in the Western cops, uh, for the top six teams scoring wise, this has
07:56been a high scoring year in the NBA.
07:57Yeah.
07:58That, you know, this has been just by and large, they're scoring a lot of points in the NBA
08:01this season for the top 16, uh, six teams that are in scoring this year or in the Western
08:07conference.
08:08So if you're going to get to the playoffs, yes.
08:10Oh, maybe our defense can, you know, uh, you know, pop up and make a couple of stops,
08:14uh, in a game and, and win that game.
08:17I get it, but you're going to have to score a lot of points.
08:20You need to get in the arms race.
08:20You need to get in the arms race with the Oklahoma city.
08:23Uh, I think they're no Denver's number one scoring team.
08:26And then I think it's Oklahoma city, San Antonio, uh, Timberwolves.
08:31Can I get spicy then?
08:32If we're talking about the arms race and you're talking about being able to score with that,
08:36then not put you in a place where you have a man Thompson come off the bench could, because
08:40of the scoring that Tari Eason knocks down shots as well.
08:43And we're talking about Jabari knocking down shots.
08:44Tari Eason knocks down shots.
08:46Would it be a men Thompson who has not been as much of a score, especially not to his typical
08:50degree this year?
08:51And that's what figure was thinking.
08:52Yeah.
08:53I mean, I mean, to me, I've, I just felt like he didn't really have that offensive explosion
08:59that I thought he was going to have this year.
09:01Yeah.
09:01And you got to somehow you got to keep Reed Shepard on the court.
09:04I think y'all mentioned a couple of weeks ago, how they kind of, I guess when they both
09:09on the court, they kind of, what you, what you call, I think you call a man Thompson, a
09:14man without an Island.
09:15A man without a country, a man without a country.
09:18Yeah.
09:18So I'm wondering if that's the smart decision, but I think somebody brought it up in the press
09:23conference and, uh, Emei was just like, I mean, that's the thing we might, the whole
09:28conversation is outside of the realm of what Emei feels like in this moment, but it's not
09:32so foreign because he came off the bench before it's not, it's not like is Kevin Durant coming
09:37off the bench or anything.
09:39I'm surprised that you didn't slot this down immediately for what he brings as a defender
09:42and some of the other, like off ball type things that he can do.
09:45You're talking about Tari?
09:46No.
09:46The idea of maybe a men possibly coming off the bench.
09:48No, I don't think it's crazy.
09:50I think, I think the right answer is Tari.
09:52Cause then a man can be in a better offensive role offensively.
09:55You know, I think you're going to have to score points.
09:57Hey, but we'll shut them down.
09:58We'll hold them to 86.
09:59No, you won't.
10:00You absolutely will not.
10:02You know, this is a year where teams are scoring and look at the teams in the Western conference.
10:06They are scoring for the top six.
10:09I mean, isn't, isn't Denver averaging like 126 or something like that.
10:13I mean, it's ridiculous.
10:15So you're saying you're going to shut down Denver if you play them in the post season
10:18with, with this regular lineup and, and, uh, and Reed Shepard on the bench.
10:22You said fight fire with fire, huh?
10:23Yeah.
10:24You got to score.
10:25It's kind of the name of the game.
10:26You know, put the ball in the basket.
10:28Is it?
10:29It's not about that.
10:30Yeah.
10:30The great Bill Russell said the game was, is, and always will be about getting buckets.
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