- il y a 5 jours
Kasey Esser breaks down his rise in the Duanju industry from landing a breakout werewolf role to producing his own action-romance microdramas. He shares sharp insights on pacing, audience psychology, storytelling trends, and why owning your stories is the real endgame. A practical, no-fluff look at where vertical drama is headed and how to win in it. Interview by Wenwen Han
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00:00My name is Casey Esser and I started acting in vertical dramas in spring of 2023.
00:07So pretty early on as far as the United States is concerned.
00:11And, you know, since then, you know, I've also started producing vertical dramas as well.
00:17Could you tell us more about it?
00:19The first one, I mean, for me in the vertical industry, producing is my long-term goal, like endgame with
00:27what I want to do.
00:28You know, I want to own the stories that I participate in.
00:33And the first one that I did was with my drama, Love in the Shadows, which is streaming on my
00:39drama and drama box.
00:41And then I co-produced one with Short Zap called Never Cheat on a Hidden Heiress.
00:47And then the one that I'm really excited about is one that I produced independently, meaning no platform was involved.
00:54I just made it and it's an action-adventure microdrama.
01:00And that's the genre that, you know, I want to do and that I think fits really well for vertical.
01:06And that's in post-production now.
01:08And then once that's done, we'll chop it around and, you know, test that model.
01:14Did you write a script?
01:15I did write that script.
01:16It's called Love Under Fire.
01:17How did you get into the short drama industry?
01:20Well, I was like most actors in the sense that I wasn't working.
01:26I started acting in 2021.
01:28And, you know, I had done all these things.
01:31And, you know, I had an agent and manager at the time.
01:34And they had reached out to me and said, you know, hey, we think you're really talented, but this just
01:40isn't happening.
01:41And so they let me go.
01:42And so the next day I went back on the casting sites and there was a listing for a mobisode,
01:48mobile episode.
01:50And it was called like Faded to My Forbidden Alpha.
01:53And it was werewolves and like all these things.
01:55And I was like, oh, this is really interesting.
01:57So I submitted my audition, didn't hear anything.
02:01And then a friend of mine from acting class was like, hey, you know, I know this producer from this
02:06like real short company.
02:07They're looking for this alpha Alexander werewolf character.
02:11I think he'd be great for it.
02:12I was like, oh, I actually submitted, but I didn't hear anything.
02:15But I reached out to the producer.
02:17And she was like, hey, Casey, you know, we saw your resume.
02:20You know, basically we didn't see your tape, but we'll watch it right now.
02:24And I had the job booked, you know, that night.
02:28And that series happened to, you know, be one of the first viral series in the U.S.
02:33And that kind of kickstarted my whole journey.
02:37And I've been doing them ever since.
02:38What's the difference between performing in a short drama and like long form series?
02:44Well, admittedly, you know, I had done a couple of short films in one play.
02:48So I didn't have a ton of experience on the other side.
02:52But to me, it's really just a difference of pacing.
02:57You know, performance wise, I'm still coming in, knowing my character's intention and what I want to bring, you know,
03:03to that environment.
03:06Performance wise, I'm not thinking any differently.
03:11Sometimes the notes I'm given is to go, you know, bigger.
03:15So that's, you know, sometimes the difference with vertical is, you know, they want people to be able to watch
03:21these potentially without audio.
03:23So you have to really be able to deliver certain expressions and reactions that are bigger.
03:28But to me, it's just the difference of pace and how fast we're moving.
03:33How were you defined it?
03:35And what's the essence of short drama?
03:37To me, this is another fantastic medium of storytelling.
03:41You know, it's not a replacement for movies or TV.
03:46It's simply another option for people, you know, to enjoy stories that are aspirational, to enjoy stories that are about
03:55love.
03:57And, you know, it's I think even in the short time that it's been in the United States, it's really,
04:03you know, evolved and it will continue to.
04:05You know, right now it's mainly, you know, soap opera.
04:09Yeah. Right. And but that will continue to be the case.
04:14But the genres will, I believe, continue to to expand.
04:20And, you know, the essence really is is like what I mentioned.
04:24These are aspirational love stories that people can believe in without any sort of other ulterior message.
04:30This is pure entertainment and escapism and a way for people to better deal with their own life.
04:39You mentioned about the genres are expanding.
04:43So what do you see the trend?
04:45What kind of genres before and what the trend did you see?
04:48I really believe in the action adventure genre.
04:53I think it really sets up for the short episodes of the micro dramas and having those action cliffhangers and
05:02being engaged in something on the phone that's, you know, moving and going.
05:05And so I really want to push the space in that genre direction to have it be a real option.
05:14And outside of that, I really think anything is is is possible.
05:20But for me, that's where I see a big influx of stories coming.
05:25The form is a very small screen, right?
05:27It's a vertical screen.
05:28And it's not like theater.
05:30You sit in a theater.
05:32It's very immersive.
05:33And how do you get audience excited?
05:36It's a good question.
05:37I think it's in the same way as as the other types of stories.
05:40It's really about the performance of that lead couple.
05:46And as long as you are invested in that, the action is an accessory.
05:50But really, the core of the story is still the romance.
05:55And, you know, when I say action adventure, you know, I'm saying we still have that romance element.
06:02Like the one I produced, you know, I have to team up with a woman and it's like an enemies
06:07to lovers arc while we go on an adventure together.
06:10The action is a cool piece of it, but it's still really about those two primary actors and delivering that
06:20that performance.
06:21That's a very smart move, like romance plus action, because romance, that's something it's really proven in the market.
06:30So what kind of story do you think the Americans or North American people, especially my audience, will like?
06:36Yeah, I think with regard to that, I know, you know, the micro dramas started in China around 2018, you
06:44know, so we're less mature as a market in the United States.
06:48And it will continue to ramp up.
06:50I'm sure they also started with women and then expanded out to guys.
06:53Again, I think the action romance piece will be a big part of capturing some of that male audience while
07:02still retaining the essence of the verticals, which is romance.
07:08And, you know, just adding in elements that, you know, get guys, you know, more excited, you know, like, again,
07:16with Love Under Fire, like there's a plane jump, there's a motorcycle chase, there's, you know, things that are still
07:22enticing that guys, you know, would be, you know, naturally more inclined to watch.
07:28But I think action will be a big inroad to that male audience.
07:33How do you prepare and get into the character in such a short time?
07:37Yeah, each set is a little different.
07:39Unfortunately for me, memorization is definitely a strength.
07:44So even with 10 to 12 pages of scenes and dialogue a day, you know, I can focus in and
07:51do it.
07:52But yeah, you are under certain time constraints.
07:55The difference with vertical that helps in that way is because the episodes are shorter, typically a take is only
08:06three to four exchanges between the characters at most.
08:11So what you have to keep in your mind is a little less.
08:14They're not like running the camera for two minutes while you go through a scene.
08:18It's usually like 30 seconds before they call cut.
08:21And they're changing the lights and setting up.
08:24And that's your time to, you know, focus in to review my script and my dialogue and actions the night
08:31before I go to sleep.
08:33And then when I'm sleeping, it sort of cements itself.
08:36When an actor receives short drama script, most things are already set.
08:40So as an actor, how do you bring actual depth or appeal to the story and your character?
08:46Can you share an example?
08:48Yeah, for me personally, I first try to look for what can I, how can I bring myself into the
08:57character?
08:57So where can I identify with this person and how can I bring me to it versus viewing it as
09:05like a separate, separate thing?
09:08Then, you know, just looking for even just one thing that's slightly different from maybe a past, let's say I
09:17play five CEOs and back to back.
09:19There is something to be mined with bringing out some little nuance to make it different.
09:27And I do work at that.
09:29And that is a compliment that means a lot to me when someone says that each time they see me,
09:34it's something interesting.
09:35Because even if the line says, say this, ways that you can read that and display it.
09:44So I really try to work on, you know, how can I just bring more of myself?
09:50And then also, how can I just, you know, tap in a little bit deeper on this particular character?
09:56Is there any example?
09:57Like, for example, there was a series that I did last year that I believe is on Flex TV and
10:03some others called My Billion Dollar Waiter.
10:07And it's more comedic, for sure.
10:10And my character is pretty quirky.
10:13And I really leaned into that.
10:14I was like, oh, I can really, you know, dial this in, bring this and make it different, even though
10:20I'm still a CEO and all these things.
10:23And three days in, I was told that the client or whoever, they were like, Casey's being too funny.
10:33And I'll say, oh, interesting.
10:36But I decided not to change.
10:38And sure enough, it comes out.
10:41And then the client actually reaches out to me, saying that they're very happy with how the series turned, that
10:48it was very charming and different.
10:50And that was a reminder to trust my instincts with a character and really, you know, because I could have
10:57gone the CEO route of being cold, stoic, and, you know, doing maybe the archetype.
11:05But I was like, I think this is a little bit different.
11:08This is written a little bit differently.
11:09So I just trust now what my gut tells me with a character.
11:14And I just commit to it.
11:16Do you interact with the audience, how their feedback influenced your acting?
11:20Yeah, I mean, it still means a lot.
11:23Any message or comment about a series, I am reading at the very least, if not replying.
11:33Because not only from my performance, but I'm more looking at how they're viewing the story.
11:40And what they think was good about the story, what's not good.
11:44Because as I think, from a producer perspective, you know, what is the audience responding to positively?
11:52What are they responding to negatively?
11:54And I can log all of that for future series that I produce.
11:59So that I'm making sure that I'm making things that people want to watch.
12:04And that I'm hearing them.
12:06And I think that's really powerful.
12:08Starting as an actor and now producing is, I'm really connected to the audience.
12:13So I can engage with them every day and know, okay, this worked, this didn't.
12:19And when Love Under Fire comes out, it'll be the same thing.
12:22Hey, what did you guys like about this?
12:24What didn't you like?
12:25You know, what can we do better?
12:26And then roll that into the next production.
12:28What do they like and what do they dislike?
12:31Can you give me an example?
12:32Yeah, there was one message that stands out.
12:36There was a series, but I can't remember the exact series.
12:40But there was one where I didn't, we married at the end, right?
12:45It ended like a little bit on a cliffhanger, but it also wasn't fully resolved.
12:50And someone messaged me very upset that it did not end in a wedding.
12:56And to me, I was like, oh, this ending was different.
12:58It was cool.
12:59But from the audience perspective, they wanted what they expected, which was these end in weddings.
13:06They end in happily ever after.
13:09And why didn't that happen?
13:11And I was like, oh, even though we may want something different and fresh, that doesn't mean the audience.
13:18We have to remember why they watch in the first place, you know, so that that one always stands out
13:24to me because I was really surprised.
13:25But then I thought about it and I was like, actually, this makes a lot of sense.
13:29So that's a romance story, right?
13:31It was still a romance story.
13:33It just didn't end with the happily ever after.
13:37It was sort of ambiguous.
13:39And I've also learned that unless there's a guaranteed sequel coming, the fans do not like when something is like
13:47to be continued.
13:49You know, if it's going to be too, you've got to make a part two.
13:52You can't just leave it hanging.
13:54The audience does not like that open loop.
13:57So what do they like?
13:58Can you give me an example?
14:01Yeah, I mean, at least in a particular audience, you know, right now they really want to see, I wouldn't
14:10say different kinds of stories, but they do want to see fresher storylines.
14:17Because at least the people who are invested in me, who follow me, they've been watching verticals for two years.
14:23And, you know, they want the certain tropes of romance and love and happily ever after.
14:33But they don't want to see the abuse, the sometimes maybe darker elements.
14:41And I found that to be a recurring comment or message of people saying, because I have a on Instagram,
14:50I have a like a subscriber chat.
14:52And in that chat, they talk about verticals that they watch.
14:55And I read through and see what they're saying.
14:57And a lot of times, you know, they'll say, hey, I started watching this series, but there's a lot of
15:04abuse and blah, blah, blah.
15:06I'm like, oh, okay, let me let that in mind.
15:08So when I read scripts or evaluate series to perform in, you know, I want to make sure that I'm
15:14doing storylines that are, I hate to say the word elevated, because I think that gets overused, but sweet romance,
15:22and maybe a little bit of spice.
15:25But, you know, something again, aspirational and about love, and that's a little funny, and allows me to be me.
15:32Apps are based on ad buying.
15:35For those creative ads to attract the audience, they need to have some shock value.
15:40In some way, as a producer, how do you balance a shock value and, you know, the audience feedback?
15:47Yeah, I think that's one of the big questions that I think a lot of producers and creators will have
15:53to, I wouldn't say there's one answer to it, but something that just has to be figured out and determined.
16:00And that's the question of what defines quality, you know, because we all say we want, you know, more quality,
16:07all these things is quality something that's objectively good, or is quality something that gets people to click?
16:14Because those two things are not necessarily the same.
16:19So how do you balance expanding the space and getting different audience and all these things and rewarding the current
16:29audience without necessarily resorting to certain things that a lot of the audience doesn't like?
16:36Because on the one hand, 10 people can say they don't like the abuse, 10 people don't mind it.
16:42Maybe that's an aspect that gets them into the series, like you said, and gets them to click.
16:48So that'll be an ongoing discussion of how do we hook people and bring them in, while still making stories
16:57that we're excited about and that we're proud of.
16:59And it's one that I have not yet figured out by any means, because I still consider myself new to
17:08verticals, but it's one that I'm determined to get closer to an answer on.
17:14I think Short Drum is an emotional product, delivering emotion to the audience.
17:20What kind of emotion connection do you think your audience gets from your characters or your shows?
17:26Yeah, I mean, I get some really, I guess I would say surprising messages of like, not just me, but
17:33how much vertical dramas can positively impact someone's life.
17:37You know, getting messages from people in hospitals saying that, you know, I'm going through chemo, but, you know, watching
17:45your series is helping me get through that.
17:49Each character that I do, like I, like we talked about, I do try to make a little bit different
17:53each time.
17:54And I always do 99% of the time play the hero or the good guy.
18:00And, you know, when they're watching me on screen, I think they feel comfortable, but they also are interested and
18:10they want to see more.
18:11So, you know, those two things are very powerful and getting someone to be, you know, invested in watching is
18:18that it feels easy to watch, but also intriguing to watch.
18:23And, you know, from that first series onward, people were resonating with whatever it was I was doing.
18:29So that's why I mentioned, I try to bring myself to the character as much as possible because my audience
18:36likes seeing me.
18:38So I'm going to try to bring me to, to that, you know, not deviate away from what's working much
18:47like a vertical story.
18:49What kind of emotion do you think your audience wants to gain from verticals in general?
18:54I don't know if hope is an emotion, but hope is the first word that, that comes to mind.
19:01I think they want to feel, or they do feel a certain sense of hope because, you know, verticals for
19:07the most part are fantasy, right?
19:09It's like, you know, this billionaire comes in and, you know, sweeps you off your feet and you have this
19:17crazy love story against all odds.
19:20And I think, you know, not to be cliche, but I think, you know, when you finish watching a vertical
19:26series, especially when it ends happily ever after, you feel happy.
19:29And, you know, that's what I want people to feel when they watch me or my series is after you
19:36finish watching, you feel better and you feel happy.
19:41You feel like, okay, let's, let's start and live life and let's like, let's do something and strive more and,
19:49you know, feel better equipped to handle life's many stressors.
19:53So that's what I want to do for the audiences, you know, bring them happiness and give them permission to
20:01dream.
20:01In that case, do you think Oresho a drama should end happily?
20:05For the one that, that I would like that.
20:08I, and again, I'm only going off of feedback I've gotten from the audience and also personally what I would
20:14like to see.
20:15I think there's room depending on the genre for certain things, but otherwise I personally, when I watch a movie,
20:22I do like to see a happy ending.
20:23I do like to see a happily ever after in short.
20:27Yes.
20:27If someone new wants to start acting in verticals, what advice would you give them?
20:33I think the first thing is to embrace it.
20:35I think we're much further along, obviously than two years ago, but in the beginning and really up until very
20:40recently and still a little bit,
20:42there's a lot of skepticism on from actors being like, should I do this?
20:48Should I not do this?
20:49Like these stories are cheesy or whatever, or, you know, what are people going to think?
20:53You're an actor, get out there and work, go audition, go, go make something happen.
21:00It's not about, you know, perception, this perception, you got to put yourself out there.
21:04And this is a beautiful space.
21:07And, you know, if you don't take advantage of it now, you know, you're going to wonder in a few
21:14years, why didn't I do that?
21:17This was work that was right there.
21:19And that is making a big impact on the audience globally and creating all these opportunities.
21:26And we live in a world now where attention is the biggest currency that you can have.
21:31You know, we're far removed from the 1970s, 80s, 90s, even early 2000s, where you could be an actor, audition,
21:39get one movie and then go.
21:42This is the different world now.
21:44So my advice is to get in there and, you know, make the most of it.
21:49How do you design the character and where do you get the inspiration?
21:54The series that I wrote was loosely based on Mission Impossible and a movie called The Bodyguard, which is a
22:02little bit of an older movie.
22:03But, you know, once I had those two references in mind, you know, I was able to sit down and
22:09map out, you know, the story.
22:12And I just started writing.
22:13I didn't do any sort of outline or anything.
22:16And with vertical dramas, each episode is like roughly a minute.
22:19Each script page is typically one minute of screen time.
22:24Typically is what they say.
22:26So that gave me structure on, okay, episode one is like a page.
22:32Let me write a page.
22:33Page and a half.
22:34And then episode two, another page.
22:36And it gave me like a kind of structure to kind of focus in on and actually made it easier
22:43than if I were to write like a full on TV show that's 60 minutes long or a movie and
22:51not having those markers of structure.
22:55But yeah, once I started writing, I was just off to the races.
22:58How do you design Hook when you write it?
23:01And, you know, I'm also thinking in terms of myself as an audience member, what would hook me or what
23:08would, you know, be this.
23:10And I think just having acted in so many and seen so many, that part felt easy to be like,
23:18okay, I don't want to break these episodes up.
23:21And what would be an appropriate look to end on or event to happen.
23:28That's where the structure came in a little bit easier because I could end something and then be like, okay,
23:34now we're on to episode two, episode three.
23:36How do you design which part is the end of the episode?
23:41That felt a little bit more natural.
23:43You know, if I felt like there was a big reveal or even just a reaction, that to me set
23:49up pretty, the cliffhanger part I find to be pretty easy.
23:54If anything, it's more just keeping it within a certain length.
24:00Because with verticals, it's all about pacing.
24:04And sometimes, you know, if it's your idea, you want a lot of exposition.
24:09You want to explain this, explain that.
24:12But with vertical, you just got to go.
24:14And so that was, you know, maybe the biggest challenge was, how do I really keep this moving and not
24:24get and get it slowed down and have things that aren't necessary, absolutely necessary story?
24:31Because the script that I wrote and that we shot was 60 pages.
24:34So that's pretty short to tell a full action story.
24:39Sometimes you don't need to explain everything.
24:42What do you mean by that when you write a story?
24:44Yeah, I, in terms of like the character backgrounds, like, for example, I'm an ex-Secret Service agent in this
24:54story.
24:55I'm going with my daughter to the Philippines to protect a pop singer.
24:59You know, it says that I'm basically retired to spend more time with my daughter.
25:02That's it.
25:03You know, we don't need my whole history.
25:06We don't need any flashbacks to anything like that.
25:09We don't need to know why the Philippines, you know, it's just, we're in the story.
25:16We don't need any additional scenes with me and the daughter outside of what moves the story forward.
25:23And we don't need the pop singer's backstory on anything else.
25:28We can actually just tell that through how she acts and we can let the audience have their own imagination
25:35on what that could look like.
25:38So, yeah, there's just some things, particularly in vertical dramas, where you don't have to know everything.
25:44You don't have to.
25:45You know the essentials and then let's go.
25:48Maybe in films, if it's shooting a full-length film, it's probably going to explain, right?
25:54It'll probably explain.
25:55It'll probably have a lot of, like, extra shots that, you know, are great, you know, for the story and
26:01tell the story in a deeper way.
26:05But ultimately, maybe aren't necessary for actually moving the story forward.
26:12How do you catch the audience's attention in just five seconds?
26:15Yeah, I think that's where the lack of full exposition comes into play.
26:21Like, in this story, my daughter, you know, gets kidnapped by episode three.
26:29So, basically three minutes in, you know, we have our first, you know, big thing.
26:34And, you know, that's very fast.
26:39You know, typically in a feature film, it would be at least 10 minutes in.
26:43And that would still be kind of fast.
26:45So, in a vertical, everything is, like, cut it by a third or two-thirds.
26:50And, you know, so, but I'm cognizant of, you know, giving a little bit of air.
26:56But just enough to make the story make sense, but not over-explain.
27:03Do you think short drama or verticals should have some character arc?
27:08For example, in movies, our male lead have some trauma.
27:12And he will eventually grow in maybe next 100 minutes.
27:17Do you think short drama do the same thing?
27:19I do, yeah.
27:20Yeah, it's different, a little bit more compressed.
27:22But I think that's always a powerful and interesting thing to watch in any format, is someone who starts off
27:30flawed and is flawed.
27:33But through meeting someone or going through something becomes better and less flawed.
27:41And we see them work through that because any human being can relate to that.
27:48To seeing, okay, this person's not perfect, but we can always get better.
27:54And let's see how that happens.
27:56So, yes, I do think that makes a vertical drama much more interesting.
28:01It's like personal sides or some kind of physical side or psychological side.
28:09From the characters that I play, it's more that I start off very guarded.
28:15Whether that's from past trauma or being hurt by someone or losing someone, my heart usually in the beginning is
28:24closed off to finding true love.
28:27And then through, you know, meeting the female lead and all of that, you know, my heart softens through the
28:37story and I become more vulnerable and more open.
28:41And then you end up rooting for him because you're like, oh, like, you know, he was so standoffish and
28:47rude in the beginning.
28:49And now he's really sweet.
28:51And, you know, this person really opened his heart.
28:54What's the future of short drama?
28:56Great question.
28:57I mean, if you had asked me to predict two years ago where it is now, there's no way I
29:03would have thought of that.
29:07So I will pretend to be smart enough to know.
29:10All I do know is that it's going to continue to go up.
29:15You know, it's not going down.
29:16It's going up.
29:18And there are a lot of, you know, this is such a general answer.
29:22A lot of things will happen.
29:23And I know for me personally, I'll continue to move.
29:30I'll continue to act.
29:31But I will start producing more and more.
29:35And I think you will see more creators making their own vertical dramas and then selling them to platforms and
29:46doing that type of model.
29:49And I'll just see vertical dramas in every country of the world, even if they're not already.
29:54And I think you'll see it just become a very mainstream form of entertainment and storytelling.
30:02That's all I know.
30:04Do you think short drama is going to replace movies and TV series?
30:07I don't.
30:09I think, you know, if you get to a movie, you know, you're seeking a certain type of experience.
30:14If you watch a TV show, you're looking for a certain experience.
30:19And then if you're on your phone, that's a different kind of experience.
30:22And I think those are all exist simultaneously.
30:28And if anything, support each other.
30:30You know, this is just another way to tell stories and enjoy them.
30:34And if you're a champion of storytelling, then you should be a champion of vertical dramas.
30:38And if you're a champion of vertical dramas, you should be a champion of vertical dramas.
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