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TVTranscript
00:01They're responsible for some of the most famous video games in the world.
00:05When we were creating Abe's Odyssey, I just loved it. I loved who Abe was. I loved what he did.
00:14As we did concept testing, we found out that skateboarding is not about racing, it's about tricks.
00:20And so that is what started Tony Hawk's Pro Skater.
00:22But their rise to the top was met with obstacles.
00:26I said, well, obviously this needs to be a unisex restroom, because there are urinals in here, and I don't
00:31really want to walk in on the guys at the urinals.
00:34I think we helped make strides by working on all games across the board, not just working on a Barbie
00:41game.
00:42There were stereotypes.
00:43A lot of the games that are being made aren't necessarily geared towards women, and a lot of women just
00:48don't appreciate them.
00:50That were tough to break.
00:51I suddenly realized as I was talking that they weren't listening to me, and that their heads had actually swiveled
00:56around, and their mouths were hanging open.
00:59But they eventually prevailed.
01:02I'm director of public relations, communications manager.
01:04Design specialist.
01:05Producer.
01:06Executive vice president of president.
01:08President and CEO.
01:09This is the story about a small group of women who took an industry by storm and battled their way
01:14to the top.
01:15It's the story about the unstoppable women in gaming.
01:38When women first joined the workforce, their options were slim, and their civil rights were limited.
01:44But this slowly started to change during World War II.
01:48And while the men were off fighting the war, somebody had to fill their shoes in the workplace.
01:55And as time moved forward, so did women.
01:59By the turn of the 21st century, women were everywhere.
02:05My name's Elaine Hodgson, and I'm president of Incredible Technologies.
02:10I'm Kathy Brayback.
02:11I'm the executive vice president of robot publishing and brand management.
02:14I'm Sherry McKenna from Oddworld.
02:16I'm the president and CEO of Circus Freak Studios.
02:21These women, and several others, have become powerhouses in the video game industry.
02:26And just like some young boys, they have always been gamers.
02:30I was completely addicted to their games.
02:32I'd be playing at 3 o'clock in the morning with people huddled around the keyboard with me.
02:35I've always cut school to play games, so it wasn't a leap when I looked around and said,
02:41you know, I really want to be producing games.
02:43I love massively multiplayer games.
02:45And then there are those whose dreams weren't exactly filled with platforms and polygons.
02:50Actually, when I was younger, I wanted to be a pediatrician.
02:53But I don't like to see sick children, so I couldn't exactly do that.
02:56I studied psychology and communications.
02:59And of course, when you study those two things, there's not much you can do.
03:04You know, it's like, okay, so I have a degree in communications.
03:06Where am I going to get a job?
03:08I started just out of college not knowing what I was going to do
03:11and ended up working for a PR agency actually in Washington, D.C.,
03:15which eventually led to Los Angeles because I thought I wanted to work in entertainment.
03:18I actually studied science for a long time.
03:21I had my bachelor's and my master's in biochemistry.
03:23I started my doctorate in neurobiology.
03:25But fate had other plans.
03:28When I finished graduate school, I happened to meet someone from Infocom.
03:33And they had a testing position open and he called me and said,
03:36would you be interested?
03:38And I'm looking at the phone saying, wait, wait, you want to pay me to play these games?
03:44Okay, I can do that.
03:47Well, Incredible Technologies started in 1985 by myself and my partner
03:52because we lost our jobs at the last company that went down
03:56and decided to do it better ourselves.
03:59I've just spent my whole career producing high-end computer graphics.
04:04And it took about two years to open up a video game company
04:08because, you know, I'm not a gamer and I have very little interest in games.
04:12And I had very little interest in what they represented.
04:16These ladies are the masterminds behind some of the most popular video games in the world.
04:22And if fate hadn't stepped in, our consoles may have never met an adorable little guy named Abe.
04:29When we were creating Abe's Odyssey, I just loved it. I loved who Abe was.
04:38I loved what he did.
04:42Get me out of here!
04:43It never occurred to me that other people wouldn't identify the same way I did.
04:47So I wasn't nervous at all, to be honest. That's the arrogant part.
04:52I knew that it would reach out to the people and touch them the way it touched me.
04:56We may never have met the man behind the 900.
04:59As we did concept testing, we found out that skateboarding is not about racing.
05:03It's about tricks.
05:06And so that is what started us on the track of making Tony Hawk's Pro Skater.
05:11We all knew it was going to be successful.
05:13I mean, it is one of the top selling franchises ever.
05:17We may never have played ATV Off-Road Fury 2.
05:22It's the first game as producer I've worked on.
05:25ATV Off-Road Fury 2 is a sequel.
05:27It's a racing game on all terrains.
05:29We've enhanced our environments.
05:31We've added ATVs.
05:34We've added online to it.
05:35It's a real just pick-em-up-play racer.
05:38It's a great party game for players.
05:42And an epic multiplayer online role-playing game may have had another perspective.
05:48I worked on Asheron's Call, which is currently up to you.
05:52It's a pretty popular game.
05:53It has a very solid user base.
05:55But for these women, being a woman proved to be their biggest obstacle.
06:00I've been in situations where, you know, there was one restroom that I said,
06:04well, obviously this needs to be a unisex restroom.
06:07And we need to have, like, some kind of a system because there are urinals in here.
06:11And, you know, I don't really want to walk in on the guys at the urinals.
06:14Once I learned the business side of things, I started working with the producer on Jet Moto and Twisted Metal.
06:21When you're sitting with a group of men and they're working on a female character, you know, there's always animation
06:27or her breasts.
06:28And sometimes they have to know you to know that it's okay to animate that character.
06:36These women just want to make games, but the stereotypes seem to greet them on every level.
06:42But then there's things like somebody coming up to me and saying, did you call the Xerox guy?
06:47It's like, do you see me at the Xerox machine ever?
06:51You know, I don't do photocopies.
06:55Now, that doesn't mean that there aren't women in the industry.
06:57Of course, there are many women in the industry.
06:59They just don't get noticed as much.
07:02And a lot of the games that are being made aren't necessarily geared towards women.
07:08And a lot of women just don't appreciate them.
07:11Certainly when you come into the industry, people wonder, you know, are you going to be able to sort of
07:15cut it?
07:15Are you going to like it?
07:17And are you going to be able to understand the business?
07:24Unfortunately, the Xerox machine was just the beginning.
07:28The battle of the sexes has just begun.
07:33The fact of the matter is, this is a man's world.
07:38And women are second class citizens.
07:40And that's just how it is.
07:53For women like Sherri McKenna, Flea Standifer, Cathy Vraback, and many others, video games are their job.
08:01But the reality is, they work in an industry that has always been dominated by men.
08:08And for them, getting past the typical gender roles has been one of the biggest obstacles they've had to face.
08:14So I was looking for a job.
08:16So I called the lead programmer.
08:18He had not said anything about what I did up until that moment.
08:21And there was a pause.
08:22And he said, so, you must be an office manager.
08:26And I actually guffawed into the phone and said, no, but that's a good one.
08:31It seems like when I first entered the industry, I tend to see more women on children's games or Barbie
08:37games.
08:38I didn't see really anyone in sports.
08:43Launching Circus Freak Studios was a mutual brainchild between my program and myself.
08:48They wanted us to continue to work for them.
08:51How far will these women go to fit in?
08:54Sometime, you know, I'll step up and go, it's a female, you know, her breasts are stiff.
08:58They should be moving or her ponytail should be blowing in the wind.
09:03I started wearing t-shirts all the time and stopped wearing earrings.
09:07I always wear my hair up like in this, you know, kind of convenient bun in the back, which is
09:10kind of frustrating because I refuse to completely subsume my femininity to be accepted as part of this.
09:17But, you know, for a while, I kind of have to until I've worked my way in.
09:22And no matter how talented they are, when it comes to coffee, all eyes are on them.
09:28If you're going to ask me to bring you coffee, then you're going to drink what I give you.
09:33My job is to ship games, not brew coffee.
09:36You know, he was talking and then there was coffee in the back and, you know, he wanted a cup
09:40of coffee and he said, Cherry, could you get me a cup of coffee?
09:42Certainly, if you're put in a position where it's assumed that you're only there to serve coffee, then there's a
09:47problem.
09:48Being the minority does have its good points.
09:50You frequently go to industry association meetings or industry events and there's never a line for the ladies room.
09:58And something most of these women have to get used to.
10:01I've been in a situation where I was the only woman or the only professional woman in a group of
10:0630 or 35 people, which is a very different experience.
10:11And I think it's funny because a lot of times when you come in as a female and they don't
10:14know who you are,
10:16they automatically assume that you're there just to maybe take some notes or get the coffee.
10:21Instead of them actually getting to know who you are, they assume.
10:25And working internally with Nintendo, yes, you know, was more male dominated industry.
10:29I would love to see a man be in that situation where he would walk into a room and there'd
10:33be 10 women.
10:35He'd freak out. We'd say, well, that's, that's really odd.
10:38But no, women get used to that all the time.
10:41For me, being too thin skinned about this, I'd have gotten out of the business.
10:46Certainly in the earlier days, if you didn't have a sense of humor, you would have just bailed.
10:51I don't even pay any attention to it. If I paid attention to it, I'd probably run and hide under
10:55the bed every day.
10:57And what's the reason behind so few women in gaming?
11:00Part of the reason for that is the inevitable conflict between career and family.
11:07The work is tremendous. The hours are long. The sacrifice is sometimes really great.
11:12And sometimes in product development, the commitment to one's craft has to come first
11:17because of how much it takes and the dedication it takes to get a great game out on time.
11:23Clearly there's something going on that just isn't, isn't presenting this as an option.
11:27I think also a lot of women kind of get turned off by the really general stereotypical view of the
11:33industry,
11:34that it's for teenage boys.
11:37I personally don't know that many women that actually like playing games.
11:40I can't convince my fiancee to play any games.
11:44We still sometimes struggle, even in the industry, to find out what is it that females like about video games.
11:52What is it that we can draw them into it?
11:55A while back, the theory used to be that women, when they come out of college or look for jobs,
12:00didn't go to small companies, and all game companies at that time were small,
12:04and women like to go to larger, more stable companies.
12:07I don't know if that's very true anymore.
12:09The reality is, men and women think and work differently.
12:16Male or female, people bring unique qualities to a game based on their past experiences.
12:22Women's past experiences are slightly different than men.
12:25I find that women tend to take a slightly different view of whatever it is that's being presented.
12:31A lot of times it gets dismissed, but a lot of times it's taken very seriously, and those are exciting
12:36moments.
12:38Some of my coworkers in the past like having the female there, because there are certain jobs they think she'll
12:44do differently from a man, or she's right on it, and she's not going to waste her time.
12:50Everything is our priority. You know, you'll get it done right away.
12:55Some of these women's ideas are a little unconventional.
12:59I have a massage every single day, so I knew that with the stress that was going on, with the
13:05conditions that we were in, that it would be great to have a masseuse on staff that could give everybody
13:11a 15 or a half an hour massage.
13:13So maybe the answer to getting more women interested in gaming is to create more female characters.
13:19I think that it is good to have female characters because it makes it more approachable to women.
13:24It's unfortunate that it's quite often the female characters that men want to look at with large breasts and those
13:31kinds of bodies.
13:33And in all the games we have a female athlete, because there are females participating in the sports.
13:38At this point none of the females have the sort of name recognition to carry the game, but there will
13:43always be female athletes in the games.
13:44It's always a belief that, oh, women love puzzles, or they may like a racer, but they don't like the
13:49core, and they don't like RPGs.
13:51So we're still struggling to, you know, to pull females into it.
13:56Some research came out that said that 50 plus percent of all gamers were women.
14:00Which, at PC Gamer, we do our demographic survey, and we've got 96 percent male.
14:06And that's more general understanding of the way it is.
14:09And I was at a round table a couple of years ago where the moderator was purporting that the reason
14:14women weren't playing these games
14:16was because they'd go to the electronic boutique, or whatever, and see Lara Croft and the EverQuest chick in the
14:22window.
14:23Maybe it comes down to genre.
14:25The introduction of massively multiplayer online games is causing an upsurgence in the number of women playing games
14:31and getting interested in them, you know, getting involved with community.
14:36As games in general expand and there must be multiplayer options there, you'll get more women playing and so more
14:42involved in the development.
14:43Ew!
14:45The popularity of The Sims has really brought in so many women who are playing it.
14:51The simple answer is they're social.
14:53You create relationships.
14:54You talk with people.
14:57You interact with people.
15:00It is something that interests women more than just going out and killing things.
15:04It's just that they're not necessarily going out and talking about it.
15:09I think they tend to be more casual in their gameplay.
15:13So, the reason why we don't see as many women in the video game world is still up for debate.
15:18But the strides women are making are certain.
15:22Every day, more women are finding jobs in video games, and the advice they're handing out may surprise you.
15:38For the women in gaming, making video games is something they love to do.
15:42But fighting the odds is something they have to do.
15:46When I wake up tomorrow morning, guess what? I'm still going to be a woman.
15:49And not only that, but I'm going to wake up every morning and be a woman.
15:53So, I can wish to be a white Protestant male, but it ain't going to happen.
15:58These women helped launch games that are innovative,
16:03admired, and made millions of dollars.
16:05They have opened doors for the next generation of women,
16:08and are closing the gap between gender-specific jobs.
16:12I actually now run into one or two other women in the ladies' room when I'm at this conference.
16:17I've never seen a line here, and any woman who's ever been to any public function at all knows.
16:22If there's not a line in the ladies' room, something is really weird.
16:26I think the main thing is that the industry, just in general, has matured.
16:30There's been a greater understanding that we're not just a bunch of game geeks,
16:35and that's got to be a guy thing.
16:37If you look around, people are understanding that this is a business.
16:40So, obviously, there's no reason why women can't build any roles.
16:46It's nice to see females as artists.
16:48It's wonderful to see them as programmers, because that's really rare.
16:51So, and it's just to show that we're in every field of video game,
16:55and not just in sales or marketing.
16:59There are so many things that are open to young women today that haven't been previously.
17:04And I would love to see more and more women getting involved in this business,
17:07so that it has more of the type of balance that you see in other entertainment industries.
17:13You know, go for it.
17:16I absolutely think that the role of women in this industry will change when the games that are put out
17:22start tapping into female sensibilities.
17:24In the past, when technology was limited, and there just wasn't a lot that the game makers could do,
17:31naturally, it would appeal more to guys.
17:35As the technology becomes more sophisticated, then you can make the kind of games that women are more attracted to.
17:44Generally, those are games about stories.
17:54Games about characters that we care about.
17:57I can't find anybody.
17:59Whereas, if you can now get to a point where you can make a game that has more depth to
18:03it,
18:04it's going to attract more women.
18:08Certainly, as you start making games that appeal to women, women will want to be part of the process that
18:14puts out this product.
18:17And these women, who helped pave the way, have some advice for those wanting to follow in their footsteps.
18:24And that's very simple. Do the best work.
18:26Work really hard. Figure out what it is you want to do, and just be the best at it.
18:31Work really hard, be passionate about it, and you will win.
18:34And they have to accept you. They have no choice.
18:37It's a great business that it's growing, and it's becoming more important in the whole entertainment field.
18:43There should be no barriers, and they shouldn't even think about barriers.
18:47Just shake it off, and just do the best job.
18:51And actually make a difference.
18:53Now, especially.
18:59There's so many different arenas they could go into.
19:02If they want to go into art, then take some graphic classes.
19:06If they want to go into design, and actually design video games, then take and design, and just, whenever they
19:12get time, write up ideas, and pitch them to their friends, and see what they sound like.
19:17And above all, I mean, know games, love games, know that you want to make games.
19:23Because you'll be living, breathing, eating, sleeping them for very long hours every day.
19:28I don't think there are any limits just because you have to be a woman, or you happen to be
19:33a man.
19:35That doesn't matter. If you're talented, you'll succeed.
19:39And these women are still excited about the industry they've helped change.
19:44It's just so much more involved, and so much deeper than I thought it would be.
19:49You know, just with how important the industry really is, how much it's growing, and how exciting it is to
19:55be a part of such a great industry.
19:57And, you know, promoting video games, I don't think there's anything more fun in the world than that.
20:03I think this is an extraordinarily rewarding, extraordinarily creative industry for women.
20:12One of the interesting things to me is that it never occurred to me that I couldn't do this, that
20:16I couldn't go into this business.
20:18And what do these gaming gurus have in store for the future?
20:22Bigger and better golf games, because we have a brand here that's working out very well for us.
20:29Weston Studios is doing Earth and Beyond, our first massively multiplayer online role-playing game.
20:34You get to captain a starship, go out and adventure, and live the life of your favorite science fiction character.
20:41They're going to be very surprised, let me just say that.
20:44The next game that we're creating, I think, is going to be not what they expected.
20:49I probably shouldn't say anything more about it but that.
20:52So we know the video game industry is changing, both behind the scenes and in the games themselves.
20:58Women have climbed the ladder, and will continue to do so.
21:01Get in here. Jump in. Go for it.
21:03The only thing we can do now is wait and see what the future holds.
21:08What?
21:19The next game we're creating.
21:26Go open.
21:31Go open.
21:33Feel free.
21:34If we go open,adov.
21:35Go open.
21:36Go open.
21:36Go open.
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