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00:00Please welcome to the stage, Mr. Brian Penny.
00:03I was drinking a bottle of vodka a day,
00:05about 20 Valium and sleeping tablets a day,
00:08three to four bags of heroin a day,
00:10and a hundred mils of methadone a day.
00:12As a nation, we are predisposed to excess.
00:17It's easier to get drugs than it is to order food.
00:20Online betting, online shopping, online video gaming,
00:24online social media, it is undeniable.
00:27For 15 years, I was addicted to heroin,
00:29and other drugs.
00:30Do you want to see your image from 2013, Brian?
00:33You ready?
00:34Wow.
00:35I was on death's door and hit rock bottom.
00:38I got a place in a detox centre,
00:40and from there, I got into treatment.
00:42I went to college, and I now have a PhD in neuroscience.
00:46Nobody wakes up wanting to be addicted.
00:48There's nothing in it for that person
00:50other than alleviating the pain they're feeling.
00:52In this series, I'll be talking to scientists, experts,
00:56and people with lived experience of behavioural addictions,
00:58like gambling and gaming, and even your phone.
01:01I'll also be talking about substance addictions,
01:03like drugs and alcohol.
01:05My main goal for the day would be just, like, just a drink.
01:11That's what gambling done to me just took me to a dark place
01:13where I thought there was no way out and there was no escaping.
01:16There was a period where I would walk past that liquor cabin
01:18at, you know, at 9, 10 a.m., and I'd be drawn by it.
01:23This series will challenge what you think you know about addiction.
01:26Oh, yeah, hold on for a second.
01:27He's in recovery.
01:28You need to be sad.
01:29Put on a sad face.
01:30Be depressed.
01:31Cry and complain about your mental health.
01:33No.
01:34Most families are impacted by some sort of addiction,
01:37but change is possible.
01:38I thought there was no hope for me.
01:41I'm a million miles away from where I was.
01:43No one person is immune to addiction.
01:46It can happen to anybody.
01:47That's your biggest trauma.
01:49Okay.
01:51My trauma as a kid was...
02:01Take five.
02:02I think I will.
02:03I'll take two minutes.
02:04That's what I'm gonna do, bro.
02:05Give me two minutes.
02:25I was very anxious as a child, and that really came to the fore in the night time.
02:30And one vivid memory I have as a kid was me waiting in me bedroom for me mom and dad
02:38to come back from the pub, because me dad drank drover at the time.
02:42Usually they came back about 2 or 3 o'clock in the morning, and I always remember the cars
02:46coming into the estate.
02:47And every time a car came in, I'd be like, oh, that's them.
02:50Maybe that's them.
02:50And I'd jump up to the window hoping it was them.
02:52But it very rarely was.
02:54And I'd just jump back into my bed and try to go to sleep, but I never could.
02:58And even when my mom and dad did come home, I wouldn't tell them either.
03:01I never shared that experience.
03:03So I was always worried, always anxious, but terrified of sharing that inner experience
03:09with anyone else.
03:14It's great today.
03:15I have great relationships with my family.
03:18I have great relationships with my mom and my dad.
03:21They don't drink anymore.
03:26Definitely, I'd say, because of my drinking, definitely affected the way you went.
03:33Definitely.
03:34Do you know what I mean?
03:35Go off maybe Friday, we'll come home Monday.
03:39Yeah.
03:39You know what I mean?
03:40Yeah.
03:41Because one of the memories, and it's in this room, it's in this kitchen.
03:43I'd be walking in that door.
03:45I remember I was a kid and you were asleep on the ground like after a night out.
03:49My version of an alcoholic is totally different to what you think is an alcoholic.
03:54Science.
03:54Science.
03:55Because it doesn't work.
03:56You told me I was an alcoholic, but I could blank the drink if I wanted it.
04:02Yeah.
04:02It's just like they're going to sessions having a good time.
04:05Blowing the brains, whatever.
04:06It's not always trauma related.
04:08It could be just about having a good time, but I think when those two things collide.
04:25That's what it was to me.
04:26And I said, I'll eat them alone.
04:28Hash is all right.
04:28It's all right, yeah.
04:29It's not.
04:31It's not.
04:32And then even at that as well, because I remember one night you came in when you were taxiing.
04:37And you found me with the tin foil and all of the stuff, but obviously you weren't familiar
04:41with those kinds of drugs.
04:42I didn't know what was going on, no.
04:43I told you it was hash oil.
04:44It was oblivious and all that type of thing, you know.
04:46I didn't know anything about that.
04:47Like, hash I knew about.
04:48Yeah.
04:49But as we smoke and heroin, I didn't know people had done that, you know.
04:52I knew people used to shoot up all the way.
04:55What's it make you feel like when you see that?
04:57I couldn't believe that you were.
04:59Even when I looked like this, I used to try to come down and prove myself of how well
05:04I was.
05:04And you made it worse.
05:05And I'd fall asleep.
05:06On this table, I'd be falling asleep.
05:08Yeah, I remember that.
05:09That's, that's, that's.
05:09Definitely remember them things like that, you know.
05:12You didn't see that, was it?
05:14No, I've never seen that one.
05:15Not the vodka.
05:16And Bailey's.
05:17No, I've never seen that.
05:19That's a crazy photo there, actually.
05:21That's me in Amsterdam actually smoking heroin.
05:23Oh, good luck.
05:24It's hard to see.
05:24In the picture there, there's the light underneath.
05:26Yeah, yeah.
05:26Jesus.
05:28I'd come home from work.
05:30On the way home from work, I'd get a couple of bags of heroin.
05:33I'd have taken me methadone that morning just to take the edge off, probably a few tablets.
05:37But I'd come back and I'd get a shoulder of vodka and that off license.
05:40And then I would drive around this corner.
05:44And I always had me spot.
05:47Because obviously when you're smoking heroin in a car, you don't want anyone seeing you.
05:52You don't want the police seeing you, the guards seeing you specifically.
05:56But so I figured this would be my best spot.
06:01Right in at the bushes.
06:06Literally I used to use drugs to go into oblivion.
06:08Because when I was in oblivion and I wasn't conscious, I was not experiencing the emotional and psychological pain I
06:14was feeling.
06:15So it's fascinating to come back here and experience this and experience the sense of safety that this little place
06:25brought me.
06:28What we do know from research is that the earlier that adolescents and children start to use drinking drugs, the
06:36greater their risk of developing problems into adulthood with drug and alcohol dependence.
06:41The prefrontal cortex will take a hit from these drugs.
06:44So that can also have an effect on paying attention in school.
06:48It can have an effect on anxiety and depression and so on.
06:52So it can have a lot of a domino effect in terms of the wider functioning.
06:59Addiction is in all communities, all around the country.
07:02But research has consistently shown the link between drug related harm and deprivation.
07:07Senator Lynne Rowan is a long time community and drugs worker.
07:10In a community like this, many households on the one street are experiencing levels of trauma.
07:16It becomes an everyday thing and every wee thing.
07:18And then if there's not something instantly happening, you're worrying about what's going to happen.
07:22And when will it happen next?
07:24And you just don't ever get to recover from it from one instance of something.
07:28You know, it's a constant.
07:29It's a constant thing.
07:31People always say, oh, but there's addiction in every community.
07:34Right.
07:34And it's like a kind of bothers me because I'm like, yeah, right.
07:37But you need to differentiate here.
07:39You know how addiction manifests in communities that have been completely let down is very different than addiction that is
07:47experienced in other communities.
07:48It's the exception, not the norm. Do you know what I mean?
07:52And so in communities like this, you begin to count who hasn't ended up maybe using substances rather than being
07:57able to point to the one house where somebody has experienced addiction.
08:00For younger kids in areas that would be more affluent and addiction is there, they wouldn't be feeling that kind
08:06of intense and enduring fear that that's around.
08:09Drugs for some people stop them actually taking their own lives.
08:13You know, I work with many people and have over the years who said that if it wasn't for them
08:16actually using a substance to actually numb the emotional pain they were in, they wouldn't be even on the earth.
08:22And then they have to grapple later on with trying to remove the drug then. Do you know what I
08:27mean?
08:27And so the thing that helped them in the beginning becomes the thing then that they have to try and
08:30escape from.
08:36Using substances to self-medicate trauma is something I can really relate to. Getting that insight is key to successful
08:42recovery.
08:44It's going to be a serious conversation, yeah? So what causes addiction?
08:49Terence Power is one half of the Talking Bollocks podcast, which has championed honest conversations about addiction and recovery, including
08:56his own and his mother, Rachel's.
08:59Do you want a cup of tea?
09:00No, I don't drink tea.
09:02Don't drink tea?
09:03Cappuccinos are $1.50 in Deltz.
09:06No, they're lattes.
09:08Ah, hell you are.
09:10$1.50 in Deltz, you can't go wrong.
09:13I grew up in Deltz S3 flats in the North NSE, in Dublin.
09:18I would describe my childhood as chaos.
09:22My mother was an alcoholic from as early as I can remember.
09:25But after my dad died, things spiraled.
09:28Addicted to drugs, tablets, cocaine.
09:32In the period where I started using, my mother had got sober.
09:37I remember, like, I would never listen to advice from her.
09:40Like, who were you to tell me that I shouldn't use or I shouldn't drink?
09:45At the time, I would have held a lot of, probably, hatred's probably a strong word, but a lot of
09:51resentment towards my ma for the childhood that we had.
09:55But it's only as I got older and I learned more about life and trauma and things like that.
10:00And I know what my ma went through in life.
10:02She was sexually abused as a kid.
10:20What I'd ask you is, why do you think that addiction is generational so it gets passed down?
10:32Well, my father was from Tipperavia and he was in the letterfach and he was in all them homes.
10:39So then, when he came to Dublin, then when he was in age, I don't know, he ended up in
10:44Mount Joy.
10:45And then he ended up meeting my mum.
10:47I got introduced then to my dad's friends and then things happened to me.
10:51So it was just rolled on.
10:54Whenever you're telling me a story about growing up and you're saying, so there was me and whoever, whoever.
11:00Yeah.
11:00Yeah, like, but she's dead, she's dead, she's not here.
11:04And it's like, how crazy is it that most of us our friends are dead?
11:08Yeah.
11:09Through drinking drugs.
11:10Yeah.
11:11It's so sad.
11:13Me and me ma both got sober and this is where we are now.
11:18And where we are now doesn't have to be financially secure forever and a mansion and all that.
11:24It just means we're both sober and we love each other and we're best friends.
11:28when that could have easily been different.
11:35Lou break, yeah?
11:37No pressure now, son.
11:42How are you, lads?
11:43What's the crack?
11:44What time to call this?
11:46The lads have had hundreds of conversations with people in recovery from all sorts of addictions.
11:54Substance addiction, gambling addiction and even sex addiction,
11:57that's come up on our podcast.
11:59Addiction is still addiction, do you know what I mean?
12:00Yeah.
12:00I stopped drinking when I was a teenager and people are looking at you like you have two heads.
12:03What do you mean you don't drink?
12:05What's wrong?
12:05What's wrong?
12:06What's wrong with you?
12:07And I'm like, lads, it's Tuesday and we're sitting in a pub.
12:10Yeah.
12:11And I'm the one who has the problem.
12:12Yeah.
12:13Mad, isn't it?
12:14I always found that you need an excuse in Ireland not to drink, but you don't need an excuse to
12:18drink.
12:18To drink, yeah.
12:18So it's like, will we go to pub?
12:20Pub what?
12:21What else are we going to do?
12:22Young lads in general, but especially from certain areas where you have to have that coat of armour on to
12:26protect yourself.
12:27Like all of a sudden you're not going to talk about feelings.
12:30You're not going to even admit.
12:31I never admitted I had weak feelings.
12:34I've seen it as a weakness.
12:35You're not going to bring one of the lads when you're 16, 17 and say, oh, look, I'm feeling it.
12:40It's just not, it wasn't one of them things.
12:41Yeah.
12:42It wasn't spoken about.
12:43You know, you just struggled.
12:44You just went through it and you think, oh, everybody must be like this.
12:47It's grand.
12:47I think it's a struggle for loads of young men.
12:49It's like, what, what is it to be a young man these days?
12:52Like, do you show feelings?
12:53Because that's sort of what people are telling us to do, but then you have to be strong.
12:56Like, I think there's a lot of confusion of where you have to be in the world.
12:59You should be encouraging men to express themselves.
13:01100%.
13:02But obviously you need to tell them what's right and what's wrong as well rather than just suppressing them and
13:06just pulling the plug out and be like, no, you can't do that.
13:08Because then again, you go back into your shell and then we start the cycle all over again.
13:12You're insecure.
13:13You can't talk.
13:14You can't express yourself.
13:16Substances then help you feel warm and help you feel part of yourself.
13:19Then you'll never know who we could pick out of these working class areas.
13:22They could go on and become a doctor or a solicitor or a politician or whatever.
13:26Like, you have a PhD, do you know what I mean?
13:28Yeah.
13:2815 years ago, if someone was to pull you off the street and said, this fella's going to be, going
13:32to have a doctorate.
13:34What would you say about that?
13:35They'd laugh at you.
13:36They'd laugh, yeah.
13:36Well, like, this is what we need to nourish people and understand.
13:40They're just a product of their environment.
13:50The rates of overdose in Ireland are high, both fatal and non-fatal.
13:55And the non-fatal overdose is literally having an overdose and not dying from it.
14:01But it's a massive contributing factor to actually having an overdose that will kill you.
14:05Because we know that, you know, multiple overdoses will result in fatalities.
14:11It's a big deal.
14:19Sometimes the earliest part of recovery is survival.
14:22In Anna Liffey Drug Project, John and Dawn are preparing for their outreach,
14:26including training people in giving nalaxone, an overdose reversal drug.
14:31Hey, how's it going?
14:32Hi, how are you?
14:33It's really good.
14:34Nice to meet you.
14:35Brian, John, lovely to meet you, John.
14:36Dawn's my name.
14:37Dawn, how are you?
14:38Nice to meet you, Brian.
14:38How are you?
14:39So these are our crack pipes and then our syringes, obviously.
14:44So this is what we'll be handing out to people as needed later.
14:47And we always carry nalaxone.
14:49And John will be giving that to people freely on the street tonight
14:52and like a crash training course as well.
14:55I come from, I suppose, an emergency first aid background, medic background.
14:59So that's kind of my, I suppose, the reason I want to get into it.
15:02And I'm an exotic myself, so I wanted to help, I suppose, people save themselves.
15:05So just say if someone has taken too much heroin, what does the nalaxone actually do?
15:11What it does is, this allows the nervous system to wake back up.
15:13Wake back up.
15:13So you're waking the body back up.
15:15So when you're shutting down, all your nervous system's shutting down, the organs are shutting down.
15:18The longer you leave that, the less likely chance you are to get someone to come around.
15:22If the rise are rolling to the back of the hill, there's a pure sign that they're on an opiate
15:25of some sort.
15:26Right.
15:26So I know I'm going to use that.
15:28So I'll go one in.
15:29Yeah.
15:30Then take it back out.
15:31That's it, you're done.
15:33Most of the time, we save lives when we use naloxone.
15:36Yes.
15:37But sometimes, unfortunately, you come across someone who's too far gone.
15:40It doesn't work, yes.
15:51So that's what you call it, you can't tell.
15:52Because you're trying your best to help someone, look.
15:54And that's all you can do, look.
16:06Tracy is on a methadone stabilization program and living in hostile accommodation.
16:10She is in the early stages of recovery.
16:13The girls were showing us a little bit of a demonstration.
16:16Yeah, I've done the training.
16:18Have you ever had to use it?
16:19No, no, not yet, not yet.
16:21But I'll always have it there.
16:22Yeah.
16:23Just in case.
16:24Save life.
16:25That's it, that's it.
16:26And then when you do it, when you do inject it, and you jump up.
16:29What did you do that for?
16:31I was on a lovely bus.
16:33And I get that.
16:34You know what I mean?
16:35Taking themselves to the edge.
16:37You wanted to be on the edge.
16:39Yeah, yeah.
16:39But little did you know, you're killing yourself there, bro.
16:41Yeah.
16:42You know what I mean?
16:42I often find that between men and women in recovery as well, is there aren't any other challenges
16:47you found within that?
16:48Relationships.
16:49Yeah.
16:49There were always drug relationships.
16:51Aye.
16:52And I was the one that I always used to have the supply.
16:55And if you haven't got that, you'll just...
16:57You won't be near you.
16:58God.
16:59Yeah, yeah.
17:00Right.
17:00So that's...
17:01I'm trying to keep my head sore, do you know what I mean?
17:04Yeah.
17:04Just focus on myself now for the moment.
17:08Wow.
17:08If you don't look after number one, who else is going to do it for you?
17:11It's ironic, isn't it?
17:12Yeah.
17:12Because addiction is a very selfish game.
17:14Yeah.
17:14But recovery has to be selfish as well.
17:16Yeah, yeah.
17:16You've got to look after yourself so you can look after other people.
17:18Yeah.
17:19Number one now.
17:20Yeah.
17:22The city centre can be a difficult environment for those in recovery.
17:26Do you know what the hardest thing I find in recovery is the fact that everybody smokes
17:31weight and that would have been my very first choice of drugs.
17:34Yeah, yeah.
17:35Not only that, when I'm walking around the corner from my gaff, like they're selling crack
17:41on the Lewis line, you know what I mean?
17:43So that'd be another one as well, yeah.
17:45How are you feeling about the future, like?
17:46Well, yeah, I'm going to go...
17:48I know that I want to go back to college and all, so I have...
17:51My plans are...
17:52Look, I'm going.
17:53I have to speak to my key worker now next week, so...
17:55She's going to make up a good plan with me.
17:59But my CV is the first thing.
18:01I think, like, a lot of people don't appreciate that when you begin your recovery journey,
18:07something that might seem like a small step from the outside is a massive step for someone
18:11to take.
18:12Yeah, yeah.
18:12But they're not congratulated on it because they're not clean.
18:15That's why...
18:15You're always going to be a junkie to them.
18:16That's the world, eh?
18:17That's the world, yeah.
18:18You know what I mean?
18:19Yeah.
18:20That's my opinion, eh?
18:21Which I come and live in a day in my shoes and I know all about it.
18:53We sometimes refer to drugs as hijacking the brain.
18:54It's easier to feel normal.
18:56So, if people can just understand that and just have a little bit of empathy and just
19:00realise it could be anybody that falls into that cycle of abuse.
19:09I heard a great line in recovery circles that addiction isn't a spectator sport.
19:14Eventually, the whole family get to play.
19:16And that means that the family members get burnt by the addiction.
19:20But what I've found is that recovery's the same.
19:23The whole family get to play on that as well.
19:25How's it going?
19:26Looking forward to it?
19:26All right.
19:27The unfortunate reality is that not all recovery is successful.
19:31Me and my brothers and sister are going on a hike with my best friend Gar and his sisters
19:35to remember their brother Jason, a friend of mine who died after decades of addiction.
19:41I'm in my 40s now and Jason was touching 50 when he passed.
19:45Still didn't get answers as to what drove Jason to become an addict.
19:49To celebrate Jason, the hike, it's something that we did after my brother passed,
19:53myself, my sisters and our extended family.
20:00Hello, good morning.
20:02Hello again, how are you?
20:04Hello.
20:05Sorry.
20:08I know exactly where I was standing, the phone call.
20:13I was in my kitchen and my sister, my younger sister called me.
20:18I knew, I saw the phone ringing and I knew it was bad news.
20:22But to finally get that call, just devastation, you know, dropped to my knees.
20:34And then just left to go and see him.
20:39It's gorgeous here, isn't it?
20:41Fabulous.
20:43Oh, my God.
20:45Look at that.
20:50We'll stop here for a bit.
20:51Daddy.
20:53Daddy.
20:54Yeah.
20:56Jason was my big brother.
20:58Just nothing like a big brother, you know.
21:00He was all of our heroes.
21:01We all wanted to be like Jake.
21:01He was my hero.
21:03He used to always be trying to look out for me and saying,
21:05don't do this, don't do that.
21:06Even when he was in it, he was still trying to look out for me.
21:09I always remember that.
21:10I always remember that multiple times.
21:11There was a time he called, um, you, seeing me heading home.
21:22I was like, out of me.
21:25Out of it.
21:25And he called.
21:27To make sure you're all right?
21:29Yeah.
21:29To take me home.
21:33No way.
21:34Yeah.
21:35I was in bits.
21:36We often discuss when we do our monthly hikes, you know,
21:42at what point, why did he go back to that self-destruction
21:45after being so clean for so long?
21:47I don't know.
21:48I feel a little bit of, um, I'd say guilt that you couldn't,
21:53you couldn't get through to someone and help them, you know,
21:55help them through the addiction.
21:56We had the talks.
21:57I had talks to you where I thought I was getting through to you,
22:00wrote you an email, wrote my brother a letter.
22:02You know, you're thinking, putting it down in words,
22:04it's a kind of, it's something for someone to read and take away,
22:08but that doesn't even work.
22:09So you have to step away at some point.
22:12You have to pull yourself back.
22:13You're kind of left a bit of a shell of a person, I find.
22:16So I find, I think that the, um, doing the likes of this,
22:20getting together and having that little outlet is so important
22:23for family members too.
22:25Mm-hmm.
22:26100%.
22:26It tears families apart.
22:28Yeah.
22:29It's awesome.
22:29And you do, you, we've definitely all lost that spark.
22:33There is, we've definitely lost something, haven't we?
22:36Of course, yeah.
22:36You know, it's, you'll never be the same.
22:39It's just, it's crazy.
22:42You can only imagine how mom and dad are, you know?
22:44Yes.
22:46Impact so many, so many people, the ripple effect.
22:50His children needed our daddy.
22:52They were so vulnerable and, yeah.
22:57I suppose you have to let that anger go, though.
23:06In Cambridge, Professor Valerie Voon and her team
23:09are working on new ways to use science and technology
23:11to help people get into recovery and to stay in recovery.
23:15So this is a deep brain stimulation study.
23:18It's a multi-center study in the United Kingdom.
23:20This particular study, it's a deep brain stimulation study,
23:24and it involves, um, a neurosurgical procedure
23:27where we're attempting to stimulate and normalize abnormal brain rhythms.
23:33A large proportion of patients, even with abstinence, will relapse
23:39with alcohol, with opioids, with stimulants.
23:43This is very common.
23:45We're actually targeting and treating, attempting to treat
23:48that particular population, which has repeated relapses.
23:52So despite drug therapy, despite psychotherapy,
23:55they just have repeated relapses,
23:57and they account for a large proportion of the addiction population.
24:01Really, the ultimate goal for all of our research
24:04is really to ask, how can we develop newer therapies
24:09so people stop relapsing or they're able to kind of decrease
24:12the amount that they're taking?
24:15Valerie and her team have developed an app
24:17to help people change how their brains think about alcohol.
24:20You're going to see an alcohol image,
24:22and you're going to also see other images.
24:25And the key is that you're trying to avoid that alcohol image.
24:29You swipe away so it becomes smaller,
24:32whereas the other one,
24:33you're actually trying to bring it closer towards you.
24:35Okay.
24:36And what happens is there are more alcoholic images
24:38than non-alcoholic images,
24:39because we're trying to retrain participants' approach biases
24:42towards the alcoholic images.
24:44My competitive nature is really getting in the way here.
24:49Is there a bias on competitiveness?
24:52I want to win.
24:53Competition is actually useful,
24:55so some of the stuff with the patient groups,
24:57they set up people in teams and encourage them to use the app and compete,
25:02and it just promoted engagement.
25:04So it helped people use it more often
25:08and actually buy into it a little bit more,
25:10because one of the problems with online digital interventions like this
25:13is a lot of people find them boring,
25:15and a lot of people drop out.
25:16So any way in which you can make it more interesting is useful from a treatment perspective.
25:22The original studies were on people with alcohol use disorders,
25:26so in patients who were really strongly affected,
25:29and it really helped to decrease relapse rates.
25:32So I think for people who are highly motivated or people who have a goal of, let's say,
25:37abstinence as opposed to a slight reduction,
25:39this may be preferentially effective.
25:41Yeah, it's brilliant.
25:43I think the motivation piece really taps into, in my experience,
25:47people that in really deep addictions, if they have a really big drive to find freedom from that addiction,
25:54they are the people that tend to find recovery.
25:57So it really taps into those deeper addictions as well,
26:00into the results we find in that.
26:03Once you go into sustained remission, you should have the right to get back to life as normal.
26:09Why not?
26:09I mean, but I see it all the time, this idea that once an addict, always an addict perpetuates.
26:16And this is why people are very slow to disclose a history of addiction,
26:21and again, ties in with the overall societal stigmatisation of mental health and addiction.
26:31Tiglin Treatment Centre has a long-term, faith-based approach to recovery,
26:34with a focus on training and education.
26:37Research shows that giving those in recovery a sense of purpose is vital.
26:41Conor is one of Tiglin's graduates.
26:44It helped me so much, because I didn't have to hide who I was,
26:48and I didn't realise that I would be welcome to open arms.
26:50I didn't realise that I wouldn't be judged.
26:53How you doing?
26:54Hey, how's things?
26:55I'm going to get you.
26:55And I wasn't Conor the addict, or Conor the junkie, or Conor the alcohol.
27:00I was just Conor, who worked in the Rise of the Cough Cafe.
27:05I was just in a bad place.
27:07Couldn't have a relationship with meself, let alone a relationship with me family or anybody else.
27:11And I just went homeless.
27:14I would have sat at the centre and begged for money.
27:16As soon as I got enough money for my second bottle of vodka, I'd get it.
27:20And then I'd drink some of that, and I'd go looking for drugs.
27:25All I wanted to do was do it.
27:27I used to go to sleep and ask God just to take me.
27:34Conor, how are you?
27:36I'm meeting Conor and another Tiglin graduate, Brendan.
27:38How's it going, how are you?
27:39Good to meet you.
27:40Really good.
27:41I sometimes think that when you've been in the depths of despair, the comparison of the
27:46despair to where you are now makes the mundane for some people really a beautiful thing.
27:51Another way that it amplifies that, you know.
27:53Paying a bill.
27:54Who likes to pay bills?
27:56I love paying bills because I have the money to pay a bill.
27:58Yeah.
27:58It's like, that's brilliant to me.
28:00Not hiding the letters anymore.
28:02No.
28:02Head in the sand.
28:03Yeah, yeah.
28:04You know, that's precious.
28:06Going to the bank and there's actually money there.
28:08Sometimes I go to a banking machine these days and it's like a little memory skips in.
28:13Oh, it's like, oh, I know, it's okay.
28:15There's money in the bank.
28:16It's not going to be just gone or taken out by bills.
28:18It's your money.
28:19Yeah, yeah, yeah.
28:19You didn't scam anybody.
28:20You didn't rob it.
28:22You know?
28:22Yeah.
28:23Magical.
28:24Addiction is isolation.
28:26Yeah.
28:27You know what I mean?
28:27We could be around loads of people, but like we're isolated in our own head because
28:31they don't know the truth.
28:32They don't know the real us.
28:34The gambling addiction is everywhere.
28:37Like every small town in the country has a bookies or two or three in it.
28:41I was struggling with addiction kind of all of my twenties.
28:44It started off, I suppose, with gambling, progress, then to heroin and cocaine.
28:522021 was a rock bottom period of my life.
28:55I was contemplating suicide for many months.
28:58My addiction was hidden from mostly everyone, you know?
29:02And that was the hardest thing, the isolation.
29:04You know, the isolation in my own head of all these various points of addiction, you
29:09know, and not being able to share it.
29:16Tiglin offers you, like, the chance and enables you to go out into the community, to which
29:22me and Connor have done.
29:23Join the dance.
29:25We've done a dance thing for Tiglin, Strictly Come Dancing, and then we've continued it
29:29on.
29:29But you have to get out of your comfort zone.
29:33We've done the Strictly Come Dancing, and the best thing about it wasn't the dancing, it
29:39was the community.
29:40So we went to the dance Greystones classes after.
29:44Like, I find it hard sometimes even to say I dance, you know what I mean?
29:48Because there's so much more involved in it.
29:50But they tell me I'm getting better anyway, so I'd have to, like, believe them on that.
29:56Out of nothing has developed so many friendships, so many connections into the community, you
30:01know?
30:03The aim at the end of it is that you can walk out, and you can stand on your own
30:08two
30:08feet, and you can be confident about your past.
30:10You've come to a level of acceptance.
30:16I makes clothes because I was broken once.
30:19And I take the broken pieces of other powers, and I make it beautiful again.
30:26Because that's the way I was.
30:27I was broken and discarded, and God made me beautiful again.
30:31I never ever knew that I could be happy again.
30:38I never knew that I could be of use again and that I'd have no more secrets in my life.
30:48To be here right now today, walking, dancing, you know, here we are, me, you, Brendan, sober,
30:56living a fulfilled life, that's magical.
31:05If you look at a person who gets recovery, particularly anywhere between two years and five years,
31:13there's a physical transformation that happens.
31:16They become what we refer to in the field as better than well
31:20because they are more likely to be into physical health,
31:25they're more likely to be concerned what they're consuming in terms of food,
31:29more likely to be looking after their mental health.
31:31So they become, if you like, super healthy.
31:36Dean Duggan is a recent graduate of Kilmoyne Drug Treatment Centre.
31:40He's going back today to meet some of the staff and residents.
31:43Good to see you, man. See you. All good? All good.
31:47I had a lovely childhood. Loving mother and father, you know, hard-working father.
31:51My mother was part of the travelling community.
31:53I went off on that road of kind of selling and using to feed me habit.
31:58And I come in here. I was five weeks in and went over to the shopping centre that night.
32:01A couple of us were allowed over for a couple of hours and there was drugs on.
32:05One of the lads were out there getting drugs.
32:07When the thought of using was in my mind, I relapsed.
32:10Once the thought was in my mind, the obsession to use took over.
32:14Six of us used. We were all discharged the next morning.
32:18We are here because there's no refuge finally from ourselves.
32:22Until we confront ourselves in the eyes and hearts of others we are running.
32:25The morning when we were discharged, I brought one lad back to life,
32:28you know, at the back of Merchant's Key from an overdose.
32:31One poor lad who was dead within two weeks.
32:34Lovely, lovely man. You know, I was the only one to make it back out of the six of us.
32:39I was in the total for 15 months in total, linked in with Coolmine,
32:43and then I graduated.
32:45You know, it's a miracle. Healthy as a horse.
32:47I ran two marathons last year.
32:50Life is a million miles away from where it was.
32:54Hey, Dian. How are you? Great to meet you.
32:57Nice to meet you too. Keeping good?
32:58Yeah, keeping very well, thanks.
33:00I'll pull off a little bit at the end of that.
33:01Yeah.
33:03This was actually a huge part of my recovery as well.
33:05We were in detox, the polytunnels and just out with the animals
33:08just back to nature stuff.
33:10Yeah, same as me, yeah.
33:11I think they're just the basic blocks that you need,
33:14like the structure piece, connecting with other people,
33:17opening up on feelings for the first time.
33:19That was the hardest thing for me.
33:20Was it?
33:20I can talk about any topic you want, but not about myself.
33:23What's your addiction look like?
33:25Addiction at the end, towards the end, Brian, would have been mental health.
33:28I was destroyed with mental health, you know.
33:31Multiple diagnosis, you know, bipolar, paranoid schizophrenia.
33:35It was all drug-induced.
33:37I decided to come off the medication, cold turkey.
33:41You know, I strongly advised not to, but I did.
33:44And, yeah, I went through an awful number of months, you know,
33:47and I got myself in more trouble with the Garda, and I went to prison.
33:51My family have washed their hands on me at this stage.
33:54I had a choice, you know, change your life.
33:56I felt so bad I was going to end it.
33:58There was the kind of options I felt, you know.
34:01I felt suicide or change, and I decided to change, you know.
34:05You seem to have a sense of purpose about you today.
34:07What's going on in your life today?
34:09Yeah, I have a little baby.
34:11I could be here now any day.
34:12Amazing. First?
34:13Yeah, my first.
34:14No way.
34:14For years, Brian, I never thought I could have kids, you know, because of addiction.
34:19It's just that I'm so blessed, you know, now, and I'm so grateful.
34:22Yeah.
34:23I don't get every day perfect, but what I can do today is I can apologise.
34:26You know, I don't live the way I used to be.
34:28I'm definitely not the man that I used to be.
34:32I think there is real hope, and we really are starting to kind of crack the code of addiction with
34:38research.
34:39There are potentially technological solutions that might help us deal with addiction,
34:44whether that be, you know, therapy that's done using AI technologies that's very accessible and cheap for people,
34:50or other kind of apps.
34:52And then I think the other strand is, you know, the use of medications.
34:55So things like the Ozempics, you know, whether those kind of drugs will really help.
35:00There's certainly hope on the horizon, but I think fundamentally we have to start with knowledge and understanding,
35:06and that will be the basis for moving forward.
35:17I'm in London to meet Dr. Gabor Mate, a world expert on trauma and addiction.
35:23Gabor Mate has been a shining light for me in my recovery from addiction.
35:31Hi, Gabor.
35:32Hi, Brian.
35:32Absolutely.
35:33Amazing to see you.
35:34Nice to see you.
35:35Lovely to see you.
35:35Did you travel well?
35:37Arrived yesterday.
35:38Yesterday, yeah.
35:38You feeling rested?
35:40No.
35:41No?
35:42We'll do our best.
35:42We look after you.
35:43It'll take a couple of days.
35:44Really excited and looking forward to this.
35:46Yeah.
35:47Cheers.
35:47Thanks so much for taking the time.
35:48A pleasure.
35:49I've been hanging out with your book.
35:50Oh, have you?
35:52Amazing, amazing.
35:53A gripping read, anyway.
35:54Thank you so much.
35:55It means the world.
35:56It really does.
35:58I don't consider myself in recovery.
36:00I like to think of myself as recovered.
36:02Yeah.
36:03I don't have any cravings.
36:04I feel better than I've ever felt.
36:06So do you think it's possible to be recovered rather than in recovery?
36:12If I said no to your question, would that change your view of yourself?
36:17No.
36:18It would make me reflect because I deeply value your end.
36:20Yeah, yeah.
36:21But ultimately...
36:22No.
36:23Okay.
36:23So what's the difference with what I say?
36:24Yeah.
36:25So, I mean, you're a living example.
36:27Yeah.
36:27The question you asked, it's entirely possible.
36:30What does it mean when you recover something?
36:32To get it back.
36:33You get it back.
36:34Wow.
36:34Exactly.
36:35Yeah.
36:36What did you get back when you recovered?
36:38Your life, your sense of self, your authenticity.
36:40You've got it back yourself.
36:41Human, yeah.
36:42Okay.
36:42Which means that yourself, your true life, your true self was never damaged goods.
36:49It was never lost.
36:50Yeah.
36:50I mean, you lost sight of it.
36:52Yeah.
36:52But it never disappeared.
36:55You know, people say, I'm in recovery.
36:58It's used...
36:58Look, I don't want to criticize the language.
37:01Because it helps a lot of people to talk that way.
37:03But do I believe in it?
37:05Do I agree with them?
37:06No, I don't.
37:07I'm with you.
37:08So let me come back at this backwards a little bit.
37:13You had many addictions.
37:14You were drinking.
37:15You had the cocaine.
37:16You had the heroin.
37:17I don't know what you didn't have.
37:18Yeah.
37:19Tell us what the heroin did for you.
37:23It completely numbed the agitation, a quiet in the mind.
37:28Everything went soft, is how I'd explain it.
37:30And you talk about a warmth.
37:32A warmth.
37:33Yeah, a warmth.
37:34And safety.
37:35Yeah.
37:36Like a blanket.
37:36Right, exactly.
37:38Yeah.
37:39So the addiction wasn't your problem.
37:41Your problem was the lack of safety.
37:44The lack of inner warmth.
37:46The lack of a sense of belonging.
37:47The lack of peace.
37:49So my first point about addiction is that it's not a primary problem.
37:53It's not a disease.
37:54It's actually a solution to a problem.
37:57Yeah.
37:57Yeah.
37:57So the real question is, where did the problem come from?
38:00Did your parents own drinking?
38:02In your terror, you would sit there at the window while your brothers were sleeping, waiting
38:08for your parents to drive home, hoping that they'll make it home alive from their drinking.
38:12So terrible fear.
38:14Let me ask you this.
38:16Who did you talk to about those feelings?
38:19Nobody.
38:21Exactly.
38:21Yeah.
38:22That gives us the message that, kid, you're all alone.
38:27You're on your own.
38:30You're on your own.
38:31And that creates coldness.
38:33Yeah.
38:34Anxiety.
38:35Fear.
38:36And then the opiate comes along and says, oh, now, Brian, now you're safe.
38:41Yeah.
38:41Now you're warm.
38:42And parent and infant are looking into each other's eyes and are really connected.
38:48They both have endorphins, natural opiates flowing in their brains.
38:53Okay.
38:54So when the opiate comes along later, the methadone or the heroin that you did is giving
39:00you what you should have had in the first place.
39:02The feeling that I needed.
39:05Yeah.
39:05The feeling you needed, yeah.
39:07Yeah.
39:07Wow.
39:09That's your biggest trauma.
39:11Okay.
39:11Is how alone you were.
39:13Okay.
39:14So the pain and the fear are not the trauma itself.
39:17It's the being alone with it that creates the trauma.
39:20Yeah.
39:21I've never looked at it that way before.
39:23That's actually had to land for me quite heavy, yeah.
39:26Yeah.
39:27Yeah.
39:30It's difficult there.
39:32You were just one representation of a multi-generational family dynamic of trauma and addiction.
39:42So to have isolated you out and say, you've got this problem, actually the whole family
39:49system's got the problem.
39:50Yeah.
39:50So anybody who wants to help somebody else, they need to recognize that they're part of
39:56the issue.
39:57Yeah.
39:57Yeah.
39:58As much as the identified patient.
40:05If you are predisposed to addiction, you have genetic vulnerability or you have a trauma
40:10experience that has led you to become addicted.
40:13Those predisposing factors may wane somewhat.
40:17But if it's genetics, it's likely that they will continue lifelong.
40:20You don't cure addiction, you manage addiction in the long term.
40:23Just like blood pressure, epilepsy, diabetes.
40:27You don't cure it.
40:28You manage it over the long term.
40:30So again, addiction is no different there.
40:37In the Rotunda, Dean's much-longed-for baby has arrived.
40:40He was born two days ago and they named Dean after me.
40:45I'm just so grateful.
40:46You know, I'm over the moon.
40:48Yeah.
40:49The love I have for him.
40:51I think that he'll give me the driving force, you know, to keep going to what I'm doing
40:54in recovery.
40:55Also in college, you know, for a better future for him and for my partner.
40:59You know, it's a different way I live today.
41:01And that helps.
41:02If someone would have told me a number of years ago that if you could just talk to somebody,
41:07get it off your chest, explain where you're at a number of times, that that would help me.
41:11I'd laugh at you.
41:12Like, you know, I didn't understand the power of it, which I learned in Coomohinda by offloading,
41:16talking about it, you know, and through time, the awareness I have with myself,
41:22to know when I'm off, to know when things are bothering me, to know when I'm upset,
41:26and being able to say where I'm at, you know, that's the most important thing for me,
41:30is being able to honestly share where I'm at.
41:35I love you.
41:43I've organised a live charity event at The Helix,
41:46telling my story of addiction and recovery.
41:48The brilliant Clendalkan Recovery Choir are performing.
41:51..
41:58..
41:59..
41:59..
41:59..
42:02..
42:03..
42:30When I heard of the recovery part, I just thought it was a great idea.
42:32I was just sitting here listening to the rehearsal and there was just this sense of joy and it's like
42:36the opposite of bloody addiction.
42:37Why is getting out of the choir?
42:38They're getting natural endorphins, so like a lot of people in addiction, that's what they're chasing.
42:43They're chasing happiness, they're chasing, you know, the want of being involved, wanting to be in a family, wanting love
42:49and care.
42:50That's what we're getting in the choir.
42:51It's just amazing to watch.
42:52It's an amazing thing as well because it's not like you don't walk in and you're telling anybody about what
42:56you're recovering from or anything.
42:58Nobody knows.
42:58There's people, the family members, people that work in the services, people that are going through a recovery journey themselves
43:05and nobody asks that.
43:07I think one of the hardest things is when you have lots of people around you, but you still feel
43:11lonely.
43:12Yeah. Empty.
43:13You know, and that's for everybody, not just people in recovery or people that's been in addiction or it's for
43:18everybody, anybody out there.
43:20And that's, there's times I'd run to the choir to get out of the head.
43:24I'd love to join up, but I'm a terrible singer and a dancer, so I can't even do that.
43:28Ryan Penny's in the choir. We've made it.
43:31There's a lot of mixed emotions for me tonight.
43:34It's exciting. It's nerve-wracking.
43:38I have so many loved ones coming to tonight's event as well. My parent will be here, my family extended
43:44relations, but my mum and dad will be here.
43:47And my mum, it's her first time to ever hear me speak live. So, it'll be quite emotional, I have
43:53to say.
43:54What's up? What are you, what are you doing here, Mr. Craig Gold?
43:59The reason he is so well today is because of the family support and we have each other's back.
44:05I feel like if we didn't have that, things could have been quite different for him.
44:09That's it, one more.
44:10My mum is so proud of Brian. She is very, very proud of what he's overcome.
44:15It's hard for her to hear the story. It's hard for her to relive that and to replay that, you
44:21know, and to hear Brian tell that story.
44:22So, we're all really delighted that she came here tonight.
44:32Hey, Brezzy. How's it going? Thanks a lot. We're in the Helix here now, getting set for the night.
44:36But here, really appreciate the support. You're always there for me since the start. I really appreciate it.
44:42All the best. Bye-bye.
44:48Hey, Gavin. How are you? Thanks so much for the wonderful message of support. Really, really appreciate it.
44:54It's so great to have so many people in recovery here as well. It's terrible for the bar, but it's
44:59great for everybody.
45:11Thanks for supporting it.
45:18I consider myself recovered.
45:20I actually consider myself who used drugs because of emotional and psychological pain, but I don't have that pain anymore.
45:28I've gotten to the root cause of my trauma.
45:32Anxiety crippled me. It was my kryptonite, but anxiety today is something I enjoy.
45:37It's become my friend. It has taught me to navigate so many things in life.
45:42Because my belief today is that the challenges in life are not the things we need to avoid.
45:48That's what teaches us to grow.
45:51I was so disconnected with myself and so broken from addiction that even my family, they had to pull away
45:58to an extent.
45:59Because anyone that came into my orbit felt the pain of my addiction.
46:03But even when they tried to pull away, they couldn't because they kept on trying to support me all of
46:08the way.
46:12And that is, that is the nature of addiction.
46:17It can be really, really challenging.
46:32Take five. I think I will. I'll take two minutes.
46:35That's what I'm going to do, guys. Give me two minutes.
46:41Can you just give us a sec, give us a sec, give us a sec. Yeah, yeah.
46:43Should I go to the corner and just take a sec? Yeah. Cheers.
46:51Excuse me, this is going to help.
47:02Look at this community, wow.
47:07Thank you, thank you.
47:14Wow, guys, thanks so much.
47:16I actually just done all that for a stand ovation because I've never gotten one before.
47:21And it worked.
47:25I don't know whether I was having the family there. It was much more emotionally evoking.
47:30And the brain just shut off.
47:32I was nearly just expecting that all the run smelled.
47:35I'm perfect, to an extent.
47:38So there's a lesson in that as well. Perfection doesn't exist.
47:53I'm not bulletproof because if something happened in my life where anxiety reared its ugly head, I would struggle with
48:02those challenges.
48:02So for me, it's about putting the action in to keep myself in a very strong mindset, emotionally, socially, physically
48:12and mentally, so I never go back to that space.
48:16I mean, you look out of everybody today, the energy, the vibe, the emotions, the connection with other people.
48:22This is what recovery is about.
48:23And there's so much hope.
48:26There's so much potential in people when they find recovery.
48:32It's about the family and the people around that.
48:35There's a ripple effect.
48:36And all of a sudden, everybody around those people are recovering too.
48:41And I think that's the essence of what recovery is about.
48:44It really is a beautiful thing.
48:46An absolutely incredible life is possible.
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