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00:00THE CITY IN BRAZIL
00:00THE CITY IN BRAZIL
00:00THE CITY IN BRAZIL
00:08After World War II,
00:09the peoples of Yugoslavia
00:11lived in peace under the grip
00:13of an authoritarian leader, Tito.
00:19When Tito died in 1980,
00:22the regime began to crumble
00:24and a new generation
00:26of leaders used nationalism
00:28to win hearts and minds
00:30of their people.
00:31You grew up in a society
00:33where your neighbors are different religion
00:35and you didn't see them like enemies.
00:39Now suddenly you have this,
00:41you know, parties coming around
00:42talking that your neighbor
00:44is an enemy, that you need to be
00:46Watching very carefully.
00:50In this climate of fear,
00:52Slobodan Milosevic cast himself
00:54as a defender of the Serbs.
00:57And in 1989,
00:59he became president of Serbia.
01:01I don't think he believed in nationalism.
01:03He used nationalism
01:04to one end and one and only
01:06to keep Slobodan Milosevic
01:08in power.
01:10And if you foster fear with the other,
01:12it's an incitement to violence
01:13and then violence comes very quickly.
01:16When war broke out in Bosnia,
01:18Milosevic supported the Bosnian Serbs
01:21whose army led by Karadzic
01:23and Mladic committed genocide
01:25in Srebrenica.
01:33But he was left unpunished.
01:35in 1998,
01:37Milosevic sent his troops to Kosovo
01:39and another massacre unfolded.
01:45He became the first head of state
01:47to be tried for war crimes.
01:49The start of a new era
01:50for international justice.
02:16I was born in a small town
02:20in Kosovo.
02:21There was a small number of Serbian families
02:25so the majority of the population
02:27were Albanians.
02:28But you could feel the tension.
02:33It's good that it's Sunday.
02:36So on Saturday,
02:37For example, it's market day.
02:38And it gets really busy.
02:41I like it when I'm here.
02:46This is the school
02:48where I was meant to go
02:49when I started school.
02:51Unfortunately, then the school
02:52was taken away
02:52so we were not allowed.
02:54We were Albanians.
02:55It was only Serbian kids
02:57that were allowed
02:57to come into the school.
03:01After my father was thrown out of work
03:03and things were getting bad,
03:06I think my parents decided
03:08to leave the country
03:09to have a better life for us.
03:13They decided to move to Sweden.
03:15They already had
03:16Family members there.
03:17But then unfortunately
03:18We were sent back.
03:21We were not considered
03:22as refugees at that point
03:24because things haven't been
03:26as bad, for example,
03:28as what was happening
03:28in Bosnia.
03:31Since the breakup of Yugoslavia,
03:33the Serbian province of Kosovo
03:36It had been a disputed region.
03:37of the Soviet Union.
03:38Its population,
03:40made up of 90% Albanians,
03:42I wanted independence.
03:44But Milosevic reacted
03:45with an iron fist
03:47and took away
03:48most of their rights.
03:49For him,
03:51Kosovo belonged to Serbia.
03:55In the mid-90s,
03:57the Albanians formed
03:58a liberation army
03:59and Milosevic sits in his troops
04:01to fight them.
04:03At the end of 1998,
04:06The war in Kosovo began.
04:09I remember rows of tanks
04:13entering the town
04:14and literally the house
04:15It's just really shaking.
04:18And especially knowing
04:20what was happening
04:21in other parts of Yugoslavia,
04:22my family must have really
04:23I've been so worried
04:25of where things
04:27were going to lead to.
04:29But for me,
04:30It was very difficult.
04:31to think that something
04:32like that could happen
04:33to my family.
04:34You sort of see it happening
04:36and you see that it's possible,
04:38But you think that's just
04:39something like that
04:41to happen to my family
04:42It's simply impossible.
04:48Initially, all I could cover
04:50were refugees coming
04:51into northern Albania.
04:54You see huge numbers
04:56of refugees,
04:57often wounded,
04:58that they've been shot
04:59by the Serbs,
05:00women carrying their children,
05:02people who are deeply,
05:04deeply frightened.
05:07But you're no longer
05:08I was surprised by it.
05:10And what makes it worse,
05:11to my mind,
05:12was that you've been warning
05:14that this was going
05:14to happen since 1991
05:17And that nobody did anything.
05:26Inside Kosovo,
05:27Serbian troops were targeting
05:29the Albanian population,
05:31including unarmed civilians.
05:36The massacres were a stark reminder
05:38of the ethnic cleansing
05:39that had taken place in Bosnia
05:41only a few years earlier.
05:43But this time,
05:44the international community
05:46did not want to stand idly by.
05:51The aggressive nationalism
05:53of Mr. Milosevic,
05:54rooted in the 30s,
05:55not in the 90s,
05:56of European politics,
06:00must be stopped
06:02and will be stopped.
06:03I would just like to remind
06:04President Milosevic
06:06that NATO stands ready
06:08to take whatever measures
06:09are necessary.
06:11Thank you.
06:13I remember watching the news
06:15and the family being together
06:17and I remember
06:19they were talking about
06:20the NATO intervention.
06:22And we really thought,
06:24I remember thinking
06:25that day that happens,
06:27the next day we're going
06:28to be free.
06:29That's how I saw it.
06:35in March 1999,
06:38NATO launched airstrikes
06:39on Serbia
06:40to force Milosevic
06:42to withdraw his troops
06:43from Kosovo.
06:55The night of the 24th of March,
07:00when the bombing started,
07:02Things got worse.
07:04There was a lot more
07:05Serbian military presence
07:07around the town.
07:09my family decided that the men
07:11would leave the house.
07:13So they were around town,
07:16But they were hiding.
07:17And I remember that it was said
07:20that because when the soldiers
07:21are coming in,
07:22They're taking the men
07:23and they're killing all the men.
07:24So I guess they must have thought
07:26that just being the women
07:28and the children,
07:28We would be safe.
07:31Four days later,
07:33It was March 28th.
07:36It was a Sunday.
07:38Police, army vehicle stopped
07:40in front of the house.
07:43We could see them entering
07:44other neighbors' houses.
07:47And we really could see,
07:49You know, they were like,
07:50you know, smashing things
07:52And shouting and breaking.
07:54And, you know,
07:55we thought they would take us out
07:57just like they were doing
07:58with everyone else.
08:01When they entered,
08:02they took us behind the,
08:05in one of our neighbors' garden
08:07behind the house.
08:09One of the soldiers pushed my auntie,
08:13shot her in the back.
08:16And then my cousin started crying.
08:20By the time I looked at them,
08:22He already changed his gun.
08:24and started shooting at us.
08:28They took two rounds.
08:33The second time was because
08:35someone couldn't breathe
08:36and were making a noise.
08:39So they shot again.
08:41And then after some time they,
08:45it was quiet,
08:47so they must have left.
08:53So we entered this way,
08:55and the house used to be here.
08:57And this tree used to be very small
09:01during that time.
09:06So these are actually, um,
09:09still the holes from the bullets.
09:13that you could see them.
09:20So on that day,
09:22I lost my mother.
09:25Sila,
09:26and I lost my two brothers,
09:29Spand and Spatim.
09:30I lost my cousin, Nora.
09:32So out of 21 people,
09:36only my four cousins and myself survived.
09:40It's only the five of us.
09:498,000 Albanian civilians died in Kosovo.
09:53In May 1999,
09:56Milosevic was charged with war crimes.
09:59On May 22nd,
10:02I presented an indictment for confirmation
10:05against Slobodan Milosevic
10:07and four others,
10:09charging them with crimes against humanity,
10:12specifically murder,
10:15deportation and persecutions
10:17and with violations of the laws
10:19and customs of war.
10:25But as long as Milosevic stayed in power,
10:28arresting him was not possible.
10:31The opportunity came when he lost
10:33the presidential election in 2000.
10:39Milosevic refused to concede defeat
10:41until an angry mob stormed the parliament
10:44In protest.
10:48In June 2001,
10:50Milosevic was extradited to The Hague
10:53and charged with war crimes committed
10:55in Kosovo, Croatia, and Bosnia.
10:59One of the longest and most important trials
11:02in the history of justice was about to begin.
11:09The arrest of Slobodan Milosevic was really momentous.
11:15It galvanized the office of the prosecutor.
11:20The stakes were higher.
11:23And maybe the credibility of the IC2Is
11:28and institution was more at play.
11:32We really had to show that we knew what we were about then.
11:46Today, as never before, we see international justice in action.
11:53This court, and this trial in particular,
11:58gives the most powerful demonstration
12:00that no one is above the law
12:04or beyond the reach of international justice.
12:07The crime of genocide.
12:10crimes against humanity
12:12affect all of us throughout the world.
12:18The accused, as of course is obvious, is charged in respect of these events.
12:24The issue is, or maybe,
12:27did he know they were happening?
12:31Of course he did.
12:35He must not have known.
12:37And we may find in the case of this accused,
12:41little or no expression of regret
12:46for what was happening to the victims of these conflicts.
12:53Milosevic was a very interesting human being to watch.
12:57He treated the court with as near insolence as he could.
13:03The judges, for reasons that I simply do not understand,
13:07started off by allowing him to sit.
13:10So, the rest of us had to stand to address the court,
13:14to lead a witness in evidence, to cross-examine.
13:17And was there any reason why the accused should not?
13:20The accuser, wanting to be his own counselor, should not do that?
13:24None.
13:25But he was allowed to sit and lounge and look.
13:31Mr. Milosevic, I see that you are not represented by counsel today.
13:39Now, these proceedings will be long and complex.
13:43Do you want some time to consider now whether you wish to be represented?
13:52I consider this court false court and indictments false indictments,
13:59so I have no need to appoint counsel to illegal organ.
14:05Now, do you want to have the indictment read out or not?
14:12That's your problem.
14:15People like slobanem and non-sufficient.
14:18These are people in power who like being in the spotlight,
14:21who like being in front of the camera,
14:23and being able to present themselves,
14:26and make a case to their own supporters.
14:29In this first attempt, after seven months, I will speak before the public.
14:37The Americans go across the country to fight against terrorism in Afghanistan,
14:48on the opposite end of all.
14:52And that's what I think is logical and normal.
14:56And here, the fight against terrorism in the heart of my country,
15:01in my house, it is considered murder.
15:10It's really interesting these processes,
15:12because of course, even though he's the mastermind of everything that happened,
15:18that he wasn't.
15:21But yet, there are still aspects of respecting human rights,
15:29and the right to defend yourself, and so on.
15:34And I just felt that the whole process,
15:39unfortunately, again, it gave him some power in terms of,
15:42even again, how he treated the victims there when he was questioning them.
15:47We needed to hear them.
15:58Why was that?
16:03Zen,
16:03I didn't say he had to end up the camp.
16:06I couldn't stay right now.
16:09I'm done with that camptop.
16:12and shtepis nën shkallet and kati të par.
16:16Kada ste pripremili ovo skloni shte o kome govoriti?
16:20Saçte ga ponovo pomeno?
16:23I tregoj se sfarven sregimi ishte.
16:26Dire em i dire, muar njete pi nga dhoma,
16:31të cilin e kishim rezerv,
16:34and shtroj posht se fëmija si fëmij frigohet
16:37dhe me ndonë se ndoçta nën shkallet do të kjetë më mirë.
16:41Nisam razumeo da se o take radi, jer ste govorili o skloništu,
16:45pisali ste o skloništu.
16:47Gospodjo Hajrizi, vi ste intelektualka, vaš muž je bio intelektualas.
16:54From there I saw svesni koe je gurno o građane Kosovo vrat
16:58koji je proizojao ove tragične doveđaja?
17:03As an advocate, he was hopeless,
17:05because he couldn't resist the temptation
17:10to cross-examine everyone.
17:12The effect of all that was terrible on him
17:17because it showed him to be actually quite a nasty person.
17:19Mr. Milosevic, if you have no questions for this witness,
17:24then that will be understood
17:27But of course, if you want to challenge her evidence
17:30about how she lost her husband and four children,
17:35You can do so.
17:39An advocate appearing for him
17:41could have cast him as a statesman
17:43and then say, but don't bother
17:45with the evidence about the crimes.
17:47We don't want to cause
17:49these unhappy people to come
17:51and have to give evidence
17:52of the terrible things that happened to them
17:55and then just focus on
17:57what evidence of connection
17:59could be shown
18:00between those crimes and Milosevic.
18:04If any advocate had done that,
18:06we would have been in much,
18:08much more difficult than we were
18:10because we didn't necessarily
18:12at the beginning of the trial
18:13have that much connecting evidence.
18:16Mr. Van Linden,
18:19you say in article 3,
18:22I interviewed him with Slobodan Milosevic,
18:25and in that interview,
18:26He was deeply criticized.
18:27The Albanians in Kosovo.
18:29Do you think
18:31the Albanian separatists in Kosovo
18:34or the Albanian terrorists in Kosovo,
18:36and not the Albanians in Kosovo?
18:37As I remember it,
18:39it was a comment about the Albanians per se.
18:42You said that Kosovo was Serb,
18:44that it would always remain Serb.
18:47You just mentioned the Albanians as a whole.
18:51My first experience
18:53when I finally sat there
18:54in that chair,
18:56I now call it
18:56the loneliest chair on earth.
18:59You're on your own,
19:01you've got to rely on your memory,
19:04and you are asked questions,
19:05and you have to answer immediately.
19:09For those victim witnesses,
19:11it was a very different experience
19:13than it was for people like myself.
19:15I didn't see my own mother.
19:18father, child being killed,
19:21and then being flown
19:22into a completely new world,
19:25the world of a court in The Hague,
19:28and being asked to describe
19:30The worst day of my life.
19:40More than 5,000 witnesses
19:42testified on the front of the war crimes
19:44court.
19:46Among them were politicians,
19:48soldiers,
19:49foreign observers.
19:52The vast majority were those
19:54who survived violence during the war,
19:57victims of rape,
19:58torture,
19:59genocide.
20:19When I enter the memorial now,
20:21my feet feel like someone else's feet.
20:24My legs can no longer carry me.
20:28Putting your child into a grave
20:30is something that destroys you.
20:33Your soul dies.
20:35Everything dies.
20:42They called me from the Hague court.
20:46They asked if I would agree to testify,
20:49And I said yes.
20:51I didn't hesitate.
20:55I had nothing to lose in my life,
20:57so I wanted at least
20:58to be helpful to somebody.
21:08I was a little surprised
21:12when I got in the courtroom
21:14and I saw that everything
21:15had been photographed,
21:16every stone from Podočari,
21:19Srebrenica,
21:20Bosnia.
21:21I asked the prosecutor,
21:24why are you inviting us
21:25to the Hague tribunal
21:26if you already know everything?
21:31He explained
21:32they could all be fake photographs.
21:35So without witnesses,
21:37There is no verdict.
21:40One of our most wonderful witnesses
21:43was Mirsada Maligic,
21:45who lost all the males
21:46in her immediate family.
21:48What happened?
21:49and her testimony
21:50didn't quite finish
21:51on a Friday afternoon.
21:53And Judge Rodriguez,
21:56kind soul that he had said,
21:57well, madam,
22:00I'm sorry we weren't able to finish,
22:02but we will finish Monday morning,
22:04and I suggest that you go out
22:06and see this wonderful town,
22:08rest up,
22:08And we'll finish on Monday.
22:10And so she came in,
22:11she finished on Monday,
22:13and the judge asked her,
22:14Do you have anything?
22:14What do you want to say to the court?
22:16And she said,
22:18Well, yes, yes,
22:18your honor,
22:19I do,
22:20And I wanted to tell you,
22:22I took you up on your suggestion
22:23to go see The Hague.
22:25And what struck me the most
22:27was a statue
22:28of a Dutch woman,
22:30the wife of a seafaring man
22:32that she was waiting for
22:33by the sea.
22:34and she said that she and the other women
22:38that lost their family
22:39related to that completely
22:41because they viewed themselves
22:44as standing outside the woods
22:46of Bosnia,
22:47where their men disappeared,
22:49waiting for their men to return,
22:50knowing that they would never return.
22:55So this particular
22:59woman in this wonderful Dutch statue
23:03He meant the whole world to her.
23:07And there was not a dry eye in the house
23:10after that testimony.
23:12Madame Maladzic,
23:14is-ce que vous avez quelque chose
23:16to declare
23:17qui n'a pas,
23:18That's when I come to the opportunity
23:20direct
23:21in response to these questions?
23:23You may save the main maintenance,
23:25Madame Maladzic?
23:25Yes, I know you
23:28to all,
23:28Je vous remercie.
23:31Je suis de retourée ici.
23:33Je vous languid au plus loin d'étranger.
23:40Je me souviens.
23:44Je vous remercie.
23:45c'est un peu comme un rêve.
23:51It's very important
23:55It is very important.
23:56to have that recognition
23:57What you've been through.
24:01It's quite
24:03An exciting experience.
24:05Do you have the
24:07perpetuators there, and they need
24:09They need to feel it, and they need to hear it.
24:11They can't shoot you.
24:13because you are
24:17talking about what they did.
24:23We also decided to testify.
24:26in Belgrade.
24:27It wasn't very long.
24:29that the war is over.
24:31I only really remember
24:33anxious all the time.
24:35The people who were in the garden
24:37They're still alive, you know?
24:40You have an idea in your mind.
24:41Regarding serfs?
24:43Are they bad?
24:46One...
24:47When you have that experience,
24:49of course something like that will
24:51that they did that
24:53and that they did it
24:55and that they did it
24:55and that they did it
24:56And that's what they did.
24:59But I can't say.
25:01about every person who lives in that country.
25:04For me, what it really was
25:05The reaction was impressive.
25:07of families.
25:10Families
25:11They were all there,
25:12right behind him.
25:15and...
25:15you know,
25:18that he did not show
25:19remorse.
25:20I was
25:21scared
25:22to see the family's reaction.
25:24Me, me,
25:25They were there.
25:26for two hours
25:27listening to all the details
25:29that you
25:29I could say
25:32about what happened
25:34that day.
25:37and also,
25:38they felt that
25:40It was...
25:41one...
25:42one...
25:42that he was
25:43trying.
25:45It was very difficult.
25:46for me
25:46even
25:47to understand
25:50all...
25:52this reaction.
26:00for me,
26:01the person
26:02it was
26:02what it was
26:06what was
26:06what it was
26:07what was
26:07what was
26:09and...
26:10I
26:11apathetic.
26:12I
26:13no
26:13he died
26:14Don't park.
26:28I thought, I was soldier doing things
26:31for my country, for my people.
26:33I was not wrong.
26:34My side was not wrong.
26:36We did the right thing.
26:37So, that is what kept you lying to yourself.
26:43So, when we talk about unity of intent, most people didn't want to get the truth right.
26:50Even if they wanted to, they couldn't, because they are already in their nation, celebrated as heroes.
27:04As much as I had desire to change myself, I was not strong enough to make that step.
27:15Cynthia, my lawyer, I could never say thank you enough to her and her family,
27:22because she realized that I'm not that bad person, that I can be changed.
27:29She involved her family, her children.
27:32She would bring children to detention unit to visit me.
27:37And now I imagine, I'm listening to all this, what is happening during trial,
27:43and then when we have break for a couple of days, she brings her two kids,
27:47and we talk stupid children stuff.
27:51I forget for the moment where I am and what I am.
27:56She brings me books from U.S. schools.
27:59She brings, involves her parents, who came to visit me, to talk to me.
28:04That's why I was one who jumped out.
28:08If I was left alone, I don't think that I would be any different than anyone else.
28:19Many perpetrators in The Hague did not recognize the court or their guilt.
28:25Just 20 out of 161 accused pleaded guilty, even though they would have been given lesser sentences.
28:34Bosnian Serb politician Biljana Plavzic was one of the few who admitted being culpable.
28:44Biljana Plavzic turned herself in to the U.N. war crimes tribunal on Wednesday.
28:48She's accused of genocide, war crimes, and crimes against humanity.
28:57The trials lasted for years.
29:01They told me I could get a life sentence.
29:07Once, I entered the courtroom with my blood pressure at 220.
29:14My lawyer said, Biljana, there's only one solution.
29:19Plead guilty.
29:20In this way, you should admit the crime.
29:26I was an unnecessary part of our administration.
29:30I carried this legislation that had a number of innocent people for victims.
29:37The most important thing for me is the responsibility towards myself.
29:54Do you believe me?
29:57I sleep very well.
29:59The trial chamber has to pass sentence on a 72-year-old former president
30:06for her participation in a crime of the utmost gravity.
30:13On the other hand, there are very significant mitigating circumstances,
30:18in particular, the guilty plea of the accused.
30:24Let the accused stand.
30:29Biljana Plevšić, having given due weight to the factors set out,
30:36the trial chamber sentences you to a period of 11 years' imprisonment.
30:44This is an international institution, this Hague tribunal,
30:50attacking the entire Serb nation.
31:04I'm not saying the Serbs were angels.
31:08But look at the ratio, for example, on my floor, in the prison in The Hague.
31:16Ten Serbs, two Croats, one Muslim, whom I found so funny.
31:22He said, I am only here for the sake of proportion.
31:32Not a trace of justice.
31:35Not a trace.
31:47It is true that most of the accused were Serbian,
31:51but that is due to the context of the conflict.
31:57After the dissolution of Yugoslavia,
32:00the federal army was also dissolved.
32:03The headquarters were in Belgrade, in Serbian hands.
32:07So this federal army became a Serbian army.
32:16So of course, they had plenty of weapons.
32:19The Bosnian army was built on the go and barely had any weapons.
32:23The same was true for the Croats.
32:34That is why the Serbs committed more crimes.
32:40Of course, that doesn't mean Serbs were a criminal nation.
32:43That is just how the situation was at the time.
32:51For the Croats that we prosecuted,
32:54We could have done better.
32:56And we could have been better with the Muslim crimes.
32:59The problem with the Muslim crimes, from my perspective,
33:02That's because they were smaller.
33:03They didn't leave mass of bass.
33:04They were killing people behind barns in the night
33:08and then killing witnesses that might be able to point to it.
33:12It was on a much smaller scale.
33:14And some of the best people were in the other cases.
33:17The cases where the most pain was dished out by the accused.
33:22But overall, we did a respectable job
33:25for those who were most responsible for the worst conduct of that war.
33:39Four years after it started,
33:41the trial of Slobodan Milosevic was still unfinished.
33:45Hearings were often delayed.
33:47as Milosevic's health deteriorated.
33:52On March 11, 2006,
33:56Milosevic was found dead in his prison cell.
33:59He died of a heart attack.
34:04The chamber has been advised of the death
34:08of the accused Slobodan Milosevic.
34:11We express our regret at his passing.
34:16We also regret that his untimely death
34:20has deprived not only him,
34:23but indeed all interested parties
34:25of a judgment upon the allegations in the indictment.
34:39I've never been that excited
34:42by getting someone convicted and punished.
34:45It doesn't do a great deal for me.
34:47What I would have enjoyed doing
34:51would have been to have presented
34:53a narrative backed by evidence
34:57that could be seen as accurate.
35:01And that's something that probably still hasn't been done.
35:11I was very sure that he would be convicted.
35:15What happened in the end?
35:17it's, for me, it's very disappointing.
35:21But also what really bothers me
35:25is this rhetoric of people within Serbia
35:29saying, oh, he didn't commit any crime
35:31because he was never convicted for it.
35:34His death shook the institution
35:38as much as his arrest had made the institution.
35:45And, of course, it was a natural event.
35:48Nobody could have foreseen it.
35:49But so many resources went into that
35:54and so much planning,
35:56We had to shift gears again.
35:58and find the new direction forward.
36:02While Milosevic was mourned in Belgrade,
36:05the ICTY's most wanted fugitives
36:08were hiding in Serbia.
36:11Radovan Karadic and Ratko Mladic,
36:15charged with genocide in the Bosnian War,
36:18were still regarded as heroes.
36:28So I arrived early January in 2008.
36:31Milosevic died two years earlier.
36:33It was obvious that the main frustration,
36:36if I may say,
36:36was Karadzic and Mladic are still out there.
36:42You know, people like Karadzic and Mladic,
36:44even today you will find people in Serbia
36:47and Rebecca Srpska still supporting them.
36:50So getting cooperation and getting arrests
36:52It is very, very difficult.
36:54And what you need as an international prosecutor
36:55is really political support
36:57from those countries
36:59who have influence and impact
37:01on those countries
37:02who are not arresting the fugitives.
37:04And with all countries in the former Yugoslavia
37:07who have as a political objective
37:09to join sooner or later the European Union,
37:12where the European Union
37:13had a lot of leverage
37:14saying that if you want to go there,
37:18one of the many conditions
37:19you have to fulfill
37:20is full cooperation
37:22in arresting the remaining fugitives.
37:33Radovan Karadzic
37:34is now in custody
37:36of the International Criminal Tribunal
37:38for the former Yugoslavia.
37:41After 13 years at large,
37:43He arrived in the Netherlands.
37:44early this morning
37:45and has been transferred
37:47to the United Nations
37:49detention center in Vihague.
37:54Something like 5 o'clock one morning,
37:59I got a phone call.
38:01Radovan Karadzic has been captured.
38:03Would you like to prosecute him
38:05For the siege of Sarajevo?
38:06And I said yes.
38:12Karadzic remained a fugitive from justice
38:15And he did that.
38:17through a very clever disguise
38:18as a faith healer.
38:20And it was a disguise that worked.
38:22The man who was arrested in 2008
38:24looked nothing like Radovan Karadzic.
38:30But what was very interesting
38:33was when Karadzic made his first appearance
38:37in court after his arrest.
38:40Everything was shaved off.
38:43The hair was short
38:44and the man that he once was
38:46and the man that he once was
38:46was back.
38:50Mr. Karadzic,
38:52I see that you are alone.
38:55At least I don't see
38:56council assisting
38:59or representing you
39:00at this moment.
39:01Is it your choice
39:03not to be represented by council
39:05at this initial appearance?
39:24In the courtroom,
39:26I found Radovan Karadzic
39:28extraordinarily well prepared.
39:31He was a master of detail.
39:34He was really good
39:36as his own council.
39:37Good morning,
39:38Good morning,
39:38Good morning to everyone.
39:40Good morning,
39:40Mrs. Malagic.
39:42Good morning.
39:44First of all,
39:45I want to express
39:47my solidarity
39:49because of the loss
39:50and the failures
39:51that you have passed.
39:53But
39:54however,
39:55our response
39:56is quite wide
40:00So I still have to ask you.
40:05Well,
40:06out of everyone
40:06I testified against,
40:07He was the worst.
40:11A psychopath
40:14who lies whenever he speaks.
40:16Have you met
40:17Osman Malagic?
40:20Yes.
40:22Do you know
40:25that Osman Malagic
40:27was the commander
40:27of the military
40:29of the commandant?
40:31Do you know
40:33that my commander
40:33was gone
40:36at the beginning
40:39and I don't know
40:41when he was able
40:42to be the commander
40:43of the military
40:45But I don't have time.
40:47for that.
40:47Thank you.
40:48Do you know
40:49Behudina Malagic?
40:52Orhanov's son.
40:54Mr. Karadzic,
40:56I'm struggling
40:56to understand
40:58the point
40:58of these lines
40:59of questions.
41:00Your Excellency,
41:01ta je porodica
41:03veoma istaknuta.
41:05Vojnička porodica
41:07sa velikim
41:09doprinosom
41:10borbama.
41:11He listed
41:12all my family
41:13members
41:14and characterized
41:15us as a
41:16family of fighters.
41:17I told him
41:18nothing to worry
41:18too much
41:19about this
41:19fighter's family
41:20because everyone
41:21I had
41:22is lined up
41:23in the memorial
41:24center
41:24like sardines
41:25so he can
41:27sleep peacefully
41:27in The Hague.
41:37In 2011,
41:39the ICTY's
41:40last fugitive
41:41was finally
41:42apprehended
41:42in Serbia.
41:44After 15 years
41:45on the run,
41:47Radko Mladic
41:47was arrested
41:48and handed over
41:49to The Hague.
41:51Mr. Mladic
41:53would you kindly
41:54rise and
41:55make the
41:56solemn
41:56declaration
41:56Please?
42:00Radko Mladic
42:01then I was
42:02really surprised
42:03because I had
42:03always thought
42:04that he would
42:06not allow himself
42:06to be taken
42:07that there would
42:08be a shootout
42:08that he would
42:09always have
42:09a gun
42:10under his pillar
42:11which I suspected
42:12Radko Mladic
42:13wouldn't have
42:14or wouldn't know
42:15how to use
42:16and yet he allowed
42:17himself to be taken.
42:37Mr. Mladic
42:38I'm cutting you off
42:39Please be seated.
42:43I felt
42:44absolute
42:45elation
42:46and happiness.
42:47I would go
42:48into court
42:49every day
42:50wait for that
42:51guy to come
42:52in through the
42:53doors and sit
42:54behind the
42:54dock with his
42:55either silly
42:56grin or his
42:58serious psycho
42:59eyes or whatever
43:01mood he was in
43:01that day and I
43:02I would pinch myself
43:04just to make sure
43:05Is this really...?
43:05happening?
43:06Do we really
43:06Do you have this guy?
43:07And a big smile
43:09would go over
43:10my face.
43:10I would look
43:11at him,
43:11He would smile.
43:12back at me
43:12and I would
43:13smile at him
43:13Saying yeah
43:14It's so nice.
43:15to have you
43:15General.
43:17he had
43:18four years
43:18of acting
43:19with impunity
43:20killing who
43:21he wanted
43:21having his
43:22troops rape
43:23who he
43:23wanted
43:24he knew
43:25the tribunal
43:26existed
43:27he laughed
43:27at it
43:28and so
43:28we
43:29you know
43:30we have
43:30we have
43:31Shrebrenica
43:32and we have
43:32genocide
43:36we have
43:38done
43:39only
43:40that
43:43he
43:48said
43:49said
43:50he
43:50he
43:50he
43:50he
43:50that they've already been filmed.
43:53Mr. President Radovane,
43:56I can't and I don't want to.
43:58which I serve with my own state.
44:21Mr. Karadzic,
44:22Please,
44:23a chamber,
44:28sentence yourself, Radovan Karadzic,
44:32the only sentence of 40
44:34for zero years of imprisonment.
44:39I'm glad he was invited.
44:42I'm happy with myself too.
44:43Because I contributed with my testimony.
44:50Mr. Mladic,
44:51Mr. Mladic,
44:53Mr. Mladic,
44:58If you continue like this...
45:00Mr. Mladic,
45:05He will be removed from the room.
45:08Curtain,
45:09Mr. Mladic,
45:10He will be removed from the room.
45:15A chamber finds Radovan Karadzic,
45:19Guilte of the following cases.
45:22Genocide,
45:24persecution,
45:25extermination,
45:26deportation,
45:27atosal,
45:28atosal,
45:29violation of the laws
45:31or customs of war.
45:34A chamber sentence,
45:36Mr. Mladic,
45:37life as imprisonment.
45:40THE CITY
45:41THE CITY
45:41THE CITY
45:41THE CITY
45:41THE CITY
45:42THE CITY
45:42THE CITY
45:42THE CITY
45:56THE CITY
45:58THE CITY
45:59THE CITY
46:03THE CITY
46:07THE CITY
46:07THE CITY
46:10THE CITY
46:14THE CITY
46:22THE CITY
46:24THE CITY
46:49THE CITY
46:52THE CITY
46:53THE CITY
47:17THE CITY
47:18THE CITY
47:19THE CITY
47:20THE CITY
47:20THE CITY
47:20THE CITY
47:21THE CITY
47:23THE CITY
47:24THE CITY
47:24THE CITY
47:25THE CITY
47:25THE CITY
47:25THE CITY
47:25THE CITY
47:25THE CITY
47:26THE CITY
47:27THE CITY
47:27THE CITY
47:31THE CITY
47:33They think the ICC might be targeting American soldiers.
47:40I don't think there's much chance of getting the Republic of China, or the U.S., or the Federal.
47:48From Russia, which is a good idea to say, okay, we'll put ourselves and everyone else...
47:53no trial.
47:54No.
47:55My fear is that justice has lost its light, its light, its light.
48:01The arc of its importance may lie on the other side,
48:06If we do something about it.
48:28I can assure you that the court saved my life.
48:34They made me a better person.
48:37Not because they sentenced me to 15 years in prison.
48:42This hasn't changed anything in my life.
48:45I think the support I receive from them has helped me.
48:52I work for myself.
48:53I worked in therapy with a psychologist for 10 years.
48:57I got out of prison.
48:58They pay for my therapy.
49:03If I were in Bosnia, I would never move.
49:09I've never heard anyone criticize it.
49:13I've never heard anyone criticize it.
49:14I've never heard anyone criticize it.
49:14I always say, "Oh, you're a good guy."
49:17Screw them.
49:18I don't mind.
49:20I don't mind.
49:21I don't mind.
49:21Nobody wants to realize that the war ended a long time ago.
49:23And then terrible things happened.
49:31Where there is history, many crimes were happening in this area.
49:36But no one is guilty or arrested.
49:41Now this has happened for the first time.
49:44And nobody can delay that.
49:47We have denias everywhere.
49:49But we've already established the facts.
49:54I can't say exactly why I keep coming back here.
50:00Probably saying that I'm alive, maybe.
50:04This is our home.
50:06We're not from Mars, we're from here.
50:11But I can sense that we are not welcome here.
50:14And they just wait a moment.
50:18And they seem to eliminate us again.
50:24I had so many friends and acquaintances.
50:30They often come to our house, we used to go there a lot together.
50:36Now I've passed the brakes through Srebrenica.
50:38I passed all my work, I passed it in the park.
50:41And when I see them passing by, I keep my head up.
50:45But they look the other way.
50:48Maybe they'll forgive me or hate me, I don't know.
50:50I don't know, I can say
50:54But they should avoid any contact.
50:55These friends, they don't want to be friends anymore.
50:59I don't know if anymore
51:01I don't know if anymore
51:13their beloved children, but the hope is always that society and those individuals
51:20Those who understand correctly realize that what you're going through, someone else isn't, because, unfortunately,
51:31These men have shown no remorse, no way of feeling bad about what they did.
51:39But it's very important that we did everything we could, so that our family is not only lost,
51:51that people understood who they were and that their lives mattered.
52:10Music
52:11Music
52:13Music
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