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A look at the international network of undercover officers attempting to penetrate the hidden corners of the internet to stop those who exploit and harm children. Operating across borders, cultures and political divides, this rare collaboration sees law enforcement agencies from countries including Russia and the US working side by side.
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00:00:19Oh, he's on.
00:00:23Oh, that's convenience.
00:00:28We're probably almost exactly 12 hours away from meeting him for the first time.
00:00:34It'll be really real tomorrow, knowing that, like, what happens tomorrow is essentially
00:00:41the end of his freedom, you know, his life.
00:00:59All right, good afternoon.
00:01:01I'm Greg Squire from Homeland Security in Portland, and thank you in advance for helping with
00:01:07this case.
00:01:08Particularly, I'd like to thank our teams who are here from Brazil, Australia, and Europe,
00:01:12just really appreciate you guys coming all this way to help.
00:01:15It's been a very long time coming, five, six years that Cassie and I have gone through
00:01:21it.
00:01:22This is him today, kind of easy to spot, but we have a couple other pictures in the Ops
00:01:27Plan.
00:01:28He's going to be charged with Enterprise, and what that does is basically highlight what
00:01:33he's been doing and what the 400,000 people on his website are responsible for, the distribution
00:01:39of millions of images and videos of child sexual abuse.
00:01:43I've been doing undercover a long time, and trust me, these aren't just run-of-the-mill
00:01:47pedophiles.
00:01:48They're some of the most advanced criminals on the planet.
00:01:53This is the target's apartment, mostly relevant to the three who are going to be in inside.
00:01:57We're going to take him inside almost immediately.
00:02:00If he has his backpack with him, we'll take that into custody, same with the phone.
00:02:05But that's the exit there.
00:02:08Our three eyes in there will be in comms with Cassie.
00:02:11Cassie's going to be online early.
00:02:13If he decides to get online before he goes to his big appointment, then Cassie will be
00:02:18able to engage, confirm he's in the apartment, confirm he's online.
00:02:22So it's a big day for Quackers.
00:02:28There's a lot of foot traffic out of this door.
00:02:30A lot of kids move in and out of here.
00:02:31There's a lot of adults, families.
00:02:33So it's not just college kids here, it's a pretty good mix of people.
00:02:38Our three interior people will cover here, here, and here.
00:02:42He's going to have to walk past you.
00:02:44It's up to the three of you how you want to do it.
00:02:47As soon as they see him and begin to kind of get an indication of what door he's going
00:02:51out, they're going to call us and we'll hit it up over the radio.
00:02:56The central location will be my vehicle and the few people who are with me.
00:03:03Getting into the building, it's going to be just the apprehension team and my car.
00:03:08Team 5 check in, please.
00:03:10So we're going to roll up in the building with maybe 6 to 8 total, no more than that.
00:03:15Let's get a quick radio check, like get to where your vehicles are, get your gear on,
00:03:19whatever you're going to have for tactical gear.
00:03:22Again, just to reiterate, the primary objective here is server access.
00:03:27Any questions?
00:03:30Stand by, the target is moving.
00:03:31Like, we're going to be trying to get with you from the mathematical gear.
00:03:45We've said it little bit.
00:04:10Hey, how you doing?
00:04:13How you doing, buddy?
00:04:15Hey, Greg Squire, Homeland Security.
00:04:17How are you?
00:04:18Good, buddy.
00:04:19Got to have a little chat with you, all right?
00:04:49Good, buddy.
00:05:01Good, buddy.
00:05:02Everything you can do.
00:05:38Good, buddy.
00:05:43Good, buddy.
00:05:44Good, buddy.
00:05:59Good, buddy.
00:06:02Come on.
00:06:05Good boy.
00:06:08Good boy.
00:06:10Bit of a morning routine for the dog and I.
00:06:13Get out into the woods.
00:06:14Come on, let's go.
00:06:15No houses, no lights, very little cell phone coverage, which is kind of a bonus.
00:06:23You know, the problem that we work with never goes away.
00:06:28What do you see, huh?
00:06:29What do you see?
00:06:30When I started my career, I didn't really realize how deep and dark things were going to get.
00:06:47In 2007, I wasn't working for the Postal Service.
00:06:51I had two kids at that point.
00:06:55My kids are the most important thing to me.
00:06:59But I spent seven years delivering letters and I was pretty much at my wit's end at that point.
00:07:07I applied for Homeland Security.
00:07:11Basically, they said, hey, you know, you're going to be assigned to the cyber group.
00:07:17And I said, okay, great.
00:07:19I was just ready to start working.
00:07:21Crimes Against Children was the bulk of what we did in that group.
00:07:26You know, I didn't have, uh, really have any idea what world exactly I was walking into.
00:07:32Yes.
00:07:33Good boy.
00:07:35Good boy.
00:07:36Come here.
00:07:37Come here.
00:07:38The first video that I saw that really opened my eyes to what child sexual abuse was, um, was in
00:07:462008.
00:07:48So, we moved in here, um, when the kids were both pretty little, like maybe, um, five and two, something
00:07:55to that effect.
00:07:56And it was just such an amazing spot to get.
00:07:59Uh, we had a swimming pool, great big yard.
00:08:05And, you know, we would spend our off time and just letting the kids run around out here.
00:08:09It was just a really nice piece of land to have.
00:08:13I think it was a Sunday morning and the kids had been playing up on the deck there by the
00:08:17windows.
00:08:18So, I grabbed my work laptop, um, and I had recently gotten, um, a whole folder, a whole, basically, of
00:08:25results, uh, from an email search warrant.
00:08:28That was when I saw the one email from the suspect.
00:08:31And I noticed there was an attachment.
00:08:33So, I saw the attachment was a video.
00:08:36So, once I clicked and it opened the video, um, I just saw a bedroom, basically.
00:08:41The camera kind of panned around and there was a little girl in bed, um, like, you know, in a,
00:08:46an adult bed.
00:08:47A large bed, um, and she was laying there.
00:08:50There was a book, a big picture book, kid's book next to her.
00:08:55Um, and then I could see an adult male, um, coming into the, coming into focus.
00:09:01He started to read the, read the book to her.
00:09:04Um, and like for that, for that 30 seconds, it looked like something normal.
00:09:12And then he undresses her.
00:09:15And then the abuse starts.
00:09:16It's in the, in the girl.
00:09:18Just, it looked like her soul left.
00:09:21Watch, watching it, watching it happen.
00:09:23And him.
00:09:26I was ready to murder him.
00:09:28You know, like, just watching him do this.
00:09:30And, and watching her.
00:09:32Like,
00:09:36Just endure it.
00:09:38You know?
00:09:38like that's what it looked like to me and yeah for that to go on for so long
00:09:43or you know I think it was probably four full minutes of him raping her
00:09:49it's a fucking long time
00:09:53I mean I had never seen anything like that before you know now I have an
00:09:59unfortunate library of that stuff in my head and so do all the other you know
00:10:05folks to do it but that was definitely the first time
00:10:10and while it like takes from you it also it also gives like you're not gonna find
00:10:17a better fuel to go hunt someone down than that it doesn't get any more
00:10:23passionate than that
00:10:39keep it small you can always go back for seconds I don't really like diet
00:10:44sensitive Peter yeah I know about that I think that's even don't you one two three
00:10:54four five yeah thank you
00:10:58small piece when I first met Greg I thought he was very intense super high
00:11:04energy hilarious obviously very dedicated we just became we became friends like we
00:11:13really had the same passion about the work why doesn't it want me to go that I don't
00:11:19understand what it wants me to do it's weird have you been here before if I told you to
00:11:23drive home right now you wouldn't be able to make no not without GPS just saying we
00:11:27work it all the time it seemed like we were jumping from one case to the next
00:11:33focused on the trading of child sexual abuse materials good thing is that you come out
00:11:38like right we had been doing all the conventional you know email cases and Facebook leads and
00:11:44things like that we would say oh here's this screen name let's ask the company who it's
00:11:51registered to or let's look at the IP addresses that it's been accessing this website it was so
00:11:56easy for law enforcement to go after open websites that everybody was transitioning over to the dark web
00:12:08yeah
00:12:09yeah
00:12:09yeah
00:12:11yeah
00:12:12yeah
00:12:14yeah
00:12:17yeah
00:12:18yeah
00:12:59The first case that really took off on the dark web was the Lucy investigation.
00:13:06In January of 2014, we discovered this series of photos that, you know, was named Lucy of
00:13:15the same girl being sexually abused.
00:13:18In the images, we could see light sockets, electrical outlets, so we knew it was most likely a little
00:13:26girl here in the U.S.
00:13:28We had, you know, enough reason to believe that she was actively being abused and her
00:13:32pictures were being distributed across the dark web.
00:13:38As we gathered more, we learned that she had been abused from a younger age.
00:13:45You know, this girl was probably seven years old in the beginning, and we think she's
00:13:50almost 12 years old now.
00:13:52She was being raped by this man maybe up to five years.
00:13:56I mean, it really was, it kind of took us back a breath.
00:14:01The dark web is built to hide your identity, to anonymize your traffic.
00:14:07There's no traces of any information that say, well, this is where this person came from.
00:14:13So, literally all we had with this Lucy case was the images that we were staring at.
00:14:18But this offender was very good at covering their tracks.
00:14:23You know, consciously cropping out or altering images to remove specific things and be able
00:14:29to hinder our progress.
00:14:31You know, if we're like distribution or definitely production, we don't have that.
00:14:35We won't have that until we get back to the lab and do a deeper dive.
00:14:38We were working this every day for six, seven, eight months.
00:14:43We could communicate all through the morning, all through the night.
00:14:48In the photos, like all photos, you know, there's things in the background.
00:14:52You know, we were looking for clues.
00:14:54We watched Lucy grow up, basically, in an environment of abuse,
00:14:59like of a systematic abuse.
00:15:02I mean, it really took us back, especially, you know, Pete and I, you know, having kids that age.
00:15:10About the eighth month of the investigation,
00:15:13we were able to identify a piece of furniture in the photos.
00:15:17That piece of furniture had far more limited sales
00:15:21than other items that we had already identified.
00:15:25We were trying to make contact with manufacturers and distributors
00:15:28and say, help us out with this, you know, this furniture set.
00:15:33Can you give us a customer list?
00:15:42We got a list of about 40,000 people that had purchased the set.
00:15:49At that point in the investigation, we're looking at 29 states here in the U.S.
00:15:54I mean, you're talking about tens of thousands of addresses.
00:15:58And that's a very, very daunting task.
00:16:03It was a tough time for the team.
00:16:09Nine months is a long time to look for somebody.
00:16:14And as we're doing an investigation, she's still being abused.
00:16:22There's victims that we have never identified.
00:16:27But you can't give up.
00:16:29If we're not going to do it, who's going to do it?
00:16:33Eventually, you're going to get something that will get you there.
00:16:47I can remember clear as day, we were talking about, you know, he's been very careful and he's taking things
00:16:55out of the pictures that, you know, he feels would help identify the girl and locate her and everything else.
00:17:01But the question at that point was, like, what can't you change?
00:17:09Clothing can change.
00:17:11Bedding can change.
00:17:12All these things can change.
00:17:14But is there something that can't change?
00:17:16And that's how we came to look at the bricks.
00:17:22How often do you see an exposed brick wall inside of a child's bedroom?
00:17:29So I started just Googling bricks and it wasn't too many searches that I found the Brick Industry Association.
00:17:37So I called. I just, there was a number on there in Virginia.
00:17:41And I said, hey, you know, my name's Greg Squire.
00:17:44I work for the Homeland Security and, you know, we're working a case of a missing girl.
00:17:48And the woman on the phone was awesome.
00:17:50She was like, how can the brick industry help?
00:17:54I said, well, I have a picture.
00:17:56I want to know if somebody can tell me something about these bricks.
00:18:00She said, we have brick experts all over the country.
00:18:03We can share it with our distribution list.
00:18:06And we were wrapping things up for the day.
00:18:08And I don't think I was even at the car before I started getting emails.
00:18:13And I think we all kind of felt like that rush of adrenaline was that all of a sudden, maybe
00:18:21something could come of this.
00:18:30I work for the Acme Brick Company.
00:18:34I've been in sales since 81.
00:18:37Over the years, I would say I've sold in excess of 300 specific colors and sizes and styles of bricks.
00:18:46That day, I was sitting at my desk doing my normal probably paperwork or report or something for corporate.
00:18:53And it popped up in my inbox and I read the email and I knew exactly what the brick was.
00:18:59I noticed that the brick was a very pink cast brick and it had a little bit of a charcoal
00:19:05overlay on it.
00:19:06It was a modular eight inch brick and it was square edged.
00:19:09Immediately made the brick pop out to me that it was a flaming Alamo.
00:19:15We made that brick from the late 60s through about the middle part of the 80s.
00:19:20And I had sold millions of brick in that plant.
00:19:24So I emailed Agent Squire.
00:19:27I'm thinking, fuck, this is great.
00:19:30And so in my mind, I'm going, well, you know, would you have sales records of something like that?
00:19:37He's like, we've been selling this brick since the 70s.
00:19:40Then it's all just a pile of notes and stuff like that.
00:19:44And I was like, shit.
00:19:45And it kind of took the steam out of me a little bit.
00:19:48And he says, I think he called me son.
00:19:51He says, hey, you know what bricks are?
00:19:55And I'm like, you got me, sir. I don't know.
00:19:59He goes, bricks are heavy.
00:20:05What I explained to Greg was that brick are heavy and we can only haul about 10,000 to a
00:20:10truck.
00:20:10So we're not transporting bricks typically all the way across the country.
00:20:15So don't be looking way, way out. You need to be looking within this smaller area.
00:20:22He says, that brick didn't travel 50 miles out of this plant.
00:20:28What a, like, I was so excited at that point.
00:20:34They were looking in 29 different states and it was a needle in a haystack that narrowed it down to
00:20:39possibly one state, one city.
00:20:41We have an extremely small area to look in now.
00:20:46We were able to take the list from the furniture manufacturer and just draw a radius around this brick factory
00:20:54and see who falls in that radius.
00:20:58He whittled down this 10,000 plus list to probably 40, 50 people.
00:21:04So we thought we had a fairly good shot if we looked through social media that somebody on that list
00:21:10might have a picture of Lucy on their page.
00:21:14And probably by 9 a.m. we were flipping through social media pages and there was Lucy right in front
00:21:23of us.
00:21:24Couldn't fucking believe it.
00:21:27Nine months of looking and we're sitting there staring at her and we all looked and said,
00:21:33100% this is her.
00:21:36100%.
00:21:39We literally started with a picture that could have started anywhere in the world and then we narrowed it down
00:21:44to one house.
00:21:47That was a good feeling.
00:21:49They had also figured out that living in the house was the mother's boyfriend and that that was a convicted
00:21:57sex offender living there.
00:22:00I mean, at that point, it's 10 or 11 a.m.
00:22:04And our first thought was, how do we get there before she's home from school and eliminate the chance of
00:22:13him having access to her even one more time?
00:22:18And by 4 o'clock, our whole team was in that house, safeguarded Lucy, head start the interview process, and
00:22:27by 5 o'clock, the suspect was in custody.
00:22:34I got an email saying we found her.
00:22:37This little girl now is safe and out of harm's way.
00:22:42My wife and I have been foster parents for over 20 years.
00:22:45We've had over 150 different children in our home.
00:22:49We've adopted three.
00:22:51So, doing that over those years, we have a lot of children in our home that were abused, that were
00:22:57neglected, both physical and sexual abuse.
00:23:01And it leaves a mark on you.
00:23:04It leaves a mark on your psyche that stays with you.
00:23:12What they do day in and day out and what they see is a magnification of hundreds of times of
00:23:19what I've seen or had to deal with.
00:23:23So, I can't imagine what they have to take home with them at night.
00:23:50After the Lucy investigation, Pete and I really began to focus and become dedicated.
00:23:56To dark web activity.
00:24:01The use of the dark web just expanded.
00:24:04Just exploded.
00:24:05The number of users and the number of outlets was just a dramatic increase.
00:24:12That was our first glimpse of them creating forum-based websites.
00:24:18Those sites just look like a regular forum of people who all had a shared interest.
00:24:23People can belong to woodworking forums and gun forums and car forums.
00:24:29The structure is exactly the same, but for the content.
00:24:34They trade child abuse material all through the day and all through the night.
00:24:42Each site kind of has their own niche.
00:24:44So, this might be only boys, this might be only girls or only hardcore.
00:24:51You build a community around it and you quickly find out that there aren't just ones and twos of guys
00:24:58interested in this, but there's thousands.
00:25:00And it just becomes a breeding ground for who can be the more shocking person, who can take things to
00:25:10the next level.
00:25:11We saw the abuse of children getting younger and getting more violent.
00:25:19Probably it was out there, you know, ten years ago.
00:25:22But now we saw it all in one place.
00:25:24And with this anonymous network, they were hiding nothing.
00:25:31They felt free to say whatever they wanted.
00:25:34And that's frightening.
00:25:45We needed to be in there.
00:25:46We needed to try to find out how we could infiltrate these networks, how we could disrupt them.
00:25:53What could be done to take on a group of a hundred thousand guys with the resources we had, which,
00:26:02you know, to this day remain very small.
00:26:07This was really the beginning of having dedicated online undercover officers that would function full-time being part of these
00:26:19communities.
00:26:21A lot of undercover work, which Greg took the lion's share of, being able to be accepted by such a
00:26:29group is a pretty heavy task.
00:26:32It's like going undercover with the mob or something.
00:26:38Face-to-face undercover, there's a lot written about that.
00:26:42People going into gangs and going into doing these really deep undercover roles.
00:26:47But this was brand new.
00:26:50You know, we were entering and working in a borderless environment that was operating 24 hours a day.
00:27:03We realized the need for some help.
00:27:07Well, there were some real mace deren tale they could Irene.
00:27:49I remember my first investigation, my first role, my first task in this new job was watching
00:28:01several hours of a kid being raped in a hard way. It was really difficult for me. And it changed
00:28:15me as a person, as a man, as a father. It changed me.
00:28:20That's when JetBoys, Bap and Gap came online. I think that's the first time we see the Russians sort of...
00:28:26We establish a network with different investigators. And it's easy to send a message to someone like Greg and all
00:28:34the other Gregs that I know around the world.
00:28:40It takes a network to defeat another network.
00:28:45Globally, we were all trying to find our way, trying to find a strategy so that we were focusing on
00:28:52the most violent offenders, the most dangerous offenders.
00:28:58In 2015, a dark web site opened up called Baby Heart.
00:29:05Baby Heart was a board on the darknet dedicated to babies and toddlers, pictures and movies of babies and toddlers
00:29:12being abused.
00:29:14Contents, the pictures we do with babies was terrible.
00:29:18A guy named Twinkle was the self-professed operator of the site. Naturally, he became a person of great interest
00:29:26to all of us.
00:29:28He was not just the administrator, but a major contributor.
00:29:31Twinkle was the worst person on the darknet regarding the crime of child abuse.
00:29:38There were times when he was contributing almost an unbelievable amount of material.
00:29:44I think it was somewhere between 12 and 15 children at that point that we could attribute to this one
00:29:51guy.
00:29:52And to watch somebody abuse, rape a baby, there's nothing human about it.
00:30:08That became an instant focus for our online undercover work.
00:30:13We started to work with the Interpol, Homeland Security from the United States, Australia, England, Spain, France, everybody was chasing
00:30:23Twinkle.
00:30:25Baby Heart went from a couple thousand to a hundred thousand members.
00:30:30But trying to work on the identification of Twinkle was difficult.
00:30:34The paranoia in this community is ever present.
00:30:39There really is no letting your guard down.
00:30:43Twinkle used several maneuvers to cover the tracks on the darknet.
00:30:49He was writing in different languages, like French, Spanish, Portuguese, English.
00:30:59In those chats that were written in English, he used an expression.
00:31:07He said, it cost me the eyes of my face.
00:31:10It's a Portuguese expression.
00:31:12It's not an expression that you can use in English.
00:31:15It was the first clue about the nationality of Twinkle.
00:31:24Our Brazilian partners had arrested a guy that had had a relationship online with Twinkle.
00:31:33When this guy was arrested, they seized a lot of evidence during a house search.
00:31:38What they found was a link to a Facebook page in Portugal.
00:31:45That is what, in fact, broke open the case.
00:31:52Some of the pictures that we had of Twinkle abusing the children, we could see his hand.
00:31:57And his hand had a skin condition.
00:32:00And once we started that deep dive on that page, we saw a few pictures of that individual's hand.
00:32:09The pattern, the color of the skin, we had a match.
00:32:16We felt comfortable enough to get a team together to head down to Portugal.
00:32:22Greg was part of the team that was supporting us with his knowledge,
00:32:27with his experience dealing with this kind of offenders.
00:32:45On our way to Twinkle's place, it was possible to feel the tension inside the car.
00:32:56It was six in the morning.
00:33:00I remember my heart beating a lot.
00:33:05My main concern, it was finding and seizing his hard drives.
00:33:11Because we are not talking about files.
00:33:15We are not talking about digital evidence.
00:33:19We are talking about victims.
00:33:23We approached his residence.
00:33:25You know, pretty country road, farms here and there.
00:33:31And Twinkle's house was on the right-hand side as we approached.
00:33:35A place he would pass by in a heartbeat.
00:33:39We stopped the car.
00:33:42Everybody jumped out of the car.
00:33:46We saw the door and it was the perfect time to enter.
00:33:52In the second room, on the right, we found Twinkle.
00:33:56Twinkle was in his bed, laying with two kids around five years at the time.
00:34:06We grabbed Twinkle.
00:34:08We grabbed Twinkle.
00:34:09He was taking away from the kids to a different room.
00:34:16I remember his face.
00:34:19He was surprised.
00:34:22You can imagine a skinny guy, around 25, 26 years old.
00:34:29Scared.
00:34:31And, you know, in a certain way, fragile.
00:34:36Like, these guys, they have a perfect world in the dark net.
00:34:41But in real life, they are not that strong.
00:34:46They are weak persons.
00:34:47That's why they do this to the victims.
00:34:49Because they are weak.
00:34:56We started collecting evidence inside the house.
00:35:00Pretty spartan living quarters, despite the size of it all.
00:35:06Twinkle was pretty agreeable to talk to us.
00:35:10To sit next to me and showing me his sight.
00:35:13But the forensic team had isolated one desktop computer that they felt was the primary.
00:35:19The problem was, the hard drive was gone.
00:35:26I asked them, where is the hard drive?
00:35:30And he told me, it's not in here.
00:35:33Follow me.
00:35:48He was entering deeper in the bushes.
00:35:52I said to him, slowly, walk slowly.
00:35:57Because we didn't know if someone was hidden in here to support him or if there was something
00:36:04that he can use against us.
00:36:08I told him, don't try to escape.
00:36:12Because we will chase you.
00:36:18And then, around here, we made a turn to the right.
00:36:25The cockpit.
00:36:26He pointed.
00:36:28Keep it.
00:36:39He grabbed a plastic bag with the hard drives inside.
00:36:47I didn't believe that he was hidden, buried here in the middle of nothing and really far
00:36:56away from his home.
00:37:06It was buried a couple of hours before we arrived.
00:37:12He abused the kids that were in his bed with him and took some pictures, made some movies
00:37:21and they stored everything on the hard drive and they came here in the middle of the night
00:37:29and buried again the hard drives.
00:37:39As the search continued and the questions were being asked of Twinkle, we went out to look
00:37:45at his car.
00:37:46And when we opened the trunk of the car, looked like Twinkle was leaving for the weekend.
00:37:51There was some kids' toys, like some pool toys in the car, cameras, there was handcuffs,
00:37:58sex toys.
00:38:00And what he ended up admitting was that he had a weekend planned and that he was leaving
00:38:07that morning to go meet another offender and that they had organized this weekend to bring
00:38:18each other's children to this Airbnb to have a weekend of abusing all the kids together.
00:38:30Now this was completely, completely new to me and everybody that was there, you know, there
00:38:37weren't, there was a pretty experienced group there and this was certainly the first time
00:38:41for all of us to go, you know, they had a planned weekend to, you know, sexually abuse babies,
00:38:53you know.
00:38:56So the team sort of got a plan together.
00:38:59I think it was about an hour away.
00:39:02The guy showed up pretty much on time.
00:39:06The primary police officers went and removed him from the vehicle and when they looked in
00:39:12the back, his two kids were in the back.
00:39:15He decided to start confessing shortly thereafter, told us he was the one that they call the
00:39:24forgotten.
00:39:33Humanity is changing.
00:39:36You can see the sexual .
00:39:38You can see the sexuality is changing, and the internet is increasing this type of crime.
00:39:44Because we always had sexual offenders.
00:39:50but now we have a specific part of the society that wants to share with the others the abuses
00:39:59that they commit and sharing with the rest of the community that you can see what I have done to
00:40:07these kids and I cannot understand this Twinkle's material was brutal to look at and equally brutal
00:40:19to listen to any video especially with audio of the infant abuses the hardest stuff to watch
00:40:37someone else from another country dealing with this crime you know that that person have the
00:40:43same issues that you have and Greg have that issues for sure because it's too much it's too
00:40:53much every day every day it's not a bad week or a bad day at the office it's a bad
00:41:03life
00:41:08the problem is the availability of it right if I'm an undercover gang guy like I have to put on
00:41:16my
00:41:18like hey you have to like kind of get ready right like there's there's a there's a ritual a ritual
00:41:23to
00:41:23it right I don't I don't have that barrier so all I have to do is turn on my computer
00:41:30and I'm that
00:41:31other person and each time you flip open the laptop you're in that world and you're having
00:41:39conversations with people about just the most horrible stuff and then you can close the laptop
00:41:52and oh should I gotta get to the game so in a matter of moments you can go from really
00:42:06really evil
00:42:07human to cheering for your kid at their game or going to their school or going to get ice cream
00:42:16and
00:42:16watch some guy hug his daughter and be like you know it's um it certainly came with some collateral
00:42:27that we didn't see in the beginning I go to some special places when I come there I can
00:42:46switch off my mind from the daily job from everything that I saw during the day and it's easy to
00:42:56be a
00:42:56different person or at last to try to be a different person because in the end the ghosts they will
00:43:07always be
00:43:08be in our minds it's impossible to send them away the challenge is living with them
00:43:21oh fuck
00:43:30sorry oh fuck
00:43:33oh fuck
00:43:36yes
00:43:39yeah
00:43:40oh fuck
00:43:49okay
00:43:53i'm back
00:44:01after the arrest of twinkle we thought maybe at least it would give pause to baby heart
00:44:07you know that was the objective right to take this kind of site offline but when we asked twinkle how
00:44:14do we take it down how do we shut it down i mean just i can't do that you know
00:44:19that's that's the boss
00:44:20and so we pressed him a little bit you know who's the bossa and you know he just said i
00:44:25just know him
00:44:26as the bossa he's not a guy who talks a lot he just is the big boss
00:44:33the bossa his name had been around for a number of years we knew lubasa to have up to six
00:44:42different
00:44:42sites kind of under his overall control maybe half a million users we had been compiling little bits
00:44:50and pieces on him to build kind of a dossier up through that we started to get closer and closer
00:44:57to
00:44:57him the break came from another agency and they came to the working group and said hey listen
00:45:04you know we think we know who it is
00:45:11we ended up going to brazil we flew down there with maybe 10 or 12 people
00:45:18u.s. law enforcement folks from the uk i was there to offer an undercovers viewpoint on how the sites
00:45:25were operated
00:45:26a gente chegou a esse nome né chegou ao lubasa que propiciava que cinco dos maiores fóruns da deep web
00:45:36a gente já tava alguns meses nessa investigação realizando inúmeras diligências né ele deixou de ser
00:45:46um nome e passou a ser uma pessoa
00:45:48o lubasa was on a whole nother level
00:45:51if we get to him we would have access to whatever is happening for him as kind of overlords
00:45:58it would give us for the first time a glance from the top down
00:46:13a gente vai tirar a igreja porque aqui não dá pra trabalhar
00:46:15você vai ficar por aqui
00:46:16você tá aí
00:46:18você tá aí
00:46:18você tá demorando demais
00:46:19e aí caraca isso aqui tá demorando agora vai
00:46:22você explica a pergunta aí agora aí
00:46:24agora é vontade você tá pra ir
00:46:26você entendeu agora ele sabe bem o que tem ali sabe bem os tribos penais ali tudo
00:46:32o bossa was asleep when they went in they roused him uh and he was a little uncooperative
00:46:39in the beginning
00:46:40você pode dizer quais são os sites que tem ali
00:46:44mas diz a relação dos sites que você domina
00:46:47eu tô perguntando por curiosidade porque eu conheço uns oito mas deve ter mais
00:46:53pode dizer aí
00:46:54pode dizer aí
00:46:55ele era um jovem jovem jovem de 30 anos
00:46:58o tipo de pessoas que nós estamos arrestando
00:47:02agora estão mais mais mais mais mais
00:47:05a gente não veio aqui pra brincar
00:47:09a gente não veio aqui pra brincar
00:47:12eles cresceram com um laptop
00:47:13eles cresceram com um computador
00:47:15eles cresceram com um computador
00:47:16mais frequentemente trabalhando no campo de IT
00:47:18desenvolvimento de web
00:47:19desenvolvimento de software
00:47:20engenheiro
00:47:21eu quero dizer, isso é um total
00:47:22isso é uma habilidade que nunca vimos
00:47:25até mesmo 10 anos atrás
00:47:27eles passam 40, 50, 60 horas online
00:47:32isso foi a vida para esse cara
00:47:35tudo isso aqui são sacos com lixo
00:47:40e o nível de
00:47:42da cozinha
00:47:44tá muito pior
00:47:46é difícil de escrever
00:47:48você tem que chegar aqui pra ver
00:47:50e cheirar
00:47:53noc
00:47:55noc
00:47:55é
00:48:02noc
00:48:03é
00:48:04noc
00:48:06noc
00:48:07não
00:48:07não
00:48:07é
00:48:20que
00:48:24Because I have a very bad peculiarity, I put myself in the place of the victim, so I suffer a
00:48:32lot with the victim, this is bad.
00:48:37When my daughter was born, I started to stop putting myself in the place of the victim, and I started
00:48:42to put her in the place of the victim, it was a very difficult thing for me.
00:49:11Move in now.
00:49:18Thousands of leads were sent out to locate and arrest individuals who had been part of Lubasa's network.
00:49:27Police for the ward! Come to the door!
00:49:29You know, individuals on his sites are viewing child abuse material.
00:49:37And even if that person has not had their hands on children, they are the reason the sites exist.
00:49:45They're causing the demand.
00:49:47They're encouraging those who have access.
00:49:50They are as big a part of the problem by driving others to commit offenses on their own children.
00:49:59These offenders know everything about security, they are technically savvy, and they're always going to be making changes to try
00:50:09to elude law enforcement.
00:50:11But thanks to our online undercover work, we were getting things done that years before you wouldn't have thought possible.
00:50:19Making arrests and, you know, just making a huge difference.
00:50:24You know, that's an adrenaline rush that it's hard to match.
00:50:36You know, at that point, my kids were a bit older and, you know, very independent, very successful young people.
00:50:41And, you know, that almost enables you to push harder.
00:50:45Like, I work 10 hours today, I bet I can work 12.
00:50:51I bet if I get up at 3 this morning, I can surprise somebody online and I can get something
00:50:56else done.
00:50:58You just push yourself and push yourself and push yourself.
00:51:02And you're rewarded, because that shit works.
00:51:05It is effective.
00:51:12But meanwhile, personally, you know, you're kind of losing...
00:51:19Who was I?
00:51:21Who's Greg?
00:51:23I don't even know what he likes to do.
00:51:31All of your friends all during the day, they're criminals, you know?
00:51:36They're pedophiles.
00:51:37All they do is talk about the most horrific things all day long.
00:51:43And when that's over, close the laptop and you look around, and it's just you.
00:51:58It was easy at the time, you know, to pick up a glass or a wall or whatever it was.
00:52:04And you don't think about you when you're having some drinks, you know?
00:52:09It's easy just to go,
00:52:12Alright, the sooner tomorrow starts, the better off I am.
00:52:15Because tomorrow I get back to work.
00:52:19You know, I definitely had a time when alcohol was a bigger part of my life than it should have
00:52:26been.
00:52:29Numbing yourself for a number of hours is not a solution.
00:52:38We had been running at a heavy pace.
00:52:41There was no other focus than the job.
00:52:45It's very easy to go to some dark places, I think.
00:52:50Pete's my best friend, you know?
00:52:51And your best friends can see things that others can't.
00:52:55And they can see those little changes.
00:52:57And we had a talk or maybe a dozen talks, I think.
00:53:01I noticed things that were obviously affecting him.
00:53:08Definitely unfocused anger at times that seemed out of place.
00:53:13Uncharacteristic.
00:53:14Like, it's just turned into, like, turned darker, I guess.
00:53:24It's hard when the thing that brings you so much energy and drive is also the thing that's, like, slowly
00:53:33destroying you.
00:53:38Not too long after I got divorced and just a lot of things were happening, you know, in my own
00:53:46headspace.
00:53:49I think the hardest part of that was, I guess, admitting it.
00:53:55And I remember, um, calling up my sister Robin.
00:53:59We went out into the backyard where I was living.
00:54:02And, um, we sat there.
00:54:05And it took me a good four or five minutes to say,
00:54:11you know, I think, um, I'm think I'm suffering from, from pretty bad depression.
00:54:20I think I was ashamed, you know?
00:54:22I think I felt shame that I had kind of succumbed to that.
00:54:26You're supposed to be bulletproof, right?
00:54:28You work in a space where horrible things happen every day.
00:54:31Um, and you need to stand resolute every day and, and just be, you know, be tough or whatever, whatever
00:54:40bullshit we tell ourselves.
00:54:42Um, and that was a big, a big step in, I think, moving forward.
00:54:49I stopped drinking at that point.
00:54:54Mostly out of fear.
00:54:58I think my birthday was the last day I had a drink that year.
00:55:04And, uh, I just, I had actually opened a beer.
00:55:10And I remember having a few sips of it and then just putting it down.
00:55:15And that was it for two full years.
00:55:18Um, I just, that was, that was that.
00:55:21And I, and I needed to try to focus on getting my head straight.
00:55:31And a lot of that was for my kids, you know?
00:55:36Um, I didn't ever want to be, you know, someone, I guess that, um, you know, they weren't proud of.
00:55:54Uh, yeah, that was a lot of my motivation to, uh, to get started.
00:55:58To get better.
00:56:09Um, you said you were fearful?
00:56:14Yeah.
00:56:16What do you mean?
00:56:18Suicide.
00:56:23I just didn't want to, I didn't want to have those thoughts anymore, you know?
00:56:29I didn't want to hide from the pain.
00:56:32I didn't want to run from the pain.
00:56:36Um, I, I just, I didn't want to leave them behind, you know?
00:56:41I didn't want to end things that way.
00:56:44Um, cause I wasn't winning, you know what I mean?
00:56:48I wasn't winning by myself.
00:56:50It just wasn't, it just wasn't going to happen.
00:56:52It wasn't going to be a, uh, uh, a fight that I was going to win.
00:56:57Um, and if I didn't, if I didn't lean, reach out and talk to, to Robin, talk to, talk to
00:57:05Pete and, you know, maybe be in a bad place.
00:57:15And I, I just didn't want to be there.
00:57:25It is funny to think about, like, kind of diving in with the, with the, you know, the case of
00:57:31looking at the 1A major and getting it going.
00:57:33Pete kind of stepped in where I needed him to.
00:57:36You know, I thank him.
00:57:38I, I'll always thank him for getting me away from a place that was, um, kind of dangerous.
00:57:43And I feel very, very fortunate to work with all my friends across the globe and, and to have them
00:57:50to lean on and say, hey man, it's, it's okay.
00:58:10I remember the first years, yeah, I remember, of the work.
00:58:15It really was difficult.
00:58:17I think.
00:58:19Sometimes, one day, two, three, you...
00:58:24You were in a closed state, and all the time these pictures were in front of their eyes.
00:58:32They were made with us, they were in front of our own thoughts.
00:58:39We, as officers of specialized groups around the world,
00:58:45what we, you know, started to change our mind.
00:58:49It's just a half-word.
00:58:51That's how it's been during the time of our work.
00:59:19He and I had interactions over the years.
00:59:21He was a boy lover.
00:59:23He always loved things more violent,
00:59:26more on the rough side of things,
00:59:28a lot of rape, bondage, things like that.
00:59:31And even other users were going,
00:59:33you know, what's wrong with this guy?
00:59:36You know, he's talking about really, really violent
00:59:40and extreme things.
00:59:44LBO got the attention of the community
00:59:48right around November 11th, 2020.
00:59:53He was making a claim that he had kidnapped a boy.
00:59:57And I was online that day
01:00:01and had read some of the comments around it.
01:00:04And, you know, we read those with a grain of salt.
01:00:07It's not uncommon for users to talk that way
01:00:10and to get kind of go down those paths.
01:00:14And LBO, you know, he was asked, you know, like,
01:00:17yeah, I'm sure you did this.
01:00:18You know, bullshit.
01:00:19Stop fucking around.
01:00:21You know, it's not funny or whatever.
01:00:24Whatever the reactions were.
01:00:25But LBO took it upon himself to provide a proof of life picture.
01:00:34And this is a boy who's clearly in distress.
01:00:38I can see his face clear as day.
01:00:41A blonde-haired boy.
01:00:42That really made my heart start to race.
01:00:47We knew LBO to speak English and Russian.
01:00:51Probably more likely, you know, somebody from Russia
01:00:54or one of maybe the Ukraine or something to that effect.
01:00:57There was no doubt in my mind who, you know,
01:01:00who I was going to reach out to, like, straight away.
01:01:15I gave him a description of the boy.
01:01:22I said, you know, maybe six, seven years old, blonde hair.
01:01:25I would know who he is if he's, in fact, you know,
01:01:28a kid that's, that's pissing.
01:01:36L-Air Boy Only, L-B-O, сокращенно,
01:01:40показал фотографии.
01:01:42Две или три штуки мальчика.
01:01:45А сравнив фотографии, пришел к выводу,
01:01:48что это действительно тот пропавший мальчик,
01:01:50которого ищут сейчас в России.
01:01:54Значит, 28 сентября 2020 года
01:01:58в отдел полиции поступил телефонный звонок
01:02:03от взволнованных родителей,
01:02:05которые говорили,
01:02:06что у них пропал при неизвестных обстоятельствах
01:02:12их сын, 7-летний,
01:02:15который возвращался домой из школы.
01:02:25Вот это автобусная остановка
01:02:28после занятий в школе.
01:02:31И, соответственно, он вышел
01:02:32и проследовал вдоль дороги,
01:02:35вдоль дороги, вот в этом направлении,
01:02:38в сторону своего дома.
01:02:44Там вот все места вот эти вот
01:02:46прочесывались, и туда,
01:02:48вплоть до леса.
01:02:51Здесь была настоящая
01:02:55поисковая операция.
01:02:58Видите, Донзе,
01:02:59все тут досконально.
01:03:0114 дней розыска в режиме нон-стоп.
01:03:04В этой поисковой операции
01:03:06были задействованы
01:03:07все возможные силы и средства.
01:03:10Правоохранители, военные,
01:03:11спасатели, криминалисты,
01:03:13опытные поисковики.
01:03:15В поисках мальчика
01:03:16принимают участие жители села
01:03:18и добровольцы из разных районов нашей области.
01:03:20Каждому дают посильную задачу.
01:03:23Мальчик приехал после уроков
01:03:25на школьном автобусе
01:03:26в родное село,
01:03:27но до дома так и не дошел.
01:03:29Полиция объявила награду
01:03:30за помощь в поиске мальчика
01:03:32в один миллион рублей.
01:03:34There's a real boy missing.
01:03:36The description lines up,
01:03:38timing lines up,
01:03:40and you just go,
01:03:41holy shit,
01:03:42this boy is somewhere
01:03:44with this monster.
01:03:47The boy that had been missing
01:03:49for over 50 days at that point.
01:03:52It's a terrifying thought.
01:03:57Иван had told us
01:03:58that they had called off
01:03:59the search October 11th
01:04:02in that they were just
01:04:03looking for the boy's body.
01:04:05And, you know,
01:04:06now we had called,
01:04:07you know,
01:04:08relatively out of the blue
01:04:09and said,
01:04:10you know,
01:04:10we think he's alive.
01:04:12While we breathed life
01:04:13into the investigation there,
01:04:15we also knew
01:04:17just how dangerous
01:04:18LBO was.
01:04:20And that was
01:04:22nerve-wracking.
01:04:30For me,
01:04:30and I think for everybody,
01:04:32it was
01:04:32the incredible pressure
01:04:34to try to find him
01:04:35as fast as possible.
01:04:37in such a big country
01:04:39as the Russian Federation,
01:04:42with the number of people
01:04:43of 150 million,
01:04:45it's impossible to install
01:04:46it.
01:04:46It's impossible to install
01:04:48the number of people.
01:04:49You know,
01:04:49Yvonne doesn't work
01:04:50dark web cases.
01:04:51He's a street cop.
01:04:53You know,
01:04:53he's boots on the ground
01:04:54kind of guy.
01:04:55We knew we were going to need
01:04:56some serious resources
01:04:57to get this done.
01:04:59And, you know,
01:04:59those resources
01:05:00certainly included
01:05:02large data sets,
01:05:03large databases
01:05:04that Interpol holds.
01:05:06And, you know,
01:05:07one of my favorite people
01:05:08in the world
01:05:09is Gordana.
01:05:12I received a message
01:05:14from Greg
01:05:15asking me for help.
01:05:19I know Greg
01:05:20a long time.
01:05:21We worked together.
01:05:23Greg knows
01:05:24that I speak Russian.
01:05:27Gordana is an analyst
01:05:29and has worked,
01:05:30you know,
01:05:31many, many
01:05:32child abuse cases
01:05:33in the past
01:05:34it was too easy
01:05:36to pick up the phone
01:05:37and get her involved.
01:05:38Can you tell me
01:05:40what information
01:05:42you had
01:05:43to start with?
01:05:46Loverboyonly,
01:05:48LBO,
01:05:50username.
01:05:51I have only username.
01:05:54And information
01:05:55that this username
01:05:57maybe kidnapped the boy.
01:06:02I start working
01:06:04on this case
01:06:05and nothing else
01:06:07except the work.
01:06:09Everything disappeared
01:06:11because
01:06:12I know that
01:06:14probably life
01:06:17of this kid
01:06:18is in our hands.
01:06:21I check
01:06:22our database
01:06:24in Interpol.
01:06:24we have
01:06:26a huge amount
01:06:27of digital files
01:06:29shared by
01:06:30Brazilian police
01:06:31when they
01:06:32arrest
01:06:33Lubassa
01:06:34and I
01:06:35found
01:06:36more than
01:06:3713,000
01:06:39digital files
01:06:40connected
01:06:41with Loverboyonly.
01:06:42Photos,
01:06:43links,
01:06:44messages,
01:06:46posts
01:06:47on forums.
01:06:48So I was
01:06:49reading
01:06:50all the comments
01:06:51searching
01:06:52anything
01:06:53that can
01:06:54lead us
01:06:55to this guy.
01:07:06You know,
01:07:08from an undercover
01:07:08perspective,
01:07:09a lot of our job
01:07:10was doing
01:07:11kind of round-the-clock
01:07:12observation,
01:07:13observe the community
01:07:14and see what occurred.
01:07:16We were
01:07:17in literal
01:07:18constant contact,
01:07:1920-plus hours
01:07:21a day.
01:07:22I'm not sure
01:07:22Gordana was even
01:07:23sleeping,
01:07:24to be honest.
01:07:25All of us
01:07:26was in
01:07:26different time zones.
01:07:28But even
01:07:29if it's a night
01:07:30in the US
01:07:32and Russia
01:07:32and I send
01:07:33a message,
01:07:34I get reply
01:07:34immediately.
01:07:35So because of
01:07:36that I realized
01:07:37we are all
01:07:38not sleeping.
01:07:39We didn't even
01:07:40think about
01:07:41sleeping.
01:07:41Well, yes,
01:07:42the geography is divided.
01:07:44We are
01:07:44with Greg
01:07:45on the other
01:07:46sides of the ocean,
01:07:47but I feel
01:07:49that we are
01:07:50working
01:07:51almost in one
01:07:52room,
01:07:53and with Gordana
01:07:54as well.
01:07:55I just think we must find him.
01:07:58We must find him.
01:08:02Because he will kill him.
01:08:05We weren't under the illusion that LBO would do anything but kill this boy.
01:08:12He'd been talking about that stuff for years.
01:08:15Kidnapping and killing a boy.
01:08:24These users, they really care about security.
01:08:29Because of that, it was very difficult to find him.
01:08:33But they made a mistake.
01:08:36And we are hunting for these mistakes all the time.
01:08:44Gordana built a profile on this guy.
01:08:47And there was three little nuggets of information that were really interesting.
01:08:52The first one was that LBO seemed to suffer from schizophrenia.
01:08:58Now, in Russia, people that have diagnosed schizophrenia actually are entitled to a pension.
01:09:07Some compensation every month from the government.
01:09:10That would be something that Yvonne and their team could look into.
01:09:15The other point that they found was he talked quite a bit about his brother's occupation.
01:09:21And it was an occupation that probably could be checked in databases there in Russia.
01:09:29And then the third point was LBO had a conversation with another person about his mother being killed in a
01:09:36car accident.
01:09:38It actually had a date, a year, rather, that that car accident had occurred.
01:09:44And we started to cross the information, cross the records between each other.
01:09:51And in one of the records we saw that a pension for a psychiatric disease is received by the KPLO
01:09:58Dmitriy,
01:09:591994, 1994, 1994.
01:10:01It was a very rare thing that it was a person that had been released.
01:10:04It was a very rare thing that we thought about it.
01:10:08It was a very rare thing that we thought about it.
01:10:22LBO, NAMI, установлен.
01:10:26Единственное, оставался вопрос, жив ли мальчик.
01:10:32К сожалению, зачастую факты пропажи детей
01:10:36от аналогичного характера заканчиваются смертью ребенка.
01:10:46NAMI было после этого незамедлительно принято решение
01:10:50обыски по месту жительства Копылова.
01:10:52Не выдать себя, да, то есть мы примерно за километр до дома
01:10:57заглушили машины, чтобы преступник не слышал звук двигателей,
01:11:01чтобы он не видел свет фар.
01:11:04Вот мы тихо все вышли.
01:11:12Тихо, подожди, извини, извини.
01:11:33Дверь и башня, парни.
01:11:35Ру!
01:11:42Давайте кто-нибудь туда, внутрь.
01:11:44Вот мир, парни, вот что она.
01:11:46Давай, давай, ломай.
01:11:48Все, внутри.
01:11:50Ваня!
01:11:57Да, да, туда, туда, туда, залазь.
01:12:24Да, давайте здесь заходим через окно.
01:12:27Да, давайте здесь заходим через окно.
01:12:28Заходите через окно, быстрее.
01:12:32И тут просто произошло чудо.
01:12:36Быстрее.
01:12:38Мальчик!
01:12:39Да ладно!
01:12:41Сука, давай, блядь, парни, мальчик, внутри!
01:12:44Пацаны!
01:12:47Открывай дверь, дверь, открывай!
01:12:51Открывай, дверь, дверь, открывай!
01:12:52Открывай, корень!
01:12:52Ебашьте его там, блядь!
01:12:54Дверь открывай, блядь!
01:12:56Офицеры спецназа крикнули нам, что мальчик жив, он здесь.
01:13:01И мы закричали, что мальчик жив.
01:13:05Мальчик там.
01:13:06Мальчик там, все, слава богу.
01:13:08Мальчик там?
01:13:09Да!
01:13:10Да, да!
01:13:11Да!
01:13:13Дверь нам, блядь, откройте, вы, ебаные братцы!
01:13:17Открывайте, пацаны!
01:13:18Дверь, блядь!
01:13:19О, нормально.
01:13:21Да, да, живой!
01:13:24Что ты видишь, там бронированный?
01:13:26Бронированный.
01:13:27Стоп, стоп, стоп!
01:13:29Так, стоп!
01:13:30Стоп!
01:13:31Так, все!
01:13:32Не надо так!
01:13:33Те сотрудники, которые проникли через окна,
01:13:35они практически сразу задержали взрослого мужчину,
01:13:39которым оказался Копылов Дмитрий.
01:13:42Так, Лишин Борис, Сергеевич, вон, пошли.
01:13:50Меня курица зовут, да?
01:13:52Привет, курица.
01:13:53Как тебя зовут?
01:13:57Я подошел, взял его на руки.
01:14:02Молодец.
01:14:03Ничего не бойся, все хорошо.
01:14:08Я думаю, то, что я почувствовал на этот момент, уже у меня на лице, наверное, да?
01:14:15Ну, это был неописуемый, конечно, восторг, это была радость.
01:14:20А многие офицеры, и даже в том числе офицеры спецназа, тогда плакали.
01:14:25Они не могли от вот этой сцены все сдержать слез.
01:14:30И, естественно, я сразу же оповестил и Грега, и Гордану.
01:14:41Гордан.
01:14:42Гордан.
01:14:46Гордан.
01:14:53Гордан.
01:14:57Гордан.
01:14:58Гордан.
01:14:58Гордан.
01:14:58Гордан.
01:14:59Гордан.
01:14:59Гордан.
01:14:59Гордан.
01:14:59Гордан.
01:15:00Гордан.
01:15:01Гордан.
01:15:02Гордан.
01:15:02Гордан.
01:15:04Гордан.
01:15:04Гордан.
01:15:05Гордан.
01:15:08Гордан.
01:15:19Гордан.
01:15:21It was maybe 3 in the morning and I just wake up in a little bit of panic.
01:15:32I grab my phone, take a look and I see my colleague holding the boy.
01:15:51No words to explain this moment.
01:16:09You know, and seeing that picture of his parents hugging him.
01:16:18Yeah, it's just kind of makes you think of like when you hug your own kids, you know, and you
01:16:25just brings a totally different value to that.
01:16:28You know, and to know that they're safe and to know that they're in your arms.
01:16:32I mean, those parents were told a month earlier that their son was dead and that, you know, there was
01:16:43no more hope.
01:16:44And there they were holding him on the train.
01:16:49Maybe the most special moment, you know, in my career.
01:17:13There was a third time I was here.
01:17:16Well, every time I was like, I'm like, I'm going to go to this place.
01:17:24Because here, of course, in one of the last days of 2020 just happened a miracle.
01:17:32I can't call it.
01:17:33I can't call it.
01:17:38Fuh.
01:18:04I know I've come like a good distance, like from where I was.
01:18:10At any given like dark moment.
01:18:13You know, I spent years hiding how I was feeling.
01:18:20Like I'm pretty decent at lying and telling being, you know, wearing a different mask and then, hey, everything's fine.
01:18:29Everything's cool.
01:18:29You know, no big deal.
01:18:30Like, let's go do something.
01:18:33I kind of come to terms with or peace with like, this isn't something you carry by yourself.
01:18:42This isn't something I care about myself.
01:18:44There might be some super soldier out there that can do it.
01:18:47It's just not me.
01:18:57Today, I have a conscious effort about recognizing what's going on that's good.
01:19:04It's so beautiful.
01:19:06Like every moment with my kids, I'm truly thankful for that stuff.
01:19:14I believe in this mission beyond 100%.
01:19:18And I believe in the people and I believe in, you know, we can make a difference.
01:19:23But I want to be able to continue making a difference.
01:19:29What little sacrifices I feel like I've made over the years, I would do it again, over and over again.
01:19:40I couldn't see myself doing anything else.
01:19:45I feel honored to be part of the team that can make a difference.
01:19:49Instead of watching it on TV or hearing about it and going, shit, that's fucking awful.
01:19:57I'd rather be right in there, in the fight, trying to stop it.
01:20:27I told you a little bit about the bricks, the brick thing.
01:20:31I've known about the brick thing since the beginning.
01:20:33You did, yeah.
01:20:34Like the whole idea of even being able to have this conversation someday is still like feels super surreal.
01:20:41Yeah.
01:20:41Like it feels like a miracle in a way.
01:20:43I am incredibly lucky to have a good support system right now while I'm dealing with this.
01:20:48I have more stability.
01:20:50I'm able to have the energy to talk to people, which I could not have done this even like a
01:20:57couple of years ago.
01:20:58No, you just move on and deserve to live like a fucking awesome life.
01:21:02I love to be work on being a functional person.
01:21:05Memory loss is a big part of these things.
01:21:09And I just don't remember a lot of it, which is fine with me.
01:21:15Yeah, right.
01:21:17But like at that point, I was praying, praying actively for it to end.
01:21:24I had been at that point for years, but not to sound cliche, but it was a prayer answered.
01:21:31Yeah.
01:21:32Yeah.
01:21:33Sounds weird.
01:21:33I'm sure.
01:21:34But like we wish there was some telepathy and you could reach out and be like, listen, we're coming.
01:21:38Yeah.
01:21:38Like it does sound cheesy, but like that's the genuine feeling when you're in the middle of those things.
01:21:44And you just want to like reach out and go.
01:21:46Well, fuck it.
01:21:47We're going to get there.
01:21:48And she actually immediately rose.
01:21:53And.
01:23:24A victim of crime or have feelings of despair, you'll find details of help and support at bbc.co.uk
01:23:33slash actionline.
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