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The Business of Influence
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00:00Hello everybody, we are going to talk about, for the next 25 minutes or so, the business of influence.
00:07And this, as we heard, amazing session.
00:10I'm not going to spend too much time talking about Marina, Brendan or Neil,
00:14because y'all have phones in your pockets and you can all look it up.
00:17So, you do that.
00:18We are going to jump right in.
00:20And I want to start with one of Neil's co-workers, who actually is now co-CEO of Whaler.
00:27This actually just happened today, congratulations, Neil.
00:31I saw her talk about the third wave of creator partnerships.
00:35And going from like, oh, creators are like an ad unit, to we're like bound together.
00:40So, talk a little bit about how you see this third wave of partnerships between creators and brands.
00:46I love the question.
00:47Hey everyone.
00:48So, I think the interesting fact for me is we started the company about nine and a half years ago.
00:54And at that time, most creators we work with, like 95% of them, were part-time creators.
01:00People just creating content in their spare time that had a job.
01:03This was a passion and a side hustle.
01:05In the last 12 months, 95% of the creators we work with are full-time content creators.
01:11It is now their career path.
01:12So, the first wave was really one of individuals doing this in their spare time,
01:17not necessarily making much money, a little bit of monetization.
01:21The second wave is of full-time creators mainly doing advertising deals and sponsorships.
01:26And this third wave now is they're media companies.
01:29They're entrepreneurs.
01:30They're hiring teams.
01:31They've got multiple revenue streams.
01:33They really are the publishers of the future and building big and small companies that are disrupting things.
01:38And so, I think that's what Emma means when she's talking about this third wave of the greater economy.
01:42It's really an entrepreneurship economy now.
01:45And we're very lucky to have Marina, who is actually a third wave creator here with us.
01:49I mean, 17 million followers across all of your socials.
01:51But you're also an entrepreneur.
01:53You've built multiple companies.
01:54You work with brands all the time.
01:56Talk for me a little bit about how creators are becoming this new entrepreneur, direct-to-consumer CEO,
02:02and building businesses for themselves as well as for brands.
02:07Absolutely.
02:08The more I talk to creators, the more I hear this thought that I just don't want to rely solely
02:13on brand deals
02:14because we've all been through a recession.
02:16You know, things happen in the world and you just lose that only source of income and you have a
02:21team.
02:21So, a lot of creators are thinking, who are following me?
02:25What is their problem?
02:26And how can I solve it?
02:27And it's actually the best way to start a company because you have this group of really loyal followers.
02:33You understand their problems deeply.
02:35So, you kind of go to market through your following and then you hire professionals to do a broader strategy.
02:43But it's just, it's happening.
02:44You know, how many times have you bought something after you scroll through your Instagram feed?
02:49I don't know.
02:49Like, probably 50% of my purchases happen this way now.
02:53And I love to try out new products by my favorite creators.
02:57And we already see when we go to stores, like makeup stores, I feel like it's like 30% by
03:02creators now.
03:03It's just fascinating.
03:05The economy is changing.
03:06E-commerce is now driven by people who create content.
03:09Yeah, and even the people in those stores behind the counter, they're all creators too.
03:13Oh yeah.
03:14It's wild.
03:14So, Brendan, you started up a social agency for creators.
03:19You worked in an agency.
03:19You're now running one of the first B2B agencies, putting B2B creators and brands together.
03:25Talk for me a little bit about how we've moved beyond the simple sponsorships that you might have done back
03:30in the early days of Epic Signal
03:31to kind of where we are with creator authority and where we are with sponsorships today between brands and creators.
03:36Yeah, for sure.
03:38It's interesting to see how it's evolved because back in the day, and still by and large, this is probably
03:42the majority of deals.
03:44Like, brands go to creators and do one-offs and approach it almost through more of the lens of like
03:50a media buy.
03:53You know, they're focused on impressions.
03:54But the relationship that the creators have with their audiences is much more of like a, it feels like a
03:59scalable friendship.
04:00It's a parasocial relationship and it's built on trust and credibility.
04:04And I think the savvy brands understand that it's important to invest and partner with creators long-term.
04:10And you're seeing a number of brands do this more and more and bring creators in as, you know, on
04:15the cap table, bringing them in as partners.
04:19You know, we saw Ridge Wallet bring Marques Brownlee in as a creative director.
04:23And so really co-creating.
04:25And I think that co-creation and collaboration is key to longevity because at the end of the day, if
04:31you're doing a bunch of one-offs,
04:33you leave yourself open to other brands swooping in.
04:36And that dilutes the trust and credibility of both the brand and the creator long-term.
04:40Let's talk about what some of the smart brands are doing out there.
04:44I want to start with Unilever.
04:45They recently announced that they're moving from 30% to 50% of their entire social, entire ad budget moving
04:52to social.
04:53They're going to 20x what they do with creators.
04:54They're working not just with big creators but with micro-creators and nano-creators.
04:59I'd love to talk a little bit about what that means about influence and how it's taken its place at
05:05the right place, the right time at the table for brands
05:09and how they reach out to their audiences and how they reach out to their customers.
05:13Neil, talk about Unilever.
05:16You work with them.
05:16I think everybody here works with Unilever.
05:18Talk about how that Unilever shift is happening and what that means more broadly.
05:21You know, I think the actual important thing there is that message came from the CEO, Fernando, the new CEO
05:28of Unilever, that gave that message out there.
05:30We've also seen the CMO of Visa talk a lot about creators lately.
05:34It's the fact that it's now a conversation at C-Suite that's changing the game.
05:38I think I wrote recently it's gone from a marketing footnote to a boardroom priority.
05:43I think it was also happening because, you know, micro-creators are thriving in niche communities
05:48and we've also moved from a world where the follower algorithm still applies but the content algorithm.
05:54So a small creator can make something really interesting that can go viral and get a lot of views.
05:59And it isn't just about who follows you.
06:01And so the landscape has just kind of broadened.
06:03I think the same rules still apply that applied previously.
06:07And then on the other side, you've got sports stars, musicians, actors and actresses that are becoming creators.
06:13I mean, Will Smith did this very early on or Dwayne The Rock Johnson, like, embracing this community.
06:18And I just think it's kind of like these things take time and every extra mention of it in an
06:23important place
06:23raises the entire profile for creators and of the creator economy.
06:27And then that gets through to budgets.
06:29Because big brands plan years out, right?
06:31Like, a marketing budget is really baked the year before on the planning and strategy that they're going to do
06:36because they've got to brief their media agencies, their creative agencies, their PR agencies.
06:40All of these things take time.
06:42So I would say there's probably like a 12 to 18 month delay in what you see happen in big
06:47advertisers
06:48versus where the actual possibility is.
06:51And so I just think you're seeing the impact of all of that.
06:53And so I think Unilever making that announcement is going to make another big shift in 18 months
06:57where lots of others catch up.
06:59But they're certainly therefore operating at the forefront.
07:02And I was struck by the fact that they're talking to a lot of nano and micro creators in India,
07:06very local, very community driven.
07:09Let's talk a little bit.
07:10First of all, let's define micro, nano, main, major, whatever these levels of creators are.
07:16Brendan, want to take a stab at that?
07:17Sure.
07:18I mean, everybody's got their own definitions.
07:20And I would say based off each platform, it's going to vary dramatically.
07:24But like the macro creator, you know, might be a million plus.
07:27And mid creator, maybe 500,000 to a million.
07:30And then micro, you know, tends to be, you know, 10,000, 20,000 or so.
07:35But it's going to vary.
07:36And I think one thing worth taking a look at is oftentimes people focus on the follower count.
07:42But to your point about like the interest graph, that really has disrupted everything.
07:46So it's like you can't rely on a creator's following to really inform all your decision making.
07:51You've really got to look into the broader analytics and look at a creator holistically.
07:56Like, you know, how frequently are they posting?
07:58What's their average engagement rate?
08:00What's their growth rate?
08:01Which is oftentimes one of the biggest indicators of like how well their content is going to perform.
08:05And so those older metrics I think oftentimes don't necessarily apply.
08:12So that's an anecdote.
08:14And you're, you know, at 17 million plus, you're definitely one of the top creators out there.
08:19How do you see that?
08:20And how does your relationship with other creators and brands change?
08:23And what do you think the right way to work with it is?
08:25Talk about being a really big creator but looking at the landscape of creators.
08:29Yeah, so first of all, I have three separate brands.
08:32And that's when we're talking about like niche and everything.
08:35I don't want to be just a broad creator who talks about everything.
08:39So I decided to separate my brands.
08:40I have Silicon Valley Girl, which is more like business, podcast.
08:43I have Lingua Marina, which is languages.
08:45And then Marina Mogilco, which is a vlogging channel.
08:47And I feel like it's really, first of all, it's easier for me to switch between them
08:51because I have multiple personalities that I want to express.
08:55But also for advertisers, when I work with them, they know which audience they're getting
08:59when they're buying from a certain channel.
09:02And, you know, I started with like one-off brand deals.
09:05We're doing a lot of them.
09:06And then I realized, you know, first of all, it's bad for the brand if they're just one of many.
09:11And people hear about them in my vlog and they're like, oh, it's just another brand deal.
09:16So a couple of years ago, we started doing more long-term deals, like half a year deals
09:21when I'm mentioning the product all the time.
09:23And it's not just mentioning the product.
09:25It's being part of the company, right?
09:26I'm going to events.
09:27I'm interviewing their CEOs.
09:29It's building this kind of ambassador relationship.
09:32And I've heard that more and more creators, like larger creators, they are just not doing paid deals anymore.
09:39They're just doing stock deals because they're not interested in cash flow.
09:42They're now interested in ownership.
09:43And we see people like Diary of a CEO, they have their own investment fund, which is a huge part
09:49of their company.
09:50And I feel like it's another great way to have longevity as a creator.
09:55Because, again, you don't want to just depend on brand deals.
09:58You don't want to depend on market cycles.
10:00You want to build a business that's going to last for 10, 20 years or more.
10:04I want to talk about one of the things you brought up, which is sort of that shifting dynamic of
10:08power between brands and creators.
10:1110 or 15 years ago, it felt like the brand was in charge and the creators, even though they may
10:15not have wanted to,
10:17had to basically do what the brand said.
10:19Now, as you talked about, you've diversified yourself into multiple different areas.
10:22You're building products.
10:24You're creating companies and doing so many different things.
10:27Neil, as an agency where you work with brands on one side and creators on the other,
10:31you have to do talent management.
10:33Do you feel like the power is shifting from brands to creators?
10:36And if so, how is that manifesting itself?
10:39And is this a good thing?
10:43The end result is better work.
10:45There's kind of more respect between the two parties.
10:48So I think it started off with, look, creators had to, in the nascent part of this industry,
10:53had to take any opportunities that were there to fund and invest and back what they were then doing.
10:58Now that there's kind of more of a mutual respect and understanding between the two,
11:02the best work comes because then it's a true collaboration between like a brand coming to Maroon and saying,
11:07the two most important words are like, what is your audience and what is your expertise?
11:11And then how can I leverage both of those things in the right way through you as the Sherpa of
11:16understanding that
11:17to make my brand better reach that audience?
11:19And so when that kind of mutual respect there, I think the, it used to be before the word was
11:23authenticity.
11:24You've got to find authentic collaborations, but then the respect wasn't necessary there.
11:28Now that power has shifted.
11:29It's like, there's a mutual respect of like, I really want to learn from Marina.
11:32How have you built this business?
11:33How have you built this audience?
11:35How do you communicate with them?
11:37You know, I think, I know you want to talk about later, but like there's, we're talking about like,
11:40creators are becoming brands.
11:42Marina has built multiple brands.
11:44Brands are becoming creators.
11:45They're becoming storytellers.
11:46And so actually both parties are learning from each other.
11:49How do you build a successful business?
11:51And then how do you tell story and build community?
11:53So yeah, it's definitely been a shift and I think it leads to better work and better opportunities as well.
11:59I agree.
12:00And I think it's really interesting seeing over the last couple of years,
12:03a lot of the questions that the brands used to be asking of the creators,
12:07the creators are asking the brands like in terms of like brand safety.
12:10It's like that you see a lot of creators asking, look, what if the brand is involved in a controversy?
12:15How can I like divest myself from that relationship and stuff?
12:19And because they have the power of choice.
12:21They've got the audience.
12:22They've got the leverage as a result, which I think is pretty fascinating to see.
12:29It's also been a professionalization on both sides.
12:32Like creators have also professionalized and learned more about how to work with brands and the advertising industry.
12:37The fact that we're here, the fact that creators are showing up at more industry shows and events and being
12:42on stages.
12:42So there's also just a natural professionalism that comes through understanding both sides that wasn't there before either.
12:49So I want to break you into two groups here.
12:51I've got a creator on one side, play me the role of the creator, and I've got agencies on the
12:55other side.
12:56Tell me, let's start with you, Marina.
13:00Tell me, what is a perfect brand deal look like from your perspective?
13:04What do you want from a relationship with a brand?
13:07What makes it work?
13:09Yeah, absolutely.
13:10I feel like it starts with me liking the product and ideally using the product all the time in my
13:15team.
13:16So me going really deep into what they're building.
13:20And then it's a 360 relationship.
13:22I'm mentioning them in my videos.
13:25I'm doing their conferences or company events.
13:28I'm interviewing their founders or CEOs.
13:31So it's just, I'm associated with that brand now.
13:34And that's a perfect relationship.
13:36You know what's interesting?
13:37What did she not mention?
13:39Money.
13:41It's part of it, of course.
13:43But it's not something, you know, money is there on the market, right?
13:46It's how do you build something meaningful?
13:48How do you build something lasting and not betray your audience who's trusting you?
13:52Because they're going to buy the product.
13:53And if they don't like the product, they're going to come back to me and say like,
13:56Hey, you're recommending really shitty products.
13:59I'm not going to watch your channel and I'm not going to buy things that you recommend.
14:02So I have to be responsible for what I'm talking about.
14:05So I want to make sure it's a good product, right?
14:07Yeah.
14:08Something I started hearing a couple of years ago from creators, which I had not heard before, is they said,
14:11I turned down a huge brand deal because it wasn't right for my community.
14:16It wasn't right for my audience.
14:17And the idea from a creator perspective that their community is more important than the money from the brand is
14:22a real sea change.
14:23I think we've seen evolve over the last couple of years.
14:25Turning it over to you guys, Neil, start with you and Brendan, lean in.
14:28What makes it perfect from a brand and an agency perspective to do something with a creator?
14:35I think the 360 word, you know, it's about squeezing the juice out of it for both sides to make
14:41it really worth it.
14:42So because you said Unilever, let's give a Unilever example.
14:45I think this was in the German market with Magnum, the ice cream brand.
14:48They worked with a bunch of creators and then the digital out of home was creator led.
14:5310 second ads.
14:54Then they did a competition with creators to design a menu item for the Magnum pop-up store.
15:01The audience weren't voting on the creator, they were voting on the recipe item.
15:04And then that recipe item was selected and was a permanent feature in the Magnum pop-up store.
15:09So you know, it had gone from social to digital out of home to IRL activation in the store.
15:13I think it's like, how can I embrace this holistically, use it in a 360 way?
15:19The brand squeezes more juice out of it.
15:21It's a deeper partnership for the creator, which also does mean more money.
15:24But more money because you're doing more things to drive more action.
15:26The brand gets a far better ROI from it.
15:29So I think it's about it moving out of just this digital social channel and seeing how it can be
15:34leveraged in all these different ways.
15:35And I think that, you know, Unilever did a really smart way there with Magnum.
15:39Yeah, I agree.
15:39And I think along those lines, like oftentimes it's doing what others don't like.
15:44Everybody sort of thinks of creators as purely online.
15:47So they almost treat it as like, oh, we'll just do the deal over email and phone and knock it
15:51out.
15:51But the partnerships that have gone much deeper tend to be the most impactful.
15:59And so bringing people into the real world, doing in-person events, activations, onboardings, like all those things so that
16:07the creator can get, I mean, I don't want to speak for you.
16:09I'm curious your take, but like can feel emotionally invested in it and get insight.
16:14And like people having face time goes such a long ways.
16:17And oftentimes people are like, well, I can get the content without doing all this stuff.
16:21But it's like if they're going to be an ambassador for your brand, don't you want them to really understand
16:25it?
16:26In which case you should treat them like you would treat another partner, like an agency partner and bring them
16:30into the fold, do a real onboarding, show them a good time, get them excited.
16:34That stuff makes a big difference.
16:36Marina, any response to your agency counterparts here?
16:39No, absolutely.
16:40I want to do a quick little lightning round.
16:42Creators are absolutely becoming brands.
16:45You see it from Prime Hydration, from Mr. B's Chocolate, all that stuff, the stuff you're building.
16:49Should brands become creators?
16:52Look at Duolingo.
16:53How many people are familiar with the bird?
16:55Duolingo, loves Duolipa.
16:57Absolutely.
16:58That brand is a creator.
17:01Overall, should creators, should brands become creators?
17:05Who wants to pick that up first?
17:06Go ahead.
17:07I actually see a lot of brands hiring creators full-time so that creators can create content for them.
17:12And I feel like it's a, you know, con-creation becomes commoditized.
17:16Kind of we see, what, 2 million creators being full-time in the U.S. alone.
17:20And it's a job now.
17:22So you can get hired by a company.
17:24And there is this thing called employer, employee-generated content.
17:28EGC, employee-generated content.
17:29Yeah, when you ask your employees to re-con, absolutely.
17:32And companies have to embrace that.
17:34And companies have to have their own voice on the platform.
17:37And it's amazing that it's happening.
17:39You know, 10 years ago when I came to Silicon Valley, and I was like,
17:42we raised money for a company, and I was storing all the offices,
17:45and I was saying like, hey, I'm a YouTuber.
17:47And people were like, oh, my daughter watches slime videos on YouTube.
17:51I know what you're talking about.
17:53I'm talking about, like, business, whatever.
17:55But now it's like the whole industry and companies are embracing it.
17:59Neil, should brands become creators?
18:01They already are.
18:03All right.
18:03I mean, at the end of the day, they've created brands.
18:06They create advertising.
18:07They create storytelling.
18:08They're building community amongst their customers.
18:10It's really, actually, the question is, should they adopt the tools
18:13that what we label as creators are using to build community and scale audience?
18:17I actually think it already exists in the DNA of brands,
18:20because I would say they are creators.
18:21They were creators before creators were creators.
18:23So I think it's, you know, Nike came out of a community of runners
18:26and everything like that.
18:27They were a creator building in that community to tell that story.
18:30So it's more, can they take that further and embrace the tools
18:34and operate at the scale and speed that someone like Marina gets to operate in?
18:38That's the bit that they fell behind on at large.
18:41So, yeah.
18:43Brendan, I want to lean into another trend for a minute here.
18:46We've talked a lot.
18:47We think a lot about the B2C creators, right?
18:50You've got the TikTokers, YouTubers, the Instagramers.
18:54But there's also a trend around the rise of the B2B creator, the business creators.
18:59And so you're running an agency now that's specifically around thought leadership
19:03and creators talking business to business.
19:07And it's primarily on LinkedIn these days.
19:09So talk to us a little bit about that trend and how that's developing
19:12and why there is this maybe fourth type of creator out there along with the ones that we see on
19:17some of the more traditional consumer platforms.
19:19Yeah, for sure.
19:20Yeah.
19:20Super bullish on LinkedIn and B2B as a whole.
19:23I feel like the industry is 10 or so years behind B2C.
19:28It feels like that era of YouTube in 2010 where it's very nascent.
19:34There's a few brand deals.
19:35Creators are sort of taking whatever deals they can get, more or less.
19:41But there's so much opportunity and momentum.
19:43And it feels like it's this inflection point because you've got, on LinkedIn in particular,
19:47a billion users, the most affluent audience, the most trusted platform, business decision makers.
19:53You don't have the, also at the same time, you don't have the sort of influence or inflation
19:57of the other platforms.
19:59The content, they over-index on who you've opted in to follow.
20:03So it's like a follower actually counts for something.
20:06You know, you don't have 80,000 accounts with over a million followers like you do on TikTok.
20:11So the content you see has real impact.
20:15And in addition to that, you've got LinkedIn investing heavily in facilitating creator brand partnerships.
20:23So in the last year, they rolled out thought leader ads.
20:26The ability to amplify influencer content and target it with paid media.
20:29This is something that all the other platforms have had for some time.
20:32But it's wildly effective and they're just rolling it out.
20:35And then they rolled out brand link, which is the ability to amplify creator content
20:40and run your pre-roll ads against it.
20:42So they're starting to get behind it.
20:44And there's a lot of momentum.
20:46You see creators doing a lot of the same things that they're doing on other platforms.
20:49Creators are launching brands.
20:51In the case of LinkedIn, oftentimes it's like educational products or software tools.
20:55So it's exploding and it's growing very, very quickly.
20:59All right. How many of you out here are on LinkedIn?
21:02If you didn't raise your hand, first of all, why not?
21:05How many of you are creators on LinkedIn and think of yourself as a creator on LinkedIn?
21:09So I will also say you all should be raising your hand.
21:13I've obviously led the witness here, but Neil, you also work LinkedIn creators on the B2B side.
21:17Talk about how you see this developing and let me know.
21:20Is thought leadership as a type of ad unit and a thing that happens, has that arrived yet?
21:24I also think it represents an interesting shift in the, you know, so when Spotify had some news, Spotify posted
21:32off their LinkedIn channel and Daniel Ek posted.
21:35Hearing from Daniel Ek, it got far more reach.
21:37Like it's hearing from the individuals in companies.
21:40Kind of it's, you know, the brick walls have been turned into glass and you'd like to hear from the
21:43individuals that are there.
21:44And we've talked about how the employee engagement user generates content, how employees create stuff.
21:48So, yeah, I think LinkedIn is one of the most kind of underpriced opportunities that there is out there at
21:53the moment of speaking with expertise.
21:54It is a like more about the entrepreneurial endeavor and business endeavor and entrepreneurs and stuff like that.
22:01It's not a really a consumer channel and I hope it doesn't go that way.
22:05There's a little bit of risk at times that it that it might.
22:09But, you know, it's also no different from, I think, like someone like Richard Branson, for example, or maybe we
22:15won't say Elon Musk now.
22:16But, you know, they built their brands for the individuals and companies want to hear from these individuals and consumers.
22:21It will help with recruitment. It will help with reaching new customers.
22:26I think how brands can turn all of their employees into helping them, you know, because every employee can share
22:31a post and talk about their experience at a brand.
22:33They kind of got an army of individuals that if you added it all up would be an incredible amount.
22:38So I think what Brandon's doing and it's very much an area to invest in and a big next chapter
22:42of the greater economy.
22:44Marina, you're, I mean, you do different things in different places.
22:48You're on YouTube, you do podcasting, you're on LinkedIn.
22:50How do you think about, or if you think about, am I the same person in all these different places
22:55or do I change my persona a little?
22:57How do you adapt to being, say, on a LinkedIn platform versus maybe on YouTube or somewhere else?
23:01Yeah, absolutely. They're all different platforms.
23:04And as a creator, you have to adjust your content for every single platform.
23:07Maybe it's the same idea, but you present it in a different way.
23:11On YouTube, you make a long form video. On Instagram, you make real.
23:14On LinkedIn, you'd rather post like a text plus some photos.
23:18Sometimes it's a short video.
23:20I don't think I'm a different personality.
23:22I feel like I'm speaking slightly different languages when I'm on different platforms
23:26because you just have to appeal to the algorithm as well, right?
23:30Because if you're just appealing to the audience, not appealing to the algorithm.
23:33It's not the right format. It's not going to promote you.
23:35So I have a team that helps me with that as well because I can't be everywhere at the same
23:40time.
23:41But ideas always come from me and we just put them in different formats to be on all the different
23:47platforms.
23:47Cool. All right. We've got a couple of minutes left.
23:49We're going to do a lightning round across a lot of topics.
23:51So real quick on and we're going to start with creators becoming big TV creators
23:57and becoming the next Hollywood studios is a trend we've seen happen.
24:02As we talked about up front, 12% of the people are watching YouTube on their TVs.
24:06That's more than anything else.
24:07But are creators the next big studios, media companies, platforms?
24:13Neil, is this a trend that you think is going to happen and we're going to wipe out all the
24:17other studios
24:18and creators are going to come in and it's going to be all on TV or is it something different?
24:22What do you think?
24:24It's an addition too.
24:25There's definitely going to be some loss and I think there's going to be some collaboration.
24:28But given what we said, YouTube is 12% of watch time on TVs in the US.
24:34I think it was Netflix is 7.6 and Amazon Prime is 3.4.
24:38So they already are on the home TV.
24:41My thing is when are they going to stop being called creators and it's just part of the entertainment economy?
24:45I mean, at what point does it become mainstream?
24:47So I think it's already there and we're seeing it.
24:49But I don't think it's going to destroy the other form of entertainment.
24:53I mean, there are big shows coming out all the time that are cultural icons that we all watch.
24:57There's great stuff being made.
24:59It's just in addition to.
25:01Brendan, is Darman going to be the next Paramount?
25:05I agree with what Neil was saying to be honest.
25:07I think Darman is a great example.
25:09It's like, I think it's in addition to.
25:11I think we often like to say it's going to be either or.
25:15It's going to be the death.
25:16You know, TV is not dead.
25:17It's bigger than ever in a lot of ways.
25:18But at the same time, YouTube is dominating TV.
25:21So I think it'll be just one more part of the ecosystem.
25:25Marina, what do you think?
25:26What part of television is your viewing now and what do you think it'll be in a few years?
25:29It's actually more and more.
25:31I was at YouTube a couple weeks ago and I was like, I don't see a lot of comments these
25:35days.
25:36And they're like, oh yeah, because like 40% is TV.
25:38No one's commenting with their remote or whatever.
25:41And to the studio's question, I feel like both will still exist.
25:45Because the original creator is someone in their bedroom with a camera being raw and authentic.
25:52So you do not necessarily go to YouTube for just a scripted show.
25:55You also go for this authenticity.
25:57So I feel like both are going to still exist.
26:00Yeah, we have peak TV.
26:01I think we're going to have peak creator TV in a couple of years.
26:04You may have heard that here first.
26:05We'll see.
26:05Let's talk about AI.
26:07You use AI and have basically not necessarily cloned yourself,
26:10but you can do what used to take you a lot of days and like four hours.
26:13You talk about it.
26:14What's up with AI with you?
26:16What do you think about it real quickly?
26:17It really helps repurpose content.
26:19It really helps manage processes within our team.
26:23Cloning myself as well sometimes when I'm traveling and I don't have access to the mic that I used.
26:28We just clone my voice, redo something.
26:30But yeah, AI is there and we have to embrace it.
26:33Brendan, how are you using AI to drive your business?
26:36A lot of stuff to make working more efficient,
26:38but I think in terms of how it applies to creators, I think it's worth noting that they're going to
26:43have a huge competitive moat.
26:44If content becomes so commoditized, anybody can spin stuff up.
26:48The people that are going to have a big competitive advantage are those that have a built-in community.
26:53So I think rather than creators getting wiped out by AI, I think they're going to be the ones that
26:58really thrive.
26:59Neil, what's your take on AI and the creator economy?
27:01I mean, it's probably not going to be exclusively this, but I think in the majority.
27:04You know, if you think about the corporate world, they basically say there are going to be companies that embrace
27:08AI,
27:09and there are going to be companies that don't exist anymore.
27:11I think there'll be creators that embrace AI, and there'll be creators that don't exist anymore.
27:15And it's not that AI is going to replace creators. There will be some AI-created creators in the same
27:20way that like,
27:20I hate to spoil it, Batman, Spider-Man, Wonder Woman are not real people.
27:24But I think any creator, you know, it's a tool to operate at a far greater scale than you can.
27:29So it's an ultimate democratizer where creators can compete with bigger companies.
27:33But I think it's going to be creators that use AI and probably not many creators otherwise if you're not
27:38using it.
27:38All right, last question, three words each. What should every CMO start doing that they're not as they work with
27:45creators?
27:46Brendan.
27:49Collaborate, simplify, co-create.
27:52It can be one phrase with three words.
27:54Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
27:59Wow.
28:02Listen, learn and teach. Just that mutual respect piece.
28:05Marina, what about you?
28:06Make relationships deeper.
28:08Make relationships deeper.
28:09All right.
28:10Thank you very much.
28:11Marina, Brendan, Neil, all of you.
28:13Diva Tech for having us here.
28:14CMO Summit.
28:15Enjoy the rest of it.
28:16And we are done.
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