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Influencer Economics
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00:00Sous-titrage Société Radio-Canada
00:53Professionnel Influencers' Economics
01:00Professionnel Influencers' Economics
01:01Professionnel Influencers' Economics
01:02Professionnel Influencers' Economics
01:06Professionnel Influencers' Economics
01:32Thanks for having me with you.
01:33Merci.
01:34Congratulations on making it to the stage.
01:36Thank you.
01:37I have on my left with Louis Holmes.
01:39You are Director of Creator Partnerships, EMEA at Meta.
01:43Welcome.
01:43Thank you for being here.
01:44Thank you.
01:45Nice to be here.
01:46And Romain Ponce, you are VP client development at DigiMind, an inclusive company.
01:52Welcome.
01:53Thanks a lot.
01:53Thank you so much for being here.
01:55I remind you all of the audience that you can ask your questions.
01:59Please do, don't be shy, you can be anonymous, and it helps a lot the debate, and also we answer
02:05your questions, which is exactly why you're here.
02:08So you just go, as you probably know, on the VivaTech app, and then you select stage two, and you
02:13can ask all of your questions.
02:15My first question to you is, just to introduce yourself and your work, very quickly, how do you work with
02:23influencers?
02:24Louise.
02:25Hi, everyone. I'm Louise Holmes. I'm the Director of Creator Partnerships for Europe, Middle East, and Africa, and my team
02:33partners with the most influential public figures and creators across the region, working hand-in-hand with them, so they
02:41get the most out of Facebook, WhatsApp, and Instagram.
02:45Romain.
02:46Hi, everyone. My name is Romain. I'm the Vice President of DigiMind, taking care of our clients worldwide, and on
02:53our side, we will be mainly focused on micro and nano influencers, so identifying them for the brands, and making
03:01sure that we shoot the right person for the right brands, for the right products, at the right time.
03:07Dédric, how do you work with influencers, and what do you do?
03:10Good question.
03:13Hi, I'm Dédric. I'm the CEO and co-founder of Tailify, and at Tailify, we help brands find influencers, and
03:19we do that using an AI which thinks and has been trained to think like a behavioral scientist to ultimately
03:25drive better results in our life for the brands.
03:29So, yeah, that's what we do.
03:30And we'll definitely know more about that in a few minutes, so...
03:33Hopefully.
03:34Thank you. So, we all are watching influencers online, for myself, on a daily basis, for lots of people who
03:42are probably very connected in the room as well.
03:44However, we don't necessarily know much about the market of influence. You do. That's great. That's exactly why we're here
03:52again.
03:52So, how does it work? Do you have maybe numbers to share with us, and, for instance, what's the global
03:59advertising budget spent on influencers every year?
04:02Dédric, if you want to start.
04:04Dédric, where does one start?
04:06Dédric, where does one start? So, if you look at numbers today, we're talking about about 20-ish billion dollars,
04:11which are spent directly on influencers and creators, which makes it fairly big.
04:17If you start looking at any spend, which goes to influencers and then amplified into other channels and platforms like
04:24Instagram and Facebook, numbers are about four to five times that size.
04:30Dédric, but actually, to make it a little bit more fun because you're in the audience, to get an understanding
04:34of how big the influencer economy has become, if you look at it today, the world's biggest TV channel is
04:41a YouTuber.
04:42The world's biggest podcaster.
04:44Sorry, the world's biggest radio is a podcaster.
04:47Last year, the world's biggest influencer was one single individual.
04:53Last year, that influencer was a Chinese influencer.
04:56It's called Lee Jacqui.
04:58In one day, more precisely, in 12 hours, he sold more product than Walmart did the same day and Amazon
05:05did the same.
05:05He sold products for $1.7 billion in 12 hours.
05:09So, we now live in a world where individual people are becoming bigger than traditional economies.
05:15In about 2040, in terms of employment, influencer will be the biggest industry in terms of employment, bigger than supermarkets,
05:24consumer tech, etc.
05:25So, influencers and the economy of influence is becoming much, much, much bigger than anyone ever thought would be possible.
05:33How did Walmart receive that?
05:35They went on to actually start building their own influencer platform.
05:39Really?
05:39Yeah.
05:40Oh my goodness.
05:41So, imagine like your Walmart, you have 400,000 employees trained to sell things.
05:46And then one guy with a webcam comes and beats you.
05:51That's a modern-day David and Goliath story, if you ever heard one.
05:53That must hurt.
05:54Yeah.
05:55Yeah, I'd be worried if I were them.
05:57Yes.
05:57Romain, do you want to share something?
05:59I could add some stuff around that to make you aware of how important influencers are now for the brands.
06:06If you talk to marketers, actually 80% of the brands, it will be for you, Louise, are saying that
06:14Instagram is the most important social media for them.
06:19And there's a reason why.
06:21Because actually, when you run an influencer's campaign through Instagram, 87% of the listeners or the people who will
06:30receive this message will have an interaction after that.
06:34Meaning liking, sharing, commenting for sure.
06:37But as well, visiting the store in real life or buying directly.
06:43So, that's how important it is for the brands today.
06:49And if you compare, for instance, the communication through an influencer, 60% of the audience will be really keen
06:56to appreciate the message and to valorize that.
07:01And it's going to be only 40% if it's coming from directly the brand.
07:06That's how important it is today for the business.
07:11What changes have you witnessed since this market existed?
07:16And what are the trends?
07:18What trends are you expecting, Louise, if you want to start?
07:21I think one of the things we're noticing is that being an influencer, being a creator, is now a possibility
07:30as a sustainable career.
07:32It was once viewed as being a somewhat kind of chancy side hustle.
07:36And now as the creative economy is maturing, we're seeing that the professional services around creators are really increasing.
07:45So, we're seeing creator unions take shape.
07:47We're seeing regulation coming in to protect creators' rights.
07:51And we're seeing that talent agencies and tools that help creators invoice, send out payments, these kind of things are
07:59happening,
07:59which really makes a possibility of making a living from being a creator a reality.
08:06What have you noticed since you've worked in that market?
08:10What changes and what trends do you think coming?
08:14We've been at this for nine years now.
08:18And as Louise was mentioning, in the beginning, an influencer, they were happy if a brand just wanted to work
08:25with them.
08:25They maybe get like five pounds, ten pounds, or euros, as we say here in Paris.
08:30But now, it's gone from side hustles to full-time jobs.
08:35If you ask, there was a study in the U.S. which asked, there was youth 12 to 15, what
08:41you want to do when you grow up?
08:43YouTube creators, influencers.
08:47And it's been, and it used to be considered as kind of a niche, weird thing.
08:51And now, when we see with youth, what we're seeing with money starting to flow, it's just changed the entire
08:56industry and made it professional.
08:58But it's still Wild West-y because it's 10 years old, it's still in its infancy, but it's maturing very,
09:03very quickly.
09:03And I have to give a shout-out to creators and influencers of the world because they're just adapting quickly
09:08and actually taking, turning this into their full-time jobs.
09:12So, respect to the hustlers out there.
09:16Romain, how do you work with brands?
09:19Like, I'm a brand, I have a brand.
09:21How do I choose the influencers I work with?
09:25Just to remind you that on our side, social media listening tools, such as Digimind, will be really focused on
09:33micro and nano influencers.
09:36So, nano influencers are from zero to 1,000 followers.
09:40And micro-influencers will be until 100,000 people.
09:46So, our tool will, and we will work on historical data for that.
09:52We will try to target the right people, so to listen to what they said already, the quality of their
10:00narrative, the quality of their pictures, making sure that we are identifying the proper people.
10:07We will look at several things, such as when they posted, where they posted, on which social media, because we
10:14are agnostic on that.
10:16We want to know, as well, what was the sentiment of the audience behind that.
10:21Was it positive, negative, what were the reactions, the interaction, what we got, comments, like.
10:30So, that's going to be the first part, if I can say so.
10:33So, the quality, their audience, we will make sure that they are in the right country, for sure.
10:40They will have the good demographics, and then we will try to, like, identify some KPIs that might be different
10:51from one brand to another.
10:52But the brand will want to increase that turnover, for instance, or just want to make sure that they will
10:59gain share of voice, or interaction, or reach.
11:04So, it's going to be the way that we'll work with them.
11:09On the other side, there may be some people in the room who want to be an influencer.
11:15What makes an influencer a good influencer?
11:18What advice would you give him or her?
11:21Louise?
11:22I think the creators that we've seen become the most successful are those who really have a clear point of
11:29view.
11:29They find their own voice.
11:31They differentiate themselves.
11:32They have a signature style.
11:34If you think of someone like Cabby, his famous shrug, that is his identifier, and they know what they stand
11:40for.
11:41I think the second thing that's really important is engaging and interacting and getting to know your communities.
11:48Listening to their feedback, engaging with their comments, because they're going to be your biggest cheerleaders and fans.
11:54They're the people who are going to buy your products, engage with your content.
11:57So, you have to reward that community, let them in, and get to know them.
12:01And the final thing I'd say is that you really need to experiment.
12:04Use the latest tools and technologies.
12:07Jump on trends.
12:08Set trends.
12:09And don't be afraid that it's always got to be polished and perfect, because that's not what audiences want.
12:14They want to see the behind the scenes and how you get to that point.
12:18So, I think they would be the key things that we've seen.
12:21And I think creators that have really done well in terms of going beyond promoting other people's brands, but actually
12:28launching brands of their own, like if you think of Logan Paul and KSI, who launched their Prime Energy drink.
12:35They're creators who really have a clear point of view and a real community, and that's what they've leveraged to
12:42get to the point of being brand owners themselves.
12:45You work with some of the most influential influencers in the world.
12:50What makes them influential compared to the rest of influencers who are already obviously doing great, but the top percent?
12:58I mean, I think it goes back to the things that we've just talked about in terms of having a
13:02clear point of view and knowing your audience.
13:05But I think it's fair to say, as Diedrich and Roman have already said, this really is a golden era
13:10for creators right now that we're entering into.
13:13If you think about it, creators hold the keys to all the kingdoms, that's how I think of it, the
13:19three C's, if you like, because they build communities, they create engaging content, and they drive culture.
13:27And those three things are really in demand, and that's why platforms like us want them, that's why consumers can't
13:33get enough of them, and that's why brands really want to influence their power and their potential.
13:38So if right now is the best era, what is it going to be in 10 years, do you know?
13:44Is it still going to be, you think, a good time for creators?
13:48I mean, I think there's really a seismic shift in power that's happening right now from corporations, institutions, towards individuals
13:59and creators.
14:00And I think this is because people really want to live their lives through the lens of their favourite creators,
14:07athletes, public figures, comedians.
14:09And there's a really great example of this we saw last week when Lionel Messi, the footballer, moved from Paris
14:17Saint-Germain to Inter Miami.
14:19And what happened in 24 hours, we saw that Inter Miami grew their Instagram following by 3.7 million.
14:28And that's not because of them as a football club, that's because of the individual, Messi, that went there.
14:33And that really just illustrates the point of the power moving towards creators.
14:38And I think when you add into that technologies like Web 3.0 and blockchain, they're really giving much more
14:44autonomy to creators than before.
14:45They can control their own IP, and ultimately, with interoperability of content across platforms, they'll own their own audiences.
14:53When you own your audience and you own the financial dynamics and relationship that go with that, you really hold
14:59the power.
15:00And just to quote Nas Daly, who's one of our biggest creators on Facebook, he talks about the days of
15:06creators building their empires on rented land being over.
15:11Because the future will really be one where creators own their IP, they could sell equity in their future, in
15:19their brands, and really describe the future on their terms, not on the terms of platforms like ours.
15:25So I think that's where we see the direction of power going.
15:29Didrik, do you want to add something to that?
15:32I think actually Luis did that brilliantly.
15:35I'd just say, yeah, I'd follow up.
15:37It's a golden era.
15:38There's about 100 million influencers today who have lovely companies like yourself building for them.
15:45Ownership is moving towards them, and audiences want them.
15:49In about 10 years, I think we'll have another 100, maybe 200 million people like that who can go online.
15:56And maybe this is a little bit too philosophical, but go online and do what they want to do and
16:02be who they are.
16:03And now there's actually a chance for people to just make money by doing what they actually want, just unleash
16:10creativity.
16:11And with technology platform and ownership coming, and everyone with smartphones being able to now create,
16:18I think we're going to enter a new renaissance period where people's creativity and authenticity will be released and rewarded
16:25and create a pretty decent world.
16:28So yeah, I'm optimistic.
16:29According to you, is there still some room for new influencers, new creators to enter the market?
16:35Or does it begin to be saturated?
16:38Just give up, no more space.
16:40Yeah, right?
16:41No, no, no, no, no.
16:42This has just started.
16:44Okay.
16:45Just started.
16:46Okay.
16:46Just started, but we know, for example, on Instagram and Facebook, we've got over 95 million creators out there already.
16:53So it's competitive.
16:55Yeah.
16:55I think that's why having your own point of view and standing out is really important because there are a
16:59lot of creators out there.
17:01Okay.
17:01So you need to...
17:02Sorry, I'll actually just add on.
17:03On traditional platforms, yes.
17:06Then there's this little thing called TikTok, which came along and voila, a couple of new creators.
17:10And in a couple of years, there will be a new TikTok.
17:13And after that, there will be a new of the new one.
17:15And there's an overall theme we're seeing.
17:17We're seeing more different types of platforms popping up and everything.
17:22There's a social network for people who like fishing in Sweden.
17:26And there's a couple of million people on that platform.
17:29And we're starting to get fishing influencers.
17:31On the fishing platform.
17:32Yeah.
17:32Incredible.
17:33I'm an angler myself, so I know about this.
17:35But yeah, it's wild.
17:36But yeah, opportunities will be everywhere.
17:37So do you think we'll see new platforms of niche, like very specific coming up?
17:44Yeah.
17:45New large platforms and formats and the niche stuff.
17:49Okay.
17:50Yeah.
17:50That's something really interesting.
17:51And especially with TikTok, Luis talked a lot about macro influencers.
17:56And these guys are on Facebook, on Instagram.
18:01If you look at the top influencers, they were already known and they are using their influence
18:06on your platform.
18:07But if you look at TikTok, for once, all the macro influencers coming from TikTok, raised on
18:13TikTok, were born on TikTok.
18:15So that's a switch as well that we are facing for once.
18:18And I do agree with both of you, in fact, regarding authenticity niche as well.
18:23We are finding more and more experts on what specific things that have lower followers, but who have more interaction,
18:33who have more sensibility, authenticity, and that have more impact, in fact.
18:38Because when you look at TikTok, I mean, for micro influencers, they transform that into business really fast.
18:48It's 18% of the audience on micro influencers that you can turn into business directly.
18:55It's massive.
18:56Yeah.
18:56It's really massive.
18:58I want to actually, do we have time to jump on?
19:00Sure.
19:01Yeah.
19:01So you mentioned, you asked me a question earlier on, like, what are things you see changing?
19:06And is there room for new creators?
19:07And you mentioned the word authenticity, which I like authenticity.
19:11Now, there's a big debate of what authenticity is.
19:13We've quantified it with our AI, so that's fun.
19:15We can talk more about that later.
19:16But a trend which we're seeing is, go back a couple of years, there was tons of influencers.
19:25There was a lot of bad influence, which is why influencers got a little bit of a bad rep in
19:29the early days.
19:30But the trends you started seeing when we started actually analyzing these patterns, fake creators, i.e. people who just
19:37weren't their authentic self,
19:38and you can actually track and measure this, they slowed down in their growth and then died off.
19:43But the people, the ones you're talking about, the people with, like, a point of view, there's a couple of
19:48them.
19:48And you see every great creator is authentic to themselves.
19:53And you can measure this, we do that across 169 different variables.
19:56And you can see just people who are themselves shined.
19:59And that, to me, makes, again, me, myself optimistic about the sector because the people who actually are themselves and
20:06add value are the ones that are lifted up by the platforms.
20:10And that's why I like particularly, like, with more and more new platforms, we start seeing this being the case
20:15as well.
20:16So, obviously, we are going to talk about AI because I don't think there's one single panel in VivaTech where
20:20we don't talk about AI.
20:22So, that's now.
20:23I have a question.
20:24You talked about authenticity.
20:27Of course, a human can see, feel if someone in front of him or her is authentic.
20:33Can AI measure that by movements and stuff?
20:38I've spent the last eight years of my life dedicated to answer that thing.
20:42Did you succeed?
20:43No.
20:47So, it's, well, we're on the stage speaking about influencer economics.
20:51And in economics, we typically think about numbers.
20:53And it's quite sad our industry today gets it wrong.
20:58Like, when you actually look at brands working with influencers and you actually look at results, results are, in general,
21:04actually fairly poor.
21:05And then when you ask brands, how do you select influencers?
21:10They go, well, we look at followers, engagement rate, demographics, the metrics which are available on the platforms.
21:17And to your point, if we meet as two human beings, and would you evaluate me by being 33 years
21:24old, living in London, a couple of followers in Norway, 186 tall?
21:28It says nothing about who I am and if we're going to have fun together as a relationship of sort.
21:33That's true.
21:34So, to your question, can an AI do that?
21:36Yeah.
21:36Thanks to lots of good development in AI, we built an AI which technically looks at all of an influencer's
21:43posted content throughout history.
21:46And then a little bit like a Sigmund Freud on steroid where the influencers come in, lie down on a
21:50bed and get psychoanalyzed, we do that just at scale across 100 million influencers.
21:55And then on the back of that, based on about 169 different variables, which include personality, tone of voice, values,
22:03things which human beings decide on love and friendship in life, we can profile them and we can profile brands.
22:09And the interesting thing is when that is a match, authenticity thrives.
22:14The audience goes, I had such a cool partnership, this feels really authentic.
22:19What happens on the back of that?
22:21Results go up.
22:22So, in this world where the online world isn't around websites any longer, it's about people connecting with people.
22:30Which means we need to understand people like they are people and help brands connect with influencers and creators for
22:36the people who they are.
22:37And when we do that, we can have an economy which thrives.
22:40So, that was a long answer to it.
22:42Yes, AI can do it.
22:43And it's fascinating, at least in my opinion.
22:45It's a long panel.
22:46We still have time.
22:47Don't worry.
22:48Louise, do you work with AI at Meta?
22:51Yeah, we're super excited about AI.
22:53I think it's going to be a game changer for content creation, distribution, and audience engagement.
22:59And at Meta, we're beginning to develop our first generative AI models in text, video, and images, which will be
23:07integrated into our family of apps.
23:09So, that's really exciting.
23:10They'll be built into Instagram and Facebook.
23:13And what this means is that you can create really rich 3D content at the touch of a button.
23:20And it could be a simple object, it could be a character, or it could be an entire world in
23:25the metaverse.
23:26And what this does is it really equalizes content creation, not just for creators, but for advertisers,
23:32who no longer have to put the big budgets behind creating, filming, generating campaigns.
23:38But I think also in terms of distribution, it's going to really change the landscape.
23:42Because if you can imagine through speech-to-speech translation AI models, you could be a creator in Korea,
23:49and suddenly, through your own voice, connect and talk to an audience in France.
23:56So, the global limitations of your reach in terms of your native language spoken just disappear.
24:01So, I really do think it's going to open potential hugely in this place.
24:06Roman, do you use the AI?
24:08Of course.
24:10That was really important for us to develop that as well.
24:14On social media side, we will use it for both cases.
24:20The first one, and just to make you aware of what we are doing,
24:24so we are collecting data on social medias,
24:28and it can be millions of single mentions coming from Twitter, Meta,
24:35and we have to analyze that for the brands.
24:38And it's not feasible with an analyst.
24:42So, instead of using a panel, or just a small part of all of our mentions,
24:50now we are able to analyze the entire millions of mentions that we got
24:55to get the core and the best of that,
24:58and to provide to our brands, to our clients, a proper analysis of that.
25:03On the other side, the brands are keen to follow their influencers,
25:09and it can be a huge amount of people,
25:11and they want to know when they are creating a buzz,
25:16a bad or a good one,
25:18what's happening behind that?
25:20Who created that?
25:21What was the first mention?
25:23On which media?
25:23What was the reach?
25:24And it's not feasible as well to do it on a daily basis with analysts.
25:29And that's where AI is coming.
25:31And it's popping, analyze it directly,
25:34and it creates an alert to our brands,
25:36letting them know what's happening,
25:38and the context, which is the most important.
25:41I think there's a really interesting area around AI creators.
25:46So, fully AI-generated personalities.
25:49We're only just beginning to understand the potential use cases for AI.
25:53But if you think of the day when each of us might have a personal assistant in AI
25:58that helps us keep on track of things,
26:00or we might have a life coach by us,
26:03an AI life coach who helps us make decisions at every moment of the day,
26:08and think of a world where you might have an AI version of your favorite creator
26:13who so finely represents that individual,
26:16you could interact with them at any point of the day
26:18as if they were Taylor Swift or Lionel Messi, whoever it might be.
26:23So, I think that's where things get really interesting.
26:27Right now, there aren't many creators in that space.
26:30There's a couple of AI-generated personalities like Lil Mikaela and Le Chat,
26:34who have millions of followers.
26:36But beyond that, I think until the worlds blend,
26:40where we become more comfortable living in a metaverse, immersive society,
26:45where our avatars look no different to theirs,
26:49and there are a billion avatars already across at least the meta family of apps,
26:54I think at that point you'll start accepting the influence
26:57of these virtual creators in that space,
27:00and that will be another leap forward, I think.
27:03We have lots of questions from the audience, so I'm going to start, if that's okay.
27:08What about influencers for corporate communication
27:10to change perceptions on sustainability, diversity and inclusion, talent acquisition?
27:17Who wants to jump in?
27:19It's happening.
27:24Yeah, I think this is one of my, I don't know, pet hates, strong, strong views,
27:32and I know creators have it too.
27:34I think corporations and brands need to be really careful about riding a cause wave.
27:41So, just using creators to champion sustainability,
27:45because that happens to be your thing at the moment.
27:47Or right now, if you think about it being Pride Month,
27:50you get many brands who just want to work with creators in the LGBTQ plus community,
27:55because this is the moment to do that,
27:57and they do it for the short term, for that moment, and then they move on.
28:00So, I think brands have to be really careful about how they use creators for these causes.
28:05And if I think to an example in the UK,
28:08we have a creator called Lucy Edwards,
28:10who's got the most fabulous auburn hair.
28:14And Pantene, the shampoo brand, have worked with her,
28:16they've used her as a face of their campaigns.
28:19But the relationship goes much, much deeper than that.
28:22And this is where it gets interesting,
28:23because Lucy happens to be a blind creator.
28:27And what Procter & Gamble have done is work with Lucy,
28:30work with her community,
28:31to actually make a change of installing NaviLens onto their products,
28:38so that the visually impaired community can learn more about the products
28:41and the bottles of shampoo that they're buying.
28:43So, that relationship is not about a kind of one post, one cause.
28:47It's the month for black history.
28:48It's the month for sustainability.
28:50It's that long-term relationship,
28:52and that's really where the benefit of working with creators and brands together comes.
28:58Actually, I'll jump on and I should talk about it from the opposite side.
29:04So, there's a bunch of brands that are, to your point,
29:06companies trying like, oh, how can we also be cool?
29:08Let's get some cool people to say that we're nice,
29:10we care about sustainability, et cetera.
29:13But, there's an interesting trend going on in the opposite direction,
29:17where influencers are forcing brands to become more sustainable.
29:22And we had a story of a, actually a French beauty brand,
29:25not the one you're thinking of,
29:28who a couple of years ago came to us,
29:31and they were complaining because they had tried to launch a product,
29:36a concealer of sort,
29:38and they wanted to do it with influencers because, of course,
29:41you would if you're smart.
29:44Influencers said, no, we don't want to work with you
29:47because the skin range of your product is just not inclusive.
29:52So, fuck you.
29:54And the brand then were like, oh, okay, well, they actually were good.
29:59They went back, they stopped the product launch,
30:01they developed, they changed it, more inclusive range, good,
30:04came back to the creators,
30:06and then the creators still said,
30:08actually, we don't want to work with you,
30:09you just did this because you actually need to sell the product
30:13and want to work with us.
30:14You didn't do this because it actually came from an authentic place.
30:17So, and this is back to the power moving from companies to people,
30:22influencers are guardians of their communities.
30:25They're a little bit like union leaders,
30:27where previously, we as consumers, we had no power,
30:30but now our elected leaders, the influencers creators of the world,
30:33they have power, and they care, and they build beliefs,
30:37and they're not going to sell out because if they sell out,
30:39they know, their audience will know it,
30:41and then they will lose their credibility and trust,
30:43and trust is an important little currency in our world.
30:47So, yeah, I'm, again, optimistic
30:49because influencers are pushing brands to do the right thing,
30:53whether they like it or not,
30:55and we end up in a nicer and better world.
30:58Okay.
30:59I will jump as well on that subject.
31:01That's clearly the way the brands are behaving at the moment.
31:05They are looking at their audience,
31:08trying to identify through our tools,
31:10the way, I mean,
31:11people who are spontaneously talking about their topic,
31:15talking about their brands, if possible,
31:17and identify these people,
31:20try to follow them from the beginning
31:22and analyze their audience,
31:24analyze their performance,
31:26and say, okay,
31:27these guys are good enough to be engaged,
31:28and they jump on this opportunity.
31:30So, I do align with you.
31:31I mean, there's a room for that,
31:33and that's the way the brands are more and more behaving in your area.
31:40Another question from the audience.
31:41Do we know the official amount of influencers in France, in Europe,
31:46as well as its evolution over the past years?
31:51I'm looking at the French team over there.
31:53Somebody must have an answer.
31:55I don't know.
31:57There's a lot.
31:58There's a lot,
31:58and we work with, you know,
32:01particularly our team,
32:02we work with the most celebrated influencers,
32:06the most powerful influencers.
32:08There's a lovely story over the last couple of weeks.
32:10We launched a new product yesterday
32:12called Instagram Broadcast Channels,
32:15and this is a product that is one to many.
32:18So, creator to fans.
32:20It gives creators the opportunity
32:22to connect with their audiences
32:23in a much more intimate way.
32:26And one of the French superstars
32:28that we worked with to launch this
32:30is a creator called Laina Mahfouf,
32:32and she had one of the highest uptake rates
32:36in this new product,
32:37Instagram Broadcast Channels,
32:38after Mark Zuckerberg,
32:40and our own founder.
32:42And this channel that now exists
32:44is a really intimate way
32:46for those conversations to happen.
32:48Fans can ask questions.
32:50They can join polls.
32:51And Laina, for example,
32:52can give behind-the-scenes tips.
32:54And her channel, if you follow it,
32:56is called Entre Nous,
32:57which really succinctly talks about
33:00the intimacy between us.
33:02and one of the first comments she made is,
33:04it's like talking to my mates.
33:06It's like a parler des potes between ourselves.
33:10So, this intimacy, these kind of things,
33:12that's the experimentation we do
33:14with some of the top creators.
33:15Do you have the number of people following her
33:17on that channel yet?
33:18I think at the moment,
33:19it's about 700,000.
33:22It's nearly, it was close to a million,
33:23I think, the last time.
33:25And she has something like
33:26four million people following her, right?
33:27Four million people?
33:28Yeah, I'm getting notes.
33:29Yes, yes, I follow her.
33:31So, yeah, okay.
33:33Do you want to...
33:35Yeah, I can add something to that.
33:37I mean, I told you that
33:39nano-influencers are from zero to 1,000 followers.
33:43So, basically, we are all influencers
33:46and we have an impact on our audience
33:49in some ways.
33:50So, it really depends
33:52what you call influencers.
33:54If you are thinking about macro-influencers,
33:56of course, there's way less.
33:58How many people in France?
33:5967 million?
34:0067 million, yeah.
34:02So, to you, Ross, the question,
34:03that's the answer.
34:04Yeah, yeah.
34:05That's a lot.
34:09I launched a podcast
34:10discussing mother-daughter relationships.
34:13French celebrities and influencers
34:14are my guests.
34:16How can I promote it further with influence?
34:20So, we talked a little bit
34:21about the tips you have for influencers.
34:24Do you have something else to share
34:25for that person?
34:28You should ask Louise, I guess.
34:30Hi.
34:31I mean, I think some of the things
34:32we talk about in terms of best practices
34:34is posting regularly,
34:37posting authentically,
34:38as you said, Diedrich,
34:39being true to yourself,
34:40getting to know your community,
34:42inviting them in,
34:43making sure you hear their feedback,
34:45you reward them,
34:46you give them behind-the-scenes tips,
34:48and collaborating.
34:49I think a really good way
34:51that we've seen influencers grow their reach
34:53is by working with other people
34:55within their community
34:56and beyond it
34:57because those collaborations
34:59reward both communities
35:00and give you access
35:01to immediately new pools
35:03of potential fans.
35:08Yeah, you have our company name.
35:10If you find us
35:10and shoot us an email,
35:12we're actually rolling out
35:13a course for creators
35:16which comes from a psychology
35:18and behavioral science point of view,
35:19but in short,
35:20it's teaching people
35:21to be their authentic selves.
35:23And actually,
35:23you said a couple of things
35:24around intimacy,
35:25which I quite like,
35:26which is the audiences
35:29just want to be treated,
35:31like you said,
35:31like they're friends.
35:34And we see this,
35:36and I'll take one example
35:37because I think it's a fascinating one.
35:38It's something,
35:39the word is called self-disclosure,
35:41which is a psychology word
35:42for how much you disclose
35:44about yourself.
35:45Yeah.
35:45So if often we are taught
35:48to be a little bit guarded
35:49with our deep selves
35:52and our beliefs,
35:53but what we see
35:53is influencers
35:54who are more open
35:56with their audiences
35:57about their feelings,
35:59their problems in life,
36:00their family,
36:01just be open,
36:02the more the audience
36:04trusts the creator back
36:05and the more they see
36:06their relationship
36:07as a friendly relationship.
36:10So it's just one
36:12of many examples
36:12to just be yourself
36:13and be open,
36:14be vulnerable.
36:15I always,
36:16because you mentioned it
36:17and we haven't talked
36:18about it properly,
36:19but you work with psychology
36:20and behavioral science.
36:22I always wonder
36:23if there are consequences
36:25for the influencers
36:27to share so much
36:28of their intimacy.
36:29Of course,
36:30there are benefits,
36:31but is there
36:32a psychological consequence
36:34for them,
36:35like overly sharing
36:36their life,
36:37for instance?
36:39That's a tricky question.
36:44so there's actually
36:45recently come out
36:46a little bit of studies
36:47on what being,
36:49the pressure of being
36:50an influencer
36:51or just pressure
36:51of being a celebrity.
36:53You have more and more
36:54eyes on you,
36:55which means you become
36:56more and more aware
36:57of what you do,
36:58which often can be
36:59a dangerous thing
37:00for a human being.
37:02If you want to,
37:03there's a million
37:04different strands
37:05of philosophies
37:06around how to think
37:07about mental health,
37:08but one of the clear ones
37:09is the more you are
37:12diverging from your
37:13authentic self,
37:14the more you struggle
37:15in life from a mental
37:16point of view.
37:17The more you are yourself
37:18to intrude to your values
37:21and your self-belief
37:21and who you are,
37:22the more you act accordingly,
37:24the more at peace
37:25you are with who you are.
37:26And again,
37:27this is for a creator,
37:28so if you're a creator
37:30kind of faking it
37:31and you have a million
37:33people viewing you
37:34and commenting,
37:35it's a sketchy territory.
37:36But if you lean into
37:39who you are
37:40and act authentically,
37:42you actually have
37:43a million people
37:43cheering for who you are
37:45and giving you fire
37:46and energy.
37:47And we see this again
37:48when you start going
37:49to comments,
37:49you look at the sentiment,
37:50you see what's going on.
37:51It's like having a million
37:52people cheering
37:53for who you are.
37:54And often in life,
37:56A, we're lucky
37:57if we get to be
37:57our authentic self
37:58and B, we're lucky
37:59if we get to be
38:00our authentic self
38:00to maybe have three friends
38:02and a partner
38:03who roots for us.
38:05So yeah,
38:06creators who can be lucky
38:07but again,
38:08be your authentic self.
38:10I'll probably say,
38:11I've said that enough times
38:12but hopefully
38:12it's starting to catch on.
38:16What do you think
38:17of public powers
38:19forcing influencers
38:20to publish
38:21and pin the communication
38:23of their condemnation
38:24on their own page
38:26for several weeks?
38:29I will jump on that.
38:31Since in France,
38:32it happened last week
38:35or two weeks ago.
38:37From our point of view,
38:39it's something really positive
38:40because, I mean,
38:42that was awaited
38:43from the audience.
38:45They were waiting for that.
38:47They appreciate it.
38:48and it's,
38:50I mean,
38:50that's the future as well.
38:51Regulation,
38:52making sure
38:53that things are in line
38:54with AI coming on top.
38:56It's going to be
38:57a major thing
38:58to make sure
38:59that we are not
39:00in face of fake news,
39:03that there's no manipulation.
39:05So that's something
39:06we are all aware of.
39:08We are on it.
39:09We want to make sure
39:09that it doesn't happen.
39:11But regulation
39:12is a key point
39:13and it was needed
39:14and I think
39:15it's going to make
39:17the market even bigger.
39:18Now it's cleaner
39:20than ever.
39:22I feel a great future
39:24for Influence
39:25in the coming years.
39:28I'm trying to see,
39:29sorry,
39:29if you want to jump,
39:30I'm just updating
39:31the questions
39:32to see if there are new ones.
39:33There's one actually about,
39:34how about at MCN companies,
39:37will they diversify the market,
39:39create more profit
39:39or do they limit
39:40the diversity
39:41of the content creation?
39:43who wants to jump?
39:46I can take this.
39:47Yeah.
39:48Technically,
39:49nothing wrong
39:50with MCN companies.
39:51They're good.
39:53The ones who limit
39:55the diversity
39:56are actually
39:57the platforms.
39:58Sorry.
40:01Really?
40:02So,
40:04not you're getting
40:05better and better,
40:06but you have...
40:06Thank you.
40:07The feeds,
40:08and for MCN
40:09it's particularly YouTube,
40:10and let's take YouTube
40:11because we don't want
40:12to say anything bad
40:12about Meta,
40:13YouTube are the bad ones.
40:15No, they're not.
40:15They're actually great.
40:16But,
40:17when you go into YouTube
40:18and you see your homepage,
40:20what you see
40:22on that homepage
40:22is videos
40:24and thumbnails
40:25of those videos
40:26and catchy titles.
40:29I don't know,
40:30does anyone remember
40:31when Johnny Depp
40:32was in court?
40:33Yeah,
40:34okay,
40:34everyone's nodding.
40:35That means yes.
40:36I have,
40:37I care nothing
40:38about Johnny Depp.
40:39He's probably a great guy,
40:40but suddenly one day
40:41my feed on YouTube
40:42was just filled
40:43with Johnny Depp content.
40:44Why?
40:45Well,
40:45because YouTube
40:46started noticing,
40:47okay,
40:47people click this stuff,
40:48so we'll pump more and more
40:50because more and more people click
40:51and they make more and more money.
40:52And when that happens,
40:54you end up having algorithms
40:56which serve content
40:58based on what the platforms
40:59make the most money on,
41:01not what I,
41:02as a human being,
41:03have selected the creators
41:04on YouTube
41:05that I want to follow.
41:06so in terms of diversity,
41:09I think algorithms
41:10and the discovery algorithms
41:11and feeds
41:12still have a lot of work
41:13to do to actually
41:14think less about business model
41:16and more about the user,
41:17but I'm going to get a punch
41:19back in the face now.
41:20I'm dying to jump in on this.
41:21So anyone interested
41:23in understanding
41:23how the algorithm works,
41:25or at least for Meta,
41:27follow Adam Masseri,
41:29follow at creators on Instagram.
41:30There was a brilliant video there
41:32maybe a week ago
41:33that explains the algorithm.
41:36And the way we do this work
41:37at Meta using AI
41:38is all about
41:40your individual preferences,
41:42your track record
41:43in terms of what you've engaged with,
41:45what you've liked,
41:45what you've looked at.
41:46So if you clicked on Johnny Depp
41:48and liked that story,
41:49you'll probably get more of it.
41:50But it tends to,
41:51at least for us,
41:52be based very much on
41:54connected things
41:55to things you've looked at
41:56in the past.
41:56We want to surface new content.
41:58If you've looked at a video
41:59of skateboarding,
42:00you might get one about
42:02parkour next time,
42:03for example.
42:04So it is very much based
42:05on individuals' usage.
42:07Not what the platform
42:08wants to serve.
42:10Another question
42:11from the audience.
42:12What opportunities
42:13are there
42:14around leveraging
42:15influencers
42:15in B2B contexts?
42:21We won't answer that question.
42:22I'm kidding.
42:23Technically,
42:24exactly the same.
42:25People are people
42:25and people trust people.
42:27And if you're a company
42:27and you want to get to people,
42:28well,
42:29if you can go through people,
42:30that's great.
42:31It's what we,
42:32in B2B today,
42:33call referrals,
42:35testimonials.
42:36It's all about creating
42:37technically influence
42:38in the B2B space.
42:39The only big problem,
42:41which is why
42:41it's a hell of a tricky thing
42:42to actually do,
42:43is the influencers
42:46in the B2B context
42:48typically are linked
42:49to a company
42:50and work in a company
42:51and already make
42:51a decent amount of money,
42:52which means you trying
42:53to pay them,
42:54A,
42:54their contracts probably say
42:55that they can't work with you,
42:57and B,
42:58they're typically,
42:59it's tricky to pay
43:00Bill Gates
43:01to say some good things
43:02about your company.
43:03So,
43:04technically,
43:05it should be the same,
43:06but it has obstacles.
43:07Yeah,
43:07the only main difference
43:09that you will face
43:10is the social media,
43:12making sure
43:12that you are targeting
43:14your audience
43:15on the right social media,
43:16but basically,
43:17the strategy behind
43:18is exactly the same.
43:20Actually,
43:21I'll say against myself now
43:22because we work
43:23with a fantastic company
43:24called Fiverr,
43:25freelance platform,
43:26best one in the world.
43:28We help them work
43:30with Stephen Bartlett,
43:32which is a massive podcaster,
43:34we're getting nods,
43:35massive podcaster in the UK,
43:37to get
43:38and reach
43:39small,
43:40medium enterprises.
43:41So,
43:42B2B
43:42through an influencer,
43:44phenomenal results,
43:46can be done,
43:46but it's just a little bit
43:47more of an art form.
43:49It's already the end
43:50of the panel.
43:51Do you have any
43:52last thing
43:53that you would like
43:53to share with students
43:54before we say goodbye?
43:57I would just say
43:58if there's anyone out there
43:59wanting to be a creator,
44:00then definitely check out
44:02at Creators,
44:03follow it on Instagram,
44:03and you'll get
44:04all the tips,
44:05info you need
44:06to do well
44:07on our platforms.
44:08Thank you.
44:10Be your authentic selves.
44:14Be authentic,
44:15find your own niche,
44:16and you'll have success.
44:18Thank you very much
44:19to the three of you.
44:21Thank you so much.
44:22It was a pleasure
44:22to interview you.
44:23Thank you.
44:26Thank you so much.
44:26You're welcome.
44:35Thank you,
44:39Thank you,
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