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Good Business The CMOs Driving Urgency in Sustainability
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00:00Bonjour à tous et bienvenue à Good Business,
00:05le CMO's Driving Urgency in Sustainability.
00:10So, you may already know that the United Nations
00:14defines sustainability as meeting the needs of the present
00:18without compromising the ability of future generations
00:23to meet their own needs.
00:25Marketeers know better than anyone else
00:27that short-term solutions are not always going to contribute
00:30to long-term business.
00:31So, I'm going to discuss with these venerable professionals
00:34in the sustainability space
00:36how they are going to communicate
00:39what the business is doing on operation and a product level
00:42via marketing internally and externally to consumers
00:46and whether that will actually move the dial
00:48in the way that consumers live a more sustainable life
00:52and make the world a better place.
00:55So, welcome.
00:58You've all been introduced.
00:59So, we've got Christina, we've got Fabrice, we've got Aude.
01:03And I'm Sam Glynn.
01:05I head up EMEA for Entertainment and Culture Marketing at UTA.
01:11So, this is an essential and timely conversation.
01:18I'm interested to hear from you what your goals are in terms of reaching net zero,
01:24what the time scale is, how close you are to achieving those goals,
01:29and as marketeers, how you're communicating those goals externally to your consumers.
01:36Christina, we'll start with you.
01:37Sure.
01:38So, first of all, great to be with you all today on this, I think, really important topic.
01:43So, for us, at Diageo, we started this journey back in 2020,
01:48and we launched this program called Spirit of Progress.
01:51It has a number of goals, but when it comes to sustainability,
01:54I suppose there's a couple areas that I'd love to highlight.
01:57One is on the journey to carbon reduction, where we've said by 2030 we will want to be carbon neutral.
02:05And we're taking a number of steps in that direction already.
02:08Some prominent announcements recently, like we just are going to invest 100 million euros in St. James Gates,
02:15so Guinness will be one of the most efficient breweries in the world.
02:19There's a lot of work on design, and I'm sure, I hope I have a chance to talk to you
02:23about that a little bit,
02:23particularly on packaging.
02:25All our packaging will be recyclable, or reusable, or compostable.
02:29And there's also a lot of work on water, particularly in areas of the world where we work that are
02:35water-stressed.
02:36So, water efficiency is a huge goal for us.
02:39Great. And I know you talk a lot about from grain to glass.
02:42Grain to glass sustainability, that's right.
02:45So, we'll come back and we'll discuss that more deeply.
02:47Fabrice, how are you?
02:49Are you on target to reach your sustainable goals?
02:52What are they, and what's your key objective?
02:54Lots of questions.
02:56Yeah.
02:56So, Raykit is a consumer goods company, and we operate mostly in hygiene and consumer health categories.
03:03Everybody here knows and maybe uses our brands.
03:07Nurofen, Gaviscon, Durex in the space of health, Finish, Airwick, and Vanish in hygiene.
03:14We sell 30 million products every day globally.
03:20And you may have noticed that within my responsibilities is both marketing and sustainability.
03:26sustainability, and that comes from both a belief and an experience, which is sustainability can help businesses and brands create
03:34value.
03:35And it helps to deliver on sustainability commitments to apply a brand lens to a complicated business, a large business.
03:43So, when it comes to the commitments, because there are so many of them, we have created a simple framework,
03:50which has three pillars.
03:53The first pillar is around environment.
03:55We call it healthier planet.
03:57The second is around social.
03:59We call it fairer society.
04:01And interestingly, the third pillar is called more sustainable brands.
04:05We have commitments, very specific commitments for each pillar.
04:09I'll give you one for more sustainable brands.
04:12It's also about carbon.
04:13A lot of emissions in a consumer goods company are within the product itself, ingredients, and packaging.
04:20And we want to reduce our product carbon footprint by 50% by 2030.
04:26We published last year, 2023, we were at minus 13.
04:32So, there is more work to be done there.
04:35I'm sure there is.
04:37And we will talk about the race against the clock.
04:41Ode, Nestlé's ambitions to be carbon neutral.
04:45So, Nestlé's ambition on carbon neutral, you know, we are by far the biggest food and beverage company.
04:50We are working in 188 markets, and, of course, a lot with farmers, with very big supply chain.
04:57We have, you know, factories absolutely everywhere around the world.
05:00So, our sustainability, we have net zero, of course, at the core.
05:04We've been launching, you know, externally our commitment, which is obviously reduction by 2025 at 20%.
05:11We are at 13.5%, so we should get there.
05:15Because, you know, all the work usually accumulates year on year, 50 by 2030 and 100 by 2050.
05:23But to go back to what Fabrice was saying, when we look at sustainability, we look, of course, on net
05:29zero, but we look way beyond this.
05:31Because the way we operate and the impact we have, actually, obviously on the environment, but also on communities, is
05:39extremely important.
05:40So, we have also three pillars.
05:43One is definitely on climate and environment.
05:46So, you have green gas emission, you have, obviously, plastic, and everything which is linked, obviously, to water and water
05:55consumption and water usage.
05:57Our second pillar is what we call people and communities, and I'm sure we'll touch about it, which is being
06:03in the food industry, we're working, as I said, with a lot of farmers and communities in cities and villages
06:08around the world.
06:09So, everything linking back to fair trade, income of the farmers, we have a whole youth program, especially in the
06:17developing markets, is also very big.
06:20And the third pillar is based on nutrition, which, for us, you know, access to a nutritious, you know, product
06:28and a proper kind of diet is actually very important around the world.
06:33And so, this is where we have all our pillars in terms of development of new product, development of new
06:38technology.
06:39And so, that's the way we look at sustainability at Nestle.
06:43So, all three of you companies are trailblazing in this space.
06:47But, we have an issue.
06:50My statistics here tell me, on average, across sectors, 52% of people globally say they have seen, heard, or
07:00found out false or misleading information from brands about their sustainability goals.
07:05And only 38% feel that brands are delivering.
07:10So, you all have marketing in your title, and Fabrice, you have a little bit more than marketing.
07:15How do you communicate your sustainable goals?
07:21I mean, once I started talking to you and did more and more research, I was astounded and impressed about
07:25the work you were doing.
07:26But it wasn't, it didn't seem like general knowledge.
07:29How are you telling your customers what you're doing in the sustainable space?
07:33And also, how are you communicating with customers who don't necessarily have an overall vision about what sustainable really means?
07:42And then, the third question around that is, how responsible are your customers in putting their hands in their pockets
07:48and paying for sustainable products?
07:51So, we'll start with you, Ode.
07:52Yes, I'll start with the third one.
07:55Yeah.
07:56There's a concept that I really like, and that I'm trying to make sure we focus all our teams on,
08:02which is also to understand that consumers can be activists with their wallets.
08:06And at the end of the day, I think everybody is now very aware that we need to do something,
08:11and we all need to actually do, you know, at any scale.
08:14You know, we need to have an impact.
08:17It's very difficult on the daily life of people, and sometimes they don't really want to go, you know, and
08:23change a lot of their consuming habits to be able to actually kind of make the impact.
08:28So, choosing the right brands, and, you know, is actually the way they can also become an activist.
08:34So, I think it puts a real responsibility to us and on us to make sure that we are very
08:41honest, we're very clear that if we have a story, if we have a claims, if we are actually doing,
08:47you know, we're really having an action, we need to explain it in a very simple and clear kind of
08:53way.
08:54There's been a marketing opportunity in the past, so I'm not surprised, you know, by the number that you just
08:59pulled on the 52% of consumers, you know, not believing or seeing kind of false claims.
09:06I think this is over, because the understanding is wider, the education is also wider, and we need to continue
09:13to do that as well.
09:14You know, we need also to, it's a very complex subject, and every time you touch a subject, it's actually,
09:21the more you dive into it, the more complex it is.
09:23So, simplifying, but also putting data behind it, and it's what we do.
09:27We do it on packaging.
09:29All our brands, if they want to actually have a sustainable claim, they need to have data, because our roadmap
09:35is public.
09:36Of course.
09:37We need to have a sustainable roadmap public.
09:39It's external.
09:40We come back every year.
09:41We give the data to our investors.
09:43It's in our annual report, so we can't hide away from it.
09:47And so that's the way we make sure that we finally get the right communication, there's QR codes, there's websites.
09:54Obviously, we do content that we put on social media, on YouTube, to make sure that people can really understand
10:01what we're doing.
10:02And the KitKat.
10:03So, I don't know anyone in the UK out here.
10:06If you bought a KitKat recently, you will see a QR code on it, and this fascinated me.
10:11Yes, so quickly on KitKat, you know, because, as I've said, we work with a lot of farmers, dairy, coffee,
10:18cocoa, it has an impact, of course, on the environment.
10:22And so, as part of what we call our cocoa plan that we have been developing for a long time,
10:28we now have KitKat, definitely 100% in the UK, which is, you know, the cocoa plan is key, because
10:37it does several things.
10:38The first one is, it's working directly with cocoa farmers, and basically asking them to have the best farming practices,
10:47making sure that you have no children on the field, which is a huge issue for us in Africa, because
10:53usually it's family farms.
10:55So, you know, it's the parents and the kids, and they can't pay for more people to actually work the
11:00farms.
11:01And so, and they also need to give 50% of the revenue to their wife, because we also know
11:07that when the wife, the mother, has a part of the income, they actually are the one who's pushing for
11:12the kids to go to school.
11:13So, you're paying the wives?
11:15So, the wives are being paid, yes.
11:17Even if the farm is being led by the husband, the wife is actually getting a fair cut of the
11:22income of the family farm.
11:25And so, when we do that, when they actually do that and answer the criteria, they get a higher price
11:30on their cocoa.
11:31So, it means that everybody wins.
11:33And so, now, KitKat in the UK, you can see a stamp called Cocoa Plan, which means that 100%
11:39of the cocoa, which has been used to actually produce your KitKat, is coming from that program.
11:45And there's a QR code, which can really take you to the farm, you see all the data, we have
11:52external bodies who actually, obviously, kind of check all our data.
11:56So, that's the Cocoa Plan on KitKat for you.
11:59I absolutely love that.
12:00And, Fabrice, how, you have the world, you've got three titles, haven't you?
12:05Your CMO, your Sustainability Officer, and your Public Affairs.
12:09How do those three roles intertwine at Wreck-It and how do you manage to manage all of that work?
12:17Yeah.
12:17Well, I guess everything starts with where you went, which is what's on the mind of consumers.
12:22Yeah.
12:23And there is what they say, you gave a couple of examples, and there's also what they want.
12:29And when it comes to brands and sustainability, simplistically, they want two things.
12:35They want more sustainable product design, and they want brands to create some positive impact.
12:42More sustainable product design is very concrete.
12:46We're talking about less plastic, recycled plastic, greenery chemistry, and increasingly, information about CO2 emissions and less CO2 required in
12:57manufacturing the products.
12:59Brands of positive impact means that brands are allowed in consumer minds to contribute to something more than what they
13:10sell.
13:10They're actually expected to, as long as it's authentic and about action.
13:16So that means whatever they say for community, society, environment, should be rooted in action, and it should connect to
13:23what they do in the first place.
13:26I'd like to come back to the point of data that Ode made.
13:30When it comes to more sustainable product design, everybody wants it, but to your point, it doesn't mean that everybody
13:37can or want to pay for it.
13:39And that's where data and AI comes into play.
13:44It is possible today to combine data sets about people, which we always had, but never together.
13:53And if you apply to this data, machine learning, you start to get really, really precise about why people choose
14:01what they choose.
14:01Think of it as a map of demand.
14:13When you have that clarity on what consumers want from their product, in surface cleaning, you understand they want something
14:23which is either natural or not, and something which is strong on germs or not.
14:29When you have that framework in mind, you can also start being precise about what they will accept or not
14:38when it comes to sustainable product.
14:40Will they be ready to take a refillable trigger or not?
14:44Are they interested in green ingredients or not so much?
14:48And then, of course, once you have that data and that machine learning in action, you can start using generative
14:54AI to formulate the solutions for them.
14:57So you're using AI both to create better packaging but also to understand what your consumers want?
15:03Absolutely.
15:04To understand with precision which groups want what and then formulate meaningfully for their needs and expectations.
15:13Thank you.
15:14Christina, how are you talking to these customers who don't believe you're sustainable and think you're corrupting the planet with
15:23your big global business?
15:26I mean, in Webridges, which is my business, we talk a lot about the say-do gap.
15:32Effectively, about 68% of people say that they want to actually purchase products that are more sustainable, better for
15:39the world.
15:40But only 12% do.
15:4212%, that's a big gap.
15:43And the real reason behind it, actually, it's multifaceted.
15:48There's either lack of availability, lack of understanding, and sometimes the pricing is higher and they're not willing to pay
15:57more for it.
15:57So, in that context, we talk about the triple win.
16:01So, how to approach this challenge?
16:04We really want to do everything that is good for business, of course, good for people, and good for planet.
16:12And I do think that that is a way of framing the conversation in general within the business, but very
16:19specifically within the marketing and innovation community.
16:22Because you can actually frame every single innovation project and decide whether that particular project is going to contribute in
16:31that sense or not.
16:33The other important aspect, I think, given the complexity of the subject, the challenges of innovation, and the new technologies
16:41that need to be embraced,
16:43is actually the training and the upskilling of your own talent in a wide way, not just a few specialists,
16:51which we all have, really knowledgeable people of every function,
16:56but truly make it easier, more accessible, and more precise to everybody.
17:03So, to that point, then, last year, for example, we trained 600 of our senior leaders in an Oxford SAID
17:11program, specifically on sustainability.
17:13It was online, 12 weeks.
17:15It was rather intense.
17:16I was fantastic.
17:17People were very proud.
17:18Put it on LinkedIn and everything.
17:20And following that, we've just made the program available, or a portion of that program available online.
17:26And we have also designed a framework that we call claims, where people in marketing across our entire organization in
17:36the world have access to deep knowledge on what claims can you actually make
17:41that are accurate, that are measurable, that are compliant with the frameworks with which we all work, and importantly, that
17:49are understandable for consumers.
17:51So, I think, look, it's a journey, and we've started, we're on it, and we've got a way to go.
17:57Wonderful.
17:58Fabrice, you touched earlier upon the fact that, I mean, all three of you are global brands, but that you've
18:04got loads of products within those brands.
18:07How do you work across all those brands and make sure that each can achieve sustainable goals that they've chosen
18:14themselves?
18:15Yeah.
18:16So, I briefly explained the diversity of our portfolio.
18:20We have sore throat lozenges, and we have dishwashing cleaning tablets.
18:24We have condoms, and we have stain removers.
18:26How do you create that positive impact I talked about authentically with action whilst the brands do so many different
18:34things?
18:35And the way we approach this is as follows.
18:38Every brand in Racket chooses one particular SDG, one sustainable development goal.
18:46There are 17 of them, you probably know that, and every brand looks at that list and thinks hard where
18:54they think they can meaningfully contribute.
18:58And they have autonomy to do that within the framework of the…
19:01Absolutely.
19:01As long as that choice is strategic, and usually it's driven by what the products do or could do.
19:09I'm going to give an example.
19:11Our brand, Vanish, is very large and present here in France and in the UK, and that brand originally is
19:20an excellent stain remover.
19:22The brand team of Vanish chose SDG 12, Responsible Production and Consumption.
19:29And they did that because of a startling fact that they identified, which I'm going to try and convey.
19:38So now, think about all the clothes that you have at home, in a closet, in a wardrobe, and now
19:46let's build an imaginary collective wardrobe, right?
19:50All of our clothes right now in an imaginary wardrobe.
19:53The startling fact is that in a year, half of that wardrobe will be not used at all.
20:01Half of it.
20:03Eventually, these clothes end up in landfill, and most of them contain a high proportion of plastic.
20:09When the brand team understood that, they said,
20:13we ought to evolve the brand from amazing stain removal to extending the life of clothes.
20:20They started with the product, they kept these amazing stain removal properties, but they made the product stronger at protecting
20:28colors.
20:29The reason why so many of these clothes get unused is because colors disappear over time, and then it's not
20:36the same feeling anymore.
20:37So the idea is that if we can protect the colors more, well, the clothes and their life will get
20:43extended.
20:44It enables us to talk about different things as a brand.
20:48I talk about programs of positive impact.
20:51We try and inspire more circular fashion behaviors.
20:54We talk about sustainable laundry.
20:56If you use the new product, you can dial down the temperature of the wash,
21:01which will also extend the life of clothes, protect their colors, whilst you get a super wash result.
21:08So, in the end, it's very concrete.
21:11It's rooted in product, which is product innovation, and then it inspires a slight behavior change.
21:18But a behavior change every day for hundreds of millions of people over time.
21:23Makes a difference.
21:24It makes a big difference.
21:26Nestle is a farming brand, and you touched briefly on your initiative in the Côte d'Ivoire.
21:33What else are you doing to make sure that your agriculture is sustainable and to limit deforestation across the Nestle
21:40universe?
21:42So, the overall kind of strategy and our mission when we link to sustainability
21:47is basically to really kind of push regenerative food system at scale.
21:51Because we do understand that actually, as a company, but also for the planet and for the world,
21:57we need to really make sure that we take care of our soil, and we need to change our farming
22:03practices overall.
22:04And, of course, you know, as I said, we work a lot directly with farmers.
22:08We also, of course, buy raw material on the market.
22:11And so, we have a lot of regenerative agriculture programs around the world.
22:16We have agronomists working with all the coffee farmers, the cocoa farmers, the dairy farmers.
22:22And we also, what we've done is we've built partnerships.
22:26Sometimes we have our competitors to make sure that we can all, you know, be active together in the transformation
22:33of the practices.
22:34So, we have the ICI, which has been now more than 10 years old, that we have built.
22:40And we have now all the biggest kind of cocoa company in the world, going from Mars to Mondelez, Lint,
22:47and so on.
22:48And so, we really have been investing together in transforming the way we actually grow cocoa and really helping the
22:56farmers to understand now how you can actually take care of your cocoa plant in a very different way.
23:04We also have Lintz, which is in the UK and in Europe, which is all about, it's called the Lint
23:10Network Enterprise.
23:12And so, we're working with companies in Europe, as well as government bodies, on really kind of learning on 23
23:23different practices of regenerative agriculture,
23:26how they are going to be able to impact, and how we can learn so we can scale.
23:32Because a big issue of everything which is linked to sustainability is not about the how.
23:38We know we have a lot of technologies.
23:39We know how to do this.
23:41The problem is to do it at scale if you want to have an impact.
23:44And to do that, you need to really work.
23:46So, we're working currently with 100 farmers when we're testing the 23 different practices and with the local communities and
23:54so on and so forth to see what really works and see what is the impact of a time, what
24:00are currently the potential issues we're facing.
24:03And then when we know how it works, then we can go and scale.
24:06And so, that's key because that's the only way we can really have an impact.
24:10Yeah, partnerships must be key to moving quickly.
24:13Yes.
24:14And you are racing against time.
24:15What partnerships have Diageo been pioneering?
24:18So, we've done a lot of work, particularly with entrepreneurs.
24:23I spoke about packaging a little bit.
24:26And the majority of our packaging for our Johnny Walker and Smirnoff and all our brands, Baileys, is fundamentally glass.
24:34Yeah.
24:35So, one of them that I'll bring as an example is we're trying to see what other materials can be
24:41used that have an even better carbon footprint.
24:43And I thought I'll bring you an example of a product that has just literally been launched this week in
24:49Barcelona.
24:49is a test, it's a tiny little bottle, it's a mini of Baileys, and it's 90% paper-based.
24:58Can we see it?
24:59Actually, I brought it for you.
25:00I love the fact she's got a bottle of Baileys in her pocket.
25:08And the lid is fully sustainable as well and recyclable.
25:12It is fully sustainable and you can recycle it in a paper stream.
25:15So, this is one of the things that we are doing.
25:18Actually, we started doing through a partnership with an entrepreneur.
25:21And we are doing a lot more work in that space to reduce the footprint of our packaging.
25:26So, from reducing the number of gift packs, we took 181, 141 million boxes of gift packs from the Scotch
25:36business, which was a very big deal.
25:38We also have developed a foiled bottle for Baileys as well.
25:47It's being tested in Europe.
25:48So, there's multiple streams that I think will make a huge difference.
25:53We were talking about scale.
25:54We need to start somewhere.
25:56And our approach, particularly in packaging, is progress over perfection.
26:00So, we will do things like this.
26:02We will learn and I'm sure it will make a big difference.
26:05Well, thank you very much.
26:07So, just a final question.
26:10Is good business achieved through sustainability?
26:14Yes.
26:14And can you still run a business as a profit while being a good business and a good business that
26:20contributes to the future of mankind?
26:23I think business performance is a non-negotiable.
26:26It's your ticket to the party.
26:28And, in fact, I do think that consumers very soon are going to close that, say, gap that we were
26:36talking about earlier.
26:37And it's incumbent upon us to be ahead.
26:39Our innovation will actually drive demand.
26:42So, I'm sure that doing this work is actually very good for business.
26:46Fabrice?
26:46The answer is yes.
26:48Aligning sustainability ambitions and business objectives is the way forward.
26:53Think about my Vanish example.
26:55If people embrace more circular fashion habits, more sustainable laundry practices, it's good per se.
27:03And we will also sell more Vanish.
27:04It's a win-win.
27:06So, fully agree.
27:08Oui, I think it is the non-negotiable because that's the only way you can continue to exist.
27:14For me, it's also, you know, an opportunity for innovation.
27:18We've learned so much.
27:20I've learned so much the past four years, you know, because sometimes it's daunting because, as I said, the more
27:26you get into the details, you more, you know, it feels like it's this Pandera box you're opening.
27:31And it touches every single aspect of a business, absolutely every single aspect.
27:35But you learn, you see the amazing innovation.
27:39Also, it's an opportunity to really help shift the habit of the consumers, you know, which is also, I think,
27:46absolutely paramount for all of us.
27:50And for us, there's no other way.
27:52If we want to make sure that we're going to have enough cocoa, wheat, rice, you know, still with the
27:59right nutritious ability, you know, for the future for the planet,
28:03we need to have healthy soil and healthy practices.
28:07So it is also the way to make sure that we have a sustainable business for the years to come.
28:13So, yes, absolutely.
28:14Wonderful.
28:15Well, in summary, we've got innovation, we've got partnerships, we've got AI, and we've got that really important relationship between
28:23the brand and the consumers
28:24and how you can convince the consumers to work together with you.
28:28So, you haven't got long.
28:31There is a sense of urgency.
28:33I wish you the best of luck.
28:35And I implore the rest of you to engage with their messaging and understand your responsibility as consumers to play
28:42a part.
28:43Thank you very much.
28:44Thank you.
28:45Thank you.
28:49Thank you.
28:52Let's open that.
28:55Thank you all.
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