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Driving Growth with Sustainability at the Center
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00:00My name is Biliana Svetonovsky, I'm a partner with McKinsey & Company in our London office and I also lead
00:06our growth, marketing and sales group in the UK, Ireland and Israel.
00:10Today we'll be talking about a topic that I'm personally very passionate about.
00:15How do you drive growth with sustainability at the centre?
00:19And what is the role of marketing and the chief marketing officer to deliver on that growth?
00:26I'll start with sharing a few insights from proprietary McKinsey & Company research and then I'll invite to stage some
00:33panellists who share some of their real-world experiences as they live this challenge day-to-day.
00:40What we hope you take away from this session is a little bit of inspiration on how to feed more
00:45sustainability into your growth agenda,
00:48but also some practical actions that you can take forward to change mindsets, to choose pathways for growth and to
00:56execute with excellence with sustainability at the centre.
01:00I thought it might be helpful to start with a definition.
01:03What exactly do we mean by driving growth with sustainability at the centre?
01:09Well, giving a definition might be helpful, but the answer might be a little less helpful.
01:13What we found from our research is sustainability means very different things to different organisations.
01:20It can take on a whole range of definitions, everything from environmental factors, such as climate strategy or policy, water
01:28risk, social factors,
01:30how do you protect human rights, how do you think about health and safety of employees, all the way through
01:36to governance.
01:36So how do you create policies, guidelines, guardrails that can protect sustainability in an ongoing way?
01:44But despite this really broad range of definitions, we found that there were three consistent themes around the topic of
01:52sustainability at the core for growth.
01:55The first is that sustainability matters.
02:00It matters to your stakeholders, it matters to your stakeholders, it matters to consumers, it matters to those consumers and
02:06customers who are making choices about your brands every day.
02:12Increasingly, we're seeing investors care about sustainability, and we're seeing much more policy and government involvement around the topic.
02:19So despite this really wide range of definitions for organisations, we're seeing that sustainability matters.
02:27We also found in our research that ESG outperformers tended to be growth outperformers.
02:35We looked at 4,000 publicly listed companies, and we looked at their revenue and their profit and their ESG
02:42impact.
02:43And what we found is those companies that were driving revenue and profit growth, if they were also accelerating ESG,
02:49they were driving above peer growth.
02:52So we know that sustainability matters also for performance.
02:57Maybe the most striking result from our research, after we spoke to almost 900 executives from around the world, different
03:05sized companies, different industries,
03:07what we found is that almost 80% of chief executive officers are looking to their chief marketing officer to
03:15not only define the growth agenda, but deliver on that growth agenda.
03:19And this number is quite striking.
03:21We also found that this held true even in the most disruptive of times.
03:26We found this held true in 2018, 2019, and in 2020.
03:32So even in the most disruptive of times, CEOs are looking to their CMO to be their co-pilot for
03:38growth.
03:39What we also found with these CEOs is they really thought about marketing with a capital M.
03:45This is about marketing stepping outside of the four walls of the marketing department and really getting involved in the
03:52entire value chain for customers and consumers.
03:54So CMOs and marketers are involved in product, innovation, pricing, customer service.
04:01So really orchestrating and touching every part of that journey.
04:05So if we take a step back from this research, we know that sustainability matters.
04:09The CEO wants the CMO to take the front seat with them.
04:12So what does it actually mean for CMOs and marketers?
04:18So we looked at our research and we identified those companies that were outperforming their peers on growth and had
04:24sustainability at the core.
04:26And we found three key lessons.
04:29Three key lessons of what CMOs were doing really, really well.
04:33The first is they set the right mindset.
04:37This means that they're a strategic partner and peer to the CEO, but they're also forging strong bonds and relationships
04:45and partnerships with the rest of the C-suite.
04:48And we call these CMOs the unifiers because they really work in collaboration with the CFO, the chief technology officer
04:54and the rest of the C-suite.
04:57In addition to being very strategic, we actually found that the CMO was also being selectively operationally more involved.
05:04We found that no one was better placed than the CMO to rally the organization around sustainability and purpose.
05:12They were building the internal brand equity.
05:15The second thing that the CMOs were doing really well is that they were choosing the right pathways to growth.
05:23They used the sustainability and their purpose as a North Star for what they will and will not do.
05:29We found that they were three times more likely to discard a brand, a product, communication, if it no longer
05:38fit with their values.
05:38They were making really, really tough choices on their portfolio.
05:44The third thing that these CMOs were doing really well is that they were executing with excellence.
05:49This means that they had a lot of focus on the capabilities they were building.
05:55In fact, we found that if they were using analytics, creativity and purpose with sustainability ingrained,
06:01they were out growing their peers by a multiple of at least two times.
06:06And maybe very finally, we found that these CMOs were holding themselves accountable.
06:12This is not only in terms of brand sentiment analysis and brand metrics, which really matter in this context to
06:19keep the pulse of what's relevant, credible and aspirational for sustainability.
06:23But we also found that they were anchoring themselves very tightly to the broader business objectives around sustainability.
06:32So I've shared some of the insights from our recent research.
06:35What I'd love to do now is invite to the stage three panelists who are expert in this field.
06:42So we have Anne Kavalerski, who's the Group Chief Marketing Officer for Bloomberg Media.
06:48We have Agathe Bousquet, who's CEO of Publicist Group in France.
06:52And finally, Sarah Franklin, President and Chief Marketing Officer of Salesforce.
06:57Please join me in giving them a warm welcome to the stage.
07:17So thank you for joining us today.
07:19I cannot imagine a more inspiring group of leaders to talk about this topic of putting sustainability core and center
07:26to driving the growth agenda.
07:28I want to start with a question on the role of the CMO.
07:32And what I found really striking in our research is that CEOs are really looking to the CMO to drive
07:39the growth agenda.
07:40And that wasn't always the case, but the CMO is living up that value.
07:45So I'd love to hear from you.
07:47I'll start with you, Anne.
07:48Sure.
07:49What do you think the role of the CMO is in driving growth with sustainability at the core?
07:53Wonderful.
07:54Well, first off, hello, everyone.
07:55Great to be here.
07:56Great to be in person with so many of you today.
07:59Really appreciate the opportunity to be up here with all these lovely female CMOs and leaders.
08:04And thank you, Bilyana.
08:06But I'm incredibly fortunate to be part of Bloomberg Media, an organization, Bloomberg,
08:11where data sustainability and measurement are inextricably linked and are really fundamental to our DNA.
08:18Our founder, Mike Bloomberg, often says, you can't manage what you can't measure.
08:23And that's sort of an adage and part of our mission that trickles throughout the entire organization.
08:28So as I think about Bloomberg Media and the Bloomberg Media brand, we think about how do we translate that
08:33to our brand?
08:35And I think about really that intersection of credibility with market demand.
08:39What are customers, what are our advertising customers demanding?
08:42And on the consumer side of the business, what do people want to read about?
08:45And for us, that's ESG.
08:47And so I think that's really interesting and sort of great to be part of an organization where that is
08:51so native.
08:52But I think what's also interesting is that we're seeing ESG and sustainability not just relevant for companies where it
09:00is native,
09:00but it's increasingly becoming part of the CMO and marketer's playbook.
09:04In some research that we did, we have a tool called Bloomberg AIQ.
09:08It's an artificial intelligence tool.
09:10It looks at 30,000 publications globally.
09:12We saw an 800% increase in the association of CMOs and sustainability in the last five years.
09:20So really an astounding growth and really something that's a testament to how sustainability is part of the marketing agenda
09:26and something that obviously all of us have to care very deeply about.
09:31I am not a CMO, but I live with CMOs all day long at Publicis.
09:38And honestly, they are very key.
09:42And I'm happy to see the power they have today on this topic.
09:46It means that the CEOs listen also to the trends.
09:50They listen to the expectation of the consumer.
09:52And the CMO is always the right spokesperson for the trends, for the new behaviors, for the expectations of the
10:00consumer.
10:00So I'm happy to see their role.
10:02They need more and more power to impose also their view.
10:06But we are their partner to do so.
10:09And it's absolutely key for us to make the CMOs grow in the company around sustainability for one reason.
10:16Because it's all about how do you engage people.
10:20And for that we really need creativity.
10:23The more you want to talk about sustainability, the more you want to innovate around sustainability,
10:28the more you need ideas.
10:29You need great ideas.
10:31You need creativity.
10:31And this is where we can play a great role.
10:34This is where we want to be, to be honest.
10:37And that's why I'm happy to see that today.
10:40It was not exactly the case 10 years ago or 15 years ago.
10:43To be honest, it was all about performance.
10:45But as you've just shown on your survey, sustainability matters.
10:50So if you don't do that for the planet, do that for your business.
10:54It's going to be good for the planet at the end.
10:56And it's true that the CMOs, when we give them surveys, we give them a lot of figures, as you've
11:04just did actually.
11:05It's absolutely key for them to raise a great profile and the right actions in the company.
11:15Just, I could not agree more with everything that's been said.
11:20And there's never been a more important time to be a CMO.
11:24And it's not just for your CEO.
11:26It's for your CRO.
11:28It's for your Chief Customer Officer.
11:30It's for every part of your organization.
11:31And for talking with your employees, too.
11:34And so, being a CMO, you have the voice.
11:37You have the attention.
11:39And it's never been more important to lead with your values.
11:42At Salesforce, our values are trust, customer success, innovation, equality, and sustainability.
11:47We added that value.
11:50And it's so important to lead and be a CMO that's going to put that in every piece of marketing
11:56material, every communication we have.
11:58It's just never been more important.
12:00And I love this.
12:01And just the theme I'm hearing is around having the sustainability really strategically embedded in your values and your purpose.
12:07It's great to see you all nodding on that.
12:09So, I'd love to hear, how do you bring it to life?
12:11Because there's that element of, you know, it's in the strategy. Sustainability is important.
12:15And, you know, from our research, we see that it's very different depending on the organization.
12:20I'd love to just bring it to life with some examples of how you bring that sustainability operationally into the
12:26business.
12:26It's an everyday job. To be honest, we work with many brands.
12:31And the way we advise the CMOs and the brand to raise their profile with the right impact is first,
12:39you really need always to start with the legacy of the brand.
12:42You're not coming from nowhere. You're coming from an history or geography. You're coming from somewhere. You're a brand.
12:49And if you want to talk about all the things you do well, if you want to raise the profile
12:54of a good brand, you cannot say anything about everything.
12:58You just have to remember who you are.
13:02And also, you have to take care about the cultural relevancy. You have to take care of what's going on,
13:07what's in the air.
13:08You know, if you want to be relevant, you need to care about the cultural relevancy of the people.
13:14And we work a lot with the CMOs on this. And then, of course, it's absolutely key to care about
13:21the business opportunity because it's always about business opportunity.
13:25But we are in a moment where, for instance, when I look at what we did with Marcel, the agency
13:32Marcel, we did a great work around Gillette.
13:34You know Gillette, it's all about the power of masculinity.
13:37And we have launched a campaign a few weeks ago about the new, what is the new masculinity.
13:44We cared a lot about the new trends of masculinity.
13:49And when you are the brand who, for years, decades, has talked about masculinity, and then you show in a
13:56TVC new ways with a new kind of man,
14:01honestly, you have a power of engagement on social media, which is absolutely key.
14:05Another example, we launched a campaign for a car, to launch a new car, a Renault car, saying it's not
14:12because it's an hybrid that you have to use it every day.
14:16So the TVC is all about showing people not using the new car, the Capture, actually.
14:21So it's a way also to engage a conversation, to show that you want to have a positive impact as
14:27a brand, that you put sustainability at the core of your message.
14:30But it's also a way to show that marketing can have an impact on the behaviors and the ideas.
14:37And that's where I believe we have a super job today.
14:43I agree, it's a super job. Round of applause, yes, I love that.
14:50So we look at this pretty simple. We need to emit less, we need to sequester more, and we need
14:57to invest in entrepreneurs.
14:59And as a CMO, we've got to shine a light on all of that, and really do be taking action.
15:04At Salesforce, you know, we're net zero now, and 100% renewable energy.
15:09That's a commitment we've made, and we have right now. It's not a future commitment, it's today.
15:14And then sequester more. We've created the organization 1T.org, One Trillion Trees.
15:20It's very simple. There used to be six trillion trees on the Earth, now there's three trillion.
15:24So we need to plant another trillion to sequester more carbon.
15:28And then the third, which I love, is investing in ecopreneurs.
15:31And the whole youth, the generation which is going to help us and have ideas that we can't even think
15:39of right now,
15:40whether it's the kelp forest or whatever it may be, the innovations that can help us do this.
15:46And as a CMO, we're going to use our platform to shine a light on all of that.
15:53We just launched this year our Team Earth campaign.
15:57And, you know, you talk to CMOs and they say, what are you going to talk about when you go
16:01to the Super Bowl?
16:01Or you go to the Olympics?
16:03We're going to talk about sustainability and how we are all on Team Earth and we're here on this together.
16:07And we need to fight climate change.
16:10We need to be sustainable.
16:11And we need to build that into every part of our culture.
16:15And so I'm proud that Salesforce, we're doing all three of those things.
16:18And as a CMO, we're using our platform to shine a light, to be an inspiration and a beacon for
16:24everybody else to do the same.
16:25I love that. And sort of as a CMO of a media company, thinking about how we take the great
16:31work that brands are doing and agencies are doing and how we get it out there.
16:35And I think that that's one of the areas that we've spent a lot of time focused on over the
16:38last several years.
16:39I think it was about 2020 where we had a revelation, you know, sustainability and climate change is probably perhaps
16:46the biggest challenge we're going to be facing since the Industrial Revolution.
16:50And there is no dedicated media brand covering sustainability.
16:54I mean, just think about that. That's crazy how much we're talking about it today.
16:57And yet no media owner focused on that.
17:00And so we launched Bloomberg Green, and it's the first and still only multi-platform global media brand focused on
17:07climate.
17:08After the killing of George Floyd, we relaunched and sort of grew our Bloomberg Equality brand for the same reason,
17:14right?
17:14There's not a global voice shining a light on global equality issues, which are very different depending on where you
17:20are in the world.
17:21And sort of not a home where folks can tell this story in a really trusted, data-driven, fact-oriented
17:27way.
17:28And so very proud to be part of the launching of those kind of purpose-oriented verticals.
17:33The other thing that we think a lot about and the marketing organization really, you know, partakes and leads the
17:38way here is sort of the foundational structure of our organization.
17:42How do we actually set up the processes and the teams?
17:45And this is, you know, the unsexy part of what we're talking about today, but makes execution possible.
17:50And so really thinking about at Bloomberg Media, how do we work more upstream with our clients?
17:56Because these are hard challenges. Not every company today is a leader like Salesforce in sustainability.
18:02And if you're not, or you're shy about talking about it, it's hard to figure out what that message is.
18:07So we've set up, you know, a very robust data science and insights practice.
18:11We have a proprietary tool called the Bloomberg Brand Accelerator, which looks at brand perception of 500 companies globally,
18:18with a C-suite audience on topics like sustainability and DE&I and brand purpose.
18:23We have a strategy team that works with that data to really figure out what is your value proposition?
18:29What is the right messaging for your right audience groups?
18:31And then, of course, we have the media platforms to tell that story, but really starting much higher in altitude
18:36to help people figure out what that is.
18:39And then just kind of another thing that we're working on that I think is important or a different way
18:42to look at this is partnerships.
18:45And how do you bring others into the fold to help you tell your story?
18:48Or how do you borrow their equity?
18:51Twitter is a big partner of ours.
18:52And as we have all been living through the crypto phase this past year, as we thought about how we'd
18:57address crypto,
18:58we thought, how do we leverage the megaphone that is Twitter on sort of this decentralized finance conversation
19:04and marry that with the sort of credibility that Bloomberg has in the financial services space?
19:09And so we launched our Bloomberg crypto brand in January, just as that conversation was really picking up.
19:15And of course, we're all living through the uncertainty of the financial markets right now.
19:20So it's going to continue to really be that sort of signal in the noise for a very crowded and
19:24clunky conversation.
19:26So I think partnerships, I think structures, and then I think really having the media or the brands or the
19:30offering
19:31to take advantage of and leverage exactly what you were saying, Agat, around just the zeitgeist,
19:36what's happening in the world and really being able to tap into that.
19:39One thing I'm hearing across the panel is a real focus.
19:42It sounds like you've got a clear list of initiatives and focus areas that you're targeting.
19:48But as you're talking, Anne, you started touching on some of the difficulties, the tensions.
19:53I'd love to hear from the panel, what are the other tensions?
19:57I mean, you're truly global organizations. That's one that springs to mind.
20:00There's also external factors that are raging around us.
20:03I'd love to just hear what are the tensions you feel in trying to deliver sustainability,
20:09you know, as the core of growth with everything that's happening around us?
20:13Agat.
20:13Agat.
20:13Agat.
20:14Agat.
20:16Agat.
20:19Agat.
20:30Agat.
20:32Agat.
20:32Agat.
20:34Agat.
20:35Agat.
20:35Agat.
20:36Agat.
20:37Agat.
20:38Agat.
20:39Agat.
20:39Agat.
20:40Agat.
20:40Agat.
20:42Agat.
20:43Comment on peut-on faire plus de diversité avec de nouvelles manières de casting à nos gens dans le TVC
20:50?
20:50Nous avons fait un film, un TVC, qui a été un grand succès, avec SNCF, les trains, en France.
20:57Et c'était tout à fait comment faire un processus super éco-communication.
21:04Il ne coûte pas plus d'argent à la fin, mais c'était beaucoup d'investissement pour pouvoir faire 100
21:09% de processus éco-communication.
21:12Si vous voulez faire bien, comme vous l'avez dit, vous devez vous concentrer.
21:17Vous devez mettre les gens en charge.
21:20Donc, c'est un investissement, les gens.
21:22Mais c'est aussi un nouveau processus pour produire, pour communiquer, pour addresser le média.
21:27Parce qu'en médias ou en digital, vous pouvez faire mieux avec moins d'impact.
21:33Mais pour cela, vous devez vous innover.
21:35Donc, il n'y a pas beaucoup de résistances en termes de l'état de conscience.
21:41Parce que les jeunes générations, et même les leaders aujourd'hui,
21:44vous savez que nous sommes des leaders dans le moment de transition.
21:48Ils ont fait mal avant, les prochaines générations vont faire tout parfaitement.
21:53Aujourd'hui, nous sommes dans le milieu de la transition.
21:56Mais pour faire bien, c'est un lot d'argent.
22:00Je voulais juste expander à ce que vous avez dit à l'intérieur,
22:03sur l'éducation.
22:06Les gens veulent aider.
22:08Ils veulent contribuer.
22:10Mais souvent, ils ne savent pas ce qu'il faut faire.
22:13Et je suis très heureux d'être à Salesforce,
22:17où notre co-CEO, Marc Benioff, est très clair sur ce mission.
22:21Et de la top, il a dit qu'il a priori.
22:24C'est une chose importante pour nous.
22:27Et chaque company doit faire ça.
22:29Mais chaque company doit comprendre ce qu'il faut faire.
22:33Je reflecte sur Salesforce.
22:35Quand nous avons été founded,
22:37nous avons commencé avec un modèle philanthropique,
22:41qui était investissant 1% de notre temps,
22:43d'équité et de ressources,
22:44dans les non-profit organisations.
22:47Nous avons créé quelque chose qui s'appelle Pledge 1%,
22:51qui était un formulae qui m'a aidé d'autres entreprises
22:55pour mettre philanthropy et giving back dans leur DNA.
22:59Et je pense que c'est le challenge.
23:01OK.
23:02Maintenant, nous savons ce qu'il faut faire,
23:05mais nous devons nous aider à tout le monde
23:06et opérationaliser ça,
23:08donc c'est simple.
23:10C'est juste simple.
23:11Je vais faire trois choses
23:14chaque fois que je fais un campagne,
23:17chaque fois que je fais un campagne,
23:18chaque fois que je fais un event,
23:18c'est un élèveur,
23:20et même si on a gathering,
23:20un event.
23:21Et en sorte de stablement,
23:23à chaque partie de tout,
23:26nous devons être operationalise,
23:27parce que les gens nous aideront à l'aide.
23:30Et je pense que Sarah,
23:32je loveis ça.
23:32Et je pense que un key part
23:33de l'operation de l'aise
23:35est le measurement
23:36et le ROI.
23:37Je pense que,
23:38en tant que le challenge,
23:39c'est le harde,
23:40c'est money-related
23:41et l'opération-related.
23:42Mais pour nous,
23:43c'est vraiment l'aise de l'ai de l'aise.
23:45And I think that's where we're all a little nascent in sort of the approaches for how we actually do
23:50that.
23:51But I think, you know, making sure we have simple measurement in place to actually showcase how this is not
23:58only a business imperative, but it's a net business positive imperative.
24:01And I think making it about business dynamics and business success over marketing is how we win, right?
24:07Sustainability is not a marketing tactic.
24:09It is a way you have to run your business and a way you have to operate your business.
24:13And it's a reality today.
24:14So it's about how and how we sort of do that in the most effective way, not if.
24:19And so sort of making sure that becomes ingrained and becomes part of the muscle memory of the C-suite,
24:24but the entire organization.
24:26And I think measurement for that is key.
24:27If I can insist on this point, because it's absolutely critical and key.
24:33It's all about figures.
24:34It's all about measurement.
24:35We have created a tool, the RazoScan, in order to measure what is the impact of each digital ecosystem.
24:42Because you think you do well when you do digital instead of print, for instance.
24:47Yes, right.
24:48But what about your digital ecosystem?
24:50Is it right?
24:51Can you lower the impact of it?
24:54How can we work?
24:55Even in terms of design, UX, etc.
24:58So it's all about figures at the end.
25:01And the way you measure is also the way you commit to sustainability.
25:06I totally agree.
25:07A hundred percent.
25:09You have to measure it.
25:11We took the tool that we built for Salesforce to get net zero now and 100% renewable.
25:17And now we've made it available to our customers with our net zero cloud so that we can tell all
25:22of our customers, you're on Salesforce.
25:24You can use the net zero cloud to also measure, to understand what levers can you pull to change, whether
25:32it's your travel policies, whether it's anything that you choose from your vendors, sustainable choices that you make.
25:40And it can drive your procurement policies.
25:43It can drive things that you might not be thinking of as your company, what your footprint is, whether it's
25:48carbon, water, whichever thing you want to measure.
25:51But that's something that, yes, we have to do and make available to everyone.
25:55I love this.
25:56And despite the diversity of initiatives that you have across your organizations, the themes are really that you're on a
26:02journey.
26:03And I'd love to ask, with our last few minutes, we could talk about this all day, and I might
26:07keep going as we're going backstage.
26:09But as you go on this journey, I'd love to hear from you, given your lessons learned, what advice you
26:15might give to our marketers and CMOs in the audience today?
26:19Sarah.
26:20Oh, starting with me.
26:21Okay, yes.
26:23My advice is that think big and bold and do it.
26:29And you will be so happy when you lead with your values, when you go forward with your North Star
26:36being what matters to society.
26:39Because you're going to create an emotional connection, whether it's your brand, your service, your product, no matter what it
26:44is.
26:45But think big and use your platform.
26:48Really use your platform for a way to make change in the world.
26:51And that would be my advice to every marketer here.
26:55Thank you.
26:58We haven't rehearsed, you know, who jumps in when.
27:01Absolutely, and I think one of the things that we also learned in some of this data is that we
27:06did a study this year, and we asked people sort of, what do they want to do in the world?
27:11And 80% of them said, change it for the better.
27:14That's a really big ambition.
27:16You know, leaders today want to actually positively change the world.
27:20But possibly the more important figure that we learned is that only 57% of those felt empowered and prepared
27:27to do so.
27:28So I think as marketers, we have to think about our platform, and we have to think about what we
27:32do as really enablement, right?
27:35Yes, it's about messaging, it's about advertising, it's about campaigns, but we really need to provide those tools and that
27:41knowledge and that data to make folks feel empowered and prepared to change the world for the better.
27:46And I think that's really critical.
27:48And I think the other part of it is inspiration that we've been talking about, right?
27:51So I think there's a lot about that empowerment and that utility and how marketing can be that utility, but
27:57it also needs to emotionally connect or it's not going to resonate.
27:59And so how do we think about really doing so in an inspiring way?
28:03And one last thing, just keep at it.
28:05I think it's tenacity.
28:06I think even despite being, you know, part of an organization where sustainability is incredibly native to how we think
28:13about the world, you know, working on that Bloomberg Green project, it was tough.
28:17I had to push really, really hard and keep pushing and still have to keep pushing.
28:21We're expanding it today, we're investing in new journalists, we're investing in greener living and B2C content, but it doesn't
28:27come naturally to everybody.
28:28And so really just staying incredibly committed and being tenacious.
28:33So they said everything, but yes, you did.
28:36No, it's, I think that we really have to tell, this is the role of the agencies to tell to
28:42the marketers, you can lead a positive change, really.
28:46You have a big role to play.
28:48Never forget it because you talk to the real, you talk to people.
28:51So you have a huge responsibility, a great power, but a huge responsibility.
28:57And if you want to have the biggest impact, please do it with the lowest impact.
29:02So that's why the, that's the name of our process, the communication process, no impact for a big impact and
29:08be creative, be interesting, be creative, because we cannot be, we're not allowed to be boring with sustainability.
29:17I love this.
29:18I love this.
29:18Thank you so much, Anne, Agathe and Sarah.
29:21Thank you so much.
29:22Thank you.
29:23Thank you.
29:24Thank you very much.
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