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Human Digitalization Harnessing Tech for a Greener Future
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00:00Générique
00:38Hello everyone and welcome. I hope you're having a great time at VivaTech. I hope you are not too warm
00:45and I hope you had a beautiful lunch. I'm really happy to be with you this afternoon.
00:49All afternoon here we are going to talk about energy and climate tech and I have the great pleasure, without
00:55waiting further, to welcome on stage Marion Moreau and her guests. Please make a round of applause for Marion Moreau.
01:24Hey, thank you. Thank you, VivaTech. I do hope everybody is great. Are you feeling okay? Are you feeling good
01:33today? Yes? Yes, that's great. Yes.
01:38Yes, of course, we're going to talk about not only technology, but of course sustainability, which is of course not
01:47a topic, not a challenge, a top priority, I think so.
01:51Let me just introduce my guest today. Very honored to have you here on stage two at VivaTech, Biljana Keitović.
02:00How are you, Biljana?
02:01I'm doing great and thanks. It's an honor to be here. Exactly. You're working at Engie Group. Engie is of
02:08course not a company which has taken into account sustainability. It is a core mission of Engie on energy and
02:17energy transition. And we will of course discuss about that. So welcome once again.
02:23And we have also Thierry Gertz. Hi, Thierry. Good afternoon. You managed Google for Belgium for a long time. I
02:33don't know.
02:34Twelve years in the meantime.
02:35Twelve years at Google Belgium. Ages.
02:36Belgium. Yeah, yeah. So you know a lot about digital at large, we guess. And you wrote a book. We
02:46could not find the book in France except on different digital platforms. The book has been edited in Belgium. This
02:56book is called Homo Digitalis. What was just the intention in a few words?
03:02Just to explain the technology transformation. We live in the digital revolution. And it's making the people afraid of technology.
03:11While technology is giving opportunities to solve problems, even big problems, like for example, sustainability.
03:17And if we are afraid of something, then we don't use it. And I think it's a pity. So my
03:22role was to explain as much as possible what technology is doing with us as humans, society, companies, so that
03:29we can get a better use of it and make a better world.
03:33Thierry, you've said that digital, and that's why we are introduced with the book Homo Digitalis. You say we've ruined
03:41the world.
03:44Yes, well, in 200 years of industrial transformation, we did amazing things. Because, for example, feeding the planet is impossible
03:52without industrial. We've lowered, you know, we reduced the number of child born by 90%. So we did amazing things.
04:01Well, let's recognize that.
04:02But in the meantime, we also ruined the planet by using gas, fossil energy, and also a lot of raw
04:07materials. And so the question for humanity today is to say, how do we continue progressing, but without ruining that
04:14planet?
04:15Mm-hmm.
04:15And I think that's really the kind of solution that we have to think about, but also the solution that
04:19we kind of have. Because if you think about it, the sun is giving us more energy every day than
04:26we need for a full year to operate the planet.
04:28So, and then you add on wind energy, geothermics, and all of the other technologies. So we have enough sustainable
04:36energy to make the planet run, but we don't do it. And then people say, oh, it's not possible to
04:44capture that energy.
04:45And so at Google, we wanted to prove that. And since 2017, on a yearly basis, every energy that we
04:52use, imagine for all the services that we have, billions of people that we service, we only use wind and
04:59solar power.
04:59So if we can do that at the scale of Google, we believe that's inspirational for the others to do
05:04the same thing. But it's not easy. You have to believe you can do it.
05:07And to believe you can do it, you have to understand also that digital transformation can also help to use
05:13less energy. For example, think about music. We used to purchase music in plastic boxes, CDs.
05:21So you have the CDs, you have to put it in plastic boxes, and then you have to travel them
05:25around in all the planets with trucks and diesel, and finally you end up listening to a CD.
05:31Today, you use Spotify, and with Spotify, you have all the music of the world without having transported anything and
05:38without plastic. But then the people say to me, oh, yeah, that's a trick from Google, because in the meantime,
05:43you have those big data centers, and they are consuming huge energy.
05:47Yes, but the data center is using wind and solar power. So when you use Spotify, which is on our
05:52servers, you use wind and solar power.
05:55So there is really a path forward to make the planet more sustainable, to make those services more accessible to
06:03everyone, and to solve it. But we have to believe into it, and then work together to make it done.
06:08Biljana, from an ENGIE perspective, energy transition is on a big acceleration. We see with the EV industry, in mobility,
06:22we see in many sectors.
06:23What about ENGIE today? How could the company not only enable, but participate entirely in that acceleration for a good
06:35transition?
06:36Yeah, so I'm very happy to share that for ENGIE, the raison d'être, so the whole reason of being
06:44is to act to accelerate the energy transition.
06:46So this topic that we're discussing now is really why we're here. We really consider this is our purpose in
06:53life.
06:53And for me, it was actually a huge motivator to join the company, because I want to be in the
06:57company that doesn't only say the nice words with regards to the carbonization, but actually acts upon it.
07:02And just to share a couple of things. So in ENGIE, since 2016, we have made our purpose to be
07:09net zero carbon by 2045 on all three scopes.
07:13And it might not be that impressive to say, okay, it's 2045, but it's an energy company.
07:18So basically, the carbon footprint is very large, and then having the ambition to follow all three scopes, that is
07:25actually quite major.
07:26And so far, from 2017 until today, we actually managed to go down 30%. So we're really acting, and we
07:32have given up our oil business that we have, production and exploration.
07:37We're getting out of coal, so we'll be fully out of coal by 2025 in Europe, and then after that
07:42in the rest of the world.
07:43And then we're doing a lot more, because we're also educating some of the regulators with regards to how they
07:50should be acting.
07:51So Europe has a plan of being net zero carbon by 2050. And just at the beginning of this week,
07:57on Monday, we had a very big media event where we have shared some of the convictions that we have
08:01with regards to how to achieve that.
08:02So Europe, I don't know if you might have known, but I think it's a very interesting number.
08:07For Europe to achieve the goals that we have, we need to increase the electrification by 80% compared to
08:13where it is now.
08:14And to do that, we need to multiply by the factor of six, our wind and solar.
08:19But for us, to achieve that, that means a lot of things.
08:22So first of all, it means electrification. We believe it's not going to be enough if you only do that.
08:27We believe in a very big marriage of electron and the molecule.
08:31So if you walk around and go to the engine booth, you will see nice words about electron plus molecule.
08:37It means we trust the fact that if you just rely on the electrification, that you put too much pressure
08:45on the resilience of the energy system.
08:48So we will need molecules in some shape or form because you can transform them, you can transport them, you
08:53can use, you can export and import, and you can use the existing infrastructure.
08:59Because for us to build the infrastructure we need for the electrification, it's going to take a long time.
09:04And we believe it's, on one hand, you need to take the costs into account and make the energy affordable.
09:09On the other hand, it's really about the system.
09:12That's like a scientific equation or, you know, something scheme.
09:15It's a very complex equation to solve.
09:17So I'm a mathematician in Seoul.
09:20So it's a very complex equation for which to solve, you actually need quite a lot of mathematics.
09:26You need quite a lot of modeling.
09:27You need artificial intelligence.
09:28You need digital.
09:29And this is where the connection with digital becomes extremely important.
09:33Thank you for the transition because I would like to discuss about technologies and how technologies...
09:38That's a big question, you know, for everybody.
09:41How digital is useful to solve, you know, climate problems and different changes.
09:50What is your statement, Thierry, about that?
09:54And what kind of technology can really solve problems?
09:58And what kind of technology that are not so useful because of carbon emissions, for instance?
10:04First of all, the first question is, do I have to produce something?
10:08So the question is, can I digitalize this?
10:10Can I, instead of traveling around, can I do video conferencing?
10:13So in everything that you do, companies, education, everything can think about, do I have to travel?
10:20Do you have to produce it?
10:21Can I digitalize it?
10:22Then if you say, no, I still have to produce something and I need energy, then I think, how can
10:27I reduce the number of energy used by that?
10:30And for that, we use digital twins.
10:32So we make, for example, a copy of a production facility or a logistical chain.
10:38Or in our case, we make a digital copy of a data center.
10:41And then you can look at the flows of energy and optimize that.
10:45Now, if you do a digital twin, you make a copy of what you do with sensors and imagery.
10:51You make a copy and you combine that with data from your suppliers, from your customers, also from the outside.
10:57Temperature, meteorologist, and so on.
11:02Digitalizing the physical world, in a way.
11:04Make a copy of the real world in a digital world.
11:07So that you can try working and optimize it.
11:09But then you have so much data, we call it a data lake, that it's difficult for human to understand
11:15everything and to optimize the process.
11:17And that's why AI comes.
11:18You can have machine learning working with you to optimize your process.
11:23And then we see amazing things.
11:24We did that for our data centers and we reduced the electricity needed for cooling of data centers, which is
11:30quite huge, by 40%.
11:33Not 4%, 40%.
11:3540%.
11:3640%, 4-0.
11:37By using machine learning on a digital twin of a data center.
11:41And so that's just an example.
11:42And every company can do that.
11:44You know, you can now use APIs of that technology so that everybody can use that.
11:48And so we have to rethink the total other way how we use technology, how we use energy, and how
11:56we reduce the use.
11:57Before to think about going green, reduce the usage is the best thing you can do.
12:02Then you need less solar panels, less windmills.
12:05So the success of this transformation will be both, you know, three things.
12:10Digitalize first, then reduce by AI the usage of energy, and then go green.
12:18Biljana, as responsible for technology and advanced technology at Engie, how do you see AI, for instance, on this, you
12:30know, big change to solve?
12:33Do you agree with Thierry?
12:35Is it useful to modelize the physical world in a way and process new processes?
12:41I would say it's not only useful, it's necessary.
12:44Because the systems we are talking about are very complex.
12:48So, for instance, the energy system used to be rather simple in the past.
12:52You would have fossil fuels, you would have quite stable production, relatively stable demand, and you would be able to
12:57do it kind of in human terms.
13:00Now the energy system is extremely complex because it became extremely decentralized.
13:05So you have numerous, in multiple places, microgrids, a lot of different producers, consumers.
13:12So think about the different solar farms, different wind farms.
13:17Then you have power plants that are fueled, for instance, by gas still.
13:23Then you have the solar on the rooftops of the buildings, of industrial.
13:27Then you have EV charging, you have batteries.
13:30It's becoming extremely complex.
13:31And for a human being, it is impossible to optimize that very difficult system, specifically if you put it under
13:37different constraints.
13:38So to give you an example, in EV charging, so there are different territories or different industries that want to
13:44have their EV charging network.
13:46Now, EV charging network actually comes under a lot of different constraints from the grid because you cannot just use
13:51any electricity that you want at any given time.
13:53Then there's another constraint or almost goals coming from the users.
13:57What is the user comfort that the user needs?
13:59And there's, of course, a price of the electricity at any given moment.
14:03So you need to take these different constraints into account and actually create a system that will optimize based on
14:08whatever the goal is, whether it goes towards the user or the cost reduction.
14:12And similarly, for instance, when we talk about the electron and molecule, we're talking actually about the green molecules.
14:17So things like biomethane or hydrogen.
14:20So to produce hydrogen, actually today in the electrolyzers, the biggest cost related to that comes from the electricity.
14:26About more than 80% of the costs come from there.
14:28So it's really important to optimize the electricity that is green.
14:32So take the electricity that comes either from wind or solar, which is intermittent.
14:37So you need to be able to predict when and how much of electricity you will get and also connect
14:43that with the prices in the grid to reduce the cost of hydrogen that later on you can use to
14:48decarbonize some of the sectors that are very difficult to decarbonize in other ways, like heavy industry sectors or, for
14:54instance, the aviation or the maritime sector.
14:56So, so at the bottom of or at the base of the costs actually sits the energy and then energy
15:03efficiencies that the theory has mentioned.
15:06So, of course, we're using digital twins.
15:07I think it's it's necessary today, but as well, we are we're using different we collect data and give it
15:14in the hands of the users, whether they're their customers.
15:17So like us, you know, at home when you basically you have your application to check your own electricity or
15:22gas usage and as well the big industrial so that they can see real time how much they're using and
15:28that they can get tips.
15:29For instance, yeah, sure your household how it compares to another household and what you should be doing and for
15:34instance, when do you run your machine?
15:36Yeah, what are the most optimal ways for you to on one hand cut costs and on the other hand
15:40to save electricity and then we do that for the customers and we do it for the industrials.
15:44So for very big industrial networks like the district heating and cooling, like in Paris, we have a pressure the
15:50party.
15:51Yeah, the cooling network where with digital solutions, we're able to get to about 12 to 15 percent energy efficiency.
15:58So it really makes a difference.
16:00Mm-hmm.
16:01Yeah, because we have to measure in fact, of course, any initiative, even very futuristic or technical technological needs now,
16:09specific measurements.
16:11Do you agree on that, Thierry?
16:13It's important to measure.
16:14Yeah, we need definitely to measure, but I think we have now the measurement in place.
16:19It's now to act and to move and just to understand that everybody can contribute because in the past it
16:25was only the energy company doing something about electricity.
16:27Today, everybody is doing that.
16:30You know, everyone, people are putting solar panels, their own, and they have with apps, they can manage their temperature
16:36in their home better.
16:37So we get the tools that we never could imagine that consumers, 90 percent of the consumers have a smartphone.
16:43They do amazing deals with that just to manage their own energy consumption and also to measure to the consumers.
16:49So governments have measurements, but now also people have the measurement of their own homes.
16:55And with the energy prices of last year, I think everybody learned that it was useful and are getting to
17:00use those tools.
17:01And I think that's an interesting moment in time where almost everyone gets excited about it and recognize that we
17:08have amazing tools.
17:10And also I like to say that the people are not homo sapiens anymore.
17:14We have a four to another species.
17:16We are homo digitalis because we have now things that we can do that you couldn't imagine 10, 20, 100
17:22years ago.
17:23You know, you can chat with one, four billion people almost.
17:27You can talk one of the 30 languages.
17:29You can visit another planet and you can manage your energy.
17:33You have solar panels and you can decide to not to put the energy that you produce in the grid,
17:38but to lower up the temperature of your water and do those kind of things.
17:42And I think it's an amazing moment in time and recognize that consumers, employees and managers are now kind of
17:48superhumans with superpowers
17:50because you have those digital technology at our fingertips and using it for goods.
17:55That's exciting.
17:56That's exciting.
17:58I agree on that.
17:59Just to conclude, isn't it the question for somehow of education and what kind of role Engie, for instance,
18:09to cooperate like Engie could play, you know, on this very needed initiative.
18:14And that's why you have written such a book, you know, with this concept that people have lived a very
18:27high speed acceleration into the digital era without being so educated at large, you know, if we see it in
18:34a massive way.
18:35So I just wonder how now companies could play a different role into education and more of a into climate
18:43change.
18:44And we need that.
18:45I think companies are playing already extremely active role and I think it's a must for companies to do that.
18:51So so I'll just share I've shared already the example of Engie at the beginning of the week.
18:56We had a massive event where we have shared the conviction where we can share the convictions of how we
19:01can help to decarbonize Europe and what are the different trajectories that Europe can take.
19:05We also do a lot more.
19:07So we have a consultancy arm called Engie Impact where we want to make impact in other industries, in other
19:13sectors, to other companies and help them to get through there to find their trajectories that are affordable,
19:20that are cost effective for them to become net zero because I don't know if you if you read somewhere
19:25the statistics from last COP 27 85% of companies have very strong decarbonization goals.
19:33They have until 2030 2050 that they will be net carbon zero, but only 25% of companies actually have
19:40a line of sight of how to achieve that.
19:42Yeah.
19:43And this is where companies like Engie who actually have a know how and who have solutions that can be
19:48deployed can have can help and have obligation to help those who do not how to do it.
19:55Because then you bring the consultancy and then you again bring the digital solutions that can help you to look
20:01at different scenarios of how you can achieve that.
20:04And depending on what your goal is, whether to accelerate to do it as fast as you can or to
20:07do it as affordably as you can, then digital can help you make the right decisions and track your progress
20:13over time.
20:14So it's not a surprise when you reach 2045 to say, well, actually, we're not quite there.
20:18Yeah, sure.
20:18So I think we really have the right and the obligation to be in the center of the position.
20:23Yeah, and we're finding a good virtual cycles.
20:26Just a word to conclude, Thierry.
20:29Homo Digitaliso, your book.
20:31I do the promotion for the book.
20:34So Homo Digitaliso is how digitalization is making us more human, which can sound completely contra-intuitive.
20:42What you read in the news is always a negative element of it.
20:45But if you think about yourself back and you see the benefits that we have had.
20:49And I think as a sector, as a tech sector, we have a reputation to defend that we can solve
20:55those problems and we can help contribute to that.
20:58And also create excitement.
20:59Because I think if you have that vision to say, you know what, we will solve this problem.
21:03Then you get the people to think in another way and to work together to succeed in that.
21:08And I think what Google has done, we started in 2007 to be carbon neutral.
21:13And we said we have 10 years to be completely based on wind and solar.
21:16And we didn't know how to do it at that moment in time.
21:19But we succeeded because it's creating enthusiasm.
21:23And there are a lot of risks on cyber.
21:25Cyber security, privacy, regulation has to be there.
21:28But let's not forget of the problem that we can solve.
21:31And let's start today.
21:32Yeah, that's a good view to be seen as a challenge, like a gamification to reach the goal.
21:39Thank you so much, Biljana.
21:41And thank you, Thierry.
21:42Thank you, the audience, for this panel discussion.
21:45Thank you.
21:46Thank you, Mario.
21:47Enjoy Viva Technology.
21:48Thank you.
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