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The Future of Media
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00:00Let's get cracking. Ideally, in this panel, you'll learn a lot about where media is going, where marketing is going,
00:06you'll be surprised by some things, and if I'm lucky, we'll get a little bit of tension, a little bit
00:10of intense conversation. Let's get cracking, and I'm going to start with Rob at the far end. You ready to
00:15go?
00:15Sure. Nice to be here.
00:17Yeah. Welcome. One, two, three, let's go. It's a short panel. So, my first question for you. When I was
00:23reading, reading up on these wonderful, lovely, very intelligent panelists, I read a quote from you from 2018, and in
00:31it, you said, in four to five years, no, you said in five years, there will be one platform, one
00:37thing that doesn't exist right now that will transform the way advertising works. So, we're here, and what is it?
00:43Well, so, I suppose the obvious answer is Meta, because we'd never heard of a company called Meta five years
00:49ago, but we have now, but more broadly, what Meta seems to want to represent in the future is the
00:55Metaverse as the next platform, and whilst there's no way in which it's revolutionized advertising yet, if one was going
01:03to bet on one direction that would change it, that would be it.
01:06So, five years ago, you would not have said that advertising in, and you think of the Metaverse as virtual
01:12reality, is that how you're defining it?
01:13So, I think of the Metaverse now, I didn't think about it like this then, really, but I think about
01:20it as an environment that is tokenized, on the one hand, and an environment which gives access to and encourages
01:26behaviors in virtual spaces, and I think that as an idea, the two together, tokenization and virtualized spaces, is new
01:34and relevant to the future of marketing and society.
01:37All right, Shelley, let's go to you. You care a lot about this. Your belief, if I've read my prep
01:42documents correctly, is that as the Metaverse is built, it would potentially be built in a way that excludes women
01:48and is terrible for women, like other platforms. Is that correct? And if so, how do we avoid that?
01:53Well, I mean, first of all, I love that you started with Rob, because you said you want tension, and
01:58you can definitely get tension when you start with Rob.
02:00So, I think the greatest part about the Metaverse and Web3 is, it's going to be a space, and we
02:06are the official partners in Decentraland, I think it's going to be a space where women first, we are bringing
02:12a ton of women into Web3, so women will rule and write the rules in the Metaverse.
02:18So, we are going to be sure that we bring them in there so that it is going to be
02:22safe, secure, and that we lead.
02:24And I think that that is a real big opportunity for women in Web3. So, we're pretty excited about that.
02:32What rules specifically for the Metaverse need to be written so that the Metaverse is not an exclusionary space?
02:38Well, we want it to be an inclusionary space, and when we go to conferences right now in Web3, we
02:43see plenty of women showing up, and I think it's because it's a new territory.
02:47And so, we don't want to be left behind. And so, if women come in early, which Web3 right now
02:53is an early space, we can ensure that we will be front and center and not left behind.
02:59So, it's more about getting women in there than it is about setting particular ground rules around privacy, access.
03:07Right. So, if women come in at the same time as men, we can be sure that we won't be
03:12left out.
03:13So, we need to get in early and stay in and not get out. And I think that's the most
03:19important piece.
03:20Okay.
03:21So, education, awareness, and not just getting into the creative part, but getting into the business of Web3 is very
03:26important.
03:27So, you would like all the women in the audience to get into the Metaverse. You're in, in the LA
03:32cap, Dodgers cap.
03:33Who's in? Girls, who's in? See? There you have it.
03:38Okay. Well, lots of women in the Metaverse, lots of good marketing opportunities. Maybe it is exactly changing what you
03:43said.
03:44Valor, let's go to you. So, LinkedIn doesn't have a huge presence in the Metaverse yet.
03:49So, let's talk about some other things. One of the trends in advertising and in marketing that probably everybody's been
03:57following and affects every business is kind of the decentralization and they're relying on individuals as opposed to brands, right?
04:06Going, marketing your product not by buying an ad in a magazine, but by going to an individual, going to
04:12an influencer.
04:12Tell me how you think that trend is going to keep evolving.
04:17Yeah. One of the things I think is really interesting, just generally, and I would push back a little bit
04:21and say, I wouldn't say that we're completely going away from brands communicating in favor of solely individuals. It's probably
04:27a blend of both.
04:28Well, thank goodness, or otherwise I'd be totally out of business. So, I'm like, I'm not in favor of that.
04:32I'm just saying it's kind of happening.
04:35And so, I think what's really interesting...
04:36If you are an advertiser out there, you should still advertise in the Atlantic and you should all subscribe to
04:39the Atlantic. Thank you very much. Back to Valerie.
04:42One of the things I think is interesting is as we've looked at kind of the role of influencers in
04:47a lot of consumer marketing, what we haven't seen is a ton of maturity in the role of influencers or
04:53even the defining of who influencers are in the B2B marketing space.
04:57And that obviously for us in LinkedIn, when we think about the products and services marketplace in which the platform
05:02is built, that's a huge opportunity space for us to think about what does influence and influencers and an influencer
05:09economy look like in the B2B marketing space.
05:11And we've been talking a lot around orientation around product communities, what happens when you bring together not just a
05:19seller and a buyer, but also a user and a builder, and what kind of conversations begin to happen and
05:25where does influence exist.
05:26So, that's a space that's particularly interesting to us as it relates to how influencers and the influencer economy pushes
05:32into that space.
05:33So, what are you doing to make that vision more real?
05:38So, there's a lot of work happening inside our marketing solutions product management team that's exploring the idea of how
05:46you bring different communities of people together, not necessarily because they share the same title or they share the same
05:52role, but because they each have a piece of information that is valuable to understanding a product, a solution, or
05:59an offering.
05:59And so, all of that conversation and content exists today on the platform, but we haven't organized it in that
06:06context.
06:07And we haven't allowed people to badge and signal and connect with one another more on like a topicality front.
06:14So, there's a lot of work going on in the next couple of years in the platform around topicality and
06:18how we begin to leverage that for product communities.
06:21So, Rob, does that seem like an exciting place for marketers? If there's a CMO out here, should they be
06:27thinking about finding B2B influencers on LinkedIn? Is that a hot space?
06:33Well, I do some advisory work for LinkedIn. So, the answer is manifestly yes. So, I won't elaborate on that.
06:39But I think that I'm listening to Valerie talk about this the first time.
06:43And what I think I'm hearing is that the world is increasingly becoming a wiki, and that everyone is trying
06:49to find a way to contribute, and many enterprises are trying to find ways of being contributed to.
06:55And the enterprise that sets itself up as a wiki and thinks about the open sourcing of ideas and thinks
07:02about itself as a hub for synthesizing those ideas will be very advantaged through its openness and its speed to
07:09market.
07:10Now, if you're an advertiser, what you're looking for always is relevance, reach, and engagement, and you're looking at some
07:19kind of scale.
07:20And so, if you have scaled conversations around these kind of wiki topics, then the idea of advertising, attaching themselves
07:27to those is actually pretty valuable.
07:29So, give me a specific example of how an advertiser has operated like a wiki so that I can understand
07:36more of what you mean. It sounds extremely enticing, but what is it?
07:39Well, without going into the detail of various people's targeting opportunities, but you can, on LinkedIn, through job title, through
07:47subject matter, and everything else, find different topics around SaaS software or whatever it is meant to be, and specify
07:53your advertising target by those cohorts of behaviors and groups of interest so it can be done.
07:58I don't think anyone's set about yet really defining kind of a wiki-like behavior as a mechanism for the
08:05distributing of advertising, but we know, don't we, from what we've seen in Facebook and other areas, that where communities
08:12gather and where communities share, the opportunity to attach messaging to those community activities is a strong one.
08:19Makes good sense, Shelley. Does this sound like what you foresee in the future, and does the history of wiki
08:27-like communities suggest inclusion?
08:32I think, just to make this simple, and let's just cut to the chase, I think we're living in more
08:38than a channel world, we're living in a content world, and a consumer world, and a community world.
08:43And we're not about pushing message anymore, we're living in a pool world. Consumers, and I wrote this, I just
08:51feel like I'm going back to 2000. I wrote a speech, and it was called I-W-W-I-W
08:59-I-W-I. I want what I want, when I want it.
09:04It's just so true. Consumers are all about me. I want what I want, and they want it when they
09:12want it, and that is just so incredibly true.
09:14And it's all about their targeted, hyper-targeted communities. And if we're not gonna create the messaging that consumers want,
09:24then who the heck cares?
09:26You know, and I think that that's what advertisers need to understand. They can't push the message that they want
09:33to push. They need to understand their consumers.
09:36And we're living in a world today where consumers are creating their own content, because they can. And if advertisers
09:45aren't creating their message, then the consumer will.
09:47And there's technology today that allows them to do it. And that's why the influencers are really winning with TikTok
09:56and all this, you know, technology today, because they are reaching the consumers where they want to be reached in
10:05the way they want to be reached.
10:07So, who's kidding who?
10:09So, if we believe this vision of the future, what are the forms of media that are popular right now
10:16and that advertisers use right now that will be displaced?
10:19I give that to any of you. Like, what are we doing right now that we'll stop doing?
10:23Because we're gonna spend more time in Wiki-like environments, communicating directly with consumers. What are the things that will
10:29go away?
10:30I'm just gonna offer that I think we, we thought there were lots of things that were gonna stop happening
10:36when digital and particularly social media came on the rise.
10:40Everyone went, nobody's gonna watch TV anymore, you can call that dead.
10:43And I think what we found actually is that the capacity that human beings have to continue to consume more
10:50and more and more media means that it's been much more additive than I think we expected.
10:54Even as you might have seen some share shift and arguably you can talk about different formats of video.
10:57So, I would have a hard time betting on displacement just because I feel like we've been betting on displacement
11:04for years and it actually hasn't happened.
11:07I mean, hell, we're still running a print magazine.
11:10Yeah, but I don't think it's about omnimedia, I think it's about omnipresence.
11:14And so, I think all forms of media has to be concurrent and consumable.
11:20I mean, people are multitasking on steroids. So, the screens have to be, you know, the content has to be
11:26consumable in real time and speed time at the same time.
11:33Or, forget it.
11:36Let's go for a second. We're about halfway through the panel. I want to talk about something interesting that happened
11:41a few years ago.
11:42It actually came up in the last panel too, where Cambridge Analytica hit and there was a big privacy backlash.
11:47And the way I read the internet was that from basically the time it started until 2018, people cared less
11:53and less about privacy.
11:55And then suddenly they cared a lot more about privacy. Where is that going? Five years from now?
12:02The people in the audience here look quite a bit younger than I am.
12:07Will they care more about privacy than I did when they're my, than I do when they're my age?
12:13Will we care more or will we care less? Rob, you want to take that?
12:16Well, I think in, in the United States, people change their view about privacy when the Patriot Act arrived in
12:25their lives after 9-11.
12:27And they realize that there is no longer a right to privacy period.
12:31And it's a question now about what they're prepared to have their data used for and whether they can actually
12:37see it coming.
12:38So, people don't like having their data used for identity theft. They don't like their data being used for random
12:45retargeting for things they've already bought.
12:47But they do like, albeit passively, their data being used to stop them having to log in over and over
12:53again with new credentials in different places and so forth.
12:56So, what people have realized is that there is a value exchange for their data in terms of their convenience
13:02and the things that inconvenience them.
13:04And so, the bar will get higher on what it is that people are prepared to give away their data
13:10for.
13:11But the bar will meet a very kind of fuzzy and tricky area when the value of the platforms they
13:17use is undermined by their inability to share their data passively.
13:22My own view is that regulators are out in front of real consumer desire for privacy.
13:28I think if you're a regulator, what you tend to do is to regulate.
13:33And my own view is that the GDPR so far and CCPA and many other state and other national legislation
13:43have not really created a more enhanced and more valuable experience to the consumer.
13:49Can we do a show of hands in the audience? So, how many people care a lot about protecting their
13:56own data and go into settings and protect it and turn off tracking?
14:01How many people care a little bit, like they're a little bit annoyed at it, maybe they click oct out?
14:07And how many people don't give a shit because the more data you give up, the better the ads you
14:11get are?
14:12Huh. Pretty privacy focused group. We got a few don't give a shit, so we got a lot of change
14:18their settings. Pretty impressive for VivaTech.
14:20Is that about Square what you would have expected, Val?
14:23Probably today. I think one of the things that the marketing and advertising industry might be underestimating or not paying
14:30enough attention to is,
14:32as we get into second and third generation of like truly digitally native populations and segments, I think we've got
14:40our eye on how we think about the changing identity landscape and its impact on marketing in the context of
14:45regulation.
14:46I think we think about it in the context of tech platforms, the decisions that Apple and Google are making.
14:51I don't think we are thinking far enough ahead to prepare for a generation that might demand total and complete
14:58agency over their digital identities.
15:00Like I think right now we go, ah, consumers don't care that much. And as you know, noted by this
15:05anecdotal panel, I just wonder if we're not paying enough attention to a rise in that.
15:10And when it happens, I think it will happen swiftly and I think we'll be unprepared for it.
15:15I'd like to ask Shelley a question. And my question is this. You have a very extensive market research background.
15:21And I want to know what you think about the sample that was being used to answer the question of
15:25in this particular.
15:26You know, it's so funny. I think you just read my mind. I was just thinking about that. I'm a
15:30market researcher.
15:31So for any of you that have taken those shitty surveys on the internet, sorry, not sorry, I'm the mother
15:35of that invention.
15:36And so I was just surveying all of you thinking about the answer to that question.
15:41And the one thing I started thinking about was demographic profiling is shit and that doesn't work anymore. Psychographic profiling,
15:50behavior graphic profiling is better.
15:53But what we have to be thinking about more is around passion points. And how do we really start connecting
16:00the dots on passion?
16:01Because I think that that's what is more important, you know, to be profiling. And then with AI, we are
16:09using that.
16:10But search hasn't been working very well because we are usually it's more gender and it's male. So we're missing
16:20the female in there. So that's so biased.
16:24What do you mean that search is biased? When you look at Google search, we're underrepresented in females. So when
16:32you look at things like CEOs, we don't see a good profile because there's no female CEOs.
16:41So you don't see the images properly. It's misrepresented. Or when you're looking at race, we are underrepresented in so
16:49many different areas. So it's engineers, we don't have enough of everything.
16:55So when I'm looking at this audience, it's looking like a good demographic mix. We're okay with that.
17:01But it's just AI isn't going to work because when you have junk in, you get junk out. So you
17:08need to have a representative population to get good AI.
17:12This audience looks like the most demographically desirable audience to advertisers in the world. They're like young, attractive, smart, engaged.
17:19So good audience here.
17:20Marketers want you.
17:21You're good. You're really represented. But it's an issue. So, you know, you have to have representation in AI to
17:29get good, you know, bias in,
17:31bias out.
17:32All right. Let's talk. I want to, we've found a bunch of things. I'm, you know, I came into this
17:36panel wanting to learn to get a good sense of where advertising and media are going.
17:40We've got some very good ideas. Privacy backlash coming, a lot of excitement about the metaverse.
17:44This wiki idea is super interesting to me. Let's talk about an area where advertising weirdly hasn't gone.
17:50So Rob, you predicted a while ago that advertising would be massive inside of the video game world, didn't come
17:57to be. Why not?
17:58Why are there not lots of ads in World of Warcraft?
18:03Well, so what I actually predicted was that Electronic Arts were maybe the next great competitor to YouTube.
18:10It turns out that Twitch become a pretty significant competitor to YouTube. So I wasn't like a hundred percent wrong.
18:15But what no one's really cracked the code of, despite some really good efforts from companies like Anzu, AdMix and
18:22a bunch of others, is the actual embedding of advertiser and advertising experiences in gameplay.
18:29And they are making some progress. But in terms of really making a difference in the multi-billion dollar industry,
18:35that's not happened.
18:37And so whilst there's a bunch of advertising in FIFA and other areas which are native to the environment of
18:42football or Formula One, whatever it may be,
18:44people haven't worked out how to build really effective ad experiences that scale in multiplayer role-playing games.
18:53And that's where the centre of the audience is. And my feeling is that people have to build a much
19:00richer environment that is native to the environment that is being used.
19:05And that requires a degree of investment over time, patience to go with that investment, and an open mind as
19:14to the effect of the activity over a short and long term.
19:17All of which are characteristics that don't really represent the typical advertiser mindset.
19:23And particularly not the typical advertiser mindset when the big R word for recession is on everyone's lips.
19:30That makes good sense. All right, so we have about four minutes left. Let's go around.
19:34And we have four or five really good ideas for things that are coming in the future, future of media.
19:40So I'll start with you, Valerie. So we've mentioned the metaverse. We've talked about B2B social influencers,
19:46which is a crazy idea and a concept I've never heard before talking to Valerie.
19:49We've talked about a privacy backlash. We've talked about wikis.
19:52Tell me one other thing that you think in the next couple of years will be really important for brands
19:58and for media that will maybe be surprising to folks in the audience.
20:03This is a thing that maybe might be skewed by the fact that I deeply, deeply hope that this happens.
20:09But I think particularly in a lot of Western countries or Western cultures around the world,
20:17I'm longing for the renaissance and the re-rise of independent journalism and the advertiser community to take a responsibility
20:26for helping to restore that.
20:28And so that's a...
20:29Independent journalism meaning like sub-stack individuals or like newspapers not owned by conglomerates?
20:35I'm going to draw on the U.S. because that's the country with the term most familiar.
20:39So I'm thinking a little bit about independent journalism existing at a local level.
20:44So the death of local news in the United States has been quite devastating.
20:48And so what that means is individuals are only getting sort of like the big wide sort of national news
20:55headlines.
20:56And the reality is when you think about the quality of your life and the economy and like where your
21:00kids go to school and like what's happening around you,
21:03that's happening on a local level and there's a huge gap in that access to information.
21:07So I just think as a marketing community and advertising community, we hold an enormous amount of responsibility for restoring
21:13that.
21:14So I don't know if that's a prediction or a hope or some combination of both, but it's an expectation
21:20that I have.
21:20It's God's work, right?
21:21The data on cities that have lost their local newspapers and the belief in those cities of democracy, the spread
21:27of fake news,
21:28so many bad indicators correlate quite closely with the death of those communities.
21:32So if you're right and if that happens, that's great.
21:35Shelley?
21:38I think just this whole attention economy and what's happening in the retail space is going to be fascinating.
21:50How so?
21:51I just was in the LVMH world and I was blown away by what's happening in retail and the evolution
22:03there.
22:03You mean the way that people are able to sell, the way you can sell through social commerce, the way
22:07you can...
22:08Yeah, it blew my mind.
22:10Rob?
22:11Well, as I don't have a real job, I can get to say what I like, so I can be
22:17an equal opportunity offender.
22:19And I'm rather hoping that with the tragedy that's unfolding to the east of us in Ukraine and the surrounding
22:27area,
22:28the food prices that's following it, and with the upcoming FIFA World Cup in Qatar, that advertisers and the people
22:36that represent those advertisers
22:37and the consumers that consume what those advertisers make will have some kind of reckoning between the role of advertising
22:44and marketing and brands
22:46and the role of unacceptable regimes and human suffering around the world, because I think it's gone on for far
22:53too long.
22:54And I think that to not put your money in the places that are causing social and actual harm should
23:01be a priority of the way people make decisions in the future.
23:05And Qatar would make the list of a place where you should not put your money.
23:08Oh, absolutely. No question.
23:10Okay. All right. We are out of time. Thank you very much to the wonderful panel.
23:15Thank you to a wonderful audience. Go on to the next one.
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