- 1 year ago
Category
🛠️
LifestyleTranscript
00:00How is it initiated to take what is a successful and a big name print title to digital only?
00:06Our brands need to be where our audiences expect our brands to be.
00:10Vogue was not yet producing content, but there was a ton of Vogue content on TikTok,
00:14because audiences were creating it themselves and posting it.
00:16A lot of companies make a mistake of saying,
00:19this is the activity that's best for our business.
00:21Our brands sit at the center of what we do,
00:23and we create an ecosystem of opportunities to engage with audiences or advertisers.
00:28You have to start at what does our audience want?
00:30What is our audience telling us?
00:31And then figure out how to build a business model around it.
00:36Roger, thank you for being here with me today.
00:38I appreciate it.
00:38It's a pleasure, Michael.
00:40So I want to talk to you, CEO of Condé Nast.
00:44Now, one of the stories that I saw, you're the global CEO,
00:47but it doesn't say that in your title.
00:50It just says CEO.
00:51And that is pretty much all encompassing of what it is that you're doing now?
00:55Yes, I think prior to my joining, the company was really split in two.
01:01There was a U.S. business, which had a CEO,
01:04and there was everything outside of the U.S.
01:06that was run completely independently and had a CEO based in London.
01:10So when I joined, those two stepped aside,
01:13and then I began a process of merging the company
01:16so that we could operate as a global company.
01:18And walk me through one or two of the biggest challenges that you faced.
01:24Well, I think the industry was facing challenges.
01:29That broadly, it varies market by market,
01:32and we're in many, many markets around the world,
01:35but print subscriptions, print advertising were declining.
01:41But there was an opportunity to grow in other new areas that we had to develop.
01:45A lot of it we had to develop.
01:46So we had that sort of industry overlay on top of what was a company
01:52that was really organized.
01:54You know, the company's over 100 years old,
01:56and it was still organized like a print company.
01:59So every country where we operated,
02:01operated completely independently from every other country.
02:04There was no sharing of content or technology or insights
02:07or even creating sort of brand guidelines.
02:12It was all independent.
02:14And then within each country, every brand operated completely independently,
02:19which meant that the sales teams, for instance,
02:22for Vogue would be different than the sales teams for GQ
02:26and would in effect compete with each other.
02:28And so what I, you know, I was not from this industry,
02:31so I sort of had an outsider's view,
02:33and I just looked at it and said,
02:34okay, if I were starting this company today,
02:37what would be a structure that would make sense to me?
02:41Knowing that the growth is going to be in digital areas.
02:45And so we embarked on a multi-year process to really,
02:50you know, really to the core of the company change how we operate,
02:54how we're structured, how we share content,
02:57how we share information, technology.
03:00And that was, you know, that was as much an organizational change.
03:04It was even more a cultural change.
03:06So I'm a big fan of promoting the local content
03:10that the different publishers produce.
03:13And in a previous life, I worked at a magazine publishing house here.
03:18And I believe that there will be lots of opportunities for the local team
03:24to take content from some of the international brands.
03:28But I wonder, will the international brands feel comfortable
03:33or will they be encouraged to take stuff from what the Dubai team produces?
03:38It's core to how we work today.
03:40And that was, you know, again, when I joined and I would go around
03:43and I meet with some of our editorial teams around the world,
03:46I heard a similar story from each one of them, which is,
03:49you know, our audiences in fill in the blank, whatever country,
03:52Italy, France, you know, Taiwan, didn't matter,
03:56are only interested in content produced locally here.
04:00They would all say the same thing.
04:02And I would say, well, let's look at the data.
04:05Let's look at what the traffic to your websites,
04:09but also how audiences in your country are accessing our titles around the world.
04:15And in almost every country, you'd see 35 to 40%
04:19of the audience was coming from outside of the market.
04:22And 35, 40% of their audience was going to other titles outside of their market.
04:26And so, yeah, we just tell make the, you know,
04:29if you look at what the audiences are telling us,
04:30they're telling us something completely different.
04:33They're interested in the content from around the world.
04:35We're just not organized in a way to present that effectively.
04:40And we're also, you know, if you look at like our biggest title is Vogue.
04:44Vogue has a lot of influence around the world.
04:48And I really felt like we were squandering it by never having an ability to have Vogue
04:53as a brand globally get behind an initiative because there was no global Vogue.
04:58Everything was independent in every country.
05:01So you're out here for the big reveal for what's going to be happening
05:07for Vogue Arabia and for GQ Middle East.
05:09Can you tell me from a strategic point of view
05:13what you see Dubai and the UAE and the GCC doing for both brands?
05:18First of all, it's a region I've been interested in for a long time.
05:23I first came to Dubai almost 25 years ago.
05:26I've done business in the region.
05:28I used to, in a previous company I started years ago,
05:31I would bring content from the Middle East into the US
05:34and serving to the diaspora there.
05:36So it's always been a region I've been interested in.
05:40It's also for our categories.
05:43Our biggest categories are luxury, fashion, travel, beauty.
05:47A very fast growing region.
05:50And I felt like it was when we were operating through licensees here,
05:55we weren't seeing the growth that really represented the opportunity in the region.
05:59We take our biggest brand, Vogue.
06:01Globally, Vogue has grown every year in the last four years.
06:04We weren't seeing the same benefits in this region,
06:09principally because most of that growth has come through innovation
06:13in creating new digital products or e-commerce or events or things like that.
06:19It's not from the traditional business.
06:21And we felt like we really needed to see the growth match the opportunity here.
06:27And we felt the best way to do that was to own and operate our brands directly.
06:31Now, in doing that, though, there's been a little bit of pushback
06:34from at least one of the local publishers.
06:38What can you tell me about where that situation stands now?
06:41Well, we appreciate our licensees.
06:43And we have many licensees that we work with around the world
06:46that have helped build businesses.
06:49I can't comment specifically because of confidentiality agreements about that.
06:54But what I can say is that our license is expired with our licensees.
07:00And we're launching them under our own and operated business here in Dubai.
07:05One of the issues that I'm familiar with, having been and continuing to be a journalist,
07:12will you, do you think, and maybe it's not something that you're too concerned about,
07:17but there's going to be pushback from some of the other brands
07:21when it comes to maybe taking content from this part of the world
07:25because of some of the day-to-day issues that people here live with,
07:30but people in the West are not always comfortable seeing?
07:33But that's part of the opportunity.
07:34That's part of what makes this really interesting to me.
07:37And we're already seeing it, you know, because we launched AD
07:41and Condé Nast Traveler 18 months ago in the region
07:44when those licenses expired earlier than the Vogue and GQ licenses.
07:48And we're already seeing interest from the other Condé Nast Traveler
07:53and AD publications around the world in content from this region.
07:59And I think that's, it's only, you know, the region, you know,
08:02you've lived here many years.
08:03The region is changing and it changes at a rate that far surpasses anywhere else.
08:11You know, you have more established, you know, Europe, U.S.,
08:14there are changes that happen, but not at the rate that happens here.
08:17And I think that's part of the opportunity is to help educate,
08:21you know, our readers everywhere around the world
08:24about the opportunities in this region,
08:25whether it's fashion, architecture, tourism.
08:29Now I saw an interview that you conducted about five years ago
08:33where you said that one of the reasons you took the Condé Nast job
08:35is because you like to solve problems.
08:38So you said now that you think this is an opportunity.
08:41Do you see any problems with it fitting with the brand,
08:45the local brands fitting into the global brand that is Condé Nast?
08:49You know, because we've already operated in the region with licensees,
08:54you know, our licensees we work closely with.
08:57And we review content, we, you know, we review changes in editors
09:04and we have a very close relationship with licensees around the world.
09:08So it's not like we're new to the region
09:10or new to working with content produced in the region.
09:14With all new launches, you have to expect some bumps along the road,
09:19but we have a really strong team here and a very experienced team.
09:23All of our editors have many years of experience
09:27leading publications in the region and in some cases around the world.
09:30And the same for our managing director and our sales teams here.
09:35So it's not like we're starting from scratch.
09:37We have a very good experience team.
09:38One of the issues that I get asked an awful lot about
09:40when I travel back home is censorship.
09:46So I'll spin it a little bit.
09:48Will there be sort of a global oversight editorial board
09:52that looks at what is going on here to say that's not strong enough
09:56or you need to be a little bit more hard hitting with something?
09:59Or is it more of a true partnership?
10:01You know, we have, the way we're organized now with our editorial teams
10:05is each of our global brands has a global editorial director.
10:10And that person, so in case of Vogue, that's Anna Wintour.
10:13That person is responsible for globally all of the content that is produced.
10:18But it is pretty decentralized in that we still have in every market
10:27most of the content that is produced or that is published is locally produced content.
10:33And so we make sure, just like in my role,
10:36I see my role related editorial is choosing who the editors are.
10:40After that, I step back.
10:43It really is up to the editors.
10:44And we feel very much the same way in the local markets.
10:48That doesn't mean they don't get coaching and help.
10:50But there's a lot of responsibility that's given to our local editorial teams.
10:54Yeah, that's something similar to what I do with my team.
10:57You hire good people and then you say, how can I help?
11:00And you get out of the way.
11:02But getting back to your situation, as an undergrad, you studied physics.
11:07I did.
11:08And now you're in media.
11:11How did that journey take place?
11:13And at any point, was the family disappointed, surprised, pleased
11:17with the change of course?
11:19I think their big surprise is that I even went to college and studied physics.
11:23Because before that, my plan, I've been a musician all my life,
11:27was just to follow that route.
11:29And going to college ended up being a last minute decision for me.
11:33And it was a good decision, it turns out.
11:35But I studied physics in college because I actually took my first physics class
11:43when I was in college and just fell in love with it.
11:45And so it changed my major.
11:48And that became my focus.
11:49I worked as a researcher after college and found that I enjoyed studying physics
11:57more than I did being a researcher, especially the stuff I was doing,
12:00defense industry, R&D.
12:03And I worked in an underground lab by myself.
12:05And it was just a bit lonely.
12:07And so I ended up going back to business school.
12:09And then using the technology background I have,
12:12I became an investment banker in Silicon Valley in the mid to late 90s
12:17when the heyday was going on.
12:19And we were taking all these companies public and moved to London to do that.
12:24And then I started starting internet companies in the late,
12:28I think 1999 was the first one.
12:30And I've mostly been an entrepreneur.
12:33So Condé Nast and the company before I ran, Pandora,
12:36were the first companies that I ran that I didn't start.
12:39But there are three other companies that I had started.
12:42Prior to that.
12:43No pushback from the family, from your wife?
12:46Everybody was cool with?
12:47You know, my wife and I, we met in university in senior year.
12:53And we got married right after graduation.
12:55So we got married very young and started having kids.
12:57And she's been a champ the whole way.
12:59Because we've moved and lived all around the world.
13:02And she's seen me take new jobs.
13:04And she's been nothing but encouraging.
13:06That's fantastic.
13:07So let me ask you another question about the work environment.
13:14How you sort of manage your team.
13:16Allure was a magazine that was incredibly successful for you guys.
13:19And then you decided to go from print to digital only.
13:23Which I think is a conversation a lot of publishers are having.
13:27I saw recently that, I think it was last year or within the past 18 months,
13:32the New York Times finally had more digital subscribers than paper subscribers.
13:36So how does the conversation,
13:40how is it initiated to take what is a successful
13:44and a big name print title to digital only?
13:47Yeah.
13:47I mean, there have been a number of titles in our portfolio
13:50that have gone through that transition.
13:52And in most cases, they end up more successful as a digital title.
13:57But it's specific to the title.
13:59So there are brands that I think because of what they cover,
14:03the nature of what they do, are best represented as digital brands.
14:08And there are other brands where I imagine print
14:11being a core of what they do for a very, very long time.
14:15That doesn't mean that print will be the majority of the revenue
14:18or the engagement with audiences.
14:21But if you take Vogue again, our biggest brand,
14:24the print cover of Vogue is a cornerstone of what Vogue does.
14:30It's a cultural moment.
14:32It creates, and when we shoot a cover, we create all this other content too,
14:37whether it's a podcast, video.
14:39Behind the scenes stuff.
14:41Yes. Yeah.
14:42And it becomes a part of an ecosystem.
14:46And that's where we've seen, like I mentioned, Vogue,
14:50our biggest brand has grown every year in the last four years.
14:55But that's come from creating new innovation
14:58around a core strategy that we have,
15:00which is our brands sit at the center of what we do.
15:03And we create an ecosystem of opportunities to engage
15:07with audiences or advertisers around that brand.
15:09And Vogue, I think, has been the best example of that.
15:12So whether it's events like Vogue World,
15:15which we created three years ago,
15:16which has become a huge event for us,
15:19which ties into the cover of Vogue,
15:23ties into what we do in e-commerce, video.
15:27It really feeds an ecosystem.
15:28So I think for a brand like Vogue,
15:32print is going to remain a really core element to it.
15:35Not because it's the biggest or it gets the most engagement,
15:40but because it does still sit as the cornerstone of what we do.
15:43When you talk about the ecosystem,
15:45one of the challenges that I know as an editor I face,
15:49back in the day, we used to have social media.
15:51And the challenge was, how do we get them to go from Facebook to our website?
15:55Now, I sort of see that people who follow us on TikTok,
15:59that's how they get their content from us.
16:01Some maybe only come to the website,
16:04ideally three or four times a day.
16:06And there are probably some who are still,
16:09well, of course, I know that there are some
16:11who still want their news in the paper format.
16:14Do you see all of those different followers
16:17for all the Condé Nast brands as separate readers?
16:23Or is it a collection,
16:26and then they are consuming content across everything?
16:29You know, the audiences on the platforms can be different.
16:32You know, our audiences on TikTok are,
16:36you know, there's certainly some overlap,
16:38but we'll be somewhat different than the audiences on Facebook
16:41or then who read the print magazine.
16:44But we start with a core belief,
16:48which is that our brands need to be
16:51where our audiences expect our brands to be.
16:54And so TikTok is a good example.
16:55When TikTok launched in the US,
16:58Vogue was not yet producing content,
17:00but there was a ton of Vogue content on TikTok
17:03because audiences were creating it themselves and posting it.
17:06And so they were telling us, we want Vogue to be on TikTok.
17:09And we launched Vogue and became very successful.
17:12Now, we didn't really have an idea about how
17:16or whether we'd be able to make money.
17:18Off of that, but, you know, the history of the internet is
17:22you get engagement first and then monetization follows.
17:26And we felt it was really important
17:29to be where our audiences expected us to be
17:32and to build that engagement.
17:33And we'll worry about the business side opportunities later.
17:36It's funny, I agree with you.
17:37And I think that that's,
17:39there's almost an approach where it's like,
17:41we have to do it.
17:42And then we have to figure out almost reverse engineering.
17:44How are we going to generate an income
17:46or how are we going to generate profits from it?
17:48Because back in the day, you know,
17:51the only form of interaction that really took place
17:54in my industry, newspapers and readers
17:56would have been letters to the editor.
18:00Now, of course, I kind of feel like
18:02we have to listen to what they want
18:04and then follow their trends.
18:06So the same for us, for TikTok
18:09and all the other social media platforms,
18:11for us in this part of the world,
18:12WhatsApp channel is big.
18:14And so we saw that that was an opportunity.
18:17So we followed what the trend is,
18:20what our consumers and our readers are doing.
18:22And that way, if we were able to generate content
18:25that was appropriate for it,
18:27it would turn out to be successful.
18:29We still haven't quite cracked that nut
18:31about how we can generate revenue.
18:33And that, I think, has to be a big challenge
18:35for you as well.
18:35Yes, but you know, like in TikTok,
18:38as I mentioned, you know,
18:40we launched before we had any idea
18:41of whether there'd be any way
18:44to drive revenue from it.
18:46But we worked with them
18:48and we were a launch partner with them
18:50with something called Pulse Premiere,
18:52which was really an ad product
18:55that we were, we were able,
18:56our teams were able to sell ads
18:57around our content.
18:59And they launched with a few other partners,
19:01but we immediately sold out
19:03of all the ad inventory.
19:04And so, you know, we were fortunate
19:06that we were able to work with them
19:08to create an opportunity like that.
19:10But it's, you know, you have a choice.
19:14Do you listen to your audiences
19:18or do you follow what you think
19:20is best for your business?
19:21And I think a lot of companies
19:23make a mistake of saying,
19:26this is the activity
19:27that's best for our business.
19:29If we want our audiences to do X, Y, Z,
19:32and if they do that,
19:33we're going to have a successful business.
19:35And the problem with that is
19:36you're starting at the wrong starting point.
19:39You have to start at
19:40what does our audience want?
19:41What is our audience telling us?
19:43And then figure out how to build
19:45a business model around it.
19:47Now, the problem with that is
19:49the business models
19:50that you may be able to build around it
19:52may not be as good
19:53as the business model is replacing.
19:55If you look at the music industry,
19:56that's a great example.
19:58CDs, CD sales peaked in 1999.
20:02Then people started downloading music.
20:04The music industry said,
20:05well, we don't like that behavior.
20:07We're going to stop them.
20:08We're going to get them to stop downloading
20:10and buy CDs again
20:11because that's what's good for our business.
20:13So in the US,
20:15there were these lawsuits against teenagers
20:17and they tried to get the ISPs to block it all.
20:20And the industry almost went bankrupt doing this
20:22until finally they started to embrace digital.
20:25So here we are, what, 26 years later almost.
20:29The recorded music industry
20:30is still not quite as big as it was in 1999,
20:33but it's growing and it's healthy.
20:36The new business model of streaming
20:38is not as good as the business model of selling CDs,
20:41but it's the one that's available to you.
20:43And so in the music industry,
20:45I think learned a lesson
20:47by not listening to audiences
20:49and trying to change behavior
20:51to what fit their business model,
20:52as opposed to saying,
20:53okay, that's the behavior.
20:55That's what's going to happen.
20:56How do I create a business model around that?
20:58I think it's also a good leadership practice,
21:00which is to be a little bit more humble
21:03and to maybe listen to outside voices
21:06instead of saying,
21:07this is what I want to do
21:09and this is how I'm going to do it.
21:10I think people have to be willing
21:12to listen to the people around them,
21:15as well as much younger people
21:17who will come up with great ideas.
21:19But you're talking about technology
21:22and it's obviously with DeepSeek
21:24being a big issue right now.
21:26You, Condé Nast,
21:28signed a deal with OpenAI.
21:30How did that come about
21:32and how is that going?
21:33Yeah, well, when OpenAI
21:36first launched ChatGPT,
21:40it was pretty revolutionary.
21:42I mean, caught the whole world by surprise.
21:45And we immediately recognized
21:49that it was going to create opportunities,
21:53but also threats.
21:55The way these models learn
21:57is by ingesting content
21:59that is produced by others.
22:00And we felt very strongly
22:02that we needed to protect
22:06our intellectual property rights,
22:08but also that if we use AI,
22:11we need to do it in a way
22:12that we're not infringing
22:13other people's intellectual property rights.
22:15So within a few months,
22:16we published AI guidelines globally
22:19for our editorial teams
22:21that said this is the way we'll use AI,
22:23but even more importantly,
22:24this is the way we will not use it
22:25because we wanted to be principled about this.
22:30Today, we have over 60 projects
22:32that are either launched already
22:35or in development that use generative AI.
22:40As you mentioned,
22:40we came to an agreement with OpenAI
22:43and we're very pleased with that
22:45because we do believe that these AI companies
22:50should be licensing the content
22:52from the publishers and others
22:54where they're using this content
22:56to train and also to retrieve information from.
22:58And those license deals,
23:00there's a financial side to it,
23:01but equally importantly,
23:03there is the conditions that are put around
23:06how that content could be used.
23:08And so just like in other businesses I run,
23:11whether it's in film and television or music,
23:15the license deals have an economic angle to it,
23:17but they also have,
23:18here are the rights that are granted,
23:20which say you can do this,
23:21but you can't do these things over here.
23:23And that will give publishers control
23:26over how their content is used and distributed.
23:28So you've also talked in the past
23:30about how Google and Facebook
23:32take too much money from us as publishers.
23:34You still feel that way?
23:36Look, if you look at what has happened
23:38to digital advertising,
23:41almost all of the growth goes
23:43to a small number of big tech platforms,
23:47whereas almost all of the content that is produced
23:49is produced not by big tech platforms.
23:52So we're always interested in making sure
23:55that we get a balance right
23:56where we can develop healthy business models
24:00around producing digital content
24:02and distributing digital content and advertising.
24:05So yes.
24:05A long-winded way to say yes, I agree.
24:10And I also, workplace values mean a lot at Condé Nast.
24:15You've got a fair bit of talk about it on your website.
24:21It's 2025.
24:22I think we know what's happened this month.
24:24Do you feel that there'll be any backlash
24:30to have to shift the way that you hire
24:33and the sorts of stories
24:35that you want your team to cover?
24:37You know, I tell our teams that
24:40if you're a company and you have values,
24:43the way you know that they're values
24:47is by how you adhere to them
24:50when the winds are going against you.
24:53Because if you just throw them out the window and say,
24:54hey, here are our new values,
24:56they were never values, they were conveniences.
24:59And so for us, they're core values of the company.
25:03Now, lots of companies you see making changes now.
25:07They're dumping their DEI programs.
25:10They're erasing things from their website.
25:12We're doubling down on it.
25:13We just hired a brand new head of DEI this past month.
25:17And we report on those.
25:20We have goals.
25:20We do an annual report.
25:22That's gonna continue.
25:23It's a core value of who we are.
25:25And other companies will make their own decisions.
25:28But we know very firmly where we stand on these issues.
25:31So this, I'm not sure if you know this or not,
25:33but this is what would be the 30th anniversary
25:37since the launch of George.
25:40And George, I think, looked spectacular
25:43back when JFK Jr. was running it.
25:49Considering the climate today,
25:50and because of the way it looked
25:52in that first photograph with Cindy Crawford,
25:55shot by Herberts, I think,
25:57do you think that a title like George
26:00would do well in 2025?
26:02Hmm.
26:04You know, every title has to ideally have core values
26:12that really underpin its mission,
26:17but has to change.
26:18If you look at the New Yorker,
26:20the New Yorker is now celebrating
26:23its 100th anniversary, February this year.
26:27The New Yorker, we went back and looked
26:29at the original charter for the New Yorker.
26:32It aligns very, very directly with what we do today.
26:36But I'm sure that if you looked at the original team
26:41that launched the New Yorker,
26:42if they looked at the New Yorker today,
26:44it would be almost unrecognizable
26:45because things have moved on.
26:49Obviously, how we produce content,
26:51how we distribute content has changed.
26:53So when you're in an industry like ours
26:56that there's so much changing,
26:57technology, obviously a big factor,
26:59but even audiences,
27:02the certain mistake you can make is to not change.
27:05If you don't change, you are definitely making a mistake.
27:09100% certain.
27:11So you have to be willing to change.
27:13Now, when you make changes,
27:15some of them work, some of them don't.
27:17You make mistakes.
27:18But the good thing about it is you realize
27:20that you get feedback quickly and you can adjust.
27:22If you make no changes, you get no feedback
27:24other than you see a slow decline of your business
27:27that ultimately leaves you irrelevant or out of business.
27:32So that's a mistake we don't intend to make.
27:35Do you, because you look after part of the,
27:39Conde Nast has some of the biggest global fashion brands.
27:44Do you feel any pressure to dress a certain way
27:47when you go into the office?
27:49Ah, yeah, good question.
27:52You know, we have a pretty casual office.
27:58It does not feel like,
28:00we have a lot of young people that work at Conde Nast.
28:03So I'd say it feels pretty informal in the office to me.
28:07And I feel the same way about how I dress there.
28:09But you don't have to worry,
28:11in your mind when you're getting up
28:12and you're looking in the closet,
28:13you're not thinking, okay,
28:14this is my style or my look for today.
28:16I think about what I'm doing that day.
28:19Do I have outside meetings?
28:20Do I, am I meeting with a politician
28:24or a government official or whatever?
28:26And I'll dress appropriately for that occasion.
28:28If not, I probably gonna,
28:30you'll probably see me in jeans and a jacket,
28:32but it'll be more casual.
28:34Earlier, you had talked about playing music all your life.
28:38What instrument do you play?
28:39I play guitar.
28:40Okay, so first concert you ever went to?
28:45It was Van Halen.
28:47And that was one of the big,
28:50really inspirations for me in playing guitar.
28:53I'd already started learning to play guitar, but-
28:55This would have been what year?
28:56Oh my gosh, this would have been in the late seventies.
29:00But seeing Eddie Van Halen on stage was a huge inspiration.
29:05And what was the venue?
29:06It would have been in Baltimore
29:09where I was in high school.
29:12Yeah, I can't remember what venue it was.
29:14And the last concert you went to
29:16or the most recent one?
29:17Oh, most recent.
29:19What was the most recent concert?
29:20Good question.
29:21I think it was probably Sophie Tucker,
29:25which is a duo,
29:28a team that Sophie and Tucker came out of Brown University
29:33and sort of electronic music duo.
29:36My first one, my parents took me,
29:37Maple Leaf Gardens, 1976, Neil Diamond.
29:41Neil Diamond.
29:43So I'm not sure if that,
29:44maybe in a few years, that'll be a little bit cooler.
29:46But the first one that I went to on my own would have been,
29:50I think it was 82 and it was The Who.
29:52Oh, very fun.
29:53But it was the first tour after Keith had died.
29:55Yeah.
29:56Okay, last question.
29:59If you were on a desert island,
30:00three albums, not songs, three albums you would take?
30:03Oh, well, I guess it would have to be the first Van Halen album
30:07because that was-
30:07How can you not?
30:08Yeah, that was so inspirational to me.
30:12You mentioned, you know, I think
30:17Neil Diamond, Hot August Nights is a great compilation of his music.
30:21I learned to play guitar to Neil Diamond songs.
30:24Really?
30:24Yes, yes, that's how I learned.
30:26Which was, was there one in particular?
30:28Oh God, I think I probably,
30:30because, you know, I had a brother-in-law who was a musician who taught me
30:34and he played a lot of Neil Diamond songs.
30:36So that's how I first learned.
30:38So I probably over the years learned 25,
30:41learned 25 Neil Diamond songs.
30:43And they do stand the test of time.
30:45Yeah.
30:45They are good.
30:46Yeah.
30:46All right, and the third album?
30:47Dark Side of the Moon.
30:48Yeah, of course.
30:50Yeah, I agree 100% with that.
30:52Thank you so much for joining us today.
30:53I really appreciate it.
30:54It's a pleasure, Michael.
30:55Thanks, Roger.
Comments