- il y a 12 heures
The Future is Streamed
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00:00Welcome Jeremy, Kevin, and Tom. Unfortunately Rob couldn't make it this time. We were going to address the growth of
00:09audio with him, but thanks for being here today in person with all of us.
00:15And we're going to discuss streaming. We used to say the future is streamed, and I mean here we are
00:24now. Consumers have such a vast, nearly infinite number of platforms and experiences filled with information and the underlying...
00:46Well, I think you guys can do a much better job explaining which situation we are at now. But the
00:52main question is, with the global disruption that we have had most recently, where do you see new consumer behavior
01:04actually sticking and staying? And which consumer behavior is actually going and why? If you would like to start.
01:14I'm going to let... I think that's a great question for Tom, actually.
01:18Great. Thank you. Great to be here with everyone.
01:22Yes, so it's a great question. We certainly saw a lot of acceleration in the pandemic to streaming when people
01:30were at home and quarantined.
01:32And that really brought the future forward by a few years.
01:37And we also saw a lot of the embracing of a lot of new models.
01:41So I think that as we get out of the pandemic and move forward, there's going to be a lot
01:46of things that continue to stick, frankly.
01:49People are out and about more, but people want to be entertained.
01:53They want to have great content.
01:56They're going to be drawn to really good content and platforms that have that great content.
02:02Another thing I'd say is, you know, given the economic disruption that we're currently on the precipice of, I think
02:09people are going to really be gravitating towards value as well.
02:13And so you're seeing the rise, not just of more affordable ad-supported paid streaming tiers, but really free ad
02:20-supported streaming services,
02:22which allow people to have a lot more content and value for their dollar or euro.
02:28Anything else to add?
02:30I mean, I might add to that. I think I agree with everything you've said.
02:33You know, we call it streaming. Streaming is simply the technology that allows video to go from a server to
02:40your device.
02:40But really, what's happening is people want and now can have anytime, anyplace, anywhere, any device access to content.
02:50That's the thing that will never reverse.
02:52So once consumers have had that freedom and the frictions of accessing content have been removed, why would anyone ever
02:59go back?
02:59We used to have to deliver that content through linear television networks on a time basis because that was the
03:05technological constraint that was in place.
03:07It's no longer the case. You know, for sports that are live, obviously, you still want to have a timed
03:13presence to watch sports.
03:15News happens live. But for entertainment content, there's really no reason to ever go backwards from streaming.
03:21So it's here to stay. It serves consumers the best.
03:26You know, it has engendered this massive lift in content creation, which I think is serving everyone very well,
03:32including, you know, the Hollywood community that we live in.
03:35And I think it's just a boon for creators and for consumers and for business.
03:40So it's fabulous.
03:43It looks like you agree.
03:45No, I certainly do agree.
03:46And I think we're going to continue to see just the explosion in the consumption of content because we've got
03:54people, you know, not just in, you know, the countries that are currently consuming content at scale,
03:59but we've got, you know, the emerging world, which is, you know, consuming more and more content.
04:04And I think we're going to see continued growth in all those areas.
04:07And at the other end, those events like sports, live music, certain things like that, that have to be consumed
04:19either in a place or at the moment that they're happening,
04:23I think the value of those will continue to grow.
04:25I think people still love to have unique live experiences.
04:28And I think the value of those experiences will continue to grow as well.
04:31Exactly.
04:33And what I was mentioning earlier was that we're also going to be discussed the underlying commerce capability of all
04:43these platforms.
04:45So I think for, as you mentioned just now, what we wanted to continue with is actually this fragmentation of
04:53all the different types of content
04:57and how you have fitness related and gaming, where would you see, where would you see perhaps this growing in
05:09terms of more mergers and acquisitions, new technologies?
05:15I imagine there'll still be some more mergers and acquisitions, but I think really what happens,
05:20and I've seen this over a few, you know, technology cycles, is everything shifts to whatever the new technology is.
05:27And the media and people believe this is the only thing that's going to be, that this will win and
05:34everything else will go away.
05:36And then what tends to happen, in my experience, is it regresses to somewhat of a mean.
05:42So I think what we'll see is I don't think broadcast television stops.
05:45I don't think cable television stops.
05:47I don't think theatrical movies stop.
05:50I think that audiences find different ways to consume the content where they want.
05:55And I also think that the people who've been on the sidelines when it comes to premium television, particularly, have
06:01been advertisers.
06:02And I think that that's a lot of revenue that has not been deployed against premium content.
06:10And I think what we'll see now is the advertisers will come back into the premium content ecosystem,
06:15and that will allow all of these streamers to continue to grow and be able to produce great content.
06:23In terms of fragmentation, anything to add?
06:27Well, part of your question was about commerce and will there be commerce opportunities.
06:31And I founded a company called Candle Media with Blackstone as our backer of private equity firm.
06:36And our thesis is that if you make great traditional content, TV and film content,
06:42and have the right brands and the right creative approach, and you couple that with social media,
06:46so you can establish a one-to-one relationship between the brands and the influencers and the creators and their
06:52audiences,
06:53that can give rise to very substantial commerce opportunities.
06:56I briefly ran TikTok a couple years ago, and I can tell you that on these social platforms,
07:02that bond and that dynamic between creator and brand and followers really, when authentically done,
07:13can have a very substantial commerce opportunity.
07:16And I think a modern approach to media would include all three, and it creates a bit of a flywheel,
07:21where if you can monetize your content better because it's on social media and you have commerce,
07:26that allows you to invest more in content and make better content, and the flywheel starts turning.
07:31So I love the commerce angle to this.
07:34I guess the only thing I'd say about fragmentation is it's true that there's a lot of services across a
07:40lot of different types of content,
07:42like you said, from gaming to video streaming to audio, you name it.
07:47But I think one thing that remains true is even though there tends to be fragmentation,
07:53and ultimately the winners in any one of those categories tends to be a broad-based aggregator
07:58that has the best possible user experience, good value, great content.
08:03And so while there is always fragmentation while new models arise,
08:07I do think that ultimately you see that coalesce around a few players
08:12that have tended to get the global scale and aggregation power
08:15that really provide the best value to consumers.
08:19And Kevin, actually, you briefly mentioned TikTok.
08:22We wanted to talk a little bit about the influence of new generations
08:25and how they feel more empowered, how they like to participate in experiences
08:33and also to do things with purpose.
08:37Do you have any point?
08:39Well, I mean, a couple things.
08:41If you'd have asked Mark Zuckerberg 10 years ago,
08:45is Instagram and Facebook safe from competition,
08:48he'd probably say, hey, you know, we're doing pretty well.
08:50We're moving up to 2 billion users.
08:53How does some new technology, new platform make a successful incursion into my space?
09:00And you just never know when something new, different, and incredibly appealing pops up.
09:05And so, you know, now TikTok was an amazing trajectory of growth
09:09and is now challenging, you know, the incumbents in a very big way,
09:13including YouTube and everyone else.
09:14And the reason is it's a very creative platform.
09:19They have tools that make it very easy for creators to make videos.
09:23And not just post-picture, which has always been pretty easy, or text,
09:26but making high-quality, decent-quality videos.
09:29It doesn't have to be the highest-quality videos ever.
09:31But to edit it, to sync with music, to do things that were previously very, very difficult to do,
09:37that was one of the things it did.
09:39And the other thing that TikTok did so well, better than any other platform,
09:43was created artificial intelligence that was able to take very, very nuanced signals
09:48of usage patterns of the app
09:50and be able to understand every single user's unique preference
09:54and deliver videos that they love and the sequence and the timing at the right exact moment,
09:59very difficult to achieve technically,
10:01and it draws you in very substantially to the app.
10:04So they made some leaps, and now, of course,
10:05I don't know what the next TikTok is going to be,
10:07who's going to come over the top from TikTok,
10:09but it's a successive generations of technology,
10:12which figure out an unmet need,
10:14and then you can have a really big success
10:17and get to the global scale, Tom, that you were mentioning,
10:19which I agree is enormously powerful.
10:23Anything to add, Jeremy, for the new generations, the way they...
10:27Well, you couldn't have a panel without mentioning the metaverse,
10:30so I'm sure that...
10:31Okay, I was going to mention it, but...
10:33As we think about new generations,
10:35we certainly have to think about, you know,
10:37what is the application for, you know,
10:40our current business with the metaverse?
10:42How are we all going to...
10:43How are our brands going to live?
10:45How are new content brands going to live in the metaverse?
10:47And how will consumers engage with them in the metaverse?
10:50And that's, you know, ahead of us, if not here already,
10:55and certainly something that we're all paying attention to.
10:58And AI influencers and...
11:00Excuse me?
11:01AI influencers, synthetic humans.
11:03Exactly.
11:04Bots and all of it.
11:07It's, you know, it's here.
11:08It's happening.
11:10Deep fakes.
11:10There's so many different things going on,
11:12and what's going to actually arrive and be a real business
11:16is the part of it that we still haven't quite established.
11:19And how can then brands...
11:22Brands and creators work better together?
11:27What kind of new styles have you seen beyond the 30-second ad?
11:32I think that's a really important question,
11:35because now that we've all had the incredible experience
11:38of streaming without commercials, you know,
11:41how can we sit there?
11:42I mean, it's...
11:43You know, when you're watching a basketball game,
11:45it's almost intolerable to sit through a, you know,
11:4890 seconds of a commercial now.
11:50So how do brands come back into premium content
11:54where...
11:54With a different kind of ad load?
11:56So right now, or traditionally on broadcast,
11:58it was 12 minutes of ads for an hour-long show.
12:01And I think that's going to be very, very difficult
12:03for a consumer to have the patience to do.
12:07So I think what you have to do
12:08is you have to redefine what the ad load looks like,
12:10and I think you have to make the advertising
12:13much more relevant to the consumer.
12:16Tom, you want to add to...
12:19Yeah, I mean, I agree with much of what Jeremy said,
12:22but I do think that we're not just entering an era,
12:25but we've been in an era where consumers want...
12:28Consumers are creating their own bundles, right?
12:30And so no longer are they relying on the pay TV operator
12:34to give them one monolithic bundle.
12:36They're creating their own bundles via streaming
12:38through a number of apps,
12:40and they're doing that with paid apps and free apps,
12:43but there's a limit to the number of apps or services
12:46that consumers will pay for,
12:48and advertising is becoming a very clear way
12:53to help subsidize the cost of the consumer
12:55and give great flexibility to the consumer
12:58at a time, again, like I said,
13:00when budgets are going to be looked at very closely.
13:03And so I think, yes, you need to get a great ad experience,
13:08and there's still work to be done in that area of streaming.
13:12But Pluto TV, which is a company I founded
13:15and launched seven years ago,
13:17got to a billion dollars in annual revenue
13:19with 15 and 30-second ad breaks,
13:22the type that Jeremy was describing.
13:25And so, yes, we try to have a lower ad load,
13:28but at the same time,
13:29consumers get tons of free content
13:32in exchange for watching some advertising.
13:35And, yes, when you compare it to an ad-free experience,
13:39it's very different,
13:40but consumers are speaking in numbers at this point.
13:43We've got 68 million users on Pluto TV
13:46who are engaging very significantly with free content.
13:53And, by the way, on that ad-supported thing,
13:55when I was at Disney,
13:56one of the things that reported to me,
13:57one of the services was Hulu,
13:59and Hulu started off life as pure ad-supported,
14:02then it transformed itself into pure subscription-supported,
14:06and then we offered a mix between the two.
14:08And I'm not sure what the actual breakdown is
14:11at this point on Hulu,
14:12but it turns out now that the majority
14:14are going for the ad-supported when given the choice.
14:16It's $5 less per month.
14:19It's a U.S. streaming service.
14:20It's $5 less per month if you want to take no ads.
14:24If you want to take ads, excuse me,
14:25$5 more with no ads.
14:27And the majority of people are taking the ads
14:29and saving the money.
14:30It actually provides a better revenue performance
14:34with ads for Disney.
14:36So they make more money
14:37when people take the ad-supported version.
14:40The ads are a little lighter than on broadcast.
14:42It's probably a third of the ad load
14:44that broadcast television has.
14:47The ads are more relevant,
14:48and the frequency has come down quite a bit
14:50so that people feel like they're not being tortured
14:53by the advertisements.
14:54And it provides a new place
15:00for brands to put their high-quality advertisements.
15:03They have a very premium video environment.
15:07It's targetable.
15:08It's digital.
15:09It's dynamically inserted.
15:10It has all the elements that advertisers want.
15:12It can be programmatically purchased
15:14through an interface versus a sales force.
15:17And I think at this point,
15:19again, I don't know for sure
15:20because it's not disclosed,
15:21and I haven't been at Disney for a couple years,
15:23but I think it's the biggest single ad platform
15:25that they have,
15:25including against ABC,
15:27the broadcast television,
15:28and ESPN,
15:29and the sports service.
15:30I think that Hulu is now
15:31the largest advertising-supported platform
15:34at the Walt Disney Company,
15:35and there's a reason for that.
15:36Advertisers love it.
15:38Consumers are choosing it,
15:39and it's growing very rapidly.
15:41And I'd just add, too,
15:43I mean,
15:43I agree with everything that Kevin just said,
15:46and we're investing very heavily
15:48in making the advertising experiences better
15:51for not just Pluto,
15:52where we've invested
15:53in some very significant technology,
15:54but also Paramount+,
15:56where we have an ad-supported tier,
15:58much like Hulu in the U.S.,
16:00where you, instead of $9.99,
16:01you pay $4.99,
16:03you get some advertising,
16:04but it's a much lower ad load
16:06with addressable, relevant ads
16:08for the advertiser.
16:09But it is, yeah,
16:12it's an interesting area right now
16:15because lots of other streamers
16:17are starting to embrace advertising
16:18as a way to subsidize the cost for consumers.
16:23And I think we're going to see
16:24a lot of development in this space
16:25over the next couple of years.
16:27So then you do think,
16:29it's another of the questions
16:30that we had already,
16:31so you do think that
16:34truly addressable content is possible
16:36and it's scalable?
16:39Yes.
16:40Yes.
16:40Perfect.
16:41Anything to add?
16:42I'll agree with these guys.
16:43I agree.
16:45So, Kevin,
16:46in terms of where you are,
16:48with Candle at the moment
16:50and what do you feel then
16:52the advantage is
16:53to have something independent
16:55that is not,
16:57let's say,
16:58vertical driven?
17:01What's the advantage?
17:02When I left TikTok,
17:03I was,
17:03and I left Disney in June of 2020
17:06and then TikTok a few months after that,
17:09I was thinking,
17:10what is the unmet need
17:12or where's the opportunity
17:13in entertainment and commerce?
17:15And I described that flywheel earlier.
17:16but we also,
17:17just to talk about independent content
17:19and how important it is,
17:20when I was at Disney
17:21and I launched Disney Plus,
17:23Bob Iger and I
17:24sort of re-architected
17:25the entire company
17:26so that every piece
17:27of creative output
17:28of any studio
17:29and any brand within Disney
17:31ended up in Disney Plus
17:32or ended up in Hulu,
17:34that's the general entertainment service,
17:36or ended up on ESPN Plus.
17:38So all of our streaming services
17:39captured all of the output
17:41of the Walt Disney Company
17:42and so it's completely
17:43vertically integrated.
17:44That means that if you were Netflix,
17:46you can no longer license
17:47Disney product
17:48and they licensed it for many years.
17:50If you're Amazon,
17:51if you're any of the streaming services
17:53or any channels around the world,
17:55Disney product is no longer available.
17:57It works very well, obviously,
17:58and the other Hollywood studios
18:00have followed suit,
18:01so Warner Brothers output
18:03goes to HBO Max
18:04and Universal's go to Peacock.
18:05So if you're a streaming service
18:07either independent
18:08like Amazon or Apple TV Plus
18:10or even for Netflix
18:12or even an owned streaming service
18:14that happens to have studios attached
18:16but you want additional content,
18:17the only place to license that content
18:19is from independent content producers
18:21by and large.
18:22There's exceptions to that,
18:23of course, but by and large.
18:24So being independent,
18:26being able to sell high-quality content
18:29to any streaming service
18:30that wants to buy it,
18:31I felt was a very good place to be
18:33in the face of very rapidly growing demand
18:36for content,
18:37which I don't see that changing at all.
18:39I know Netflix had a negative growth quarter,
18:44but as we just talked about,
18:45streaming is here to stay.
18:46The differentiator between streaming services
18:48is always going to be
18:50the top tier of content that they have
18:51and what we've been able to put together
18:54at Candle addresses that
18:55with Reese Witherspoon's Hello Sunshine
18:57with a company called Moonbug
18:59that has the most powerful kids characters
19:01in the world at this point,
19:02including Cocomelon and others,
19:05including a piece of Will Smith's company,
19:07and we've made several announcements
19:09in the last couple months.
19:10I don't even advertisement for it,
19:12but I think we're well-positioned
19:13for what's happening in entertainment.
19:15Anything to add?
19:17Well, I'll just say,
19:18you know,
19:20UTA is one of the largest talent agencies
19:22in the world,
19:23and we, you know,
19:24really see that,
19:25and we've set up very much
19:26like what Kevin is talking about,
19:28a flywheel for talent,
19:29and the idea for us is
19:30talent wants to be able to create
19:32in multiple mediums,
19:34in different ways.
19:35They all want to tell,
19:36they either want to tell stories
19:37or have their music appear
19:40or be involved
19:41in all kinds of different areas,
19:43so we've built a company
19:44that allows us to service talent
19:46whatever their hopes and dreams are
19:48and help them monetize their fame,
19:51their celebrity,
19:52the fans who love them,
19:54and so that growing demand
19:56for what they do
19:57is certainly serving us.
19:59I think on the other side of the coin,
20:00and this is what will be interesting,
20:02and, you know,
20:03Kevin, when he was at Disney,
20:04would probably disagree with me today.
20:06I don't know how he will feel,
20:08but if you look at the financial pressure
20:11that some of these companies are under,
20:13whether it's Disney
20:14or Warner Brothers Discovery,
20:16and on the other side, Netflix.
20:18So Netflix has this huge treasure trove
20:21of content that's sitting on their server.
20:23Is that really doing them
20:25as much good as they think it is now?
20:27So a show that's been on their server
20:30for five or six years
20:31is no longer,
20:32people aren't subscribing
20:34in order to watch that show,
20:36so is that show,
20:37could they achieve value
20:38by selling that somewhere else?
20:40You think about, you know,
20:41Warner Discovery
20:42who have, you know,
20:43a mountain of death
20:44that they're sitting on,
20:45would Game of Thrones
20:47be a very valuable asset
20:48for them to sell
20:49to a broadcaster
20:51or somewhere else?
20:53So I think we're going to see
20:54a resumption of this cycle
20:56of people selling content
20:58back and forth to each other,
21:00creating new windows
21:01with advertising,
21:02and I think it's going to be
21:03a much more open market
21:05than where things were going
21:07when everybody was so focused
21:09on verticalization.
21:11and Tom, you briefly mentioned it
21:14before about the subscriptions models
21:16versus ad-supported models,
21:20and obviously you pioneered fast
21:22with Pluto.
21:24Where is this going?
21:25We briefly discussed
21:28Netflix adding advertisement.
21:30Is it going towards
21:31a more flexible option?
21:34Yeah, I think the introduction
21:36of ads into
21:39or the embracing
21:40of advertising
21:41by other large streamers
21:43was inevitable
21:45because it provides
21:46the greatest flexibility
21:47and value to the consumer,
21:48and therefore,
21:50consumers can choose, right?
21:51If it's a paid service,
21:53if they,
21:53as we were discussing before,
21:54if they, you know,
21:55want to have no ads,
21:56they can have that.
21:57if they want to subsidize
21:59or have a lower cost
22:01of service,
22:02they can have ads subsidize that.
22:05And then, of course,
22:05there's the free ad-supported
22:07streaming TV space,
22:08which is growing like a weed
22:10and offers, you know,
22:12additional great content
22:13to complement the bundle
22:15of services
22:17that you're already paying for.
22:20Anything to add?
22:22I think that's about right.
22:25Consumers like choice,
22:26and I know Netflix
22:27for a long time
22:28was dead set on one simple,
22:30you know,
22:30one simple package,
22:31no ads,
22:31and I just don't think
22:32that was the right way
22:34to embrace
22:35what consumers really want.
22:36There are many, many consumers,
22:37and I think if given the choice,
22:38if there's a meaningful
22:39difference in price,
22:41I think actually the majority
22:42would choose to have advertising
22:45done the right way.
22:46Look, advertising can be
22:48extremely irksome
22:50if you just see the same ads
22:51over and over,
22:52if it's an ad you're not
22:53interested in,
22:54if you're, you know,
22:55selling ads for hair thinning,
22:58you know, hair products,
22:59you know,
22:59if you're getting bald
23:00to a 15-year-old person,
23:02it's not going to really
23:03work very well.
23:04So you have to,
23:04you have to,
23:05you know,
23:05titrate the ads
23:06in the right way.
23:07But if you do that
23:08and you have relevant ads
23:09and the ad load
23:11isn't overwhelming,
23:12I think it's not
23:12a bad experience,
23:13actually.
23:14Imagine watching
23:14a basketball game
23:15and there are breaks
23:16and there are no ads in it.
23:17What would you even do?
23:18Put a logo up,
23:19an NBA logo up there?
23:20I would rather see that
23:22than the same State Farm ad
23:23over and over and over again.
23:25Well, that's the frequency
23:26problem you had at all.
23:27And the variety problem.
23:29Right.
23:30Okay.
23:31I think now
23:32for the last round,
23:34for all of you,
23:35anything that you
23:36want to add?
23:38We also wanted to know,
23:40you know,
23:40is there one challenge
23:41that you think
23:42the industry is going through
23:43but in the next 12 months
23:45it will be on rails?
23:49In the next 12 months
23:51it will be.
23:51Yeah,
23:52that you think
23:52that actually
23:53is challenging now
23:54but in the next year
23:56we will be on track.
23:57Any challenges
23:58that you feel?
23:59Yeah, I'll start
24:00because we're on
24:01the same topic
24:02and I don't want
24:02to be a broken record
24:03but I think advertising
24:05is going to be a big trend
24:06that needs to improve
24:08in streaming
24:09over the coming years.
24:11If you think about
24:13advertising supported models
24:15on the internet,
24:16right,
24:16there was a time
24:18on the internet
24:18when the ad experience
24:19was really bad
24:20and then with mobile
24:21as well,
24:22streaming happens
24:23primarily through
24:24connected TVs, right?
24:2590% of the consumption
24:27happens on a TV screen
24:28that's connected
24:29to the internet.
24:30It's still relatively
24:31in its infancy
24:33in terms of the ad models
24:34that have been created,
24:35the technology,
24:37the advertisers embracing
24:38of those different services
24:40and models
24:41and so you hear
24:42about a lot of problems.
24:43You hear about viewability,
24:44you hear about repeat ads
24:46like Jeremy mentioned,
24:47you hear about ads
24:50that are not truly addressable
24:51or just a clunky user experience
24:55and I think that those things
24:56are being worked on.
24:57We've been making a lot
24:58of progress on our services
25:00but I think the industry
25:01at large
25:01is now coming together
25:03to really make it ready
25:05for prime time
25:06and given that additional
25:08large streaming services
25:09are also adopting
25:10advertising supported models,
25:12you're going to see
25:13I think an acceleration
25:14of improvement
25:15in the whole space.
25:17I think the biggest challenge
25:20today with all these services
25:21and thousands of pieces
25:23of content
25:24is finding the content
25:25you really want to watch
25:26with some degree
25:27of confidence
25:28that you're not going
25:28to waste 35 minutes
25:30watching something
25:31that you're going to hate
25:31ultimately and then move on.
25:33that's to me
25:33the biggest challenge
25:35that we're facing
25:35as an industry.
25:36It's great to have
25:37a huge amount of content
25:38it's never been better
25:39I would actually say
25:40but finding it
25:42is really, really hard.
25:43So if you couple
25:44the genius of TikTok
25:46which is ultra personalization
25:48it really understands
25:49what you want
25:49with the high quality
25:51long form content
25:53that the streaming services have
25:54that combination
25:55that will happen
25:56where you have
25:57true personalization
25:58you really understand
25:59people's preferences
26:00better than they do.
26:02I mean if you look
26:03at a TikTok
26:03your For You page
26:04you're like wow
26:05I didn't realize
26:06I like that
26:07but I do like it.
26:08So, but TikTok
26:09understood it.
26:10So if you can really marry
26:11true personalization
26:13with these streaming services
26:15and you get the content
26:16you really love
26:17I think that's the
26:18and I think it will be solved
26:19in the next several years.
26:21What about
26:21so no human curation
26:23whatsoever?
26:24They still...
26:25Well you can put
26:25highlights in there
26:26but in terms of
26:27you know
26:28really understanding
26:29what the next show
26:30that someone should watch
26:31that has
26:32that's hard to do
26:33with human curation
26:33you really need
26:34you need technology
26:35to do that.
26:36I would actually say
26:37that to me
26:38I think the biggest
26:39challenge we have
26:40is becoming
26:41overly dependent
26:42on technology
26:44and data
26:45to drive
26:46decision making.
26:47I know my
26:48my data colleague
26:50is upset
26:51that I'm saying this
26:52but I can see him
26:53going oh god.
26:54I think that
26:55the platforms
26:56because they're so big
26:57and they need to create
26:58so much content
26:59at scale
27:00that they've
27:00started relying
27:01more and more
27:02on data
27:03to tell them
27:04what they should be making
27:05and I'm not saying
27:06that data is
27:07a problem
27:08but data not
27:09answering a question
27:11is a problem.
27:12When data tells you
27:13what to do
27:14as opposed to
27:15data informs
27:16what you're talking about
27:16we were talking about
27:17this yesterday
27:18and I think right now
27:19what's happening
27:20is the data says
27:21make 20 of these
27:22and people go out
27:23oh yeah
27:23make 20 of these
27:24and there's
27:25what happens is
27:26you know
27:26what happens in content
27:27and what happens
27:28in great content
27:29is there is
27:30a magic element
27:31of the human
27:31and I think
27:32to some degree
27:34we've made that
27:35we've put that
27:36further down
27:37on the scale
27:38of what really
27:39is important
27:40when it comes
27:41to creating
27:42great content
27:42and that's what
27:43I'm concerned about.
27:44By the way
27:45if I might just say
27:46I totally agree
27:47with Jeremy.
27:47Yes.
27:48Relying on data
27:49to decide what to make
27:50or to do storytelling
27:52bad idea.
27:53Once they're made
27:54using data
27:54to deliver
27:55the right content
27:56to the right people
27:56good idea.
27:57Right.
27:58And also
27:58because it's retrofreading
27:59how do you move
28:00away from that
28:01how do you discover
28:02new storytelling
28:04or experiment.
28:06So well
28:07this has been
28:08very insightful
28:09thank you
28:09thank you so much
28:11Jeremy
28:11Kevin
28:12Thank you
28:13Thank you
28:14for being here today
28:15and now
28:16for the next session.
28:18Thank you
28:19Thank you.
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