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00:00Previously on Sister Wives One-on-One...
00:07When we were all first married,
00:09personality conflicts between Mary and I, what they were,
00:12it was pretty volatile.
00:16It could have been. It was pretty volatile.
00:18How did Mary fight that was different than Janelle?
00:21She's just willing to scrap.
00:23Willing to scrap.
00:25Just like, and in front of anybody.
00:28Cody and Janelle failed to recognize that possibly
00:33some of the issues that I had in polygamy
00:37could have stemmed from the fact that,
00:39oh, they wanted to get married on my birthday.
00:43They had planned to get married on my birthday.
00:46When you ask me to go back in the past and think about it,
00:49my head starts to spin.
00:52Like there was nothing I could do.
00:54I apologize that you're a dark time. I wasn't there.
00:58The dark time was because you weren't there.
01:01You don't need this from me, but I tell you I forgive you for that.
01:07How was this experience for you?
01:09This apology may not be easy in any way.
01:13But the last time we were sitting here,
01:15you called her your favorite ex-wife.
01:17What happened?
01:18We were under the illusion of betrayal.
01:24What I should have been in the place,
01:26when I felt like she had done something that offended me,
01:28I should have just let it go.
01:30What did she do to offend you?
01:33This is Sister Wives One-on-One.
01:39I'm asking you a simple question. What was that?
01:49I don't know. We still can't.
01:50What was the phone call?
01:51It's just we, like Mary and I, when this unraveled.
01:53You keep going like this.
01:54Was it a phone call?
01:55Any phone call.
01:56Every phone call, you know, it just, it doesn't go well.
01:59Okay.
02:00Was there a particular phone call?
02:02Oh, yeah.
02:04That you're talking about it?
02:05There's one I was like, I like, yeah.
02:09I got, I get really tired of Jen trash-talking me,
02:13because I don't, Jen doesn't know me.
02:15Okay.
02:16This is what Jen knows, is whatever Mary's told her.
02:19So Jen's just trash-talking, trash-talking, trash-talking.
02:23I'm on the phone with Mary once, and I said, I don't think Jen's safe.
02:26She's, I think she's culpable for, partially culpable for our breakup.
02:32Things like this.
02:33And she gets mad, hangs up on me, doesn't talk to me again.
02:36So we're going through law years because every time we talk,
02:40it's an escalation to some kind of problem.
02:44Do you think he was surprised to hear that he was the reason for your dark time?
02:51I don't know if he really grasped that.
02:57I'm not sure if he, I mean, I feel like I was pretty direct,
03:01but I don't know if he really accepted it.
03:05Maybe he did, I don't know.
03:07Yeah, but what was the dark time?
03:08Oh, we all know the dark time.
03:10That was like the, the legal divorce.
03:12And that was the fact that our, our, you know, relationship,
03:16we didn't have much of a relationship.
03:18That was, you know, the spiral into the, you know, the catfish episode.
03:23You know what I mean?
03:24Like it was just all of that.
03:25And it was like a couple year process, you know,
03:29and like just trying to come out of that because like you get in this dark space
03:34and it's really hard to come out of, you know.
03:41I, I'm sorry that she had a dark time in Vegas.
03:44I can't be told that I'm the reason because I, I completely disagree with that.
03:50But I will apologize for not being there for you when you were going through your dark time.
03:55There was a year of time there where I was struggling in my relationship with Mary.
04:02Okay.
04:03I was going to Robin while she was pregnant with our, our youngest, trying to get some consolation.
04:08And Robin said, I, I don't have the energy to give you.
04:11I'm creating this child inside of me.
04:13But Robin was the witness to my suffering in this relationship with Mary that had finally gotten too dark to reconcile.
04:23And it was, I mean, I had a year there of that experience.
04:28When Mary realized what she was under, this is just my part of the story.
04:33What, what had really happened, Mary had a wake up call.
04:37I think that made her go, oh, I want to stay with this family and work things out.
04:43And I had been given every reason to reconsider it.
04:47And I did.
04:48Did she ever apologize to you for what happened in Vegas?
04:52And if she didn't apologize, is that why you were testing her and testing her and trusting her?
04:57Because you didn't know what else to do.
04:59I believe Mary thinks she's apologized.
05:01I don't remember it.
05:02Okay.
05:03So I, I, I can't say that she didn't.
05:05I won't say that she didn't, but I, I just don't remember it.
05:10And, um.
05:11How do you not remember something like that?
05:13Well, I, I believe that it didn't happen, but I think that Mary said she did apologize.
05:18Did you apologize to Cody for your part in the dark time?
05:22Not in that conversation, no.
05:24That's not what that conversation was for.
05:26That conversation was.
05:27Will you apologize to Cody for your part in the dark time?
05:30Oh, I have. I have.
05:31Yeah, no, we've had a lot of conversations about it.
05:34Um, and whether or not he believed or accepted it, that's, that's on him.
05:39Um, but I, I did.
05:41Yeah.
05:42Mm-hmm.
05:43Mm-hmm.
05:44Um, do you want to talk about Mary's ride or die friend, Jen?
05:47Because she seems to bring out a lot of different sides of Mary.
05:50We want to take a look at this clip, and then we'll get your opinion on what happened.
05:54Can, can Jen exist without trash talking me? That's my question.
05:58I don't know. Let's take a look at the clip.
06:00All right, let's see. See if she's funny without trash talking me.
06:03Jen's definitely my ride or die, 100%.
06:06She and I have been best friends for like 12 years.
06:09Time for you to end the nice girl era.
06:11Like, it's not benefiting you. It's only benefiting him.
06:15Yeah, it is.
06:16So then why are you doing it?
06:18Because I don't want to be a bitch.
06:20I just feel like it's important for you to have bitch lessons so that you can say the things that sometimes maybe you think,
06:29but then you're like, oh, that shouldn't come out of my mouth.
06:32And it should. It should come out of your mouth.
06:34Repeat after me.
06:35You do not control me.
06:38You do not control me.
06:40Less smile.
06:41Oh, you don't control me.
06:43Oh, I like that.
06:44That was actually really bitchy.
06:45Bitch.
06:46Comb your hair.
06:48Comb your hair, Cody.
06:51That one felt like it came deep from your soul.
06:54I'm very proud of you.
06:56So what are you thinking?
06:57Well, Mary's always had her voice.
07:02She's always done what she wanted.
07:05She's always pushed, like tried to push me around when we were together.
07:12So I don't know why she's, Jen's like, you got to get your voice back.
07:16Well, did she need bitch lessons then if she was already had her voice?
07:20Well, no.
07:21I mean, having your voice does not make you a B word.
07:26Okay.
07:27Okay.
07:28You could say it.
07:30Yeah.
07:31Like Mary always had her voice.
07:34Jen acting like Mary doesn't have a voice or something like that.
07:37Mary's never been shut downable.
07:39It's like, I don't know what she's talking about.
07:41Cody actually said that you've always had your voice.
07:46So did she really need to have bitch lessons?
07:50Because in the relationship, he said you've always spoken your mind.
07:54I think that there was a time definitely that I spoke my mind.
07:59And then I realized that that was not the best way to go.
08:05And so I swung completely over to the other side.
08:10I wasn't in an emotionally safe place either in my relationships or even with myself to do that.
08:19And so I felt like there was a long time that I didn't.
08:22When was that part of you that completely shut down?
08:25When was that time?
08:26I would say that was in the Vegas years.
08:29So that was during your dark time?
08:31Yeah.
08:32Prior to that as well though.
08:33Okay.
08:34Yeah.
08:35So you just felt like you didn't value yourself or you felt like you didn't value your opinion?
08:38I thought the best way to handle it would be to not rock the boat.
08:43Don't say anything.
08:44Don't put myself out there.
08:46And just do what I was supposed to do.
08:49And I think our relationship is so good because of this.
08:53It doesn't matter what my feelings are.
08:55It doesn't matter what I say and it doesn't matter what I think.
08:59We're still friends.
09:00We're still friends.
09:01We're still friends and I don't get punished for having a thought.
09:04When you say punished for having a thought, were you punished prior for having a thought and having an opinion?
09:09It felt that way.
09:10Yeah.
09:11Punished like.
09:12Excluded.
09:13Yeah.
09:14Either kicked out of the club, emotionally like rejected.
09:19There was a lot of, a lot of different situations that in my opinion, I was not accepted into.
09:28Why do you think Cody doesn't like Jen?
09:31Um, I think that Jen speaks her mind and she doesn't let anybody control and manipulate her.
09:38I don't think he likes someone who's so strong and so strong willed and so outspoken with their opinion.
09:45He needs a yes person.
09:47A yes, yes, yes.
09:48You're right.
09:49Let me bow down a little bit and then kiss your feet.
09:51I think that would not be Jen or that kind of a.
09:54So I, I am very much an outspoken person.
09:59Okay.
10:00And I think Cody forgets how much time we actually spend together.
10:04So there's times where conversations have been had or he'll text or he'll call or something happens.
10:11And I'm literally there.
10:12I'm around.
10:13Right.
10:14And so the true Cody then shines through.
10:17And there's times where he said and done things that were really not okay.
10:22There's like this undertone of, well, this is my expectation.
10:27Therefore, this is what's going to happen.
10:30And if you don't agree with it, then like, there's like this disdain.
10:37Yeah, I don't trust Jen, but it doesn't matter because Mary and I are no longer together.
10:43And if Mary feels like Jen's got her back, then that's great.
10:48Jen wants to sit and trash talk me.
10:50That's the first offense.
10:51It's whether she's got Mary's best interest in mind.
10:55I don't know.
10:56Maybe here's the thing.
10:57Maybe people just don't think the plural marriage is good.
11:00And Mary wasn't happy in plural marriage.
11:02And that was Mary's best interest in mind.
11:04I don't think Jen was.
11:05Do you blame Jen?
11:07No, I think.
11:08For Mary leaving?
11:10No.
11:11Okay.
11:12She just had her part in whatever advice she was giving Mary.
11:15I mean, I think.
11:16Did Jen influence, have some sort of influence over Mary, Mary's actions to leave the family?
11:24Possibly, yes.
11:25I mean, like, listen, it's not my story to tell anymore.
11:28And I don't trash talk Jen anymore.
11:30It's verboten.
11:31What do you think about Mary's BFF, Jen?
11:33You know her or did you know her?
11:35No, we knew her.
11:36We've known her for a long time.
11:40She used to be the lady who would come and spray our houses for bugs.
11:44That was her business.
11:45Oh, so she owned a pest control company?
11:46Yes.
11:47Yeah.
11:48And I remember that she became really good friends with Mary during that time when all
11:53the catfishing and everything was going on.
11:55And a lot of drama was going on in Cody and Mary's relationship.
11:59And I will say, she said to me one time, well, I told Mary that she should, you know,
12:04just take all the money and leave.
12:06And I, at that point, I sort of ended that professional relationship with her because I felt uncomfortable.
12:11So you told Cody what was said between you and Jen?
12:16Yeah.
12:17I must have.
12:18Because you probably wondered why I was ending the, like, why I was looking for a different person.
12:23Mm-hmm.
12:24Did you tell Mary to take the money and run?
12:27I sincerely regret not telling Mary to leave.
12:31But I never told her to take the money and run.
12:34And what's funny, too, is I have never heard this story until literally this year.
12:41He's like, Mary, I have to tell you something.
12:43Jen's not good for you because this is what she did.
12:45And I'm like, she never told me that.
12:48Why would she go tell Janelle that she told me that?
12:51Like, she never told me to take the money and run.
12:56Oh, he's like, well, Janelle said that.
12:58Janelle told me when it actually happened.
12:59I'm like, it never happened.
13:01And then I did go and talk to Jen about it.
13:03Maybe she could have said it.
13:04But I don't think that Jen's intention back then was to have Mary leave.
13:11From what I remember, I don't know, it seems like Mary was still really wanting to be part of the family and was really loyal towards being part of the family.
13:21So a real friend wouldn't counsel in that way seriously.
13:26I think that if she said it, it would probably be more of like a, you should totally, totally take the money and run.
13:32You know, she's very sarcastic.
13:34She probably did say it, but I would say in a sarcastic way if she did.
13:37But I don't know.
13:39She actually denied ever saying that, take the money and run comment.
13:42I remember very clearly.
13:44So I know what I remember.
13:47And it was a very long time ago.
13:49So who knows?
13:50But it doesn't really matter now.
13:51I think Jen's great.
13:52I think she's wonderful for Mary.
13:54Yeah.
13:55Did she ever come to you and ask you to help Mary during this dark time that Mary was going through in Vegas?
14:02No, she never, we didn't never really talk about that.
14:05I was at Janelle's house and she's like, is Mary okay?
14:08And I said, no, she is not okay.
14:10She is definitely not okay.
14:12She needs you guys.
14:13And then I left Janelle's and I went to Mary's and I said, just so you know, I was talking about you behind your back.
14:18I told her that you guys, that they need to come and talk to you.
14:22And she goes, well, that'll never happen.
14:24I assumed that it was like...
14:26The sister wives were a lot closer?
14:28Yes, I really did.
14:29And so I didn't know when I first told Janelle, hey, you should, you guys should go talk to her.
14:34So once I finally started to realize that and I saw how unhappy she was, and I saw that no matter what she did and what she tried,
14:41I mean, she got a divorce for Pete's sake, just to like, make things better for everybody else.
14:47And it put her own relationship in complete turmoil at the same time she was becoming an empty nester.
14:53And not a single person was there to like, help her through that.
14:57Mm-hmm.
14:58I mean, you don't go and frame your marriage certificate to the person that you just got married to.
15:04When the sister wife...
15:06Yeah.
15:07...is, like, it was, sorry, it was just so insane to me that they weren't there for her.
15:12Who made up that part of take the money and run?
15:14It doesn't, it, I don't know, because it doesn't make sense.
15:17The thing is...
15:18I literally never stopped spraying any houses.
15:20She never stopped.
15:21I sold my company and they all continued to be my customers.
15:25To me, it feels like that this is a story that has just recently been fabricated for whatever reason.
15:32Coming up...
15:33Mary also said that you weren't there for her in Vegas during her dark times.
15:37That you were somebody that she would lean on, needed, and you weren't there for her.
15:42Well, that's a different, that's different than what she said in the past.
15:45I love it when I find out things from you instead of from her.
15:50When Mary was sitting on the sofa, she said the same thing, that she would share things with Robin and it would get back to you.
15:57I think they're scapegoating Robin. That's bull .
16:06Can I ask you a question?
16:08Mm-hmm.
16:09Do you think that you can sit down with other sister wives and also, you know, like Robin, and have a conversation together? Just you and her?
16:19Just me and Robin?
16:20And not trigger each other?
16:21Robin and I could have a conversation and not trigger each other.
16:24Really?
16:25I think so.
16:26She and I had a good relationship.
16:28Everybody saw it. We had a good relationship.
16:30But, you know, that just kind of over the years disintegrated.
16:34There was a lack of trust.
16:36So what dissolved the trust?
16:38Oh, my gosh.
16:40You know, the fact that she wasn't around for me. I felt like that she wasn't around for me in, you know, my dark time back in Vegas.
16:52How wasn't she there for you during your dark time in Vegas?
16:55I think that she was trying, but there was, like, certain things that I would say to her that would be found out.
17:04I don't know what you're talking about. Can you know?
17:06I would have conversations with her, and then my private conversation, things would be found out. Other people would find out.
17:14Mary also said that you weren't there for her in Vegas during her dark times, that you were somebody that she would lean on, needed, and you weren't there for her.
17:24Well, that's different than what she said in the past. So it's her new narrative.
17:30I mean, she used to say that, that I was there for her. Now she's saying I'm not. I wasn't, so.
17:36Do you think you were there for her?
17:38Yeah. I do. Yeah.
17:41Yeah.
17:42She said there was a betrayal of trust that happened. Like, she would say some things to you.
17:48Uh-huh.
17:49And then those things would somehow get out.
17:52Don't know what she's talking about as far as, like, things that I supposedly...
18:01She just felt like it was a violation of her trust with you.
18:04Okay. Well, that's news to me. I love it when I find out things from you instead of from her.
18:11You've actually talked about your own trust issues with Robin, right?
18:14Yeah.
18:15Yeah.
18:16And you've been very, very vocal about that.
18:17Yes, yes.
18:18Uh, you two had date night where you both discussed how moving forward as a family would have some challenges.
18:24But you guys were opening to talking about some of those challenges and how to push through as a family.
18:29Yeah.
18:30So let's take a look at this conversation and then we can discuss.
18:33I feel betrayed by Robin. Just betrayed.
18:36You know, there's things I confided in her and then she would tell Cody and I'd get in trouble.
18:41As much as she talks about wanting to be a sister wife, there was just not enough proof to show that...
18:48Because you need proof. Like, a sister wife relationship is one that you have to be able to trust the other person, you know? And I couldn't.
18:54I... I don't know. I'm a person that I like to be able to think that we can all get along in this world.
19:02Eventually, everybody does need to get together and I don't know what that looks like and I don't know what that would take. Would it take therapy? I don't know.
19:09Oh, I'm going to start with Christine.
19:12Um...
19:13Talking about Robin and saying that there was...
19:14And getting in trouble?
19:15Yeah.
19:16No, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no. Robin wasn't coming to me with complaints.
19:20I was experiencing a life with Christine that was pissing me off.
19:25Anytime I came after Christine like, hey, listen, your crappy attitude isn't helping us.
19:29Wasn't because of something Robin said or what Mary or Janelle said.
19:33It was specifically because I was in this relationship with Christine getting upset because of the way our relationship was.
19:41But why would she feel that Robin was repeating what she was saying? Obviously, she was having a candid conversation with another sister wife about you.
19:50And then if it got back to you, how did it get back to you?
19:55I... There was no time when I ever felt like Robin was betraying somebody else's trust.
20:01But Christine feels that way.
20:03I'm great. She feels that way. But I'm like... I'm like going, everything that I experienced with Christine, I experienced with Christine.
20:14I didn't think like she was doing well in plural marriage and it was bugging me.
20:20We wouldn't go out and sit in the backyard and eat because Christine was worried Janelle would come over.
20:27And I'm like, well, Christine, that's our family.
20:29Yeah.
20:30So it was like, like, if you and me want time out, let's go out.
20:34If we're having stuff with the kids, then let's go out in the backyard.
20:37And if Janelle comes over, that's fine.
20:38But Christine isn't the only one saying this when Mary was sitting on the sofa.
20:41She said the same thing, that she would share things with Robin and it would get back to you and get back to other people.
20:48I think they're scapegoating Robin.
20:50That's bull****** because I think that all my problems with Mary were me and Mary having problems, not Robin tattling.
21:01That's if you're trying to help someone and help a relationship, then that person can mediate in front of you.
21:07But if you're going to talk about like, so if there was a situation where she was trying to help Cody and I at the same time.
21:13Okay. Yeah. But if I'm going to talk to her and then she's going to go behind my back and talk to Cody about it, then you can't trust someone who does that.
21:21So I trusted her and I opened up to her and I did let her know what was close to my heart, that he was whatever.
21:30He wasn't being present in my kid's life and he wasn't like just part of that.
21:35He just wasn't part of it.
21:37And then I don't know what she would tell him, but it wasn't like he would ever come to me and be like,
21:44you know, Robin told me about something that you told her and let's talk about that and let's like fix that.
21:52No, it was he'd come at me with anger.
21:54And so I don't know what she told him, but she did tell him without me knowing she was going to tell him.
22:00I just like it was just done in a way that instead of helping, it just really hurt.
22:06Okay.
22:07Christine and I are no longer together because of Christine and I has nothing to do with Robin.
22:14She's being a total hypocrite here.
22:17I'm sorry to say that because she's talking about both sides of her mouth.
22:21She's talking about getting the family together, but she never wants to have a relationship with Mary or Robin.
22:29Double-minded completely.
22:32It's okay.
22:33That's her life.
22:34And I'm just not going to let it bother me.
22:36But it does bother me when they try to blame Robin for what was wrong in them.
22:43I'm just going to ask this one more time.
22:45What?
22:46Did Robin ever tell you things that were told to her in confidence?
22:50I'm just going to ask this one more time.
23:03What?
23:04Did Robin ever tell you things that were told to her in confidence?
23:11The catfishing stuff was probably stuff she brought to me.
23:14Yeah.
23:15But I don't know that she was told that in confidence or if she saw that online.
23:24It's funny.
23:25They're all gone.
23:26They've been gone for years.
23:27They're still blaming Robin for it.
23:28Why don't they just blame themselves that they weren't happy in the marriage and that they and me, each one of them, couldn't work out the relationship?
23:38We actually had a conversation with him in the Vegas kitchen and tried to explain something to him that he just refused to accept.
23:46And it was during the catfish.
23:47We tried very hard to, like, give him all the information he was asking for.
23:52And because he didn't want to hear it, he shut her down.
23:55And that was the end of it.
23:56She's like, there's no point.
23:57There's just no point in trying to have a conversation with him.
23:59And so it was in moments like that, that, okay, well, I guess you don't want to have a conversation with me.
24:04You don't want to hear what actually is going on.
24:06You already have a different narrative in your head of what's going on.
24:10So I'm, I'm doing this one on my own.
24:13So this was during your dark times when you were having a conversation publicly with, with another man.
24:18Yeah.
24:19Right.
24:20So you're having a conversation publicly.
24:21I mean, it wasn't a public conversation until the catfisher decided to, you know, make it public.
24:27Okay.
24:28Okay.
24:29They were not public conversations.
24:30They were not public conversations, but they did become public.
24:33And the, the, the version that he wanted to, he, she, whatever wanted to tell is what became public.
24:40Mm-hmm.
24:41Yeah.
24:42Not my version and not the truth.
24:44But what were you trying to explain to Cody in the kitchen that he didn't want to hear?
24:48What was actually happening with that?
24:51That this person was like kind of coming after me and kind of coming after us.
24:59And there was like us as a family and the manipulation that was all involved in that and the lies that were all involved in that.
25:07Do you have, understand why maybe Mary could have a right to distrust you?
25:14No.
25:16No.
25:17After everything that's happened, you don't feel that Mary has any grounds to distrust you?
25:21No.
25:22I do not.
25:23I absolutely do not.
25:24I have been, I have had Mary's back.
25:26She said, I'm going to go back to this again.
25:29She said in Vegas, when she was going through her dark times, she leaned on you.
25:33Yeah.
25:34And when she shared things with you, it would end up coming back to her.
25:38All I know is that she was having a conversation online about flowers and texting and music and flirting.
25:48And I was like, she is struggling.
25:50Get your butt over there.
25:52Figure this out with her.
25:54That's what I was doing.
25:56Okay.
25:57She's sitting here saying that she can't trust me because of this or that.
26:00I had her fricking back.
26:02Okay.
26:03I was sitting there watching everything that was happening and I was worried about her.
26:08And I was saying, she kicked you out.
26:11You go stay in another room.
26:12You have the conversation with her.
26:14You don't come over here.
26:16You go work it out with her.
26:18She's being taken advantage of, even if I didn't know it was a catfishing situation,
26:23even just somebody sitting there taking advantage of someone who was struggling,
26:26a woman who's struggling.
26:28I was like, you get your butt over there and you talk to her.
26:30You work this out.
26:31I was talking to her.
26:33What is this?
26:34What is this conversation you're having?
26:36Why are you talking to this person?
26:39I was trying to, I was being open with both of them.
26:44I was talking to both of them.
26:48If people want to say, if she wants to say that somehow I did something wrong there,
26:52that is fine.
26:53I don't have a problem with that because I know what my intentions were.
26:57Robin did.
27:00Robin would come over and talk to me about it.
27:03And like, what's going on?
27:04What's going on?
27:05And I would tell her what's going on.
27:07But then other stuff would happen and other stories would be out there and other communications,
27:13supposedly, you know, would happen.
27:16And so you put two and two together and you're saying that maybe Robin was the leak?
27:21I'm not saying I know who was the leak.
27:26I just know that, you know what?
27:28No.
27:30No.
27:31There were times that I would have a conversation with Robin that the catfisher would find out about.
27:40And it was specifically only with Robin.
27:44Nobody else knew.
27:45Correct.
27:46So that's why you said earlier that you were feeling betrayed.
27:50There was a huge lack of trust there because my private conversations that I was having with Robin.
27:57And I don't believe that she did it intentionally to hurt me.
28:02I think she did it to try to help the situation.
28:05But she kept making it worse and kept making it worse by sharing the information.
28:12And I even kept saying to her, don't talk.
28:15Don't talk.
28:17When she was talking, who was she talking to?
28:20A friend that she had at the time that was in communication with a catfisher.
28:25And this is so weird why I was so freaking talking about it.
28:28What did she say when you were—
28:29No, but what did she say when you continued to talk about it?
28:32I would ask her not to.
28:35And she's like, I'm trying to help.
28:37I'm like, but you're not helping.
28:39It's not helping.
28:40Just stop talking.
28:42Mary did say that things would get back to other people that she was sharing with Robin.
28:49Oh, this was probably all divorce stuff with—oh, yeah, sure.
28:55Sure, the whole catfishing thing.
28:57Yeah, Mary had a relationship with a man that was inappropriate.
29:01I'm sorry, that's 10 years old.
29:04If Mary's bringing that up here, I had the right to know.
29:08But this is why they feel that they can't be friends or trust Robin.
29:13If your wife's having an affair and your other wife tells you,
29:17that's my business, no matter what!
29:21You can't blame Robin for not telling me about an affair.
29:34That is so hypocritical.
29:37Mary was being a hypocrite during that entire thing.
29:41And we circled the wagons to protect her.
29:43And it would have all worked out fine if Mary and I would have had a good relationship,
29:51because it was all forgivable.
29:53But if your wife is having an affair and your other wife knows it,
29:58I was being kicked out of the house.
30:01It's like, don't put that on Robin.
30:04That's totally hypocritical.
30:09That's not some action of Robin's where she was causing problems.
30:13Robin has been the moral compass in this entire family since she entered it.
30:18Ooh, thanks!
30:21Just a moment.
30:24Just a moment.
30:25Just a moment.
30:26I just like-
30:27Let's move on to a happier place, back to the BFF spot.
30:29Back to the best friends who have been helping each other this past year,
30:32especially you helping her with dating.
30:34Trying to figure out what fits you.
30:35Yep.
30:36The new Mary.
30:37You've met this guy named Ron and sparks started to fly and things started to feel good.
30:43So let's take a look at you and your journey of finding new love, Mary.
30:47I think you're funny. You're very witty. You're very funny. I've kind of learned that today.
30:52Yeah?
30:52So, it's good to spend time.
30:54Just today?
30:55I learned it to a new level today.
31:00I hope that's not a bad thing.
31:01No, not a bad thing. No, it's good to, this is why you spend time with someone.
31:05Right.
31:06Because you learn a lot and you get to know them and, you know, little things that you never knew.
31:11Right.
31:11Ron and I definitely have a connection.
31:13We both have shared with each other that, yeah, there's a reason why we're in each other's lives.
31:21What that reason is, you know, remains to be seen.
31:25I am so happy right now, Ron.
31:27I love that.
31:30Yeah.
31:32I'm happy too. This is a good place to be.
31:36Mary, you look so happy.
31:39I am happy.
31:40No, tell me about Ron. You look happy. Like, really happy.
31:44Ron is a really cool guy.
31:46Very comfortable. I'm very comfortable hanging out with him.
31:49Do you like him like him?
31:51You know what? Ron and I are building this really cool friendship.
31:57Okay.
31:57Yeah, it's really cool. Like, I really love that I can be myself around him.
32:04Like, I literally can just be myself around him.
32:08Do you like Ron?
32:09I do like Ron. He's a really nice person.
32:14Jen, do you hope Ron becomes more than a friend for Mary?
32:18If that's what Ron and Mary want, then yes.
32:21Mary, is that what you want?
32:24I mean, have you looked at him?
32:27He's cute.
32:28You know, you're flirting. You're loose.
32:31That means that you're like...
32:32I'm comfortable with him. I'm very comfortable with him.
32:35Okay.
32:35And I enjoy spending time with him.
32:36Comfortable meaning you've held hands. You've kissed. Have you kissed? Can I ask that?
32:41You can ask. Sure.
32:42Will you answer?
32:44No.
32:46I won't.
32:48So when's your next date with Ron?
32:51Ron and I don't date.
32:54Ron and I hang out and enjoy each other's company.
32:57Okay. Call it what you want.
32:58When's your next hangout, Mary?
33:01Mary, when are you hanging out with your friend, Ron?
33:06Does that make you feel better?
33:09I'm going to have to ask Ron how he feels about this conversation.
33:12Yeah. Yeah.
33:14That was so cute.
33:15That was cute.
33:16Yeah.
33:16I mean, there's more.
33:18I hope that they just don't end friends.
33:20I hope that...
33:20That was so cute.
33:21You don't sit there.
33:23I'm going to jump like you did.
33:25Stop it, David.
33:27Yeah.
33:27You guys didn't have...
33:28They want to take it slow.
33:29I don't know.
33:29You know, slow, be friends, get to know each other.
33:32I just thought I was slow.
33:34You guys were not slow.
33:35No.
33:35So, what do you think about Mary dating?
33:39It looked like a lot of fun.
33:40Yeah.
33:41There's some good energy there.
33:42Yeah?
33:43Yeah, it looked great.
33:44It's this exciting experience.
33:46When you first meet people, I mean, it's like, it's just really cute.
33:51That's lovely.
33:51And whether they work or not, it's like there's this excitement that you kind of get watching it.
33:58I haven't seen a lot of that in a long time.
34:00You know what I mean?
34:02It's so, it's fun to, it's like seeing her in a happy element.
34:07It's great.
34:08When was the last time you saw her like that?
34:09Was it like that when you first met?
34:11Like literally, okay, I've never seen this, but right after my apology, Mary and I sat and started chatting about things.
34:20And it was fun.
34:23So, there's, yeah.
34:25There's always a door that's open there.
34:26It's long, but we can get on the phone.
34:30Mary and I, even in that last chat we had, we caught ourselves escalating to triggers.
34:35Trigger, trigger, trigger.
34:36And there's like, wait, wait, wait, Mary, I'm so sorry.
34:38Yeah, we got it.
34:39Like, I didn't, I didn't mean to.
34:41And she's like, oh, we caught ourselves.
34:43It's like, okay, we got to stop this.
34:45But if you can acknowledge that that does happen, maybe you can stop yourself and leave the door open to a possible friendship.
34:53Maybe.
34:58When you're in a space where there's so much trust has been harmed, you want to, you want to trust.
35:06You want to be friends if you can.
35:09There's reasons why you should be.
35:11But it just doesn't take much to just suddenly feel betrayed over again.
35:20Being friendly is vital for our lives and our children.
35:23But friendship is based on trust.
35:27And I know that what will happen, I don't know, would you say, Ron?
35:32Marrying Ron, if they continue on, they will build a relationship on trust.
35:38Trust, you know, but we're past that.
35:42It's trust once murdered cannot be resurrected, usually.
35:47If you can't be friends, can you get to a place where you can at least be friendly?
35:51Oh, no, we're definitely friendly.
35:53We are definitely friendly.
35:55Do you think there'll be a time where Cody and his ex-wives can actually be friends?
36:01I don't know.
36:03I don't know.
36:03I think it would be really cool.
36:06And, I mean, I've said it to him from the beginning of our divorce, you know, the beginning of the end.
36:15You know, I've said it to him.
36:16Let's just be kind.
36:17Let's not do this.
36:18And if he and Robin want to have a relationship with me and want to, like, move forward from here on out and be kind, I would be open to it.
36:30So is this an invitation to them right now that you're giving?
36:33Yeah.
36:34Absolutely it's an invitation.
36:36I've had that invitation open from day one.
36:40From day one.
36:44Betrayal is an illusion.
36:46And when I have sorted this out long enough, this idea that the illusion of betrayal in divorce or the illusion of betrayal in relationships, maybe I'll be okay, but I am not there yet.
37:02Going back to the apologies, would it have been safe for them to come to you and talk about why they wanted to leave?
37:16Coming up, do you feel that more people in the family need to step up and do some apologizing?
37:27No.
37:28Like, I feel like Cody was probably the one who really...
37:31Cody was the head of family.
37:32I think he could have done a lot better job.
37:35Do you feel like there's anything that you need to apologize for?
37:38Have you ever apologized to either Cody, Janelle, Mary, or even Robin?
37:53Going back to the apologies, would it have been safe for them to come to you and talk about why they wanted to leave?
38:04I mean, no, at the time it probably wouldn't have because I didn't know I was doing something wrong.
38:15I didn't know I felt contemptuous.
38:17I didn't know I was angry.
38:18Even though I probably knew I just wasn't allowing myself to be conscious of it.
38:25Does it matter if they accepted the apology or not?
38:29It makes me feel better if they do accept it.
38:31But if they don't accept it, I'll just say it again.
38:35After all this, do you accept Cody's apology and how he reached out to you?
38:39Look, I thought it was very nice.
38:41I felt sincerity from it.
38:43And there were some things, like especially about the early years, that were very healing for me to hear.
38:48So you're happy that Cody made this first step?
38:51Yeah, I mean, I think that was great.
38:54Maybe there will be more peace among all the adults.
38:57I feel like that there probably was some sort of karmic thing that got put to bed.
39:03Do you feel that more people in the family need to step up and do some apologizing?
39:10No.
39:11Like, I feel like Cody was probably the one who really...
39:14Cody was the head of the family.
39:16I think he could have done a lot better job.
39:18Does anyone think they deserve an apology?
39:20I mean, I guess if they do and they feel like I need to give them an apology,
39:25if they asked me, I think we could consider it.
39:27Because I definitely don't want to have, you know, somebody out there thinking I've wronged them.
39:35Yeah.
39:37I love that he did it.
39:38Okay.
39:39I do.
39:39I love that he did it.
39:40If that's something that is going to help him as he moves forward in his life, I love that he did it.
39:46And you forgive him for that time in Vegas of him not being there?
39:50You forgive him?
39:51Yeah.
39:51Yeah, because here's the thing, Suki.
39:53I have a really good life.
39:55I'm really happy with where I am.
39:57And all those moments led to who I am, right?
40:03So I don't regret it.
40:05Does he owe you more apologies?
40:07No.
40:09No.
40:10No.
40:11I think he did the apologies that he felt were necessary, and he does not owe me anything.
40:19Is there anything that you need to apologize for?
40:23I mean, there's a lot of stuff that we have all done to each other through the years.
40:28And, you know, and I think that there's always something to apologize for.
40:34I think there's always something to ask forgiveness for.
40:38Do you feel like there's anything that you need to apologize for?
40:42Apologize to either Cody, Janelle, Mary, or even Robin?
40:48I'm sure there'd be things that I don't know.
40:56I don't know.
40:57I have changed so much.
40:59I'm a different person now.
41:01I don't know.
41:03I don't think so.
41:05I'm just moving on.
41:06I hope they all move on, too.
41:08I think that we just need to move on.
41:10If we keep on dwelling in the past and focusing on the past and needing to go back in the past to fix the past, just let it go and move on.
41:20Let's just think what we're going to do to build from here and realize that, look, we all said and did things that, you know, let's just leave it as it is.
41:32Because you can't fix it.
41:33You can't.
41:34Do you think he needs to apologize for anything else or do you think any of the other wives need to apologize to Cody?
41:43It's really not my place to say that's their own personal journey and to sit there and say I think that's just really not my business.
41:51Do you think anyone owes you an apology?
41:55Again, that's their own personal journey.
41:57Would you like to apologize to anybody?
41:59I don't think I'd, I think I'm fine.
42:04Yeah.
42:05Yeah.
42:06Are there any apologies that could possibly set you free?
42:09I don't really look at it that same way.
42:11My forgiveness of someone else is my job.
42:15You know, forgiveness is a very personal experience and journey.
42:19It's not so much about the other person, it's about yourself.
42:22And I think that's the perfect way where we can end the conversation today.
42:25Yeah.
42:25Thank you so much.
42:26Mm-hmm.
42:26I would like, honestly, genuinely, I'd like to be in a place where I could have conversations with each of the four of them and be good.
42:37And, like, I don't have to trust them with my life.
42:40You know, I don't, it doesn't have to be that.
42:43But to be in a place where it's just comfortable and we can let the past go, because we're never going to see eye to eye on it.
42:50We're never going to, like, I'm never going to understand their, their brains and how they look at something.
42:57I'm not in their brains.
42:58I don't know.
42:59I will never understand it, you know.
43:01So I'd be open to it, but it would, it would definitely take some conversation.
43:06So my last question to you is, do you feel like you've been heard and that you had a voice here?
43:13Here, absolutely.
43:17I feel like I have definitely had a voice and thank you for letting me use it.
43:23I appreciate that.
43:24I don't believe the break is clean as I wanted it when I was apologizing, but I don't know.
43:34I just think it's time for all of us to move on with all my heart in hopes of Mary Janelle and Christine having a wonderful life.
43:44And if, if there's still something tied up in there, if there's still a hurt, I would want them to call me up and say, hey, I was hurt by this once.
43:56Could you explain it to me?
43:57And I can take the time to explain it.
44:00Yeah, I want all the hurt to end.
44:03I want everybody to move on.
44:05I want everybody to feel free and move on with forgiveness.
44:11Cody, thank you so much for this incredible conversation.
44:15I feel like, you know, we were able to get rid of some of the contradictions, clear up a lot of things.
44:19Are you sure?
44:21You know, with the Brown family, I never know, but I feel like I got some clarity and I hope everybody else did too.
44:27Yeah.
44:28And all I do is wish you the best, you and your family.
44:31So thank you for your candid conversation.
44:35You're welcome.
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