- 5 days ago
The big talking point of this episode of 'To The Point' is the unprecedented no-confidence motion filed by 118 opposition MPs against Lok Sabha Speaker Om Birla, alleging institutional bias.
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00:00Speaker Aum Birla in the dog.
00:21Opposition turns heat on Speaker.
00:30Opposition elegance bias. Partisanship.
00:38BJP mocks opposition's no trust motion.
00:51Is the Speaker biased?
00:53Or is the opposition cornered?
01:05Who controls the house?
01:11Good evening. You're watching India today to the point.
01:20This evening rolls from the beautiful Bond city of Chennai,
01:24where we're all set for our election Tamil Nadu round table.
01:29Well, that's up tomorrow.
01:30Stay tuned for the best, the biggest and the sharpest interviews right here.
01:35But first up, before we get into our big debate this evening,
01:38allow me to take you through the headlines.
01:40Amidst Lok Sabha logjam, sources say Aum Birla steps aside as Speaker
01:50after opposition no trust move.
01:52Debate on opposition's no trust motion likely on March 9th.
01:56About 118 opposition MPs have signed no trust notice against Speaker.
02:03Showdown over ex-army chief's book escalates.
02:10General Naraone breaks silence, reports Penguin statement on social media,
02:15saying book hasn't been published yet.
02:17After FIR by Delhi police, Rahul claimed book was available on Amazon.
02:21Big claim by Ajit Pawar's nephew, Rohit Pawar over uncle's death claims plane crash could be a part of a conspiracy,
02:33says some six people were in the aircraft. It was not Ajit Dada's dead body.
02:38Kanpur tobacco baron pushes driver alibi.
02:46Shivam's father says driver behind the wheel, not son.
02:50Pat flown to Delhi, citing medical emergency.
02:56Raul over Mysore's sandal soap ad in Karnataka.
02:59Tamanna Bhatia as brand ambassador's PACs outrage.
03:02BJP says Sidhu government ignored Kannada talent hires outside.
03:08Accuses Sidhu of insulting Kannada heritage.
03:15It's a U-turn for Pakistan.
03:17End boycott drama to play against India on the 15th of February in Colombo.
03:22Pakistan backtracks after ICC intervenes.
03:25Pakistan's demands are rejected.
03:32All right, let's get you up to speed with the latest news break that is coming in from Mumbai after Dhurandar.
03:49It is Ranveer Singh who is now on the hit list.
03:54The latest coming in is Ranveer Singh has received a threatening message.
03:58Let's take you on the details of what that message entails.
04:02Sources tell us following the shooting incident at Rohit Shetty's house,
04:06Bollywood actor Ranveer Singh has now received a message which is threatening in nature.
04:14It was sent via WhatsApp voice note demanding crores of rupees extortion.
04:20Following the threat, the Mumbai police was informed, following which security was increased outside Ranveer Singh's house.
04:28The sender also has mentioned that he is from the Lawrence Bishinoye gang.
04:33The police are searching for the person who sent the threatening audio note.
04:37That's the latest that is coming in.
04:40Viewers are threatening WhatsApp voice note sent to actor Ranveer Singh.
04:45It's a note asking for money extortion where the Bollywood actor is concerned.
04:51Crores of rupees has been asked.
04:53Ranveer Singh has reported this incident and now the police have taken the investigations over.
05:01What we've been told that the responsibility of the voice note, the Lawrence Bishinoye gang has claimed responsibility.
05:09All of this happens in the backdrop of shooting in front of Rohit Shetty's house who is an action film director.
05:17Joining me is my colleague Divesh Singh with the latest.
05:21Divesh, what more can you add?
05:23And Divesh, correct me if I'm wrong.
05:24Isn't this the first time that Lawrence Bishinoye's gang has now levelled an extortion threat where a Bollywood actor is concerned?
05:34Asking for crores of money for security.
05:37Well, Preeti, the sender, the accused person who sent this threatening voice note to Ranveer Singh, to actor Ranveer Singh, demanding crores of rupees, also in the voice note mentioned that he was a member of the Lawrence Bishinoye gang.
05:58But it is yet not clear whether this is a person actually associated with the gang or not.
06:07He did mention in the voice note that he's part of the Lawrence Bishinoye gang, threatened actor Ranveer Singh, demanded crores of rupees as extortion.
06:16So this could be a copycat also or it could be a member of the Lawrence Bishinoye gang, but only when the investigation is completed, when the person is apprehended, only then we'll know whether this person is actually a member of the Lawrence Bishinoye gang or he is a copycat who is using the name of Lawrence Bishinoye gang, threatening actor Ranveer Singh.
06:40Somebody impersonating the Lawrence Bishinoye gang, so somebody, is it somebody who's impersonating the Lawrence Bishinoye gang or is it somebody else is needing to be investigated?
06:51But till now Divesh, the Lawrence Bishinoye gang hasn't levelled extortion threats yet. If at all, after investigation, it is proven that the caller indeed is from the gang of Lawrence Bishinoye, then this would be the first extortion threat to a Bollywood actor.
07:10Exactly, Preeti, this could be the first time because we have seen on earlier occasions as well, the firing that happened at Salman Khan's residence, the killing of NCP leader Baba Siddiqui, the shootout at Rohit Shetty's residence.
07:28None of these cases, there was demand of any kind of extortion amount. There were threats issued, they had also shared social media posts where they claimed that they had carried out the attack, the Lawrence Bishinoye gang had carried out the attack.
07:45But this is for the first time that an extortion threat demanding crores of rupees has been issued through a voice note over WhatsApp on Ranveer Singh's mobile number.
07:58So that is now being investigated by multiple teams of the Mumbai Police and Security.
08:01Alright, and now what needs to be investigated is whether or not is this impersonation of someone connected to the Lawrence Bishinoye gang or indeed this is now the Lawrence Bishinoye gang asking for extortion, protection money,
08:15take you back viewers, harks backs to the early 90s, the 90s in Bollywood where protection money was routinely given by Bollywood actors to gang members.
08:26Is this a redux of that too early? But investigations are on and the latest we have been given to understand is that the police is trying to connect whether this was somebody impersonating as being part of the Lawrence Bishinoye gang or is it just a prank call of sorts.
08:42We'll keep you updated with the latest. Thank you, Divesh, for taking the time out, joining us, giving us that news break there.
08:50With that, I want to quickly cut across viewers to the latest that we are tracking where the parliament comes into question.
08:58Today, finally, after whether they will or not, you had opposition uniting together, devoid of the TMC.
09:07TMC wasn't part of it and moving a motion against the sitting speaker, a no confidence motion where the sitting speaker is concerned.
09:20And interesting because now it seems it will be the first week of March where it will be come up for discussion.
09:28Has the motion been accepted? We're going to try and get in the latest details coming in on that.
09:32But interimly, till the time, you know, this comes to fruition, the speaker has decided he will not sit on proceedings. Here's more.
09:41The opposition turns up the heat against Lok Sabha Speaker, Om Birla, submitting a notice to move a no confidence motion against him.
09:55Backed by 118 MPs, the notice accuses the chair of bias and partisanship, alleging denial of speaking time, selective action and sweeping suspensions.
10:06Opposition's main charge is speaker not letting Rahul Gandhi complete his speech on the motion of thanks to the president's address.
10:15From the memoir...
10:40Rahul Gandhi has not signed the notice.
10:44The Congress claimed the leader of the opposition backing a motion against the speaker would breach parliamentary convention.
10:52There are cracks within the opposition.
10:55The Trinamul Congress has stayed away from the no confidence motion.
10:59The notice itself seemed to have been drafted in a hurry.
11:03The first notice carried a factual error, mentioning 2025 instead of 2026.
11:10A revised notice was submitted soon after.
11:13The move for no trust motion follows consultations within the India bloc, where leaders flagged BGP MP Nishikan Dubey's speech,
11:23quoting books inside House and the speaker's controversial claim, suggesting women MPs from Congress posed a threat to the Prime Minister on February 4th.
11:33Amid mounting accusations, Parliamentary Affairs Minister Kieran Rijijiju released fresh footage of the February 4th chaos, claiming these images reveal the security threats.
11:45The opposition dismisses the charges as deliberate diversion.
12:14The Parliamentary Affairs Minister, why he wants to prove Honorable Speaker wrong?
12:39Whatever the Honorable Speaker says, the Parliamentary Affairs Minister wants to prove that the Honorable Speaker is wrong.
12:47This is the first time it is happening.
12:49We are very much paying that the leader of the opposition is not allowed to speak by the Parliamentary Affairs Minister.
12:54He forces the Honorable Speaker to deny the right of the opposition to speak.
12:58As things stand, a no trust motion, even if admitted, is bound to fall, as the NDA government has the numbers.
13:08The move by the opposition, however, is to embarrass the Speaker, as no confidence motions against the chair are a rare occurrence.
13:15We are going to report India today.
13:18All right, the latest news break right now coming in is the Speaker, Mr. Om Virla, has decided until and unless there is a discussion, if the motion is accepted, he will not chair the Lok Sabha.
13:40Top sources say that Lok Sabha Speaker, Om Virla, has decided he will not attend the House until the motion to remove him is discussed and decided upon.
13:50Although the rules do not require such a motion, but he has decided to keep away, it is likely, we don't right now know exactly if the motion has been accepted or if it will be accepted.
14:01But sources tell us that it will be accepted and it will be on March 9th, that first day of the second part of the budget session, that the discussion will take place on this.
14:12Joining me is my colleague Aishwarya Paliwal in just about a minute.
14:16But the latest that we are getting in viewers is the fact that the Speaker has decided to stay away from parliamentary proceedings until and unless the motion is brought up for discussion.
14:31All right, let's move on.
14:40Move on and cut across to our guest this evening.
14:43Joining me is Sanju Verma, National Spokesperson, Bharatiya Janata Party, Divya Mahipal-Maderna, Spokesperson, Congress and former MLA, Javed Ansari, Senior Journalist.
14:52I want to bring in, before we get to our political guest, Javed Ansari.
14:55All of you, our panelists will be given a two-minute time to encapsulate your views.
15:00Javed, interesting, it's unfortunate, but yet if you look at the history, 31 no-confidence motions have been moved in the history of India's parliament, three against speakers.
15:13This would be the third.
15:15Indeed, the first one was against Mr. Mavlankar in the early 50s.
15:19And although the motion technically was not in other order than the Prime Minister of the day, Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru, said, let's not stand on technicalities, let's debate this.
15:30The way things were heading, something had to give.
15:34And therefore, I'm not surprised.
15:35But I am certainly distressed because, I mean, how, you know, the way parliament has become dysfunctional is really distressing.
15:45I've covered parliament for 40 years.
15:48And if you can't debate, discuss, if people don't have the right to speak in parliament, then what else is parliament meant for?
15:56It's meant for debate.
15:57It's meant to legislate.
15:59And the thumb rule is that the opposition must have its say, and the government must finally have its way.
16:05I don't know how much of this is being followed, but what we see now is this unfortunate impulse.
16:11And this has become routine.
16:12This is not an aberration.
16:14This, unfortunately, has become routine.
16:16Every session starts off the first week, couple of days are just washed out, and then somehow there is some kind of a compromise.
16:22Why can't the same compromise, why can't the Lok Sabha have taken a leaf out of the Raj Sabha's book, where it's functioning?
16:33You know, this paints parliamentarians and parliament in a not so rosy picture.
16:41As it is, people don't have too much of faith, too much.
16:44The politicians, today's politicians don't enjoy a great amount of credibility with the people.
16:49And the more such things happen, that whatever little is left is further eroded.
16:55Inevitable, but certainly most unfortunate.
17:04Sanju Verma, inevitable, unfortunate with what we are witnessing in parliament.
17:09You know, the motion still hasn't been accepted.
17:12But once it does, there will be a discussion.
17:15But a big question mark, Sanju Verma, if you look at the history of parliament,
17:18the kind of trust deficit, especially in the last couple of sessions,
17:22it is, I would think, the nadir, the worst of it all,
17:26between the treasury benches and the opposition MPs.
17:31You know, Preeti, I agree that everybody needs to be heard on the floor of the parliament,
17:37both treasury benches and the opposition benches.
17:39But where I disagree, very humbly with Mr. Javed Ansari, is this.
17:46The parliament has certain rules and regulations and procedure needs to be adhered to.
17:52Now, I'm on Preeti Chaudhary's show.
17:54You know, I can't be discussing the theory of relativity by Albert Einstein.
17:58I can't be discussing how Thomas Alva Edison in 1879 discovered the first incandescent light bulb
18:04or the law of gravity by Albert, you know, the law of gravity by Newton.
18:09So the limited point is that convention needs to be respected.
18:14Lok Sabha, in the, you know, portals of Lok Sabha, this is what happened.
18:19I will name these MPs because I think they need to be named and shamed.
18:23Manikam Tagore, Gurjeet Singh, Audla, Amrinder Singh, Raja Waring,
18:27Hibi Eden, Prashank Padole, C. Kiran Kumar Reddy, Dean Kuriyakoze, S. Venkatesan.
18:33Barring S. Venkatesan, all the other MPs are from the Congress party.
18:38Congress is number one when it comes to hooliganism and rowdy behavior,
18:42bordering on thagri on the floor of the parliament.
18:45The second thing is, the speaker clearly told Rahul Gandhi,
18:49under Rule 349, you cannot be quoting from a book, a magazine or a newspaper.
18:53And lo and behold, today General Manoj Mukund Narawane has said his book is not published.
18:59Penguin Random House has said the book has not gone into public session.
19:02Anyone circulating any kind of material, PDF, otherwise is tantamounting to copyright infringement.
19:09And the other thing I want to say is this,
19:12that what have the MPs said in their letter to the, you know, Lok Sabha speaker,
19:17they have said that, you know,
19:19these eight MPs were standing on the table of the Lok Sabha speaker.
19:27They were throwing paper rockets at the speaker.
19:30They were carrying out placards.
19:31All right, Ms. Verma, I believe your time is up.
19:38I want to get in Divya Mahipal-Madirna, the Congress spokesperson on this.
19:43You've moved a no-confidence motion,
19:45but it does seem some of your India allies don't have confidence in your own party.
19:50Why has TMC chosen to stay away from this no-confidence motion?
19:53Well, it's all, we're the principal opposition party, Preeti.
20:02And as we had seen that ED, CBI,
20:06all of these constitutional agencies have been used for their saffron agenda.
20:11And now we see the speaker,
20:14somebody who's supposed to be the custodian,
20:16the impartial referee of the democracy's greatest arena,
20:20is now the BJP's 13th batsman.
20:22You know, what was happening?
20:24The leader of the opposition has not been given time to speak.
20:27He's not been allowed to speak.
20:29From last four days, we've been seeing what theatrics and dramas has been turning out.
20:34They're saying the opposition is creating a chaos.
20:37Is it really the opposition?
20:38Is it us, is it the prime minister hiding behind the speaker?
20:42Or is it the leader of opposition hiding behind the speaker?
20:45I mean, it's all there in the public domain.
20:47We can all see it.
20:47I mean, the speaker went out and said,
20:51I'm very sorry to say to make something like this.
21:00What kind of intelligence did they have?
21:02If they really had an intelligence, then how did Pahlgaav happen?
21:05How did Redford happen?
21:07I don't think somebody as dignified who's supposed to be an impartial referee of the House should make such statements.
21:15If it is important for the leader of the House to speak, it's equally important for the leader of opposition to speak in the House.
21:21And what are they hiding?
21:22Why are we not having a debate here?
21:26There has to be certain kind of accountability.
21:29That's because the prime minister and the BJP does not want to ask the tough questions.
21:33What about the U.S. trade deal?
21:36What about the fate of the farmers?
21:38What about the Indochina border security?
21:44What about jobs and inflation?
21:47Your foreign policy has gone for a toss.
21:49And we can all see that you want to hide all these people who have left the people.
21:55Your time is up.
21:58Well, where General Naravadi is concerned, he's actually come out through his publisher and says the book has not been published.
22:04So, you know, that possibly answered one part of your question.
22:07But you've raised strong points.
22:09I want to bring in Javed Ansari.
22:10Final comments from all our panelists.
22:12Javed Ansari, two minutes to you.
22:14Because if there is a trust deficit and it's unprecedented with what we've seen between the government and the opposition where parliament is concerned,
22:23even within the opposition, Javed, there are fissures.
22:26The sheer fact that something that Divya didn't quite answer, the TMC has chosen to stay away of signing the no confidence motion
22:34because they don't want to come off, you know, being seen signing off on confidence, no confidence motion that stems with Rahul Gandhi in the poll position.
22:43They can't afford to do that.
22:44They're going into an election against the Congress.
22:49Well, Preethi, like I said, I'm not surprised as far as the TMC is concerned.
22:56For now, they're staying out.
22:58This issue will come up before parliament 20 days from now.
23:0320 days is a very long time in politics.
23:06Who knows what might happen?
23:09So, the jury is still out on TMC.
23:11But yes, certainly at the moment, it doesn't look good.
23:14Why?
23:15You know, there is an absolute breakdown in parliament.
23:18There is no communication.
23:20The doors have been shut from both sides as far as communications come.
23:24Parliament is all about, it's not just about what happens on the floor of the house.
23:28That's very important.
23:29But impasses have been broken earlier by backroom parlays, by, you know, floor managers of both sides getting together in the speaker's chamber or in the leader of the house's chamber and talking things over.
23:44You know, you can always, it's all about compromises.
23:48It's all about give and take.
23:49And Sanju Ji was making very valid points that, you know, as far as she was citing rules.
23:54But then these rules have to be applied uniformly.
23:59They cannot be pick and choose.
24:01What is good for the group is good for the gander.
24:04What is good for the opposition must be applied with equal vigor when it comes to MPs from the treasury benches.
24:12Much of what has happened could have been avoided.
24:19Okay, Sanju Verma, I want to bring you in because, you know, one can debate ad nauseum on, oh, it's terrible, it's happened, you know, it's unprecedented, moving a privilege motion against, moving a no-confidence motion against the speaker.
24:34But, Sanju Verma, if you break it down, let's look at the charges that have been leveled by the opposition.
24:40Opposition women MPs allege that the speaker constantly allows defamatory comments made against women MPs to go on record.
24:49Now, that is disparaging and damaging.
24:52Number two, Sanju Verma, which was a point that was made by Divya Maderna as well.
24:57If either the speaker comes out and denies the fact that he never forewarned the prime minister of a possible attack on the prime minister inside the parliament because the charge is grave.
25:08And if at all that is true, then instead of politically milking it, one needs to register an FIR and follow the legal course because that's a big, big charge.
25:18Preeti, you've raised some very valid points and let me just answer, you know, everything very pointedly.
25:27First and foremost, what is good for the goose should be good for the gander.
25:31Mr. Ansari writes, but Pali, sir, doh haat se bhajti hai.
25:35The speaker has invited the opposition for dialogue, but the opposition believes in my way or the highway.
25:41My way or the highway nahi chalega, point number one.
25:44Point number two, inflation, unemployment, Adani, Manipur, Ramandir, Pegasus, PAA, VOTS, Article 370, SIR, vote choni.
25:54On all these issues, the government was willing for a discussion, but Rahul Gandhi was MIA, missing in action.
26:01Point number three, do you remember, last year in Darbhanga, all opposition senior leaders were present ahead of Dihar Assembly election and nare lagaay ge.
26:11Modi teri kabar khud egi. Modi teri maa ki to kabar khud chuki hai.
26:15Not a single opposition leader came out and condemned these incendiary statements.
26:19Just one month back, in JNU, slogans were raised.
26:23Modi teri kabar khud egi. Amitsha JNU ki dharti par teri kabar khud egi.
26:27Rahul Gandhi and Priyanka Badra who have an opinion on everything Anakastan.
26:32They consume semi-call in wholesale.
26:34And I remember that on the 6th of January 2022, when Prime Minister Modi's cavalcade near the Bhatinda sliver was compromised,
26:42the then Congress Chief Minister of Punjab, Charanjit Singh Channil, said,
26:45Aray, Modi ki jaan ko koi khatra nahi hai, ye toh notanki hai, ye toh drame bazi hai.
26:50Jab Modi ji ki jaan ko khatra hota hai, you term that as notanki and drame bazi.
26:56Imran Masood made the boti boti comment.
26:58He was rewarded with a ticket to Saharanpur and he's the sitting MP from Lok Sabha, Saharanpur.
27:03And I want to tell Divya Madarna one thing. Today we have given employment to more than 18 crore people in the last 11 years.
27:11Today India is the world's fourth largest economy. Today the average inflation rate is 1.3%.
27:17Don't just blabber whatever is given to you by way of the so-called...
27:23Okay. But you know, but Sanju Verma, it cuts both ways. It cuts both ways.
27:28People have been rewarded even in your own party. There are examples of Ramesh Biduri ji,
27:33who after saying what he did on the floor of the parliament was awarded with a ticket to fight an election.
27:37So let's, you know, it cuts both ways in politics.
27:40Divya Madarna, I want to bring you back into this conversation.
27:43There was a point that Sanju Verma had raised, which you in fact raised in your submission as well.
27:47And that is, why not a discussion on General Naravaneh's book?
27:52The fact is, what is being contended today, that the LOP, this is by the Treasury benches and the government,
27:58that the LOP is given chance to speak, but he doesn't adhere to rules.
28:02Rules would demand that you cannot quote context out of unpublished material and content.
28:08Now, General Naravaneh has come out and said, my book was never published.
28:17Ma'am, can you hear me?
28:30I can hear you now, Preeti.
28:32Ms. Madarna, can you hear me?
28:34No, it's gone.
28:36Alright, my question is very clear, because you say that the opposition is not allowed,
28:40leader of opposition is not allowed to speak.
28:43Now, the government says he is allowed to speak, but he has to follow rules.
28:47In the context of General Naravaneh's book, now it seems General Naravaneh has come out
28:53and said that his book was never published.
28:55So, this is against the rule in Parliament to quote content out of context of unpublished material.
29:02It was also published in a magazine, expert, that he was reading it out from.
29:11It's always available on the Amazon.
29:14Mr. Gandhi did show that book in the premises of the Parliament.
29:20But here is, Preeti, it can't be my rules and your rules.
29:23So, there are different rules for the BJP and there are different rules for the opposition.
29:27That's how it's not going to work out.
29:29You know, we need a healthy debate here.
29:31Nishikan Dube is allowed to carry a full bag of books and derogatory comments for two prime ministers.
29:37That is okay.
29:38But if Rahul Gandhiji wants to ask the questions regarding serious border issues, security issues
29:44of this nation, then that's not called for.
29:47Then the laws happen to change.
29:49My colleague here on this panel, Sanju Varma, was saying that you must read and come.
29:55Well, you will not be able to judge me what I read and come.
29:58But what about the 45% unemployment rate that's gone highest so far?
30:05But we're not going to talk about it.
30:06When we talk about budget, it is people's money.
30:09It should be discussed.
30:10Why can't we discuss the budget here?
30:12Nishikan Dube should be allowed to speak.
30:14And Rahul Gandhi should not be allowed to speak.
30:16So we are here, you want to, and she was saying that we have series of topics that she said
30:21we've all debated on.
30:23Well, let me tell you, Priyanka Gandhiji had said that they wanted a condition that they
30:28had kept, that one day maatram pe debate hum tab karayenge, usko maniye, tab hum chunav
30:34sudhar pe debate karayenge.
30:35Aap na barter system karna chahate hain parlement me.
30:38Hum koi narrative set karna chahate hain, BJP ek narrative set karna chahate hain.
30:41Uske according agar opposition play karaygi, to it's okay.
30:44Otherwise, it's my way or the highway.
30:46So I think the parliament is larger, Jack.
30:50The PM is hiding behind the speaker.
30:53The speaker is playing out the BJP agenda.
30:56I think the amount of money that's been spent to run the parliament, it is important to discuss
31:01the cost of living, unemployment.
31:03It is important to discuss janta ke muddoh se hume discuss karna padega jo janta ko...
31:10Ma'am, your time is up.
31:13I appreciate all three of you for joining us.
31:14Thank you for taking the time out.
31:17The union budget has drawn fire from the armed forces fraternity after it ended income tax
31:23exemption on disability pension for soldiers who retire after completing their full tenure.
31:29Under the new rule, only personnel relieved from service due to injury or illness will get tax relief.
31:37Those who superannuate despite carrying service-related disabilities will now be taxed.
31:44That means soldiers who served till retirement, even after being injured in uniform, are now in the tax net.
31:51Veterans say the impact is massive.
31:53Among retiring officers, nearly 38% draw disability pension.
31:59Of them, over 97% superannuated and will now lose the exemption.
32:05The numbers are starker among jawans.
32:07Of nearly 48,000 disability pensioners.
32:10Over 29,000 superannuated soldiers will now be taxed, nearly 60% affected.
32:16Veterans have slammed the move, calling it unfair, discriminatory and damaging to morale.
32:22I have failed to understand why the government has woken up after 60 years once a concession or whatever is given cannot and should not be withdrawn.
32:51From the battlefield to the balance sheet, veterans ask a pointed question.
32:57Is this fiscal reform or a tax on valour?
33:02Bureau Report, India Today.
33:04India's disease burden is observed to be shifting towards non-communicable disease.
33:08Before we cut across to our guest this evening, I want to bring in senior journalist, someone who's covered the armed forces for a very long time, my colleague Sandeep Unethan.
33:20Sandeep, you know, for the larger understanding of our audience, what does this really mean and why has the financial bill this time come out?
33:27Which, you know, by cutting disability pension on one class of soldiers, you've created two classes of wounded soldiers.
33:36Well, absolutely, Preeti.
33:38Well, you know, just to clarify, there have been two classes of disabled soldiers always.
33:42There is the one category is the war wounded soldiers who there is no change in their status.
33:48They will continue to draw pension and disability pension.
33:52They don't pay income tax on that.
33:54The other category is the soldiers who continue in service.
33:58They complete their service and then they get a disability pension.
34:02The tax is the exemption that was given to them until now.
34:06That has been removed.
34:07And that is what is creating this controversy.
34:10And it's, you know, it has inflamed a lot of, you know, sentiments across the country, the three million veteran community across the country.
34:19Because what you've done is you've actually aggravated this division that exists.
34:24These two categories of soldiers, the second category who had no option but to continue in service, those, that category has been, is being seen as unfairly targeted.
34:34You know, for the misuse of this by a few people, and there have been cases in the past of a few people, veterans who have misused that.
34:45But, you know, for those exemptions, for those, you know, those, shall we say, black sheep, the rest of the community is being targeted.
34:53That's what the feeling is, Preeti.
34:55All right, Sandeep, thank you, you know, for joining us and explaining it for the benefit of our viewers.
35:05I'm joined right now by General VP Malik, former Army Chief.
35:08Thank you, sir, for taking the time out and joining us this evening.
35:11It's very important, sir, for, you know, someone like you to make our citizens understand on what it really does or a move like this does to the morale of our men in uniform.
35:21Good evening, Preeti, and thank you for getting me on the panel.
35:27You know, we are talking about withdrawal of income tax concession on disability pension of soldiers who either during peace or war get wounded.
35:36And that is being withdrawn if they continue to serve till the end of their service.
35:42Now, firstly, when a person, a soldier is permitted to continue in service, he has to go through a medical examination.
35:52And it is the medical board which decides whether he should continue or he should not continue.
35:57If he is to continue, they bring down his category, medical category, and they put down some restriction that, look, you may not serve in high altitude, things of that nature.
36:08But he is permitted to carry on with service.
36:12Now, I can also tell you that we have a large number of officers who have risen to the highest ranks after they have been wounded.
36:21And they were permitted to carry on with the service.
36:25Like we had Sam Manikshaw, he got seriously wounded, but he retired as a field marshal.
36:31Then you had General Tappi Raina, who got wounded, he lost his eye, but he became an army chief.
36:37And even recently, you had General Pankaj Joshi, General Ian Cardozo, who was a bravery award winner.
36:48You had Vijay Obray, who became vice chief of the army staff.
36:52So, you know, if they continue in service, we can make use of their talent, and the service also benefits.
37:01Now, why they have suddenly reduced this, brought this new rule, I cannot understand, because there is no justification given for that.
37:12You know, and I personally feel that it is totally unjustified, totally unborn.
37:17General Malik, you know, the argument is, sir, the argument is by the government that it has been misused by certain army personnel.
37:24That seems to be the premise of discontinuing it.
37:27Is there any example given to us that some people have misused it?
37:33That is one.
37:34No example is given there yet.
37:37Second thing is that if it has been misused, it is the task of the army headquarters, service headquarters, and the medical director to correct this whole thing.
37:46How should a bureaucrat come into that?
37:48You see, a person who is permitted to, allowed to come down in the category, and asked to board out, asked to be boarded out, or to continue, it is the job of the medical board and the service headquarters.
38:04They are the ones to decide it.
38:06I can't understand why the Ministry of Defense and Ministry of Finance for all these people.
38:12They should take a decision.
38:13Today, we are spending 1.71 lakh crores on our pension.
38:19You tell me how much benefit will they get, how much saving of this money will be there.
38:25On the other hand, you have hit their dignity, you have created this morale problem all over the place, and there is absolutely just no example given of people who have been misusing that.
38:40And as I said, misuse is a matter of discipline, which has to be sorted out by the service headquarters and the medical board if they are involved in that.
38:49General Malik, I just want to ask you one question, sir, you know, and because the ethos of the armed forces has always rested on the principle that you will put your life on the line no matter what, and you will be taken care of.
39:07And that's, you know, belief has been shaken.
39:12Yeah, that's right.
39:13You know, as long as a person is serving in the armed forces, he will continue to risk his life, because he will continue to do his duty to the best of his ability.
39:25And why should he be punished after he retires?
39:30You see, people, some people who have been, who are boarded out, they will continue to have this concession.
39:36But this is, this clause is now applicable to those who continue to finish their service, and then they will have to pay income tax on the disability pension that they get.
39:48So I cannot understand the rationale behind it.
39:52And as far as the service part is concerned, I mean, as I said, you have hit the dignity of an officer or a javan who continues to serve in service till the end of his tenure.
40:02And that, I think, is totally unjustified.
40:06Thank you, sir.
40:11Thank you for taking the time out and joining us and raising your voice, because it's so very important for the likes of you to step up and do this.
40:19I'm joined right now as well by Lieutenant General KJS Dhillon, known very fondly as Tiny Dhillon.
40:24General Dhillon, thank you for joining us, taking the time out, sir.
40:28Do you see any rationale on what we are witnessing today?
40:32Because, you know, with what General Malik also said, all it does is takes away from the morale of the Indian Armed Forces after 60 years to come up with something like this.
40:45There can't seem to be any reasoning or concrete reason behind it.
40:49Good evening, ma'am, and good evening to all your viewers.
40:54Yes, absolutely agree with what General Malik has said.
40:56And I would like to answer your question in two parts.
41:00One is, for the better understanding of the viewers, what exactly is disability pension and why it was there or why it should be there.
41:08And second is this withdrawal.
41:10How will it impact the functioning of the military?
41:13Now, firstly, just adding to what General Malik has already said, disability pension is crucial for supporting a disabled soldier to live his life with dignity and independence.
41:27It's a compensation.
41:29It's not an income.
41:30It has to be understood it's compensation for the injury which he has got while in service, while protecting the motherland, while serving for the nation, which a normal person or a normal citizen is not exposed to the dangers and the hazards.
41:47So that injury which he has received, it is a compensation for that and it's not an income that you tax it.
41:54And secondly, it's compensation is for lifelong impact, which he's going to have physically, mentally, socially, and his inability to earn as a 100% fit person after his retirement to feed his family, to look after his own personal interests.
42:12So we have to recognize that it is a recognition of his sacrifice for the nation.
42:20You know, I'm not using the heavy terms.
42:21I'm making a very impactful statement that this is what this soldier has.
42:27When you, as an officer, when I order a soldier to walk into a minefield and go and check if their mines there or not, do you think if I tell anyone else working in a civil or a government organization to walk into a minefield, he will go?
42:41No.
42:42This soldier goes without questioning my orders or my wisdom.
42:45And when he steps on a mine, he blows off his right or left leg.
42:49And then he continues to serve because he's a josh box.
42:53He's full of life.
42:55He wants to serve the nation.
42:57And he can contribute positively.
42:58General Malik gave examples of people rising to become chiefs, vice chiefs, army commanders.
43:03And then you tax him for that stupidity which he did of walking into a minefield.
43:07I'm calling it stupidity because that is what it is being made out to be.
43:11And another thing, ma'am, the point which you also referred to as misuse.
43:18If a bureaucrat is misusing a vehicle, does it mean we withdraw the vehicles of all the bureaucrats?
43:25If a politician is misusing his position, does it mean we punish all the politicians?
43:30If a person is misusing and you know he's misusing, please go ahead and take a disciplinary action, hang him.
43:40But do not, do not punish the legitimate soldiers who have given their length and life for the nation.
43:48And now I'll tell you how it will impact the military if this is withdrawn.
43:54General Malik talked about it.
43:55There's a medical board where attributability is established.
44:00It is not that anyone who gets injured gets a disability pension.
44:04All the documents, the circumstances, the orders, the duty as to legitimate duty against the enemy, against the terrorist or in the field area.
44:16All those things are checked.
44:18The medical documents are checked and the type of injury is checked.
44:21And then this medical board confirms that this injury is attributable to military service.
44:28Right.
44:29Only then he is given this disability pension, which medical board proceedings are also approved by the competent authority.
44:36It is not that one doctor or one individual can fool the system.
44:39No.
44:40It's a process.
44:41It takes months for a person to be declared attributable, the injury to be declared attributable to military service.
44:48Now, once a person has been declared with the injury attributable to military service,
44:55Now, case of two individuals, same unit, same service bracket, same oppression, same injuries, one goes out.
45:06One says, no, I'm a good soldier.
45:07I want to serve the army and I want to serve the nation.
45:10And this commanding officer and up the chain, everyone says, oh, yes, he's a good soldier.
45:14He's a josh box.
45:15He's an asset.
45:16He's a trained soldier.
45:16Why lose a trained soldier?
45:19We can gainfully utilize him in spite of his injury.
45:22And he continues to serve his full service.
45:26The person who has gone out, he gets the disability pension tax-free.
45:32The person who decides and who willingly opts to serve the nation, his pension is taxed.
45:39Now, that is not fair.
45:40And another point, man, what will happen now?
45:43Like I gave an example, everyone who gets injured will opt for invalidment.
45:50That means he will opt for going out then and there so that he gets the pension, which is tax-free.
45:56And this will impact the army.
45:58We will lose good soldiers.
45:59We will lose willing soldiers.
46:01We will lose soldiers who still has a lot of soldiering in him.
46:04And we will lose a trained soldier.
46:06And this is, if a person has got injured in operations and is trained and is willing and is full of josh, why should we lose him?
46:15Because we are going to tax his pension after he retires, after having completed his service.
46:20It's going to impact the morale, the composition of the army, and the willingness of the soldiers to serve the nation, even after getting injured in a big way.
46:29I think this needs to be corrected straight away.
46:32And I'm very sure the government is going to reverse this decision because it is not in the interest of the nation.
46:37It is not in the interest of serving soldiers.
46:39It's not in the interest of the military.
46:45Well, you're right, sir.
46:46And thank you.
46:46I wish we had more time to discuss this at length.
46:48But thank you for joining us and making that impassioned pitch that the government takes it back because it is about morale, but it's also about dignity.
46:58Dignity of men who put their life on the line for the country.
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