- 6 days ago
NaturallyCurly's Ask a Curl Expert franchise brings leading stylists in the industry together to discuss the latest trends, products, and haircare tips for all textures. NAHA-winning hairstylist Michelle O'Connor and Celebrity hairstylist Tippi Shorter will showcase their texture expertise with a range of tips, guidance, and advice for summer protective styling. This conversation will focus on short and long-term protective styles, scalp care, and using key products like edge control, oil, gel, and custard.
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LifestyleTranscript
00:00Hi, everybody.
00:02I'm Desiree.
00:03I'm your editor from Naturally Curly.
00:05We have the amazing Tippi Shorter here
00:07and the amazing Michelle Carnes.
00:08Give a round of applause, guys.
00:11All right.
00:12Who's ready to talk protective styles?
00:14Let me hear a round of applause.
00:17Let's get into it.
00:19Hello, ladies.
00:20How are we doing today?
00:21Wonderful.
00:22Wonderful.
00:23We will kick it off.
00:24So we are here in the summertime, guys,
00:26and we know that, of course,
00:28we need to wear protective styles.
00:29It can get a little bit hard to do a wash and go,
00:32even though you both are sporting beautiful curls and quolls right now,
00:35and I'm wearing boho braids,
00:36but we know it can be a little hard to kind of keep things going.
00:38Protective styles.
00:39Yes, protective styles indeed.
00:40So let's start off with you, Michelle.
00:42You are a winner of five NHA awards
00:45for both texture and avant-garde, which is no joke.
00:48What has your career been like leading up to these milestones?
00:52Jeez, my career was really trying to,
00:55just on a personal level,
00:57champion for a celebration of texture.
00:59I think for so long, the beauty industry really sat very separated,
01:04where you had so many stylists that weren't well-versed in working with textured hair,
01:09and I really wanted to come in and hit the ground running with someone that really could do anything,
01:14and do anything with any texture, and so my career was with that lens.
01:19So it was always really just the beauty of it, and if I wasn't working on textured hair,
01:24I feel like I always created texture or put texture in it anyway.
01:28So I just think that, like, the possibilities for me have always been endless,
01:32which is why I've done things like avant-garde and sort of styling and pushing the envelope,
01:36and sort of just really having fun with hair and making it show up in places that are not intended for it.
01:42Speaking of, y'all check out her hair tie.
01:45Literally, she is wearing a hair tie right now.
01:47But hair is meant to be everywhere, so we love that.
01:50Tippi, we know celebrities lead some of the latest hair trends,
01:54like the awards show bob while hair talk has put us on to the braided baldy.
01:58What would you say are some of your favorite trending looks right now?
02:01I'm going to say that one of my favorite trends is how the celebrities are really, like, peeling back the curtain, if you will,
02:10and truly showing us their real hair.
02:12You know, we know Beyonce recently showcased her real hair,
02:16and I was like, listen, guys, I've been telling you that's her hair forever.
02:19I had the opportunity of working with her for many years.
02:21So I love, we're seeing Rihanna's natural hair, Tyla, Tinashe, everyone is showing their natural hair.
02:28So I think that is an amazing hair trend.
02:31So not only are they peeling back the layers of the protective styles, which, you know, for these performers,
02:36that's something that's truly needed when they're on stage because you're under the lights, you know,
02:40quick changes and, you know, things like that with music videos and photo shoots.
02:43So natural hair.
02:45And then additionally, the bob.
02:48So you mentioned the award-winning bob, but the bob showing up in a couple of different ways.
02:52So the French bob with the bangs.
02:54Actually, my daughter's in the audience with her cute little French bob and bangs.
02:58And, but then also softening the bob and making it more pixie-like.
03:03And that's actually called a bixie.
03:05So when you've got a pixie bob, it's called a bixie.
03:08So softening the edges of that hard bob and making it a little lighter, a little softer.
03:12So that's a trend that I'm leaning into.
03:14Loving that.
03:15A bixie, a bob and a pixie.
03:17Maybe I'll try that this fall.
03:19I got your, I got your friend.
03:21Hey, don't play.
03:22We'll make that appointment tomorrow.
03:24Michelle, why would you, what would you say are some of the major misconceptions when it comes to natural hair that you would like to debunk?
03:31The very first thing that comes to mind when talking about misconceptions is the fact that it's just really rough hair or really, or hair that is indestructible or hair that can be handled in a way that's aggressive.
03:45That is the biggest misconception.
03:47I see a professional hairstylist going in with harsher chemicals.
03:51I see people approaching it from a care standpoint in terms of how it's brushed, how it's maneuvered with a very sort of heavy hand, rough sort of handling of it.
04:03And I think that's the capacity where it's actually the opposite.
04:06So it requires more delicate hands.
04:09It requires more gentle chemicals.
04:12It requires all of that.
04:13And so that is the biggest misconception in my opinion.
04:16Fantastic answer.
04:19Tippi, what would you say is your idea of the biggest misconception that we should be debunking about natural hair care?
04:24I would say that our, so I had a young lady come into the salon and she's like, is it okay if I, you know, record you?
04:35And so I spoke to her and I said, hey, you know, your hair is getting dry.
04:39I need to put water on it.
04:41And she's like, oh yeah, I moisturize my hair with water all the time.
04:44I'm like, hair, water's not moisture.
04:46You're not moisturizing your hair with water.
04:48You're wetting your hair so it's an easier process for the moisture to be accepted into your hair.
04:53So I think that's probably a really huge misconception.
04:56It's really big on YouTube.
04:58It's really big on Instagram and TikTok.
05:00People thinking that, you know, I just wet my hair every morning.
05:03Well, actually when it dries, it evaporates.
05:05And so you're actually just allowing your hair to become drier daily if you're not following it up with any type of moisture product.
05:11Fantastic.
05:12And I agree.
05:13If we all need that reminder, water is for wetting.
05:16It is not for moisture, guys.
05:17It is not the only thing you should be using.
05:19So let's dive into scalp care.
05:21And I want to hear all about it because I know that I'm on day five of braids and I'm between an itch and a pat right now.
05:28If we all know what that feels like.
05:30Tippi, tell us why this is so important as well as some of your top tips for keeping a scalp healthy.
05:36Especially right now when it's hot, it's humid, it's sweaty, and itching is what I'm fighting to do at this very moment.
05:42Absolutely.
05:43So I think a lot of people forget that our scalp is skin and it is just like skin that's on our face.
05:49So we need to treat it as such.
05:51It's exfoliating.
05:52It needs hydration.
05:54It needs all the love and care we give our face.
05:57And perhaps sometimes it might even need a primer.
05:59So I am a firm believer that you, you know, we fall into routines and our scalp gets into routines.
06:04So if you're someone like I, for example, shampoo my hair or cleanse my hair twice a week.
06:09If I wear braids and I go longer than that twice a week, my scalp is on fire.
06:13So I do need to make sure that in that instance, I'm still, you know, if I'm used to doing it every two or three days, I still need to apply some sort of dental cleanser to it.
06:22You know, something that, maybe not abrasive, but something that just, you know, gently hydrates, gently lightly cleanses.
06:28Whether that's running a little sea breeze through, running a little ACV through, something like that.
06:33You know, and there's so many brands now that have like shampoo-less scalp cleansers.
06:38So things like that would work, but we have, whatever you, whatever your process or whatever your cleansing routine, whatever you're used to, even if you've got a protective style, you still need to lean into how many times you're doing that per month or per week.
06:52Beautiful. Love that.
06:53Michelle, speaking once again regarding scalp care.
06:56So we are seeing a new kind of wave of scalp education that's been happening in the past roughly two years post-COVID, right?
07:04Some people are wanting to know how they can be better taking care of their scalps as it pertains to protective styles and longevity of a style.
07:12So we have constant conversations two weeks, three weeks, four weeks, six weeks.
07:17How long should someone be keeping a protective style and as to not create any issues with their scalp?
07:22Yeah, I would not push a protective style.
07:26If we're talking something like box braids, something that takes a long time.
07:30I feel like six weeks, six to eight is that window where anything pushed past that.
07:35But that doesn't mean you're not touching the scalp.
07:37Like Tippi said, there's sea breeze.
07:39There's washing braids.
07:40You know, if you're talking about shape shifting where you've taken your natural texture and now you're wearing like maybe a silk press, I would say don't go longer than two weeks.
07:50Like you have to wash your hair.
07:52You have, that's the bottom line.
07:54Like you have to wash your hair.
07:55And so unfortunately, sometimes we shy away from that because we know it's a process of start to finish.
08:02But really think about what's underneath and not cover it up at the expense of your scalp being degraded.
08:09So that's kind of how I feel about that.
08:13And can I add something to that also?
08:15Absolutely.
08:16Really kind of touching on the point of Michelle talking about having to shampoo your hair.
08:20In the length of time, I've had clients come into the salon, you know, I just came out of braids six weeks and oh my gosh, my hair sheds so much.
08:27I always want to remind everyone that our hair sheds every single day.
08:31So if your hair is in a protective style, you know, you could lose up to 100 strands a day.
08:35But keep in mind, those strands are growing back.
08:37So if you've got that multiplied by six weeks, that's how much hair you're going to lose when you do take those braids down.
08:43So don't be alarmed if your hair is shedding.
08:46It's just because you haven't released all of that hair.
08:48And you have to shampoo it because if you don't release it, then if locks aren't something you're looking for, you could get locks.
08:55Unintentionally getting locks.
08:57Unintentionally.
08:58Speaking of, once again, protective styles and just discussing kind of, we discussed some of the things that you should be doing to,
09:04better take care of it, but what are the benefits of it?
09:07For those who maybe are new, I see some naturalistas out there in the audience.
09:10I see some beautiful curls and coils and waves and maybe they haven't tried it.
09:13I see some locks, my social manager right there killing the twist.
09:17But if you've never done it before, what are the benefits?
09:20Why should I even consider getting a protective style?
09:23Well, the main benefit is giving your hair a break.
09:27You know, it's no mystery that our hair is delicate, as I mentioned earlier.
09:32All the curves, all the bends, equal weak points.
09:35Right?
09:36So even something as simple as taking a brush and brushing through it, it minimizes the integrity of the hair.
09:42So if you're doing that on a daily basis, every day, ponytail, another new fresh dope stop, like you're actually putting wear and tear on your hair.
09:51So something that's protective, that gives your hair a break, is actually good for us that have texture in our hair.
09:58It allows your hair to rest.
09:59It allows it to sort of just step away from just the simple things of laying on a pillow and tossing and turning.
10:07And, like, it's just covered, it's protected, and it gives your hair a chance to just sort of reboot, if you will, or just kind of rest and just have strength to it.
10:19Yeah.
10:20And if I could add, I see my Brady Bunch.
10:22You're part of the Brady Bunch.
10:23Who else is part of the Brady Bunch in this audience?
10:25Got your braids for this, right?
10:26We knew we were coming down here, we knew it was going to be hot, and we knew we didn't want to have to fuss with our hair.
10:31Well, we're fussing with our hair because that's what we do every day.
10:34But a lot of us don't want to have to worry about, oh, now I have to put a blow dryer on it, now I have to put a flat iron on it today, or for the next four days or five days.
10:42So choosing how you wear your protective styles just so you don't exacerbate, you know, heat damage, environmental damage, things like that.
10:50You know, I'm a huge, big fan of protective styles, but I want to add that protective styles mean you're protecting your hair, your scalp, your hairline.
10:59So that doesn't mean you're slathering tons of gel.
11:01It doesn't mean you're slathering tons of glue.
11:03It doesn't mean you're slathering those things.
11:05It means you're truly protecting your hair.
11:07Love that.
11:08Protection, health is wealth.
11:09And both of you discussed, obviously, different types of ways that we should be considering self-care and rest.
11:15I love the idea that you said, Michelle, about how we need to think about our hair being delicate.
11:20Aggression is not the key for helping take care of our different textures.
11:24It's being delicate with it as it should be.
11:27Can I just add that it really is a double-edged sword because we are the hair chameleons of the world, right?
11:34Like, we literally are queens and kings of changing our hair, but we have to roll back a little bit.
11:40Because with that, we're having broken hair.
11:43We're having hair that doesn't reach its full potential from a growth perspective.
11:47We're having scalp issues.
11:48We're having hair loss.
11:49We're having hair thinning.
11:50So all of that attention that we're paying to scalp care and not realizing that that also plays a role in the density of your hair.
11:58Like your follicle actually not being healthy, therefore your hair getting thinner because the strand growing out of it becomes skinnier.
12:05We have to connect these dots and realize that it all works together.
12:09It's education.
12:10It's understanding what you're doing.
12:11It's having a gentle hand.
12:13It's embracing protective styles.
12:15I love the braided baldy that everybody is embracing right now.
12:19That's a protective style.
12:20And it goes to what Tippy was saying, how it's this celebration of showing like your hair.
12:26Because not everybody has hair added to that.
12:28You know, that's like literally you're out there.
12:30So, yeah.
12:31Just wanted to add that.
12:32Love that.
12:33We're discussing obviously the scalp care in itself.
12:37Can you recommend products to maintain and prevent dryness, particularly in hot and humid climates?
12:42The shelf space, to say the least, is very crowded right now.
12:45So whether you're new, whether you're an expert, whether you are an avant-garde of natural hair, it can be overwhelming when you're shopping trying to figure out what is good, what should I be putting on my scalp right now.
12:55So what can we do to prevent dryness?
12:58Preventing dryness, like Tippy said, is really going to come from a place of making sure that you're washing your hair.
13:05Water is what is our hydration source, right?
13:09We drink water, we hydrate our body.
13:11We put water on our hair, we hydrate our hair.
13:13What happens, like she said, is water evaporates.
13:16You have nothing suspending that hydration and adding moisture to that.
13:21So starting with a good cleansing and conditioning routine.
13:24Matrix has a product called Food for Soft that has an ingredient called hyaluronic acid.
13:31And hyaluronic acid is sort of this like buzzword in the world of skin and hair right now where there's a lot of talk about sort of how hyaluronic acts as this ingredient that holds moisture in the hair.
13:44It's also anti-aging.
13:46It also, long beyond the time that you actually wash your hair, it's going to continue to work for your hair and your scalp.
13:53And so pay attention to what your products are doing for you and what those ingredients are because it's going to tell you, like, is this beneficial or is this just something that's buzzy?
14:02So it's called Food for Soft.
14:04Yeah.
14:05And so I'd love to add that Mizani has a product called Wonder Crown.
14:08So it's actually a pre-shampoo cleanser.
14:11You're familiar with it.
14:12I tell people when I'm using it on them, I said, you have ever seen those commercials, the bathtub commercials where they, you know, they spray the foam and the bubbles kind of just start moving on their own.
14:21Like you literally feel that in the scalp.
14:23So it's really fantastic for protective styles when you just want to make sure your scalp is getting cleansed without a lot of agitation.
14:29Because if I tried to shampoo your hair over braids, we're going to get frizz, we're going to get all the agitation, right?
14:35So this particular product, the Wonder Crown, actually, it almost feels like the bubbles are cleansing on their own.
14:41And then all you do is rinse your head under a shower.
14:43And that actually has sativa in it and it truly works on the hair amazingly.
14:48Love that.
14:49You discussed a little bit ago regarding hair shedding and hair loss.
14:53And while that is something to embrace and not be scared of, because as you said, it happens on the daily regardless, what is the best way to prevent hair loss?
15:00Because, you know, a lot of us are trying to keep our length.
15:02A lot of us are trying to hold on to our follicles any way we can when you're transitioning from one perspective style to another.
15:09Obviously, we all have different textures.
15:11Some people can go back to back to back.
15:13Some people do it once a season.
15:15But if you are a person that likes to go from cornrows to box spades to Fulani braids to boho braids, and that's just your jam, how can you prevent hair loss?
15:24I'm going to say you need a break.
15:25I mean, as much as I would love to say I can go from Mexico to Puerto Rico to Venice, I'm going to need a break.
15:33Right?
15:34So I can do all those fun things, but I need to, like, sit down for a minute.
15:38So 48 hours at the least.
15:42Give your hair 48 hours to just breathe without being stretched, pulled, bent, you know, shellacked, any of those things.
15:50So if you have the ability to give yourself 48 hours in between those transitional styles, I highly recommend and suggest that.
15:58Give yourself a great deep conditioning treatment.
16:01I'm a huge fan of steam treatments in Salon.
16:04We do have a steamer at the bowl and even by our processing center.
16:08But honestly, you all could buy the little clothes steamer and wrap a towel around your head and just, you know, add some steam to it just even with the little handheld clothes steamer.
16:17But the steamer really opens up the cuticle and allows that mass to truly get in and penetrate the strands to allow it to do what it does versus just sitting on top.
16:26So I would say just make sure you give your hair a break.
16:29I think that there are just no ends of protective styles and just styles that we love in general.
16:35I agree with Tippi, like you have to give your hair a break.
16:38And I think we can't be chasing these styles at the cost of not loving your own hair.
16:44Like the things that we do to our hair should never be because you have to.
16:48It should be because you want to.
16:50If you want to wear a lace front, if you want to wear braids, if you want to wear a braided belt.
16:54Like it should be something that is an accessory, something you have fun with.
16:58But not at the cost of your own hair.
17:00When it becomes at the cost of your own hair where you no longer love your own hair, you can no longer wear your own hair.
17:04It's not worth it anymore.
17:07So take care of the hair that you actually have so that way it's not something that you have to do.
17:14It's something that you enjoy doing.
17:16Love that.
17:17Love that.
17:19In regards to different textures, we're discussing obviously there's different ones and it can pertain to your protective styles as well.
17:25We're seeing a lot of trending conversations happening right now around natural hair maintenance, protective style maintenance, texturism.
17:31What tips can you give to someone learning how to love their natural hair?
17:35Both of you.
17:37That's a very fair, it's a very honest question.
17:40There is texturism.
17:42We didn't create it.
17:44It was thrust upon us.
17:46And so because of that, we have to sort of recalibrate how we think about beauty.
17:53It's beauty standards.
17:54And I think Tippi and I can speak for what we do as professionals from our advantage point.
18:00And it's really the imagery and the type of things that we're putting out there.
18:04So if you are seeing beautiful women that have type 4C hair that are being elevated and put on billboards and skimming through magazines and you're seeing their hair being celebrated.
18:15Now all of the people that are out there receiving these in sight and seeing these imagery will start to see themselves and not only think that only one type of hair is celebrated, one type of beauty standard exists.
18:29It really falls down to being able to see yourself.
18:33And that is how we play our role in that.
18:35Making sure that we're advocating for models that have all texture.
18:38That we're showing all of those different textures.
18:40Even in positions or styles that the person leading the shoot might not be comfortable with.
18:47Being able to say, no, this is really like a beautiful style.
18:51This might be ethnic to you.
18:53But this is a really beautiful style and this is going to elevate and inspire someone.
18:57So it's being an advocate in rooms where you might not have the control to change what the campaign might be.
19:04But to be able to advocate for all types of hair on those projects.
19:10Yeah.
19:11Love that. Thank you.
19:12Yeah, and I'm going to add too, influencers are incredibly important.
19:17You know, once upon a time I had a love-hate relationship with, you know, influencers are like, this is my hair and this is how I do it.
19:23And everyone is like, I saw this girl, her hair.
19:25But I think that's so important because to Michelle's point, a lot of times, you know, we do campaigns where, you know, a lot of times we're not able to pick our models.
19:34But we try to, you know, we do the best we can with what we work with.
19:36And when we do have the opportunities to pick our models, we are making sure we are creating as diverse visuals as possible.
19:42But I love that there are people who have taken the onus and control of their own hair, all textures, and are showing it every day on YouTube through social media and all those things.
19:51So having those influences, I think, are truly important as well.
19:55Beautiful. And y'all get to see the creations from start to finish.
19:58Y'all have worked with amazing talent.
20:00Both of you have a fantastic portfolio.
20:02Would you say that social media can create a positive or negative effect on the way that we are seeing hair on screen?
20:12Both.
20:13I was going to say the same. It does both.
20:15So positive in the sense that we are seeing more people taking onus and control of their own beauty and putting it out how they want to, you know, appear in the world.
20:24From a professional hairstylist negative because I could have a client come in and say, hey, I follow this girl.
20:31My hair looks like hers.
20:33And she said to use this, this, this, and this, and this.
20:36And I use this, this, this, and this.
20:38And none of it worked for me.
20:39I'm like, that's because you don't have the same hair.
20:41You know, she's a master at working at her hair.
20:45She's mastered her hair.
20:46And so the one thing I would say is that it's been a huge challenge for a lot of stylists because a lot of people come in like,
20:52this girl on YouTube said, and I'm like, ah, you know, yes, she said it because she works on her hair every day.
20:57I work on 20 different types of curls daily.
21:00So it's been a challenge for the professional hairstylist.
21:05Wow.
21:06Do you have anything you want to add?
21:07Yeah, I think what I've seen is sometimes the villainization of ingredients that might be in products where someone will run with something like,
21:15no sulfates or no, you know, whatever the thing is that we're not supposed to like anymore, right?
21:21And we understand from a professional perspective that there are certain things that are required and needed inside hair products so that it can have a performance ability.
21:30And so sometimes we're kind of just watching the noise and the narrative going back and forth and saying, oh, but you know what?
21:37You do need to clarify.
21:38Clarifying is really going to take everything off of your hair, but then you're going to put it back in.
21:43So don't be afraid to do the things that are necessary, but we just need to kind of make sure that the education is following up along with it.
21:50And you both are leaders in education, which is what we love.
21:54In keeping to that, last question, what would you say is anything that you're seeing on social media right now that you're like,
22:00when I hear this outside of clarifying or sulfates that you're like, ah, like we like, please do the opposite of what you're hearing on social media?
22:10I'll start.
22:11You know, I use stuff, you know, I go to the grocery store and I buy olive oil.
22:18I buy coconut oil.
22:19I buy these molecules and these oils are so thick and heavy that all it's doing is sitting on the hair.
22:25So, you know, you really have to find an oil that is formulated to be a hair oil because the molecules are so tiny that they actually penetrate the strand.
22:36You know, I could put a whole handful of oil in my hair, but you won't feel it, but my hair will be healthier, plumper, shinier.
22:44Versus if I go to the grocery store and buy any of those oils that are very popular on social media,
22:50I'm, my hair is going to look flat.
22:52It's going to look stiff because those are simply just sitting on top of my hair.
22:56So I would say like lean more into the products that are definitively designed for hair versus cooking.
23:03Love that.
23:04Okay. I'm ready now.
23:05I would say the thing that I'm seeing that I'm like, no, don't do that is when I see people sort of become kitchen beauticians and they're doing things like chemicals and color.
23:17And Tippi and I are both like colorists.
23:20And when we like kind of look at some of the things that people are trying to do in like one day and then they're pulling their hair out,
23:25like it's like coming out in clumps, we're like, please don't do that.
23:28Please don't play around with bleach and don't play around with hair color and then trying to change it the next day and then think that you can do something else again next week.
23:36Like, please leave that in the hands of the professional and trims and cutting like some of the more beyond maintenance beyond your day to day maintenance.
23:44I would say find yourself a good hairdresser and entrust your hair in their hands.
23:49They will take good care of you.
23:51Thank you so much, ladies.
23:52Thank you all for being here.
23:54As it pertains to education, definitely follow both these ladies on their social media.
23:57Visit us at our NaturallyCurly booth or NaturallyCurly.com and we have a list of 25 salons you should be visiting.
24:03We have braiders.
24:04We have all the things.
24:05So if you need your texture education, we got you covered.
24:07Thank you, guys.
24:08Thank you, guys.
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