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00:00Hi, y'all doing? I'm Corey Murray, Deputy Editor at Essence, and I want to thank you all so much
00:08for braving not only COVID, but also the rain, cloudy days to be a part of our annual fashion
00:17house. I'm really excited because as I've stepped into the role leading Essence editorial, this is
00:24sort of my first fashion week as a big wig, so I'm excited. I've been going to some shows, but I'm
00:33really, really excited about being here and having this conversation because our beautiful September
00:39issue is on newsstands right now with Megan Thee Stallion, Hot Girl Summer. Keep it going.
00:45But what I love about it is we have a wonderful piece in there talking about the business of black
00:50fashion, so I'm really excited to be a part, to be moderating this panel with these legendary
00:56legends who we're going to really deep dive about it, you know, really going from the past and present.
01:03So without further ado, I would like to welcome, I would stand, but my feet hurt, but Brandice Daniel,
01:12you are, let me get you correct, you are the Harlem Fashion Row's founder and CEO, and that show you
01:19just put on the other night. Y'all, come on. We're going to talk about it. We're going to talk about
01:25it. I don't, y'all, we're going to get into this. Former male model turned fragrance mastermind. Y'all,
01:36first of all, all right, all right, let me tell your name. It's Chris Collins, but how many black
01:41black people do y'all know work in fragrance? Okay, here we go. We got one. We got one.
01:48And Mr. Groovy Lou, you, first of all, I realize I've seen you around forever,
01:54and then doing my due diligence and research, I bow down to you. I mean, Nipsey Hussle, Biggie Smalls,
02:02Sean Puffy Combs, fashion visionary and aficionado. Okay, so anyway, all right, I'm going to stop
02:10fangirling out. Oh, thank you. You're welcome. So the first, so let's get into this. So much like
02:20the rest of the world today, the fashion landscape is ever changing. When you think about how black
02:25culture has influenced the fashion world, what are some things that have remained constant and true
02:30to what our culture brings to that space? And Brandice, we're going to start with you.
02:35Yeah. When you really look at the landscape of our country and you think about the history of
02:41fashion design, we were at the forefront of that. So even on plantations, if you go back that far,
02:49there were black people who were actually creating dresses for society women and not just any dresses,
02:55they were creating couture. So I have a young woman right now researching and finding out who is the
03:03oldest black designer on record or the oldest woman, I'm sorry, a female designer on record for this
03:10country. And right now it's coming up as a black woman. So we're still... You mean not, you're not
03:16researching the first black, the first woman. First woman. Wow. Okay. And so we have a history that is so
03:23rich in this country, but it's been overlooked and it's been disregarded. And what they do is they
03:30give us a title of dressmaker. That was a title that was given to so many people was dressmaker.
03:35They weren't given the title of designer. Yeah. So really we are the foundation of the fashion and
03:42design worlds in America. And so many of us don't realize that. All right. Chris.
03:49Yeah. So when I started in fashion back in 96, I was modeling for Ralph Lauren. I didn't know it
04:02would take me through a 20 year journey working with them and for them, but there was so much that
04:09I saw that I knew needed to change within the fashion industry. Yeah. How quickly did you see
04:15what needed to change? Say that again? How quickly did you see what needed to change?
04:20There was always like rumblings going on that there needed to be some things that needed to
04:25change within the industry. But Ralph Lauren, who, you know, to most designer standards
04:32was more diverse than most. And it still wasn't enough. I mean, we used, you know, people of color,
04:40people of Asian descent, people of Native American descent, but it still wasn't enough because I
04:45would always be the only person of color on the shoot when there were always like 20, you know,
04:53models or what have you. So I think things have gotten better up to this point. At least I hope so.
05:00Mm-hmm. For what I could see, like from the ads that I see, things have gotten better. But I felt like
05:07we need trailblazers like, you know, Groovy and Brandeis and myself, because there's not a whole lot
05:16of people in the industry who are really out there trying to make it happen. And we have to make room
05:22for those behind us to have opportunity. Yeah. That's the one thing I tell all the retailers
05:27that I work with, like Sephora and Neiman's and Bergdorf. I said, just give me the opportunity to
05:33show you what, you know, our brands could do. And Kimberly can attest to it. I mean, she has an
05:39amazing boutique in Harlem called Muse Experience, which I think you also check out. You know, we always
05:45got to work three times harder and push 10 times harder. So I do see that there is a change
05:50happening, but we still got a long way to go. Groovy, what are some changes that you've seen
05:56and what's remained constant? Well, the changes I've seen lately is that more young black male
06:03and female are coming out of their houses more with their styles and designs and not going to the
06:10big corporation these days. Social media is playing a major part in everything. Yeah. And it helps them
06:16get their styles and designs across to the world and the country that in our times we had to go out
06:24and make it happen. We had to go into Chicago. We had to go into Brooklyn. We had to go into Atlanta
06:31and show what we can do and what we were. So I just think nowadays from us running around,
06:41setting it off is getting better that we are like buying black and celebrating each other more days.
06:51I grew up chasing the Willie Ware Smiths and Carl Caniz and April Walker's and the Tony Shelman's all black
07:00designers. Like I felt like I had a chance to reach them instead of the Tommies and the Polos and these
07:07guys. So that's one thing that I did, like reach out to my black designers and see if I can assist
07:15them or how I can work with them. And that's what helped me build. Okay. And what were, do you guys
07:21have any specific things that you witnessed as you were coming up that, that unfortunately may still
07:28be happening today when it comes to diversity behind the scenes?
07:34There is still less than about one to 2% of designers that are in major department stores that are designers
07:42of color. That hasn't changed since I started. That same statistic has remained. There is more now, but it still
07:49hasn't moved the needle a ton. And then when you go inside of retailers and go inside of brands, they don't even
07:56want me to walk on their design floor. You know, I've had several brands go, Brandis, I'm like, let me see
08:01your design floor. Nope. We're not taking, I'm so sorry. We're not taking you there. And, and, and they
08:05will tell me, Brandis, we're embarrassed to take you there because we know that you're going to be tracking
08:10and we don't have enough black designers. So that's the thing that, you know, it was true 14 years ago when
08:17I started Holmes Fashion Row and it's still true now. And I will say now because of the last year, brands are now
08:24trying to figure out like, how do I change that quickly? Um, but it's, it's still, still a struggle and a battle
08:32within in-house and also, you know, in our multi, uh, vendor retailers. What about you in the fragrance space? I think
08:40last year when all the social unrest was happening, it brought like a spotlight on black designers, black creators in
08:49general. And then all of a sudden you saw all these brands come out of the woodwork and being
08:55spotlighted when we were already here. It was a shame that it took that to actually say, now look
09:02at us. Um, but we were already there. I think, um, there was a friend of mine who you all know, Miss
09:10Julie, she did something on social media where she highlighted about 200 black owned beauty brands.
09:15Yeah. And I had no idea that, that there were that many, but you know, the opportunity presented
09:23itself. And I think that we need to take advantage of it, even though it was unfortunate the way that
09:27it happened. But, um, again, we still have a long way to go, but at least now these brands are being
09:33spotlighted. Um, I'm sure that there are a lot of retailers that have given me a chance because
09:39they know that they have to start giving us chances to perform, um, and to, to, to compete and, you
09:48know, and show what we have, but you know, it's not easy, but we have to fight. Groovy, would you say the
09:55work that you've done with the younger generation has been easier given the pathway you, you paved?
10:01I want to say easier. Um, it's just that the younger generation, they know what they want a little
10:09more. Like, you know what I mean? They, they like, they're not listening to like, it's no, um, blueprint
10:17for them. They just do them. They're having fun with it. They're being creative with it and take it.
10:23This is what it is. You either love us or you leave us alone. And, um, that's something that we have to
10:30work on as being older. We have to listen more to the youngins because it's their world. Like,
10:36you know what I mean? We had our chance when we was young, we was fighting, kicking down the doors,
10:41having people listen to us and giving great ideas. And now the youngins come with their energy and
10:47their swag and we think they wild, but this is their time. So we have to listen and help and give
10:54information and guide them as we can. So they'll be in a better place as well for the next to come
11:01after them. All right. Cool. Thank you for that. I mean, that's exactly what I was kind of alluding
11:05to. Like being the trailblazer, you need the machete going through the woods, but leave the path open for
11:12the ones that are behind us, the younger generation that are trying to create in the space that they
11:16didn't think they could possibly create. There are very few black perfumers, uh, art designers,
11:25um, you know, brand owners and beauty, but at least now they see me or they see Brandy, so they see
11:32Groovy, they say, Oh, well, this is possible. And then they can do, they can come up.
11:36Because if I could do it, anybody can do it.
11:38Yeah. I give thanks. Fashion saved my life and, and many others around me. Yeah. That's right.
11:46And you take a very spiritual approach. You're not traditional.
11:50Start first with everything. You know, we give thanks for that breath. Without that,
11:54we wouldn't be able to do anything. So that's first. And then we go do what we do.
11:59Okay. Now, Brandy, what was the impetus for you to start Harlem Fashion Row 14 years ago?
12:06What was it? And then how have you seen it evolve? And tell us how you took over the streets of
12:13Harlem. Like you've always do it, but you, a literal street this time.
12:17Yeah. So often we have ideas and sometimes we have ideas and we like wake up and think about
12:23that idea and then we dream about it and then we're talking about it. Um, and that's what it was
12:29for Harlem Fashion Row. So I went to a fashion show in Brooklyn. I had this idea that I really couldn't
12:33let go of. And I was like, I have to move on this. And so we did the first event in 2007.
12:38We featured, there were all of these amazing boutiques, black owned boutiques that were
12:42popping up in Harlem, like within two or three blocks of where I was living. And so we featured
12:47them. And then the second year I was looking for black designers and I couldn't find any.
12:51And that was like, okay. I feel like sometimes like I started with passion and then I met a problem.
12:57And I feel like sometimes when passion and problem meet, that's really where you find your purpose.
13:01And that's what it was for me. Um, and then I knew, okay, I don't know like who I am to
13:06be doing this because I'm from Memphis. I don't have any fashion connections, but let me do what
13:10I can. And that was really the start of Harlem Fashion Row. Wait, I just realized you said you
13:15had no fashion connections. No. In the beginning I had none, zero. So it was, you know, but what I
13:22would do at the top of every year, I would identify three people. I wanted to know my name
13:26by the end of the year. And for those three people, I would send them cards. I would send
13:31them books. I would reach out to them. I would do like little things for holidays for them. And my
13:36goal was by the end of the year, I want those three people to know my name. And then the next
13:39year I would pick three new people. And I did that for like five or six years. That's a networking tip.
13:45Yep. And it, and it worked. And I, and then I built real relationships. They weren't like,
13:51Oh, here's my card. It was like real relationships. I remember one time Bevy Smith told me don't send
13:57me anything else. We're good. So, um, so that, that was how I kind of got started. But this year
14:04coming up from the pandemic, I was like, we can't do, we got to do something different. You know,
14:11this has been a year we've been stuck in a house. We all need to feel inspired. I need to do something
14:16way outside my comfort zone. The last year has taught me that life is not sure. I don't know
14:21what's going to happen next year. So we need to go all in. And I came up with this idea. I want to
14:27do a fashion show on the block where I started Harlem's fashion road, which is the 137th street
14:31where I lived. And I want to do the awards on my stoop, which was also inspired by Elaine
14:36Wedderot's wedding. And so, um, and I called the only events company that I could think of that could
14:43pull that off. And they did. And it was one of the most incredible experiences of my life.
14:49Wow. Wow. Incredible. Groovy, I'm curious, what did you do? I mean, as a guy coming up from the
14:57streets, how did you, did, what, did you have any networking things that you did to really break
15:02in? I did everything. I came up in Mount Vernon, New York, like the home of the heavy D's and Albie
15:09Shores and Pete Rock, Denzel Washington. So we, we was already famous growing up. We just had to go put
15:17out fortune to it. Yeah. So I assisted, I worked on everything. I went to every concert. I went
15:25everywhere. I put myself around everything. People who started like, who are you? What do you do?
15:31Like they, I went to all the Jack the Rappers, all the, how can I be down? These are all the early
15:36events that show you and groom you and you network. And so I went to everything. I was just nosy. I helped
15:45everybody. Yeah. Just got to get into, like get in where you fit in. I assisted everybody. I helped
15:52everybody. I carry box. I did everything you can do just so people could see me. I'm like, if they see
15:58me, I'm good. It's only one crown. They're going to remember me. I'm going to be pleasant. I'm going
16:03to be kind. I'm going to be loving, but I have something to bring to the table. So I just kept putting
16:08myself around people and events. And I kept telling them, I'm a stylist. I would like to work
16:15with you. I would call the June Ambrose's. I would call the Sybil Penix. I'll call Carl Canale. I'll just
16:20call everybody. Same thing. I wasn't giving gifts yet, but I was calling, letting them know, how you
16:27doing? My name is Groovy Lou. I would love to work with you. The name is sticking in their head. And then
16:32when they see me, I'm like, I was the one else. So I just kept it going, kept it going. Okay. And then quick
16:37story. One day I was at the Sauce Magazine. Diddy was all big time. So he got on his phone and he
16:43walked out the office and it was a meeting. So I just continue holding the meeting. And I came up
16:49with an idea to put Mary J. Blige on his ice block chair because I had a poster. I remember that. I
16:56had the poster of George Girvin back in the days. Yeah. It was a basketball player. He was sitting on an
17:02ice chair. So I was like, why don't you guys do an ice chair? I just threw it out there. And then
17:09next thing I know, Mary J was on a cover sitting on an ice chair. So I'm like, wow, that's called
17:15true pleasure. So if I can think of something and they can bring, so that opened me up. And then I
17:20just wanted to do more and more and more and more. That was the issue. I'm about to nerd out for two
17:25seconds that they named her the queen of hip hop soul. Karen Amell. She did that story. It was the
17:30first time they credited her as that. That was my idea of the ice chair because I had a poster of a
17:35basketball player. Yeah. Yeah. So that's it. So we don't have a lot more time, but Chris, I want to go
17:41to you and ask you, what advice do you have for any aspiring black fashion creative? Start in the
17:51door now. Start, fail, get up, start again, fail, get up, start again. Sometimes people see the end
18:03of where you are, but they don't realize the journey that you go through. I remember like I used to be on
18:11billboards all over the place and people used to come to me and say, you know, I really want to
18:17do that. I can do that. Like, how do I get there? I'm like, well, you didn't see me taking the bus
18:22into the city from Jersey, trying to go to castings, trying to get, trying to break into the business.
18:30It's, it's, it's a rough road, but start and fail and just keep going because, you know, if it was
18:39easy, it wouldn't be great if you got to that point. So that's my only advice to people. Just start.
18:46Like a lot of people have ideas. I say, write them down. Look at that. Own it. Like, you know,
18:52let it check you every morning because ideas can go in and out of your head. So many ideas we have,
18:58but write it down, make it kinetic, make them, make it move and then make it happen.
19:05Curious. Did you have a mentor as you were breaking into, into fragrances?
19:09Well, before me was Tyson. So, you know, he was about two or three years before me. So we would
19:15have like conversations about the business and, um, you know, for him, you know, he was a trailblazer
19:22in fashion and then me working with him on photo shoots. And then he moved on and did his thing.
19:28And then I, you know, continued working with Ralph. But, you know, even though fashion was my life,
19:35fragrance was always my thing. Yeah. Like when I was young and I didn't have a lot of money,
19:40like I can buy like my obsession for men for like $40 and still feel luxurious. Yeah. And then I figured
19:49out that it's the small things that make you feel good. Fragrance makes you feel good,
19:56you know? And it's not, you know, no, no offense to anyone who was like in the fashion,
20:02but I think perfume is part of fashion. Yeah. You know, it's psychological. It's how you feel.
20:09So I have a whole new respect for how fragrance is made watching Halston. Oh, did you see that?
20:14I saw that. That was so funny because I had a conversation today about that. Yeah. Because
20:19the perfumer was that, did anyone see that? The Halston documentary where he started crying
20:25because the perfumer, that's how I, I literally burst out in tears sometimes over fragrances I create
20:31because I have to get so deep personally that it's, that Halston documentary was incredible. And that is
20:39a kind of window into how perfume is created. Yeah. Groovy. What would be your advice for anyone
20:49trying to get into this business right now? I'll just say, put yourself around a good team.
20:55Some people that's doing like-minded things, you know, that you would like to do and just get up
21:02off the couch and get outside and go hard. You know what I mean? Everybody's the man or woman in
21:07their hood, but just to be that around the world takes a little more energy. So just put yourself
21:13around a good team and just show up where it's popping at.
21:20Brandis, I'm going to end with you because I have a feeling you have a word to give,
21:24but what do you say to those who are really trying to get in that door and they keep telling,
21:29get told no, the emails don't get answered, the DMs don't get answered. What do you say?
21:35That was my life for like 10 years. You know, you have to be so, you have to be doing something for the
21:44right reason. So your why needs to be so strong that you're willing to withstand anything to achieve
21:52your goal. If your why is something that doesn't make you cry, if your why is something that doesn't
21:59give you the strength to push past the no, you might not be doing the right thing. So, but when
22:05your why is so critical to you, you'll, you'll walk through the doors. You'll take the no, you'll take
22:13the rejection. You'll keep going because you understand that it's so much bigger than you.
22:19So I always say, make sure your why is right first, because if your why is right,
22:25you can deal with anything and it's a part of the journey. No one gets yeses all the way through.
22:33It is a part of the journey and then be tunnel focused. Like with social media, sometimes I have to
22:38delete Instagram. Like for weeks, just delete it because it's a distraction for me. So just get,
22:45do whatever you have to do to have tunnel vision for whatever it is you want to accomplish.
22:49All right. Thank you each. I hope y'all was taking notes. All right. I'm gonna be selfish and take a
22:57selfie. Hold on. Y'all smile. I got us all. Okay. Thank you all so much. Thank you.
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