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00:00Thank you guys so much. My name is April DuBery. I will be your host for today's Health Hub,
00:16and we are so excited. We thank Brandy, who was with us earlier, and she did an amazing
00:21conversation and talked about the importance of health. Now, we actually have Ms. Allie
00:27Ariane. She is the Essence Editor, and she is actually going to lead a panel discussion
00:33with two amazing women that we have here, talking about social media and the more mental
00:38health that and how it affects your child or your teen and puts them at risk. So without
00:45further ado, I'm going to let Ms. Ariane take the floor. Thank you. Let's hear a round of
00:50applause for her.
00:57Hi, everyone. Good morning. To be in conversation with y'all, I'm joined by two lovely women who
01:13will be discussing the perils of mental health and how it impacts children and teens. So
01:20today, I have Dr. Lauren Terebrough, as well as Wendy Marie Augustine, and we'll be jumping
01:26right into things. So how are you ladies doing today? I'm doing awesome. Glad to be here. I'm
01:34happy that you are here today as well. So to start these off, we're going to start with a million-dollar
01:40questions. Okay. For each of you's perspective, should children and teens even have access to
01:47social media? If so, what age should that start?
01:53That's a great question. So we know that most children, they come out of the womb these days
02:03knowing how to use a smartphone, knowing how to use a tablet, wanting to be on one. So we
02:10know it's going to happen. It's really just a matter of which age should we start limiting
02:17and how we limit it and how we talk to kids even when they're little about social media use
02:24and tablet use and tablet use and phone use, right? The standard really is for those who
02:31are toddler, young kids, the American Association of Pediatrics, the timeframe is two hours or
02:41less. Two hours or less is the goal, right? We know we live in a world where a lot of times
02:47that's not happening, but if we shoot for the stars, sometimes we'll land on the moon, right?
02:52And so that's the ideal goal. And as you get older, the time can expand and that's, we'll
02:58continue to talk about that, but that's when you want to start to have even more conversation
03:02and more limits and under, and conversation, family conversation of what it means to have
03:08safe and healthy social media use. Yeah. Hi, I think that my daughter's 11 and I run her,
03:19she has an Instagram account, but I run her account. I don't allow her to run it. However,
03:24she does have a TikTok. I think at 11, this is the age where they love to do the fun TikToks
03:29with their friends and they love to dance. And what I do is I prep her, you know, let her
03:35know what she may see and what's not okay and what's bullying is going on, body shaming.
03:44So I kind of prep her and give her a heads up of what she may see and things that teach
03:49her right from wrong. So I think at some point they're going to see it and I think it's up
03:55to us to prepare them for what they're going to see as parents, because it's out there.
04:00I mean, it's a, it's a mental health issue. Um, they can want what they see, teach her
04:05that, um, some of those things that she does see is unrealistic. Um, body, you know, this
04:10may not be her perfect body. You know, there's editing to make a person look a certain way.
04:15Um, you know, she's mentioned to me before, mom, she's really beautiful. I want to look
04:19like that. This was Kylie, uh, Kylie Jenner. I'm like, okay, she doesn't really look like
04:25that. Let me show you a before picture. And she's like, wow, I had no idea she looked like
04:30that. So kind of my idea is like to prep them and prepare them that mental health, um, these
04:34things can call them to think other things that want their bodies to look a certain way.
04:39And it's just unrealistic. So yeah.
04:44And to you, Dr. Tamara, I'm curious, like, what are the things that teens and children
04:50are dealing with today because of social media that maybe they weren't dealing with beforehand?
04:55Like that my generation is millennial, like we were able to go outside and play, but they
05:00had those tablets, those phones in their hands. So what are some of the things that they're
05:03dealing with right now that may be different?
05:05And, and we're also talking in the context of a pandemic too, right? So even if there may
05:11have been a little bit more of a balance before, because we went through a two year period of
05:15time where even going outside was pretty limited, um, then we have even more that we're looking
05:20at a lot of what we're seeing or what I see too. And a lot of my kids is anxiety, right?
05:27Anxiety around, um, meeting other people, learning how to talk to other people, developing friendships
05:35and relationships when you are able to communicate through texts or social media. Um, and that's
05:42your sole method of communication outside of being a face to face in school. For instance,
05:48you don't learn as much how to conflict navigate, right? You have a little bit of a filter.
05:54You are not speaking directly face to face with someone. You can say something that may be a
06:00little bit more mean, right? Or a little bit more insensitive via texts, right? Or in social
06:05media than you might in front of them. So you're that back and forth dialogue begins to change.
06:11And is again, something that parents, caregivers have that conversation with, right? So that you're
06:17building those skills, um, outside, even though you may be communicating, you have to still learn
06:23to develop those skills as well. Um, bullying is at another level when it, when there's social media
06:29youth involved, whereas someone may have been bullied at the local level, just at school.
06:35Now the, um, the audience is wider and it's much wider and the impact is greater because
06:42versus a hundred kids maybe being knowing of an incident, maybe thousands. And if you went viral,
06:49millions of other peers may see what happened or what you're going through. So it changes the impact.
06:55And also the influence, uh, in terms of body image, body image issues, um, an understanding
07:01of what people actually go through, right? Because we have a very scripted, curated image that we
07:08create on social, social media. And so while things may look very happy all the time and that someone
07:13else is having a great time all the time, they have access to this, they have access to that, they look
07:19like this, they have these types of friends that, that may not be reality. Often it's not reality.
07:25But when I see that on my screen and my, and my, and I'm scrolling and that's all I see, I may be
07:32depressed or anxious because that's not my life. What's wrong with me, right? Those are some of the things.
07:40Absolutely. And you know, even as a parent, Wendy, I'm very curious, how have you been able to really
07:47find that balance of one year, you know, your chosen to be involved in social media, all the trends,
07:53everything that's happened on TikTok, but still not having them, you know, be over saturated with the images
07:59and the different things that may come their way online. Well, my daughter, she's very mature for her age.
08:07She's actually turning 11 next week. So I kinda, she has a, like I said, she has an Instagram account
08:14that I run. But I do a lot of, we do a lot of self-love. Like if I teach her to love herself the way she is
08:21and to just always be true to herself. I think a lot of times as parents, sometimes we may not teach our kids that.
08:29And it's very important because I think that if it comes, if they know that they're loved,
08:35they won't get the perception of a lot of times like, oh, I want to be like this person on social media.
08:40We're like, okay, I love myself. I look good the way I am. You know what I mean?
08:44And you know, and I tell my daughter, like I told her this morning, she was getting ready for camp.
08:49I was like, you look gorgeous. And she looks at me, she says, I know.
08:52And so it's, you know, like I don't, I teach her to be confident, but not cocky.
08:57But I want her to always have that, I'm beautiful attitude. And you know, she'll scroll through TikTok.
09:02And a lot of times I get involved with her. We do TikToks together.
09:05We have fun together. I make it more fun than her scrolling, looking for certain things.
09:11And I'm like, she has to show me what she wants to post on TikTok before she posts it.
09:16Like she's not, like I literally go through everything. I monitor daily, you know, what she does.
09:23And she'll come show me, Mom, I just saw this TikTok. You think it's okay?
09:27And I'm like, no, I don't think that's age appropriate. We're not going to post that.
09:31You know what I mean? So I think that just, I think that he is monitoring everything that they do
09:36and just teaching them what's okay and what's not okay as a mom. So, yeah.
09:42And you know, this is for both of y'all because I don't know if there are any parents out there
09:46that may have some different tugs when it comes to one parent that may be into it
09:51and another parent that may have some hesitations. So when it comes to balancing those dynamics,
09:57what do you all suggest, you know, be prompted as far as navigating life?
10:01There's a parent that's into it and a parent that's not.
10:06So I really empower families to do what's best for them, right?
10:10And so that's, I usually, when I'm working with a kid or a child and their parent,
10:16I ask them what mom, mom, dad, caregiver, you are the boss, right?
10:22You get to make the final decision. So begin to think about that and set the tone
10:27for what's right for your family. But also, at the same time, you want your child to have a healthy identity.
10:35You want them to learn how to use social media safely and effectively, right?
10:41And the only ways that we know how to do it is if we use it.
10:45So you may want to cut off all access to social media because we know the dangers of it,
10:51but it's not very practical long term because your child will use it.
10:56You want them to be able to use it under your guidance and with your supervision.
11:01And you want them, you want to be able to teach them developmentally appropriate ways of using social media.
11:08So I, that's how I start the conversation. Yeah.
11:11I agree. I agree with you. It all is based on what you want to do with your family
11:17and how do you want to teach your children. For me, I don't want my daughter to sneak behind my back
11:22because eventually, I mean, she goes to camp, she goes to school, her friends are on TikTok.
11:27So she's going to see it, you know, even when I'm not there.
11:31So I want to teach her ahead of time that, you know, you may see this, but it's not, you know,
11:36it's not a good thing to look at or it's not appropriate.
11:39So I think it's really based on the parent.
11:42But for me, I think that it's unrealistic to block it from their lives because it's such the norm right now.
11:48You know what I mean? And I just prepare.
11:51I think the key is just to prepare them and teach them what's right from wrong, basically.
11:55And just have an open relationship and just kind of put everything out there.
11:59Let them know, like, you're going to see something, but it's not going to be good.
12:03You may feel sad about it, but it's reality.
12:08It's just our reality right now with social media.
12:11So, yeah.
12:12And also, like, parents and caregivers are their kids' greatest teachers, right?
12:16Yes.
12:17And so we lead by example.
12:18Right.
12:19And so, and I'm sure you as a mom, right?
12:22Like, we all use social media in some form.
12:26We're all, we have smartphones.
12:28We use them a lot.
12:29And so being mindful of how our own conception, right?
12:32How often are we on the phone?
12:34Are we utilizing family time, some designated family time, just for family time?
12:39So, no cell phones, no social media use during dinner.
12:43Right.
12:44Are we, while we're driving to school or to camp, that's our time to catch up with each other
12:50and talk with each other and learn from each other one-on-one, right?
12:54Right.
12:55And just knowing that we're setting the example by our own use.
12:59Right.
13:00Absolutely.
13:01So, you know, I know you spoke on some really great boundaries that you, you know, in parameters
13:07that you've set, you know, with your daughter.
13:09And just, I'm curious for the parents or the caregivers out there that may not be, you know,
13:14in front of their children's faces all the time and may not be able to see them, what they're doing
13:20and looking at, you know, when they don't have eyes on them.
13:23So, to those parents, what are some telltale signs that maybe, hey, your teen or your child may be getting into some different, you know,
13:33challenges when it comes to their self-perception and how they, you know, who they are as a person because of social media.
13:40How can you spot those different signs of, like, hey, they may have a very, you know,
13:44becoming a negative relationship with social media.
13:46How do you spot those?
13:48Well, you always also want to monitor just in general signs of depression or anxiety or even addiction, right, to social media.
13:59So, signs of depression, right, in a teen or a young person.
14:04Changes in sleep patterns.
14:06So, sleeping too much or not sleeping at all.
14:09Sad, sadness, more tearfulness.
14:12They're crying.
14:13And young people, though, often depression and anxiety may look like irritability.
14:18So, they are really angry for no reason.
14:21And can tell you, I, like, everything sets me off.
14:25They seem more irritable.
14:27They're not sitting down and engaging with family members and their friends like they used to,
14:32or as the frequency as it's they used to desire.
14:36They're either spending all of their time or most of their time on social media, checking messages,
14:42being worried about, did someone respond to my post?
14:46How many likes did I get?
14:48And if I didn't, nobody likes me.
14:50Nobody thinks I'm relevant or nobody cares about me.
14:53And asking those questions, checking in, and also having some type of monitoring plan
15:01in place.
15:02Whether you're friending your teenager or young person on the platforms that you do allow them to use,
15:08so that you can at least see some of their activity and what's going on.
15:12Asking them to look and see on, like, in their phone to see.
15:17And I'm not talking about spying, because you do want your young person to be able to trust you.
15:22So you're telling them up front, I'm going to be asking for your phone periodically so we can make sure we're safe
15:28and that there's nothing that's, that nobody's trying to harm you, because we have predators.
15:33And that also, that I'm teaching you how to use it correctly.
15:37And so checking in periodically to see.
15:40Because I will say also, a lot of parents may not know that their child has had suicidal ideation
15:47or severe body image issues unless they saw that post or that message that they sent to their friends.
15:54It's not an indication of what type of caregiver you are if your young person doesn't tell you.
16:01We hope to have the best relationships with our kids so that they can come and tell us,
16:06but it's very, very normal for a kid to feel much more comfortable sharing with their friend how they feel
16:11than they do with us, right?
16:13So those type of checking in activities are really helpful.
16:17Yeah, I definitely agree as well.
16:21Checking in is a must with your teen or your children.
16:27I check in all the time and I think a lot of times since it's summer,
16:31it's a lot of downtime with social media.
16:33And I often see my daughter, you know, maybe scrolling a little bit longer.
16:38And I'm like, okay, hey, fall down, let's do something.
16:43Because they're out for the summer, they don't have much to do.
16:46Even after camp, you know, there's just free time.
16:50And so I'm like, put the phone down.
16:52I'll say phone check.
16:53And she's like, oh, mom.
16:55And I'm like, let me go through and see.
16:57You know, I'm scrolling through.
16:58So I definitely think that you have to monitor.
17:00And it's not like I'm sneaking.
17:02Like you said, doctor, let them know.
17:04Like, hey, periodically I'm going to check your phone.
17:06I'm going to look through it.
17:08As a mom, too, I'm also a school social worker.
17:10And so a lot of times I get a lot of students who come in and they,
17:15feel ashamed of their bodies.
17:18And they're like, you know, I just don't, I feel like I don't love myself.
17:21And they're, a lot of times they're suicidal.
17:23And when I contact the parent, you know, that's something that we have to notify.
17:27And it's like, you know, your daughter is experiencing suicidal thoughts.
17:30And she's like, I had no idea.
17:33So you have to pay attention to the signs of your children.
17:36Like you said, they're quiet.
17:37A lot of times they spend a lot of times in their room.
17:40They want to be alone.
17:41They don't want to go outside.
17:42They want to just not be social.
17:45And a lot of those times that, that can mean something.
17:48So kind of talk to your kids or talk to your, your family members if you notice any type of different behavior.
17:53Because that a lot can show signs of a mental depression, anxiety.
17:58All because of social media.
18:00All because they've seen a post of somebody looking really, really cute.
18:03And it's like, oh my God, I want to look like, you know what I mean?
18:06And so I think that just monitoring and just having those conversations with them to let them know
18:11some of these things are just unrealistic.
18:14You know what I mean?
18:15So, yeah.
18:17I definitely love those tips that you all shared.
18:20And for any, you know, caregiver, parent out there who may have seen those signs
18:26and kind of want to know some tips on how to course correct so that they can have that,
18:30their children can have that healthier relationship with social media.
18:34What do you all suggest?
18:37Well, I think, and I recommend all the time, first line level intervention that we've been really nice.
18:44It's been great to have more school social workers, right?
18:48That's very easily accessible for most kids.
18:52The school social worker is very accessible to them.
18:55During the school year, they're going to be probably the fastest they can get their child seen faster
19:03by their school social worker than sometimes even the pediatrician, right?
19:08So, first having that conversation.
19:10If you can have that conversation really one-on-one time where you say, I care about you,
19:18I see that you seem to be more sad or you seem to be worried about your parents more than you used to, right?
19:28Talk to me. Tell me about how you've been feeling.
19:31And it's, but also understanding your child may not feel comfortable sharing that.
19:35And that's totally okay too.
19:37If you continue to have concerns, that's when you want to get a trusted professional, health professional involved.
19:44First line can be pediatrician along with school social worker.
19:48And that person can help guide you as to if that person, your child may need to see a psychiatrist or a licensed clinical social worker
19:57or a licensed professional counselor, a psychologist, somebody where they can see someone for treatment
20:04or can determine the need for treatment.
20:06And sometimes I've had families that have come in and I don't make a diagnosis.
20:12I just say there's some adjustment issue that's going on that we need to work through.
20:16And certainly therapy can be helpful, but this does not seem to be much larger than this particular trigger that we're talking about.
20:25And so you can get some reassurance by seeking some professional help as well.
20:29That doesn't mean that you actually have a disorder or diagnosis, but if you do, you're in the right place already.
20:36Just to piggyback off what you say, doctor, I think that a lot of times just having that middle person, just being a social worker,
20:44a lot of times I get a call from the parents and say, hey, so and so has been acting really strange.
20:50Do you mind if you can talk to her and see what's going on?
20:53And a lot of times they'll open up to me more than they'll open up to their parents because they're afraid.
20:59They may not have a close relationship with a parent.
21:01And so they're afraid to say, you know, I'm feeling sad.
21:05I'm feeling depressed. I think I need to go to the doctor.
21:08So just having the extra person to talk to can really, really play a major difference.
21:13It's summertime and, you know, we're out for the summer.
21:18Some of the kids still text me and say, hey, Miss Wendy, I didn't have a great day today.
21:22You know what I mean?
21:23And I let them know, hey, give me a call. Let's talk about it. What's going on?
21:28And just to bring this up into the air, a lot of times when the for the phone for social media, for example, during school time when the kids come to school, we take their phones away.
21:40Sometimes they hide it. And the reason for that is because if something happens, they record it and that can go viral.
21:49If there's something bad happens to another child and this has happened before and it went viral in this child came to me and say, hey, they posted this video.
21:57I just I just want to just jump off a bridge like they just don't want to be here.
22:02And, you know, that's another thing that that is really, really bad about social media.
22:06What they can see is particularly they might get a video of themselves that goes viral.
22:10And it's like, oh, my God, and they just feel horrible and they just don't know what to do about it.
22:14So just talking to your children and talking to everyone about these type of situations can really, really, really, really, really help.
22:21Yeah, I mean, I know I don't have children yet, but these are very helpful tips that we just got today.
22:27And I'm curious, you know, if there are any questions out there that, you know, you all want to piggyback off of what you all heard today.
22:35We'd love to make time for that right now if there are any questions.
22:52Hi there.
22:53OK, now I don't have to scream.
22:55So I think we think a lot about brain development in children.
23:01And this time with social media has never happened to our children's brains before.
23:07So how would you, from a sort of neurobiological standpoint, think about addiction?
23:15Think about the impact of looking at a screen.
23:20And just like you were saying, it could build anxiety, it could build depression.
23:24But is it affecting the way our children's brains are working?
23:28Easy question.
23:36Sure.
23:37So so we know that brains are plastic and we use different parts of our brains when we're looking at a screen versus when we're hearing something versus where we're talking with someone versus while we're receiving a hug.
23:48So, yes, we don't know all the science behind it, but using a device is going to and using it, especially very, very early, which is what most of our kids are exposed to and do now.
24:01It changes how you how your brain develops.
24:03Right.
24:04Right.
24:05But maybe not necessarily in a bad way, in a very adaptive way.
24:08Right.
24:09Because we as humans, we evolve and we adapt to what's in our world and the best of us adapt in the best ways.
24:17So social media media is not going away.
24:20We have to be able to adaptable and adapt to it.
24:24But again, when you talk about addiction, we we know in terms of the brain chemical process, anything that gives you spikes of the brain chemical release of dopamine is going to be you're going to be more likely to develop an addiction to it.
24:40What are the signs of addiction, perhaps, for instance, in social media use similar to any other addictive substances?
24:48So you're using it for longer times than you intended to.
24:51When you stop trying to use it, you go through maybe a withdrawal.
24:55Right. You get more irritable.
24:56You crave it.
24:58Right.
24:59You're preoccupied with it.
25:01I can't I can't enjoy my time at the Essence Festival because I must check what that post that I just post.
25:09I must see what reaction I got.
25:11I must see the response that I had with it.
25:13And if I can't do that, I become upset.
25:16I get sad.
25:17I get irritable.
25:18Those are some of the signs of of addiction.
25:22What you want to do to mitigate that is things like let's let's start to back off on the use.
25:29First, we got to identify that it is an issue.
25:31First, let's start to back off on the use as parents and caregivers.
25:35We really can help our kid and set limits on the amount of time that they have access to the device.
25:42They shouldn't have it at night.
25:44Right.
25:45When they're sleeping, when they should be sleeping, we can hold on to those things.
25:48You can get it back later and you can help talk to those to them about that.
25:53And there isn't it can be an addiction.
25:57And so if you if it if you're not sure or if you believe that your child is addicted to social media, seek professional help.
26:03Awesome.
26:04Well, I want to thank you both.
26:06Dr. Terrible.
26:08As well as Wendy Augustine.
26:10I truly appreciate y'all's time and insight and let everyone know where they can find you if they want to, you know, follow you on Instagram and all that good stuff.
26:18I am Wendy Maria on Instagram.
26:21I am Juneteenth on Instagram.
26:22I am Juneteenth on Instagram.
26:24Thank you everyone.
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